Carolina Journal Radio No. 806: Lawmakers target more money toward hurricane relief

From chair to current attack and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. This week's edition of Carolina Journal radio was brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system for North Carolinians. More information available at today. We.com governments often like to turn to sin taxes on items such as alcohol and tobacco. Do these taxes represent good public policy will your expert analysis.

Some state lawmakers are angry about an unpublicized office within the division of motor vehicles. It offered drivers licenses to selected government workers while the rest of us waited in line at the DMV with no race for president, governor or U.S. Senate on this year's ballot. Many observers are focusing on six proposed state constitutional amendments will take a closer look at all six those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline. It was a bipartisan moment in the North Carolina Gen. assembly in mid October, lawmakers from both sides of the political aisle joined with Gov. Roy Cooper on a nearly $800 million hurricane Florence disaster relief package and the plan is set to address the immediate needs of those impacted by Florence's torrential rains mainly in southeast and down coastal North Carolina as well as to attend to long term recovery and rebuilding plans. John, my foundation says senior vice president Becky Gray followed all the goings-on very closely and she's here to give us a sense of what happened in the chamber.

In mid October Becky welcome back.

Thank you. Always a pleasure so folks really did put politics aside and came together, and I tried to do something about the incredible devastation that we saw what was your sense of it. Couple things. First of all gas. Bipartisan support. Everybody came together. I mean there's just no arguing that they are tremendously not only right now. Take probably years to really recover on this isn't a problem for Republicans is in the problem for Democrats is prime for every North Carolina and I think we saw that course in the devastated areas we saw in Raleigh on John Street.

I think we seated across the state with the response that we panned with that thing that struck me the most and I think it's important to keep this in mind, thank goodness for the bold leadership in the fiscal management that we saying over the last eight years that there was $2 billion set aside damp. We noticed as we seen on the news internally. Carolina Journal is reported on the us that the needs are going to far exceed that we had that to billion-dollar cushion that rainy day fund and that rainy day campaign and you may recall that as the Gen. assembly was debating about what to do with the revenue surplus that we saying over the last several budget cycles as our economy is improving. There were many Gov. Roy Cooper was one that said, you know, we ought not be putting that money aside. You know how to be spending it for new programs for expansion. For more government kind of things leadership the John Sally said you know what it's really important to say that money $2 billion. Largest that it is ever been in the state of North Carolina and I think you just imagine if you would, we were dealing with this kind of devastation. This kind of need. That is, they are, and we didn't have that $2 billion but had that same date would be looking at tax increases. We be looking at you for these folks in the southern and eastern part of North Carolina trying to rebuild their businesses trying to come out of this. Can you imagine if their taxes were increased. In addition to know what they're going through.

So for lots of reasons. The one thing that I just keep in my mind as we look at this is thank goodness for the kind of leadership that we've had and let me just mention in an you mentioned there were $800 million that was allocated this week. That's in addition to the 56 million that was allocated a couple weeks ago.

They have said they're going to continue to look at this we can expect more money to come out of that rainy day fund because we need it.

And this is what it was.

Therefore, I expect that by the end of this all, if not all, most of that money will go for what what we need it for. But then what we do in the next one, so they can be rebuilding Exactly and so I Think That's One Thing That I Would Encourage Owners to Think about As They Go to the Polls on November in Early Voting Are Enough As They Cast Their Ballots to Look for Leaders Who Were Committed to This Kind of Fiscal Management and Understand Because We Don't Know When the Next Storm Is Going to Come.

We Can Be. We Can Rest Assured There's Going to Be Another When They're Going to Continue to Be Needs and Just like We Needed This Rainy Day Fund.

