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Carolina Journal Radio No. 799: Unaffiliated voters offer clues about 2018 election contests

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
September 10, 2018 12:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 799: Unaffiliated voters offer clues about 2018 election contests

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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September 10, 2018 12:00 am

Political prognosticators often look at independent, unaffiliated voters for clues about the likely outcomes of upcoming elections. The Civitas Institute recently polled unaffiliated N.C. voters. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, analyzes the poll’s findings. He discusses how the numbers could affect key elections and the fate of proposed constitutional amendments. A Winston-Salem surgeon is challenging state certificate-of-need restrictions that block him from buying an MRI machine. Dr. Gajendra Singh says the machine would help him provide MRI services for patients at a lower price than they would pay at a nearby hospital. You’ll hear highlights from a recent news conference with Singh and Institute for Justice attorneys. IJ is helping Singh challenge the state CON law in court. Among the recent honors for the late U.S. Sen. John McCain is one you might not have expected. Democratic N.C. Sen. Erica Smith praised the longtime Republican U.S. senator and GOP presidential nominee during a speech in the state Legislative Building. Smith used McCain’s words to urge her Democratic and Republican colleagues to do a better job working together. Silent Sam has filled recent headlines, but that Confederate statue at UNC-Chapel Hill is not the only monument generating controversy on college campuses. Shannon Watkins, policy associate at the James G. Martin Center for Academic Renewal, shares her concerns about recent debates involving the future of campus monuments. A leading Democratic U.S. senator is promoting legislation dubbed the Accountable Capitalism Act. Roy Cordato, John Locke Foundation senior economist, highlights flaws in Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s proposal. Cordato explains that capitalism already holds businesses accountable without government intrusion.

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From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I Mitch coca during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. Winston-Salem surgeon is challenging a state law that limits who can buy major pieces of medical equipment Y among the auditors for the late Republican Sen. John McCain one you might not expect from a democratic North Carolina state Sen. you hear details silence.

Sam is generated headlines across North Carolina but other college campus monuments are also leaving the controversy will explore that topic. It will examine the flaws in a new proposal to hold big corporations accountable to government expert will join us and he explains that capitalism already holds corporations accountable to consumers. Those topics are just ahead. But first, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline. If you ask a political consultant.

What is the avenue to victory in an election while she's likely to tell you that the path runs as somewhere through the unaffiliated voter now recent statewide poll of North Carolina's unaffiliated voters conducted for this demitasse Institute by Harper polling is giving us a really interesting snapshot of what those voters are thinking at least right now.

It's a story being reported on by Carolina Journal editor-in-chief Rick Henderson is here to look at the data Rick welcome back to the shelf next. First of all what is in unaffiliated voter what we know about them. Well we we know that this one thing is the second largest block of voters in the state right just ahead of the Republicans. Several percentage points behind the Democrats, but these are people who have chosen not to affiliate with either of the four political parties are all about Carolina because we have five little parties on the ballot right now. If not one of public and grass libertarians, greens and Constitution party and so they have chosen not to affiliate with any of them for a number of reasons, but because of North Carolina's primary voting is possible to be unaffiliated is so vote in a partisan primary with the primary comes along, you simply ask that you would like to have a ballot from one of the five parties and then you vote that way both the primary and a second primary. If there is so much going makes it very easy to be unaffiliated in the same time it at same time you could be unaffiliated even though you may have political leanings are going one direction or another. In most of those voters, and in fact it means that you could really be disaffected from one of the other parties. Or you could just want to keep your options open because of the dynamics of a particular race, you may want to try to have some sort of impact. How is it possible that you could be a a Democrat whose mad at cover Roy Cooper because of the Lycos pipeline could be you are a Republican whose mad at present Donald Trump for injuries you could be someone who is whose open to one of the minority parties, but really hasn't decided to do to make that leap. Because for one thing, the minority parties quite often don't have primary race.

