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Carolina Journal Radio No. 772: Relaxing nurse practitioner restrictions could boost rural health care

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
March 5, 2018 12:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 772: Relaxing nurse practitioner restrictions could boost rural health care

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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March 5, 2018 12:00 am

State lawmakers interested in improving access to health care in North Carolina should consider relaxing restrictions on nurse practitioners. That’s a recommendation from Katherine Restrepo, John Locke Foundation director of health care policy. Restrepo explains how so-called scope-of-practice reform could play an important role in boosting rural health care. Private property rights play a critical role in a free society. The U.S. Constitution focuses attention on protecting those rights. Ilya Somin, professor of law at George Mason University, discussed the Constitution’s property rights protections during a recent speech at N.C. State University. Somin shares themes from that presentation. Another mass school shooting, this time in Florida, has revived the discussion of arming school teachers and principals. During a recent N.C. legislative debate, Rep. Larry Pittman, R-Cabarrus, and Sen. Ronald Rabin, R-Harnett, shared opposing views on the issue. State government retirees saw an almost immediate benefit from the federal tax law change. State Treasurer Dale Folwell credits the quick work of his staff. Folwell explains how their actions helped place an extra $5.7 million in retirees’ bank accounts. Some economic commentators believe recent economic growth signals that increased inflation is on the way. Roy Cordato, John Locke Foundation senior economist, explains why those commentators are wrong. Cordato says the basic economic law of supply and demand counters the faulty argument linking growth to inflation.

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From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal Radio One Muskoka during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state.

Private property rights play a critical role in a free society during a recent speech at NC State University and national expert explained the U.S. Constitution's role in protecting private property of another mass school shooting has revived discussion of arming public school teachers and principals to hear from state lawmakers on opposite sides of the issue state treasurer Dale Falwell says quick work from his staff helped state government retirees get a tangible benefit from the recent federal tax reform to learn how and will discuss why economic commentators are wrong when they try to link economic growth to inflation. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline more than 6000 nurse practitioners are licensed in North Carolina.

It's a fact that our next guest says should play a key role in the discussion over how to expand access for healthcare services, particularly in underserved areas of the state.

Catherine Restrepo is the John Locke foundation's director of healthcare policy.

She joins us now to talk about nurse practitioners. Catherine welcome back to the shop thinking.

First of all, what are they as petitioners they known as mid-level providers.

So it can treat lots of health care needs for patients in primary care setting.

This practice in primary care setting and they really work hand-in-hand with physicians and other healthcare providers, and when in the state of healthcare shortages in certain parts of the state. They can be very instrumental in expanding access to care in rural areas and extending the reach to patient their they have training their experts in certain things but they don't have as much training as NASA only has nearly as much training or clinical education. As physicians as physicians). Just click they can take care of many primary care needs in primary care setting. So legislators are starting to look at the profession of nurse practitioners and thinking these professionals might be able to play a role in what you just mentioned expanding access because we know that we have a lot of doctors were practicing in North Carolina, but Catherine, we still have places where there is a shortage right at me like in over 1/4 counties are seeing a shortage in an OB/GYN's obstetricians.

There are 26 counties don't have one I'm dental access to any dentists. A lot of them are clustered in wake County. I think like of the 4000 Dennis in the state over 1200 or 2200 are in wake County alone hums though there are significant disparities in you know it's not so much of the supply issue and in the state of North Carolina where healthcare professionals are located. But it's really a maldistribution issue. You know, a lot of them are clustered to where the major hospital systems are in. In the case of nurse practitioners on based on how they can practice in North Carolina is holding them back from me be going into rural areas gets us into a very interesting situation that you been writing about a John Locke.org explain the relationship that nurse practitioners are required to have by law with the doctor yet, so if nurse practitioner is licensed North Carolina how they practice, they have to have a they have to establish the collaborative practice agreement with the physician and that sort of outlines how often will meet every year, sort of, the parameters of their patient population on the types of patient that will be managing in the prescribing authorities and so in a way you know these nurse practitioners aren't there not tied to where a physician has to be but they are overseen by physician for certain things like prescribing authority on and it limits them from may be locating in a more rural area if they want to. I mean, right now they can with that collaborative practice agreement, but it can be risky because the doctor may not feel comfortable with a nurse practitioner going to a claim twice a week in a rural area and is something beyond her scope and physician may feel uncomfortable because he's not there at that moment with the nurse practitioner are they collaborating on a regular basis. I mean, is this a a traditional manager supervisor situation like we might have a different type of work on things. It's really general supervision and when you have a nurse practitioner and a physician know they can be working nurse practitioner can be employed by physicians practice so they can be collaborating all the time but is not direct supervision.

