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Carolina Journal Radio No. 805: Libertarian group assigns Cooper F grade for fiscal policies

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
October 22, 2018 12:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 805: Libertarian group assigns Cooper F grade for fiscal policies

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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October 22, 2018 12:00 am

Gov. Roy Cooper is one of just two Southern governors – and eight nationwide – to earn F grades in the libertarian Cato Institute’s latest “Fiscal Report Card for America’s Governors.” Cooper earns this failing grade despite the fact that other measures tout North Carolina’s strong economy and fiscal health. Chris Edwards, editor of Cato’s DownsizingGovernment.org, explains why North Carolina’s chief executive deserves such low marks. School choice faces a number of attacks from critics. One of the most common criticisms involves standards at private schools that see increased enrollment thanks to school voucher programs. Matthew Ladner, senior research fellow at the Charles Koch Institute, explains why those critiques miss the mark. As students headed back to class this fall, state education officials sought to reassure parents that public schools are taking steps to ensure safety. Superintendent of Public Instruction Mark Johnson led a recent news conference outlining safety measures designed to help prevent the incidents of school violence that have generated headlines across the country in recent years. A new state commission is focusing on the fair treatment of college student-athletes in North Carolina. During the group’s first meeting, some of the most compelling testimony came from lobbyist David Collins, a former UNC-Chapel Hill football player. Collins explained how a serious ankle injury during his senior year led to unexpected problems and lingering health concerns. State lawmakers are offering contrasting assessments of hog lagoons’ environmental performance during Hurricane Florence. Dan Way, Carolina Journal associate editor, reported those assessments from one of the General Assembly’s top agricultural advocates and one of its most vocal environmental watchdogs. Way shares highlights from his work.

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From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martin, is that I will explore some major issues affecting our state. This week's edition of Carolina Journal radio is brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system for North Carolinians. More information available at today. We.com school choice faces a number of attacks will hear from an expert who bets back. One of the most popular forms of criticism. It involves standards at private schools that participate in school voucher programs to give schools the state school superintendent highlights safety measures implemented for the new academic year turning to higher education. You hear from a former UNC football player as he testifies to a new commission it's studying the fair treatment of student athletes in North Carolina and will turn from education to the environment to address contrasting assessments in the general assembly of North Carolina's hog lagoons.

Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline governors are typically key players in charting the course for a state economy and it's taxing and spending practices, but a new fiscal report card on the nation's governors gives North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper and F Chris Edwards authored the report produced by the libertarian Cato Institute. He joins us now with a look at how the organization assessed a North Carolina's Gov. and the state fiscal practices Chris, welcome to Carolina Journal radio book so you assessed several different variables to arrive at these grades for all of the states governors give us a sense of what you looked at why I'm good based on whether Gov. or government Lord or what all go on school, North Carolina you going in the wrong direction from the port for all to increase the budget and you bought to give them a grade of the little grade report and in fact it's a curious set dynamic here North Carolina's you know Chris being that 10 Gov. Cooper, Democrat, time, and he makes his budget proposals but then he's also dealing with a Republican lead Gen. assembly which is shown much more fiscal restraint in taxing and spending policies here. I or my report.

I look at Gov. vetoes would North Carolina be no laughter. A big would be owed by the ability to overload him like count veto against them by contract. They went to a new New Mexico credit on the study because legislators giant Pikeville. My book a good thing to be exempt.

Think about going one in terms of Gov. Cooper you gave him and asked, and he is in the bottom eight I believe the governors of the country. Give us a sense of those governors who are right there with Gov. Cooper in not showing fiscal restraint were going to the country would be to view mood: left quote Gov. Brown or simply wanting to your inquiry. Even though you know the economy is doing really well and am looking for Washington state employee working repeatedly quote carbon can't even though I don't do good. Voted down the court for an organ Kate Brown want to impose a giant $3 billion a year, local time new tax on the amendment brimming low score tell us about the top you said Gov. Susanna Martinez's fat New Mexico is at the top who joins her really dumb. Great job through a bank that indicated on doing good and strong economic growth and the rain delay dear.

Also, the other a winner Henry McMaster Carolina program of North Dakota. Name a good job with domain."