So you may remain unaffiliated is that you have an option of voting party where there is a primary son. There also is reasons people choose not to affiliate. This recent poll. This is conducted in this step for this demitasse Institute again. Polls are always a snapshot, so this is what this group of voters are thinking right at that moment, let's talk first about a what their view is of North Carolina. It's the traditional right track. Wrong track question numbers on that were not good for the incumbent Republican Gen. assembly. Or you could say not good for the incumbent Republican or Democrat Gov. Roy Cooper and that 49% of the respondents of the unaffiliated said they thought the state was wrong wrong track, 37% said it was going the right direction and the 14% either wouldn't say or were sure about that, so that's not a good number for the people who are currently in power, so that really is more about the incumbents and we have Republicans and Democratic governor so that I supposed open to interpretation, to who or why people are not feeling good about things yet and it's also relatively close to leave so because the origin of errors around for half points and so you could conceivably see where the number could be very close if if Marge one way or for part one of the other what we do get I think a little bit more of an indication of where this group of voters. This is Sam is placing either their confidence or their lack of confidence.

If you look at the questions about where who would you vote for today. For example, the poll asked if the election for the state legislature were held today, would you vote for Republican, Democrat, or someone else. I got the unaffiliated's Republicans are seven points underwater on this.

It was 27% said they would public and 34% Democratic, 9% for the parties, and in 29% undecided if you think that actually that does seem to make some sense we think about it because the way that unaffiliated voters have played out in statewide races over the years is that about 5 to 10% of the like really is on the site really doesn't align with one party or another.

One candidate or another until very end and if unaffiliated's are roughly 30% of the voters and roughly 30% of them are decided and that means about 10% of the voters don't know where to go to me that that really doesn't seem to be surprising at all. The fact that unaffiliated's are going more heavily for Democrats and Republicans should be concerning to Republicans because Democrats have the plurality they got an advantage in registration anyway and if they got an advantage of the high single digits affiliated voters. The Republicans have got some worries and in fact in North Carolina. We are seeing a very high profile concerted effort by state Democrats and and leaders of the party in this effort that they called break the majority legislature right now. Republicans have majorities in both the House and the Senate. But these numbers don't portend good things for Republicans right Republicans have currently five seeds cushion in the house of five seat supermajority cushion other words, they have five more members than in the house than they need to sustain the room to override a veto governor will review legislation in the Senate. That margin is also five. It is a smaller body. The house hundred 20 members a sentence 50 so if you were to see. So the house say you'd see 56 seat switch in the house from Republican to Democrat, then it's quite possible that Gov. Cooper could force the Gen. assembly to compromise in some of these areas of legislation that are very contentious or force the Republicans to reach out to some disaffected Democrats if possible to to do what they need to do to get understood controversial legislation across line and Rick while the Democratic Party and its leaders and and advocates are certainly being very high-profile and vocal about this break the majority effort.

We have also seen from the Republican side legislative leaders really starting to communicate much more publicly about the things that they believe are positive steps that the Republican majority has taken in the legislature. I can't recall seeing such a concerted effort by them in quite a long time yet. They're doing an awful lot of social media. They have developed a talking point slides that talk about growth in the economy that talk about growth jobs that talk about reductions in taxes and increases in in savings and in the fiscal accountability that they have that they have championed for the past six years and they are working very heavily to communicate those and I see on my twitter feed constantly member of the of the house of the Senate may be in a competitive district clerk posting one of these PowerPoint -like slides with all the statistics and numbers of what the Republicans are taking credit for in the economy over the past 67 years and so this is what they are doing up. Also there are the issues of the constitutional amendments they place these amendments on the ballot with the notion that, though several of them that they would be appealing to conservative and presumably Republican voters. One of those amendments, which is slated for the ballot, but there are some legal issues as you and I are talking this has to do with the required photo identification to vote in North Carolina for the unaffiliated's in this poll at this time what's there view actually like it and they are in line with pretty much the state is a holder it's in the 60% vote and that means that it's over. I think it's it's it's something generally speaking across party lines people on the far left a lot of minority voters are very vehemently opposed to the writing requirement. Generally speaking, other voters are not and so this may bode well for conservatives in the fall election to fascinating one. You can read the reporting on Rick Anderson Karen chief thank you Rick, thank you very much. Same with this much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business.

How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely.

Carolina tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal in print each month and on the web each you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public and the voices of the newsmakers themselves. Carolina journal radio and print on the air and on the web. You can find the information you welcome back to Carolina journal radio amateur coca, North Carolina's certificate of the law blocks healthcare providers from adding new hospital beds or buying larger pieces of medical equipment unless they get state governments permission first. Now the law, also known as con faces a challenge in state court. Rene Flaherty of the Institute for justice explains liberty is what we here to talk about today. It's the basic right to earn an honest living and it's right it's under assault in America every day were here to talk about it in the context of healthcare. Dr. Singh earns his living as a surgeon and he also owns and founded Forsyth imaging center in Winston-Salem where he provides affordable diagnostic imaging services for his community.

Dr. Singh would like to purchase the fixed MRI scanner for his imaging center. North Carolina's outdated anticompetitive healthcare laws keep him from doing that. It's called a certificate of need law. It means that Dr. Singh have to ask permission from the government before he's allowed to purchase an MRI scanner 34 states and the District of Columbia have laws like the North Carolina's is one of the worst in the country. That's why we filed the constitutional lawsuit challenging North Carolina's certificate of need law on behalf of Dr. Singh, Josh Windham of the Institute for justice offers more details. Dr. Ginger Singh wants to provide safe, quality, affordable imaging services for patients who need them, but the sin North Carolina says that he can't do that. Dr. Singh founded Forsyth imaging center in 2017 to provide scans of patients could actually afford patients kept telling them this general surgery practice that they couldn't afford the price of scans in his area. I also that the prices weren't transparent patients can figure out their out-of-pocket cost upfront and are often hit by multiple bills in the mail. Months later, they were told they were going to have to pay for. Dr. Singh felt that was fundamentally unfair for patients so 2017. He founded Forsyth imaging center to provide you scans cheaper and more transparently than other providers willing to do since opening the center, Dr. Singh has successfully acquired all the equipment he needs to provide the scans except for one piece of equipment is allowed to have an x-ray machine a lot of ultrasound machines even allowed to have a CT scanner. What is not allowed to have and what North Carolina bans them from having is an MRI scanner, North Carolina's certificate of need law says that Dr. Singh can't purchase an MRI scan to provide his hands. Unless state planners in Raleigh have predetermined a need for that scanner in his area based on things like the number of scanners are in operation in the number of scans or scanners performed in 2018. The planners didn't project a need for new scanner. Dr. Singh couldn't apply for one another words, Dr. Singh is banned from getting an MRI scanner to provide scans, patients actually need, because the hospital down the street already has one dozen constitutional.

Windham says North Carolina law already addresses the issues targeted in this new lawsuit in North Carolina 1973, the Supreme Court struck down a previous version of the con law on exactly these grounds, but in 1978, the Gen. assembly reenacted that law despite the Supreme Court's decision to qualify for federal funding.

Dr. Singh is here today once again to strike down the con law teaming up with the Institute for Justice to vindicate his right to provide safe, quality, affordable imaging services for patients who need them in North Carolina. Plaintiff Dr. Ginger Singh of Winston-Salem shares his story I was born. It is in India over the side in India and I grew up low and middle class or poor family.

I didn't have much been here surgeon any artistic footer, long time into a digital surgery and it G.I. cancer surgery in my course of mark left, have seen a lot of patients who needs a lot of scanning CT scan and MRI and to when the come to my office sometime.

The quiet Dr. Dimmick 1500 $2000 down up in emergency room in a $10,000 bill says he decided to act after facing a large bill for his own medical procedure. My goal in my life is to provide the community care, affordable care as much as anyone living in the country regardless of the race, religion, personality of income level should be able to afford and get all the healthcare they need by call law. We had actually prohibiting that we are raising the prices inflating them artificially if we have more competition.

If you can provide more care by loading the prices. That was my goal. That's the voice of Dr. Gendreau Singh Winston-Salem.

He's the plaintiff in a new lawsuit challenging North Carolina's certificate of need law. He also address the impact of con laws on healthcare transparency. If you call different imaging centers or hospital and you asked for anything for any price. A festival that will give you pricing so you won't know how much is your bill until you get there and then even if you pay upfront then multiply best to keep coming off for Mike weeks and months. You know then maybe facility fee.

There may be a radiologist fee on their lives.

Some of the hidden boat which you want to know when you call different places and you're lucky if you get past that almost the same ballpark like you know somebody will say we would do it for $202,000.07 before $1900.

Somebody would say four $2100 but they're not the bottom prize. My goal for me to get this thing is so I can bring the prices down. Nobody does them for fluffernutter like what we all for certificates of need are based on calculations from a centralized state government agency, the process is called need determination attorney Rene Flaherty questions the process need determination it's determined by the state net medical facilities plan and it's a very kind of them secure formula that they use and their job to keep track of how many MRIs are out there how many kinds are out there and based on what we looked into and the numbers it doesn't even seem like they do a good job that and so you know this need determination is obviously not based on reality. Because you got patients were coming to Dr. Singh say that they need the services and so the seatbelt medical facilities plan is divorced from that reality.

Josh Windham of the Institute for Justice challenges one of the reasons advocates support certificate of need restrictions. The goal of con laws is to keep things even keel writing for the government to kind of make sure things are stable. I mean even if that was the original justification for con laws that has been the reality since his laws a bit and the fact the federal government repealed its original incentive for states to adopt, was in 1986. Since then multiple states have repealed their own con laws and in the states, including California, including Texas.

This guy hasn't fallen five things have gotten a lot better prices have gone down in patients had more access to services of the real world example provided by states like California and Texas belies the original theory for commas, critics say, hospitals and other large-scale healthcare providers often use the con process to stifle competition Windham address that issue. Even though Dr. Singh hasn't received direct pressure from any hospital or group is literally true to your question, that he can't get an MRI scanner because the hospital down the street has multiple so it's and it's a one-to-one ratio right if not centered on the street lost a scanner gave him one of his scanners all of a sudden Dr. Singh would be able to get a scanner or lease apply for a scanner so it's I mean it is very much depended on who is already an incumbent provider whether or not a new provider come to the market. You know it can 73 when the Supreme Court struck down the previous con law. It is so nice on exactly these grounds right it did so because it law, all he did was protect incumbent providers about providing any other benefits to patients is us are expecting the Supreme Court to do the same thing here. Windham says the lawsuit challenges North Carolina's certificate of the law on multiple grounds for claims regarding antimonopoly claim regarding exclusive emoluments claim to substantive due process claim, and we got equal protection claim, but the basic thread running through all of our claims is that all this law does is protect established providers in competition and exclude people who want to enter the market to provide services for patients. Now there's no reason for that. All it does is protect established providers in competition it doesn't provide greater access to care key prices lower any of that.

So that is the core of our antimonopoly claim to sort of run through all of her other claims. That's Josh Windham, one of the Institute for Justice attorneys working with Winston-Salem surgeon Dr. Gendreau Singh sings challenging North Carolina's certificate of need restrictions will perturb more Carolina journal radio in a moment. If you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina It's one-stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina

You'll find links to John Locke foundation blocks on the days news Carolina reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James Dean Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina that's North Carolina spelled out North Carolina Try it today. North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John lock foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina. Journal follow us on Twitter at John lock in the sea and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal.

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Welcome back Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca among the many tributes to the late US Sen. John McCain was one that you might not of expected McCain was a Republican. The GOP nominated him for president 10 years ago, but he drew praise on the state Senate floor from a Democrat Sen. Erica Smith, a great American hero Sen. John McCain, the third passed away. I was most impressed with McCain as he took the difficult position to stand farm to advocate for right whether it is from the right, whether it was from the lab. He challenged his colleagues with words following Charlottesville riots last year words he said there is nothing in their hatred and racism that can match the strength of a nation conceived in liberty and comprising 323 million souls of different origins and opinions who are under the law. We are a country that led the free world today. To me, passes them and dispatched communism to the ash heap of history. We are the supreme power that organize not an empire but in international order of three independent nations that has liberated more people from poverty and tyranny.

Think anyone thought possible and I will and with this, we seem to be convinced that majorities exist to impose their will with you concessions and that minorities exist to prevent the party in power from doing anything important. That's not how we were meant to govern our entire system of government with checks and balances is a bicameral Congress's protections of the rights of the minority was designed for compromise is seldom works smoothly or speedily. It was never expected to what it does require pragmatic problem-solving from even the most passionate partisans relies on compromise between opposing sides to protect the interests that we share. We can fight like hell for ideas to prevail, that we have to respect each other or at least respect the fact that we need each other.

Smith closed her remarks with a message for state Senate colleagues on both sides of the aisle, may his words from last year inspire us today to do better to govern together as we were elected to do, that's North Carolina state Sen. Erica Smith, a Democrat, praising the late Republican US Sen. and presidential candidate John McCain will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet.

And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with us.

Listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation. Welcome back Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca monuments on college and university campuses are facing increased scrutiny scrutiny is raising concerns for our next guest, Shannon Watkins is policy associate at the James G. Martin Center for academic renewal and she recently wrote a column on this topic, titled monumental question.

Welcome to the program so first of all, this is something that we have been seeing across the country is that more and more students on college campuses are taking a look around and seeing these monuments and asking whether they should still be standing as a something that we have been seeing nationwide.

We hadn't seen this nationwide.

Always been pockets of protesters complaining about one kind of monument or another on college campuses.

There really wasn't uptake last summer after the incident in Charlottesville. Since then there was a national campaign on campuses to either take down our mostly take down or vandalize controversial monuments. No part of this is Confederate related monuments. Limited to just Confederate is not limited to just confederates. In fact, in the wake of that incident last August, I believe there are several monuments of Lincoln princes that were vandalized.

In California there was a mission priest whose statue was vandalized in Louisiana St. Joan of arc statue who she was a French woman I was handling so it really does is not limited to Confederate statutes really running the gamut. One of the reasons for your column is the fact that there is an example of this taking place right in our own backyard in Duke University. Tell us about what's happening right well subject was part of the initial wake response after Charlottesville Piatt having a swift removal of the statue of Robert E Lee from teeth and the entrance of Duke Chapel.

Since then, students, staff and faculty have assembled to create a report that they named activating history for Justice at Duke. I believe in the purpose of that report was to document the locations of what they deem white supremacist statues on campus and when they say white supremacist statues on campus. What are they talking about.

It's not limited to Confederate soldiers.

We know because Dave Dave London Thomas Jefferson into that category.

So it's hard to say exactly they do state count Jefferson is part of that category because he did own slaves, but I believe the wider issue is that there is a higher percentage of monuments or memorials that represent white men in general.

So the issue of identity seems to be more mental know as you have been looking into this and what this group is up to know that one of the reasons for writing the column is to draw attention to this and raise some concerns. What about this issue of people. It Duke or at other schools were looking at these monuments and say these are for white supremacists or the usurper monuments with concerns about what about that process raises a red flag for you will several so that the first question was, especially when they start taking on Thomas Jefferson as part of this campaign of past Duke officials efforts to uphold white supremacy that troubles me because there's so much about Thomas Jefferson and his role in higher education and in the founding of this country that I think any student any learner pursuer of knowledge should somehow able to relate to and to the notion that he's just for white men who don't care about other people is very troublesome to me now, you mentioned Jefferson and I think a lot of people would agree with that. Are there any other figures either on the Duke campus or elsewhere that that that you seem targeted that that make you say when. But that doesn't make sense when there is another there's a southern poet Sydney linear who is also part of the three statues that run the one side of Duke Chapel. I believe he was the soldier down the Confederacy that there are other members of the Deke family, who for one reason or another finds that category whether if they owned a slave in the past or the exploited people. As a result of building the University that we are chatting with Shannon Watkins. She is policy associate at the James G. Martin Center for academic renewal recently wrote this column titled monumental question. You mentioned that this group it Duke is documenting the statues we know what the group wants to do about them. But it is a little bit ambiguous.

I think they made a video to complement the report and the students giving the tour in the video says that there there have been efforts to remove the statues and much more work needs to be done, which leads one to think that they're not done yet. And in trying to rectify the past that they deem to be racist, so that's not clear from your vantage point. Is there any compelling reason to have these statues removed, and if not is there something that I'll be done either just to clarify the record order to get people talking about the statues will should we be doing question and I'm not going to say 100% yes that they always should stay on campus. I think you really have to take it on a case-by-case bait case by case basis. I personally, I think a better way to approach this issue is to help to reconcile with history be recontextualizing the statue that can be easily done by adding a plaque to explain the statues history troublesome things that an individual may might have been a part of hands, and I definitely encourage students to learn about those historical figures.

Another possible effort that can be done and is been done at UNC Chapel Hill stick at another statute to help tell a fuller story of history. I think that's I think that's reasonable. It's really adding to the record rather than taking something away right which I should add a large part of this report it Duke is to add new statutes.

I take issue with the reasoning behind why they want statues so that Duke is the idea takes him down and replace them with others or keep the ones that they have and then add some others to add to the mix. For now, is this is the start I believe of an effort they want three names in buildings first that they really that large part of the campaign is to add new statutes. The criteria that they are using the kids, who do you decide to memorialize on campus, there criteria is backed by an ideology that I think undermines the purpose of higher education, that being that students must see their racial or gender identity, memorialized on campus in order to feel at this.

I believe there are more fundamental principles that all students should be able to aspire to as learners. Shannon Watkins policy associate at the James G Martin Center for academic renewal. Thanks much for joining us thinking will have more on Carolina journal radio commitment to truth and transparency in government. That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't in our reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them.

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Call 1866 JL FINF0 for your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez. It's called the accountable capitalism, act, and it's a bill championed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren, leftist United States Sen. from Massachusetts with presidential aspirations.

The elements of Sen. Warren's plan would turn capitalism on its head, which is why we should understand that it's that is why our next guest is here to talk about it. Dr. Roy Coronado's Senior economist for the John Locke foundation. He joins us now Roy, welcome back. Let's talk over some of the main elements of Sen. Warren's a bill.

First of all, it would create an office of United States corporations reaction to that along year for someone to say something about the accountable capitalism. Of course, capitalism is accountable. They just don't like who is accountable to this accountable to consumers. In what way. Well, you cannot be a successful business and let Jesus satisfy customers. People who stop doing that stop that is Adam Smith you stop doing that let you stop being accountable to consumers who were not mentioned at all. Elizabeth warns Bill she cares not a whit about consumers. By the way leisure accountable could to consumers as a business under capitalism. You die and that's what Elizabeth Warren really doesn't like about capitals not is not accountable is not accountable to a left-wing agenda and that's what she's concerned about this.

Office of United States states, corporations would be pretty fascinating under her bill.

People are corporations would be required.

Any company with revenue over $1 billion to obtain a federal charter and presumably somehow register with the office of United States corporations. That's interesting any business okay so not just corporations any counsel privately held businesses right which is plenty of that are worth $1 billion or more would essentially now come under rules of like a corporation. They want that big corporations already in the sense to have a charter from the government is you have to bit, not a privately held businesses with over billion dollars and that won't last long will essentially have to have to come under government control and there's other aspects of this in terms of Borden all that sort of thing, but why would you want to do that because you want government control right.

I mean it's it's it's pretty obvious it's a way to reach him and have her decisions and shelter.

