Carolina Journal Radio No. 794: Economic impact of 2020 RNC unclear for Charlotte

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state more and more American leaders are treating politics as an excuse for a performance of all of in the journal national affairs explains what that means. He also discusses the impact for American government.

The recent hubbub involving president trumps Helsinki Summit is probably one North Carolina congressman to renew his push for election security to learn why a Fayetteville man now serves as US Sec. of Veterans Affairs, you'll hear Robert Wilkie's priorities for his new job and will learn why North Carolina might be able to learn some lessons from New Mexico when it comes to occupational licensing reform.

Those topics are just ahead. First Donna Martinez towards us with the Carolina Journal headline now that Charlotte has been chosen as host city for the 2020 Republican national convention, analysts are beginning to assess the impact the convention could have on the city. While conventional wisdom is that this is a big big win for Charlotte. Some folks are starting to say it will come with headaches and potentially long-term taxpayer costs.

Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal Carolina Journal in the team.

There have been reporting on the convention, Rick. I welcome back to the show. Thank you so it was a bipartisan effort across the state to different leaders of political types of elected officials, particularly the mayor Charlotte by Lyle who put together this bid, so to speak, and everyone was very happy that Charlotte was chosen. Understandably so. But I didn't hear any talk about. Well, there could be some downsides to this. But now analysts are saying there are Charlotte was an interesting case because Charlotte was host the 2012 Democratic national convention, which was largely perceived as a big success for the city of Briley raise the profile nationally, like and 2020 Republican convention was only down to two cities Las Vegas and Charlotte and Las Vegas pretty much dropped out.

So Charlotte was the last duty standing is not as if people were falling all over themselves to get the convention the potential downsides of this convention.

It was a result there are always security concerns whenever conventions come to town to Anytown and so there's that with Charlotte 2012 the concerns were largely dealing with the situation with Bradley Chelsea Manning and WikiLeaks and that release of information and a lot of left-wing anarchists type protesters disrupting areas around uptown Charlotte without the likely renomination of Donald Trump in 2020 of the left-wing anarchists I protesters the same crew that I recruited a group of protesters to come in for this is convention, but there are the security concerns always involved whenever you have a presidential candidate coming in detail so that's part of it does disrupt business in the area around the convention thing about it.

Economically Rick is that this is always not just when it comes to Charlotte but any any city whose have an event like this. It is always sold is a huge economic boom to the city.

Is it really know it's it's a nice little short-term boost. Maybe we talked to Mark Eberly get the universe north Carolina Charlotte, who's actually written literally written the book about the impact economic impact of political conventions on cities and its the short-term boost, but it may not really be much of a boost at all because the way that these economic impact reports written up. They act as if absolutely zero activity would happen if the convention work there weekend so the impact of the only information we have from the Charlotte regional visitors Authority was at the Democratic convention in the back of about $163 million on Charlotte during the weekend. The convention was there.

Now that doesn't compare with what a normal weekend of economic activity would be uptown Charlotte so it could be weep. I'm sure it's more than that would be, but there the other costs involved to first of all, every convention gets a commitment of $50 million of taxpayer money from the federal government to handle security so the taxpayer cost of that initially a $50 million.

Whatever it secondly there is the problem of having the sort of the security zone set up around the convention area. There are a lot of restaurants around the Carolina Panthers stadium and also around the of the spectrum center which is where the nominating acceptance speeches will be made. Some of those restaurants really really well.

Others would have to be shut down because W security perimeter height.

I spent some time in 2012, wandering around the area right in the early hours of the morning and it was very much like a war zone. There police were stopping every cars going by, they were searching at the diverting cars in different directions.

There were a number of businesses in uptown Charlotte that told employees to stay home that we cannot come to work and so it does disrupt the local economies of the give the benefit is not all positive and actually happily and his crew figured out that the gross domestic product for the Charlotte area for a year is about hundred and $63 billion.

