Share This Episode
Carolina Journal Radio Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai Logo

Carolina Journal Radio No. 887: Remote learning presents challenge for N.C. schools, families

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
May 18, 2020 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 887: Remote learning presents challenge for N.C. schools, families

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 213 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.

May 18, 2020 8:00 am

The closing of public school buildings across North Carolina has forced students into remote learning for the final months of the school year. But thousands of students have not logged on to participate in a single online education session. Terry Stoops, John Locke Foundation vice president for research and director of education studies, analyzes the impact for educational attainment in N.C. schools. Gov. Roy Cooper’s economic shutdown has prompted a number of complaints from business owners, workers, and other government officials. Gaston County Commissioner Tracy Philbeck has offered vocal opposition to the governor’s statewide shutdown orders. Philbeck shared his concerns during a recent virtual town hall sponsored by the John Locke Foundation. It’s unclear just how hard the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent economic shutdown will hit the N.C. state budget. State Rep. Jason Saine, R-Lincoln, a top House budget writer, offered a recent assessment for colleagues. Saine explains why decisions about the state budget are likely to be delayed until later in the summer. Some educators complain that a focus on preparing for the SAT and ACT can get in the way of important learning in the high school years. An alternative called the Classic Learning Test is designed to address those concerns. Alec Bianco, the test’s marketing director, distinguishes CLT from its better-known competitors. The Trump administration has been tinkering with Obama-era federal fuel-efficiency standards for vehicles. The John Locke Foundation has joined a group of free-market think tanks asking Trump’s team to take a more reasonable approach to those standards. Donald van der Vaart, JLF senior fellow, explains the little-known consequences of these federal rules.

Carolina Journal Radio
Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state governor Roy Cooper's economic shutdown orders of generated criticism even from other elected officials to hear from one County Commissioner. He complains that his community ought to be able to reopen now. It's not clear yet how badly the COBIT 19 pandemic will hurt the state treasury. Top statehouse budget writer offer some ideas. Some educators worry that the push to prepare students for the SAT and ACT can undermine learning will discuss a new standardized test. It's designed to address those concerns and you learn why the John Locke foundation is taking part in the debate over federal fuel efficiency standards for vehicles.

Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joined us and she has the Carolina Journal headline. It has been anything but a traditional school year, thanks to the coronavirus which sent hundreds of thousands of North Carolina school kids online for their education. But as the traditional end of the school year nears a troubling statistic is emerging. Thousands of these kids haven't even logged on for online school.

Dr. Terry stoops is vice president for research.

Also, the director of education studies for the John Locke foundation. He's been taking a look at this alarming data and joins us now at Terry. Welcome back to the program that you really caught my eye. There was a story published by the Winston-Salem Journal a few days ago that revealed that about 10% of the kids in Winston-Salem, Forsyth never made the transition to virtual school what you know what we know is that that's probably a fairly typical cross school districts is that there are significant portion of students that aren't logging in to their learning management system to get assignments to complete assignments communicate with their teacher and that is just those that haven't logged in at all. While one the trends that were seeing is that fewer students are participating in their online education. So those who may have started with the online learning with their teacher slowly dropping out doing less work communicating less with their teacher. That's a lot harder to quantify because of differences and sometimes districts not even keeping good track of who is participating in these courses who is logging in whose participating and and how many students continue to pursue their education online. Wouldn't this be the equivalent in the traditional context of kids either just never showing up to the classroom or being absent a lot. That's absolutely right, and of course we have laws that dictate that students have to be in the classroom and we have a compulsory attendance laws limitation so the number of missed days unless there's unless there's an illness or some extenuating circumstance. So we still have those laws on the books but unfortunately those have sort of been set aside as this online learning continues.

Really what's most disturbing about me is the number of districts really are keeping track of the number of students that are participating in nonparticipating. We were fortunate that the Winston-Salem, Forsyth County schools gave us some sense of the number of students that are logging in not logging in, but I feel that there are many school districts that aren't even doing that and so will have no idea. By the time the students return to the traditional classroom setting. Just how much they participated or didn't participate during the school closures related to the coronavirus do we have any idea even supposition as to why the kids wouldn't be participating in.

My parents would allow that welder's gonna be a variety of reasons why that happens that there are students that have technological barriers.

