It's 5.05 and welcome in to a Tuesday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993 WBT. I'm Nick Craig. Good morning to you. There have been a couple of different legal stories that we've been tracking over the last couple of days. The long-awaited audit of the Division of Motor Vehicle here in the state of North Carolina was released Monday by state auditor Dave Bullock.
It is a very lengthy report with some pretty significant recommendations to walk us through some of those details. Teresa Opaca, CarolinaJournal.com, joins us on the news hour. Teresa, DMV has been a pain in a lot of folks' sides across the state for a number of years. State Auditor Dave Bullock says he's got some plans and some solutions to maybe solve some of those problems. You were at the press conference on Monday.
What did you take away from it? Sure, good morning, Nick. Thanks for having me.
So, yeah. you know, uh auditor Bollock likens um The situation with the DMV to Hurricane Helene, Western North Carolina. It's that much of an emergency. That's what his words were at that press conference on Monday. You know, it's things that affect people.
They have to take time off from work, from school. He said it's just unnecessary. He mentioned seeing a report in the news yesterday morning where there were people waiting as early as 4 a.m. at the Avon Ferry. DMV in Raleigh, and he said it's just unacceptable.
This has got to stop. you need to have a new plan in place.
So yeah, the um The audit is 435 pages. They've been working on this for about six months. They've had 20 auditors working on it with other people from different Universities like North NC State, North Carolina State University, the Bryant School of Business and Economics at UNC Greensboro, and a host of others to give those recommendations over a slew of issues that are affecting the DMV. A lot of them we know, obviously, we talked about the lines that people are waiting in or taking time off of work, but there's some other interesting aspects to this audit as well. I guess we should probably start off with which was one of the more significant recommendations is that currently DMV sits under the North Carolina DOT Department of Transportation.
State Auditor Dave Bollock made the recommendation and made his case pretty clearly on Monday that the DMV and DOT should no longer be the same agency and DMV should kind of operate almost completely separately. Teresa, that would be a major change in North Carolina. It would. It definitely would. You know, he said that is the biggest issue, what they found with the audits: the fractured relationship between the DMV and the DOT.
You know, the current structure limits the DMV's strategic input. They also should have a budget autonomy, according to Auditor Bollock, and modernization involvement. They're not having enough involvement for the money that they're taking in. As he said, the DOT needs the DMV, not the other way around, because the DMV currently generates about 30% of the DOT's revenues, but accounts only for about 3% of the expenditures while lacking sufficient operational authority.
So they need to have their own plan. They need to be. basically independent of the DLT. And while we have Secretary of Transportation, Joey Hopkins and the DMV Commissioner, Paul Tyne, agreeing with every other recommendation in this audit, separating the two were the only thing they did disagree on. They said that, that wasn't a thing that was necessary according to them.
Yeah, and again, you look at those numbers, and the state auditor mentioned those when you're pulling in 30% of the revenue for a state agency and you're just seeing a minuscule amount being spent, that is obviously creating some problems. And, you know, Teresa, I saw this commentary online after the press conference: oh, well, all these recommendations are things that we already knew, discussions about staffing shortages, not enough employees. And I thought to myself, if, well, if we already knew all of these things, then why have they been plaguing the state of North Carolina for 10 or 15 or 20 years? It sounds pretty simple, but the problem hasn't gotten any better. It's gotten worse.
It definitely has gotten worse, especially over the last five years. But interesting comment that Auditor Bolick made, he says, What we're seeing is that the government was paying attention to what was going on previously, something would have been done to assist the DMV, and that may have been at the secretary's level where it was stopped, but they didn't go that deep into it. But the fact of the matter is, This mess did not happen overnight. I'm using the word mess.
So he said he's going to continue to be like a dog with a bone on the DMV and hopefully the implementation. But he makes a good point. It's been going on for a number of years. Yes, it's gotten worse over the past five years, but it's been going back even further than that.
