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Carolina Journal Radio No. 801: Ballot set with N.C. election lawsuits resolved for now

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
September 24, 2018 12:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 801: Ballot set with N.C. election lawsuits resolved for now

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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September 24, 2018 12:00 am

With legal battles over congressional redistricting and state constitutional amendments resolved – for now – North Carolina’s election ballot is now set for November. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, discusses the key issues voters will be addressing in this so-called “blue moon” election with no presidential, gubernatorial, or U.S. Senate race. Critics of school voucher programs often point to history. They say vouchers arose from segregationists’ efforts to fight school integration. Phillip Magness, senior research fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research, says the actual history is much more complicated. Magness explains that the earliest supporters of school vouchers often believed they would help fight the negative impact of segregated public school systems. A new digital tool is giving members of the UNC Board of Governors quick access to valuable data about the system’s schools. During a recent discussion about the new “dashboard,” board members debated the value of relying more heavily on data to guide board decisions. The N.C. General Assembly is setting up a new committee to examine the details of a $58 million fund set up in connection with the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. Sen. Paul Newton, R-Cabarrus, explained in a recent committee meeting why lawmakers want to examine Gov. Roy Cooper’s role in establishing the fund. Kristi Jones, Cooper’s chief of staff, questioned lawmakers’ actions. You’ll hear highlights from their remarks. A national education group claims that North Carolina’s public school math scores have lagged because the state dropped its support of Common Core academic standards. Terry Stoops, John Locke Foundation vice president for research and resident scholar, says the argument is wrong. Stoops corrects the record. He explains why North Carolina’s math standards still have ties to the controversial Common Core.

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From Cherokee to current tack and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez, I will explore some major issues affecting our state.

Some critics point to history when they take aim at school vouchers but will check with an expert who says that history is more complicated than the critics want to admit leaders of the University of North Carolina system have a new tool to keep track of key data points.

Your debate about the usefulness of compiling all that data.

North Carolina lawmakers have set up a new committee to investigate a controversial fund was set up in connection with the Atlantic coast pipeline.

Learn why plus will explain why a national group is wrong to tie lagging North Carolina math scores to the state's rejection of common core. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline hard to believe but the midterm election is less than two months away now. If you are a bit confused about who and what will appear on your November ballot. You are not alone.

Carolina journals of Rick Anderson is here you and the confusion we help anyway over the legal battles that have been affecting what will actually appear on the November ballot courses editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal which has been reporting literally every step of the way on all of these lawsuits that Rick went back to the show will first of all is you and I are talking at this point that we believe that the printing of the ballots are going forward that anything that was going to be resolved or needed to be resolved for this election is resolved.

As far as we know there's one potential glitch still having to do with the Constitution party's presence on the ballot in some issues or federal court but that looks like this pretty much evaporated.

So everything else looks like it's move forward. It looks as if all the ballots can be designed, proved, printed, distributed, so perhaps will will hit the September 22 deadline which is supposed to be the date that by which the ballots are ready and are available to be sent to absentee voters, especially military people living overseas who are now the balance course are important. Every single election cycle. For obvious reasons. A lot of people more and more Rick are trying to go to their County election website see a sample ballot and being informed and prepared motor so that's a good thing but this election cycle is been so tough because of a number of legal battles going on, let's talk about a couple of them that have just been back and forth, back and forth. First of all, there had been a question over North Carolina's 13 congressional districts and literally over which person could be on the ballot from which district gives little insight into that one will that lawsuit now is yet to be resolved.

If you will, but it's been put on hold until after the election. There are number of loss parties filing lawsuits challenging constitutionality of those districts claiming that they were unconstitutional racial gerrymander's so far the courts have essentially gone along with that argument, but also have said that because the timing of the various lawsuits in the end of the time needed for resolution of the lawsuit.

It was too late to do anything about them. For this current election cycle. So what the very likely thing to happen is going to be the US Supreme Court returns for its October session. It will hear challenge this proposed this before a three judge panel right now claiming the districts are unconstitutional because they were racially gerrymandered and then deciding what the remedy should be and that of course because this the arguments will be to be heard until October. They won't affect anything dealing with this current election, but it's a fairly good bet that were going to have new congressional districts for the 2020 cycle Rick from Carolina journals reporting on this issue, which by the way, you can find folks to Carolina. it has been that the Supreme Court has up to this point ruled that you cannot base districts on race that is unconstitutional. The question now seems to be the issue of how their drawn in terms of partisan advantage. And that is been in the past right. It is been so important which party the major parties, Republicans or Democrats were to win the election, which begins a new 10 year period of election districts right. The issue is as your coach coast Muskoka iPhone the past as it this there is such a thing as a a racial gerrymander which are growing districts unfairly based on race every district. Drawing gerrymandering is is partisan, partisan gerrymandering is a bit of an oxymoron is a bit of a duplicate of statement with the courts have never actually determined what if at some level districts can be drawn with too much partisan advantage in mind, and the courts have over the past couple of decades shown some interest in possibly determining if there were some magic formula that could determine how much partisanship is too much in the drawing of district lines. The courts haven't done yet. They may do it this forthcoming term, or they may still say you know what district drawing is an inherently political process and something the courts can can't enter into, so long as there your body by such principles. One person one vote. They're not using race or gender or income, or other source of unconstitutional basic your rights to draw districts but that the. The argument is made quite often is that the 1990s and 2000s Republicans were winning the total statewide vote for the general assembly, but Democrats were having a very disproportionate advantage in the way the districts were brought had disproportionate representation and after 2010. The numbers flipped end Democrats were making the same from arguments about Republicans, although they give the courts have never said that to but that there such a thing as too much partisanship district that is the limiting question. So, just to summarize here in terms of this November's midterm election. We know were using the current map site for North Carolina's 13 congressional districts so that is resolved for this election may change later depending on court rulings, but for now we know who we the candidates are for those districts. Rick also for the November election, there has been a lot of wrangling over potential for six constitutional amendments to appear on the ballot.

Voters would give an up or down vote to each of those six are six going to appear on the ballot for good health. All six there. We have now finally have all the challenges resolved and of the six there are there really to get a very straightforward and are not controversial as far as the boot with the language that was used for the amendments themselves, issues themselves are very contentious, but the ballot measures themselves are one of those is the constitutional right to hunt and fish, which is now a statutory right, but not a constitutional right and the second is a reduction in the On the state income tax level currently set of the Constitution at 10%. This amendment would reduce it to 7%. Now though the language of those amendments is is now never was very controversial but the question again was whether or not they should appear on the ballot in the challenges about whether the legislature was actually able to do that.

That's all been resolved now. There are four others for other constitutional amendment in one of them has gotten a particularly amount of media coverage that has to do with requiring a photo ID to vote yes that's right, something that the courts federally have scrutinized very strongly over the years said there are some states in which it is still get unconstitutional to require an ID to vote because of the way that the idea itself is been structuring required by the various states and so that something that the controversy in part about this was the general so we did not specify what types of IDs would be allowed for people to vote and the counterargument which I find very compelling is that they shouldn't do that in the state constitution because the federal courts to rule something completely different. They could rule that certain types of ID are not allowed, and so therefore used a constitutional limit will be completely overturned or loose portions of it would why this works if voters say yes you ID should be required. The general symbol will come back and try to craft a law that makes those types of IDs consistent with the federal Constitution Rick victims rights also will be on the ballot in the form of a constitutional right victims rights currently are protected by the Constitution, but the the current amendment would give victims of crimes or survivors of crimes. Their families opportunity to have greater access to the courts. During every part of the proceedings of the law of illegal controversy dealing with the crime victims.

You can read all of Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief.

Thank you Rick. Same with this much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal in print each month and on the web each you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina journal radio in print on the air and on the web. You can find the information you welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Muskoka, some critics of school vouchers like to point to history.

They say the school choice movement evolved from efforts to fight integration of public schools. Our next guest is here to correct the record. Philip Magnus is visiting Assistant Prof. of economics at Berry College next drawing by trim so this really is something that you hear sometimes are people who oppose vouchers or school choice in general would wait a minute you look back to the 50s and 60s. This all started from people who wanted to fight the ruling in Brown versus Board of Education are the correct right so the issues much more complicated than that. Vouchers do emerge simultaneously with other people in the school system that takes place in the 50s and 60s on the integration as part of that but are also religious movements that are are trying to seek alternative so public education, but the big story here is the free market side and this Milton Friedman who was coming from the father of the more modern voucher movement Siu rights in order: 1955 sketches else of the theory behind vouchers why competition schools work and there's a footnote in the article that's often overlooked by people who make this argument in Friedman is explicit that he is an integrationist. He's a supporter of integrating the schools and he actually sees vouchers as a means to undermine and defeat and workaround segregation even goes on record as if the choice were only between the of forced segregation, which is based with status quo that they had and using government tools to mandate integration. He would be unequivocally in the latter category. What he sees vouchers as a a better mechanism to bring that about. So basically Friedman in his article stand entirely against this narrative that we've heard about our young choice. No dizzy go on in that article to explain why he thinks vouchers would work better right right so both in that article and some of his later work pico's book capitalism and freedom which comes out in the early 1960s. He develops an argument says that if you allow competition to occur between the schools you'll basically enter into a marketplace for education and he draws on the work of one of the students. Gary Becker's another future Nobel work by Gary Becker puts forth an economic model of why discrimination happens and he basically says in the long run discrimination is a very economically unprofitable mechanism. It's a you it's a tool that self excludes part of your customer base from it.

So Friedman's idea is that if you introduce choice in the education system over time integration will win out over segregation because it it opens up a broader market share to students to potential people that are competing to draw students into their schools. Yet on top of that you can make a moral case of moral suasion. Friedman says, is one of the great tools that we have two to bring about integrations we sees this as complementary to the voucher movement sounds as if it's one of these cases that we've seen in other areas of our economy, where free markets can help. Why better results than the government policy, even when the government policy is directed specifically toward integration that markets can can work better to achieve the single element say that's a big component of Friedman's argument says it on the notion of choice brings people over to the right side of the issue rather than using the force of a mandate, so he's trying to not only solve the problem of segregation, but do but bring the populace on board. He sees marketers a better mechanism to do that. That is the voice of Philip Magnus. He is visiting Assistant Prof. of economics at Berry College now what you're talking about is so different than the narrative we hear from some of the critics wises not better now. Well part of it is just a deficit in archival research. I've been digging into this issue pretty heavily for the past year or so and one of the discoveries I made came out of Charlottesville, Virginia 1959.

There's actually an anti-voucher coalition that emerges around some members of the school board and in Charlottesville and the anti-voucher coalition teams up with the segregationists because they believe that the vouchers are going to undermine this institution are trying to maintain desperately clinging to. After the Brown decision and the whole idea was that the court should prohibit prohibited the local school board from forcibly segregating their school system so that's off the table. Now what they wanted to use backdoor segregation which that they did for two mechanisms you geographically zone the white and black students to different schools and then to prevent them from crossing over into different zones you have for very rigorous On enrollment that they can force the white schools and there's a local attorney in Charlottesville with an image on his battle Junior is the son of a former governor. One of the main litigants against the NAACP and all these integration suits and battle us is wait a minute.

If these vouchers pass if they come into existence white student some white students will leave the school facing integration, but that opens up seats. The black students could take so he sees vouchers, is convinced threat to the system. There there desperately trying to cling onto us a battles argument. Ashley takes hold the little bit later in the story of his Virginia does adopt a rudimentary tuition grant system in 1959 have to do it on race neutral terms that even of the raw are some mixed motives come in from segregation, but the big story that happens there is after the of the system comes in the play, they start seeing who's using the vouchers and it's not white students fleeing integrating schools and students of all colors that are seeking better schools seeking to improve school system, whether public or private.

So when they start doing statistical analysis of the fund that most people are using this voucher system are not using it for segregationist purposes. So this upsets the teachers union, which is still segregated at the time and you got as late as 1964 the Virginia educators Association is taking a stance in favor of putting segregationist strictures on the voucher program because I think it's taking their money away as you present this information to people who believe the other narrative narrative that it's the segregationists who wanted the vouchers are people surprised that there is a bit of incredulity, almost because this narrative become so ingrained on the other side. But you know the evidence is fairly overwhelming when you start seeing it printed in the teachers union journals. Their in-house journals and letters on their statements to the press where they are siding in favor of segregationist strictures on the voucher system so it is hard to work around that, from an evidentiary front note is still a complicated story. Segregation is only one of many different components is going into what is going out in terms about your politics, but I'm I view my role Skinner bringing that complexity to the story dismissed by this this very simplified political narrative in the brief time that we have left. Once people hear this real story. Do you think that will help boost support for this notion of vouchers as a way to help improve education. Overall I think it brings some more evidence to bear. It's also consistent with the empirical results of what were seeing from rudimentary voucher systems in action and they do tend to break down barriers so of the statistical studies that have been done a voucher system so the performance else alternative schools.

Charter schools, you find that in a de facto segregation that previously existed just by people live breaks down when you start introducing choice into that equation was a very interesting story. Very interesting history that was the voice of Philip Magnus visiting Assistant Prof. of economics at Berry College. Thanks for joining us sexy and reverent love on Carolina journal radio just a moment.

If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina it's one stop shopping for North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James G Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the sabotage Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina that's North Carolina spelled out North Carolina Try it today. North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John lock foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John lock foundation like Carolina. Journal follow us on Twitter at John lock in the sea and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal.

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So now not only will you enjoy what you buy will also support freedom. Don't forget log on to today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got UNC's board of governors recently reviewed a new dashboard.

It contains multiple data points that are designed to help the governors judge how well you would see campuses are performing Board Chairman Harry Smith likes what he sees so far this is so close that one so you know, we can take a stool and continued to fix, but expand upon it and and take into as much depth and detail as you will. And so you this is not a gotcha told us a little bit of Star Trek accountability, transparency is also included upright will clearly define which schools were really doing great things and operations running the business and focused on success and obligate will also clearly show that if we have a school that is incurred. A challenge we get a downward trend in Horsley and some of those you know what school all their and so this is a mechanism to help us be proactive. What I've seen since of veneers is a heck of a lot of board member Bob Araujo would like to see more information about you would see graduates and jobs. If success is defined as educating and getting people employed at one point we probably need to measure what are we just doing when they get out of this place for five or six years, whether they are employed and maybe at what level.

Board member Joe not remind colleagues that jobs are the only way to gauge how well you would see campuses are performing. Everyone needs a job when they get out of college understand that but that is not the only measure of success that I have said before, the success of our university system in my opinion can't really be measured until the generation passes and if the culture is still standing. What are you one of the great things our universities do not only is to equip you for our students to make a living, but it also equips them to perpetuate and defend our civilization and culture. And as we see if we get to focus just on working and making money and so forth in the culture dissolves them a couple generations. All of our efforts have been for naught. So how does one make that point.

It's not merely employment, earnings, and so forth.

But see the perpetuation of our morality, our character, our courage, and the defense of our civilization against the encroachments of barbarian is will to you by most parents are about the job knowledge is that you would see board of governors Chairman Harry Smith, responding to comments from colleague Joe not all of these comments responded to a new dashboard.

It's designed to highlight useful data connected to the UNC system will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges the softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with S.

Listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock test which you need to stay informed and stay entertain both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation.

Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got state lawmakers are raising new questions about Gov. Roy Cooper, Republican Sen. Paul Newton of Cabarrus County made a presentation to a key legislative committee.

I'm here today to address the question of whether there is sufficient evidence for this commission to form a subcommittee to further investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the governors creation of a $57.8 million discretionary fund in connection with the issuance of an essential environmental permit needed to build the Atlantic coast pipeline Nugent questions the language in a memorandum of understanding or MOU. Gov. had this MOU drafted in a manner to provide the governor with direct control over $57.8 million fund that some have referred to as a slush fund article 5, section 7 of the state constitution states that quote no money shall be drawn from the state treasury and, in consequence of appropriations made by law and an accurate account of those receipts and expenditures of state funds shall be pub published annually under the cuff of the Constitution, the governor does not raise or appropriate funds legislature dollars.

One day later sums January 24 MOU was signed one day later, on January 26. The ACP partners were issued their long-delayed and critical for one water quality permit by DEQ that raise questions immediately about the relationship between this discretionary fund and the issuance of the water quality permit. There was for some a perception of pay to play.

Why set up a special legislative study group. Newton says the governor refuses to answer key questions the governor refused to address questions regarding the apparently apparently unconstitutional nature of the MOU the governor refused to explain his position that he is $57.8 million discretionary fund was a quote voluntary contribution" from the ACP partners.

The governor refused to address questions regarding the ethical implications of accepting a voluntary contribution from the ACP in the form of a $57.8 million discretionary fund that under the terms of the MOU, he had direct control over while his Department of environmental quality was reviewing the permit application that the ACP partners desperately needed, adding to the confusion, where the conflicting statements that were being made about the $57.8 million fund while the governor called it a voluntary contribution representative Harrison said in media interviews that it was a required element to get the water quality permit and possibly as required by the federal not migratory Bird act, at least one ACP partners of the MOU was required by the firm.

That's State Sen. Paul Newton explaining why the Gen. assembly is seeking more information about a $50 million fund set up in connection with the Atlantic coast pipeline Newton reminded colleagues about steps they've already taken in connection with the fund session lot 2018 two Gen. assembly redirected the 57.8 million from Gov. Cooper's discretionary fund to schools in the counties would be impacted by the ACP local educational officials in these rural counties enthusiastically supported this Gov. Cooper and Democratic leadership strongly objected to using 57.8 million for schools in the rural counties impacted by the ACP in his press conference on February 14. Gov. Cooper said that funding schools with a 57.8 million was a quote bad provision" and a quote power grab." And that this shift in fundie funding somehow imperiled the agreement. Furthermore, if every 14th governor reiterated that leaving the money under his control and his discretionary fund was a quote good idea governor and Democratic leadership repeatedly stated session lot 2018 two jeopardized 57.8 million, and that the ACP partners may refuse to provide the funding. I am not aware of any ACP partner is expressed hesitation or concerns about funding the 57.8 million for schools in the impacted counties.

Newton cited more evidence involving the way the Atlantic coast pipeline fund came together on December 13, 2017, December 13, the ACP partners proposed provide MOU funding to the state of North Carolina, not to the governor but to the state of North Carolina for mitigation of forest habitat open space lands water bodies natural resources funding was to be managed not by the governor but by the director of wildlife resources commission. An important note here in my personal opinion, had the governor signed the back draft of the MOU you we would not be here talking about this today, but between December 13, 2017 and January 19, 2018. The governor's office modified and amended four different drafts of the MOU. Apparently at the governor's insistence, the final MOU directed $57.8 million into a fund under the direct control of Gov. Cooper and one of the whereas clauses assigned MOU stated that quote the governor through his agents and assigns, etc. has the authority to direct the disbursement of funds contemplated in the memorandum of understanding by what authority did Gov. Cooper believe he had the right to obtain these funds and retain nearly unfettered discretion over how to appropriate the funds Nugent wrapped up his presentation by explaining the key reason for seeking answers to unanswered questions surrounding the Atlantic coast pipeline fund.

We need to assure current and prospective business leaders that there is no pay to play in North Carolina. If you have met all rules, regulations, and laws associated with any permit of any kind whatsoever in our state, you've met the requirements that issue should permit shoot should be issued, and you should get that permit there should be no concern on any business leaders part that you will then be asked for a voluntary or involuntary cash contribution after having met the requirements for that program.

Gov. Cooper's Chief of Staff Christie Jones took issue with Newton's presentation.

The idea was created to have this fund that would ensure counties were impacted by the Atlantic coast pipeline to get that access to natural gas and actually just have the hope of creating jobs in eastern North Carolina.

Mind you permitting love and always he is done separately by the Department of environmental quality is no secrecy in the executive branch. We now the fun we it was always intended to benefit eastern North Carolina and it's really unbelievable that you would even imply otherwise in the executive branch. We have stringent ethical conflict of interest law and other policies and procedures improve in place to handle all of these types of issues and despite some efforts to make myth about anything other than economic development.

The frivolous ethics complaint that was filed was quickly dismissed so many interactions have happened between the governor's office in the Gen. assembly. Over the last six months so many interactions have to tell you I was quite shocked and surprised when I found this to be the topic of today there are so many other things we could be talking about today and I urge you not to let politics get in the way of progress.

That's Christie Jones, Chief of Staff for Gov. Roy Cooper. She's responding to news that the Gen. assembly plans to investigate circumstances surrounding a $50 million fund created in connection with the Atlantic coast pipeline will return with North Carolina drought radio in a moment a commitment to truth and transparency in government. That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't in our reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them. Our monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month.

Our online daily news site Carolina has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more. The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you. Call 1866 JL FINF0 for your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez state test scores show performance in mathematics is essentially now that's a concern for obvious reasons, but particularly since supporters of the common core standards and believe that the adoption of the common core framework would lead to higher achievement in North Carolina students Dr. Terry stoops is here to talk about the challenge. North Carolina faces going forward and my revision to those common core math standards that are set to begin this year. He of course is vice president for research. The director of education studies for the John lock foundation Terry welcome back. Thank you, when I saw your analysis of the recently released state test scores and saw that math scores were flat that was of particular concern for me because all I hear about it and see so much is the issue of jobs going forward in the stem fields. One of which would be mathematics, so we should really be taking a look at that, should we not absolutely. And when you look at the history of mass course in North Carolina you see some very interesting things happen so 2019 92 and around 2009, 2011 we had incredible creases increases a mask in North Carolina. Then something happened around 2009, 2011 that led to basically a flatlining for math scores and it's a trend that we've seen over the last few years. In particular, on state tests.

But if we look at the national test such as the national assessment of educational progress.

We saw that we made great progress in mathematics instruction North Carolina Bennett flatlined.

