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Carolina Journal Radio No. 835: Tillis picks up GOP challenger in 2020 Senate race

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
May 20, 2019 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 835: Tillis picks up GOP challenger in 2020 Senate race

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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May 20, 2019 8:00 am

Republican U.S. Sen. Thom Tillis of North Carolina will not face an easy path to re-election in 2020. While Democrats have not yet lined up a high-profile challenger, retired conservative businessman Garland Tucker recently announced his plan to challenge Tillis in the GOP primary. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, analyzes the current state of the 2020 U.S. Senate race. The recent death of a South Carolina college student helped attract attention to concerns about safety involving Uber, Lyft, and similar ridesharing operations. Some N.C. lawmakers are pushing the Passenger Protection Act to address those concerns. You’ll learn key elements of the proposal. The Read to Achieve program is designed to ensure N.C. public school students read at grade level by third grade. The program has had a rocky start. Senate leader Phil Berger, R-Rockingham, is leading the effort to improve Read to Achieve. You’ll hear his recommendations. Some N.C. lawmakers want to guarantee that public school students learn about the Holocaust. They’re pushing legislation that would mandate Holocaust instruction in the state’s public schools. Telemedicine’s rising popularity has prompted some policymakers to consider new regulations. Jordan Roberts, John Locke Foundation health care policy analyst, urges caution. Roberts recently prepared a list of telemedicine regulation “do’s and don’ts.”


From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Mitch go guy during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state a South Carolina college students, recent death help raise awareness about ridesharing passenger safety. Learn how North Carolina legislators are responding to the incident read to achieve program is had a rocky start but one of the states most powerful lawmakers is pushing changes there designed to help ensure more third-graders read at grade level and other education news. Some lawmakers want to guarantee that public school students learn about the Holocaust learn details of their plan in the realm of healthcare and analyst spells out a list of do's and don'ts for regulation of telemedicine should government just get out of the way those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline 2020. Politics has arrived. All eyes are now on North Carolina not just for what our state could mean in determining the next president of the United States but North Carolina also has a key U.S. Senate race on the 2020 ballot now. Things are really starting to get interesting in this race for the seat currently held by Republican Tom Tillis Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal, this particular race is one that I know Carolina Journal will be following closely, and Rick joins us now to talk about the latest development to welcome back to the program that you are right we have a Republican primary challenger for Sen. Tom Tillis tells about the person Scarlett Tucker who is successful businessman and investor from Raleigh in full disclosure.

He was a senior fellow with the John Locke foundation for some time and we sever entire populations of ties with him when we learned that he was formally going to run against the details because we don't allow employees or supporters or whatever related people to be involved in partisan politics, but he somebody who is a historian someone who is very interested in issues like presidential leadership and constitutionalism, and he's going to run against Tom Tillis from the right.

He's going to say that Tom Tillis is not sufficiently conservative that he someone who is not paid attention to the federal debt that he someone who has not supported Pres. trial sufficiently enough, which is very interesting because Mr. Tucker himself was a reluctant trump supporter and made it very public in a news and Observer out that right before the election. So this is going to be an interesting race because you have two people who are both the two Republican candidates were both going to say there will from Trenton the other guy had some said they had issues with the president is the yet Tillis campaign responded to this is, they've basically so far treated Garland Tucker, and I think the tells him is been pretty quiet about the Republican national focus editorial committee, and various other Republican groups have essentially said that Garland Tucker is is essentially a French candidate that Tillis's record voting record with Pres. Trump is more than 95% and that this is a distraction and this is something that actually doesn't help the conservative cause a Republican because I think I saw a comment from someone associated with them. The Tillis campus saying that Garland Tucker is an and anti-trump activists but as you explained, you know. Both Tillis and Tucker have at different times agreed and disagreed with the president. You know I think is fascinating.

Rick is the sum of the national publications that cover up politics are describing Sen. Tom Tillis as a vulnerable Republican house so will he's never had really high approval ratings throughout his tenure, he has always been unwavering in the in the 40s to low 50s.

At best, in his approval ratings and part of that is simply because he ran a very close race against Kay Hagan back in 2014 and he is someone who has not been a firebrand by any stretch of the vegetation but he's all but is also someone who North Carolina has been some sort look across the islands of various issues. More recently, of course, he was involved in this public tiff with Pres. about the present ability to declare executive emergency related to the border, wrote an op-ed was published in the Washington Post that he was going to vote against the president and then flipped and so that was a sort of thing that that that will suck them: own goal is because what he did was he staked out a position very publicly walked away from it and didn't really give explanations a lot of people bought about this so there is this this lingering thought among some conservative Republicans that he's really not his mortise.

