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Carolina Journal Radio No. 878: Voters’ Super Tuesday choices set stage for November elections

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
March 16, 2020 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 878: Voters’ Super Tuesday choices set stage for November elections

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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March 16, 2020 8:00 am

Joe Biden’s win in the Democratic presidential primary topped the headlines, but voters made other significant choices in North Carolina’s March 3 election. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, analyzes key primary results. He looks ahead at the potential impact for the general election in November. Government rules can have a major impact on the food we eat. Sometimes those rules stand in the way of local entrepreneurs. Donald Bryson, president and CEO of the Civitas Institute, discusses the harmful impact of overly burdensome regulations. He makes the case for “freedom of the fork.” State lawmakers continue to look for ways to increase safety in North Carolina’s public schools. At least one legislator is raising concerns about schools failing to follow common-sense safety measures already supported by state law. Rep. Keith Kidwell, R-Beaufort, shared his firsthand school safety assessments with colleagues during a recent meeting. The 2020 election campaign has brought major political players to the Tar Heel State. Former Republican presidential contender and current U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas led a recent campaign rally in Raleigh. Cruz contrasted conservative and liberal approaches to political and policy debates. Few people know much about the costs associated with health care. A Greenville surgeon is trying to make the process more transparent by offering cash-based services. Julie Havlak, Carolina Journal associate editor, reports on that surgeon’s story. She discusses reaction among other health care providers, including hospitals.


From Cherokee to current tagging from the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome Carolina Journal radio arbitral guide during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our stake government regulations can place unnecessary barriers on the food we eat one free-market activist in North Carolina makes the case though for freedom of the fork state lawmakers continue to look for ways to improve public school safety. One legislator though raise concerns with his colleagues about schools ignoring common sense ideas that are already permitted under state law. The 2020 election is bringing political heavy hitters to the Tar Heel state.

You'll hear highlights from a recent speech from US Sen. and former presidential contender Ted Cruz and you learn the story of a Greenville surgeon is cash based services offer an unusual level of healthcare price transparency. Those topics are just ahead. But first, Donna Martinez joins us and she has the Carolina Journal headline while the candidate field is largely set for November's general election with North Carolina once again to be the subject of talk and intrigue as a battleground state at the national level and with all sorts of fascinating races for statewide office here in our state. Carolina Journal is covering all the key races Rick Anderson as editor-in-chief, he joins me now with a look at some of these very interesting matchups. Rick welcome back to the program.

Thank you.

I am a race for governor of North Carolina and we know that Democrat Roy Cooper, the incumbent wants another term but always got a real challenger yesterday and forced to turn Lieut. Gov. one. His primary but I think by a somewhat surprising margin use representative Holly Grange from Hanover. Kaylee Forrest got 90% of the vote in the primary, which is very interesting because he got a higher percentage of the vote. The Roy Cooper got his race is Ernest Reese who essentially was a placeholder on the ballot. I think he is three sets of the thousand dollars with a spinning his campaign and Roy Cooper had who knows how much.