They may not have a computer or access to broadband or Wi-Fi that makes it very difficult for them to do online assignments.

Not a lot of districts have responded to that by giving students computers on a temporary basis providing Wi-Fi hotspots at various locations have even heard of that on school buses on school buses absolutely and and the private sectors really stepped up by providing free Wi-Fi to to students that can afford it. So there there's been a lot of of that going on in and we have students.

Of course that still won't have access to Wi-Fi, even though those hotspots are available so that that's just a technological barrier despite districts trying their best to make sure students get that there might be a variety of other reasons why there is students not participating everything from state policies to their home. In some ways say I think maybe you can attribute it at least a little bit of this in the beginning to just human nature.

Okay something really new and strange and we don't have to quote go to school so it's a vacation for a few days but the ongoing absence of these kids is really alarming.

I know that I've ever read stories about some school districts really paying close attention to those kids who may have the technological barrier and actually providing hard copies of material to the parents and the students but based on these statistics, it seems like even that isn't enough yet.

I don't think it is that there really is an attempt to try to make sure that regardless of the barriers that students encounter their able to have the work that they need and were assuming that this is his new work in one. The interesting things that we've learned from survey the DPI produced is that around half the districts were producing work for students that was new to them.

Work the with that they would progress on for the remainder of the semester that they were meant to have in the and in person classroom and the other half are basically looking at review assignments, so, so even the nature of the work given to students has has been very very different. You know that there has been a lot of talk about what what we can talk about the number of students that are participating. There really hasn't been a focus on what students are actually learning and what kind of assignments teachers direction giving to them.

So what does that mean going forward are we looking at test summer school.

Are we looking at a lost year. What could be on the horizon will not see the million dollar question in effect in North Carolina to $70 million question because the Gen. assembly set aside $70 million for a summer session for students to be able to get them to catch up. I have my reservations about spending so much on the summer session and that's only going to target certain groups. Given that this is a statewide problem is can really require a statewide solution and I really feel like the best way to solve the problem is to make sure that we invest as many resources as we can into the upcoming school year. But that aside, really. The first task that will need to do is a status to assess what students know what they don't know we really can attack a problem until we really understand what it is and so my hope is that any school district that starts to think about of remediating students finding out what needs they have will first determine through testing another man, or other means to find out exactly where they are academically and then to fill the gaps that they've identified through the steps. Does that mean something as and I use this word in quote simple as first day back to the bricks and mortar classroom.

The kids get a test just to assess that should absolutely be the strategy and the really the the way that the state should go about it is to provide the state tests that were designed to be given this spring to students to provide those to teachers in the fall so they can administer those tests. They their already online. They can get the results back quickly to be able to have some sort of diagnostic measure of where students are so that that absolutely should be the first. First, a strategy that the schools deployed to be able to make sure that they are providing the kind of remedial education, the students need one thing I'm very curious to find out about once we make our way through this and the kids are back to a traditional setting is how many kids and parents have suddenly discovered an option for receiving education for learning that they may have never considered before, but which may actually work better for them and it leads to this question of every child is different. Every need is different, so are you anticipating any of that occurring. I think so.

The real barrier to that is that we have Virtual Charter Schools and Our Traditional Charter Schools That Might Make It Very Difficult for Parents That Want Some Sort of Alternative for Their Child to Be Able to Get That Alternative You Know What One of the Concerns.

A Lot Of Parents Are Going to Have Is the Fact That Their Child Is Going to Be Exposed to Other Students and Adults If They Go Back to Traditional Classroom Setting. We Need to Give Them the Opportunity to Be Able to Pursue an Online Education If They Feel That's What's Best for Their Education.

But Right Now the State Is Not Equipped to Give Them That Option and I Think the General Assembly Needs to Act Quickly This Summer to Be Able to Do That. Dr. Terry Stoops. He Is the Director of Education Studies, the Vice President for Research for the John Locke Foundation Terry Think You Can Say with As Much More Carolina Journal Radio to Come in Just a Moment Tired of Fake Names Tired of Reporters with Political Axes to Grind. What You Need to Be Reading Carolina Journal Honest, Uncompromising, Old-School Journalism, You Expect and You Need Even Better, the Monthly Carolina Journal Is Free to Subscribers Sign up at Carolina. You'll Receive Carolina Journal Newspaper in Your Mailbox Each Month. Investigations into Government Spending Revelations about Boondoggles Who the Powerful Leaders Are and What They're Doing in Your Name and with Your Money. We Shine the Light on It All with the Stories and Angles.