We Can and Need the Next One in the Next One and We Gotta Make Sure That We Have, in My View, That We Have the Kind of Leadership in Place to Recognize That and Make That up a Priority. I Think One of the Reasons They Were Able to Come Back for This Some Special Session to Get This Package through so Quickly Is Because They Knew That Money Was Sitting There for Something like This. I Can Recall the Debate That You Are Referred to over That the past Several Years Where There Was A Lot Of Pressure Placed on Legislators to Go Ahead and Spend That Money Rather Than Saving It and You Had Written Really Some Some Strong Leadership to Stand up and Say, Look, You Certainly We Could Do That. But What Happens If the Unexpected Occurs As You Always Know It Will Whether It's an Economic Downturn or Tragically, Something like a Hurricane, and so Those Folks Who Stood up Really I Think Have Been Proven to Have Had the Leadership Abilities to Say I'm Not Can Give into the Pressure and There Was A Lot Of It. There Was yet Another Set Me of This to Bold Leadership and It Took Really Strong Fiscal Management to Understand That We Just Met Your Family Budget. You Know When You Sit down. The Others off.

There's Always a Family Member or Maybe Your Six-year-old That You Know There's Somebody That Says No, Let's Not Put the Money Is on.

We Want to Go to Disneyland. We Want You Know We Want to Pound Me. You Know We Want More Stuff on Will More Toys We Want to End, and in Some Cases, There Are Certainly Legitimate Needs, but It's a Matter of Priority and so I Think That's the Important Thing You along with This $2 Billion That They Have Grown This Rainy Day Fund and We Also Have the Largest Teacher Pay Increases Teachers about Pay Increases over the Last Five Years State Employees Have Gotten Pay Increases, so It's a Matter of Priorities, and If You're Smart and If You're Strong and If You Have That Bold Leadership and That Ability to Say No to Those Who Want to Stand for Whatever Reason It's It's Just a Matter of Priorities, and so Again in a As We As We All Go to the Polls and Consider These Things Think It's Important to Look at the Candidate and the Leadership That You Think Is Important. Becky, We Mentioned That Some of This Money That Now Has Been Appropriated Will Go to the More Short-Term Immediate Needs. I Mean There Are People Who Don't Have Houses There Are Schools That Have Mold That Have To Have Something Done to Them in Order to Just Make Them Habitable for Kids in and Teachers to Come Back to All Sorts of Things like That but This Is Also Bringing up Some Long-Term Questions Really Policy Questions about Where Where We Go from Here Because We Know North Carolina Is Always Going to Be Subject to Hurricanes and Major Storms like This and There Are Now Some Folks Are Saying That Maybe We Need to Go Out Of. For Example, Dredge the Rivers of the Creeks in the Flood.

The Flood Prone Areas to Make Sure That At Least We Mitigate Some of That the Damage in the Future so There Any Questions That Legislators As Well As Local Officials Need to Address Policy Issues, like Exactly and All of Those Questions.

I Think the Important Thing to Remember Again Just like You and Bold Strong.

Recent Leadership Is What We Need. It Would Be Easy to Go in and Spend the Want of Money on Doing Some of the Things That May or May Not Have Long-Term Effects.

Anytime You're Trying to Fight Back. Mother Nature Think You Need to Be Very, Very Weak Signal on Our Coast with Some of the Some of the Dredging around Reports.

Some of the Big the Big Truckloads of Sand That Command to Reinforce and Re-Nourish the Beaches You Know What Were Saying Is, It Really Is Not As Effective As Some People Might Delay Something We Need to Be Really Careful with That on Something Else and I Think Really Needs a Close Look at an Again of a Big Policy Issue Is Our Water and Sewer Systems and Water and Sewer Systems across North Carolina Were Built about 50 Years Ago and the Materials That Were Used Have a Lifespan of about 50 Years Will Then You Get into the Flooding in the Erosion and All the Things We've Had in the Southern and Eastern Part of North Carolina We've Got to Make Sure That the Water and Sewer Is Re-Built in a Ways and That's Gonna Take A Lot Of Money. There's Infrastructure Projects the Road. Some of the Road to Continue on to Flawed Do We Rebuild That after Every Storm or Do We Restructure. Somehow the Infrastructure in the Way People Get around in That Part of the State and with These Considerations Again Whether You Got the Schools with the Got Affordable Housing with the Business Is That Her Back on Their Fate Has To Be Done in Such a Way That Ensures That We Have Economic Growth in Those Areas and across Her Statement Might Look Very Different.

We Been Talking with Becky Great.

She Is Senior Vice President for the John Locke Foundation. Of Course You Can Read All of Her work@carolinajournal.com. Also, John Locke.org and on Twitter at Becky Gray BEC KI GRA mine that he thinks thank you say with as much North Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment.

This week's edition of Carolina journal radio is brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform health system from both Carolinians more information available today. We.com Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, friends, rivals, great American presidents. Their ideas still have great value today. You could hear those ideas. Monday, November 5. It's a special living history event in Raleigh Thomas Jefferson or John Adams come to life in a debate on the future of the United States of America. Taxes, trade, foreign threats, Jefferson and Adams dealt with them all though how shelter differences before a live audience. You could join them. It's living history.

Monday, November 5 at 7 PM at the North Carolina Museum of natural sciences in Raleigh. Tickets are $10, five dollars for students like tickets online@johnlock.org that's John Locke with a V.org or call 1866 jail left info. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio like Michiko guy. Many governments assist so-called syntaxes items such as alcohol and tobacco. These taxes represent good public policy. Recent panel discussion tackle that topic. The event was cohosted by the John Locke foundation Western Carolina University's center for the study of free enterprise and the federal society where interviewing panelists to get their take on the topic in the segment we welcome Dr. Todd Nesbit assisted Prof. of economics at Ball State University and co-editor of a book on this very topic, titled for your own good taxes, paternalism and fiscal discrimination in the 21st century book of the program. Should you have any ownership so first of all, your book tackles this exact topic syntaxes. So what they do, why they're in place, whether they represent good public policy. Tell us what the book is designed to do so that Adam Hoffer and I we we pull together 25 academic scholars from around the nation to you all have a lot of experience working in the tax base and you're it. It's the book itself is is geared toward really try and explain number one why we end up seeing selective taxes as opposed to broader base more efficient and economically efficient taxes and and secondly, really, what are some of the secondary and attendant consequences that result from these taxes and we to conclude with some general guidelines of the best practices for a lot of states and local governments use the term selective taxes. Not quite the term syntaxes but syntaxes would be among the select yes absolutely.

So the most common selective type of selective tax would be a think most people would say say see it as a syntax.

But even cell phone and data charges or taxes would fall under that haven't quite made it to the syntax level, but I think that in the future they could probably see some arguments that were in that regard with special specifically the data points that are out there in general I get the sense that people who study these taxes looked at them from the vantage point of good versus bad public policy say this is probably not but not the right way to go.

No selective taxes also may have led to really poor policy across the board. I've labeled it as waves, lazy public policy in many respects, and so broad-based taxes are certainly much more efficient selective taxes.

They tend to disadvantage certain parties. There's a lot of a lot of the, the burden of these taxes certainly fall on the poor and then they also may advantage some corporations are some companies compared to some others, and so there's some cronyism involved in the application of these taxes. Politicians generally see them as more politically advantageous mainly because it if there some need for raising revenue, whether it be due to an increase in expenditures or decrease in inner governmental grants from the federal level, there's a there's a revenue need, but they could fund it, either through broad-based applied increase in taxes on all their constituents, or you can selectively tax some small segment of your constituents only about 15% of the population smell smoke. That's an easy target. At this point and they can put it a nice spin on it that says all were doing this to improve health as well. We are chatting with Dr. Todd Nesbit assisted Prof. of economics at Ball State University. As we mentioned also coeditor of a book on this topic of selective taxes were syntaxes. It's called for your own good taxes, paternalism, fiscal discrimination in the 21st century. Some people are good be listening to us in there to say wait a minute.