God one in a long, redundant report cut block reform welfare spending, and frequently speak to the big government is the real hero of criticism. As we mentioned here in North Carolina, the political dynamics are our interesting sense of the governors, a Democrat, he's dealing with a Republican lead Gen. assembly. But despite the governor's view that he wants a much more robust role for government in North Carolinians lives the fiscal conservatives in the general assembly. Over the past few years have done some really incredible things. I just like to get your sense of what they've done building up number one. A very big more than $2 billion emergency rainy day fund also really keeping spending under control of the growth of spending showing some restraint there and then historic tax reform, and including, I'm ditching what was a tiered system of personal income tax rates going to one flat rate that is lower, gives your sense of that menu, so to speak of are that recipe of trying to keep North Carolinians at keeping more of what they earn. You know, I don't know I'm going spending five year looking at the 29.5 year the legislature overrode a small 3.9% goal will likely put it on one corporate between locations of getting one temple time keeping up the corporate tax rate down and being good for everyone. North Carolina because you will get more opening up there creating more job creating stronger economic growth for think of North Carolina going to you Chris. That's an interesting point about trying to attract and retain businesses in competing with other states here. I not only cross the country but in the southeast. You note the corporate tax rate reductions do CEOs also look at the personal income tax rate structure not only what the rates are, but essentially a whether or not the trajectory for the state is raising those rates are lowering them yet. For example, in your huge outflow of financial and food from the New York area, Connecticut, New York City and New Jersey to Florida with no individual income to want to read the owners of the financial law of Florida that they bought got hundreds of employees you like. They want more time for their employees so that you individual income to the location of the big multinational corporation knowing you don't wondered what look like you know that a great deal of the individual income tax comes into play when they think that they can move to date highly workers to their new facility.

They are thinking but individual well Chris it's a really fascinating report on the fiscal health of the country, states them produced by the Cato Institute where folks find this online. Chris.org employed on the homepage or you can Google my name to final report manager will go down. Government.org Cato menu article: government budget under control.

Chris Edwards is with the Cato Institute. He authored the report.

Chris, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your time with this much more Carolina Journal radio to come in just a moment.

This week's edition of Carolina Journal radio is brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Carolina working every day to transform the health system from both Carolinians more information available at today. We.com Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, friends, rivals, great American presidents. Their ideas still have great value today. You could hear those ideas. Monday, November 5. It's a special living history event in Raleigh. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams come to life in a debate on the future of the United States of America.

Taxes, trade, foreign threats, Jefferson and Adams dealt with them all though how shelter differences before a live audience. You could join them.

It's living history.

Monday, November 5 at 7 PM at the North Carolina Museum of natural sciences in Raleigh. Tickets are $10, five dollars for students like tickets online@johnlocke.org that's John Locke with any.org or call 1866 JL left info. Welcome back Carolina Journal radio I Muskoka opponents of school choice in North Carolina are attacking the curricula in private schools. They argue that opportunity scholarship vouchers are helping to send students to schools that will prepare them adequately for college-level coursework or certain careers. One person who is heard this argument before in other parts of the country is Matthew Ladner is senior research fellow at the Charles Coke Institute, thanks for joining us at me. So this is one of the more popular arguments right now gets the school voucher program in North Carolina the opportunity scholarship program that Havey's private schools are taking the students they just they just don't have good curricula.

We should not be sending tax dollars to these schools.

You have heard this in other attacks on private school choice and I have yeah it's a hot topic in Florida right now.

For instance you know of the I would say that the thing that people should be more focused on is not curricula but rather outcomes right and there is a lot of I don't see any other word to use, but prejudice frightens this prejudicial notion.

The private schools won't teach science right time for even seen news articles from foreign newspapers were people are talking about hillbilly silence and snake handling in all the stuff of theirs. One source of testing data that actually allows us to compare science scores for both private and public school students. Unfortunately, we can't get this at the state level.

We can get it at the regional level. So I have looked at the private school science scores in the American South compared to the public school scores and what you see is consistently is the private school students perform at a higher level on science and display higher levels of science achievement knowledge. The public school students. So it's really not a basis on which you want to deny families freedom and opportunity to choose a sort of school they want to send their child to widening the court hearing this argument. I think that the proponents of the you of parents being able to write their children to the school's best fit their needs make a lot of different arguments.

They come in different flavors in the end of the day.