But but is Forrest versus Cooper the race. Everyone's been expecting since about January 20 17th and so we will see what happens after those are two people with them pretty different views on a number of issues. Any thought Rick as to what might be the key issues that will come out in this race will Gov. Cooper is going to run against the Gen. assembly basically and by Stan Forrest as a proxy for the general assembly since as the lieutenant governor. He is the president of the Senate, but also Cooper gave indications in his victory speech on election night that he was going to be on the on the road a lot campaigning for Democrats up and down the ballot so he's going to be someone who is not just concerned about his campaign, but about the fate of Democrats primarily in the general assembly where the Democrats are not too far away from being able to conceive with tech majorities in one big factor that will impact those down ballot races that will be most analysts would say who the nominees, the nominee for president is from the Democratic Party at the time you and I are talking, we don't know yet that we don't. We know that the VP Joe Biden got a big surge of super Tuesday and that privately there are a lot of Republicans who would be very happy if Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont were the Democratic nominee because it would be easier for down ballot candidates to run against Sanders and they would nest electronic after Democratic opponents. They would simply say, well, you will elect a socialist and we try to put their opponents on the defensive with VP Biden is a camera that's harder to do. You can certainly run on the record that the vice president has dispositional issues but it's much easier to say run against the socialist of the money just for vice president who is on the left and on the Republican side, it would not be a cakewalk for Dan Forrest at with Donald Trump at the top of the ticket because there certainly controversy over on Pres. Trump in his behavior the things he says and tweets, etc. likely the Democrats would say to Dan Forrest take your embracing the president United States who is divisive in their view and that's why the Sanders pic if it's if it is interested in credit side neutralizes that a large extent because both of them both center Sanders and Pres. Trump are very polarizing figures in their own way unifying to their base but they are certainly not shrinking violets and so it's the sort of situation that that will make it to the dynamic change completely depending upon the Democrats of the calculations are likely to go on behind the scenes with their campaign strategist as to how to handle it. Depending on how things look at the top of the ticket, while for the number two job in North Carolina. Lieut. Gov. this is really fascinating because them at the time you and I are talking, we have one candidate for sure. For the Republicans Mark Robinson but were not quite sure on the Democratic side right.representative Yvonne Holly of White County is took the lead, one about 26% of the vote. The winning candidate needs 30% to avoid runoff and she's gotta be running against a secretary Van Dyne from Buncombe County who had just barely finished in second place was a very tight race among the top three contenders and Sen. Van Dyne advertise very heavily outspent representative Holly by a lot and still did not come through. I think for the substance subtext of the super Tuesday election was at wake County before really really well Democrats in wake County did great Democrats certainly provided the margin of victory or the margin of lead for Yvonne Holly and this is going to be interesting race because a lot of Democrats are asking Terry Van Dyne not to request runoff and as of the time recording this. That decision is made. Yet the Republican side Mark Robinson that maybe a name unfamiliar to some of the electorate.

Yes, he is a political activist African American political activist from the Greensboro area strong Second Amendment supporter give a very fiery speech before the Greensboro city Council about his Second Amendment rights and went viral that went viral. He won 32 1/2% of the vote in a field of about 12 candidates which is varies, but which unusual in a lot of ways. One thing the hot high profile people who are also running for Congress woman when a Elmers is in the race, Mark Johnson, the superintendent of public instruction was in the race couple members. The Gen. assembly spent a good deal of money didn't score very highly in that and so it's very likely that if we don't will fill the runoff in the Democratic side would have our first African-American Lieut. Gov., perhaps in a lot more long-haul time if not forever. Not sure what happened in the 19th century. I can't recall my head out of my head, but the so that would be a landmark election. The other thing to do in discussions. I was thinking about you. Mark Robinson is not really well known and a lot of Raleigh short political circles and this candidacy reminds me a little bit of representative Mark Walker in the Greensboro area who had an incredible on the ground grassroots campaign when he looks surprisingly won both the primary and the election in the sixth Congressional District. I believe it was in 2014 and people didn't know it but he really worked, grassroots well and I think Mark Robinson is of the same thing and so it's going to be a very interesting race. In that regard. You mentioned a name that Tara is now essentially out of a job and and that is Mark Johnson who is the current superintendent of public instruction, but he wanted to be Lieut. Gov. but he did not fare well at all in the Republican primary. So he's out of elective office. Like.we got 12% of the vote and so a lot of people are wondering why he actually chose that race because it's really difficult to defeat incumbent Council of State members to run for reelection happens very rarely.

Mark Johnson was one people who did it. Actually when he would we want is to have Atkinson back in 2016 but for now he's out of elective office release will be as of January, not a job that he has right now superintendent of public instruction. The fact that he ran for Lieut. Gov. meant that was an open seat and we now have two candidates who have won their race is the Republican nominee is Catherine Truitt, the Democratic nominee is Janet Mangrum, Catherine Truitt is the Chancellor Western Governors University North Carolina campus. She defeated Craig Horne while serving representative from the Mecklenburg County area who spent a lot of money on the race and in the gym.

Mangrum is a UNCG professor who ran against Phil Berger the Senate leader as a Democrat.

It didn't very well but nonetheless she's she's she's of got some notoriety from that race. You have to wonder, considering that in North Carolina we know that year after year.

We talk about how the whole governance of the education system in the K-12 system in the state is really murky. Wonder if these two candidates will weigh in on that in addition to policy issues like this will be a big concern is that what they think about the way the schools are restructuring the fennec finances will be structured another race to follow. Of course, Carolina journal will be reporting on all of these is a you need to stay on top of that Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief Rick, thanks so much for joining us thinking a lot more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign up Carolina you'll receive Carolina journal newspaper in your mailbox each month.

Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles. The powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine a light on it all with the stories and angles.

Other outlets barely cover but there's a bonus print newspapers published monthly by our daily news site gives you the latest news each and every day lot onto Carolina once, twice, even three times a day. You won't be disappointed. It's fresh news if you'd like a heads up on the daily news sign up for our daily email do that Carolina Carolina journal rigorous unrelenting old-school journalism. We hold government accountable for you. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko guy we all eat food.

Some of us spend a lot of time thinking about food, but few of us think much about government rules that limit our access to food that's where our next guest steps and offer help Donald Bryson's president and CEO of the civic toss Institute recently addressed the John Locke foundation's Shaftesbury society on this theme. Food of freedom. Barriers to the fork. Donna welcome to the program.

Thanks Mitch so is poised to be on Carolina journal radio so when you're talking about food freedom you talk about generally talking about one or those government regulations that prevent us from having access to the food that we want to eat. I think we all probably in America anyway, maybe not some Third World countries were in America we have access to sustenance, but where is that sort of entrepreneurial freedom, not to mention just: a freedom right to eat the foods that we want to water those government barriers that prevent entrepreneurs whether farmers or people meeting, making cottage foods in their homes to prevent them from getting into the marketplace that cometh out from the standpoint that government is here to protect our rights and not necessarily to protect us more libertarian point of view and I think that a lot of ways government has overstepped and become more of the nanny state that we talk about all for one and this is something that should be of interest to a lot of people who are foodies and interested in more than just going to the grocery store getting the large-scale big producer version of your foods but but some of the things that small businesses would be create absolutely absolutely the easiest example to talk about regarding small businesses are or what are termed as cottage foods a meter small small-scale foods, a people would prefer in their homes, things like cakes, pies, pickles dried spice packets dried soup mixes that sort of thing in the FDA, the federal Food and Drug Administration set rules or guidelines on this a long time ago. In some states have gone beyond that and said even more stringent guidelines on those and then some states like North Carolina follow the FDA guidelines but then have a few additional labeling requirements and things like that makes it very difficult for people to also try to make a living out of their home because all these requirements you mentioned some of them are these the types of things that that few people outside of those industries really know anything about it is it's it's a very Nice thing you're talking about, you know people who bake stuff in their home. For example, in the. The requirements are such that you know if you if you bake a type of bread was safe you if you want sourdough bread and then you have to go and contact the extension Department of Food science are city harassers you to contact the extension service of the food science department into State University but will test your food so that you can get all the ingredients back to proper labeling. That's $100 per product and for a small time entrepreneur and you have seven different types of bread that $700, not to mention which you have to you know if you're on municipal water than you provide a copy for Bill to show the true municipal water from the world and the state has to come via tester well water all sort of ridiculous things that prevent you from getting into the market and we have to actually know $700 may not sound like a lot of money but we also have to talk about just the chilling effect that having an inspector coming to your home has an entrepreneur we're chatting with Donald Bryson. He is president and CEO of the civic toss Institute, Donald, some people will listen to what were saying in their notes say the back of their mind when of this is food.

This is the type stuff we ingest. It's important that it be healthy. It's important that it be regulated. Is it a case which we don't need any regulations or is it just that the regulations we have are too stringent. I think that is the case in someplace certain there. It almost has to be regulations right on some very perishable foods.

I think it's understandable that there are some regulations but sometimes it's it's a little much and I'll give you an example that you know it in this cottage foods sooner that were talking about if I bake an apple pie or cherry pie. I can actually select any consumer at a farmers market at my home. Whatever let's find in North Carolina, but things are a little bit more perishable. Not that much more perishable, like pumpkin pies and sweet potato pies. We get to the holiday season. I can't sell those out of the home, preserve their view just to perishable. Are we really at a point in North Carolina that sells 40% of the sweet potatoes that we can't sell sweet potato pie like that. That just seems like a little bit must mean there's not sure this subjective reasoning about maybe you're just pushing this a little too far and from that example it sounds. Also, as if maybe there some selective enforcement that that perhaps two types of food that are very similar. One would face no or very little restriction, while another would be restricted so much that very few people would ever want to do it right that that's actually the case. This is a small small item but it's one that illustrate your point exactly which is buttercream cakes cakes with buttercream frosting and every legal opinion that I could find on that will basically like buttercream frosting's very subjective outlook contact your local health department to find out if you can sell it or not. Wait, what this is, in uniform between Buncombe County and White County.

I don't really understand in you when we talk about this. We talk about food freedom. We we do polling civic toss Institute and would we did a poll on back in October in Newfoundland.

Surprisingly, people are very concerned about where their food comes from, found that 71% of likely voters in North Carolina's most the time. Morley sometimes checked where their food comes from labels 86% of likely voters said that it is important to them that their food comes from farms in the United States, 71% again or 72% Seesmic came back and said that it's important them that if the food can come from North Carolina at all that is important to them, so people actually care with her food comes from.

Surprisingly, it appears that self-described conservatives care more than any other demographic. And I don't have the data points on why that is. I think we need to ask a few more questions, but that's very interesting that people like you do care with her food comes from and so the question is why can't we haven't more local if we wanted more local yet sounds of people it sounds as if people want more local food, but government rules might be blocking them from getting access to that. That's absolutely the case, we found that not just of these cottage foods that were talking about.

There's also the issue of raw milk that comes up. What kind of milk you want. Sometimes it's very hard for small small dairy states like North Carolina for people to get access to the food they want. Honey is probably overregulated as a product of the USDA and the Department of our culture. Note: don't regulate hunting itself, but the regulate honeybees and so again another example I like honey and honey on my breakfast this morning and yesterday morning, but if you we sort have a weird sort of regulation about honeybees in North Carolina, municipalities and counties don't regulate anyone who has fewer than five beehives on their property. They can regulate where they are on the property how close the ark of the road and that sort of thing.

But if you take into account that beehives only really make 20 to 60 pounds and every beat of my 2060 pounds of honey per year and someone who has five beehives only producing probably 8 to 25 gallons of honey a year and that's not really enough to you increase someone's livelihood very much in that that regulation is from the honeybee act of honey and honeybee act of 1977 has been regulated in more than 42 years and so maybe we go back and take a look at some of these regulations.

Maybe at a time when we need more pollinator insects and and you leave it. We have a honeybee crisis in this country.

A pollinator crisis. Maybe we let entrepreneurs have more hives on the property and try to keep you know municipal regulators off the property was more and more of us are thinking more about the food that we eat. These are the types of things to deftly keep in mind the work of regulators that can help prevent some of that local food from getting to you.

Donald Bryson is president and CEO of the civic toss Institute.

Thank you.

Mitchell's pleasure a lot more on Carolina journal radio in just a moment. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now.

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Don't forget log on to today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation. Welcome back Carolina radio. I mixed coca North Carolina lawmakers continue to look for ways to boost safety in public schools a special statehouse committee could propose new safety measures this year. Meanwhile, at least one committee member has concerns about safety measures. Schools already should be taking Republican representative Keith Kidwell of Beaufort County recently outlined those concerns for colleagues. They include items such as the proper role of school resource officers or SROs of concern to me is visited most of the schools my district and for the next week will be everyone is love.

The same questions we've got to do something to make sure the basic safety measures are followed, such as observed SROs sitting in the offices in many of the schools. I think they thought their job was chair warm while the children were were going about the schools instead of doing things like checking doors and checking the parking lots and things of that nature. I also noted one particular school nine doors that were left unlocked with direct access to the outside.

That's not acceptable. What I'm hoping that these basic things will also consider when we make recommendations is that SROs have job responsibilities and build fulfill on a regular basis to check up on the school.

Another issue I ran into his parents. Cameras on doors to cover those doors from an appropriate effort that didn't work. These bare necessity items or something would have to make sure that we address what we look at this. I would also suggest that we do this is as quickly as possible as I impressed upon one of the superintendents and Mike and more my counties when I called about nine doors unlocked. He said never address that at our next board meeting is that excusing what time today can you solve this problem. So I told her. He looked out the escorting us. Let me rephrase the questions you understand what time today and you address this problem. This stuff is important. These little things that should be done.

