It's 5.05 and welcome in to a Thursday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993 WBT. I'm Nick Craig. Good morning to you.
Well, a busy day continued in Raleigh on Wednesday as the North Carolina General Assembly officially approved new congressional districts, which are now in effect. The new maps passed both the the House and Senate, the Senate on Tuesday, the House on Wednesday, and they are now in effect across North Carolina. Last week, lawmakers proposed a new map to gain an additional Republican congressional seat in the 2026 midterm elections. Republican lawmakers claim that this is necessary to combat redistricting efforts in Democrat-majority states like California. House Majority Leader in Representative Brendan Jones, the Republican from Columbus County, told his House colleagues that North Carolina will not stand by while this takes place in states across the U.S.
Once again, we're here today. Because California and the radical left launched a full-fledged coordinated attack. not only on North Carolina, but the integrity of democracy itself. And I've got bad news for Gavin Newsom and the radical left. North Carolina will not stand by while they try to undermine the will of our voters and stack the decks in Washington.
Sadly, this isn't new. Just look around the country. In Massachusetts. New Mexico. and Connecticut.
Republicans hold zero congressional seats due to Democrat congressional map gerrymanders. It's the same playbook over and over.
Well, enough is enough. We have been called to fight back, and that's exactly what this body intends to do. The motivation behind this new redistricting plan. It's straightforward. The new congressional map improves Republican political strength in eastern North Carolina.
And we'll bring in an additional Republican seat. to North Carolina's congressional delegation. That's Representative Brendan Jones from Columbus County, echoing similar commentary to that that we heard from Republicans in the United States Senate, or rather the North Carolina Senate, I should say, when this map originally came up to that body earlier this week, Monday and Tuesday. Representative Jones continued his commentary saying that North Carolina will not be bullied by what is going on in other states. The same national organizations that are talking heads who praise the blue state maps will continue attacking ours, not because of the process.
but because of the outcome. But the people of North Carolina didn't elect us to surrender our responsibilities. They elected us to lead.
So to the national left. I'm sorry your favorite government in Sacramento miscalculated. Proposition 50 has backfired. Republican-led states are here to make sure that one man does not predetermine the controls of Congress. North Carolina will not be lectured.
will not be bullied. and will not be sued into submission. We will not let outsiders tell us how to govern. And we will never apologize for doing exactly what the people of this state has elected us to do. We did our job.
transparently lawfully and unapologetically. And if that offends the left, so be it. Because what we're defending here today is not just a map. It's the principle that stops the deck from being stacked. against us.
It's the principle that our delegation in Congress will advocate for the true beliefs of North Carolinians. And it is a fact that we will send one more Republican to Congress from this great state. You can be mad about redistricting all you want to. But you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what got us here. And I think then you'll begin to realize just how bad the left messed up.
Once again, Representative Jones in the North Carolina General Assembly on Wednesday with this final approval and the final House vote of 66 to 48 in favor of the map. It is now in effect in North Carolina. Unlike standard legislation, of which we have covered plenty of here on the show, this map does not require the governor's approval. There's nothing that the governor can do to block or slow down the process for that map. It is something that is simply the responsibility of the North Carolina General Assembly.
Wilson, Wayne, Green, and Lenore counties are moved into District 3 from District 1. Craven, Buford, Pamlico, Carteret, Hyde, and Dare counties are moved from District 3 into District 1. As you can imagine, this is a highly political issue as we have been covering here on the show this week. And Democrat members of the North Carolina General Assembly are not and were not in favor of the map being redrawn and did not vote in favor. Of approving it.
Representative Beth Helfrich from Mecklenburg County gave some of her commentary on what she believes is going on with these maps. As a former English teacher, I pay close attention to words. And to phrases. And one phrase I've heard a lot over the past several days is: answering the call. A sitting President has asked states to rig their voting districts in order to avoid accountability in the midterms, and here we are answering the call.
But enforcing this bill through today, You know whose calls we are refusing to answer? Yours. Yours. Yours. And the tens of thousands of other people across this state.
From each of our districts who have been calling us, emailing us, writing us, submitting public comments, traveling here by bus and by carpool, asking us to simply say, No. No. We will not further rig our voting districts at the request of one person. But answering the call, of course, is not just about picking up the phone. It's about responding to challenge out of a sense of duty.
I thought Our duty. What's to the Constitution? and to the people of North Carolina. And they are overwhelmingly opposed to this bill. That's Representative Beth Helfrich, the Democrat out of Mecklenburg County District 98, which covers the Cornelius and Davidson area near Lake Norman in Mecklenburg County.
Other Democrats, of course, not happy with the map as well. Representative Phil Rubin, the Democrat from Wake County, called the new map an attack on North Carolina during his commentary on the House floor on Wednesday. Today's latest attack by Republicans on self-governance in North Carolina follows the attack on our board of elections. It follows a brazen attempt to steal Supreme Court election. And it all adds up to a sense.
That there are those in our government that think only the right people may ever hold power. And that the rules must be rigged to make sure the people can never disagree with those choices. And now we're here today. The Republican Party holding a vote of no confidence on our self-government in North Carolina to make our already rigged maps. Even worse.
But it's not just the maps themselves. Behold the process. that led to today. Secretive. Dismissive.
Six days long from end to end? and frankly, disrespectful of the people of North Carolina. Dismissive of the people of North Carolina. You have treated them as obstacles. to be managed, even talked down to here in this debate today.
not citizens to be heard, and it would be bad enough if they were simply ignored. And they were ignored. No one looked at those comments. We all know that. No one looked at that.
No one tried to take their feedback into consideration and why even have a public comment period. If you're going to dismiss all of their comments when they're clearly one direction. That's Representative Phil Rubin, the Democrat out of Wake County, again calling those an attack on North Carolina, saying that the General Assembly made a vote of no confidence in voters, presumably referring to those voters in the 1st and 3rd congressional district in the northeast half of the state. Regardless of the Democrat outrage on the House floor yesterday, the protesters in the gallery that had to be removed because they could not stop jeering during the ongoing debate that was taking place, and the public comment that has taken place over the last couple of weeks. Republicans do have a majority in the North Carolina General Assembly, a supermajority in the Senate, a simple majority, actually one vote shy of the supermajority in the North Carolina House.
And with that final 66 to 48 vote on Wednesday afternoon. These new maps are now in effect, and a candidate filing for the 2026 midterm elections that will likely give Republicans an additional congressional representative from North Carolina will begin in early December. As it stands right now, North Carolina's current maps currently elect 10 Republicans and four Democrats. Under this new map, that number would likely be 11 Republicans and three Democrats. As I mentioned, this map cannot be vetoed or stopped by Governor Josh Stein immediately after the vote in the North Carolina House on Wednesday.
The governor released a lengthy video to social media talking about the maps, demanding that the General Assembly get back to work on other pet projects that the governor says are essential for the state moving forward. We'll get into those details coming up here in just a couple of minutes. This is the story of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Granger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers.
All so that he can help students, staff, and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800GRANGER, clickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. It's 520. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-99-3 WBT, a busy week in Raleigh as the North Carolina General Assembly did exactly what they indicated last week, took up redistricting after successful votes in the Senate on Tuesday, the House on Wednesday.
A new congressional map is officially in effect across North Carolina. The counties moving between some counties moving between Districts 1 and 3 to give Republicans an additional advantage in the upcoming midterm elections. Wilson, Wayne, Green, and Lenore counties are moved from District 1 into District 3. Craven, Buford, Pamlico, Carteret, Hyde, and Dare counties are moved from District 3 into District 1. This is a very partisan issue unfolding in the General Assembly, and the governor has no ability to veto or block new maps from being.
Drawn in North Carolina. Governor Democrat Governor Josh Stein released a video on his social media accounts yesterday afternoon after the final approval of these maps. North Carolinians have voted under different congressional maps in five out of the last six elections. And today, the General Assembly is abusing its power. to pass yet another congressional map for the 2026 midterms.
Why? to try to hand President Trump another Republican seat in the House of Representatives. Under North Carolina's Constitution, The governor does not have the power to veto redistricting maps. If I did have that power, I assure you I would veto this map. True leadership.
is knowing when and whether to use your power. Republican legislative leaders are abusing their power to take away yours. They're afraid that they will lose in the midterms and afraid to say no to the president.
So they've turned their backs on you to silence your vote in the 2026 election. It's outrageous. When a candidate or a party loses an election, You're supposed to work like hell to connect better with voters so that you can win the next time. You do not rig the rules of the game to guarantee your victory, the voters be damned. America is a representative democracy where people choose who represents them.
Not the other way around. The Republican General Assembly is damaging this core principle. Understand that in the last election, Slightly more than half of the state voted for a Republican candidate for Congress. Yet instead of having half the seats, The Republicans want to seize 79% of them. That's four.
out of five seats. This is a General Assembly that refuses to pass a budget. North Carolina is one of only two states in the entire country that doesn't have a budget. But we're the only state where both legislative chambers are controlled by the same political party. Teachers, law enforcement, and other public servants are waiting on much-deserved pay increases.
The General Assembly refuses to provide them. Medicaid recipients and providers are feeling the pain of the legislature's forced cuts because they've refused to fully fund Medicaid. And now the General Assembly is failing you by taking away your power to choose who represents you in Congress. It's disgraceful. In this past time, Republican legislators got their priorities straight.
I am ready to sign a budget that values our teachers, helps law enforcement keep us safe. Protects health care access for the most vulnerable, and puts North Carolina on a path of opportunity for every person. And I will never stop fighting for you because I know I work for you, the people of North Carolina. not a political party, not the president. You.
Those are the comments from Democrat Governor Josh Stein as he released that video in the immediate aftermath of lawmakers approving new congressional maps in the General Assembly this week. A couple of comments from the governor that I think are rather interesting, following some similar threads that we heard this week in the General Assembly, whether it was during the public comment period or during debate in both the House and Senate, the various committees that this legislation went through, that North Carolina should have a 50-50 congressional map. It's an interesting question and an interesting point. We'll talk to Dr. Andy Jackson of the John Locke Foundation coming up in a little bit about this notion.
It is important to note that, unlike electing the governor or the president or other statewide elected offices, members of Congress are elected via their district. And those districts, of course, have a variety of things that need to be set up for them to be legal congressional districts. One of the big ones is that they have to have relatively equal population. Yeah. That is why you have district maps.
Typically, in large urban areas, whether you're talking about Mecklenburg, Charlotte, whether you're talking about Raleigh, Wake County, or some of our other larger municipalities, you'll see much smaller congressional districts compared to portions of the eastern or western half of the state where there is far less population. It is all due to the fact that our 14 members of Congress, for the most part, have pretty equal number of constituents and citizens that they represent. The governor also talked about the state not having a full budget. And while that is true, North Carolina, unlike other states, unlike the federal government in Washington, D.C., as we sit here, day 23 of the federal government shutdown, the current last fiscal year budget does remain in effect in North Carolina. A new mini budget was proposed by the General Assembly this week.
It did pass both the House and Senate and does currently sit on Democrat Governor Josh Stein's desk for a signature with the vast majority of that mini budget dealing with additional recovery and relief efforts out in the western half of North Carolina as it relates to Hurricane Helene, giving local businesses as well as small towns and governments some more flexibility and more breathing room as it relates to money that they have even borrowed from the state of North Carolina or short-term loans that they have received to complete the immense amount of construction work that is Of course, been required to get some of those areas in the western half of our state rebuilt and operational. The governor also highlighting that he does not have the authority to go forward and veto or block these maps.
Well, back in the mid-early 1990s, Democrats, who had controlled the North Carolina General Assembly for the better part of 90 years at that point, decided that they were going to introduce the veto. The state of North Carolina did not have the governor, I should say, did not have the ability to veto legislation prior to the 1990s. Democrats, including former Democrat Governor Roy Cooper, who was a senator at the time, introduced the veto, giving the state's governor the ability to do that.
However, they explicitly did not give the governor the opportunity to veto congressional maps or any other maps that come out of the North Carolina General Assembly. That is the reason why Governor Stein does not have the ability to do that. That. With everything that we have watched this week, again, those maps are now in effect. We'll talk and get some additional information with Dr.
Andy Jackson from the John Locke Foundation coming up. Questions about potential litigation against these maps and how this process will continue to play out over the next six weeks or so as we get into candidate filing for maps or for seats that are now affected by these new Republican-controlled congressional maps. We'll get into those details coming up here in just a couple of minutes. It's 5:36. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 11:10-993WBT.
We'll chat with Dr. Andy Jackson from the John Locke Foundation coming up here in just a couple of minutes.
However, we do have some news this morning out of the U.S. Attorney's Office for Western North Carolina. Russ Ferguson has formally indicted DeCarlos Brown Jr. That is the man who was accused of killing Irina Zaruska on the Charlotte light rail back on August the 22nd. A grand jury has come back with charges, count one, violence against a railroad carrier and mass transportation system resulting in death.
It reads as follows: DeCarlos Brown Jr. did knowingly and without lawful authority and permission commit an act, including the use of a dangerous weapon as defined in 18 USC 1992 D2 with the intent to cause death and serious burden. bodily injury to any person. and the act resulted in the death of a person who was on a terminal structure, track and facility used in the operation of or in support of the operation of a railroad carrier and mass transportation vehicle. Under circumstances in which the railroad on-track equipment and mass transportation vehicle was carrying one or more passengers and employees at the time of the offense, and any of the conduct required for this offense was engaged in on or against affecting a mass transportation provider and railroad carrier engaged in interstate and foreign commerce.
In this case, talking about the Charlotte area transportation system. There are some other charges, other counts within this grand jury indictment.
However, it is important to note that this violence against a railroad carrier and mass transportation system resulting in death could let this come forth as something that the federal government seeks the death penalty in this case. We will, of course, and as we have in the months past, we'll have continued coverage of the death of Arena Zaruska and the charges and the legal proceedings that will follow against Carlos Brown Jr. We'll keep you up to date with all the details. Over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com, and right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour. The political topic of the week here in North Carolina politics has been redistricting.
Maps are now said and done of fully moving through the North Carolina House and Senate to get details on where everything stands right now in the latest. Nobody better than Dr. Andy Jackson from the John Locke Foundation. He joins us this morning on the Carolina Journal News Hour. Andy, a busy week in Raleigh.
It looks like in terms of additional work to be done, redistricting is now complete here, at least for North Carolina's congressional districts. Yeah, they they got it done yesterday. And as we expected, it was a pretty quick process. We were only looking at tweaking two districts. They shifted some counties between the second and the third district and essentially kind of split the difference.
Whereas before, the first district was very competitive and the third district was pretty solidly Republican.
Now we have two lean Republican districts.
So unless we have kind of a tidal way of election, we could expect Republicans to win in both of those. Andy, there have been a couple of discussions and points about this. Obviously, this whole discussion is inherently very political. You've got a Republican-led General Assembly that is doing this here in North Carolina. As I think folks can imagine, Democrats not happy with the redraw of this map.
Based on the state law, Andy, and based on the state constitution, is this something that Republicans, because they are in the majority, have the authority to do in Raleigh? Yes, they do.
Now, the North Carolina Constitution says that General Assembly districts, once drawn, cannot be redrawn. Until the next census.
So, unless you have a court order saying, hey, you've got to do it because there was some violation of the state or federal constitutions. That's what you get. But there's no such thing for congressional districts.
So, in theory, the General Assembly could just redraw them after each election. They get a new set of data. Oh, let's tweak the districts a little bit. Maybe we could, you know, shore up an incumbent or let with it this time kind of pick up another district. And so, yeah, we have that process in place here.
And I don't expect that we'll have another round of redistricting after 2026, just because at some point, There's only so much you can squeeze out. And you theoretically could have a 12-2. Map. I mean, that is doable. I've kind of played with maps and I know you can do it, but by doing that, Republicans would really be spreading themselves thin, which is, by the way, what Democrats did.
In their general assembly districts before the 2010 election, and that came back and blew up in their face.
So, as we watch this process as it continues to unfold, the maps are now officially in law here in North Carolina. Candidate filing for these elections, Andy, will open up in the early and middle parts of December.
However, one of the things that you've been writing about over at the John Locke Foundation, we've had some quotes over at CarolinaJournal.com, is that litigation is likely with these maps. Democrats taking an interesting stand in Raleigh on this, saying the state has spent $22 some odd million dollars in litigation costs since 2010. Every time maps are redrawn, do Do you suspect that there will be some litigation with these redraws of the first and third congressional districts?
Well, there will definitely be litigation. I mean, there always is litigation. North Carolina has been kind of a haven for lawyers in order if they want to make a few bucks suing the state. I don't expect that it'll get too far. We had a pretty similar lawsuit in the same part of the state over state Senate districts recently, I mean, just this year.
And that lawsuit got tossed. The judge said that they couldn't prove that these were racial gerrymanders. Political gerrymanders have already been kind of taken off the shelf by both the U.S. and North Carolina Supreme Courts. And since we have, we're kind of backtracking in North Carolina on the racial gerrymandering front, as long as the state isn't trying to actually disenfranchise black voters, but they're just trying to get a political advantage for their side.
If that's the goal, then it's been increasingly difficult for plaintiffs to prove a racial gerrymandering claim and I don't expect they'll be able to succeed here.
Well, let me ask you about this race question. That was a major talking point, not only for Democrat members of the North Carolina House and Senate, but for anybody that listened to the public comment that's taken place this week. Pretty much every individual speaking publicly on this, Andy, called these maps either racist or Senator Ralph Heiss, the individual who drew them in the Senate, him by himself, he is a racist for drawing these maps. Yet we've heard from individuals like Senator Heiss or Brendan Jones over in the House that no racial data was used in drawing these maps. Does that maybe bolster the argument from a legal perspective here for Republicans that they didn't use any of that race-based data in redrawing these two districts?
Yeah, it is. I mean, the judge in that other case on the state senate actually pointed out that they didn't use racial data, and that was a point in the favor of the General Assembly on that. The district went roughly from 41%. Black to, I think, 33%, maybe 34% black.
So there was a decrease in the number of black voters, but proportionately less than the movement on the political front. And if the change in the racial composition is incidental to pursuing a change in the political composition of a district, the courts, and we had a case in South Carolina on this a year or two ago, the courts have upheld that.
So I expect that we're going to see the same thing here. Plaintiffs will ask for a preliminary injunction. They probably won't get it. It kind of depends on which judge they get. And then we're going to go ahead and have this election in 2026, no matter what happens with the regular court case, and then they'll decide on the merits later on.
That preliminary injunction could be interesting here. As I mentioned, Andy, the candidate filing for this, even though the election is in November of next year, if there's multiple candidates running for the same party, there is a primary in early March. That's pretty relatively soon, right around the corner.
So the candidate filing opens soon. Do you see any likelihood that a preliminary injunction gets issued in the next? Got to be what, probably six weeks or so before candidates will be determining what districts they run for. I think it's unlikely. And once again, I'll point out that that lawsuit over the state Senate districts, they sought a preliminary injunction.
They didn't get a preliminary injunction. In order to get a preliminary injunction, you have to, one of the things you have to do is show that you are likely to succeed on the merits.
So you present out this first set of evidence, you know, XYZ.
So we feel pretty strongly about this. And, you know, obviously the defendants will say, no, I don't think they'll prevail. But they didn't get the preliminary injunction for that state Senate lawsuit. And I think we have a very similar set of circumstances here. You know, same part of the state, same basic racial data compositions going on, same pattern on what we call the so-called jingles test to demonstrate whether or not this is something that is worth considering as a racial gerrymander.
And on all of these, they seem to point in the same direction.
So they're probably not going to get that preliminary injunction. And then, you know, the plaintiffs and this, the Democrats. Are going to have to hope they can come up with a new set of arguments, a new set of statistics, a better group of experts when they get to the merit phase of the trial. We will continue the conversation with Dr. Andy Jackson from the John Locke Foundation coming up after this.
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It's 5.51. Good morning again. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993 WBT, continuing our conversation this morning with Dr. Andy Jackson from the John Locke Foundation on redistricting that took place this week in the North Carolina General Assembly. For those that follow the General Assembly closely, they are familiar with the process that legislation goes through, Andy.
It's either introduced in the House or Senate, goes over to the other chamber, and then goes to the governor's desk for signature. These congressional maps are a little bit different, even though there is a bill number associated with them. The governor actually has no play in that at all. What gives on that?