And that's really the key difference here if it's not direct supervision.

Then what is that the reasoning behind this required collaboration right and that's an excellent question and mean. Regardless of what you have is clutter.

Collaborative practice agreements are not nurse practitioners will say that they still will collaborate with physicians, but what ends up happening is that these contracts can be pretty pricey as well and so say that a nurse practitioner wants to have her own clinic in these contracts can be pretty costly. So, I mean one source was telling me that nurse practitioner has her own clinic, but she wanted to bring on another nurse practitioner I'm to grow her clinic, but the contract that she has of the physician is pretty expensive and so is preventing her from hanging on the nurse practitioner. What is all of this mean then to average North Carolinians.

I can imagine for example Catherine that we have someone listening to us talk right now who may be, is living in the western part of the state and right now is having to drive a long distance to see a doctor in his hearing us and thinking a way to second if there somebody who's qualified to help me with my my basic medical needs. Why can't I have access to that person. Yeah, yeah, and that's the bay arming us. The big issue at hand here and and hopefully lawmakers will revisit scope of practice reform. I mean, it's been looked at and debated about for many legislative sessions now and right now 22 states have removed these supervisory agreements is clouded leopard a practice agreements.

In fact, Arizona on back in 2002. Remove their collaborative practice agreement and within a five year. The state trashed like the workforce and where is distributed across state of cross among nurse practitioners, and there's been a 73% increase in the number of nurse practitioners serving patients in rural areas of the state.

So this is again one way.

I mean it's a very is a multifactorial issue of health care access in rural areas.

The others a lot of factors at play that have contributed to rural areas deteriorating, and in the types of healthcare infrastructure providers that are there that this is certainly one way to help alleviate the issue. Catherine many times and we talk about access to care what I commonly hear his people talk about doctors doctors doctors and certainly that's an important manager. The most highly skilled in the actors visit and surgeons, etc. on specialists in the medical field.

When I haven't heard up until now, since you been writing about this.

A lot of talk about other medical professionals that maybe want to do certain things want to get that out out there and help people who really need greater access but why is it that were talking about this now while there's a lot of there's a lot of committees that are going on that are you have been developed in lawmakers that sit on these committees.

There's a committee right now, the legislature called improving rural access to healthcare North Carolina on there's another subcommittee on graduate medical education and its and that committees focusing on ways to redirect taxpayer dollars and how they fund certain residency slots on you and where where those residency slots where the residents in training those physicians in training where they going to practice. Are they going to be in a hospital-based setting are they going to go out in a community-based setting in more underserved areas. So there's lots of committees and meetings going on that are happening that are talking about how to bring better rural healthcare. I would imagine Just like with any really important issue, there's gotta be a range of views on this.

What if you heard or read in your analysis of this issue from doctors and from other nurses and what are they thinking about this are they thinking it's it's time to make a change your North Carolina, like other states have or there some reservations mean there's there's plenty reservations on this issue. I know physicians will say I mean nurse practitioners will say in and other. I mean, there's lots of evidence out there. Not just nurse practitioners that are writing these studies, but there's other organizations that have conducted studies looking at patient quality outcomes of care when care is delivered by nurse practitioner compared to that of a physician, and for many primary care needs.

The quality outcomes are similar.