SROs not sitting penned up in an office in the middle school building where they can see what's going on cameras that are functioning locks are not Locke basic things you would think their relation understand of each of us thickly on this committee should take some time and go around and visitor schools and see what they are and are not doing and try to impress upon them to do the proper thing until we get this legislation out the hopefully will motivate them. That's a state representative Keith Kidwell Republican for Beaufort County. He's outlining his concerns about safety measures within public schools in his district.

Kidwell sits on a special statehouse committee, it could recommend new safety measures for the full House and Senate to consider this year term with four Carolina journal radio where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time that's listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation look back Carolina journal radio.

I mixed coca the 2020 election campaign is bringing some heavy political hitters to North Carolina. Among them Texas Sen. and former Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz Cruz started a recent rally in Raleigh with the joke about the years. First big election controversy is the is Cruz also focused on the presidential impeachment. They were living as their 13 hours a day before you couldn't speak in the impeachment session. He found another way to reach constituents and the American people at large is doing everything I could believe the Bible to explain what was going on is is in charge and became the number one Cruz.

Since people want accurate information.

As part of the American people as is and that US Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas speaking recently in Raleigh. He turned his attention to the Democratic presidential contenders so they are probably years ago in the mainstream. There is a racing so Cruz places the political contests in a larger context between socialism and his will will is Cruz emphasized North Carolina's importance in the national political picture is Carolina's is possible United States for the election said, and decided you thousand or even a few hundred Cruz warned his audience about what he labeled the crazy left and will turn the other side so will was also award his conservative audience to avoid mimicking the bad trades of their opponents will love you as is and that's US that are Ted Cruz of Texas speaking recently in Raleigh as part of the 2020 election campaign will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment real influence. You either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call.

We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life.

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Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors.

The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio and Donna Martinez. If you've ever had surgery. You already know it's a maze of consent forms, insurance paperwork and a lot of jargon that really isn't the easiest to understand but one surgeon in Greenville, North Carolina is taking the mystery out of at least one aspect of the whole ordeal he is offering patients transparent cash-based prices generally have lack is associate editor of Carolina journal.

She's been reporting on this innovation in the delivery and cost of healthcare. She joins us now to talk about it Julie, welcome to the program. Thank you. First chance to talk with you and hope it's the first of many times that you appear here on CJ radio tells about Dr. Wade and his eerie glazing. What's he doing. He is a surgeon. He started out at the local hospital and many of his patients were getting surgery for weight loss surgery and that's often not covered by insurance, and so many of them were coming to the hospital uninsured and if you're uninsured and coming to the hospital. The chances of you getting a huge bill are astronomical because he, unlike most people, you are don't have an insurer protecting you from something called charge master rates which essentially are set in a way that I've heard one surgeon compare compare it to the Arabian bazaar. Whatever you go up as an American looking nave like it might be worth a dollar he's gonna] up the price to hundred and you will maybe bargain it down to 80 good about yourself. The insurer is the person who has the leverage to bargain that down.

It's like being with a local, but if you're alone, odds are you're gonna pay $90 it's gonna be and not 90% flight price inflation and you're gonna walk away not knowing what's happened, but you have a huge medical belt.

This was happening to his patients had one patient who paid. I want to say $54,000 for weight loss surgery. He provides the same surgery for less than 20,000 was that even possible that he can cut the cost. Part of it is he doesn't have to deal with the middleman. He doesn't have to deal with insurers.

He doesn't have that paperwork on the other part of it is so much of that is actually just profit.

Many of our local hospitals are sitting on billions in unrestricted reserves and that's not counting the money they funnel into building projects, restricted reserves and various foundations.

So essentially he isn't making. He's not.

He's in his own words.

He's not can be dried up driving a goldplated Cadillac doing this by he try he was so he wanted to reduce cost for his patient so he went to the hospital ministration. He says he offered a price they wanted to charge a fee if it's it's called the facility fee is basically an overhead charge that the federal government lets them charge that was twice the entire price he wanted to charge my gun and then you add in a stage in a surgeon and again the patient is looking at a huge bill so he decided to leave start his own surgery center where he does provide transparent pricing. Julie, one would think then that he's quite a popular guy in Greenville, North Carolina. How is this working out in terms of the competition and their people might knock down his doors to get the surgery he so he just started, so he's working on PR a little bit now, but if you look at other similar cash-based surgery centers like the surgery center of Oklahoma.