So that's really the larger concern here is first what led to those great increases in throughout the 90s and early 2000's and math performance and then what of late has led to such a stagnation in state test score performance on mathematics and test any ideas about what the answer to that question will of course I that way because I had an area in 2010 North Carolina adopted the common state standards in math and English language arts, and I think that had a large role in the stagnation that we seen of late in our math scores now standards are basically what the teachers all the essential ingredients that the teachers need to have in their curriculum at each grade level. So of course standards have a very large role in determining what students learn at each grade. It is whether you look at state tests or national nape tests, you see the same result that since around 2009, 2011 a stagnation in our state testing performance on mathematics and the one thing the large thing. The big thing that happened them was a large-scale change in the way we teach math via the adoption of the common core State standards sets interesting, because you're saying the change was in the way we teach it so for someone like me is not a teacher and education expert like you are. I'm trying to figure out is it that kids are being taught. Things are not being taught things they need to know, or is it just that the approach has changed and are simply not absorbing that information like they used while the approaches deftly changed. I saw this as is apparent more than as a policy analyst because you started to see the homework that my children were bringing home that really didn't make any sense. The required work writing about math and actually doing math less emphasis on mastering certain skills through repetition and practice and more emphasis in basically trying to learn how to court and court apply those skills. Even though students had mastered them so as a parent I saw the change in the way. Math was being taught of what students were expected to know and I think that artists are state and national test results bear the witness to the fact that the way that we taught math away. We were teaching math wasn't going to really give students what they needed to know known to perform well on tests but to master the concepts that math requires them to master a lot of parents and some educators have pushed back on common core standards. So what happened in North Carolina well the John Locke foundation was one of a handful of groups that did push back on the common core standards and winless legislators to put together a panel the academic standards review commission to assess our math and reading standard. So in 2014, the state put together a panel to look at our state math and English language arts standards and through 2015. They examined them. They had testimony they had experts come in to talk about the standards and it was in 2015 that there was a real fight about whether to get rid of the common core standards that we had adopted in 2010 were just modify them now. I wanted us to adopt a stronger set of standards. The Minnesota state math standards, which are widely considered to be the best in the nation, but unfortunately the review commission did not go that route said in 2015 were met recommended that the state revise the standards, the common core standards that they had in place and that's what they did over the next two years. That is going to be implemented starting this school year. That's right. So starting the 2018 19 school year. We will see the revised standards in place and if you look at the standard side-by-side.

You don't see huge differences in some places, they reformatted it so that it was easier to read and easier to understand.

Only a few places where the modifications large enough where they had to explain that some of the concepts that may or may be ton one grade we taught another grader may be taught in one part of the year as opposed to another part of the year someone talking about a large-scale departure from common core that is not what happened here. Instead, these were minor clarifications standards that essentially use the framework of the common core is a basis for our standards and then made clarifying changes so that teachers and parents could better understand how the standards will be implemented so if there are advocates who want to criticize North Carolina and say hey while their problem is that they got rid of the common core standards. That's not right that's all right at all, and in fact I did see that the Fordham Institute who were early common core proponents are saying that North Carolina ditch the common core and that's why they are raiding our new math standards is weak but that's absolutely not true. We ditch common core. We made changes to the common core standards that they were strong advocates for back in 2010. In fact, they were one of the strongest advocates for the common core standards and now that the common core hasn't borne the fruit that they thought it would meaning it didn't increase student performance.

Now they are starting to panel back up bits and look at states that are making small changes and criticize them for those changes. Remind us of how the common core standards came about.

This is really at that federal and national effort in many ways, yes, so there were some groups out of Washington DC. Manley chief Inc. and a couple others that developed these standards in 2009 work with the Obama administration to incentivize states to adopt these standards and what they basically said was if you adopt these standards then you have a greater chance of receiving a race to the top grants which of course a lot of states needed at that time because the great recession it hit so they were.

They were desperate for money.

North Carolina was one of the first to adopt the standards in 2010 with almost no public debate and very little media coverage except for the Carolina Journal of the adoption of the standards we adopted him in 2010 and subsequently were awarded a race of the top grants.

Lastly, Terry. This is gotta be a huge challenge for teachers yeah and it will take some time for them to get acquainted with the new standards and implement them. Even though there weren't drastic changes and read all of Terry stoops analysis of the and John Locke.for Terry stoops.

Thanks very much.

That's all the time we have for the program this week on behalf of Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez hope will join us again next week for more Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John learn more about the John Locke foundation including donations support programs Carolina Journal radio sending email to development John Locke call 1866 jail left info 166-553-4636 Journal radio foundation airline is maintaining Carolina run system. All opinions expressed on this program nearly commission about Michelle or other programs and services of the John foundation is not free any thing our wonderful radio cross North Carolina and are sponsored Carolina Journal radio listening.

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