Sometimes there there are some studies where patients prefer to see be seen by nurse practitioner on compared to a physician, but you know physicians will say that you know they're the captain of the ship, you know, they're the team leader with money, Constantine-based care and that is that is absolutely true. But when there is so when there's limited options in certain parts of the state. This, again, this is one way we can increase supply been talking with Catherine Restrepo. You can read her analysis of this and John Locke.org solution and stay with us much more Carolingian radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices.

Spending tax dollars wisely.

Carolina journal.com tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal in print each month and on the web each day@carolinajournal.com you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics.

No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public events@carolinajournal.tv and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina journal radio in print on the air and on the web.

You can find the information you need@carolinajournal.com welcome back Carolina journal radio on Muskoka property rights are critical to a free society. Why, or next guest will help us discuss that topic you be assuming is professor of law at George Mason University and the recently discussed property rights in the Constitution during a speech at North Carolina State University.

Thanks for joining us.

Thank you very much for having me. So before we get to some current controversies involving property rights. Reminds why is this such an important issue that people ought to be paying attention to for several reasons.

First, property rights are an important element of freedom more generally. Without the right to private property is hard to have a free society virtually impossible. It's hard for individual citizens to exercise their autonomy.

In addition, development economists have increasingly found that secure property rights are essential to economic growth, particularly in poor nations and also for poor people within our own society as well.

What does our Constitution say about property rights are protected. The Constitution has several provisions protecting property rights. Perhaps the most important is the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment, which says that the government can only take private property for public use and also must pay just compensation. In addition, there is the due process clauses of the fifth and 14th amendment, which ensured that government cannot take away your property without due process of law. Obviously, each of these provisions under meeting is been the subject of much controversy, but all I think properly interpreted to provide significant protection for property rights are also other provisions that protect them indirectly has support for private property rights waxed and waned it all.

Over the years.

Definitely.

So, certainly in the early Republic, protecting property rights was one of the main objectives of the federal Constitution was one of the reasons why the founders set it up in the first place. Also, while there was a lot of debate over property rights in the 19th century and over the meaning of these provisions that have just described. Still generally speaking, the dominant view in state and federal courts and also among legal experts about time was that there should be strong judicial protection for property rights that began to wane in the progressive era in the late 19th and early 20th century, and a least with respect to judicial review by federal courts. It collapsed almost entirely. After the new Deal era from beginning from the 1930s to roughly the 40s and into the 50s.

There is been somewhat of a revival over the last 30 years, though I think that revival fall short in some places and it's still highly controversial but overall there has been a challenge to what used to be the post-new Deal orthodoxy which said that the judiciary should provide widower no protection for property rights. That is the voice of Prof. Ilya Sillman of George Mason University.

He has discussed property rights in the Constitution during a speech at North Carolina State University. Also the author of the grasping hand, kilo versus city of New London and the limits of eminent domain and also if you are interested in learning a little bit more about eminent domain. One of the people involved in the book eminent domain.

A comparative perspective that we were talking generally about property rights, but there are also some current controversies involving property rights. What's one of the bay. Once you're watching right now one big one that perhaps many of you have seen in the news is going on in Houston right now as I think most people know large parts of Houston were flooded during hurricane Harvey but some parts that were spared by the hurricane itself were deliberately flooded by the US Army Corps of Engineers on the theory that doing so might avoid still greater flooding that might've happened if certain water reservoirs overflowed, but obviously these people who had their homes or businesses flooded at the behest of the government deliberately flooded their pretty angry about it is understandable and they filed large numbers of lawsuits in federal courts. I think dozens of them, arguing that this was a taking of their property by the government and therefore deserves compensation. A couple of years ago, the Supreme Court unanimously rejected the Obama administration somewhat extreme argument that deliberate flooding of property by the government can never be a taking, but the court was somewhat vague under the questionable exactly when his deliberate flooding a taking and when it's not. Unfortunately, in the present litigation. The federal government in the Trump administration is taking the position that if the flooding happened only one time. It's never a taking no compensation.

Critics call this the one free flood rule.

I think that this doesn't make much sense that if the government inflict severe damage on your property by flooding it.