So if it matches the 2012 Democratic convention that will be 1/10 of 1% of Charlotte's gross domestic product for a year. If the convention cuts are that the folks you really like this idea and think it's going to be positive. Are they essentially hang their hat on the more intangible, esoteric thing of branding. The city perhaps future tourism short. That's exactly the idea and that that's what they do is say well if you come to Charlotte you go to the NASCAR Hall of Fame. You'll see the panther stadium. You'll see the Time Warner's receiving spectrum. Senatorial want to come back you want to come back at a different time and that but that happens anytime the convention substance that doesn't just happen with the with the political conventions are all sorts of conventions take boys all the time. So that's not something necessarily would sell a presidential nominating convention. In fact, you don't have the other security concerns that come from conventions that don't involve presidential now on the hook also to do some private fundraising for the host committee has made a commitment to raise $70 million for this convention. I think the commitment was something like 40 or 50 million for the Democratic convention and they didn't come up. They came up short and Duke energy had to provide $10 million to the host committee to make that happen and Duke energy. If we all River is a regulated monopoly utility so they are essentially paid to have the Democratic convention in Charlotte Sunday it will be interesting to see if they're able to raise that level of money but often it doesn't happen. I was working in Denver with the 2008 Democratic convention was there and again the host committee came up short. And so, in some cases states or cities pick up the difference. In other cases they get done they do shame private portable companies and coming up with it, but Charles case that pride a local company have to be utility Larry.

Let's hope that doesn't happen again. Will speaking of politics. Sam requested some polling that we have out now these are new poles or a new poll from the civic tax Institute into very interesting races that Carolina journal has been reporting on and read the stories and Carolina journal.com first at about the ninth district where you have the Republican Mark Harris versus the Democrat Dan McCready. Now this is been a Republican seat, but the Cintas poll says that Democrat McCready is leading the SCS. The polls showed that about 4336 lead for Democrat Dan McCready over Mark Harris was the Republican nominee Mark Harris defeated incumbent Republican representative Robert Pittenger by about 800 votes in the primary picture was embattled himself and so he would had a tough race but that the two concerns that the Rev. Harris will have his number one he's being out that he's being outraised badly financially so he has a deficit of at least $1 million right now and in and also he has very bad's numbers among female voters. He's he had a basically a 16 point disadvantage against premium of women voters and so that's going to be a big big hill to climb. In fact, there's a lot of national interest from national Democrats in in that race.

They seem to think that Dan McCready is a Democrat who can attract perhaps independence, maybe even some more liberal Republicans and a conflict that seat and of course it's all about the national Democrats efforts to retake control of the United States House of Representatives out. This is gonna be when I know that Carolina journal will be focusing on.

Also several other races including the 13th congressional district where you have Republican incumbent Ted died versus Democrat Kathleen Manning we've been talking with Rick Henderson who was editor-in-chief of Carolina journal. Thank you, thank you stay with us much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina journal.com tackles those questions every day.

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You can find the information you need that Carolina journal.com look back Carolina journal radio like Michiko got few of us would dispute the notion that Donald Trump is a very different kind of American president, but our next guest says that at least one aspect of trumps presidency emphasis on performance is a trait shared with others in our political leadership.

That common trait is having a major impact on political institutions. That's the argument from you've all been editor of national affairs and author, most recently of the fractured Republic joins us now to discuss this issue. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so that this really is something that people who follow Donald Trump closely have notices that he does as in his previous career as a television celebrity really seemed to look at this position as a place to be a performer yeah it's really extraordinary when you watch him do it because he eat his understanding of the presidency not really having been shaped in the in by the kinds of experiences that really every past president, one where others had it as an elected official or as a senior military officer Trump is not been shaped by those institutions is really been shaped by his experience as a media figure as a celebrity. Frankly, and thinks of the presidency is maybe just the biggest stage she's ever had for the performance that has been his life and he approaches it. That way we can see that a lot of us as we can see it with the way in which, for example, on Twitter trouble often behave as a commentator and talk about something that the Department of Justice is done that it shouldn't of done you know they work for him and he might've told him to do otherwise.

It's almost as though he's watching television and yelling at the television. As all of us do from time to time.

Except this television would actually do what he says if he put in the right way and so there is definitely a way in which this is a performative presidency to a greater degree than we used to, but I would say that it's not it's not entirely his innovation. Our politics has been moving in this direction for a while there a lot of ways in which Pres. Obama saw himself also as a kind of performer first and foremost we also see an utterance in our other institutions. That was one of the points that you made a recent presentation of the John Locke foundation is that is not just Trump who's being the performer but were seeing that among embers of Congress people in the judiciary. Other members of our society.