There is an urge on some on the part of some people think that we ought to standardize the education of children that there ought to be. Everyone needs to be doing the same thing and then there are others of us who think that there should be variety and diversity education and that we should allow families to direct students to the best fit schools right that's not necessarily you know the best air quote school based on something like standardized test course right because people's needs are much more private. The not so you know them in the bottom line is that every bit of testing data that anyone could get their hands on on on tour in terms of science indicates the private schools are teaching science. Their kids, or I should put it this way, if you want used science scores as a justification to get rid of school choice, the rivers going to have to flow both ways were going have to say you know what's going on in public schools because their science scores are lower. That is the voice of Matthew Ladner. He is senior research fellow at the Charles Coke Institute is a study recently led by the League of Women Voters that the dealt with this issue with North Carolina vouchers talk about the curricula.

It came out at about the same time as a research study from NC State University that showed our school vouchers were having eight positive and statistically significant impact on low income students and their student achievement. That probably sounds a lot more in line with what you're hearing of states as well John there's there's a tremendous amount of empirical research around the country showing that when families have the opportunity to choose schools that is actually mutually beneficial right the that the process by which parents you know exercise. These choices actually has a beneficial impact on the test scores in the performance of the public schools.

I think that that it's pretty obvious right if we were starting a schooling system from scratch that what we would not do is want to have schooling exclusively done by government entities with a monopoly and not allow anyone to go anywhere else right.

That is a recipe for a lot of the problems we actually do see right so public education is funding is guaranteed in all state constitutions.

I assume it's guaranteed here in the North Carolina Constitution and I assume that if we had a poll of the public in North Carolina.

We find overwhelming support for that but the fact that the public is going to provide funding for education does not mean that it should be the exclusive provider of that education and this is crucially important. If you go back and read Doug John Stuart Mills on liberty. He has a chapter about education and he describes it as being of unspeakable importance that the that civil society takes a leading role in providing education because otherwise he describes what would happen It's that schooling will simply become in a week describes as a mold right that there will be a tyranny of the mind and that it will simply be shaping people in the mold. Whether that mold is controlled by you know a king or bishops or or the majority opinion of the day right and in that that impulse is ultimately a liberal right.

We need to be tolerant of people having differences of opinion about science about other things right, and allowing the user of a peaceful coexistence, rather than yield to the servers to try to make everything the same. One of the things that we talked about about North Carolina's opportunity scholarship program is the fact that our general assembly has built-in additional funding year after year going out for about the next 8 to 10 years until the program is substantially larger than it is now based on what you know about how school vouchers are working across the country are they setting us on the right path. There Jan fact by understand that there despite the regular funding increases that there are also waitlist sooner or more parents at one end of these programs of the funding will allow even with increases right so the that the evidence is pretty pretty clear you know the providing people, families with opportunities is is a source of K-12 improvement that you cannot get from any other source. Right, there are other strategies and states do to try to improve K-12 outcomes. They have a mixed record, I would say right but you know the strategies are always top-down you know Freeman opportunities bottom up right and it is gets down to the basic fact that no one knows the individual needs and aspirations and and hopes of a child better than the child's own family right and that's sore that that sorting process where you know maybe her oldest child is a musician and would like to attend arts focus school and maybe your younger child is more focused on science and technology and engineering. The what a lot of overseeing around the country is getting away from the idea that one-size-fits-all. That is the voice of Matthew Ladner Senior research fellow at the Charles Cook don't think you will have on Carolina journal radio. Did you know you can now advance freedom and free markets just by shopping with Amazon it's true online shopping is now a great way to support the John lot foundation just shot using the Amazon smile program and designate the work foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop and Amazon donates money to ask the John Locke foundation. So here's how it works long time to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile.

It's the same Amazon you know same products same prices is much better.

Amazon donates .5% of the price of your eligible purchases to pass the John Locke foundation to try to be sure to designate the work foundation is a nonprofit, you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy will also support freedom.

Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, friends, rivals, great American presidents. Their ideas still have great value today. You could hear those ideas. Monday, November 5. It's a special living history event in Raleigh. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams come to life in a debate on the future of the United States of America. Taxes, trade, foreign threats, Jefferson and Adams dealt with them all though how shelter differences before a live audience. You could join them. It's living history. Monday, November 5 at 7 PM at the North Carolina Museum of natural sciences in Raleigh. Tickets are $10, five dollars for students like tickets online@johnlock.org that's John Locke with any.org or call 1866 JL left info if you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com.

You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and lot foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James G Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Try it today. This week's edition of Carolina journal radio was brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system from North Carolinians.

More information available at today. We.com welcome back Carolina journal radio. I North Carolina school officials are assuring parents there taking steps to keep kids safe in public schools. State Superintendent of Public instruction Mark Johnson is also asking for help from parents and their kids will be parents and students will be the number one resource of information for us in order to keep one student issues from becoming a school tragedy. Parents and students see that a student's behavior is becoming farther behavior is changing.

They need to tell law enforcement official school official or mental health professional students see that a student is suffering from bullying they need to tell educator mental health confessional bullying is unacceptable. But now even more than ever in this day and age we know some of these school tragedies*because of accessible and that also includes and this is why students are so this cyber bullying, cyber bowling is going on. That is our school officials are long. See what is happening step need them to help us identify where cyber bullying is occurring to help stop the superintendent spotlighted local schools efforts. Bruce Morrison is school safety director for Cumberland County. We have changed the way people come in our buildings. Entryway intercom cameras systems where you can't just walk what our plan is Saturday by the counselor are billing you have to come to your come to the front office and will know when you're on campus. We're making it so that somebody cannot see us as a soft target, and John and your children. When things were going at this point without additional cameras we've added additional SROs and with the help of the legislatures we hope to have at least 15 more elementary schools in the upcoming months. Without additional cameras we've added electronic door locks fencing around our school. Several measures to improve the security of our buildings also reach out to our community partners to our grandparents or parents, family members and were also seeking their assistance to BR years, or schools. We are making it so that is not someone to come off the street and hurt our children. We hope that things go along and we had additional security measures will operate one of the things that we like to stress the parents is that even though these things are inconvenient, were all doing the steps to make sure that your children provide them a safe you been listening to highlights from a recent news conference focusing on safety and North Carolina public schools will return with more Carolina journal radio.

The moment commitment to truth and transparency in government.

That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't in our reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them. Our monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month.

Our online daily news site Carolina journal.com has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more. The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you. Call 1866 JL FINFO for your free subscription book back Carolina journal radio why Michiko got a new state commission is focusing on the treatment of college student athletes in North Carolina during the group's first meeting.

One of the most compelling presentations came from lobbyist David Collins former UNC Chapel Hill football player Collins started with a warning about an existing committee that supposed to represent student needs that the student athlete advisory committee is great thing that provides the opportunity for student athletes to speak up and to allow for their voices be heard. The set committee. I was only there for two years.

The only way I can sum it up as a paper tiger and it's a great talking point of letting university systems, making sure that they tell the public that there listening to student athletes means Collins then shared details about his own college football experience, University of Chapel Hill loved every moment of it.

I was there for 2009 the 2013 I lived through the scandal unscathed. Actually went class actually wrote my papers. I did everything the right way to get a measurement. These were fats and football because the amount of time dedicated football was probably more than the amount time I was allotted to estimate is Collins football career didn't turn out the way he had hoped it would my entire career I was I was pretty much as a backup for first-round draft pick in a good frame on Jonathan Cooper my senior year was my time shot had occurring injury. My left ankle during training, which left me. Okay what's what's next in life, so how to patch job my entire senior year. Try to make it worth what could be your season, and from there I have no surgery after the season because quite honestly, I was in denial and wanted to please have some experience my senior year. Collins next turned to the oversight role of the national collegiate athletic Association or NCAA AA mission statement from the website.

As you all can look up and read for yourself, stating that the very looking after the best interest of athletes in my professional throughout the rest of your life. Unfortunately, I think this is where everybody can come together and we can do more for the student athletes to actually ensure that people are killed himself to ensure people are having to figure out on their own how much to pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars of surgeries that will because of my college athletics experience to bring it to your attention that they supposedly come out and consistently say Harry were pretty much the biggest advocate for again. My experience I was I was nothing but a paycheck for marking nobody from AA ever came really to have a meaningful discussion for all football players during those troubling times.

UNC but that's not to say there are great folks working with fonts division at the University working in and some other capacities that are trying their best to advocate for student athletes there are.