It should be considered a taking. They may have a good reason for doing it, just as they may have a good reason, sometimes for taking your property to build a road or some other public facility, but the Constitution I think still requires the payment of compensation.

In such cases, so I think these Houston cases are not only important itself in themselves. With her large numbers of people involved but they will likely set important precedents for future situations like this is sadly this probably won't be the last time that the government deliberately flights property you're also watching. I understand another piece of property rights information that deals with the Trump administration, and specifically Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions. Yes, this relates to the practice of asset forfeiture which is a technical legal term for a kind of legalized plunder that the government engages in. Basically if you are investigators suspected of a crime in many states and also in some federal government programs the government can seize your property and keep it. Even if you yourself are never charged with a crime, much less convicted of one they can do this on the theory that your property was somehow involved in the crime may be drug dealers.

Use your car to do a drug sale or something of the sort and in many states, the seizure can occur in such a way that the owners have very little opportunity to challenge it.

The government may hold onto it for many months before they can challenge the seizure. Any when you can. The procedures often are stacked against the owners there than reform efforts. In many states to try to fix this problem, but in recent years increasingly induced states where reform efforts have cracked down on this practice, both by limiting seizures and also limiting the ability of law enforcement agencies to keep the plunder for themselves. This is been gotten around by the state law enforcement working with federal government and what is known as equitable sharing. So in technical lingo, the federal government adopts the taking to adopt the seizure, and then they distribute some of the loop back to the state law enforcement agencies that is getting around state law prohibitions. This program was curbed late in the Obama administration but Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions reinstated it fully over the summer in Congress. Their efforts to abolish the sessions policy to amendments that would do this nearly unanimous. We passed the House of Representatives.

The broad bipartisan support both left and right have reasons to be angry about this. The issue is now before the Senate, where it also has some bipartisan support, but obviously it's easier to obstruct bills in the Senate in various ways in the house, so people mentioned this issue I think will be watching to see what happens in the Senate. People hear the words property rights in their eyes start to glaze over what would you say to them about no, no, you need to pay attention. This this is important. Property rights structure our lives in many different ways.

Whenever you buy a house whenever you engage in many kinds of transactions property rights were involved. Moreover, property rights are essential to economic development. That's one of the major functions of the major findings of modern development economics in cities where property rights are severely restricted. It destroys a great deal of wealth both in this country and abroad, particularly for the poor.

Prof. Ilya Sillman of George Mason University for Jones, thank you very much for having a lot more on Carolina Journal radio just a moment if you love freedom weave that great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups all across the state. All in one place North Carolina conservative.com one stop shopping for North Carolina St. movement had North Carolina conservative.com.

You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina Journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analyst plus opinion pieces and reports on higher education. All of that from the Pope Center for higher education policy commentary and polling data from the Cintas Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all of that, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Log on today. North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina Journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina Journal.

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What about professors of colleges Republican state representative Larry Pittman recently shared his view, this is across the spectrum of the K-12 and everything of offer legislation that would allow for principles who have the superior and teachers who have superior with the approval of the principal deuterium schools tell you what I'm thinking at all. This I was dismayed to find her so many resource officers in schools who are not all will support it, was the point of having an officer.

There is no if I which persons go go in and shoot up a school or community college or whatever that resource officers want to take out in a and then who's lifted, defend, and by there to please get there in about time you get a bunch of people dated when the to pursue this we need to allow people proper training to concealed carry permits to carry on campus. At least the teachers at least the professors who are properly trained and permitted should be able to do that because I love our police, their great. They do a wonderful job, but the team be aware it wants, and the people have a right to defend themselves and we should pursue this another Republican State Sen. Robert Rabun disagrees with folks all very fine to talk about concealed carry permit people being able to carry weapons for the coenzymes were talking about unless you've been in the chaos of combat and then shot it. That is a slippery slope to be known and considerate, very very carefully. I have no problem with the SROs having the BLE team training or similar training and full disclosure, I am obviously Second Amendment advocate should have to be careful when you can view situations, the best laid plans of mice and men go absolutely sure why.

When you get in the chaos there is no way to figure out who's going to shoot what when where how and why and when you start snapping those rooms off with a handgun that Roane can go anywhere because you don't really have time to do all this neat stuff you're talking about. Start this the guarantor you if I were trying to hook Sen. Clark would go over there and hit the clock in chaos.

Okay. Just think about that before you come down this road listening to contrasting ideas about arming public school teachers and principals or college professors in North Carolina overture with more Carolina Journal radio with about real influence.

You either have it or you don't and at the John Locke foundation. We do, and that's not bluster in a private survey of more than 250 North Carolina political insiders 87% said we influence them either a great deal or a good amount.

So while others talk and complain. We get to work providing research solutions and help our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse that is the envy of every other state. Our research is actually help policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn. Expand your choice of schools for your kids.

Widen your job opportunities and improve your access to doctors.

The recipe for stability and a bright future. The John Locke foundation were dedicated to making North Carolina first and freedom were dedicated to you will Qubec Carolina Journal radio.

I which coca most people can expect to see long term benefits from the recently approved federal tax law. There's one group that Saul almost immediate short-term gains here to explain how is Dale Falwell North Carolina State Treas. will Qubec.

The program that you have me back. This is something that actually affects hundreds of thousands of people in North Carolina added to is something that happened almost immediately after the president signed this text will tell us what happened will a couple things happened number one your listeners know that as state treasurer were written the check delivering business. We spend almost $800 million every 30 days just for the pension healthcare and pharmacy benefit for active and Ricard state employees and we have a group of employees in our retirement division who had a goal this year that I'm aware of that so that we will try to get the to nine 1099s as soon as possible so they got those out two weeks ahead of time. Never that Quicken Norco history draw retirees summative elf had a remark week or so excess of what you been doing lately. This is 20 January and they said all you hear about us and though they had the taken upon themselves, which is in our press release to actually take the tax package of the Congress passed and Pres. Trump signed and actually work with our IT department to implement the lower tax rates. So the $500 million worth of benefit retirement checks that went out last Friday all incorporated the lower tax rates which resulted in almost $5.8 million of additional money in the hands of our retirees.

This is money that they would eventually be betting benefiting from anyway.

But it was because of the quick work of your staffers that they got it as soon as they did well. Not only do they get it as soon as they do, but if they did pay that based on the rates that will be in existence. Although 2018 they would really have to wait until April 2019 to get this money back. So this was a big win for our retirees is just another example is the state treasurer on the cupola keeper. The public person. Not only do I take them seriously but lot of hundreds of the hard-working employees that work for most like this are usually also know you had a chance after more than a year now in office to see what these out with these workers in your department doing is commonplace that they're looking for ways to help the people of North Carolina, in a way like this or another way. Well, I'm very honored to have had the experience of working with people with vision plum security for over three years.

There is route. I was almost 800 employees. Treasurer's office about half that size. And I know the the ability the creativity the integrity of the passion of the of the of the average state employee in were trying to set a culture Mitchell from figuring out what's right get it right and keep it right on behalf of the taxpayers and participants of these plans, and when doing that they sorta have to see examples that when they when they try to do something when they take the initiative when they volunteer and raise their hand.

For the toughest jobs and without being asked in this particular case, they they need to know that the treasure Coast stand behind.

We all know that the people who are really trying hard menu included doesn't always work out the way that we intended but they see example after example, the reward integrity ability and passion in our department and there just a super excited in different parts of our agency about how to take care of this.

We have a lot of problems. We have a state health plan that is one of the most bankrupt state health plans in United States behind Illinois on a per capita basis. According to some of the research centers where paying out benefits to all people who didn't deserve. We're just trying to figure out how to get the benefit to the people that deserve make sure that people who don't deserve don't get those benefits and and set these plans up the next 10 to 20 years so that their sustainable so the state employee and the taxpayers are also state employees and the general assembly is that appropriate money can have some level of certainty because the two topics about how you fund your healthcare and pension. According to Bill Gates is going to be the dominant conversation over the next decade and will have the biggest impact on public education in this country going forward.