How does this issue of treating these political institutions as the basis or the stage for your performance affected the answer. So I think that this is really silly is happening across the range of our institutions in American life where we've gone from expecting them to be fundamentally formative that is giving shape to the way the people within them behave in giving human shape to the character of those people being more performative to being platforms for people to perform on you can see it in a lot of our privacy as you can see in the universities where a lot of people have gone from thinking of the University as a place to be shaped to be formed by certain kind of liberal education to instead be a place to perform a place to show off their there more to display the moral vanity in one way or another journalism is moved in this direction a lot of ways and certainly a political institutions have a member of Congress today will often think of the institution as a platform for himself or herself as a way to build their national profile to get on television and radio as a way to become a kind of political celebrity and often times that means that they're not thinking about the institution. Fundamentally, as a legislature and therefore are not fighting for the prerogatives of the institution and so we see in Congress become weaker are not fighting for their own roll their own place in the legislative process, but instead are just happy to use the institution as a way to raise their profile and so a lot of what they do.

Also is performative, that is the voice of you've all been editor of national affairs, author, most recently of the book, fractured Republic.

I guess there is some irony about to political observers talking about this exactly on the radar address FM radio show, but how has this transformation into politics is sort of performance art had negative consequences in your view, well the basic trouble is that in doing this other thing they're not doing their basic work. They're not playing the part that the Constitution expects them to play and so the Congress has a very important role in our system. The primary role the Formosan central role and it is expected to be a very strong legislature when its members are expected to be motivated by an ambition that is channeled through their institution. When it doesn't happen. Congress doesn't do its job and Congress doesn't insist on its prerogatives doesn't pass legislation that compels the other branches of government in the way that it is expected to by the framers of the Constitution.

And that's part of why we've seen the Congress become weaker over time and leave a lot of important judgments and decisions to the executive branch. On the one hand, and the administrative state and to the judiciary on the other hand, conservatives like me are in the habit of complaining about the executive overreach and judicial overreach and were right to complain but a lot of this is a function of congressional underage and of of a a an unwillingness on the part of the Congress to do its fundamental job which has to do with the fact that members are actually really doing a different job you find the same thing happening with judges, you know, he read a Rita Supreme Court opinion by Justice Kennedy now and you're just watching somebody perform if someone's putting on a show for you to to prove to just how just how morally is what is not doing his will to judge other duties interpret the law on the Constitution. We think of this as a kind of judicial activism judicial overreach, but it is also a performance and suffers from the same problems that we find in the Congress and in the presidency. How much of this is a function of the fact that we have much larger and more available stage space you absolutely it's true there more places to perform their more ways to become celebrity. What is meant is that a lot of our other institutions of been transformed themselves into stages from the judicial bench to the floor of the Congress. We've seen these places transform into performative spaces, no doubt because there are many more ways to get in front of of the public what we do about it. Well I think what's required is some recovery of institutional ambition, and frankly, the only way for that to happen is for the people who occupy these positions to wanted to happen and that means making the case for why a member of Congress ought to see a stronger Congress as serving his own ambition and and and political interests.

Why president ought to seek being the chief executive is the way to as the way to become an important figure in American life in American history where judge should see actually interpreting the law as the way to become important. Play the role are supposed to play ethics argument, and so really it takes this kind of conversation is one of the problems the fact that no one has really paid a price for being one of these performers be, but we rarely see people getting voted out because they seem to be playing more to the cameras than doing their job. Yeah, no question about it. I think that so this argument that has to be made has to be made to voters photos certainly are unhappy with Congress read through the approval rating of Congress to mean it doesn't reach much beyond immediate relatives of members and staff. But nonetheless, voters don't respond to that dissatisfaction by insisting that members return to an idea of what a member of Congress is supposed to do that's better in front of the Constitution. Certainly, the president benefits from being a performer, or at least he thinks he does every president ever. Recent presidents thought so and so again the political pressure has to be there to compel our politicians to do with the required to do our system of government that calls for better citizens and that's no small challenge of his given what you know about the people involved in the process. Do you see anyone out there who is willing to move away from this politics is performance art sort of self. I think it would take institutionalists and so there are some in in in in our various branches of government. This president is a performer and that's not going to change. I think the question is whether the incentives will be there for someone to run after him by making a case that the president has a particular job and I do that particular job. It's a fascinating topic one person who's going to continue to monitor this issue very closely, as you've all been editor of national affairs, author, most recently of the book the fracture so much for joining us. Thank you very much will have on Carolina Journal radio.

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He said of the U.S. House's Freedom Caucus.