Other Outlets Barely Cover but There's a Bonus Print Newspapers Published Monthly by Our Daily News Site Gives You the Latest News Each and Every Day Lot onto Carolina Once, Twice, Even Three Times A Day.

You Won't Be Disappointed. It's Fresh News If You'd like a Heads up on the Daily News Sign up for Our Daily Email Do That Carolina Carolina Journal, Rigorous, Unrelenting, Old-School Journalism, We Hold Government Accountable for You Will Go Back to Carolina Journal Radio Why Michiko Got Gov. Roy Cooper Has Faced Pushback Because of His Executive Orders Shutting down Much of the North Carolina Economy. Among Those Raising Concerns Gaston County Commissioner Tracy Phil Back. He Took Part in a Recent Virtual Town Hall Sponsored by the John Locke Foundation. I Think the Big Government to a Plot Once Fits All Model across the State. When We Went into the Shutdown Orders We Were Told the Region That We Needed to Do Things That We Did Was to Help Make Sure Hospitals Capacity Was Stable. There Is Not One Hospital in the State of North Carolina That Is Heading Any Issue with Capacity, Whether It's in Your Major Metropolitan Areas or Global Air.

Not Only That, If You Look at the Numbers Data in Gaston County and throughout the State, Charlotte, Guilford and Weight Are Basically Running the Numbers and the Governors Decided to Lock down My Niece Alex.

It Makes No Economic Sense Is Has No Effect on Coded 19 Crushing Her, Me There's Huge Ill Side Effects so That Hospitals Are Not Able to Do a Schedule Surgeries Are Not Able to Do Selected or Elective Surgeries.

We Are Having Huge Issues When It Comes to Mental Health and the Economy Is Crossing Us to like Explain the Gaston County Commissioners Are Basing Their Decisions on More Than Just Political Preferences. Use Is Not Just Something We Think Is Actually Backed up by the Data If It Air Our Hospital Care about Hill Is Not Even near Capacity Their Laying off Employees. There Have Been Furloughs. They're Not Going to Schedule Surgeries. They're Not Going Selected or Elective Surgeries When Their Health Department Looking at Our Data, We Have Currently 23 Active Cases so Out Of Her Hundred and 3007 Have Already Recovered. We Have 23 Active Cases.

We Have Three Individuals in the Hospital so the Data Does Not Show or Continuing to Lock down Gaston County Is That There's This Argument That We Should Wait on the Gods of Washington and Raleigh in This Bureaucratic Machine to Tell Us What to Do.

Gaston County Was on the Front Lines of Limiting Gatherings Looking at Social Thing and That Saved Our Citizens.

State When You Look at Mecklenburg. There Were A Lot Slower. The State Was A Lot. Basically, the Governor Has Found His Nose at Local Control. I Find It Ironic These Democratic Governors Are Screaming to Washington That Is Our Job. Let Us Handle It at the Same Time They're Not Willing to Allow Local Leaders to Deal with These Situations. We Have All the Same Emergency Powers to Deal with These Situations and They Literally Just Decide in My Opinion, to Destroy Our Local Economy.

There Is Not One Hospital Again in the State of North Carolina That Is Having a Capacity Issue. If You Look at the Data in Gaston County. It Does Not Support a Stay at Home.

In Fact, April 29, Our Order Is Going to Follow in Phase 1 of White House Guidance Were Gonna Open up Every Single Business As Long As They Practiced Social Distancing Proper Sanitation and Hygiene with Some Limits on Gatherings. Of Course, Sir. Big Events, Things like That Were Not Going to Be We Can Get People Back to Work. That's Tracy Phil Back Gaston County Commissioner, He Took Part in a Recent John Locke Foundation Virtual Town Hall. Philbrick Says the Gaston County Plan Doesn't Depend on Raleigh to Do Her Own Plan. If We Would've Waited on the State. We Had Higher Numbers We Could Lead We Have the Data We Have the Capacity It Makes No Sense. Of Course, Legally, the Governor's Order Will Trial Our Order, but the Message Is Where Open to Do Business and If You Can't Feed Your Family so You Can Get to Work in and You Can't Get the Surgery That You Need Is Going to Have To Only. There Is No Data He Can Get Gaston County to Support OSHA Take It One Step Further.