People who smoke. There is no reason why we shouldn't just puts an extra tax on those cigarettes are people who drink alcohol. You know they're choosing to do these things, it will have to do these things. Why not just put some extra taxation on that from the vantage point of someone looking at good tax policy. Why is that not the right way to focus on yet. So as I think that typically when we we talk about syntaxes. Historically, it's been more of of correcting for actions that have affected that an individual or group of individuals take attend to have some cost side of site cost on to other people on earth unaffiliated with that action itself deserted and economics lingo. This would be an externality problem and now are starting to see was cigarettes that used to be there used to be all secondhand smoke. So there is that the external cost.

Now the focus is more has become more on it it's it's intercounty so cost on myself that if I might invite happen to smoke lung causing damage to myself reducing my own health and I'm just not aware enough of it or are knowledgeable enough to actually take the correct action and I think that there is there's potentially some good argument to say we should try to help fellow citizens be more healthy, but the bigger question is should we do that through a stick so punishing them for this consumption, or trying to more lead it with a lead their their decision-making more with the carrot rather than at stake and so try to have these educational campaigns even have some type of program where we reward them for smoking cessation.

You work at Ball State University in the Midwest. Why come down to North Carolina and participate with the group of your peers and presentation design for North Carolinians is a state that could deftly learn some lessons here. It is a really interesting case. I think mainly because if you look at a lot of the the business climate indices that exist out there. The tax foundation just recently put out the 2019 state tax business climate index north Carolina ranks number 12. This is really good and you topped roughly 20% of the of the nation. But that's with the business climate and if you look at the inner book we have a paternalism index that's that state based north Carolina ranks 33rd, and so certainly there's a lot of room for improvement in the use of of taxes, selective taxes, they, the state doesn't do too bad the roughly 2122 in that index is certainly on that on the better half of the group, but they really tend to struggle with bands and does a really� Paternalist natures are trying to discourage certain actions. In doing so through public policy, and so a lot of individual freedoms are being really diminished mainly through some these tax policy and bands. A band is essentially what you can interpret as like an infinite selective tax and so it falls in the same line of literature as well. If people are interested in targeting these things like alcohol consumption or cigarette use. What's a good way to attack this policy wise.

That doesn't involve the selected taxation that you see such a problem that's that's in a difficult one is certainly here because I think it it's units or we could try to rely on as I think we use to some time ago, rely on the nonprofit said to to pick up that that role. However, if we want to do it through public policy. There certainly going to need to be some some form of tax revenue to fund various programs and so it's really I think that based on some of our research that that's present in the book. I think it's more of what if we want to reduce cigarette smoking tie our earmark the tax source that links directly with the meat so if there's more people smoking.

There's a greater need, potentially, then for smoking cessation programs that needs revenue. However, if we then tax cigarettes and earmark that directly for those that that expenditure, we see that more smoking leads to more revenue versus cessation programs and it's responding directly to the need will very interesting topic and one of the people who is so right on the mark on these issues is the coeditor of the book for your own good taxes, paternalism and fiscal discrimination in the 21st century is Dr. Todd Nesbit assisted Prof. of economics at Ball State diversity selector joints. Thank you very much level on Carolina Journal radio just did you know you can now advance freedom and free markets just by shopping with Amazon it's true online shopping is now a great way to support the John lock foundation just shot using the Amazon smile program and designate as the work foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop and Amazon donates money to ask the John Locke foundation. So here's how it works.

Log on to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile. It's the same Amazon you know same products same prices. Here's what's better. Amazon donates .5% of the price of your eligible purchases to pass the John Locke foundation to try to be sure to designate the lock foundation is a nonprofit, you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy will also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, friends, rivals, great American presidents. Their ideas still have great value today.

You could hear those ideas.

Monday, November 5. It's a special living history event in Raleigh.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams come to life in a debate on the future of the United States of America. Taxes, trade, foreign threats, Jefferson and Adams dealt with them all will have shelter differences before a live audience. You could join them. It's living history. Monday, November 5 at 7 PM at the North Carolina Museum of natural sciences in Raleigh. Tickets are $10, five dollars for students like tickets online@johnlock.org that's John Locke with a V.org or call 1866 JL left info if you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping for North Carolina's freedom movement@northcarolinaconservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina Journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina Journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James G. Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Try it today. This week's edition of Carolina Journal radio was brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system from both Carolinians more information available at today.

We.com welcome back Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy.

Some lawmakers are angry about a special office within the state division of motor vehicles. It provided drivers licenses for selected state employees Sen. Tommy Tucker once answers so DMV quick stop convenience store that they run separately from among the and we'll talk about trust and integrity.

I understand the process did a great job reporting owners all the even asked DMV the special office exist in the human they said no and then we found out that those were certain loosed state officials, those of the don't have time to wait in line and I will start this committee look at one of the office was established.

If it's still going all in how we explain as politicians and public service that we have the privilege to get our license and the zoom of 20 minute quick stop store DMV that exist for the general public, where virtually anyone, had a father call me you probably two weeks ago and John was concerned about his daughter being able to get a license for quickly. She was going off to school and we just basically told him we couldn't help them in the sheet have stand in line like everybody else.

And just like the rest of you know soon the burglar how much it irks me to have people of privilege to be able to get out from the restaurant was set at leader Phil Berger assured Tucker his complaints would not go unnoticed. Your points are well taken.

Most certain that it is something that we haven't heard less about the commission as well as individual members. I'm sure will be continuing to ask questions representative Nelson dollar weight in beyond the special DMV office. He wants to know why everyone else is facing such long lines for licenses for my constituents. We got just massive lines out to make some inquiries on those that the central staff here at the Gen. assembly has been working overtime to get information and there was some lag in getting that information, I think. At least I hope they have the data now that they have been seeking. I think your folks want to know why certainly reroute all of these lines. I do think this is the issue that is affecting so many people and we need to get me to get to the bottom of the listening to state lawmakers complaints about issues related to North Carolina drivers licenses more Carolina Journal radio with about a commitment to truth and transparency in government. That is the mission of Carolina Journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money.

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The award-winning Carolina Journal team I reporters make government accountable to you. Call 1866 JL FINF0 for your free subscription, welcome back. Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy. Many governments assess so-called syntaxes and items such as alcohol and tobacco.

These taxes represent good public policy. Recent panel discussion tackled that topic. The event was cohosted by the John Locke foundation Western Carolina University's center for the study of free enterprise and the federal society interviewing panelists to get their take on this issue and related topics in this segment we welcome Dr. Craig Capt. Prof. of economics that you would see Charlotte. Welcome to the program you are an author of one of the chapters of the book that's on this subject for your own good taxes, paternalism and fiscal discrimination in the 21st century in your chapter deals not necessarily so much with syntaxes per se, whether they're good or not, but for the whole I do shoot the idea of subsidies of sports stadiums and the selected taxes used today to deal with that is that correct correct to tell us a little bit about the sports stadiums and how taxation fits in with our motives be familiar with the publicly funded stadiums. Historically, this was very common that the city would build a stadium hosting in a number of events could be professional sports motocross soccer over the past 25, 30 years since become much more selective and much more specialized. So we have single-purpose stadiums and multipurpose student and at the same time public's are the lyrics. The extended-release� Increase dramatically. So a statement used to cost $30 million back in the 60s now cost almost $1 billion and some of that is because of construction costs and labor unions were not as fine, but a lot of it is because of the fancy suites and other opening roofs and things like that. So we talked about in our chapter is how are these stadiums can be financed, so there are two choices want to be the finest by the team owner or by the league some private entity or the public will provide money for this over the past 2530 years.

The public has provided substantial enough, maybe more than $1 billion toward estate and construction across the country and how does have these particular expenditures financed and so their play weighs a concert talk about how we would finance the state is but we know what the politicians suited to sales taxes, they might choose hotel taxes. Choose car-rental taxes and the idea here is that with the sales tax is a broad base and so sell sex to be very high, but because of her boys being charged 1/4 of a penny every time of existing pay for when it comes the hotel taxes and Carl taxes the typical stories I will. Those are outsiders are coming in and were tax those people that come in for tourism and for the events or for other reasons of the coming we talk about our chapters of this is far you can charge hotel tax. But the question is exactly paying the tax. Not the individual who has a tax paid on their credit card but who's actually bearing the burden of the tax and if you think about a tax that is actually bindings that people change their behaviors than in case of hotel tax, fewer hotel rooms be rented out because the tax has increased the cost of hotel room. Maybe not the person coming to say Charlotte for Panthers game on their income regardless. But there might be other decision-makers to say well we could have a conference say were the local dentist Association. We have a conference here in Charlotte but we could also have a Nashville instead international doesn't have the same tax as Charlotte so I'll move the conference from Charlotte to Asheville that Ms. fewer rooms were rented in Charlotte because of this tax now sort of tell because we didn't see that show up in Charlotte so we do know this happens from not advertising the paper that the dentists are not coming. Charlotte with the real problem is that from the conflict is that if there fewer roofing rented in Charlotte or any other city to impose these taxes then that means there are fewer people to be hired by hotel owners rights there fewer remaining services. If your restaurant tour restaurant employees.

So who bears the burden of this tax and somebody paid it course but the burden could be local employers right outside employees to be local suppliers for package soap for hotels been there fewer roofing rented when he fewer bars of soap and so we talk about our chapter is that incidents of these taxes is very difficult to actually measure is easy, theoretic theoretical about this, but we are worried about is that the incidence of these taxes don't fall on the people that are advertised to Carl tax so may not be a good example.

But in Arlington, Texas, April the Carl tax but in Arlington most the cars are to be rented by locals. The main car-rental place to be of the Dallas-Fort Worth airport which is not in Arlington, Texas.

So somebody has her car under repair and the need to rent a car for a week or few days as a local rented car, so the car-rental taxes advertisers being only force on the outsiders. The person comes in and is tourism and is going to pay the tax, but it could be that the locals are paying tax saving with hotel situation. Like you, so you have a family reunion so all your families coming in so are those the logos of those outsiders want to tax you really want to tax a purse that was coming in for the Panthers game were for four baseball game and instead distinguish, impose a tax on individuals who were really advertisers as bandits and is this really discussion we come up with is that we could choose some amount of public money to pay for the stadiums and the question is how do we go about doing that in a way that's transparent but also puts the burden of the cost on those who receive the benefits of this incident. Second part of our chapter talks about fortifying is a stadium. Who should I should pay for an accounting that comes sensibly like maybe the people to get a lot of benefit from that stadium should pay for it so I do the fans a go visit the stadium go to the games they should pay a tax on the tickets.

Or they should. Personal seat licenses up to two finest stadium as opposed to something on people that maybe can afford to go to the games or frankly, if you don't like football you like a sport and play the same. Are you being forced to pay for such kind of storing our chapter we're chatting with Dr. Craig Deb can Prof. of economics at UNC Charlotte. And as I listened to you discussing the how this tax was playing out of thought of the common term, we hear an economics of the law of unintended consequences that you think you're targeting one group you actually end up hurting a whole other group including the people who tend to get hurt more by taxation very much in our story in our chapter, we talk about tax incidents is typically talked about twin buyers and sellers so there's a sales tax on some particular good, who's in a bear the brunt of that tax is of the buyer and seller will try to get at is that is actually much more nuanced that because there's lots of dimensions which people could be a bearing cost of a tax or any other policy so could be that the sales tax locally. I have a car so I can try to drive away from that tax or go to the next county over by my goods and services at another county. Why don't I don't have a car, then I can't avoid. This may be it so it could be a wealth issue that is rich for support with the commute time of purchase. I'd have to buy this today because I have an emergency, but some just buying six months now so they have plenty of opportunity to find a substitute so taxes and is typically elegant negative principles of micro economics course to be taught in a very simple sick labor would try to be more nuanced to say that this is resent the tax at your imposing on one group of people actually borne by another group of people that you didn't see coming, and for the bus on things. He said there's a seemingly unseen and so seeing who pays the tax a locative credit.

Tax in the hotel I get it. There's a credit card swipe that person pay the tax in dollar terms, but we don't know who actually bears the cost and that's a little more nuanced question and one that especially talk about stating finances because the numbers are so large, hundreds of millions of dollars spent over 30 years, but these effects are not small and not temporary but can be around for quite some time will certainly a very interesting angle to this whole idea of the specialized taxes targeted tax syntaxes and the person we been speaking with and one of the authors of the chapter the book for your own good is Dr. Craig Deb can Prof. of economics at UNC Charlotte. Thanks much for joining us a 71 Carolina journal where you just this week's edition of Carolina journal radio is brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system from North Carolinians. More information available at today. We.com Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, friends, rivals, great American presidents. Their ideas still have great value today. You can hear those ideas. Monday, November 5.

It's a special living history event in Raleigh. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams come to life in a debate on the future of the United States of America. Taxes, trade, foreign threats, Jefferson and Adams dealt with them all though how shelter differences before a live audience.

You could join them. It's living history.

Monday, November 5, 7 PM at the North Carolina Museum of natural sciences in Raleigh.

Tickets are $10, five dollars for students like tickets online@johnlocke.org that's John Locke with any.org or call 1866 jail left info. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio Dina Martina's early voting is underway across North Carolina with the official election day, just around the corner on November 6. Voters will be casting ballots for a variety of offices including a seat on the North Carolina Supreme Court three seats on the North Carolina Court of Appeals. Members of U.S. Congress and of course, members of the North Carolina Gen. assembly, but there are also six additional items up for a yes or no vote.

They are amendments to the North Carolina Constitution and they have created. In some cases fight a battle among the advocates for or against these particular ideas. Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina journal Carolina journal following all of this information quite closely makes here to help us make sense of it all welcome. Thank you. First of all, let's name the six constitutional amendments just so everybody understands the six that they will be voting on the right. One of them would enshrine the Constitution the right to hunt and fish, which is something that supporters say is necessary to protect those rights from being eroded through legislation opponents. I really isn't necessary. That's the general gist of that Second Amendment would The current state income tax rate at 7% it would actually reduce the Is now the Constitution Constitutional L 10%. This would reduce it to 7% of general civil could never increase the tax rate income tax rate above 7%. That would actually constitute a major tax increase of what we have now boys were say this would keep taxes and check opponents say this is simply a way to prevent government from doing what it needs to do or would cause the general assembly to have to rely on other forms of taxation. If you want to spend third amendment deals with voter ID, a requirement that people provide a government issued photo ID when they vote is a long-standing controversy that's been through both federal and state courts.

The arguments are fairly straightforward. Proponents say that ID is necessary to protect the integrity of elections. Opponents say this could be used as a way to disenfranchise voters who don't have Heidi's.

We also have victim rights and that's that's it. That's rather, it is interesting limited that it talks about providing crime victims and people who were sort of insulated crime victims like family members or access to the courts and the judicial process again. Supporters say this is something to level the playing field for victims versus offenders opponents are saying that this is simply a way to go up process little more like the dispensation of justice for Rick, then the final two amendments are getting all sorts of it attention and both of them relate to the authority between the Gen. assembly and the governor's office tell us about those. The first one would reconstitute the state board of elections and ethics enforcement which was combined with the ethics commission of the state elections were combined several years ago by the Gen. assembly. This would enshrine them in the Constitution as agencies that were equally's of appointed between members of the Republicans and Democrats of the Gen. assembly. Basically they would sue they would nominate members for eight member state board, the governor would choose among those slate of nominees okay and then judicial vacancies.

