House Rejects Shrimp Trawling Ban

It's 505 and welcome into a Thursday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993 WBT. I'm Nick Craig. Good morning to you.

Well, budget negotiations continue to be at a standstill in the North Carolina General Assembly this morning. And with that, North Carolina senators earlier this week passed House Bill 125, a stopgap measure which aims to move essential funding and policy priorities forward while larger budget negotiations continued stalled. House Bill 125 appropriates over $3.4 billion in the fiscal year 25-26 and more than $1.9 billion in the next fiscal year 26-27. All of this, according to Senate lawmakers, to address pressing funding needs across state government, education, health, and disaster recovery programs. The funding bill is a temporary spending solution amid ongoing budget negotiations between Republican leaders in the House and the Senate.

This is very relevant and important to note as starting next Tuesday, the new fiscal year starts July 1. And while a government shutdown does not ensure without a budget deal in place like at the federal level, it does push off additional appropriations for agencies in the need of more resources. While the Senate's funding bill passed in a vote of 39 to 6, with 13 Democrats in the Senate voting in favor of the bill with all of Republicans, the Republicans. Speaker of the House Destin Hall, the Republican out of Caldwell County, reportedly said that the House will not agree to it. Instead, they will bring forward their own what is being described now as mini budget proposal.

Under the mini budget, education would receive $260 million in this fiscal year, $25-26, as well as another $256 million in the next to account for public school and community college enrollment growth. The bill also allocates more than $9.4 million to sustain DPI's new student information system and other urgent education needs. Health and human services getting close to $770 million in the 25-26 fiscal year, and plenty of other government spending as well that we will go over here in just a few minutes. Big thing to note this morning, budget negotiations seem to be completely stalled. This all ahead of this July 1st deadline for the new fiscal year, and lawmakers planning on a 4th of July recess next week as well.

We'll keep an eye on the details right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour. Where it's now 508, News Talk 1110, 99.3. WBT. An interesting piece of legislation dealing with shrimp trawling has made a lot of attention across the state of North Carolina over the last week or so, even prompting a bunch of individuals in that industry to protest and show up at the General Assembly earlier this week to walk us through some of those details. Katie Zender, CarolinaJournal.com, joins us on the news hour.

Katie, the legislation in question this morning didn't include shrimp trawling until some of the latter parts of last week. What's the latest that you're tracking out of the General Assembly? Hi, good morning, Nick. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, so that's exactly right.

So these two bills, House Bill 442 and 441, the main one that we're focusing on is 442, originally started out as completely different bills.

So originally, House Bill 442 started out as a non-controversial bill that was just set to expand the fishing season for flounder and red snapper here in North Carolina because there's a very limited season for those two fish and there's a lot of recreational and commercial fishermen that want to spend more time catching those fish here in North Carolina. And then House Bill 441 originally started out as a bill to establish the loggerhead turtle as the state saltwater reptile.

So very non-controversial bills is how they started out. They were passed through the House and then sent to the Senate. And then the Senate last week for House Bill 442 added a shrimp trawling ban to House Bill 442, and that's what's caused all this uproar. And so basically what this amendment that was added last week by Senator Craven does is it prohibits shrimp trawling within a half mile of the shoreline. And then House Bill 441 was completely stripped and gutted.

And that bill is now kind of an appeasement for the shrimpers that would be impacted by House Bill 442 and it sets up annual payments for the shrimpers that would be impacted by this bill. Because one of the issues is, you know, the opponents of this bill are arguing that it's going to completely shut down the shrimping industry and that these people are going to be impacted by it.

So House Bill 442 still contains that original content, but it's become so controversial with this shrimp trawling amendment that the original sponsors of the bill have actually removed themselves from the bill. And the same with House Bill 442.

So, both of these bills, none of the original sponsors are on it, and both of these bills currently have no sponsors at all.

Well, and let me ask you about that. This point was brought up during a press conference earlier this week. The Senate is the one that made all of these changes.

Now those pieces of legislation have made their way back to the House. And the question that's been posed, Katie, is without a primary sponsor on a piece of legislation, can you then even have a bill that moves forward? From what I've been able to gather, the answer to that is no. Does that mean that potentially these pieces of legislation are essentially dead right now in the North Carolina House? Yeah, that's exactly right, Nick.