They are not only nationally famous now internationally famous, but there also be there, becoming sort of a force of negotiation my own sister has to get surgery soon and I've done looking up the surgeries. Prices on the Oklahoma surgery center. It's a good way to bargain your price down.

If you know what someone can do the surgery for you at least once a huge bill comes might think to question things like for a bag of saline. I've been looking for meaning through people's medical bills. It costs about a dollar and seven cents to reproduce, you would know that from the hospital charges some trouble charge you 44 symbol charges 66 and the big thing is that particularly when insurance is involved and you have that third-party nobody really knows what's going on because those of us who have insurance are used to paying a co-pay and a deductible and then at the end of the whole process you get up a partial bill, but the vast majority of it is taken care of by insurance and and that makes it really kind of interesting to list even understand it's it's certainly complicated in many patients certainly don't know their way around what's happening a lot of patients, it's beginning to change. Now there's been to become some traction. Just because there's been such a focus on. Most people are having an medical data hatch. Struggling to pay for their premiums, especially small business owners, Julie. I'm I can imagine some of our listeners might be thinking that sounds like a great deal. Sherry's a great guy over in Greenville and all that but can someone who is willing to offer a low price like that you what about the quality issue. Is there any concerns about going into someone because D-Day wouldn't be doing it cheaper and less there was something strange going on so the joke is that you should never get sick because you never know what might happen. Medical medical death rates from unexpected met preventable medical mistakes are among the leading causes of death for Americans so you should maybe have some hesitation, however, most of the studies have shown there's almost no correlation between quality and price. Because why would there be so much of what hospitals compete on because quality metrics are often again. They're not transparent. Why would they compete often times at the lobby that matters. If you read unaccountable by Dr. Marty. He has a horrifying story about two doctors one of them was known as the raptor for his unfortunate personality. The other one was known as how dad standing for hands of death and destruction go dad was the charming one. Everybody all of the important politicians because he was charming.

Went to see him.

The raptor who is famous for hands that were just glacial didn't move often ended up operating on the homeless. Again, there is it so hard to find quality you're best off asking people in the healthcare field like nurses where they would go to get there surgery done you know Julie you have been reporting for Carolina Journal on the healthcare beat essentially new. Obviously, here, here, now becoming a wealth of knowledge about this. I need some sort of service I'm coming first to you to find out what's going on but here at the John Locke foundation.

Of course we want more transparency.

One innovation, etc. to try to put some downward pressure on those prices and those costs are you finding that 10 people are starting to understand that even if you have health insurance, it doesn't mean necessarily that your healthcare is going to be affordable. I find that most often it's lesson people are beginning to understand and is much as they're afraid so many of the people I talked to have said they don't want to go to the hospital. They don't want to go to the doctor because they're afraid and frankly that's a tragedy because so many of the doctors that I've talked to don't even know about the bills they just meanwhile by their patients and often times there in a system that stacked against the patient and and we know people in a broken system see a broken system.

We know that we've got to some doctors who are now starting to practice what's known as direct primary care because they want out of the insurance business of even looking at that I have been looking at that. That's fascinating. There is some some really interesting cost savings that are beginning to come out where businesses are beginning to use those as an alternative.

It's certainly interesting. And what about telemedicine, you know right now is you and I are talking the country and the fact that the world is in the middle of the Corona virus and were now starting to read stories about tab public health officials saying hey this telemedicine thing. This is a prime example of why we should be developing this.

That's actually one of the best things about direct primary care doctors as they don't have so many of the administrative coding problems, where getting charging for telemedicine is historically always been an issue, but if you charge more.

It's no longer a more affordable service, direct primary care doctors actually fascinating and that because many of them the movement way they most interact with their patients is FaceTime the telephone and texting which you don't always find what's a pretty fascinating subject. We been talking with Julie Havel actually is an associate editor with Carolina Journal. Julie a pleasure to have you back to thank thank you that's all the time we have for the show this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch.

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