There are things in place that are going on right now. I just think we can do better. That's David Collins, a lobbyist at the North Carolina Gen. assembly. He's also a former UNC Chapel Hill football player and one of the first people to testify before the new state commission it's looking into the fair treatment of college student athletes. Collins offered the group. Some ideas. The first involved CTE a brain injury connected with football and other sports one clear Thursday to you absolutely real. It is a consequence to play in my opinion best for the entire world that we are innovative society, we can come up with ways to find solutions to resolve that issue in a limited so I encourage first step is to have a standardized protocol. So I encourage you all to use your your legislative power to take this moment go ahead and make law requiring all universities to have a standardized protocol for concussions. Look no further. From University Chapel Hill for what they do look no further fell for two great resources right there that you often pull from to create a standard protocol to move forward. Collins says he spoke with others before coming up with his recommendations. The second one comes from Trevor Falwell and his experience here is as a House member he brought to my attention. He tried to get all college students enrolled in helping Wells Fargo is the depth of that recommendation I would respectfully defer to Trevor Falwell this recommendation would help resolve insurance plans and issues that you all heard there's 1/3 recommendation we need to continue to look at the relationship between Catholics, universities and colleges and AA from healthcare perspective and let's look at other ways that maybe I'm missing that we can address and resolve and and and have a better better outcome for for current student athletes UNC football coach Larry Fedora generated headlines when he questioned reports about football's connection to CTE state representative John Harvester question Collins about that topic. What was your personal reaction to the comments made by coachman or not surprising.

I do agree with with his comment that the fact that the portions, the fact that football is a sport is kind of under attack by think it's unattached because of the fact that people within the sport of football we level all the way it fell or not acknowledging real percussions of playing the greatest sport so again not surprising Dan Forrest chairs the commission on student athletes. He asked Collins to share more details about his personal plight.

If you could just talk about your injury briefly, and the personal cost. Perhaps you think that's where you're heading when its cost to suture injury on the loan.

Proper care have other priorities in my life that I'm willing to continue to sustain this injury. Three tendons. First, let's also for sure fractured and secular social stress and Hercules was also an idea of what the cost of that you do for actual class.

I'm not sure but I was told to physicians and the actual doctor that did the surgery on performing surgeries that we will make sure you're aware of this sometime later in your life, you're gonna have to have a follow-up survey. Unfortunately, actually to work it out this summer session have the unfortunate timing of return one of in which I went back my family and did the whole cost-benefit analysis on and concluded what he wants all.

If you read chairs. The other two ligaments, Collins says she'll have to consider another surgery you been listening to one of the most compelling pieces of testimony from the first meeting of the new state commission it's focusing on fair treatment of college student applicants will return before Carolina Journal radio with a moment this week's edition of Carolina Journal radio is brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system from North Carolinians. More information available at today. We.com Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, friends, rivals, great American presidents.

Their ideas still have great value today. You can hear those ideas. Monday, November 5. It's a special living history event in Raleigh.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams come to life in a debate on the future of the United States of America. Taxes, trade, foreign threats, Jefferson and Adams dealt with them all though how shelter differences before a live audience. You could join them. It's living history.

Monday, November 5 at 7 PM at the North Carolina Museum of natural sciences in Raleigh. Tickets are $10, five dollars for students like tickets online@johnlock.org that's John Locke with any.org or call 1866 JL left info. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I'm Donna Martinez. When hurricane Florence devastated parts of eastern and southeastern North Carolina. The first concern of course was protecting lives and personal property, the business and industry were affected as well and in areas where agriculture is a huge business. All eyes were on hog lagoons which hold hog waste that is later used as fertilizer views differ on how we should ensure that these lagoons are safe and secure danwei as associate editor of Carolina Journal is been not reporting on the issue for us. Dan welcome back to the show.

So how did the lagoons fair during hurricane Florence will use are split into two camps. Farmers will say that it did very well functioned as intended.

Those who have concerns about environmental impacts. Think maybe not so well what we do know as of yesterday part of environmental quality. Statistics show that six lagoons had some level structural damage one severe 33 lagoons that have some level of spill and there are 10 lagoons that are at capacity still follow-up what is the concern when a lagoon does overflow. Is it simply that he gets into the water table or is it isn't as simple as fat or what is the. The other concern about chemicals there are concerns they raised about level of bacteria E. coli parasitic worms.

