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Carolina Journal Radio No. 908: Barrett nomination highlights left-wing attacks on Constitution

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
October 12, 2020 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 908: Barrett nomination highlights left-wing attacks on Constitution

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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October 12, 2020 8:00 am

Reaction to the nomination of federal Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the U.S. Supreme Court offers a reminder of progressives’ continuing attacks against the U.S. Constitution. Jon Guze, John Locke Foundation director of legal studies, analyzes Barrett’s nomination. He discusses the attacks Barrett faces because of her conservative jurisprudence. As the Supreme Court returns to action, Ilya Shapiro of the Cato Institute looks back at the court’s key rulings from its last term. Shapiro also discusses recent trends on the high court and looks ahead to major cases for the new term. The COVID-19 pandemic has raised plenty of questions about N.C. public schools, including the best way to address the problems of struggling students. State legislators recently discussed the topic during a debate about pandemic-related legislation. Gov. Roy Cooper is allowing public school systems across the state to reopen school buildings for elementary-age students. Middle and high schools remain shuttered for in-person instruction. During a recent news conference, mothers pleaded with Cooper to reopen all state public schools to students. You’ll hear highlights from their comments. North Carolina taxpayers would pay the price if the state changes its law against public-sector collective bargaining. Terry Stoops, John Locke Foundation vice president for research and director of education studies, highlights a new report that tallies the potential costs.


From Cherokee to current tax and the largest city in the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events.

Welcome to Carolina Journal radio amateur coca during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. The covert 19 pandemic is raised a lot of questions about North Carolina public schools, including the best way to help struggling students you hear highlights from a recent legislative debate on that topic whereby a group of mother's went public with pleas to Gov. Roy Cooper. They want the governor to reopen all public schools to in person instruction repealing North Carolina's ban on public sector collective bargaining would cost state taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars you learn why and an expert from the libertarian Cato Institute helps us look back at key cases and trends from the Supreme Court's last term. Speaking of the nation's highest court. Donna Martinez tackles that topic in the latest Carolina Journal headline a 48-year-old Court of Appeals judge from the Midwest.

A mom of seven and a former law professor could become the newest member of the United States Supreme Court. Amy Tony Barrett is set to face incredible opposition from Democrats to Pres. Trump's nomination of the appeals court judge to the court.

Who is Amy Connie Barrett, John Bizet's director of legal studies at the John Locke foundation is an attorney himself. He joins us now to talk a bit about the nominee John, welcome back to the shelf Tri-Star what we know about Amy, Connie, Barry, well she's she's really just an exceptional pick. She's a brilliant legal scholars know know nobody argues that point. She's also just wonderful human being, a remarkable human being I'd say a great lady. Somehow, she has combined academic career a judicial career and a career as a homemaker. She's got seven kids to adopt one with special needs, and she's managed to do to raise them all beautifully and have two exceptional careers so my hat is off to her.

I just admire the heck out of there and I really think she's a great prick doing know much about her judicial philosophy. What we know a bit. We know that she is a self affirmed originalist. She believes that constitutional law should be applied as their written and that if there's any uncertainty about the meaning of the text is should be interpreted as it was understood the meaning should be what it was understood to be at the time it was written or ratified, as the case maybe. I believe she's actually described herself as in line with the late Ted Justice Antonin Scalia for him. She actually clerked.

I think that's a very fair description from what we know.

I think one of the things that means is she's probably going to be very better than some of the other conservative justices on things like searches and seizures. She's going to be a strict constructionist when it comes to the protections of the Constitution and from our point of view, that's excellent. Is it accurate or fair John to say that if she is confirmed to the Supreme Court that would transform the court well transforms a big word. The court has a lot of inertia. There's a lot of sense of all amongst all the justices that you know there's an institution here that they need to protect so I wouldn't especially don't think is going to be a revolutionary change, but it's very important. All the same, because it means that we, barring some unforeseen duster retirements will have a good strong originalist majority on the court for the first time ever, and I think that will make a difference going forward. She is, of course, Pres. Trump's nominee. Now the national Democrats oppose not only her nomination, but the timing of her nomination due to the fact that an election is coming up, tells about the opposition. What is the concern of those who are Democrats are or are to the left of center. Well, I think some important background here. That listers may not all be aware of a series of doctrines got implemented in the 1930s and 40s, which really transform the court from what it was supposed to be, which is an institution that resolves cases and controversies are come before.