Yes, this would change the current system by which the governor fills vacancies that appear in the on judicial posts all across the ramp realm from Supreme Court all the way down the local judges and this would place that most of that. They conceived of appointment process in the hands of a panel that would then forward nominations to the governor and with based on the recommendations that panel is called merit-based selection, although that's a bit of the you feel you been above and not necessarily accurate description because it is really nothing merit-based about it is just simply that the good, rather than having the governor appointed this pale point and that is the crux of some interesting debate that has gone on. First of all we should say that there is one particular effort underway. Called Nick Saul six right. Those are people who don't want voters to pass any of these assignments, but then these last two regarding kind of that the tug-of-war of power between the governor's seat and again were not talking about the person who occupies the governor's office which happens to be Roy Cooper. Right now, but the power of that office versus the power of the Gen. assembly and we've had former North Carolina governors among those who have gotten involved in the discussion here right this first exhibit any of these discussions about the power balance of power between the generals and with the governor, the courts is that where Constitution is written, the legislative branch is the most powerful of the three. In many cases, the judiciary and the executive branches have whatever power the general assembly decides to give it unless those powers are are described in the Constitution itself.

So that's the first thing a lot of people need remember we have a separation of powers principle we don't have a balance of power like the federal system so the argument is over whether or not the executive branch has enough power to actually execute the laws. And so with the issue of the board of elections in the board with the board elections and ethics enforcement is called the issue here is whether or not the governor has enough authority to appoint members to, in effect, execute the laws. And that's why the five former living former governors of ultimate against you because of the general assembly is simply taking the governor's power away to a point. The people he or she prefers to sit in these positions and the argument that the general assembly has made putting this note on the ballot is that this process should be something that is under the Gen. assembly's purview actually is being handled by a base would be handled by the majority and minority party.

Each chamber of the Gen. assembly, each of whom will submit nominations of Democrats and Republicans will each have the opportunity to up to nominate a slate of candidates and the governor will choose from that slate so the governor really ultimately has the choice. The five former governor same amount I will have the choice were told if anybody you want as long system allows a people so that so that that's the crux of the argument. Now, what makes this particularly interesting is that just a few days ago. We also had a court ruling related to this issue. Yes that's right the three-judge panel that's been looking at the constitutionality of the current board of elections, which is now divided between four Democratic appointees for public appointees and one unaffiliated member who is appointed by the board. So as of 441 split right now the judge judge ruled that panel itself was unconstitutional to the board of elections as it currently is currently constituted, does not meet the standard separation of powers. It does not allow the governor freedom to appoint the people that he or she chooses. But what it did was it said that the that the board itself will stay in place until this election is over so that would cause chaos okay so then we run up to the election. Let's say that that voters say yes they pass the constitutional amendment does not render this court ruling moved up pretty much out the dust because now then the board of elections will be in the Constitution itself liked about what happens if voters say no. We don't want to pass this voters they know that the court battle continues.

Probably what happens is that the board of elections will continue to stay inside remain in some fashion until the general simply comes up with yet another one which may be the fourth or fifth, 6 to 16. We, and lastly Rick, there's been some interesting conversation around this judicial vacancies in them.

It is what I write Americans for prosperity which is free-market grassroots organization has come out against this particular amendment and the reason that they stated, for basically is that there's a way in the amendment that if a vacancy comes open early in the term of the Gen. assembly.

If the appointee who would not be appointed by the governor would be able to sit for almost 4 years without facing election. That's the crux of that argument. Thank you Brent, thank you all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening will join us again next week for more Carolina journal radio this week's edition of Carolina journal radio brought to you by Blue Cross working everyday transformed health system. More information available today.

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