This underscores what we must do as condors we must pass legislation to make sure that actors like Russia or China or whomever it may be cannot interfere in our electoral process and yet you were critiquing a press conference today, instead of critiquing our own in action as it relates to that. I've got a bipartisan bill that that has not seen the light of day.

When are we going to get serious about the fact that cyber hacking is not only a a current problem but is a future problem that will undermine our democracy. The world learned that Putin preferred Trump to Hillary Clinton as US president Meadows response.

I don't care what his preference was it's incumbent upon us to make sure our electoral process. Make sure that John or Sally on Main Street. Their preference is what counts in his preeminent and until we do that, you're always good to have foreign actors, whether it's Putin or anybody else trying to establish their influence on their favored candidate and we just gotta figure out a way to make sure that the voters on Main Street have their voice heard.

Meadows says the US should work with Russia to address aging arsenals of nuclear weapons going to be a decision is made in the very near future and that decision is is that you continue to modernize and upgrade those nuclear arsenals to be as capable as they historically bed or do you allow for some type of agreement that would recognize than the national sovereignty of both Russia and the United States, but also the danger that is inherently their when you don't address this unbelievable arsenal that is out there. I can tell you part of my encouragement with his national security team is been to look at restarting some of the programs that potentially have been.

I guess, denigrated by some on my side, but that is is with with looking at start and end some of the other initiatives that really those negotiations have to go ahead and start in earnest, and that I think if we do that, then you're not.

The two are not mutually exclusive. You can talk about the preeminence of the United States and what makes this a great country and yet at the same time recognizing that you have two superpowers that that must at least engage in some type of of negotiation that's North Carolina Republican Congressman Mark Meadows discussing American relations with Russia will return with more Carolina Journal radio would a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina Journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina Journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with S. Listen to Carolina Journal radio each week and listened Locke to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina Journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertain both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation will Québec Carolina Journal radio why Mitch coca a Fayetteville man is now leading the federal government department that focuses on veterans issues during a recent US Senate confirmation hearing Robert Wilkie discussed his goals for the job he started by reminding senators about his long history with veterans high school was about three blocks away from the faithful veterans hospital and every day on our way to and from high school, we would see a sign outside the veterans hospital that says that the price of freedom is visible here. That's not the only way in which Robert Wilkie has encountered the military at its veterans.

I've been privileged to experience military life from many angles as the son of a gravely wounded combat soldier as an officer is a senior leader in the Pentagon, including leading the reform of the defense health agency and for eight weeks as the acting secretary of Department of Veterans Affairs by modest military service was inspired by my ancestors.

I walked the field of Shiloh with my great-grandfather currently from Somerville as a young captain of Field artillery, he witnessed thousands parish in a matter of minutes. The battle of abuse Oregon in 1980 and the short time that I was privileged knowing impressed upon me the cost paid by ordinary Americans caught up in the incommunicable experience of war. Wilkie also brought his story close to home my own life changed when my father returned from his second combat tour in Vietnam. I was seven when we received word that had been terribly wound. When he came home after almost a year in Army hospitals. He weighed less than half of what he did when he left, I watched the agonizing recovery and that experience was on my mind when I was asked to come to VA shortly after taking on the top Veterans Affairs job on an interim basis. Wilkie started touring facilities and meeting with staffers.

It was clear to me that the veterans population is changing faster than we realize for the first time in over 40 years. Half of our veterans are now under the age of 65 of America's 20 million veterans, 10%, no women. The new generation is computer savvy and demands 21st-century service service that is quick reverse close to home, the VA to thrive as an integrated healthcare network must be agile and adapt. But more importantly I experienced what can and will never be duplicated in the private sector. That is the communal aspect of the case.

What does that mean that means that when our veterans walk into any VA facility they converse with men and women who speak unique language military service that's Robert Wilkie of Fayetteville is now leading the federal government department that oversees Veterans Affairs Wilkie has definite goals for improving that department first improve the culture offer world-class customer service. Second, improve access to care through implementation of the mission act and transformative IT modernization such as electronic health records programs reduce the backlog of claims and payments and finally business transformation, including reform of our human resource system. Mr. Chapman, the prime directive is customer service. When an American veteran comes to VA, it is not up to him to employ a team of lawyers to get VA to say yes it is up to VA to get the veteran to yes that is customer service management issues I encountered as acting secretary not with the quality of medical care but with getting our veterans through the door to reach that care. Those problems are both administrative and bureaucratic. Alexander Hamilton said that the true test of good government is its aptitude and tendency to produce a good administration. That is where VA must go the new electronic health record system is the first step to modernize VA modernizes our appointment system is also the template to get us started on the road to automate disability claims and our payment claims particular to our providers in rural America.

Those who administer emergency care. More important interoperability of the new electronic health record system will connect VA to the DOD private doctors and private pharmacies to create a continuum of care and organize healthcare around the veterans needs. This is also our opportunity to turn the corner and be an industry leader on opioid abuse intervention and suicide prevention, better customer service is a key goal for Wilkie. It's not the only goal.

Business transformation standardize our policies and procedures across the integrated service networks is also essential if we are to move past the mid-1990s compartmentalized model and give power to the professionals closest to our veterans. This means reforming human resources to give those same people more leeway to manage their budgets and recruit, retain and relocate the staff they need to serve veterans transformation also means entering into more robust partnerships with our state and local communities to address veteran homelessness particularly plagues our Vietnam veterans also suffer the highest rate of suicide.

Wilkie also explained that he's not going to be able to rely on excuses that he and his staff failed to make the necessary changes chairman and secretary Matta said when this Congress passed a $700 billion defense budget. There are no more excuses you ranking member of infused VA with $200 billion budget you have passed the accountability act and shake of complacency in your past. The mission act to bring institutional VA community care and caregivers closer together with future now is up to the department. Republican Sen. Johnny Isaacson of Georgia chairs the committee overseeing veterans issues. He aimed some questions Wilkie now when you say customer service to a veteran tell me what customer service to customer service chairman means that before the veterans walks into the door of the VA is already been greeted through schedulers medical professionals with Americans who are ready to serve him.

I noted that in some of the debates. This committee had the greatest problem that you all.

Saul was actually getting the veteran through the door. I have no doubt that VA provides some of the finest care in America, but I also understand that getting to that care is something that the leadership of the Veterans Affairs Department has to focus in on like a laser. A world-class customer service is the key and that ties into something that you and I talked about in your your office and that goes to human resource management. The first people are veterans contactor usually schedulers.

VA has had a hard time keeping schedulers train them and then they often leave. I do believe that it's incumbent on the secretary of VA have long discussions with the office of personnel management to make sure that the secretary and those who work for have the ability to adjust pay scales so that people who were there at the very ground-level veteran comes to work, or comes to BC treat him respectfully and stay in that job and learn what it means to talk to about that's Robert Wilkie of Fayetteville recently tapped to lead the federal government's cabinet level department of veterans of German North Carolina journal radio in a moment a commitment to truth and transparency in government.

That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards for reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't enter reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them. Our monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month. Our online daily news site Carolina journal.com has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more. The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you.

Call 1866 JL FINF04 your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez, New Mexico, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, Louisiana, Michigan and Ohio. All of these states are working to curtail their use of stringent licensing rules for people who work in certain trades and fields. Our next guest is urging North Carolina to join me. States and what he calls a looming D licensing revolution John Sanders as Dir. of regulatory affairs for the John lock foundation. He's been writing about this issue for a number of months now joined us to talk about the latest with some of the states John, welcome back to the show based on the extremity.

So what has this handful of states concerned about what they're doing to people who want to work in certain trades and fields will they are concerned about the fact that licensing is an entry regulation on getting into your line of work, depending on what it is but in and many, many states licensing can can prevent people from entering into their line of work up to 30% of those workers give us an example of the types of jobs where you would required. You would be required to have a license and how that would impact something everybody knows things like doctors and lawyers can even be like preschool teachers. It can be different trades workers barbers sometimes hear breeders the. The list is is tremendous study done in 2004 by the Council states found that there were over 1100 different occupations are relicensed in at least one state. Why is this a concern to you.

It's concern to me because it is an entry regulation. It's the state getting involved in preventing someone from being able to do what they feel they ought to be able to do to earn a living until they satisfy all the different requirements of the state is put on.

This is the same as whether or not consumer is worried about somebody's qualifications.

It's the state saying you can even get in unless you fulfill our qualifications for give us a sense of some of the time involved or perhaps the costs involved.

If someone wants to do something. Maybe it's being that landscaper or that Mayor Brader or maybe it's a locksmith.

What I have to do and how that impacted the time involved can be going to school and in fulfilling all the educational credits which can take years and a lot of money. It includes taking tests. Sometimes multiple tests include sitting fees, driving to where the test is being held studying. Of course, finding out what what to do with family, especially if you're a stay-at-home mom is trying to get into the field.

It it can invent obviously involve licensing fees and and re-upping fees may be fulfilling logging hours as an apprentice before going live is as it were, as a even passing criminal background, or sometimes character background checks. John usually the justification for these types of rules as I understand from reading your work on this is that there would be concerns by regulators about the public being put in harm's way. If someone does their job poorly with quality issues, safety issues, what types of things are the justifications around the country and it just depends on on the field and in fact and sometimes is not even an initial quality anymore. We restart to see North Carolina not sure nationwide that some fields, mostly these boutique medical fields that the tar out of the mainstream are wanting licensing just because not because are worried about safety, but because they're worried about getting medical insurance reimbursement.

Others are worried about whether or not they are sanitary or they're worried about, fly-by-night competitors coming in or they're worried about the fact that consumers might not be able to have the same amount of information that the practitioners have so there's a knowledge and balance, in part, and consumers can be taken advantage of their different concerns, not just health and safety directly on your latest piece about this that's available@johnlock.org that you update us and say that the state of New Mexico is really surging forward in this D licensing revolution what's happening with New Mexico is is witnessing is the governor has decided to has put forth in Executive Order and asking for all the licensing agencies to issue a report by the end of August that will state what their licenses are what the requirements are, how they compare with other states that license how many states have those license how many states have those licensing requirements, and in the cases of one of the things that I liked about is in the cases of if there requirements are greater than other states requiring they have to give a written justification for why they're doing if they are licensing something that the majority of other states, aren't they have to give a justification for why there's they're doing it. When other states can do it in through the free market. Your description sounds sort of like some the things that you like to see North Carolina do. It does follow along some of the things that we John Locke have promoted for North Carolina well John if public safety or the quality of the service that really seems to be the grounding for those who advocate for these types of of licenses, while presenters can be some pushback against D licensing over those concerns, but are there other options other plenty of other options are plenty of other options. State policymakers can have that don't go to the extreme extent of preventing someone from getting into the line of work to begin with, by being an entry regulation. We promoted these ideas and John Locke for for several years. Sort of a policy pyramid. We took in the idea from the Institute for justice.

I really like the way they've done that I one of the things that they say is if you worried about cleanliness require more inspections if you worried about fly-by-night order or people just kind of cropping up require registration with the Secretary of State. If you worried about this knowledge and balance require certification the same for with medicalized with licensing and skis me with the insurance reimbursement for medical licenses that John if North Carolina adapted to that type of approach and kinda rolled back the licensing rules went with these other options that impact or how would that improve things for the folks who are working in those fields. What would it would improve things by opening up those fields to more people is one of the reasons why the currently licensed practitioners kind of oppose it on you know, not just because they're worried about safety, but there there worried about this ability. If if there are fewer competitors they can charge more so.

It also helps consumers as well because consumers will have greater options and greater choices and potentially lower prices.

How prevalent is licensing in North Carolina. North Carolina is one of the more aggressive states in the nation in terms of licensing about's not quite 1/4 of our population of workers have to have a license in order to work and some in the southeast where were much more aggressive. If you go to just cross the border in the South Carolina. They require about one third the number of licenses that North Carolina requires John over the last stand number of years half-dozen years or so with them. The current town majorities in the legislature. They have been very open and embracing of reforming regulations. Is this perhaps the next item on their list of of trying to make things a bit easier for people to earn a living. I would like it to be one of the next items on the list. I'm not sure I know there's some interest in in there but there's there are so many competing interests in the general assembly. I would really like to see that add to their regulatory reform agenda that they have been doing every year. John Sanders is director of regulatory affairs for the John Martin foundation John thinking is all the time we have for the show this week. Thank you for listening to join us again next week for another edition of Caroline Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John lot to learn more about the John Locke foundation including donations support programs like Carolina Journal radio sending email to development John Locke.for 66 GLS info 1-866-553-4636 Carolina Journal radio nation airline is maintaining Caroline and run all opinions expressed on this program nearly formation about Michelle or other programs and services in the John foundation John lot three and eight likening our wonderful radial cross North Carolina and are sponsored Carolina Journal radio again