Based on the laws as written into what amounts to a super legislature under the new doctrines, especially the so-called living document school of judicial interpretation.

They can now make laws and they've done that, and unlike laws are made by Congress. There's nothing that the public can do to undo them you can't vote them out of office because are appointed for life. This is very frustrating for people to like those laws and I think there's many many laws that have gotten public attention, but I think the one is most evocative, the most emotional is abortion. The Supreme Court created a national right to abortion out of whole cloth.

There's nothing in the Constitution under any kind of reasonable originalist interpretation that would support a right to abortion, but they made up of all the land in all 50 states.

That's been very frustrating.

So in fact that law has been in place now that ruling for roughly 50 years or so when you have folks on the left to oppose the nomination of Amy Connie Barrett saying hey we think she's an overturned it just for the sake of discussion, John.

Let's say that one day Roe versus Wade was indeed overturned, however unlikely that that might be.

If that occurred with not just mean that goes back to the states to decide for themselves. Of course it would where it belongs and you know even back then 50 years ago most states had already taken steps to liberalize abortion laws and by now it's clear that almost every state would have very liberal abortion laws and is hard to see why the left is worried about. This is got large majorities of people all over the country who take the same view, they do about abortion about same-sex marriage about all kinds of issues that the Supreme Court is weighed in on what it shouldn't should be a decision to be made by legislatures.

That's all John there's also a lot of discussion from the opposition to Amy Connie Barrett that somehow or another. This could be the end of the affordable care act Obama care that she could be a deciding vote that would throw out the constitutionality of that health insurance program. Thoughts on that. Oh, I don't think it's very likely I think there is a question. Severability if it was going to come before the court is a question about whether the. The.

The mandatory coverage requirement. See Nigel mandate the individual mandate may not survive, but I think it's unlikely that would bring down the whole act really that's that's this is this is this is a matter for Congress and all the court has to do is interpret the laws which comes before John we know in our listeners. Carolina journal radio who heard you on this program before know about your respect, it or the United States Constitution. Also, the North Carolina Constitution you have written very and Carolina about concerns over the laughs and I'll use this phrase war on the U.S. Constitution. You write about the early 20th century and how things seem to change a kind of referred to it when you talked about the creation of sort of the super legislature at the United States Supreme Court help us understand more exactly what's happening and why we should be concerned about that progressive views of the court will say two things about it is certainly true that what happened in the starting in the teens. The progressive movement was very anti-Constitution. They didn't like all these limits on government power that worked and worked and eventually got the Supreme Court under pressure from the Roosevelt ministration to adopt doctrines that would so it was thought weakened the court and make the court stop interfering in Roosevelt's economic regulations. Ironically, what ended up doing is making the court more powerful because now the court can make laws the way it did in the abortion case and Congress can't do anything about it and Congress and the president, but cars to pass along the present assignment and the Supreme Court could still say is unenforceable. Even if there's nothing in the Constitution that clearly prevented they can interpret the Constitution. Anyway they want. That was bad enough, but what worries me these days as we see a much more virulent kind of anti-American anti-Constitution attitude which says tear it all down. We can start over and do better. We see all these riots all over the country.

Hundreds and hundreds of them. Now by antique black lives matter, and others.

In these people, many of them are explicitly said they wanted, and put it into the American Republic. I think it's founded on racism if it is founded on sexism they think they can do better. But if history teaches us anything after revolution we don't end up with something better. We end up with something terrible.