How all of us do these unfunded lagoons we're chatting with Dale Falwell deserve anything within the laws are within the way the bureaucracy is set up that that thwarts them that stops them from doing these types of things that are innovative will occasionally but it's a great question and because of Vincent press recently about our trauma route reform or disability system. The North Carolina employee employee disability system is broken in all counts of levels. It's very similar to what I found it DES is broken, broken, those are really two different things and there's been some negative press regarding how were doing with that and our culture is that we don't get to pick and choose which laws to apply and we'll get to pick and choose which people to apply and the culture is is that when we find injustice and that's no other word for when somebody who deserves these benefits doesn't get a moment correct or timely basis is and just unjust and when the people who get him who don't deserve that's unjust also. So what binds us together is not our political party or or or genders or what part of the state were from all the other things sort of violence right now in the grand scheme of things. What what brings us together is is the fact that the justice associated with figuring out which right getting it right and keeping it right on behalf of the taxpayers shall, one of the things we know that you like to do as in the case of talking to us of this radio show is bring attention to things that your workers are doing like this quick work on applying federal tax law. How does that help with the culture in the department. Does it make people who might have a might not have stepped forward with ideas, step forward and say hey you, why don't I try this thing that I've been thinking about for years and years will it it it doesn't the skin, competitive after two or three of them see their name actually press release and where I'm happy assist a treasurer is when I can push the power away from myself and to the people of the agency does us were on the happy assist when I can push that power away from me and into them is important for your listeners know that people do not call the treasurer's office to book a cruise. It's normally a life-changing event. Some are really great. Some of them are really sad last year just on state health plan.

We had 181,000 life-changing of vents just on our state helpline last year. People who had a child. People who have lost a loved one, lost a spouse got married. Lots of other things.

So it's important that are the culture of our agency is to remember who our customers are and our job is to make those participants treat them like customers. Then, in some instances, especially regarding the state helpline is determined watchdogs. Thus, the most exciting part of what we do will Falwell North Carolina State Treas. Thanks once again for joining us a lot more on Carolina Journal radio full-color throughout every issue more visual storytelling. We've revamped Carolina Journal to make it easier to read a new look and a new feel. But one thing hasn't changed and it never will. That is our commitment to truth and transparency in government, you can still count on Carolina Journal for investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles and vetting of corruption.

No permission to shine the light on what North Carolina government and the bureaucrats who run it are doing in your name and with your money will never wane and because of that our reach and influence are growing to all of our distribution outlets we reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians every month so make sure you stay informed. Read the monthly print edition of Carolina Journal then check in several times a day. Carolina Journal.com that's where you'll find fresh stories, opinion pieces and updates on government politics and your money. Carolina Journal we hold government accountable to you. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I'm Donna Martinez with the economy growing strongly. Some business commentators are now pushing a narrative that returns basic economics on its head. John Locke foundation's senior economist Dr. Roy Coronado joins us now to explain the faulty economics at play and what we should really know about what's happening with the economy right. Welcome back to the shelf E back on were starting to hear a certain phrasing and that is that the economy is now overheating right. What does that mean well, I would argue means very little if if what they're implying is that there's too much economic growth is a have too much economic well it's a very good question. In reality is if what you mean by economic growth is more goods and services being produced more stuff out there that people want.

You really can't have too much of it people's wants are infinite and they were perfectly willing to consume was produced and so the idea that you can have too much of that and on top of what I argue that that can be causing inflation really makes it a little sense when you understand the idea that the more of any particular good. There is the price of that good is likely to go down assessing the truth.

If you have more more of all goods throughout the economy. So when the user's term overheating economy. They have a put particular notion of economic growth in mind, which is really something called too much aggregate demand help us understand that well accurate to me. It is really at the no emphasis on on the supply side of the economy. It's the it's the notion put forth by what are called Keynesian economics goes back to the 1930s and it would it's what's driven a lot of policy of Obama's stimulus package. I would argue George Bush's stimulus package and that the idea is that people will demand so many goods and services and and and and supply can't keep up with it and therefore prices will go up but design. One way that can happen right you have to ask yourself where the money come from for people demanding more goods and services without producing more goods and services which is how we all get the typically are able to demand more stuff we produce more we work more weeks, then you have to ask yourself where is the money come from, and that because it's that money that drives inflation and it comes from the Federal Reserve and the Pat is there to ask to manipulate the money supply Roy for those of us who aren't economists lion like you are. It seems that there's something pretty basic going on here.

I thought we all wanted more growth because we wanted more people to be working more people to be either producing products or providing services and then on the other hand, it's more people are working, they more people would have money to spend in the IT out there buying it. That was all a good thing was that somehow turned into something that we need to be concerned about your problem.is that you have a PhD in economics that you think about things in common sense way it looked.

The way that gets turned on its head is really I will be done by real traditional economic thinking, not by thinking about economics away. Adam Smith thought about it the way I would argue all good supply-side economist think about a book the way that is really driven most thinking in macro economics and even today, although much too much lesser degree economics textbooks of the 19 certainly 1950s 60s 70s and 80s.

This idea that the really economic growth is all about command people wanting to buy stuff that somehow you can have too little economic too little demand or too much demand and you you know it's the governments job to manipulate demand to get to be the right amount to much inflation or or too much unemployment.

If you have too little demand so the whole thing is about people demanding support. The fact is, is that people have no problem wanting to demand stop freight.

We all want more stuff that's not an issue.

The issue really is supply producing, producing and creating incentives to do so I would argue that all contrary to Lottie's business economy. So I think I really just steeped in this Keynesian way of thinking that the dead that it's it's really economic growth in the true sense of the word increase supply goods and services and to be quite frank Dave. Dave harped on the tax cuts, recent tax cuts by saying this is going to fuel too much economic growth. This is going to overheat the economy.

They really don't understand the nature of these cuts, which is to stimulate the supply side of the economy, not the demand side, you mentioned the word inflation small help us understand what is it exactly what is inflation again. For those of us who aren't economists is a good thing is that a bad thing is gonna cost us more money. The traffic every garb again. I guess I might take issue with a lot of a lot of some some economists. I think that inflation is an eroding of the purchasing power of our money of our revenue.

Our incomes right it's overall increase in the prices of goods and services in the economy, what does that mean it means every dollar in our wallet is worthless.

I'm sorry that's a bad thing. And so it is generally cause the Milton Friedman's famous for saying that inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon. What he meant by that is, inflation is caused by really too much money or another way is been put his too many dollars chasing too few goods and services right dollars trade against goods and services. The more dollars you have relative to goods and services, the less valuable those dollars are going to be simple supply and demand is inflation coming I would. I guess I would argue that it let me just say I'm concerned about that.

Not for the reason that these business commentators, not because there's too much economic growth, but there's too much monetary growth. Okay this too much money Bitton has been for the last 15 or so years mean all talk of quantitative easing and interest rates you had zero or slightly above zero.

What what is all that talk about what's about the Federal Reserve pumping lots of new money into the economy and that is had all kinds of bad consequences over the years. The bulk of the. The real estate bubble in in 2007 eight error to the bursting of the bubble was about easy money meaning of a loose monetary policy pumping lots of money.

Where was that money channel that was channeled into the two real estate markets because when the Fed pumps pumps money into the economy. Go through the banking system drives down interest rates and encourages people to borrow and so there's not a we call this false growth right these bubbles right that people are over investing in things that there's no real demand for Leslie Roy are things going well right now.

I mean kind of fit in very basic terms should we feel positive about the national economy. Why do by large oval like I said, I am concerned about what is happened with with monetary policy over the last 15 years, both under the Federal Reserve appointed by George Bush and then really which was a continuation with Obama same kinds of policies afterwords inflating the currency and which can have can have a pretty serious effects like the bubbles.

Dr. Roy Coronado, the senior economist for the John Locke foundation.

Thanks so much, my pleasure. That's all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week for another edition.

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