She uses her decisions right. People were going to be appointing these people are good guys in her view right not not Donald Trump is a lot that probably want to keep the way it is another element according to the reporting on her bill is this it would bind company directors to vote consider the interests of all corporate stakeholders, including employees, customers, shareholders, and the communities in which the company operates.

Roy is what any business does already in their business plan. Their mission together with the word stakeholders is strange. What she means is you to be accountable to anyone she thinks it should have control over the business right or whose decisions are going to if these are not stakeholders right the millions and millions of millions of people who own stock in these businesses are stakeholders right it's a very fuzzy term that you should typically demean special interest groups.

And that's what she means. Right. She bit dates she wanted to be accountable to different special interest group environmentalists Ray spacers good down the line right. These are the people that she wants accountable to end so you use this word stakeholders and who's not included. Again, the consumer notice she doesn't mention the consumers being a stakeholder in these businesses and that's what'll that's who will suffer because when the business becomes accountable to outside interests.

Non-shareholders because when you're accounted to be accountable to shareholders are a prophet you have to be accountable to consumers. You stop being accountable to your customers and that's was going to really suffer through all interesting that you bring up the issue of shareholders. I want to read to you a quote from Sen. Warren. This is from an op-ed that she reportedly wrote in the Wall Street Journal, and she talks about the issue of how much American companies are sending of their earnings to shareholders with which she thinks this is a problem and she says it.

In the early 1980s. Or she writes that large American company sent less than half their earnings to shareholders spending the rest on their employees and other priorities. But she writes between 2007 and 2016 large American companies dedicated 93% of their earnings to shareholders.

I don't know if that's the truth actual statistic. I mean she's used very bad numbers in the past for a lot of things so book us. Assuming that's true. Notice 2007 2016.

During the Obama years. In other words, she's complaining that during Obama years corporations gave more to shareholders. First of all, I am not sure why that's a problem.

The let let's notice that right before that the stock market took a huge crash. It started to come back during those years. So you would expect that shareholders would get a larger portion of profits, but I I I it's fine with me. I don't. I'm not sure what what what that means or what the point is that she's making other than the shareholders and look let's look at who shareholders are, she's complaining that pension holders people who who have 401(k)s that state workers whose money are in pension funds that are heavily invested in the in the stock market and good down the list.

Shareholders are you and I and and and and run-of-the-mill people you're anybody who has a pension fund of 401(k)s any kind of retirement plan is a shareholder she's complaining that those people are now getting too much money from the corporations while you write her bill also would evidently require that 40% of a chartered company's directors be selected by employees if she obviously she wants a force that I would also hope that that then employees will have their fortunes go up and down in terms of profits and losses of businesses. If that's true, very interesting. If they are going to if they're going to have that kind of power, then, that you also want to give you have them have this this be a real stakeholder right, and if corporate profits go up they benefit if they go down, they lose just like shareholders do who actually do pick who currently pick the boards of directors think that's a really interesting point because he forgot to be all land in terms of being able to influence the decisions of what happens with the business plan and and profits and presumably would help a business making privates then shouldn't you be in on the responsibility.

I think she would want that because I think then there minute employees will pick about the same people who shareholders picking because employees fortunes are tied into corporate profits and that she doesn't really want Roy, one other issue I want to get to hear in our interview today is that her bill would also look at statutory restrictions on how executive compensation can be structured with the implication, I think I think that's a fair characterization that key executives in companies are making too much money yeah and that's good. That's been a song that the left has been singing for ever, we need to Executive compensation. Of course, when you do that you Executive competency also been talking with Dr. Roy Coronado. He is Senior economist for the John Locke foundation, my pleasure.

That's all the time we have for the program this week.

Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez. Hope you join us again next week for more Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John learn more about the John Locke foundation including donations support programs, Carolina journal radio sending email to development. John 1:66 JL left info 166-553-4636 airline journal radio nation airline is maintaining Carolina run system. All opinions expressed on this program nearly formation about Michelle or other programs and services in the John foundation missing John not very many like to thank our wonderful radio across North Carolina and are sponsored Carolina journal radio again

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