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Carolina Journal Radio No. 911: Voters should pay attention to important down-ballot races

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
November 2, 2020 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 911: Voters should pay attention to important down-ballot races

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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November 2, 2020 8:00 am

The races for president, governor, and U.S. Senate have been dominating N.C. headlines. But voters are making other important decisions in the next week. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, assesses recent developments in races for offices such as lieutenant governor, superintendent of public instruction, state treasurer, and labor commissioner. North Carolina’s popular Opportunity Scholarship program faces a new legal challenge. Plaintiffs challenging the scholarships are tied to the N.C. Association of Educators teachers union. Corey DeAngelis, director of school choice at the libertarian Reason Foundation, analyzed the suit during a recent online forum. North Carolina’s junior U.S. senator secured a national audience during the recent confirmation hearings for a new Supreme Court justice. You’ll hear highlights from Sen. Thom Tillis’ opening remarks in the hearing for Judge Amy Coney Barrett. The COVID-19 pandemic continues to cause complications for businesses in North Carolina, especially businesses like private bars that have been prohibited from reopening. Zack Medford, founder and president of the N.C. Bar and Tavern Association, recently discussed COVID-19 challenges during an online presentation for the John Locke Foundation. The same online audience also heard a broader perspective on coronavirus-related business uncertainty from Gary Salamido, president and CEO of the NC Chamber. The pandemic also has negative effects on students’ ability to learn material in school. Terry Stoops, John Locke Foundation vice president for research and director of education studies, explores the learning loss linked to COVID-19 school shutdowns.

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From Cherokee to current tack and the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I Muskoka during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state North Carolina's opportunity scholarship program faces a new legal challenge. The plaintiffs are tied to the state branch of the national teachers union, a national libertarian expert analyzes the case, North Carolina's junior US Sen. gained a national audience during recent Supreme Court confirmation hearings you'll hear his message about the high court's proper role. The covert 19 pandemic continues to have a major impact on the states businesses you hear from a representative of bars and taverns in North Carolina along with the head of a statewide business group possible explore learning loss among students affected by public school shutdowns during this pandemic.

Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us and she has the Carolina Journal headline.

Election day is Tuesday and even with massive numbers of North Carolina voters having already cast ballots either by mail or through in person early voting.

Massive numbers of people are expected at the polls as well. Several key statewide races are expected to be pretty darn close and Carolina Journal is following those races, Rick Anderson as editor-in-chief, he joins me now Rick welcome back finally working to make it through the election, so this'll be interesting. We been talking for a very long time about this, so, so good. That's right, the lawyers are hovering. We talked to several times about the race for governor that's had a lot of media attention, but Lt. Gov. is sort of under the radar tell us about the two major candidates Mark Robinson and Yvonne Hawley are the two candidates about Holly is serving a general assembly to the Democratic side of Mark Robinson is a motivational speaker is a commitment to advocate for Greensboro.

Whoever wins will be the first African-American Lt. Gov. in North Carolina history and so this important race. In that regard of polling has the race for leaving with problems and perhaps a slight lead part of it has to do with the fact that the governor's office is really not crucially important for setting state policy and so a lot of people don't know much about either candidate. And so that's us were set for the problems in this pretty controversial things he said in the past that he's walk away from some and not from others, and Holly had it really has a very visible campaign at all. So it's it's it's a it's an important office but it's one that has drawn a lot of attention, but as you said historic no matter how the race turns out, so will be watching that one on election night and will also be watching the race for superintendent of public instruction. Education is always front and center in North Carolina just because it's so important so much state money and federal and local money also spent on this but this year because of the pandemic education has been front and center to people but you have kids or don't have kids, we have a Democrat and Republican Jen Mangrum, the Democrat Catherine Truitt is the Republican.

How do you see that one again very close race to contrasting candidates very much especially with school choice with Helsing.

Students should return to the classroom, either in person, full-time or part-time. Jen Mangrum has been very much towing the line of North Carolina Association of educators of keeping kids out of school as long as possible until the pandemic is over Catherine Truitt who was the who is the Chancellor of Western Governors University North Carolina branch has been one to say kids need to get back in school. Since possible to save. She supports the opportunity scholarship program.

She supports charter schools.