He Is Literally Making Every Exception That You Can Dream up for the NASCAR and All These Other Businesses NASCAR Fan, Don't Get Me Wrong, but How Do You Tell Mom and Pop Shop That Will Close You down Every One of These Other Areas Were Going Keep It's Not Equal Protection at All Is Picking Winners and Losers in This Is What Big Government Does It Support Special Interest or the Big Dollar Individuals with Average Americans. Average North Carolinians Average Citizens in Gaston County Work Their Lifetime to Create Their Businesses.

The Governor Has Owned His Nose Absolutely Has Created an Environment Where They May Be No Point Philbrick Looked Closely at the Details of the Gov.'s Executive Orders Shutting down Much of the State Economy. If You Look at His or When He Declares Businesses As Essential and Nonessential. Not Only Does He Declare That He Goes on the Say You Can Go Ahead and Continue Operating Your Nonessential Business As Long As You Practice Social Distance in His Order He Doesn't Really Shutdown Anything He Says Essential Businesses Can Remain Open Open Nonessential Businesses Should Be Closed on the Last They Can Continue to Practice Social Distancing Them What He's Done and Go Look It up.

Please Allow the Department of Revenue, Almost Everyone Who Is Filing to See If There Essential or Nonessential Are Allowed to Openly Begin Example We Have a Bakeshop in Gaston County That Ask If They Were Essential or Nonessential Department of Revenue Sent Them a Letter Incident Based off of the Gov.'s Order You to Eat Nonessential. However, If You Can Practice Social Distancing Insert Requirements You Are Allowed to Remain Open Is a Huge Double Standard in One of the Things It Really Bothers Me and I Do Believe It's Unconstitutional and I Think a Federal Judge in Kentucky Is Already Decided At Least One Piece of This Is How Can You Have One Standard Church and Another Standard for Lowe's and Home Depot and Walmart Is I Think It's Doublespeak. I Think It's Unconstitutional A Lot Of Different Manners and I Do Believe Book Calls the Counties Have Their Own Health Departments, and They Have Their Own Emergency Powers They Can Handle This Situation Better Than Big Government That's Tracy Phil Back Gaston County Commissioner. He's Concerned about Gov. Roy Cooper's Executive Orders Shutting down Much of the North Carolina Economy. The Lectured Those Concerns during a Virtual Town Hall Sponsored by the John Locke Foundation Will Return with More Carolina Journal Radio in a Moment. If You Have Freedom We Got Great News to Share with You Now. You Can Find the Latest News, Views, and Research from Conservative Groups across North Carolina All in One Place North Carolina

It's One-Stop Shopping. North Carolina's Freedom Movement and North Carolina You'll Find Links to John Locke Foundation Blogs on the Days News Carolina Reporting and Quick Takes Carolina Journal Radio Interviews TV Interviews Featuring CJ Reporters and Let Foundation Analysts, Opinion Pieces and Reports on Higher Education from the James T Martin Center for Academic Renewal, Commentary and Polling Data from the Scimitar's Institute and News and Views from the North Carolina Family Policy Council.

That's Right, All in One Place North Carolina That's North Carolina Spelled out North Carolina

Try It Today. North Carolina Is Changing Not Just Day-To-Day but Outward to Our Minute to Minute and 2nd to 2nd, How Can You Keep up with the Changes, Especially the Ones That Affect You, Your Family, Your Home, Your Job, Make the John Locke Foundation and Carolina Journal Part of Your Social Media Diet on Facebook like the John Locke Foundation like Carolina Journal. Follow Us on Twitter at John Locke in the Sea and at Carolina.

Journal News, Insights and Analysis You'll Find Nowhere Else. Thanks to the Experts at the John Locke Foundation and Thanks to the First-Class Investigative Reporting of Carolina Journal. Don't Wait for the Morning Newspaper. Don't Wait for the Evening News. It's Happening Now It's Happening Here the John Locke Foundation and Carolina Journal Have You Covered with up to the Second Information like Us on Facebook the John Locke Foundation and Carolina Journal. Follow Us on Twitter at John Locke NC and at Carolina Journal.