So you got to wonder, you know, who truly is at fault for all of this? One of the interesting metrics that the auditor actually brought forward was that it was taking people over an hour from when they actually checked in to getting their business done. But he made the point and emphasized, Teresa, that did not include a three, four, five, six, maybe seven-hour wait in a line outside of the building before you got checked in. That's a substantial amount of time. You've got people taking days off of work, not getting paid to get a real ID or stand outside of the DMV.
That is not sustainable long term, is it? Yeah. I wouldn't say it would be. No, absolutely not. Yeah, like you said, that one hour, 15-minute is from check-in only.
That's up 15.5% since 2019. But as you say, it's not accounting for the time in line. And also, another really striking statistic. He pointed out, for an example, there's one driver's license examiner for the whole county, Harnett County, for 56,000 people. One.
I mean, there were other ones that were low too, but that was a striking figure. How are you going to possibly handle all of that? One driver's license examiner.
So, there are other things he looked at. He says he talked about maybe getting pop-up shops. You see those maybe in the mall, Halloween shops that come out, you know, for the or whatever kind of shop one might be. I'll even say a fireworks tent, but something that would actually help maybe. Spur things along that people are not waiting in line out in the heat, out in the cold when it's in winter, winter time, stuff like that nature.
Maybe even giving what he said is a he would call a fast pass for you would go to the license plate agency to get your license quicker for an additional fee. He's thinking of all different things. One thing he noted too, the kiosks that were instituted a couple of years ago really are not living up to what they were expected to be. They're not getting as many customers as they thought.
So he thought maybe they should be moved to the license plate agency as well. Yeah, those kiosks are interesting. Those were brought out as a pilot a couple of years ago. But from everything I've read online about them, and I know we've had some coverage over at CarolinaJournal.com, Theresa, they were essentially just a web browser of everything that you could already do on the MyDMV website.
So there wasn't really a whole lot of additional and added features on those kiosks.
So it pretty seems like a pretty solid recommendation there from Auditor Bollock. Yeah, and one other thing to note too, you're mentioning about the website. We shouldn't neglect that the outdated technology, which we've heard about before. It's right, the mainframe is COBOL. He made another funny comment.
I can't think of it now, but it's like a DOS system or an old-time system from the 80s, basically, an old mainframe that that's working on. And he said another interesting fact: it's not just DMV that's running on that kind of mainframe, it's many government offices across the state.
So that's an additional problem to worry about as well. But outdated technology, he said that should be. probably take about four to six years to implement. He said it could be faster. He said, but the main goal right now is to hire more examiners.
The the General Assembly appropriated money in their mini budget, which is awaiting Action from Governor Stein, but 40 more positions. He says that's a start, but it's definitely not enough. You know, and on the staffing front, I heard something interesting out of the auditor's mouth that I guess inherently I knew, but I didn't really think about was that these salary positions need to, or the salaries for some of these positions, Teresa, need to meet the demands of the areas. He talked about hiring somebody in Raleigh or Charlotte versus somebody in rural eastern or western North Carolina. The pay scale should be adjusted to make it so that it's a feasible income, depending on the region of the state, which can vary drastically if you're in or out of a major metropolitan area.
Right, right. Because like you say, the cost of living is so different from Raleigh or Charlotte versus maybe a very rural area and maybe the northeastern part of the state or something of that nature.
So yes, that's another a good point that he brought up as well. Let me ask you this, Teresa. We've seen a lot of different audits of a lot of different state agencies. A lot of times, it's unfortunately a rinse and repeat. With this audit from state auditor Dave Bullock, as you noted, all of the recommendations minus DOT and DMV splitting and no longer being the same agency were noted by the leadership of those two entities.
Do we have any idea if there's going to be any movement on any of this stuff? How does this process unfold? The audit is out in public. Everybody can read it and has access to it. What are the next steps here?
Yeah, so right now there are a few points that Auditor Bullock said that the T um Commissioner Tyne and Secretary Hopkins are working on at the moment.
So there are a few things that they are implementing and getting in place. You said they're definitely on board with a lot of suggestions and recommendations as well as Governor Stein.
So hopefully there will be some significant movement in this area versus, as you say, other agencies, maybe like Hurricane Relief Eastern North Carolina.
Well, you know, we see different meetings all the time in the legislature, and nothing really gets done.
So hopefully, they are working on some of these issues. But, like I said, it's not an overnight process. It's not going to be fixed overnight or in one day. But hopefully, they are making some significant and meaningful movement in that direction. This is a lengthy report, over 400 pages.
You've got a really extensive write-up on it, Teresa. Where can folks get those details? Sure, they can head on over to CarolinaJournal.com. Teresa Opeka joins us this morning on the Carolina Journal News Hour. It's 5:23.
Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993 WBT. If you miss any of our program weekday mornings 5 to 6, you can check out our Carolina Journal News Hour podcast. It's available in Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you get your shows. Search for the Carolina Journal News Hour, tap that subscribe or follow button, and take a new program with you each and every weekday morning. It's the Carolina Journal News Hour podcast.
Download and subscribe now. There have been a couple of different legal stories that we've been tracking over the last couple of weeks and months here on the Carolina Journal News Hour. To walk us through some of these details this morning, Mitch Kokai with the John Locke Foundation joins us on the Carolina Journal News Hour. Mitch, over the last few weeks, we've talked about a fair elections lawsuit that's been ongoing in the state of North Carolina. You've got a pretty substantial update on that this morning.
What's the latest that you're tracking there? Yes, you might remember that former state Supreme Court Justice Bob Orr has gone to court with some plaintiffs. He had nine Democratic voters and two Independents who say that North Carolina should have a constitutional right to fair elections. It's not spelled out anywhere in the Constitution, but basically the argument is that everything else that is in the Constitution implies that there should be this right to fair elections. Bob Orr is asking that the state court system turns out to be a very important election.
What is an implied right into an actual right by saying in a court decision that there is this right to fair elections? And then they would use the right to fair elections to throw out some congressional and legislative districts.
Now, Bob Orr lost unanimously to a three-judge Superior Court panel on this topic and has taken the case to the Court of Appeals. And the last time you and I spoke, Orr had asked the state Court of Appeals to hold an oral argument as it moves forward with this case. After we spoke, there was another court filing from the Republican legislative leaders who are defending this case who said, hey, this is improper and it's untimely because the Court of Appeals had already decided not to hold an oral argument. And they said there's no reason to hold an oral argument anyway because everything is fairly clear from what's already been filed in the court briefing.
Well, the latest development is that the Court of Appeals said, no, there's going to be no oral arguments. argument, a three-judge appellate court panel, all three Republicans, coincidentally, are going to consider the case without an oral argument on August 13th. And then presumably at some point afterward, we'll come out with a decision. My suspicion is because there is no oral argument, that could mean that we'll have a fairly quick decision on this. It seems as if the judges have kind of looked at what's been filed, figured they don't need any more information.
They'll be able to come out with a decision based on what they've read.
So we might have some sort of resolution, at least on the appeals court level, to this case sooner rather than later. If Orr loses, once again, at the Appeals Court, he could take it to the state Supreme Court. But depending on how the appeals court rules, the Supreme Court wouldn't necessarily have to take that case, which means that the appeals court ruling could be the final ruling in this case, and it could be resolved in a matter of moments. months rather than perhaps a matter of years if it if it ends up going to the state Supreme Court. And so we'll wait and watch for that middle August court date and continue to track the details there.
Now, changing gears to another legal battle we've been watching, and this is one of many between the newly elected and newly sworn-in governor and Josh Stein and Republican leaders in the General Assembly, Mitch, over various appointments to various commissions, utilities, and boards.
Now we're talking about the North Carolina Utilities Commission. What's the latest going on there? Yeah, this is interesting in that you might remember we spoke about the fact that Governor Josh Stein decided not to appeal a court ruling against him on the appointment of the highway patrol commander. That was one particular lawsuit he filed. He lost at the trial court level and ended up deciding near the deadline not to appeal that ruling.
So what the General Assembly did in forcing Stein to keep the current highway patrol commander stays in place. But there was another case involving another suit from Josh Stein where he sued over three different things together. One was filling judicial vacancies. The General Assembly changed the law to say that if the governor was going to fill a statewide judicial vacancy, meaning the state Supreme Court or the State Court of Appeals, he would have to appoint someone from the same party as the departing justice or judge. Stein won at the trial court level in that case.
Part of the case, and the legislative leaders who were opposing him in this case appealed shortly after the ruling within days. But another piece of that ruling was for legislators and against Stein, and that was on a change to the appointments to the State Utilities Commission. The governor has three appointments. The General Assembly, as part of Senate Bill 382 last year, took one of the governor's appointments away and gave it to the state treasurer. That appointment ends up changing the makeup of the Utilities Commission.
Stein had sued over that. He lost at the trial court level. The appointment change actually Took place. The appointment went from Stein to the treasurer. Brad Breiner appointed Don Vandervaart of the Office of Administrative Hearings, a former state environmental secretary, to be the new member of the Utilities Commission.
So that has already taken place, but the governor has decided to appeal that ruling against him.
So that now will be at the Court of Appeals, and the court will have to wrestle with two different parts of the same ruling: one in favor of Stein on judicial vacancies, one in favor of the legislators of the Utilities Commission. But that will be working its way through the courts, and one suspects that whoever loses at the Court of Appeals level will appeal to the state Supreme Court. And it could end up being both of them. If the trial court ruling is upheld, both sides might want the state Supreme Court to come in and rule in their favor. Yeah, and again, especially when you look at these appointments, we talked earlier this year about the North Carolina State Board of Elections.
Over the last few weeks, there's been some rift between the governor and legislative leaders with a bunch of veto overrides.
So we continue to watch that relationship play out. We'll keep our audience up to date with that. We appreciate the update this morning. Mitch Kokai from the John Locke Foundation joins us on the Carolina Journal News Hour. It's 537.
Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993 WBT. Continuing our coverage this morning of a long-awaited audit of the North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles, state auditor Dave Bollock held a press conference on Monday outlining the more than 435-page audit on DMV. And this is something that state auditor Dave Bollock said not only did he campaign on, but he's brought it to reality. It's no secret I campaigned on the idea of auditing the DMV. But this effort with respect to the State Auditor's Office will not be isolated to just the DMV.
This is an effort to make the State Auditor's Office relevant to everyday North Carolinians. We want to perform audits that matter. This is, however, clearly our first stab at a comprehensive type audit that seeks to inject relevance into the office of the state auditor. The DMV is the most customer-facing government agency in the state. And if this audit and our efforts do nothing else, Folks, if this audit does nothing and falls flat, I will say this.
in a proud way that this office has led the effort in shining a light and putting an emphasis on the fact that our DMV needs reform and that action needs to be taken. DMV affects the economy of North Carolina and the reputation of our state. Talking about some of those big time issues and the need for getting some of these audits, these larger scale audits like that of the DMV out to the public. And one of the biggest issues that State Auditor Dave Bullick highlighted and his auditors highlighted in this 435-page report is that there was a huge lack of metrics as it related to the operation of the DMV. One thing to note as an overall issue that our audit found, and that is a lack of detailed and measurably relevant metrics at the DMV.
That really should be a headline across the state of North Carolina. As we've been, I've been in office now seven months. We started this audit six months ago, so this is a six-month work product. We started the 1st of February with this. Um We're seeing a lack of metrics and measurabilities across the state of North Carolina.
You know, we need measurable data. uh so that managers Can no what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong, and so they can look at it and see exactly what needs to be done to move, to use a sports analogy, the ball down the field. And private business uses metrics and in this day of data analytics and the use of high-speed computers, the state of North Carolina has got to get on board with data analytics and metrics across the state. And when you look at some of the pushes there from state auditor Dave Bollock talking about how private industry, of course, has embraced a lot of ongoing technology. We just talked about it on the show yesterday morning, the AI pilot program that took place in the treasurer's office with OpenAI.