She got the endorsement recently of the State employees Association of North Carolina which was a big surprise that happened but yeah it's for one thing, in addition to the local educators who are semi-members of the MCAT. Their lawful support staff and schools of these are all state employees are blocks Eric or you are part of the state retirement plan. Like other local employees, local governments, but they said that Catherine Truitt is been much more responsive to their to their needs and issues looked after more than classroom teachers basically is what they said is very interesting it was. It was surprising endorsement to one that she appreciates, but again should be very close race: neck and neck on that one as well. Okay. State treasurer Dale Falwell is the incumbent, and you got Ronnie Chatterjee who is the Democratic Party's company right Dale follow the incumbent has been somewhat again very closely aligned with the state employees Association of North Carolina. The work he's done to maintain the stability of the state pension fund during some very rocky times of financial markets are working to improve the finances. The state health plan to try to drive down the cost of the state health plan, both for members and taxpayers are Ronnie Chatterjee is somebody who had basically has been serving as the blue public voice of the hospital Association.

He's gotten money from all of the big players, lobbyists in the in the in the state who are working on these financial issues and is very interesting in that typical you think Republican is a candidate of big business and the Democrats Canada. The little guy in this case is exactly the opposite, that the Dale Falwell has gotten the support of the grassroots and and Chatterjee is gotten for the big guys Falwell is done a lot to try to bring control of the investments in house in the Treas.'s office is to have the treasures people to handle management of the funds and not form it out so much to 1/3 party investors as his predecessor, Janet Cowell did Chatterjee has been saying basically that he can turn it all back over to the big investment firms, and so there's a huge contrast, there, and Democrats, especially really want to knock off Dale Falwell because they think that he really poses a threat to some of their very valued interest groups and now mine is really fascinating sort of flipping the typical political dynamics that Onyx had really got between us two candidates right. We also have three seats for the North Carolina Supreme Court that are on the ballot entities is a 7 Seat Ct. People may not even realize that we do elect members of our state Supreme Court, unlike at the federal level of courseware there nominated and voted on in the U.S. Senate.

Three seats up tell us about why this is considered such an important year. While this is an important year because since 2016. The balance of the court has shifted.

These are partisan races. For one thing, the balance of the court is shifted from a 43 Republican majority. Now I 61 Democratic majority in the three seats that are up could depending on the outcome bring it back to the gateway for three Democratic majority or a 70 Democratic majority. And if that indeed happens it will have a huge impact on all sorts of policymaking issues.

The courts generally speaking, Republican judges on state courts have tended to be more critical of some of the moves that Gov. Roy Cooper is made in emergency management and the like.

Democrats have been more willing to let him to give him all along more slack in his leash if you will, is he's been working on the pandemic and so if there are concerns that separation of powers of the state will be very much shifted toward the governor's office executive branch.

If Democrats even hold, serve, let alone take all seven seats, so these are partisan races so folks can find out which of the candidates are Republicans which are Democrats. And in fact or that piece of information into all the stuff that goes into how we make our decisions as to who were in about four minutes. He races hoping that everyone remembers to vote for the North Carolina Supreme Court seats as we close out Rick, her last chat before the election, Dan Forrest and Roy Cooper for the longest time Roy Cooper held a substantial lead in pretty much every poll, but recently it's close to bit hesitant Cooper was around eight or nine point fairly safe lead. It now looks like, but in the polling it's more like about 45 point race. One thing that will happen is how voters respond to the continuing action toward the pandemic. Do they think that keeping emergency orders in effect literally forever is something that that they're willing to do to continue doing because Dan forced to sit, he would reopen businesses faster than the governor Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal. Be sure to check in several timesaday@carolinajournal.com also on Facebook on Twitter.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

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Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I Mitch coca a lawsuit challenging North Carolina's opportunity scholarships is attracting national attention.

Cory DeAngelis is director of school choice for the national libertarian reason foundation. He discussed the suit during a recent online forum.

DeAngelis started by rebutting key claims in the lawsuit reason for that for anyone to prevent families from choosing school for the children is to protect the monopoly system. They want to keep these low income families in schools that are not adequately meeting their needs. That's the reason for this, and I just want to hit a couple of the cortical the constitutional arguments against this or just bogus. They don't discriminate. Does it discriminate on the basis of religion. You can get a scholarship. Regardless of your limit religious background or sexual orientation doesn't discriminate based on religious religion just like Pell grants don't discriminate based on religion.

You can take Pell grants to religious or nonreligious private or public universities of your choosing. Children can still choose to remain in their public schools.

Even with this program. The public money going to Serbia public benefits argument is absolutely ridiculous here obviously getting a better education serves the public benefits and imaginative people were arguing like the teachers unions are arguing in North Carolina that public dollars must go to public institutions with a lot of other programs like Pell grants.

First of all I care to mention they can be used to private institutions. Pre-k programs those dollars go to families and families depict public or private providers of pre-k services stamps you can use those and a whole host of different private providers of groceries like Walmart whole foods Trader Joe's so this will public dollars, public school thing is just a pretty ridiculous argument. If you think about it for more than two seconds, especially when the private schools are doing a better job at providing a good education accountability argument, private schools or directly accountable to the families if they aren't families can vote with their feet and take their money elsewhere. Unlike the traditional public schools.

Why are so many families for thousand families North Carolina leaving the public schools in the public schools are cortical.

More accountable than the private schools.

The reality is that they're not because there monopoly and monopolies are accountable to individual families. DeAngelis says North Carolina is not alone in facing challenges to school choice.

There's so much of this going on another state as well as at the same kind of attacks that were seeing here North Carolina I think it's especially egregious here to attack a program targeted to the least advantaged students North Carolina so this is kind of worse than usual.

But we are also seeing things in the charter school sector as well in places like Pennsylvania and California and Oregon. The teachers unions actually lobbied to prevent families from having their education dollars. All of them to charter schools, which in any other year would've been fine that you could've enrolled you could've enrolled in the charter school sector. So, in California, for example, since the monies not calling the child as a result of Senate Bill 98 out there that they just passed one one charter school in particular reported that they had to put 500 already admitted students back on the waitlist so there's no other sport a court case coming out in California in support of the families Oregon teachers union did the same thing lobbied to make it illegal to enroll in virtual charter schools Pennsylvania dead Pennsylvania Association for school administrators explicitly mentioned that they were lobbying to do the same thing because they were fearful of losing money. It's overseeing the several overseeing teachers unions protesting the main problem is that were funding the system and not the students.

If we fund if we gave the money to the families liquid like you doing North Carolina with the opportunity scholarship program.

It won't really matter if the school reopened or not. If a particular school reopen or not because then you could take your children's education dollars elsewhere in the Walmart doesn't reopen. You can take your grocery money elsewhere. That's Cory DeAngelis, director of school choice for the reason foundation, speaking in a recent online forum. It focused on a lawsuit challenging North Carolina's opportunity scholarship school vouchers. DeAngelis challenged the popular argument against vouchers. It involves accountability for private schools. It's just baffling for someone to try to come out and make the argument that the school that everybody's fighting really hard to leave to exit in the schools that are fighting to prevent families, particularly low income families from leaving those of the somehow the more accountable ones.

I just might give me a break that that just doesn't make any sense to me that that private schools are the ones that families are seeking out there obviously more accountable to the needs of the individual families. So I think it's I mean it's it's it's it's weird confusion with top-down regulations with quote unquote accountability just you know having a certain regulation in place and checking a box doesn't mean you're actually producing good educational outcomes for students and doesn't mean that families are satisfied with the education or lack thereof of education being provided to two families and their students, families are very satisfied with the North Carolina opportunity scholarship program. Over 12,000 families are using it and that's why there opting out of their government run school voluntarily and knowing that their only getting about 40% of the funding that they would've gotten for their children in the traditional public school system. So how was the school system that people are leaving and leaving $6000 behind somehow more accountable to these families that are voluntarily leaving it just average. I just got when I was just a ridiculous argument, DeAngelis addressed a particular claim in the lawsuit challenging North Carolina's opportunity scholarships. One parent argues that her only private school options are religious schools.

She doesn't have a nonreligious private school in her area but that's akin to saying that Pell grants are unconstitutional. Overall, just because one particular family may live in a community where there is in a nonreligious private university.

At most, you would think out be absolutely ridiculous to say that the overall Pell grant program is unconstitutional and discriminates on the basis of religion, which in reality it doesn't because you can help. Regardless of your religious background or your tenant gender identity, but just because there's one family that lives in an area in a small town that doesn't have a nonreligious private school that obviously want to make Pell grants. Overall unconstitutional. Similarly, the North Carolina opportunity scholarship is unconstitutional. Overall just because of this one situation in a particular town. Should the federal government played any role in this process.

The answer from a libertarian policy analysts shouldn't surprise you locality the federal government has a role in education and it also but also I also understand that we currently have federal government involved in education so given the situation we have with you a percent of funding of the coming from the federal government and K-12 education.

I think a step in the right direction and would be to have that funding go to individual families instead of governments to ship so you can still be a libertarian and and and and support a move at the federal level which would empower more families to have educational options on looking at you Rand Paul center from can US Sen. from Kentucky who just introduced recently. The school act which would take nearly all federal existing dollars in the school system, which happens to be around $60-$70 billion on an annual basis and would allow those dollars to follow children. Instead, government institutions, the families would still have the choice to stay in the public school system. So the dollar still could remain in the public school system at the Publix was actually writing a meaningful education, but he and his bill. It would also allow these families to use the money at a private school or or even homeschool option as well on so it's essentially education savings account. I think that is a step in the right direction towards funding students instead of systems that I just got point out again.

The this almost no other taxpayer initiative funded initiative that I can think of that sense of funding the way that we set up funding in the K-12 education system in the K-12 education system.

The norm is that the money goes to the building in the system regardless of the choice of the family with food stamps, Pell grants pre-k program. Section 8 housing vouchers, Medicaid, Social Security dollars.

Even if you have that taxpayer funding for those initiatives. The funding goes to the person we can do the same thing and K-12 education is just completely bonkers that the money is somehow owed to the institution rather than the individual. The monies meant for it is supposed to be met for educating the child. It should fall the child to wear it wherever they're getting education. Just like with these other programs that's Cory DeAngelis, director of school choice at the libertarian reason foundation. He speaking in a recent online form. It focused on issues related to a lawsuit. It challenges opportunity scholarship school vouchers and North Carolina literature with four Carolina Journal radio and about. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now.

You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina Journal.com reporting input takes Carolina Journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James G. Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council.

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Try it today. North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina Journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina Journal. Follow us on Twitter at John Locke in the sea and at Carolina. Journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina Journal. Don't wait for the morning newspaper.

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Follow us on Twitter at John Locke NC and at Carolina. Journal. Who knew you could shop and invest in freedom at the same time it is true online shopping is now a great way to support the John Locke foundation just shop using the Amazon smile program and designate the John Mott foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop Amazon donates money to pass the John Locke foundation, Curaao line on to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile is the same Amazon you know same products same prices. But here's what's better. Amazon donates 0.5% of the price of your eligible Amazon smile purchases to the John Mott foundation to try it. Be sure to designate us as the nonprofit you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation Boca back Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy in the thick of a reelection battle North Carolina Sen. Tom Tillis still took part in the confirmation hearing for the new US Supreme Court Justice Tillis's opening statement highlighted the confirmations importance this nominations important because it's going to have a lasting impact on the Republic addresses service on the bench involved every important issue facing our constitutional Republic. One of the limits of abusive and intrusive government power was the proper role of each branch of government. One of the fundamental protections that our Constitution grants all Americans. These are foundational questions for the Supreme Court may consider them every single term but is not the rights enshrined in the Constitution is most important is the structure of the document itself that ensures her freedom, justice, delay understood. This is fond of saying every dictator in the world, every president for life. As Bill of Rights, that's not what makes us free.

What makes us raise our Constitution. Think of the word constitution means structure. Justice Alito went on to note the genius of our founding generation is that it dispersed power across multiple departments.

The real danger to our constitutional Republic decentralization about anyone part of when that happens literally does in turning rings.

That's why it's critical that Supreme Court justices maintain the proper role they decide cases they don't make policy. In recent decades the court is directed towards a trend where the size majority disputes over policy rather than reserving those decisions for the American people through acting through their elected representatives. People like those of us in the U.S. Senate. Article 3 judges cannot and should not be policymakers. What about the nominee herself. Appeals court judge Amy Kony Barrett Tillis gets a positive review, my review of Judge Barrett record commences me she's not only one of the most qualified individuals are renominated, but she also understands the proper role of the article 3 branch. She reaches conclusions dictated by the law, not personal preference. That's the right thing to do. Judge bears rulings are meant to be for against a particular policy outcome.

She's not a legislator that's our job. However, with a minority can get their bad policies passed in Congress, they turn to the courts to demand that judges interpret the law not as written as they prefer, her opinion simply order the outcome. The law dictates is passed by Congress of politically accountable branch nothing more nothing less. My Democratic colleagues claim to care about the First Amendment of the Fifth Amendment of the 14th amendment if they care about our constitutional liberties than they should care about confirming a judge who understands the proper role of the Supreme Court rights granted by nine can just as easily be in the barn. That's US Sen. Tom Tillis discussing the nine members of the US Supreme Court in their proper role in our system of federal government will return with four Carolina Journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina Journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet.

And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast Locke is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right light Carolina Journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with us. Listen to Carolina Journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina Journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation Boca back Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy shutdowns tied to covert, 19 if hit plenty of North Carolina businesses hard among the hardest hit private bars that do not operate as restaurants. Zach Mitford is founder and president of the North Carolina bar and tavern Association.

He recently discussed his industries challenges during an online presentation for the John Locke foundation. The big issue we face is that North Carolina's private bars have been mandated to be close since March 17.

We figure we would be included in the phase 2 reopening it happened in May 11 hour, we were informed that while restaurants with bars in them to reopen. If you're a prybar you're not auto with the entire summer, not in us. The this happening right March 17. I was beginning of the bar season lower high season.

We do March through the end of the summer is really a big topic. Bars and many do what he did in the colder months of the weather will stay home more often, when you're your stop all the money made in the summer to help pay your bills for the winter. While this that we pay our bills for the winter and whenever.B posted the revenues coming from spring so we are already behind the eight ball on top of the that insult to injury my bars right next to restaurants every night I see lines out the door and all these restaurants I see giant crowd gathering out of the sidewalk way to get these restaurants they can go out and have some drinks listen to a lot of music or unit sing karaoke.

Many restaurants that were early bar for him to become bars because it's probable nursing record revenue in certain places on many small restaurants are deftly struggling with some of these larger places across Raleigh and Charlotte are discussing sales right now. In our experience, but for some reason it's not dangerous for folks to go to these restaurants and have a drink but you never read this. I wonder bars the same thing day the governor finally after seven months. Allow bars over their outdoor space at 30% capacity were stone a lot of anybody indoors. Many bars North Carolina don't have any outdoor space just there's no end in sight really doesn't feel like anybody's doing anything to help us make it through this from a policy standpoint we got some better solutions than to say oh well bars are safe when the bankruptcy and let me bars. It was over somebody else, and reopen artwork.

Mitford takes issue with government decisions that don't seem tied to a coherent plan.

The uneven rollout that we have seen is so sweet status of state in half measure after half measure were not any better off than we were before. This thing is not under control and even with all the lockdowns and keeping Marsha where maladies were now red zone North Carolina's cases are going up but same things happening in the cities that had looser restrictions and actually work with small businesses to help them stay afloat. I don't think we really set ourselves apart by always lockdowns. Aside from it on the businesses that would make a bankrupt. If getting be under control requires a full lockdown and do the full lockdown with a limited time. Picking and choosing winners by saying although Lowe's and Home Depot are essential to the little hardware store on the block is much smaller election of the others, too small, you can do it safely is completely wrongheaded and as captives causing devastating impacts. Of course the barn across all small businesses in our state and for me, especially with bars. If you do to bars closed does not stop people from going out and gathering together I see more parties in my neighborhood around town this summer that I ever saw this because people know where else to go, so they just ran out or be in the house to go party.

There so early stopping spread. We are just moving people away from a heavily regulated space like my bar Brian voice security guards I have are sinners.

People that can help enforce the mass mandated social distancing. I can actually control the crowd when a party at her house or in the garage or whatever.

I made it. It's no holds barred. Affixing a lot of extra steps Zach Mitford, founder and president of the North Carolina bar and tavern Association is discussing his industries challenges during the covert, 19 pandemic Mitford discussed the toll shutdowns are taking on bar owners across the state.

It's extremely hard when world feels halfway normal for everybody else, but for you. Basically that you lost through no fault of your own. You lost your entire livelihood and you know what what what we do.

I have all this money and time invested.

My businesses know I can operate this property to get another job or start something new I'm just stuck here at home.

I like as I walked in the lines outside the restaurant get bigger and bigger every weekend. I will my bar so start writing checks, pay the bills try to negotiate my way and ridiculous employees just long enough so that we did not go but I can start paying back the background. This is depressing start days started to get excited when you get up in the morning and there's nothing for you to do unless I got three healthy sons keep my life pretty entertaining site some time with them not have the benefit of the light ultimately provide for their future. If I lose everything that I've spent 12 years my life Billy Mitford says government officials who shut down businesses need to find a way to make up for the lost business ultimately appears that it is not safe or varsity over the data stay close until next spring. Okay, the need to find a way to help me both pay my bills. Also see my family programs like PPP didn't provide any monies made for myself is able to put my employees back on the payroll and give the money to one of those light everything for them to do was dominate weeks so convince myself as an owner who bears all dividends would gotta come up with a way to protect on floors like me know what is at 70 made rich or to receive the kind of a because they were opening in 2020.

We need at least some kind of support healthy was on her feet.

So the time does come to return to normality were still around and it just doesn't feel like that helps, some really ugly once we get the stress of of the election season off are just an we can get a plan written down all those people are cynical outside of bar owners every day now that say I've been famous actually doing this the right way.

20 years and I always think of the government confronted help me out when I needed another when we need it most. When I did anything I think it was a lot of trust from people like me going for it is hard not to become cynical so I really don't have problems recognizing addressed as soon as possible. Looking beyond the situation for bars and taverns.

The John Locke foundation also welcomed Gary cell amido Pres. and CEO of the statewide NC chamber. He boiled down businesses goal to one word certainly think closing out 2020 to have a plan to have some ideas about what they can watch what they can monitor what they can see going forward that is going to help them plan for 2020 certainty and I think also in 2021. There is a take it you know, instead of doing the annual budgets now.

For example, or are doing quarterly so there to be looking quarter to quarter there and not do you notify your strap class and I can do three year strip certain that there is a do a one year plan and maybe 1/4 to quarter plan maybe half a year because there's so much uncertainty out there. I think you also 20, 21, you will see caution you will continue to see no MI going to make this investment to get it to get shut down again because the combination of flu season encoded causes someone you know to determine that we need to perhaps even go backwards and in some of our where we are there. Also saying you know we know a lot more now they're just going to take it slow and they're gonna be cautious because it's uncertain that's Gary cell, amido of the NC chamber. You also heard from Zach Mitford of the North Carolina border and tavern Association both took part in a recent online form for the John Locke foundation. It focused on the business impact of the coping 19 pandemic in North Carolina, will return with more Carolina journal radio in about really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina.

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Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse, the envy of every other state. Our research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Dina Martina's North Carolina school kids have finished up the first quarter of the school year. Sam, 100% virtual some hybrid of virtual and in person learning. The question now is what comes next for the kids for the teachers for the faculty for the parents of Dr. Terry stoops is the John Locke foundation's vice president for research. Also, the director of education studies. He's been looking at this question writing that parents should really be alarmed by some of the decisions that are continuing to keep their kids out of the classroom. He joins us now with a look at why Terry welcome back.

Thank you. Give us your your sense of the science and the health risk when it comes to kids and coping 19 health risk is really minimal to kids and the staff that work in public school, so long as they take reasonable measures to ensure that they have a clean environment in their schools. I mean we we have seen, for example, schools that have been in person that have initiated in person learning for months now have very few cases of covert, 19 no fatalities and have been able to manage the in-person classroom. The adjustments in person classroom in the age of covert without without any risk to the students for the staff and and and so you know we we as we learn more about covert, 19 I think we understand that schools aren't the super spreaders that everyone thought they would be this summer and that it really is safer. Kids go back into the classroom.

In fact you writing your new piece that that folks can read@johnlocke.org that people should be very concerned if their kids aren't either. Back in school in the classroom or moving rapidly towards that tell us why. Yet, we were fortunate that more schools, more public schools in particular are starting to move back into a in-person instruction. I even know that there is around 1/4 that are still insisting on having remote learning for the remainder of the calendar year, and sometimes even beyond.

But the learning loss that's produced the longer that the students stay out a is really what I focus on in this piece. Students who are participating in remote learning plans, learn less, than they would in the in-person environments wears tremendous amount of research that backs up the fact that a remote learning plan is inferior to in-person instruction and therefore there is learning that's lost in between them.

So if you think about the fact that students started remote learning in March and some continue in remote learning environments through the beginning of the start of the school year. That's a tremendous amount of time and a tremendous amount of loss in what they could have learned had they been in the classroom and there are long-term fiscal and economic implications for that learning loss, what is it mean for those kids if they're simply not learning because the environment just can't support what they need. Education is cumulative so the further they fall behind. The fewer skills they're able to acquire, the fewer skills that they're able to acquire means that though have a more difficult time getting through school and may drop out, therefore depriving them of the necessary credential or the go into the workforce with the minimal amount of skills and not be successful in this will have a significant effect on their earnings. There was one estimate that is students if they fall for further enough behind will lose up to a year's worth of salary through their lifetime if they have to endure continued learning loss due to covert 19s, remote learning push so that this is the real concern is that students, especially those that can ill afford it. These are mostly low income and and minority students that that have this level of learning loss can have significant be a significant detriment throughout the that's so fascinating because in your paper that were talking about right now available@johnlocke.org it's really the first time that I have read some in in-depth depth analysis of the long-term implications were so focused on right now what is it mean for you and take care your kids when they're learning in the home, etc. but you're talking about a lifetime of implications.

Here, Terry, is there any way to avoid this, or to make up the ground that's been lost. The first step is to get these kids back into the classroom and is much as possible. Resume the typical type of in person instruction that really benefits these kids the. The ways that we make up for these learning losses will mean that we have to radically rethink the way that we provide education, especially to low income and ethnic racial minority students is that we may need to add time to the school year and the school day.

We might have to institute some intensive tutoring and take other measures to ensure that the students catch up and this is not really something that our system is very good at of being able to adjust and to a different environments in providing supplemental services for students who need them the most. And that's why I think that there are ways that we can provide the services using school choice mechanisms such as ESA's are vouchers to providing supplemental services to the children something that other states are actively exploring right now. Essentially the money following the child and then the parents can decide what that child needs. And that's can be different from from child to child absolutely and and we know we will know what the student needs. Once we start getting back into standardized testing because of another disturbing part of this whole story is that we don't know how far behind.

Students are because we suspended testing at the end of last year and we don't have active state testing going on right now and we may not, depending on the outcome of the elections have state have a standardized testing required for the current school year, so we don't really have a very good sense of where students stand, but I think there's a great deal of expectation in the research that that's been done tries to model the learning loss. The expectation that student can be anywhere between 1/2 a year behind some more than a year behind in school and it just gets worse the longer they're out of school. Terry women talking about the North Carolina public school system here. How are private schools handling this. Are they facing the same challenges and in following the same course. It varies of course from private school to private school, but there are some private schools that have been in in person learning since late summer. They lose academies in North Carolina chain of private schools has been conducting in person instruction since July. I know that the Catholic diocese of of North Carolina. The two dioceses are conducting in person instruction in many of their schools and their doing social distancing in and hand sanitizer and masks and there have been no evidence that these schools are perpetuating or spreading covert, 19 even if there are no a regular number of students in the classroom or or typical class size there's no evidence that it's being in it that there's any harm to the students of the teachers so we know what private schools are doing.

We have evidence that they're doing in person instruction successfully and that there are very few clusters associated with in-person instruction and yet the difference in policy and procedure and activities between the private schools you've described, and the North Carolina public schools historic why the private schools don't have to listen to the governor and the public schools do and so the governor is basically creating a situation where school districts are waiting on him to decide what they can and can't do private schools don't have to do that and I think they've really benefited from not being restricted by the governor's executive orders and being able to make the best decisions for the kids in those schools. Thank you and thank you for joining us on this edition of Carolina Journal radio on behalf of my cohost Michiko Kiam, Donna Martinez help you join us again next week for more Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John Locke foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation donations that support programs like Carolina Journal radio send email to development John lot or call 66J 11 166-553-4636 Carolina Journal radio is a company of the John lot foundation. Carolina's free-market think tank and Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are solely those did not clearly reflect the opinions of advertisers or the station. For more information about the show for other programs and services of the John lot foundation visit John lot.toll-free at 866 JL and would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across North Carolina and our sponsors. Carolina Journal radio. Thank you for listening.

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