Who Knew You Could Shop and Invest in Freedom at the Same Time It Is True Online Shopping Is Now a Great Way to Support the John Locke Foundation Just Shop Using the Amazon Smile Program and Designate the John Mott Foundation to Receive a Portion of Your Purchase Amount That's Right You Shop Amazon Donates Money to Pass the John Locke Foundation. Here's How Long. Time to Amazon smile is the same Amazon you know same products same prices.

But here's what's better is on donates 0.5% of the price of your eligible Amazon smile purchases to the John Locke foundation to try it.

Be sure to designate us as the nonprofit you want to support.

It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation.

Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I Michiko got nobody knows yet how big a hit the North Carolina state budget will take from the COBIT 19 coronavirus pandemic. It's likely to be huge achieved statehouse budget writer recently offered his colleague some thoughts about the issue.

Republican Jason same represents Lincoln County will you will have great plan and I'll probably be around the staff were probably this is all well in terms of time on their global revenue all all players were certain it will have a lot of work normal election-year lawmakers would gather in late spring, they would try to finish budget work by the end of June. Same predicts a delay in that budget timeline will that's Republican state representative Jason seen a top budget writer in the statehouse. He was speaking recently to colleagues in an online committee literature with more Carolina Journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina Journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet.

And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina Journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with that's listen to Carolina Journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina Journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy high-stakes testing in public schools is an impact on the school curriculum.

Since we know this is true. Is there way to ensure those tests point educators and students to valuable texts.

They should be reading. That's one of the issues our next guest discussed during a recent presentation to the John lot foundations Shaftesbury society Alec Bianco is director of marketing of the classic learning test. Thanks for joining us think you really like beer. So we know about things like the ACT and the SAT probably less about the CLT tell us of what is the classic learning test yeah absolutely so ACT and SAT have been around for a very long time over 100 years and they're pretty much not well known. Everybody knows about them.

I mean it's just especially remember your high school days member, take the test right everybody has to do it and really CLT is trying to step in and to provide more options right so is 18 ACT of kind of been the standard for a very long time and CLT's is trying to come up one in some ways, to be the new standard for standardized testing, but also ultimately just to give students. Another option yes, so CLT tells little bit about how it's different from ACT and SAT absolutely a great question, so I would say I would come to characterize in two different ways to the CLT is different ones are practically and then also philosophically mission only. Why were different. Start of the former so CLT is different for messaging easy one. We are going to put the green option in the sense that were up to times with the technology that we have for exiting a city have had access to. You know, same day test results online testing for a long time and have chosen not to do that CLT tries to make this a better experience test taking experience for students by being online by delivering the same day test results by being a shorter exam were only about two hours so we also offer you accommodations for students and that only brings up to four hours rather than essentially an entire day of testing we know that students are essentially potatoes. After a couple of hours of testing so we try to keep it shorter but still a rigorous exam on the other hand, you have kind of mission only why we hear why another test with the question all the time. Why on earth would I want another test rhyme colleges asked the students, teachers, Cetera and and the reason really is again options set SAT and ACT have served primarily one audience for the last 50 years, which is traditional, publicly educated students. But as I'm sure you know that those are the only kinds of students out there. There are movements growing like the homeschool movement which is anywhere between 3 to 5% of the population they're not using a common core standards. There are not a part of the traditional public education system at all purposely so. This also does include private schools to some extent, charter schools, online schools is a whole myriad of students out there that are being underserved by the SAT and ACT and so the CLT is another option for them. That is a better fit for their curriculum that they're using and the style of education that they choose.

We are chatting with Alec Bianco. He is director of marketing for the classic learning test or CLT in terms of the types of things.

The students will face what are some differences made by most of us have gone through either the ACT or SAT and no these math questions your reading English and English essays and then tried to answer questions about them is CLT similar in that respect, or does it cover other things.

It's very similar.

We actually have a great respect for what the SAT used to do. Probably 23 years ago. As far as an exam. It was more of a blend of aptitude and achievement, meaning it tested critical thinking and logic skills, reasoning skills, as well as your basic math skills English grammar stuff like that so the CLT is trying to bring that back that the kind of holistic education mine more of a traditional liberal arts education in the sense that it's testing both aptitude and achievement was going to look similar to the SAT multiple-choice questions, you know much grammar verbal reasoning mathematics questions which might see a couple things you never heard of there before like analogy questions which they used to be on the.