One of things that can be in alignment nor so people obviously have concerns about public health risks. How prevalent is this in eastern and southeastern North Carolina. These farms and lagoons was big business and the other 46,000 people involved in North Carolina and video slide industry from one level to another is about 2 1/2 billion dollar direct impact to the economy from hog farms Big business. There's a lot of lagoons. In fact, that there are a number of state legislators who either are current farmers involved in the industry or they used to be and so there tends to be a lot of discussion in the legislature about this in your story that you wrote about this which is available at Carolina. Journal.com you had some interesting comments from, among other people state representative Jimmy Dixon out of Duplin County is the chairman of the house and culture committee semi retired hog farmer himself. So this is obviously a issue near and dear to his heart and he explains how these hollow moons work and lessons learned since hurricane Floyd back in 1999. Now they will remove lather hogs on livestock when the storms approached remove 20,000. This storm for Florence lower the levels lagoons so that when these floodwaters come in and have more capacity containment when it does overtop of freshwater rises to the top when these logos get filled up so love the menorah might not be getting release my lessons learned. Is there a better way to do this, Dan. I mean you really think that the industry would be doing a lot of research on this. Well there is a lot of research being done and see state has had ongoing problems. Rather, studies looking at the problem or whether there environmentally sound Summit technologies is as I get studied and researched turn out to not be so environmental sound or not economically feasible. What kinds of things have been looked at as an alternative to a lagoon whether looking at the different kinds of methane gas recovery. They put some of this gas. It is produced from the hog manure decomposing through turbines I can do it on the farm side or sell it to utilities looked at doing these huge underground pits where they store it, but there are concerns about Latin poses health effects onto the swine herd itself in the amount of land that would need to be taken to build those pics so those are just a couple others. I think I close a dozen different techniques or methodologies that looked at hearing and see state any of those feasible or likely to be implemented here in North Carolina where some pilot projects.

I would say if there feasibly price a lot more but you know this is not just an issue with hog farms. Every time we have on these massive storms you have municipal treatment, human waste issues. Storm sewer overflows and so forth and and really those numbers will be much higher than what you'll see release from hog dunes. The folks who opposed hog lagoons. They look at the research as well. Are they saying that they do see that there some sort of cause and effect down to bad things happening with the environment or they saying, look, we understand that the research is inconclusive here do good university just cannot study just about a month ago was they looked at some health impacts down in eastern North Carolina and they see elevated incidence of kidney diseases, anemia, some other issues going on down there, but that's also one of the more poverty prone areas in the state.

So a lot of people don't have good healthcare others certain sinful for trip refer to them as medical deserts in that area so what the researchers found was over elevated levels of certain types of ailments but they cannot say they were directly linked to the hog industry and that, as with many studies. I said, demands more study exactly. You mentioned the issue with that municipal facilities and and human waste, and sometimes in these events and a curse at their spills, overflows, and etc. does that mean that perhaps local governments or even the state might have their own researcher were certainly vested interest in trying to look at at what the situation is with them. Alternative systems. I have not looked specifically into that although I am starting to ask questions have gotten any answers yet the DEQ says they have not compiled the numbers sets Department of environmental quality. Yes, and they are tasked with keeping track with these kinds of overflows. Obviously, because that is an environmental issue as well. Today they've not really given any kind of numbers on how massive amounts of gallons that have been released from the nestle plants. It seems like it's a real conundrum in this state.

Dan, because clearly agriculture number one industry in the hog farming sector huge in this distant incredible amounts of livelihoods that rely on that industry, but at the same time.

Everyone of course wants to make sure that that any industry is producing its product in a safe and environmentally friendly way.

So is there some common ground that people can reach or is this just going to continue to be a subject of debate year after year after year will you know as America has become less agriculturally oriented as people moved away from farms and bend more self-sustaining. I think there's a lot of lack of information among a lot of consumer so I think there's going to be disputes debates between agriculture industry and others for the foreseeable future. About impacts and how we go about getting the food on the table talking to Dan way his associate editor of Carolina Journal, he wrote the piece about this hog lagoon issue and you can find it at Carolina. Journal.com thanks very much appreciated all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch.

Okay Donna Martinez help you join us again next week for another edition. Carolina Journal radio this week's edition of Carolina Journal writing is brought to you by blue cross blue shield working everyday transform health system.

More information available today we.Journal radio program John Locke to learn more about the John Locke foundation donations support programs like Carolina send email to John.or call 66 JL left info 166-553-4636 Carolina Journal radio is a comfort action of the John Locke foundation Carolina's free-market think tank and Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program and are selling merely reflect the station. For more information about the show. Other programs and services of the foundation.

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