Those are the creators of ChatGPT, attempting to use new forms of technology to continue to move government agencies forward and make things more efficient. Arguably, one of the most frustrating issues with DMV as it stands right now is incredibly long wait times. Not only does it take months in some cases to get an appointment at a DMV office from the mountains to the coast, but in many cases, then you have to wait hours in line to actually get into your appointment. State Auditor Dave Bullock talked on that.
Now I want to note here that this is DMV data based on when individuals actually check in the license office, right? This doesn't include how long you have to wait outside if you're there for a show up. We also found that thirteen point eight percent of customer visits exceeded two point five hours in the year twenty twenty five, which is a seventy nine percent increase statewide. we found that forty seven point five of driver's license office transactions in fiscal year twenty twenty five were customers not visiting their closest office. and that 14% of rural customers traveled outside of their service area for more than an hour.
Over the past five years, customer experience has been measurably declining, a trend closely linked to both increased population and persistent structural and governance challenges. The employee experience has diminished as well. Employees, in our talk with them, cited low salary, burnout, security concerns, lack of support and inadequate training. If you look at salaries, the average salary remains below $50,000 for examiners in both rural and urban areas. Quite frankly, the state should evaluate market-based salaries and an approach to paying these positions because frankly, many positions across the state are in different metropolitan and local areas.
I mean, let's be just honest about it. It costs more to live in Charlotte than it does in rural eastern North Carolina. And we need to look at it from a pay standpoint of what we pay folks to get the job done. One of the biggest recommendations from the state auditor Dave Bollock and his team over at the auditor's office was changing the structure of DMV. It currently sits under the Department of Transportation.
That is the larger umbrella agency that DMV sits under.
However, Dave Bollock noted that in their six-month audit that this kicked off in the month of February, they found that no longer DMV and DOT should be so closely tied to the hip. Take a listen. The biggest issue. that our team identified, and this came not only from stakeholders across state government, but from people that work in the DMV on the front lines, is the relationship between DMV and DOT. This is a governance structure issue that adds too much bureaucratic red tape to the equation.
There are four systematic challenges stemming from the DMV's governance structure as a division of DOT. And let me stop here and say, I am aware and I certainly respect Commissioner Tyne and Secretary Hopkins' disagreement with this recommendation. Actually, if you look at their response, they agree with every single recommendation we make except this one, and I certainly understand and respect that. The current structure limits the strategic input of the DMV. Of the forty-five performance milestones in the DOT strategic plan for twenty twenty three to twenty five, only two of the 45 directly pertain to DMD operations.
They have restricted budgetary autonomy. DMV relies on DOT to submit budget requests, but only thirty one percent of DMV's staffing requests were included in DOT's budget requests. Insufficient performance data. DOT left out DMV customer service satisfaction data in its performance report. Exclusion from key process modernization initiatives.
DMV was excluded from planning and procurement phases of improvement efforts led by the DOT. Again, these are not personality based, and I'm fully aware that Secretary Hopkins is new to the job over the last six months, and Commissioner Tyne is new to the job. But this has been a legacy issue at the DMV between the DMV and the DOT. The governance structures have contributed and will continue to contribute to customer and operational challenges, modernization delays, employee burnout, and negative impacts on North Carolina's economy. DOT needs the DMV, not the other way around.
DMV currently generates thirty percent of DOT's revenues, but accounts for only three percent of the expenditures while lacking sufficient operational authority. DMV collects more than $3.5 billion each year. Which includes $1.3 billion in vehicle taxes. When you go and you get your registration, you pay your tax through the DMV of the county. But it also remits two point two plus billion dollars every year to the DOT, while DMV's total expenditures are roughly two hundred million dollars per year.
You can see Page two hundred sixty seven for a detailed analysis of that in the appendix. I would note that the twenty eight million dollars per year has now been shifted to the State Highway Patrol through license and theft. But the fact remains the relationship isn't working. There have been several different DMV and DOT leadership iterations over the years. Again, I believe that Commissioner Tyne and Secretary Hopkins are really working well together, but we need to organize our DMV and our DOT for whoever takes those positions.
This has, of course, been a long time frustration and struggle for folks across the state of North Carolina. Even if they can get into an appointment, which can take months, it is a slow, lagging process. This is a very lengthy audit out from state auditor Dave Bollick's office. We await additional steps and additional information now that that audit is available. Seeing maybe some of those recommendations being implemented by DOT and DMV, we've got a full write-up this morning.
Teresa Peika's got it over at CarolinaJournal.com. The headline: DMV audit reveals systematic problems recommends separation from NCDOT. We will continue to track this audit as it now is out in the public. And if any of those changes are made or any other information does come to light, we'll bring you those details right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour. For the ones who get it done, the most important part is the one you need now, and the best partner is the one who can deliver.
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It's 5:52. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, News Talk 1110-993WBT. We are continuing our coverage of the 2025 Atlantic hurricane season as August and September are the busiest months. Turning the clocks back, just a couple of months, Tropical Storm Chantal had some major impacts on central North Carolina back last month. Homeowners, renters, and businesses that were affected by that storm are now eligible to apply for low-interest disaster loans through the U.S.
Small Business Administration. The SBA approved an administrative disaster declaration for impacted counties following that storm earlier this year, including the counties include Alamance, Caswell, Chatham, Durham, Granville, Orange, Person, and Wake counties. Democrat Governor Josh Stein said in a press release, This declaration will help families and business owners across central North Carolina who are still reeling from severe flooding caused by Tropical Storm Chantal. I want to thank the Small Business Administration for swiftly approving this request. North Carolinians are resilient, and we will get through this together.
Eligible homeowners and renters may borrow up to $500,000 for repair or reconstruction costs for a primary residence. Loans of up to $100,000 are available to cover expenses related to damaged or destroyed personal property, including clothing, furniture, cars, and appliances. On the business side, eligible businesses and nonprofits may borrow up to $2 million to repair or replace property, including real estate, inventory, and various pieces of equipment. The governor did declare a state of emergency back on July the 16th as that storm unloaded more than 10 inches of rain in counties including Alamance, Orange, Chatham, and more, causing some historic flooding. Rivers swelled to or near record levels.
The Haw River crested at 32.5 feet with the Eno River setting a new crest at 25.63 feet. The storm surpassed multiple hundred-year flood levels in various places across the central part of the state where floodwaters rose above both 1945 and 1996 flood levels. Additionally, the Department of Transportation reported initially after the storm more than 120 road closures, including some major arteries such as Interstate 40 and 85 in Alamance County. And unfortunately, this storm led to the death of five people across North Carolina and more than 80 water rescues being completed in both Chapel Hill and in Durham. Applications for SBA disaster loans may be submitted online at lending.sba.gov.
That's lending.sba.gov. As North Carolina Emergency Management continues to work with local officials to assess some of that damage. Full damage assessments are incomplete this morning, but they do continue as we look at the tropics this morning. A couple areas of interest from the National Hurricane Center out of Miami, Florida. Tropical Storm Dexter continues to weaken as it continues to move away from the continental United States.
That storm is moving to the east this morning. No impact expected on coastal areas of North or South Carolina, or again, anywhere in the continental United States. Two other areas of interest as well. One that is being looked at in a wave off of the African coast that does have a 50% chance of Development over the next seven days. We'll keep an eye on those details right here on the Carolina Journal News Hour and, of course, on our website, CarolinaJournal.com.
A major audit from state auditor Dave Bollick yesterday as the Division of Motor Vehicle DMV continues to struggle big time with long wait lines and times across the state of North Carolina. We continue our coverage of the audit this morning over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. The headline: DMV audit reveals systematic problems recommend separation from NCDOT.
Well that's going to do it for a Tuesday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour. WBT News is next. Followed by Good Morning BT. We're back with you tomorrow morning, 5 to 6, right here on News Talk 1110 and 99.3 WBT.