He should be toward principles, but if you look at his voting record and his ability to to accomplish things and work on legislation alike both here in the Gen. assembly, North Carolina said it is actually accomplished a lot for fresh set of course we don't know if there will be any other Republican to jump into the primary, but at this point with this two-person race. It almost sounds as if Mr. Tucker is going to be cast as the outsider who wants to come in and clean up Washington versus Sen. Tillis is now considered to be the establishment candidate right and that can be a friendly message to a lot of people, you like him because this is going to be that the elections are to go to the referendum on Pres. Trump and I think inside the Republican Party were present from still very highly regarded among activist types that made the Tucker message may resonate with them nationally or what you get beyond the primary electric that's gonna be hard to say one thing about Sen. Tillis is anyone who has followed him at all will know that he is a relentless campaigner.

He is extremely organized. He is very focused on detail and he just outlines every body and so he may not come across as a person who's going to be. Also, who will give foot high minded speech is Sen. Ben Sasser's money like that but he somebody who really does work hard and he is very very good campaigner. And so if it comes in a situation we have for candidate debates or something like that. His depth of knowledge may be a problem for Mr. Tucker because Mr. Tucker talks a very high level, but does sometimes a little bit short on detail. This is also a statewide race and down you going to deal with the issue of name recognition now primary isn't until March of next year so there's still plenty of time, but it would presume would meant that Mr. Tucker is going to have to get out and start visiting all these counties and in North Carolina just to introduce himself. That's right, he has enough money to self fund the campaign that will be competitive regardless. But yes, he's going to have to do something very much of the grassroots level meet and greet a lot of people in center. Tillis is quite comfortable doing that he did that, as House Speaker when he was running for the Senate the first time around, he visited lots of folks and so this is something that Mr. Tucker going to have to do is he's going to have to do lots of meets and greets him. I just chooses to do big rallies of this part say hello and how that will happen, but that he's going to have to make his name familiar to lots and speaking of money, and fundraising.

I'm Sen. Tillis apparently has not quite a good amount of cash on hand so financially he can be prepared to run the statewide race against you. The I think that I think that's the case was going to be it's going to be admit the battle of the surgeon, how and how well the insurgent message runs in 2020, but there with listener Tillis is to be my usually support he's going get support from one would imagine all. For instance, all of the groups are associated with the coke affiliated groups because he's been the center Tillis been very big on criminal justice reform which is an issue that was near and dear to his heart. Something that he said was very important for him on immigration reform that will be interesting a task to see how about how the candidates differentiate themselves if at all in operational form and so there there are other issues like that the debts going to be yet another one exactly a lot of people have been criticizing the president for not addressing the US.

Dad 10 continuing to increase spending at the same time doing tax cuts and tax reform, but as we know in North Carolina in order to make all that work you gotta do a combination is just straight as is well and tells Anton Tillis can talk about that Randy was here in North Carolina. When this all started to relax reform exactly what's can be a fascinating primary. At this point to people in the race on the Republican side that would be the current officeholder as Sen. Tom Tillis and now a primary challenger for a businessman in Ireland, Tucker and then we'll see what the Democrats might deal if anyone's willing to jump into this race on the Democratic side looks like there are three people at this point whose names have been floated is interested in the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat State Sen. Erica Smith Raleigh attorney Eva Lee and former Mecklenburg Commissioner Trevor Fuller buybacks talk about those candidates as well as Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal.

Remember to follow Carolina Journal not only online Carolina course, the monthly print edition, but also at Carolina Journal on Twitter everything you say with this much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business.

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John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina journal radio imprint on the air and on the web. You can find the information you welcome back Carolina journal radio hi Mitch coke I headlines recently alerted people to the story of a South Carolina college student killed by the man she thought was her goober driver.

Some North Carolina lawmakers took notice, but state representative John Bell of Wayne County says the proposed passenger protection act is based on more than just one anecdote.

The truth is a serious public safety concern across 2015. A man impersonating overdrawn metropolis all suited Christian University students and making inappropriate comments in 2017 emancipation result of the Florida Gulf Coast University student after telling her to drop in 2018, University of Georgia student was right by me as follows her Roger drop please. Currently investigating the faithfully the provider has more victim 2019 in Seattle, Washington amendment a reservation charged with authority so your percolator Roger driver and right division. I got 2019 a man impersonating overdrawn remitted photographing intoxicated students who were unconscious in his car takes a quick search on the Internet you can find numerous examples of people impersonating Roger driver being charged with false dictation, kidnapping, assault and murder. So what with the passenger protection act to the passenger protection act is new to the law. It was just past the South Carolina night on the one it will require Roger driver to display a consistent and distinctive illuminated sign making it easier for passengers to driver no longer work for the company, they must return the sound in 10 days if they do not comply with the rock the Roger company must report those drivers names elastin addresses data for this is it is still up to the individual passenger to verify the license plate number correct vehicle make and model and asked the Roger driver your name before entering the vehicle we are aware that this will not completely solve the problem but we do believe this is the least way to ensure the ridesharing passenger are more easily able to father vehicle from the safest in every case and everything can awfully prevent bad people from doing bad things. However, we can make it more difficult to bring awareness to start a conversation about public safety issues affect our country representative John Bell is lined up supporters outside the general assembly. Natalie Truby is a student at NC State University and how to be standing and limiting rights and Company asked him twice about taking on.

I can't or will not only make eye campus is a safer place type state of safer place as a whole is one of the many that we can take as individuals state crime line that occurred at the universe is not a crack at NC State's police chief Jack Orman also supports the proposal as parents of you as the police chief dog thing.

What can we do to ensure that our students are safe to say this type of thing that could certainly happen anywhere and I think this will certainly be very beneficial to law enforcement, and although we do know that people can have these life even if they are not drivers will.

If we saw law enforcement stop the vehicle and they have a light indicating they are driver or any other type of Roger driver and we can verify that they are and that gives them something to do so is another tool is another way that we can work to keep our students. Nothing is more important than the safety of our students use these type of rideshare vehicles to get away from location to location, how many times a day how many times a year for both events. Use these services if this will help reduce one if it if it will help keep those students save.

That is certainly worthwhile.

We have not had any verified incidents of individuals who were impersonating goober drivers. One thing we've done proactively to her.

For example, offers have a law-enforcement liaison back in January we had their liaison come to our campus training class for our police officers. They are very they are very involved and engaged. This program that provides information on if we have a student who is missing after they were supposed to be picked up by a number. Here's who we contact here is that we can verify the drivers identity. So it really hit if we need to get a search for example here's the information included in the search for facilitate expedited process we've been very engaged on the front and make sure were of what we can if we do have an incident from another major college town Chapel Hill bar owner Scott Maitland added his own support to the plan. Ridesharing has been an important development in the lives of college students and citizens over the last two years with many many benefits from very very excited that the legislative assembly seemed to actually address some concerns that we obviously are sharing as a society and I think that echoing representative those comments that this law is necessary to fix everything. What I'm most excited about is the idea of the lighted signs raising awareness that not only people that would be getting in the actual cars. People also walking by would be aware that hey, this is something that we need to be cognizant of as a society and not just take it for granted but everybody's well-intentioned act. So while we recognize that that doesn't solve the issue.

I think it goes a long way to recognizing or skews me to making people recognize some of the issues that surround the services. Bell says he's not sure about pursuing any other regulations for goober lift driver suggests new government requirements for background checks is concerned about all my regulations, but Atwood as we move all the technology upgrades the command and as an absolute applications and news in new industries are developed in this is all responsibly. Number one. It is a government entity is 250 practices of the study vessel with the fortitude to look at situations like this. There's less than walking into question think they were not. But I lose my duty to look at the public safety is a public safety concern. This discussion nothing starts here and we'll see where it goes. Because the total number member's last couple days about about their concerns. This is been something that I've been approached Azalea Festival this week.

It will people's mind, and there is or is there going to the best drivers on and so unfortunately we had a very horrific event happened a few weeks ago the forefront order discusses will start and and and what will regulations need to be strengthened and what regulations need to be implemented. A look for to have a discussion committee.

Bell recounted another personal example. My wife and I were leaving the garden party down in Wilmington and for no rain, thereby finding it a favor.

I called and got one looking in the line without a car so I was trying to maneuver through the traffic finally called. The driver was able to identify the car when I got to the car, his picture look completely different than what you look as he had appeared had all and not unite. I was talkative at our whole time, but a riff life little will resemble balance different in the picture. United makes you think and say the very least, hoping to at least bring awareness that the site leaving the masonry to make the mouth causing many to be content with Ivanova gravity to say their name, I will be over lifting interactive programs and hopefully this is a new situation that we find ourselves in the public needs to understand the public safety concerns out there that's state representative John Bell discussing his support of the passenger protection act term for Carolina journal radio in a moment. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now.

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Republican Sen. Phil Berger explained we want the best policies that put North Carolina students in a position to succeed. That is our first and are only go in some way. If some things need fixing unless fixed and if some things are working well then let's replicate the bill covers in classroom instruction, reading camps, educator training data collection and brings in the higher education community to help streamline literacy instruction in both K-3 classrooms and in teacher preparation programs. Other studies have successfully enacted individual reading plans which are tailored teacher-student plans of action for those kids who need some more help in literacy. We replicate that model here starting in kindergarten and extending it to third grade teachers will create specific plans tailored to the student's particular reading are also instructing the PI to identify model curriculum for school districts. The point here is to ensure that best practices proliferate, stay an extra summer reading camps which can be effective remedial tools and students for students were falling behind. It's important that the instructors of those camps are themselves the best and the brightest, and so we incentivize educators who excel in teaching childhood literacy to be part of the reading executing literacy strategies the right way is just as important as strategies were asking the North Carolina Center for the advancement of teachers to prioritize early grades literacy training asking them to develop state school superintendent Mark Johnson supports the proposal.

It's called the excellent public schools act early childhood literacy is one of our top priorities.

And when I entered office two years ago I initiated a deep dive into how the Department of Public instruction implemented the read to achieve program we found were hard truths about how DPI implement that program and we took steps to make sure that we address those issues. This proposal today will give us even more tools to improve how we teach our youngest students. The bill has some bipartisan by Democratic state Board of Education member JB Buxton explains his colleagues response to recent reading results to clear conclusions emerge, one needed to tighten implementation, state and local level. Read to achieve policy, which we thought and second, we need a greater teacher supports in the development of teachers and the ongoing support of teachers and curriculum, I'm pleased to say that this bill to exceptional you been listening to comments about the proposed excellent public schools act term with more Carolina journal rate among where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with us. Listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listened Locke to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got some state lawmakers believe North Carolina public school students need to learn more about the horrors of the Holocaust Republican representative Julia Howard recently discussed details of House Bill 437 education school and high school standards to study and integrate education on the Holocaust into particular courses and requires the state to develop curriculum for a Holocaust studies to the middle schools and high schools requires consultation with the North Carolina Council on the Holocaust and the North campus line for the advancement of teaching.

Several lawmakers explained their support for the measure.

Republican Ted Davis represents New Hanover County recalled his own visit to the Dachau concentration camp in Germany.

Saul rooms were people were tortured, Saul. The showers were people working fast so the furnaces were people burned. I will never forget that the rest of my life and I think if this bill was passed in that education is given to the use today. I think the take a whole different view of the horrors that can happen with people, intimidate, harass, pickle interviews on the so I ask you to please support the bill would pass in County Republican Craig Horne offered his own observations, I to have visited Dachau and I visited three other death camps in Europe had occasion to see sadly some similar camps, not in Europe but in other parts of the world and many of us are not aware that such horror flick things can happen have happened. We have those that do not ever did happen. I was at Dachau in 1963, or four lesson 20 years after the war it was, not just a sobering experience.

It was far beyond that, the smiles, the sites and even to a certain extent, the sounds, I had occasion to go back tobacco again toward the end of the 20th century.

No late 90s.

Quite frankly, I was a bit appalled that the sanitization had taken place. The barracks were down there were just some foundations. The ovens were cleaned up lots of flowers made to look pretty.

There was a museum with a few pictures but it did no justice to the millions of people that went through that camp and others. Back in 1964. I think this was when I was there. There was an area outside the ovens large dark area will sign that said the grave of thousands of unknown today. Today in this I will tell you because I've encountered him that I didn't really happen really George Santiago Spanish historian once said, those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it.

We have already thankfully not been exactly in this but don't believe for a second that there are such things going on in this world today because I can assure you that there are. We must never forget that's the message that hangs on the wall in the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC.

But there is no sound like the sound of walking through the gates at Dachau or the other camps you see Arbeit Mark Frey work sets you free. I wouldn't call it for so I from the bottom my heart I ask you to please support this bill.

It is important for us and for our children and for our children's children so that we will never forget your listening to debate about House Bill 437, a measure requiring state education officials to develop a curriculum focusing on the Holocaust representative Larry Pittman says one of his friends has special knowledge that could come in handy for students had a friend in Kannapolis. Her name is Dr. Audie Crist body grew up under Hitler and Germany and her parents were very active in hiding Jews and feeding them, helping them escape. So she knows all about that time in his present home said there are people in our country diatribe denied ever happened and Audie is deeply concerned about that. It was my privilege to nominate Audie and Rex and Aminah speaker moral appointed her to the Holocaust counsel and she's gone be tickled at this get to work on this, so I appreciate that she is there. This time were considered doing this appreciate if you pass this bill the should get the chance because she wants to make a difference in making sure the people know and the people remember publican representative Jay Adams warned colleagues that history involving the Holocaust is already fading from memory a couple years ago. She was introduced to a book called world the week written by a gentleman named Edwin Black and it was about eugenics movement and Edwin Black had written the previous book called IBM in the Holocaust. That book was published, probably about 2002, IBM did the data processing for Hitler he think they could. They collected the data for the Holocaust and Edwin Black doing research for that book in Europe came upon many writings from the United States, referring to the eugenics movement and he can understand what I could find this documents in United States and began to really search the documents in United States he found there were pretty much in the basements of people's houses were available in libraries in the book the war on the week is about his inquiries as to why this chapter of United States history was so obscure and so murky why it hadn't been revealed. It's an incredible book. It will literally set your heroin far to read this part of our history is basically unknown representative Dennis Riddell offered another story about a visit the Dachau.

It's a very quiet place.

No laughter, no smiles and joy out of the confines of the main barracks area is the side of the gas rooms in the ovens. The anteroom's standing in the gas chambers, shower rooms, as they called it the Nazis thought they were doing everybody a kindness by telling them they were going to get a shower before they cast him and murdered him. They thought that was a noble thing on their part sound skewed. We can become only don't cherish life here not the same when you go to a place like that and I heartily endorse this bill. I think it's very important that we remember what has happened that we do not repeat it. All of that occurred because one group of people in power determine that another group of people were not human in their life did not matter.

Life is precious and life is good you been listening to highlights from debate about House Bill 437.

It would require instruction in North Carolina schools about the Holocaust. The house approved the measure unanimously overturned with North Carolina general radio in a moment a commitment to truth and transparency in government.

That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't in our reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them. Our monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month. Our online daily news site Carolina has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more. The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you. Call 1866 JL FINFO for your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez may have heard of it in your health insurance plan maybe urging you to try it.

Were talking about telemedicine or telehealth. It's a method of using technology to deliver medical care, but is telemedicine becomes more popular, there may be an urge by regulators to impose unnecessary rules that would hurt its adoption.

Jordan Roberts is the John Locke foundation's healthcare policy analyst he's been studying the issue of innovations such as telemedicine is here to talk about it Jordan, welcome back to the show so we hear the stewards telemedicine telehealth are the same thing, and if not now in a different well in some context that can be the same thing. But as we get more and more new technologies. A coming healthcare. Sometimes I can mean different things, but I do miss the most basic level, telemedicine telehealth, it is describing the use of telecommunications technology to treat and diagnose patients at a distance and that's the key at a distance.

There Sarah on your telemedicine more often than not, describe specific clinical care, senior doctor in telehealth is a more broad concept of overall health that you can be outside of the clinical setting, give us an example of that. It sounds as if it instead of having to physically show up at my doctors on this or at hospital emergency room.

I can actually use my phone or me and my laptop to connect up with a medical professional.

Yes, that's the most common type is the arrive conferencing you notice similar to face time on your phone you have to get out Kari Dr. Tom what's going on and they cannot decide from a distance, whether or not a trip to the doctor's office as needed. Or, you know, what's the best course of action. After that, I found a picture of that ugly rash growing up there.

Another method of it. You could take a picture of what's going on anywhere and send it forward and the look at it at a different time and not get back to you.

And then there's another form called remote patient monitoring these diagnoses that you know the patient did have certain vitals measured you know you can do at a distance and if something gets a little out of whack. You cannot be notified by her doctor said was a bunch of different types and you now as we get more and more different technologies are wearables you know Apple Watches, is things like that that can monetary you said this vitals there's a hold a whole slew of different technologies and now we really haven't even scratched the surface of what we can do with it.

I can tell you my health insurance company is actually urging right me to look into it to them try to experiment with it and see if I like it. They keep sending me mailings about that's that.

Yeah they really want me to do that. That tells me that medical professionals and we consumers maybe are starting to get a little bit more comfortable with doing something like that. And whenever that happens, Jordan, that means that suddenly telemedicine telehealth becomes an issue for the insurance industry and right or doctors who are working with different insurance plans.

Something very interesting that's about really am looking forward to what happens is it becomes more and more popular in your little bit concerned that some regulators may think this is something that we need to get the government involved in rock a little bit about so whatever John Mark is that you there's some do's and don'ts of telemedicine to really you know keep it as accessible and you know another benefit is that it's very cost-effective. There's not that overhead of going to the doctor the time and costs associated with that and so you know the ways that I see that you can positively you know use regulation to open up accessibility is that we in all 50 states.

You have to have a license to practice medicine.

So if North Carolina and other states were to open up their telemedicine licensing laws to allow doctors from out of state to treat patients in their state that really gives the patient more choice and improves competition between providers and so that you know the main point of telemedicine is treating patients a distance so you know, wherever you are if you can see the patient or the doctor specialist that you choose. You know that's really what we want and that surprising to me because it it almost seems intuitive that if the big benefit here is you don't have to be physically in the same location right with the medical expert. Why wouldn't we allow it's kind of interesting part of the way regulate healthcare and that each state you know wants, keep their license laws that their doctors and state can are the only ones I can treat their patients and stay but the old thinking is a little counterintuitive to the benefits of telemedicine so you know that's where I see some states have tried to do this by no real avail because doctors and stay one keep their patients that they're saying coming to their their offices and so that's one. One way we can you really open it up and then one of the things I talked about the regulators should not do is required equal payments, and private insurance plans for the same procedure done in a clinical setting, and over the over Telemann telemedicine method because you have rightly talked about is the cost-effective and cost-saving type of care and so if you are for the insurers are forced by the government to pay for and include these benefits in their in their plans and that really runs counter to the benefits they can bring because you know as you go see the doctor and you get see more and more.

You can cut a lot of those costs down by just seeing the doctor over recent telecommunications methods and so you know that the payment in the usage of telemedicine should be decided by the patient physician and the insurer, not by government, you know that's a very interesting point Jordan because I think some people might be listing to us and think what you know if if this is now up-and-coming and I'm getting the same quality of care that I would if I were in the office.

Why wouldn't there be the same payment for that service at talk more about it if you would is to how it's almost counterintuitive yet you say there's so many different you know American healthcare. It's a pretty well-known phenomenon that we have a ton of waste.

We have a ton of over duplication of services and things like that and so you know and telemedicine.

Another point that I want to make is that you it's an up-and-coming technology and not a lot of physicians are on board with it. So is being slowly adopted and that's why you should you know the private sector to find the benefits find the best way for the patients to use it. And so if you regulate that payment for the services needs to be the same as in person care then you know you really done away with the benefits of cost saving of a patient driven model where they can choose you know I don't want to go to the doctor today so I can call my doctor or I can't afford to you now go to the doctor today, but there's this very cheap method of me seeing a physician figuring out if this rash is really deadly or something so you know, I just would become just another expensive form of care versus you know an inexpensive option that still provide you with quality absolutely and so that's why you know the peace I say that the private market can figure out what is the best use how patients want to use it and where insurers want to invest in that there gonna pay for these types of services as the benefits become more more obvious and you know, like we said, it's very early and we haven't even gotten close to the potential that this can you know have on transforming our healthcare system.

Now you are a younger guy and so your of the generation where doing things on your phone on your laptop. That is just second nature to you. I'm older than you are back and adapted a bit to the whole wearable thing though I'm not so sure I Jordan I do know I know you can be writing about more and more innovations, and in fact this set issue of telemedicine. Jordan writes a lot about Jordan Robertson healthcare policy analyst for the John Locke foundation, the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch.

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