John is a is director of legal studies for the John lock foundation. He writes frequently about not only legal issues but the U.S. Constitution and the North Carolina Constitution and very fascinating legal cases that come up as we make our way through 2020. John, thank you very much for joining us to talk about leisure got a very nice to stay with his post-mentor Carolina journal radio to come in just tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign you'll receive Carolina journal newspaper in your mailbox each month. Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles who the powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine a light on it all with the stories and angles. Other outlets barely cover but there's a bonus print newspapers published monthly by our daily news site gives you the latest news each and every day lot onto Carolina once, twice, even three times a day. You won't be disappointed. It's fresh news if you'd like a heads up on the daily news sign up for our daily email do that Carolina Carolina journal rigorous unrelenting old-school journalism.

We hold government accountable for you that Carolina journal radio I Mexico guy as the US Supreme Court prepares to head back to work. Were looking back at key rulings and trends from the high court's last term getting help from Ilya Schapiro. He's director of the Robert a Leavy Center for Constitutional studies at the Cato Institute. He's publisher of the Cato Supreme Court review and he's author of the new book supreme disorder judicial nominations and the politics of America's highest court.

As you look back at what happened during this last term of the Supreme Court. What stood out most to you.

First of all, this is the year really became the Roberts Ct., Chief Justice John Roberts presided over Donald Trump's impeachment trial remain number that seems like a different world then he navigated the court through an unusual pandemic driven telephonic oral argument and Roberts was in the majority, more than anyone, including 12 of the 13 5 to 4 decision, so he's really driving the courts anonymous early is a swing vote, but kind of an anchor or a driver of where the court will go as far as fast as only he wants the first case I want to mention is what we thought was going to be the first Second Amendment decision in over a decade New York State rifle and pistol Association versus New York, New York City had an unusual rule that said you can't take your lawfully licensed firearms outside the city for any reason, the city defended its rule through the through appeal to the Second Circuit once it got to the Supreme Court. They kinda chickened out and go see the writing on the wall repealed the rule in the state legislature said no municipality can have such arousal became a mootness question. In the end is 6 to 3 vote, the court didn't rule that this was a mood case. Although Justice Cavanagh writing in concurrent said look we have all of these good petitions coming up. So I agree with the dissent that the court needs to address the issue soon and along the framework that the dissent suggests well. Couple months later, the court denied all 10 pending Sir petitions raising Second Amendment and a whole host of ways whether the right to carry concealed or open restrictions on magazine capacity lots of different things.

The court could've chosen, but that turned them all down, presumably because John Roberts told his colleagues that he was not a reliable vote on this issue did want to take it up the same day, the court denied the slew of qualified immunity. Sir petitions the V idea that government officials and it's very hard to hold them liable, whether were talking about police educational administrators any kind of government officials holding them liable is very difficult because of this doctrine.

Notably, Justice Thomas dissented both from the denial of the Second Amendment cases and the qualified immunity cases and you know Mitch, it was a big day because the same day that those denials were issued.

The court decided boss stock Bost versus Clayton County the big employment discrimination case where justice course and writing for the majority found that title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibited discrimination because of sex already included protections on having an adverse employment action taken or sexual orientation or gender identity. This is a battle of textual list and ultimately I think Justice Cavanagh on dissent probably had the better of it saying look, forget even try to get into the minds of Congress in 1964 or what the words because of sex meant in 1964. Even now, even in 2020 if someone fired for being gay. We don't say that there fired because of sex so more stitches take was kind of hyper literal licks literalist in a way that speakers of English language. Generally, wardens wouldn't use it. And there was a lot of concern after this decision. A lot of renting of garments, particularly among conservatives about whether Ariel Gorsuch has shifted to the left of what this means for religious liberty, and it turns out, Gorsuch generated in a trio of cases on religious liberty. I ended up the most protective, most notably that there is a case called Espinoza versus Montana Department of revenue, which by 5 to 4 vote removed what I consider to be the last of federal legal obstacle to the expansion of school choice programs were there particular trends that you saw was a term that was hard to characterizing every year reporters. Pundits try to sail the court move left early. The court moved right but it's not like over the summer. The justices take a vote and then decide or even each individual justice decides okay this Jeremy to be more liberal or more progressive or conservative or what have you just nature of the kinda docketed as an those high profile cases. I didn't mention also Dhaka, where the court voted 5 to 4.

Another John Roberts opinion of preventing present come from. From my rescinding docket even though Pres. Obama put it in as a simple executive action. Also on abortion to do medical case where John Roberts again said I I disagree with that with the president from four years ago, but I'm not hold to it and only on those lines prevent Louisiana from putting in a regulation that threatened to shut down some abortion clinics but at the end of the day when you go beyond those kind of very very high-profile cultural war cases you look at the numbers of the 13 5 to 4 decisions, nine of them have the conservative justices sticking together and only three had one of the conservatives defect to join the progressives compare that to the previous term. One of the 25 to 4 cases, eight of them had one of the conservatives defect to join the Liberals, and only seven had the conservatives stick together so this is why progressives surely breathe a sigh of relief, but are treating Roberts as the second coming of Anthony Kennedy, let alone David Souter, and I think should Joe Biden win this presidential election this fall will probably see John Roberts vote in a more conservative direction now and I don't think this is necessarily a good thing that is voting not necessarily on his legal theories are his is his vision of the Constitution or statutory interpretation, but that's the way that he sees his role as that of a protector of the institution of the Supreme Court and anybody can judge the court so-called legitimacy or the public confidence in it, but these kinda machinations to my mind detract from the court being seen as a as a legal institution. What are some the main things you're going to be looking at in the term had a handful of really big cases none of which are going to be ruled on before the election strictly but for example whether Philadelphia can ban Catholic social services from participating in their foster adoption programs because they won't place kids with gay couples. That's Fulton versus Philadelphia or Delaware is one of a number of states and other government bodies that designates by political party members of in this case there are 3 Highest State Ct. so no one party affiliated person can or or no no no party that has affiliations to be more than a bare majority of the state Supreme Court, for example, reserving all other seats for the other major political parties of that kind of affiliation and restricted limits. Does it discriminate unconstitutionally against, say, libertarians are independents or socialists or or or what have you out of case of Carney versus Adams Obama cares individual mandate, whether it's constitutional. If not, one of the rest of the law has to fall.

Then we decide to say years ago. Well yes, but in the intermediate time Congress has that changed tweaked while he zeroed out the John Roberts is a tax penalty for not buying insurance, what consequences that have is the case of California versus Texas very significant and ended with her going to argue the ad other controversial ones as well.

I'm sure that is the voice of Ilya Shapiro. He is director of the Robert a Leavy Center for Constitutional studies at the Cato Institute and publisher of the Cato Supreme Court review. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you.

Mitch will return with North Carolina internal radio and just about if you have freedom we got great news to share with you now.

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Be sure to designate us as the nonprofit you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation. Welcome back to Carolina jewelry DOI Michiko guy the covert, 19 pandemic is raised questions about struggling public school students Republican state representative Craig Horne discussed the issue in a recent statehouse committee meeting. We talked about probably get better behind caught up for years. This is not a phenomenon of covert, although certainly covert, has exacerbated my personal opinion, we lost a year of education progress already argue or understand is arguable since we haven't been on a class a year or or we we not been here since we switch to online learning are and and the sequester that were with which we been involved with a number of things were going to have to look at including the school year and the couches always had a strong view about the school calendar others and some within the house of not necessarily agree with the changing the school calendar to school hours as well as some other options in providing direct support to students all this is a challenge for VA does this another challenge work just for covert it's going to take some very creative thought and a strong backbone because no matter what we decide there's going to be as a substantial number of people you know I'm not participating. The essence of it is to be able to target the kids that need help and deliver an education directly to them and how we do that.

Certainly technology is help us a lot.

But technology is not the only solution. There are are gregarious people. We learn more face-to-face than we do.

Distance. We had a magic answer.

We do not and we are anxious to engage in this conversation with every member of this committee and as every person in the state, but we also realize we don't have a lot of time to waste because were already behind Horne's colleague representative John Fraley offered his own thoughts about helping struggling students. What we do in 2021 and 22 in the summer is going to be critical to this and also say that there's discussion, it goes back and forth is like reading camps in the summer are they more effective than us putting more funding into pre-k or do we have to have bio so I think there is a more in-depth discussion that needs to be held about that you been listening to highlights from a recent legislative debate focused on helping struggling public school students in the wake of covert, thanking her with more Carolina journal radio where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes Locke is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right light. Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time that's listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation of Qubec Carolina jewelry DOI Michiko guy Gov. Roy Cooper announced plans to allow North Carolina elementary schools to reopen just one day after his Republican electoral opponent met a group of mothers publicly called for all school-age kids to return to classrooms.

The mothers met with reporters in the state legislative building.

They shared stories about children's problems with online learning. Among them Tara Dean keep their children how I respect that we all have different situation.

I want to avoid the choice for my children. I'm sick of being used as defined in the political game. I have four children in the North Carolina public schools although they are all suffering today I'm here to focus on my two youngest who are adopted from China with multiple special needs and albinism them kind of impairment visual impairments in our nonverbal attempt to give them the best life possible.

This includes access to every available resource that can help to improve the quality of their lives. However I've not even be able to give them basic education or desperately needed therapies in the last several months special-needs children have been completely abandoned by the district. My girls went from critical routine and schedule a full day of school in a self-contained class with multiple therapy. These included speech and occupational physical vision and orientation and mobility. The day of total isolation, no interest in intervention effects and stating and like to complete regression, remote learning was never and will never be an option for that I can teach a child how I teach a child to speak interactive or use their best vision. Virtual learning cannot be accomplished when your child can't verbalize and will look at the screen. I need to get back to work seven hours a day to dedicate the one-on-one teacher to teach children. I would rather use the money I earned to pay for private services that actually benefit coping isn't killing myself in right now, but they are dying inside from the lack of schedule socialization, education, and due to total isolation. Tracy Taylor is a parent and a healthcare professional.

I have seen, especially the special needs population have been ignored in this pandemic. But the fact of the matter is also that all students are being several school districts in North Carolina as well. Medical advice from a deep group specifically said things that I thought were very important to Dr. Benjamin and how tests are administered the test and take them drive metric overreliance on metrics can be fraught with peril. Younger children are less likely to spread this virus than older children, which is very different than influenza.

They will become cases regarding list of whether schools reopen or not. It's been safer in some districts that reopens that had planned their mental health stressors and effects that are far worse than the physical effects of this virus will be around for the long haul and a vaccine will have supply chain issues that need to get the kids back in school and we can't wait on a vaccine and we can't wait for the metrics to drive my personal eye that the effects are taking a toll on all students. It doesn't matter whether your end of the bell curve. The left or to the right decedents are having way too much screen time listening to highlights from recent news conference between mothers who want their kids back in school buildings.

Michelle Moreau shared her concerns about the states, inconsistent policies, as a nurse in 27 years and a mother of five, I can assure you that we can send our children to school safely since March 15. The goal of our lockdown and subsequent school closures is understandably to protect their children in our school staff from infection. Since that time. Thankfully we've learned that this illness rarely impacts individuals under the age of 20 and has been shown to actually be detrimental to those about 65 who have pre-existing health conditions with Frank splints. Frankly, put in at all times at higher risk of dying from anything since this science now shows that the mortality rate for this disease is comparable to that youngest among us seem dramatically impacted or even possible to spend this disease have to open our schools for in school instruction decisions made over the last four months. Specifically considering concerning what facilities can and cannot function not only illogical.

There also inconsistent.

One example of preschool and daycare for minds have been hoping to serve the needs of children in these facilities are rarely toilet trained explore their world by putting things into their mouths together to play and sleep for the day that the workers in the 30s have been expected to care for. These are most dependent youngest members of our community teachers in elementary age children have been told to stay home clean too dangerous for them to enter school room use of our school daycare for teachers, or even for parent cannot stay at home for their students to watch them and to be with them to teach them this question, we expected to believe children, teachers are less capable of spreading the disease to the other teachers that are using the classes for online instruction and other children in the community. Once again, logical inconsistent line to understand and appreciate that there are teachers and school staff.

At home who maybe compromise and are at greater risk of suffering applications from coping, we must acknowledge that never before in the history of our nation. We close down entire classrooms. Usually when he teaches we find a substitute and hopeful.

I'm hopeful that this crisis is actually going to make us recognize for our education just to be putting information into the mind of a person having an education is so much more goal. Our educational system should be to produce mature, well-rounded, thinking financially independent responsible law-abiding people who can handle stress can handle conflict, and when 18 years old basic option financially independent individuals who have a goal. The goal is not just to get something out to be able to find level for how people are testing education is so much for me to set our children deserve to be put first. Sandy Joyner discussed her family's challenges with covert, 19, and three sons and parent of a senior in wake County schools. I can tell you so many other parents contain their learning has been detrimental to the well-being of our kids in virtual classes, complete assignments and projects and even take tests for school is so much more than that for seniors their social fabric is at its peak. They are naturally essential line to Mrs. last year many different isolation. They are experiencing is wearing them down meant mentally and physically. And I worry for their stability and long-term harm in school is causing this virus. Their ways safeguards in making the rest is everybody's talk about this morning systems around the country making it work, which we should be able to do this in North Carolina to find a way. My son asked me every week. Mom's loan agencies is radio senior leader children school you been listening to highlights from a recent news conference mothers urged Gov. Roy Cooper to allow North Carolina public school students to return to their classrooms. One day later, Cooper opened the door for elementary school students to head back to in person classes will return with North Carolina German radio in a moment really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina.

So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse, the envy of every other state research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you are.

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The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation back to Carolina Journal radio I'm Donna Martinez for more than 60 years, North Carolina has prohibited public-sector unions from collective bargaining at some North Carolina lawmakers are actually mowing the idea of repealing the collective bargaining law. Our next gases is urging caution on a move like that. He says it would cost North Carolinians big time. Terry stoops is the vice president for research. The director of education studies. The author of a new report on this issue and he joins us now to talk about it Terry, welcome back to the shelf. Thank you. You did really extensive analysis of extensive modeling on different scenarios of what would happen for North Carolina. If the law on collective bargaining were repealed and if that were made legal.

Tell us what would cost it would cost between 889,000,001.3 billion and the reason why there's a ranges because there's different ways to collectively bargain some collective bargaining laws do not have rules that make it binding for the parties to collectively bargain for their pay and benefits there somewhere. It is binding, and of course I will cost a lot more. So, it would really depends on the scope of the law that the law of general simile would pass and ends for the parameters that they would establish for the collective bargaining law. Now most of the laws that have been proposed to get rid of the collective bargaining prohibition simply get rid of the line that says you can collectively bargain if you're public-sector employee, but I suspect that if that were to occur, then there would be more added to the legislation that would perhaps change the cost of the potential cost to the state of allowing our public sector employees to bargain collectively were talking 60 years here of prohibition on collective bargaining. So I guess the question is really why now, why is North Carolina now a target not only for unionization efforts, but for collective bargaining efforts will there's a belief in this belief is actually been around for for decades that if you turn North Carolina into a union states and you can turn any state into union state were really a bellwether for unionization. We have one of the lowest rates of private-sector unionization in the nation and work were often identified with South Carolina as being places where unions have the least fortune so that is that. Certainly one area where I think that there are national groups, national unions and employee associations that are looking at North Carolina and thinking that there could be inroads here and if you look at what happened in 2018 and 2019 20 read for Ed movement. Others were walkouts coordinated by the North Carolina Association of educators where thousands of teachers and advocates came to Raleigh to protest the general assembly. There's a belief that that might be a signal that North Carolinians are ready for public-sector unionization to expand and send way to expand that of course would be to allow collective bargaining. What you just brought up is really interesting because the North Carolina Association of educators calls themselves an association but they have been moving closer and closer to that line of union they are the state affiliate of the biggest teachers union right that's right. And they want to be called union.

They have advertisements that say join our union so there is a real push to not only identifies a union but to get the powers that unions have been one of the most obvious powers that unions have is to collectively bargain and that is something that they seek you and that's something that is really part and parcel with their efforts to get certain individuals elected to public office is to make sure that you that they have pro union legislators and Council state members that will be there to begin dismantling North Carolina's wise prohibition on collective bargaining for public-sector employees. Elections have consequences as as we all know, but this is just one more aspect of what potentially we could see in North Carolina. Should the legislature, for example, turn on its political ideology and and the leadership there right now it's under Republican leadership if it turns to Democrat leadership, things could be different. Your report is really interesting because it's not limited just to looking at the education sector in North Carolina. You explore the whole field of unions help us understand the union situation in our state. Sounds likely that private-sector unions, public-sector unions, but collective bargaining is something different than that of the collective bargaining that were talking about is for our public-sector employees which are mostly teachers and state employees and and there some other sectors in the public with firefighters and police. There some some employee associations there so so that's really the dynamic that were talking about is more than just teachers. It's it's public employees in general and is really two mechanisms by which the cost of the collective bargaining prohibition repeal would would impose itself. The first of course is that the public-sector employees would bargain with their employer. You know, you think about what collective bargaining is its negotiation between the employees and the employer dealing with working conditions, salary and benefits, but the other part about it and this is something that highlight in the report is the accumulation of political power. That's that's really where the cost increases arise because as these unions get the ability to collectively bargain. They are able to accumulate more money than secure political power that allows them to later on accumulate more money from their employers.

This is something that's distinct from the private sector where it's all about bargaining with the employers and there's really very limited benefits to accumulating political power. If your private-sector employee union. If you're in the public sector. It means everything to make sure that not only do have the ability to collectively bargain but to use that money to elect people that will continue to feed the beast continue to feed money to the union members and to provide more expansive benefits and and improve working conditions and of course once that occurs, if that does occur in North Carolina that is so difficult. The clawback once Sam that bargaining power has been instituted and the political power has has built up and that's one reason that you're highlighting all of this, some in your report. It's called big government, big price tag.

Collective bargaining equals more power unions and higher costs for North Carolinians political power. That is fascinating in your report that encourage folks to go to John and read this history of unions in North Carolina and interestingly enough, it was actually Democrats in North Carolina who are behind the push to outlaw collective bargaining. Yeah that's right and first when you look at the history of unionization in North Carolina.

People believe that there hasn't been much unionization. But if you look in the early 20th century. For example, private-sector unions were pretty powerful and there in the textile industry and an various industry suspects in the western part of the state. So unionization is been part of North Carolina's history for a long time, but looking at the public-sector unionization and the prohibition on collective bargaining that was coordinated by a Democratic member of the Gen. assembly from Mecklenburg County who was fearing that the Jimmy Hoffa would organize the police and charlatans and there were some efforts to do that. The courts got involved in, rather than in try to do something the courts they just said were going to ensure that this can happen through an act of the Gen. assembly, and in 1959 they passed that time we have for the program this week on behalf of Michiko and Donna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week for another edition of Carolyn internal radio is a program of the John Locke foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation donation support programs like Carolina radio send email to development John Locke called 66 GLS 166-553-4636 Carolina radio is the John line foundation airline is maintaining Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are selling those did not merely reflect more the station formation about the show.

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