The other exams but are now on on the CLT to bring that back. One of the things that I understand this is part of the reason why it's called classic is that there is a focus on classic texts were getting people to read that the types of things you would want them to read and not.

Perhaps some of things that SAT and ACT have been moving people toward. That's actually right yes so we are a big believer in old stuff we like old stuff I don't.

Good stuff. Good. So since you have exactly and we don't think that's very controversial. I think that that is pretty much what children want to read. Students want to read good books. Good literature good philosophy. They in history. They want to be that stuff. We also know that students should be trained up to be citizens of where they are here in the United States. They need to be fluent in the Constitution in the decoration of independence in the founding fathers so we want to put that kind of stuff back on the exam is the good stuff is the stuff we should be reading a lot people already are reading and it's not reflected in our standardized tests. Now some of folks listening to us or to say, well, sounds good, but what about these colleges or people that they took to have this information. They know the ACT. The SAT, CLT may not be as familiar to them.

Is this the type of thing that some colleges and universities are starting to look to absolutely and that they should bring it up so the college in college is interesting. I'll let you in a little secret about higher education. Parents are in charge, not the admissions counselors right it's not the same thing as it used to be you know 5000 years ago where everybody was expected to go to college and you had to go to college in order to get a great career or to get a great education, people are finding alternatives and so colleges more than ever are struggling to fill seats and get students in their college.

So at a practical level. Of course their axis considering CLT because another option for them to find new students and not just new stews but bright student. Students that are have great educations and who are looking to find a great college education that leads to another question and that is some people may say what's the test sounds good. Do you have good information about how well this score on the CLT translates into just how much the students have achieved and there aptitude for greater success in college. Yeah, absolutely. So of course you know where young company and and data is constantly being helped found and studied, but so far we've had a very rigorous's event. The top psych magicians in the cut in the country work on the CLT and study the students and and findings and what we found is that in many ways it's a more rigorous exam and in a better test for the students academic potential in college.

If someone hears this and says all this is kind of interesting how would I find out more, and whether this is something that would be a good thing for my student or for for my school.

How would they find out more yet so what I would do is go to our website CLT CLT and you find most information you need there. We also have, you can call in or send us an at any time to find out more information. We offer three exams from seventh grade to 12th grade. So we think pretty much can work with your high school at any level, so that once again the CLT that is Alec Bianco. He is director of marketing for the CLT which is the classic learning test. Thanks so much for joining us think you love more on Carolina journal radio in just a moment real influence.

You either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complaint or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more.

We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse envy of every other state. Our research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn.

Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio Donna Martinez what is known as a caf.

The federal government's corporate average fuel economy program and while it sounds pretty good saving energy, polluting less with your vehicle. The facts and costs surrounding caf standards are not well known. That's why the John Locke foundation has joined a coalition of think tanks.

In a letter to Pres. Trump about this very issue.

Don Vandermark signed the letter on behalf of the John lock foundation. He is a senior fellow here. He joins us now to talk about test the costs of caf con back for having so while letter what is the message to Pres. Trump about caf well.

The letters actually in response to those rules that the Trump administration recently put out, and that rule was that you said the update of the so-called caf standards which occur every effectively every five years and also a duel requirement which is try to reduce CO2 emissions of greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles to her very closely linked.

As you pointed out that the caf standards originally was, of course, only to address oil shortage due to embargo by the Middle Eastern part of the world and we had a shortage of gasoline and as a result of that, Congress passed caf so the idea was purely of the point in that context fuel efficiency. Of course, were no longer important for a net exporter of hydrocarbons, but that's the caf standard. Now do the rule that was proposed by the Obama administration previous ministration was was very aggressive and while it's somewhat complicated.

Suffice it to say that is always the caf standard is a corporate average fuel efficiency standard and it is meant by your entire fleet of your Ford or to Yoda. So your pickup trucks are not going to make that's not the contributor going to take to lower your average and to use a lot of small cars with higher fuel mantras to try to bring that average up and typically the people who buy pickup trucks actually subsidize the cost of those little cars because Ford loses money on those little cars and that so they have to make that up somewhere so that's sort of the overall structure of the corporate average fuel efficiency standard. The number that Pres. Obama had put forth was very high numbers 54.5 miles per gallon. So, on average, a car manufacturer was going to have to average out to 54 miles a gallon in the and in the future because 2026 or 2030 or something like that is supposed to give them a glide path to that. That's very high they would have to zoom zoom well.