So yeah, at that press conference, you know, they did talk a little bit about what's going to happen with these bills. And if no representatives are going to step up and put their names on this bill, then most likely they will die. And they will probably die anyway, Nick, because there's like almost no support in the House from what I've seen for this bill. This bill has become very controversial. You know, as you mentioned in the intro, Shrimpers, you know, came down and descended upon the General Assembly yesterday to really protest this bill.

And so people are very, very upset about this trawling restriction because basically the opponents of it are saying it's going to basically shut down the industry for various reasons. One of the interesting things in all of this, also again mentioned at that press conference that took place on Tuesday, was that there's supposedly going to be a report out in the next couple of weeks that shows the controversial part of this bill is what is called bycatch when folks are Out and trawling, especially in those more inland waters, there's been some environmental concerns over how much bycatch.

Some reports estimate maybe as many as four pounds worth of bycatch per one pound of shrimp. This report is expected out in the next couple of weeks, Katie. And according to Representative Keith Kidwell, he says the Senate is trying to ram through this legislation before they've even seen the report that, by the way, they commissioned and paid for. Right, that's exactly right, Nick.

So, this report was commissioned back in 2021 or 2022, I believe, and it is expected to come out in the next couple of weeks. And so, there is a lot of speculation that they know, already know what is in that report, and that's why they're trying to kind of push through this legislation. And, you know, so you talked about bycatch, Nick.

So, what bycatch, for the listeners that don't know what that is, is it's basically other species that aren't shrimp that get caught up in the nets. There's a lot of turtles, especially baby turtles. Other species of fish that get caught up in the nets. And so that's one of the reasons for this bill. That's what Senator Craven said when he introduced this amendment: they're really trying to reduce bycatch.

But there's been a lot of pushback on that four to one ratio. And there's a lot of experts and different people that are saying this four to one ratio is not accurate. And it was even said by Representative Pricey Harrison that the person who, you know, originally. made that statement about the four to one um four to one ratio did so under pressure so you know there's a lot of um speculation out there that that four to one ratio isn't even accurate um from different experts and people in the industry is what they're saying but on top of that nick there's been a lot of um there's been a couple different devices representative pricey harrison talked about a couple of different devices that have been implemented in North Carolina to reduce bycatch and I believe she said it was 100% effective for turtles and about 70% effective for other species.

So North Carolina, I don't know if they're the leading state, but they're definitely one of the leading states in reducing bycatch in the shrimping industry.

Well, and you mentioned that with North Carolina as it stands right now. It is really, I think it's the only state left on the East Coast and the Gulf Coast that even allows this inland shrimp trawling. That is what many of the representatives in the Senate that have been pushing this legislation very hard, Katie, their argument is, well, every other state is doing this. North Carolina needs to come on board with this. Obviously, as you reported and was shown in images and videos earlier this week, the shrimping industry across the eastern half of the state does not agree with that sentiment at all that's being pushed out of the North Carolina Senate.

Right, that's exactly right, Nick.

So you're right.

So the supporters of this amendment are saying, you know, North Carolina is the only state in the southeast that, you know, doesn't align with this half-mile radius. And there's a lot of experts and people that are in the industry that are pushing back on that and saying that's not true, including Virginia and South Carolina are neighboring states.

So they're saying that's actually not true either. But whether or not that's true, Nick, a lot of people in the industry are saying, you know, it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges because North Carolina is different from the other states.

So North Carolina's Bottom shores are very different in that they're saying that if they go a half mile out, you know, beyond that half mile radius, the bottoms are too rocky and it's going to tear up their nets. You know, in Virginia and in South Carolina, you have more of a muddy bottom, which isn't going to tear up the nets. They also say that it's not safe for the smaller boats to be beyond that half-mile radius.

So a lot of the people in the industry and the industry leaders are saying, you know, A, they're saying it's not true, but they're saying that even if it was true, that you know there's a reason that North Carolina is different. We'll continue the discussion on this shrimp trawling band and some of the reaction with Katie Zender coming up after this. You're listening to the Carolina Journal News Hour. Hello, it is Ryan, and I was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot games on chumbacasino.com. I looked over the person sitting next to me, and you know what they were doing?

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It's 22 minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour. News Talk 1110-99.3 WBT. Continuing our discussion this morning of an ongoing stallmate in the North Carolina General Assembly between the House and the Senate over an ongoing budget debate between the two chambers. Earlier this week, the North Carolina Senate introduced and made some modifications to House Bill 125, which would have appropriated more than $3.4 billion in the fiscal year that starts July 1.

That's next Tuesday. That's the 25-26 fiscal year, and another $1.9 billion in fiscal year 26-27. What many are describing as a mini or a micro budget being introduced in the North Carolina Senate ahead of this ongoing budget debate. According to Some of the details in this mini budget in health and human services. The bill appropriates more than $769 million in fiscal year 25-26 and more than $738 million in 26-27 for items including Medicaid.

So that is in that budget as it stands right now. Agriculture and Economic Resources receives almost $400 million in the first year, $152 million in the second. The budget would also appropriate more than $150 million for the Justice and Public Safety Biennium budget, about $40 million going to the Division of Emergency Management to continue non-government disaster aid prior to Hurricane Helene. The general government spending also includes $64 million for the first fiscal year, $12.9 million in the following for an immediate budget pressures that will be taking place starting January the first July the 1st rather. Transportation Appropriations total over $65 million over the biennium for operational items that include a continued operation of DMV as well.

So a lot of various pieces of spending in this mini-budget, House Bill 125, not immediately clear.

Some of the rumblings out of the General Assembly indicate that House Republicans will not take up this piece of legislation. They will introduce their own.

However, they are very much running up against the clock this morning. As again, those lawmakers are set to begin at least a two-week July 4th recess starting next week. We will be keeping a very close eye on the General Assembly over just the next couple of days. You can get additional details and coverage over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. And of course, we'll keep you up to date right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour, where it's now 5.25, News Talk 1110-993, WBT.

A piece of legislation coming out of the North Carolina Senate has sparked a lot of outrage across the state of North Carolina. It deals with shrimp trawling in the inland waters across our state. There's been some pretty serious accusations that have been levied. Representative Keith Kidwell at that press conference earlier this week indicated and even called it a slimy backroom deal, Katie, that got us to where we're discussing this morning about this legislation. In your research and putting together the story over at Carolinajournal.com, could you find out any details as to where this came from?

As you noted at the top, this was not part of the legislation until last week. Seemingly a How Mary that came out of nowhere. Any idea where this really started? Yeah, no Nick there I haven't really been able to find a whole lot about that like I've been tracking this bill You know since it was you know kind of started making movement back in early May when it was originally you know the bill to expand the flounder and red snapper season and you know last week and it when it was in the agriculture committee that's when Senator Craven introduced the amendment and there was really no you know talk of this or speculation of this or anything like that that I've been able to hear or find.

So yeah, this kind of came out of left field and really kind of blindsided the House of Representatives and even some of the senators. Senator Bobby Hannock, he's a Republican that represents Curtick County. He has very strongly spoken out in opposition to this bill. Even in the ad committee, he tried to introduce several other amendments. He was shut down.

He also, I believe, on the Senate floor before they passed the bill, he tried to actually divide the bill so that it became two separate bills: the one with the original bill and one with the shrimping amendment, and they shut that down as well.

So, Senator Hannig is one of the people in the Senate that's very strongly in opposition to this bill. And you're right, Representative Keith Kidwell made some very fiery comments about this bill. Listeners can read more of his comments in the article. But one thing he did say that I thought was really interesting: he said, when you find myself on the same side of an issue with Representative Pricey Harrison, she's a Democrat who represents Guilford County, he said, you know, the issue's got to be probably wrong if I'm on the same side as Representative Harrison. There's been a lot of the question and concern, again, revolves around how this came to fruition so seemingly late in the hour when this legislation was, I guess, ready to cross the finish line.

And I guess, Katie, I'll note that with the flounder and red snapper season, the original portions of this bill, the General Assembly was applauded by not only recreational and commercial fishers across the state of North Carolina for working on this. Then, this dirty bomb was essentially put into the bill by the Senate last week, and you had hundreds of individuals as a part of the fishing, both recreational and commercial fishing industry, making their way to Raleigh. Anything from the protests that took place at the General Assembly on Tuesday? Right, so yeah, there were tons of shrimpers out there. Glenn Skinner, who's a commercial fisherman, and he's also, you know, he's kind of a representative of this industry.

And he said, you know, I've never been, you know, more ashamed of the Senate than I was last week.

So, yeah, people are very much not happy about what's going on with this bill. And you're right, Nick, like this started out as a completely different bill. And in a way, it was almost like hijacked kind of by the Senate. Representative Frank Eiler, who was the original sponsor of House Bill 442 to expand the red snapper and flounder season, he said, you know, as much as I wanted a flounder season in North Carolina, he said, I'm urging you to vote no against this bill for at every opportunity you have. And that's why the original sponsors of this bill took their names off the bill because they don't support it anymore.

Even though that original language is still in the bill, they don't support the shrimp amendment. Such a controversial issue here that they can't support the bill. But Glenn Skinner, he's the executive director of the North Carolina Fisheries Association, and he's also a commercial fisherman. He said, We've been fighting this battle for years. There's been multiple lawsuits.

They've tried through the fishery management plan to shut down this process. And he said, I believe the only reason they haven't shut it down is because the data is not there to support it. He said, If you don't have the information to support what you're doing, you try quick and dirty and you don't give people the time to defend their livelihoods. And he pointed out, and he's right, that you know, from the time this amendment was introduced to the time the Senate passed it, it was a two-day period. And so, you know.

As I said before, it kind of came out of left field, and the House of Representatives didn't have time to prepare. The fish, the shrimping industry didn't have time to prepare, so they were essentially really blindsided and didn't really have time to kind of, you know, defend themselves and their livelihoods. And that's the other reason why people are so upset about it. It just kind of came out of nowhere for everyone.

So, again, remind me: where do we stand this morning on all of this? It's all the way through the Senate, it's now in the House, but there's no sponsors left. Have we heard anything or do we have really any idea? Does this move anymore? Is it essentially dead in the water now?

No, no pun intended, due to the fact that there's no sponsors. Where do we stand this morning on it? Right, so the bill currently sits in the rules committee, but because there are no sponsors, you know, unless you know some members of the House step up and put their name on the bill, which I don't see is very likely, Nick, just because, you know, a lot of the representatives don't support this and their constituents don't support it, and it's just become so controversial that I don't see anyone doing that. That's just my kind of take on the issue. But yeah, so more than likely it's dead in the water.

We'll be keeping our eye on it, tracking it, and tracking anything that might be happening with this bill. But yeah, we'll see if they maybe give it another go next session and try two separate bills. And I'm sure Representative Frank Eiler is going to try and expand the Red Snapper and Flounder season again next session. But that's currently where we're at right now. We'll not only keep an eye on that bill, but this study that's supposed to be out in the next couple of weeks.

We'll see if that gives deference to one side or the other as this interesting debate continues in Raleigh. It's a great update this morning. Katie Zender from CarolinaJournal.com joins us on the Carolina Journal News Hour. Step into the world. of power.

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Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour. News Talk 1110-993. WBT, I'm Nick Craig. Good Thursday morning to you. Turning our attention to some national news this morning.

In the light of recent Los Angeles riots, United States Senator Tom Tillis, one of our Republican senators here in North Carolina, has been leading in reintroducing a bill that would make it a federal crime to purposefully obstruct, delay, or affect commerce by blocking a public road or highway. Fellow Republican senators, including Ted Budd, our second senator here in North Carolina, Marsha Blackburn from Tennessee, Tommy Tuberville out of Alabama, and Bill Cassidy out of Louisiana, co-sponsored the bill. It's called the Safe and Open Streets Act and was first introduced in 2023 after a group of protesters blocked the Durham Freeway. That's NC 147. The main artery through Durham and a major connector for the research triangle area.

This happened during rush hour on November the 2nd, 2023. They held banners against Israel's response to the October the 7th massacre by Hamas on Israeli citizens and called for a ceasefire. The 2025 version of the bill is in direct response to the radical tactics of anti-ICE protesters who have intentionally blocked roads and highways across the country, including in Los Angeles, stranding drivers and blocking commerce. It would penalize lawbreakers through fines or up to five years of imprisonment. Senator Tillis said in a press release, quote, the emerging tactic of radical protesters blocking roads and stopping commerce is not only obnoxious to innocent commuters, but is also dangerous and will eventually get people killed.

It needs to be a crime throughout the country. I'm proud to introduce the Safe and Open Streets Act so that radical activists who resort to these reckless and dangerous tactics are held accountable under the full weight of law for endangering public safety. That was followed up by U.S. Senator Ted Budd, who said, quote, protesters who willfully block traffic pose a serious threat to public safety by impacting the flow of emergency vehicles and personnel. They can also significantly inconvenience Americans trying to get to and from work, school, or important personal business.

The First Amendment protects the right to assemble and protest peacefully, but it does not permit such behavior. I'm proud to join Senator Tillis and our colleagues in ensuring American streets are kept clear for everyone. North Carolina has continued to see problems with traffic being shut down on major roadways. Last February, a protest against President Donald Trump's immigration policies affected traffic at the intersection of South Holden Road and Westgate City Boulevard in Greensboro. It also affected the very busy and always popular Interstate 40, with police blocking various off and on ramps in the area.

Last year, pro-Palestinian protesters blocked the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike in Virginia, where Interstate 64 and 95 converge and run through the city. Protesters threw ladders and laid chicken wire across the rocky mountainbound highway lanes to stop rush hour traffic at the city's downtown boulevard exit. This has been a growing trend of some of these more radical protest groups across the United States, blocking not only just regular side streets, but major intersections throughout the country. Lawmakers, not only in the state legislature, but also in Washington, D.C., have discussed this. And as we mentioned, the Safe and Open Streets Act has been reintroduced in the last couple of weeks as part of the 119th Congress.

We'll track that legislation as it continues to make its way forward over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com, and right here on the Carolina Journal NewsHour. In some local news this morning, Republicans.

Now hold a majority on the Robinson County Board of Commissioners for the first time in history. This is after three Board of Commission members, Failene Locklair-Dial, Judy Sampson, and Lance Herden, officially changed their party affiliation from Democrat to Republican, according to a press release from the Robins County Republican Party. The move now gives Republicans a 6-2 majority on the board. Robinson County has trended more Republican in recent years, shifting from what was once a longtime Democrat stronghold to supporting President Donald Trump in the 2016, 2020, and 2024 presidential elections. Commissioner Judy Sampson said that the decision to switch from Democrat to Republican was made to better represent the voters in her district.

She said in a press release, quote, following careful consideration and consultation with my constituents, I have made the decision to change my party affiliation to Republican. In the 2024 and 2020 elections, Robinson County's District 5 gave 70 and 64 percent of the vote to Donald Trump, respectively. Throughout the years, I've listened attentively to the concerns of the people that I represent, and I firmly believe that this change will enable me to more accurately reflect and serve the interests of our constituents, which include faith, family freedom, and fiscal responsibility.

Now, this has been an ongoing change in Robenzig County. Democrat voter registration in that county has seen a sharp decline, falling from 71% to just 41% over the past decade. Since 2015, Republican registration has increased from 12 to 21 percent, while the share of unaffiliated voters has grown from 18 to 37 percent in that same time period. House Representative Jared Lowry, the Republican that does represent Robinson County, flipped House District 47 from Democrat to Republican in 2022, and he said that the Republican Party is offering voters access to the American Dream. In a comment to CarolinaJournal.com, he said, the story of Robinson County's political realignment is a continuation of Democrats leaving working-class people behind.

From their unfair trade policies to bidenomics, they have crushed the American dream for working people, but the Republican Party is standing in the gap to not only protect liberty, but to reinvigorate the American dream for all people. I welcome the commissioners to the Republican Party, and I am excited for the future. Commissioner Failene Locklair-Dial echoed some of the sentiments from her fellow commissioners and said in a press release that she aims to be the best possible representative for her constituents, saying, Quote: After much prayer, consideration, and consultation with my constituents, I have made the decision to change my affiliation to Republican. Districts 4's voting history over the past several election cycles has voted solid Republican, and I want to be the best representative for my constituents as possible. This change does not impact my standing my standards rather in making sound decisions for Robeson County, and I look forward to continuing to serve my district as a county commissioner.

This is a pretty big change, a monumental one. For the first time ever in Robinson County, the Board of Commissioners are now controlled by Republicans, a six to two Republican to Democrat majority on that board. We've got some additional quotes and details this morning on this story. It's over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com, where it's now 5:46. News Talk 11:10, 99.3 WBT.

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Terms and conditions apply. Good morning again. It's 5:51. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour. News Talk 1110-993WBT.

Well, the hot story of the week has been shrimp trawling in the North Carolina General Assembly. I will be the first to admit I did not have that on my bingo card for the General Assembly session this year. As it stands right now, the Senate has pushed forth the ban that would ban shrimp trawling offshore closer than half a mile, a move that critics have said throughout the week would destroy the industry and damage much of the coastal economy across eastern North Carolina. At a press conference earlier this week, Representative Keith Kidwell didn't hold much back describing this legislation. Folks, we don't flip a switch on an industry because if we do it on shrimping, what do we do it on next?

We're going to shut down the dry cleaners. We're going to shut down the gas stations. Are we going to shut down the people who go to work every day making an honest living because some branch of the government finally decides in some slimy backroom deal? That they don't want to do this anymore.

Well by God down east we didn't ask them what they want to do. We want a fish. We want to do what the North Carolina Constitution says. We want to have the fruits of our labors. We're not going to stand and take this.

There's a reason they put me up here last. That's Representative Keith Kidwell at a Tuesday morning press conference. Many other members of the North Carolina House really kind of teeing off on their colleagues in the Senate for this last-minute addition to the legislation. Hundreds of protesters showed up Tuesday in Raleigh to express their anger over the proposed bans. Dozens of them driving their various seafood trucks and other sorts of banners and flags up to the General Assembly on Tuesday.

The bill, the ban did pass the Senate in a 41 to 4 vote late last week. Senate leader Phil Berger, the Republican out of Rockingham County, continues to claim that this is a good bill, saying, It's our belief that continuing to allow trawling in the inland waters is detrimental to the state overall, detrimental to our aquatic fish populations. Again, we're the only state on the East Coast or the Gulf Coast that allows it. This kind of net fishing in inland waters, it's time for us to change that. One of the things that has really sparked even more outrage in all of this is a study that state lawmakers commissioned in 2022 to conduct and run analysis on the status of the state's fisheries and develop policy recommendations, is set to be submitted to the General Assembly in the next couple of weeks.

This has many lawmakers, especially in the House, scratching their head wondering why the North Carolina Senate attempted to ram through this shrimp trawling ban ahead of this report. The report, as we understand it, does not take a regulatory stance on shrimp trawling.

However, it does consider 13 species, including their health and the extent of the habitat that they require to continue to live and reproduce. The reports that we are learning this morning out of the House is that as it stands right now, the legislation is dead in the North Carolina House.

However, it is noted that at any point that bill could be revived. Representative Keith Kidwell saying yesterday, quote, we'll be vigilant. If it comes back and reforms in another bill, we'll call back our shrimpers and fight the fight again. Senator Bobby Hoenig, who was one of the only members in the North Carolina Senate who stood up to defend the shrimping industry, said, We've won the day and will continue to win on this issue. It is something that has never come before the General Assembly.

Now, going back to the last couple of weeks, the original House Bill 442 was actually a pretty important bill. It would have created and expanded the flounder fishing season across the state of North Carolina for up to six weeks over the next four years. North Carolina canceled its flounder season last year due to overfishing, and the Senate revamped that measure to add the trawling ban.

So, not only is the trawling ban seemingly dead this morning, but the flounder season and some of the other regulatory changes as it related to various fishing seasons unfortunately are some of the byproduct of House Bill 442 being killed in the North Carolina House yesterday. A group of individuals still hanging around in the General Assembly, about 100 of them yesterday, cleared and hooted and hollered as the announcement was made as House Republicans emerged from a caucus meeting announcing that they would, in fact, not push this piece of legislation forward. It has been very interesting to watch really this movement kind of materialize over just the last week or so. Again, up until the middle parts of last week, the shrimp trawling ban was not even on anybody's radar or mind. It was slipped into this House bill by the North Carolina Senate last week.

A shotgun vote on that in just a couple of days, and that the outrage has ensued. It is an interesting saga, no question about it. We've got a lot of very interesting detail and responses and analysis over on our website this morning, CarolinaJournal.com. But again, as we are on the air this morning, that legislation does appear to be officially dead in the North Carolina House. That's going to do it for a Thursday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour.

WBT News is next. Followed by Good Morning, BT. We're back with you tomorrow morning, 5-6, right here on News Talk 1110 and 99.3, WBT News.