Well, yeah, this is a relic of the 1990s when they gave the governor the veto. The General Assembly at that time was controlled by Democrats, and they had experience, and this was when Jim Hunt, his second time around, the Democrats had experience with a Republican governor.
So they knew that, well, maybe there's going to be a Republican governor sometime. And if we draw maps to benefit us, the governor might veto them. And so they never expected that Republicans would actually take over the General Assembly. And so they made sure that the governor could not veto redistricting legislation. And now this has really come back to kind of bite them because now they're in a situation where you have the Democratic governor who cannot veto redistricting that the Republican legislature has passed.
One of the things that was also a prominent discussion this week was, Andy, we need fair maps. We need equal maps. We have 14 congressional districts in North Carolina. That is a pretty easy number to divide in half: seven Republicans, seven Democrats. Can you walk me through why something like that is not wholly practical here in North Carolina, or maybe it is?
What exactly is a basis for some of these 7-7 claims?
Well, with modern technology and data, you can draw almost anything. I mean, if I really set my mind to it, I could probably draw a 10-4 democratic map. It would take a lot of work, but you could do it.
Now, should I do it? No. Now, there has been work, and this is the result of experts coming out in some of these other lawsuits that we've had in the past. And that data has shown if you use politically neutral criteria, you don't care about the politics involved. You don't consider election results.
You don't consider voter registration. You just consider headcounts. You try to keep counties whole. You try to keep districts reasonably compact. For example, Charlotte's a big enough city, it should have its own congressional district.
Wake County is big enough that it should have a whole congressional district inside of it. As long as you stick to traditional criteria, don't bother with politics or political results. In North Carolina, you normally get either an 8.6 or a 9.5 Republican map. There's some variation there. A 7-7 map is just as much an artificial creation as a 10-4 or an 11-3 map.
That is not the political geography of North Carolina. First of all, North Carolina is basically a 52-48 Republican state. that's worth probably at least one additional Republican district. And the settlement patterns with Democrats tending to be more concentrated in some of these urban enclaves probably is what pushes it up to a nine, five.
So that's kind of the natural number, not really a seven, seven. I'm glad you bring up some of that discussion over urban areas because that is an important part of it. And Andy, if you look at a map of all 100 counties from the 2024 presidential election, you'll see that over 70% of the counties overall voted to Trump over Harris. That is a lot of in part due to the fact that many more rural areas in North Carolina tend to be a little bit stronger Republican strongholds versus where you look at these urban cores, as you mentioned, Charlotte, the Raleigh area over in other parts of the state tend to have these more compact areas of Democrat voters. Kind of makes a lot of sense.
It does.
Now, anyway, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.
Now, right now, the way it works advantages Republicans because the rural areas are by and large Republican, those urban areas are heavily Democratic, and Republicans tend to have an advantage in the suburbs as well. It doesn't always have to be that way. I know up in Canada, for example. The liberals tend to dominate the suburbs.
So, if Democrats can successfully win in suburban areas or these outlying counties like Johnston County that surround Raleigh, for example, or Union County near Charlotte, if they can succeed in appealing to those voters, the political geography could shift. And then you could see nine, five Democratic maps, for example, that are drawn politically neutral. It's a lot of great information and insight this morning. We appreciate the details and the time from Dr. Andy Jackson from the John Locke Foundation.
You can read continued coverage of redistricting over on our website this morning, CarolinaJournal.com. And yes, that continued coverage does and is this morning over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. You can watch and read some of the reaction from lawmakers, Republicans and Democrats. Governor Josh Stein releasing a video on his social media account yesterday saying that Republican leaders in the North Carolina General Assembly Have failed the people of North Carolina, demanding that the legislature start working on other priorities, including passing a budget. We did learn some interesting information yesterday from House Speaker Destin Hall that the House will likely not have any additional votes for the remainder of this calendar year.
We'll keep an eye on all those details over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. That's going to do it for a Thursday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour. WBT News is next, followed by Good Morning BT. We're back with you tomorrow morning, 5 to 6, right here on News Talk 1110 and 99.3 WBT.