As always with anything that comes out of Washington DC.

There are plenty of ways to achieve that without actually achieving one of which of course was to give you an incentive to produce a lot 250,000 units of all electric vehicles and they would be counted as as they would be counted as a very high fuel efficiency and on an absurdly unrealistically high so you be able to meet that average to help you bring your ass or job that that was part of the rule that stayed in that I objected to as part of the scientific will decide to revise report actually recognize that that was faulty. Does the Trump administration want to change that they they do that they did not change that component. They did however show that the costs and the cost of getting in cars that are so small to meet that standard could actually be higher than had been previously estimated primarily by deaths and injuries caused by being in an automobile.

That's so small, so part of their re-proposal was to take those numbers into account. They also showed innocent syllabary model. They show that the cost of course keep going up as they get more cars efficient and people would actually delay in purchasing a new car because of the higher costs into their older car would stay on the road longer and that ended up polluting more was one estimate and so that was also a document of the of the caf standard as a result of the Trump administration lowered the number somewhat and on one hole that made sense, it's better than it was the electric vehicle incentive is something more than keep pushing and as I said this on to revise your board noted that it didn't make any sense from a fuel efficiency standpoint and it didn't make any sense from from a pollution standpoint.if you ask the average person on the street. I think you would get an answer something like this headgear. I want my vehicle to not pollute as much you know heck yeah I want to get better gas mileage. But when you drill down into it. He said something very interesting that the costs keep going up. Tell us about the cost. What is it mean to a buyer of a vehicle at least standards are pushed of these vehicles to look at an average vehicle cost from when I was 16 years old trying to find enough money to buy a used car. You know the issue here is first of all, and again I try to keep these separate because they are separate mandates the cars we drive today on the road are extremely clean there.

They are clean, because they have very sophisticated technology both on the front end in terms of formational pollution and on the back and interpret control and pollution that all costs a lot of money, we might remember when we first started putting catalytic converters on car. Some of the older folks. Now those those catalytic converters are now three-way that includes oxygen sensors reinjection of oxygen later port stage in the catalyst. It's an incredibly sophisticated device but they'll cost money so the sticker price goes up the sticker price goes up and again people are driving pickup trucks they're paying more because of the subsidy that the company is having to put forth to produce the smaller cars so I think people need to know couple of things for personal all cars on the road right now are extremely clean, very clean there much more efficient than they used to be and I think it is depends on what your need for car is that you determine what you want to purchase what you want a very efficient car. You will be able to buy one.

But if you work with a pickup truck.

You'll need a pickup truck and and so's we need to keep that flexibility out there. We need to keep that freedom of choice out there electric vehicles. Now they are popular with a lot of people. How do you charge up the battery of an electric vehicle.

Well, as we talked, talked about in the past, electric vehicles are starting to lose their luster.

I think first of all, the cost of the environmental cost of putting the batteries together nor Mrs. were finding out, but we are so finally understanding that this is simply a transfer of pollution from the power plants that bring the electricity to our garage that we used to charge a battery versus simply coming from the tailpipe when we have a gasoline car and that we also known as the scientific advisory board pointed out that the cars that are electric vehicles are no more efficient.

Even though there has been some misinformation put out by the previous ministration there there no more efficient. So there not more efficient, and they're not easier on the environment and also they don't work well when it gets cold fascinating, as subject to that Don Vandermark has been writing about town where there is caf standard or electric vehicles. You can read all of his work at John Locke.Borg.

He is a senior fellow here at the John Mott foundation.thank you very much that's all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch. I'm Donna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week or more, Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John lawn foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation donations that support programs like Carolina journal radio send email to development John Locke.or call 1866 Jayla info 1-866-553-4636 Carolina journal radio is the John lawn foundation, Carolina free-market think tank and Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program and are solely did not merely reflect the station information about the show. Other programs and services of the foundation. John Locke.toll-free at 866 JM would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across Carolina and our sponsors. Carolina journal radio. Thank you for listening. Please join us again next week

Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime