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Carolina Journal Radio No. 836: Bishop’s win sets table for 9th District contest

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
May 27, 2019 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 836: Bishop’s win sets table for 9th District contest

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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May 27, 2019 8:00 am

State Sen. Dan Bishop won a crowded Republican primary in North Carolina’s special 9th Congressional District election. That victory sets up a Sept. 10 showdown with Democrat Dan McCready, who came close to winning the disputed 9th District race in 2018. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, discusses Bishop’s win and looks ahead to the general election. The feminist movement has had an undeniable impact on the lives of women. Mona Charen, senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, says feminism has had a much-less-publicized effect on men. Charen explored the consequences of feminism during a recent presentation in North Carolina. Parents, teachers, and policymakers all have complained about the high volume of standardized testing in N.C. public schools. You’ll hear highlights from a bill in the General Assembly designed to address the issue. Some N.C. lawmakers want to extend public whistleblower protections to city police officers and management. A nearly unanimous state House endorsed the idea. You’ll learn why advocates say the additional protection is necessary. There’s a movement in the N.C. General Assembly to modernize state alcohol regulations. Jon Sanders, John Locke Foundation director of regulatory studies, assesses the proposals. Sanders explains why reform makes sense for consumers and the state.

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Carolina Journal Radio
Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Pacheco got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. The feminist movement has had an obvious impact on women. But what about men during a recent visit to North Carolina. An expert from the ethics and Public policy Center, pondered Buddhism's influence on parents, teachers, and policymakers all talked about reducing testing North Carolina's public schools you learn about legislation focusing on that goal. Some state lawmakers want to extend government whistleblower protections to local police to learn why and will look into efforts to reform North Carolina's regulation of alcohol, especially liquor. How might a more moderate approach benefit consumers spend the community at large.

Those topics are just ahead. But first, Donna Martinez joins us. She has the Carolina Journal headline the field is now set for the race to choose a new U.S. House member for North Carolina's ninth congressional district as the area that comprises eight counties directly from Fayetteville over to Charlotte area has been unrepresented following a ballot shenanigans in last November's race that led to no certified winner Carolina Journal has been following the story of this district and what went on their editor-in-chief Rick Henderson joins us now with an update request. Thank you alright so let's talk about the primary that was held on the Republican side who wanted "well Dan, Bishop of all the stake center for Mecklenburg County one pretties. 50% of the 40% of the vote. There were other candidates involved a Sony rushing from Union County Commissioner there is a controversial figure rather larger-than-life boss hog one point Matthew right now Mecklenburg County Commissioner there as well is Lee Brown, a realtor who ran these realtors Association political action committee and got a lot of money for political action committee. The big ones and Bishop got half the vote.

It was expensive. It really that anyone was going to pull that kind of number quite a few people in the field. A lot of people thought that the bishop with the 30% threshold necessary to avoid runoff.

I wasn't one of them I thought) is running a very, very public campaign whose review he was usually active.

The rushing of course got the endorsement of the discredited River Mark Harris who pulled out of the race after shenanigans were uncovered and only Brown had a ton of money that race, so I thought that they would at least give enough support to prevent bishop from hitting that figure, but no yacht almost 48% of the vote. Very few votes cast. Only about 10% turnout hoardings that were the elections are about 313,000 voters who are eligible to vote in the primary between Republicans and affiliates only about 31,000 cast ballots to percent and frankly the low turnout did surprise me a bit. I know the conventional wisdom is well, because it was a special situation and then notoriously these types of primaries. In particular, I really don't drop a lot of people, but Scott national media attention, not to mention all the attention in North Carolina is that more people would want to be a part of determining this outcome, but obviously it was a low turnout gives a sense of whose Dan Bishop, what is he like State Sen. He is very active. A lot of cultural social issues. He was one of the people who was one of the persons very much behind help the controversial health bill to and he's going to be both running for that and go to be targeted with that by by the Democrats running the dam crazy and also the party about that. He is someone who is a very active presence in the Senate, especially during floor debate sees one of the few members the general civil who actually engages with the other side in debates and the doesn't just simply spout talking points and so he someone who's been really well known in Raleigh, which is how much is he going to be known around the district and so that's me. This could be Dan Bishop's big issue.

He's going to run as a very much very much in favor present Donald Trump's agenda runs a cultural conservative and populist, and so we'll see. I I think he is someone who represents the Republican Party in that district think that he's very much in tune with the voters. There will see what crossover appeal. You mentioned Dan McCready he is the Democrat in the race. He didn't have a primary so please got the nomination. He'll be going forward to the general which is being held at Lehman September night, September 10 say that Dan McCready there. Give us a sense of who he is he, by the way, was in the original race sent last November. That's right, he came 905 unofficial vote short of winning the race back in November was the race that was never certified questions over ballot harvesting etc. that's right. He's Marine. He's someone who is a businessman. He has blue not serve the public office before, and he has been piling up money. He has a lot of national interest in Dan McCready from national Democrat that he is considered to be the sort of suburban slightly left of center, but not too far left of center Democrat who could win in a race that in a district that is perceived to be strongly Republican, and he has been also infamous for being extremely vague about what he stands for. Other than being against all Trump and against Republicans, the Republican agenda. So he was very unclear whether he would support Nancy Pelosi for speaker differences during the 2018 election would pose the question if Democrats control the house we vote for Nancy Pelosi anyway always country that is a hypothetical. She was elected director Steve after he said he was acting as if he was going to be representative of what we vote for Ernie and he was very much a very swirly about that income.

To this day when that questions posed by reporters. Are you sports for Nancy Pelosi's sort of says well she's a speaker, but I got, Jerry was better so he's he's being very imprecise in his positions on views except for what is against and that's Republican agenda and gives language of unity and the like of the Congress is going be Dan Bishop is not giving language community at all.

So he is running someone who's very much a hardcharging pro Trump very very much pro-conservative running hard-line immigration issues running hard-line and cultural issues so there will be a contrast there. I guess the question is whether voters will prefer clarity to vagueness because that's what the battle looks like it's going to be interesting to where the national Democratic Party is clearly moving way, way, way far to the left describe Dan McCready as a little bit left of center so it's kind of a strange situation in that he's got a lot of national support, national money, etc. yet.

Does he really represent where the Democratic Party is today the Democrats want to gain seats because they are well. As with any national party that runs through intelligent campaigns, a like to have candidates who seem to be tailored to the districts Republican in in Utah is probably going to be good running differently than Republicans in New York so you have this situation which you would think that candidates would be somewhat tailed district and that's the way that the Damocles come across that he is someone who has even shown here with the suburban neighborhood with the trees and houses and cul-de-sacs and stuff like that is so so that's where the that's where he's going to be attempting to set his his roots and so that's where the campaign is going to be run because they this is largely the areas of union County and southern Mecklenburg County. There there very suburban and that's what population centers are not you move further east you got a lot of rural voters you got parts of Cumberland County Fayette will Robson County, and the like different voting type of voter and so that may be actually where the race is won or lost. Even though the population centers aren't there, is that you're going to have who can appeal to those voters because they will make an impact in September to be fascinating to see who comes to campaign, will the president come to campaign for Dan Bishop and who from the Democratic Party would come to campaign for Dan McCready that might give us a signal of how he is viewed anyone else in this race for the general libertarian, Jeff Scott, who ran the first time around, and is given running continuing his campaign is also a green party candidate Alan Smith thinks there will be two minor party candidates.

Rick Anderson is editor in chief of Carolina and stay with us much more Carolina journal radio account just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign up@carolinajournal.com you'll receive Carolina journal newspaper in your mailbox each month.

Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles. The powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine a light on it all with the stories and angles. Other outlets barely cover but there's a bonus I print newspapers published monthly by our daily news site gives you the latest news each and every day lot onto Carolina journal.com once, twice, even three times a day.

You won't be disappointed. It's fresh news if you'd like a heads up on the daily news sign up for our daily email do that Carolina journal.com Carolina journal rigorous unrelenting old-school journalism. We hold government accountable for you. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko got there's no doubt that the feminist movement has had major impacts on the lives of women, men, how has it affected them next guest address that topic during a recent presentation for the John Locke foundation's Shaftesbury society moment Sharon is senior fellow at the ethics and Public policy Center is also the most recent Pope lecture speaker at North Carolina State University. Thanks for joining us like pleasure. Thanks for having some guessing most people when they think about the feminist movement and the impact that it's had. Think about women going.

Why should we also be thinking about how this is affected.

It's a huge untold story. We have we have a culture and society that is very focused on the needs of women, often in very good ways women have special needs at work. Women have to deal with sexual harassment. Women have challenges of various kinds with juggling home and family A+ work. All right, that's fine.

But what we don't tend to pay much attention to is that men in our society are following behind in worrisome ways we have now a situation where 60% of the undergraduate bachelors degrees that are awarded to women.

A similar number of graduate degrees in many fields. Women are graduating from high school at higher rates than men.

Women are employed at higher rates than men. Men are also falling away from their family responsibilities and from fatherhood and what I'm worried about and what I think our culture needs to grapple with and pay attention to is that the decline of men as fathers and the decline of appreciating that very important role in their lives and in our society has some has had many many very baleful facts. It's had bad effects on women, girls who grow up without fathers in the home have many more problems than girls who have involved dad but what we found recently what the social science tells us, and what some of those data that I was just citing suggests is that growing up in a fatherless home is much more devastating for boys and they are paying a much heavier price in terms of life success so boys who grow up without dads or we all know that there much more likely to get involved with the criminal justice system. That's a well-known statistic, but it's also true that they're less ambitious, less likely to want to go to college and less likely to be employed as adults, then their sisters grew up in the same home without a father, and so we need to be particularly attentive to the fact that boys need guidance in order to grow up healthy and happy and frankly marriageable. When guys grow up without fathers.

They have much less likely to be the kind of man that women want to marry and so that's another aspect of this attorney were all connected together so much of a tendency to say what's good for women versus what's good for men and what I try to say in my talk when I said my talk what I say in my book sex matters is that we cannot cannot bifurcate what's good for the sexes that way.

World War II connected men and if we women are thriving at the expense of manner of men are failing to thrive. It affects women and vice versa.

We are chatting with motor chair and she is senior fellow at the ethics and Public policy Center. These harmful effects for men. Do you think result from the feminist movement, or is this just something that has happened because of such a focus on women that men of got left behind its that's a very very complicated question. I think to a degree, especially the early second wave feminists serve the iconic now ready for Dan and Gloria Stein and Jermaine Greer and so forth that crowd certainly contributed to this problem because they were content to talk about women's advancement. They also denigrated men and they denigrated marriage. They felt that marriage was a chat for women and they were very, very keen to destroy what they called the patriarchy and by that they meant not just that men tend to have the corner offices but that marriage itself was a kind of oppression of women and and I think that as and as a matter of intellectual history that did affect the culture it did affect it did serve to devalue marriage and diminish its importance for many people. Obviously there are other things going on as well. The economy is changing to less of an industrial economy were now in a postindustrial or information age economy the kinds of jobs that those that are economy now tends to provide our tend to be service-oriented jobs where women might have a slight advantage because women are more interpersonally sophisticated. Charlie said in men and in general not always, but these things are roughly true and so those things are also contributing but chat but I do think that the that the feminist movement insofar as it denigrated marriage and the importance of fathers in particular played role. We could talk for a long time about what we do now that we know about the problem but what you see is sort of the first thing we need to recognize and address. Now that we know that this problem exists for. We need to focus on the fact that people in the upper third of our society college educated, have figured out that marriage is important.

They have a plan for their children and they know that in order for their kids to take their places in the upper echelons of our society that they need to parents and that they need fathers for the most part. Obviously if same-sex couples, that's not always good to be possible, but time with the other two thirds of our society.

Which is the majority of Americans. Marriage has fallen so far out of favor that is almost not the norm. Now if you look at the numbers of high school dropout women. For example, who have their first baby out of wedlock like 67% and it is no longer the norm for the fit for people with little or so only some college education. So what we do about that. Well, one thing I'll quote Charles Murray here.

Mary says that the elites need to preach what they practice because you don't keep it a secret that this is one of the ways that you can have a successful life and a middle-class income or above and that your child, children are like thrive so very important to message do you get the sense that some people are now getting this evidence is so obvious that people see there's a need to act. I'm not so sure about that but what I do think is that it very much matters how you frame it, you cannot come to people and and chastise them and say you're bad person because you had a baby out of wedlock or you father children out of wedlock. Following the social norms that they inherited.

They didn't think they were doing anything particularly wrong. It's up to us to say hey you might want to rethink this. Here the facts here is think things that you might not have heard about a may not. I quote a young woman from inner-city high school beautiful young gal smart who was told she said I never was told about the success sequence that is you know that you should do these things in order and be sure to be married before year before your first child. She said no one ever taught. The book is titled sex matters. The altar is motor chair and she is senior fellow at the ethics and Public policy Center, also the most recent lecture speaker.

Thanks much for joining my pleasure on Carolina journal radio just a moment. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com. It's one-stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement@northcarolinaconservative.com. You'll find links to John my foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James Dean Martin, Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Try it today. North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina.

Journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke in the sea and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal. Don't wait for the morning newspaper. Don't wait for the evening news if it's happening now it's happening here the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal. Have you covered with up to the second information like us on Facebook the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal follow us on Twitter at John lock NC at at Carolina journal. Who knew you could shop and invest in freedom at the same time it is true online shopping is now a great way to support the John lock foundation just shop using the Amazon smile program and designate the John my foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop Amazon donates money to pass the John Locke foundation. Here's how long. Time to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile is the same Amazon you know same products same prices. But here's what's better. Amazon donates 0.5% of the price of your eligible Amazon smile purchases to the John, my foundation to try it.

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It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John lock foundation will be back Carolina journal radio why Michiko got some North Carolina lawmakers believe public school students spend far too much time taking standardized tests.

The statehouse is approved the bill to cut back on that testing Republican representative Jeffrey Elmore of Wilkes County explains, I did an interview on this particular bill and the person interviewed me said I have been looking at the Gen. assembly since 1999, and they've all said that they wanted to reduce testing. But when the rubber met the road.

It seems like it really happens. This is your opportunity to streamline our standardized testing program. Instead, North Carolina is use a program in grades third through eighth. That has been piloted. Basically seven EOG process where you have a test at the end of the year and in my teaching experience I always had to deal with small groups, so I've had students before literally start at 830 in the morning after break for lunch and come back to the test after watching their working on the test away until time for the bus to take them home and we have to stop at that for student is really nothing more than a test of endurance at that point, I don't really think you were pulling any valuable information from their answers that 2 o'clock that afternoon. Since I've been testing since I 30. So this series of tears would be sure the details that would be given three times and of the test run about 90 minutes and the results from that would be average. The hospital into the nationally known tears which currently use the ACT and that strangely streamlines an extreme amount of standardized test at the high school level. It also deals with local assessment in one county. A fifth-grader is taking over 37 hours and you of the local assessment. That's not counting the state pays just the local parties and a trend that you see from the data is many times the systems that are struggling the most are the ones that are local assessing the most. So you see a trend of higher testing, but will result that issue and in the last piece deals with the graduation project and an elimination of that because in my opinion, that is a pure equity issue and is putting kids that are in extreme poverty, not on the same level as other kids with the completion of the project. It is your opportunity to truly reduce testing so North Carolina Elmore's idea attracted widespread bipartisan support in the statehouse. The measure passed with a vote of 110 to 2 support the state Senate to become more mature with more Carolina journal radio where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlock.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with S. Listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation.

Welcome back Carolina journal radio I'm Ashoka some North Carolina lawmakers want to extend government whistleblower protection to city police Republican state representative Holly Grange explains. Currently North Carolina municipal law enforcement officers are not afforded protections against retaliation if they report corruption state law enforcement officers are afforded whistleblower protection.

Whistleblower protection provides transparency that is critical to good governance and protecting the public trust.

This bill only applies to municipal law enforcement officers that do not already have whistleblower protections in place. For instance, many of our larger municipalities already have lower protections.

For instance, Wilmington, North Carolina which is where which is my municipality already has these protections in place. This bill not only protects the rank-and-file law enforcement officers from retaliation. It also protects retaliation against municipal police chiefs among the bill supporters Randy Byrd is president of the North Carolina police benevolent Association is true.

Officers do not feel all the ability or have all the flaming to be able to come for and report corruption. It's out there it's going on and we need to have something in place that if we report on that we would not suffer retaliation Bladen County attorney Michael McGinnis also spoke in support of new whistleblower protection for local police. My parents told me long ago that there are some bad things that go on in the United States of America and corruption and theft and malfeasance in office by public officials or few of those things, not just bad, it's wrong and it's immoral. All I was a prosecutor before I started representing law enforcement officers and I have been around for 61 years and I've seen corruption far too much corruption in North Carolina seated in my home community. Regretfully I've seen it in police agencies at the highest level I once had a clot in Robson County that was a whistleblower and as result of his disclosure. 29 guilty pleas were taken in a huge case known as operation Cornish bad this bill is long limited.

Diane Dixon explained how the bill could help her home community I belong to one of those communities that we are all talking about one of those communities that has corruption all the way to the bone and as a result of that we lost to find police officers 50 years of experience because we had a town manager who was hired to Sandy that she knew more about law enforcement than our loan then police chief did say she created the mess workable hostile environment for this police chief tightly took away all of the things that she was supposed to be doing now you ask why they went to town. But what do they letter manually and they letter police chief resigned and went to work for Robinson canning the Stanley and Robinson County. The next person in charge than would be the captain so this town manager started full force after him and let it be known she was going after several of us who lived in the community discovered a lot of things about this town manager that was not included on her application and we brought it to the forefront when our Canton investigated one of these items and there was a mole in the hell I'm sure they got straight back to the town manager and she fired him. Not everyone is on board. Garner police chief Brendan suitable explained his objections to the bill because of the whistleblower protection already is addressed in many local policies certainly can be afforded protection through state and federal law, and we can address illegal termination by suit that already is occurring again.

There is no evidence that I'm aware of.

Other than discussion of any widespread issue at the municipal level.

Again, those protections that exist include against chiefs of police that might act inappropriately more portly. I would argue that the singles out municipalities, but only law enforcement agencies within municipalities and if we are concerned enough about this, we should be looking at this across the board for all employees not just municipal law enforcement. I would tell you is the chief of police.

I emphasize consistent and fair treatment of our employees and I think that there is a mischaracterization in regards to what is going on in law enforcement. Thirdly, I would argue that this creates bad practices and I think this is the point that is not necessarily been addressed or emphasized the creates a unique law enforcement municipal liability. It increases the likelihood of litigious actions by employees that would not otherwise be filed and it will almost in all likelihood hamper our ability to remove officers that have done the wrong thing. Fred Baggett is a lawyer for the state police Chiefs Association's group also opposes the plan that employees do help whistleblower protection their remedies as a state personnel commission unless they are exempt which means the vast majority of state employees who have whistleblower protection don't get to sue with attorney's fees in Superior Court.

Is this bill would give law enforcement officers. So there is a tremendous difference in front was a big problem with the bill is the limited everybody is against retaliation. With the threat of a lawsuit is stymied, personnel administration and make it more difficult to get rid of bad officers John Midgett of the police benevolent Association spoke in favor of the bill the premises bill is to avoid litigation to stop wasting tax dollars to resolve matters in house within the departments, police officers are compelled to come forward and then come forward and do what they're supposed to do, but they can completely be fired in less there some process in place like this right now. North Carolina has five municipalities, including Wilmington, but has these provisions. Although the municipalities have some level but nothing to this extent, where it has some binding process. Officers are required to do their job. They are now wearing body cameras. We have people attempting to murder our members and their being not trusted by the community and we asked and they asked will can you come forward. Can you can you report corruption.

We can't do that. That needs to stop Democratic state representative Billy Richardson turned to his own experience of explaining why he supports the whistleblower bill doing this for 34 years represented people both sides of this that I can tell you unequivocally that every officer I've ever interviewed when they're having to make a statement adjacent apartment or a city official carries with this incredible fear that their jobs stood as a silencing effect of giving it the truth, and the purpose of this is to let officers the laws behind them. The good people of them in the morning to come forward until the truth always simply put these all very afraid of losing their jobs. This would be a way of bolstering them and enabling them empower them become for detailed measure would need support from both the House and Senate to become law overturned with North Carolina journal rate real influence.

You either have it or you don't and at the John my foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complaint or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life.

Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse envy of every other state. Our research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Dina Martina's North Carolina's constitution favors free enterprise and opposes monopolies making it well past time to end our government monopoly on liquor that is the conclusion of a new policy report from the John lock foundations John Sanders. He is director of regulatory studies. John joins us now with a look at why and how North Carolina can and should modernize its liquor industry helping deliberate consumers and distillers from government control.look back to the program. Next, give us a sense of how North Carolina deals with liquor versus how a lot of other states to so North Carolina's control state with regard to liquor, which means that all aspects of liquor sales or control of the government level of the state has a warehouse that the has a commission that decides which liquor products can be sold warehouse that stores and individual government owned stores that provide retail sales to customers so government involved in every single point along the process of distribution and sale of liquor gets about two thirds of the states are license states which is pretty much how we do beer and wine sales North Carolina were a provider a retailer is licensed to give those things out to provide them to consumers, but government is not controlling it. The way that it is liquor some curious John.

Why would North Carolina deal with liquor. One way and beer and wine and another way, there must be some sort of history to that. I think the history is is there is the idea that liquor is more dangerous than beer and wine and so after prohibition where all alcohol was along when prohibition came to a conclusion. North Carolina had to decide what are we going to do our going to regulated in other states are making their decisions. This is what Carolina chose to do based on all the different tap points at which government is involved here in North Carolina that tells me there's gotta be all sorts of bureaucracy tied to this as well is very steep to bureaucracy and what makes North Carolina even unique among control states is that we have local government control of the retail the individual ABC boards are local government forces and the stores are owned by those court so those ABC stores that we see around North Carolina. There's actually a group of people aboard that controls what happens there. Yes, you know I come from Arizona and I when I first moved to North Carolina I had no clue what an ABC store was to be completely honest with you I thought it was like you Harris Teeter or food is something called ABC and then I had to learn how liquor was distributed here as it was very unusual to me so why should we then modernize because here's the argument that we hear John when we talk about this and you been writing and analyzing this for years, urging North Carolina to get the government out. Out of this, but those who support the control effort say look, you know, if you try to modernize and get government out some bad things are going to happen when Satan what sort of a circular argument that I run into the government created this monopoly for itself in the state government and the state constitution says monopolies should should not be allowed so the government creates this monopoly because of trying to protect people from receiving too much licorice they want to control the sales liquor while in doing so, they found out that there creating a really nice revenue stream for themselves. So whenever you go after liquor depends on who you're talking to the so you know what we can do about replacing revenue or were we going to do about keeping people away from liquor and tends to see the argument can go back and forth if you answer one side of it.

They go back for the other.

Let's talk a little bit more about each of those so that the concern is certainly no one, no matter what your view about government's role in liquor is no one wants them over drinking binge drinking anything like that.

So is there any research as to how the way estate handles liquor does it impact how much people drink your research pretty much is Primus finds that it doesn't matter the kind of control, and if you think about it makes sense because really the only thing that were controlling is sales of bottles of liquor and people have access at much greater times throughout the day to beer, wine, liquor by the drink at their favorite restaurant or bar or sporting establishment. So essentially what the ABC limits with the ABC store limits are purchasing bottles of liquor, so that's a very small amount of alcohol that's consumed in the state. John what about the idea that well if you change this then you got all sorts of people who might lose their jobs or a city government or county government is gonna lose money that's necessary to provide a public service there counting on that. That's what the defenders of the control system also say well if they are private sales of public or private establishments are going to have to hire somebody so they might as well be hiring people that have institutional knowledge of those of those retailers of those distillers so I don't see that the big of a concern.

The biggest concern is how they replace the local revenues and that will have to be done by a series of poor decisions on excise taxes or some other funding level on but even that can be handled. The other taxes in the other state revenues are already built into the the state statutes and don't depend on whether it's a controller license stay, John, and in fact in the report that you wrote which is available@johnlock.org you actually take a look at some other states and how they've handled things and how they've dealt with that same types of issues and it's very interesting what is occurred in other states. Is there another state that is a model for North Carolina to follow or is this kind of all over the map as to what the individual state experiences really are. It's all over the map. That's what makes it so difficult in writing about this is you can point to one states a gosh we really should be like that. A lot of times you can point to one state and say will in this area. This is probably the more free state to model after but then they get something else wrong at least from a liberty perspective this is a legal product that were talking about. It's not some sort of outlaw product. Who would benefit if North Carolina moves forward with modernizing and leaving the control model behind.

I think local distillers would benefit. I think consumers would benefit. I think communities would benefit house out well for the communities you would have more more retailers being able to provide. So you would have potentially more jobs you would have more distillers. I believe being able to come about and they lead to a sort of community pride, they they can bring in different different people coming in to check them out. Those are the places just like the craft beer revolution that we see in North Carolina and I think craft distilleries are ready for that kind of growth and how would consumers benefit consumers would benefit because they would have more options. They would have to travel so far in 225, especially in some places, they would have to travel so far in order to find liquor products they want and they wouldn't see their their choices limited by the ABC commission or their prices set by the ABC commission, John, is there an appetite to move forward on a modernization within the general assembly because certainly they would have to be involved in this. There seems to be an appetite. This year seems to be one of those years where people willing to step back and look at it and really rethink it. I don't know it's been a come of it, but it's been really good movement and a really good conversation were having a state this year. And speaking of really good. It's a really good policy report. The report is available@johnlocke.org written by our guest, John Sanders, thank you so much time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week for more Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John lock foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation including donations support programs like Carolina journal radio send email to development John Locke done or call 1866 JL left 166-553-4636 Carolina journal radio is the John lock foundation. Carolina's free-market think tank and Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are solely those did not merely reflect the more the station information about the show or other programs and services of the John foundation, John Locke.toll-free at 866 JL Avenue would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across Carolina and our sponsors.

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