Gun Lap

The final lap in your life's race can be your best. I'm so reminded of 2 Corinthians 4.16 that says, Our bodies are wasting away, but our inner selves are being renewed day by day. We can't run as fast as we used to, but our inner selves are being renewed day by day. That's really the message of the book.

Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, author and speaker Robert Waggumeth urges men to stay in the race and finish well. Robert is a prolific author, and this may be his most motivating book for men.

It's titled Gun Lab, and you'll hear about it today. Great to have you along with us. And Gary, this is one of those resources that I know you're going to be excited about. Listen, Chris, this book was written for me, man. I'm on the gun lap. In fact, I'm almost at the finish line. But I'm hoping that guys are going to read this book a whole lot earlier. You're getting ready for the gun lap.

So this is going to be an exciting program. I hope men and women will be listening. Robert Waggumeth is the bestselling author of more than 20 books, including She Calls Me Daddy, The Notes to the Dad's Devotional Bible, The Most Important Place on Earth, What's in the Bible? He co-wrote with Dr. R.C.

Sproul. He's married to Nancy DeMoss Waggumeth, and he has two married daughters, two sons-in-law, five grandchildren, one grandson-in-law. Our featured resource today is Gun Lab, Staying in the Race with Purpose. Just go to FiveLoveLanguages.com to find out more. Well, Robert, welcome back to Building Relationships. Oh, Gary, this is so much fun to talk to you. Thanks for scheduling me for your program. This is great. Well, we're delighted you're here.

Let's just jump into the subject because it's such a needed discussion today. Tell us about the concept of Gun Lab. Well, if you were to go to a track meet and you would watch the two-mile run around a quarter-mile track, that would be eight times around the track. When the race begins, the starter raises his arm in the air and fires a gun, a pistol, and that signals the start of the race. When the lead runner starts his eighth lap, the gun goes off again. So that means he's got one more lap to run, and they call that the Gun Lab.

So I actually saw this for the first time when I was just getting ready to graduate from college. My college was hosting the conference track meet, and the coach asked me to help with the track meet, you know, rake the pits and so forth. And when it came to this race, he said, are you available?

I said, sure. So I actually went to the tower and watched this thing from up there, and it was unbelievable. And that's a long story. I talk about it in the book about a young man named Ralph Foot, who knocked almost 20 seconds off the conference record in that one race.

I mean, it was unbelievable. Anyway, but that was my introduction to the Gun Lab. So two years, almost two years ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. And so Nancy and I talked at length about this season of my life, if the Lord would heal me and what I would do with the rest of my life. And I remembered the Gun Lab. And I said, you know, this is not about dying, this is about living.

So what am I going to do with the time that I have left between now and the time that the Lord takes me home? And so that was the inspiration for writing the Gun Lab. Well, I can certainly understand that. But you're hoping that men, 40s, 50s, 60s, and so forth, are going to be reading this book. You know, you and I might be on the last lap, okay, Robert?

Of however many laps we've had. But I think what you're doing in this book, because I read it and really, really liked it. If men read this, you know, in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, with this concept in mind, and are doing things then, it's going to help them when they get on that very last lap, right? Yeah, that's right.

In fact, thank you for saying that you read the book. And my hope, Gary, is that it felt like a conversation between you and me. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've been friends for a long time.

And my goal really is to find a corner table at a café, pour a cup of coffee, and talk. My heart, your heart, really talking about a very serious subject. There's nothing really humorous or funny about this. This is serious. You know, we feel this. In fact, I'm so reminded of 2 Corinthians 4.16 that says, Our bodies are wasting away, but our inner selves are being renewed day by day.

That is a picture of a man running the gun lap. Our bodies are wasting away. We can't run as fast as we used to, but our inner selves are being renewed day by day. That's really the message of the book. Yeah, and I sense that. You know, just kind of a conversation with you. And I mentioned earlier, I think women would also value this book, because the concept of the gun lap refers to both genders, right?

It does. I am writing specifically for men, because I think it's different. The gun lap starts differently for men and women. For example, I think when a guy is getting ready to retire from his job, or when he's beginning to plan to get ready to retire from his job, that's the start of the gun lap for most guys. A woman starts her gun lap when the last kid walks out the door, and she's looking around saying, I spent my life helping to raise these kids, and teaching them, and cooking for them, and whatever else I did.

Now what am I going to do? So I think it's different, although I clearly, as a man, am writing this book for men. And the truth is, I've heard from so many women who are thanking me for writing this book for the men in their lives. So women kind of look over the shoulder of the man reading this book, and hopefully it's encouraging to them as well. Yeah, I can see how wives, if they understand what this book's all about, would want their husbands to read this book. Yeah, I would sure hope so, that's right.

Yeah. Now you dedicate the book, I found this interesting, you dedicated the book to a young man who only lived 20 years. Why did you choose him? Yeah, well, this is Nick Challies, his mom and dad are good friends of Nancy and mine. And Nick was a student, a college student in Louisville, Kentucky, and he was with his friends, and he just dropped dead. It was like he wasn't sick, it wasn't an accident, he just dropped dead.

Of course, his parents were just crushed about all this. So I was livestreaming the funeral, and his daddy went to the microphone, and he started this way, each one of us is given a race to run. I was in the middle of writing this book, and boy, I'll tell you, my ears perked up and my heart perked up, because I'm thinking, well, you don't know when your gun lap's going to start. You and I don't know how long we're going to live.

The actuarial tables have you and me about 10 years maybe, but if you're 20 years old, that's the last thing you expect. So his daddy, in giving the eulogy at his funeral, talked about the fact that Nick's race had finished. And that was inspiring to me because I am writing to a man, let's say in his 50s and 60s, but you and I never know. We don't know until that time comes. And so I contacted Tim and said, would it be okay if I dedicate this book to your son?

And he said, yeah, that would be amazing. So I dedicated it to Nick at 20 years old, because you and I don't really know. It's God's providence.

We don't know when we're going to die. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Our guest today is Robert Waugemuth, author of Gun Lap, Staying in the Race with Purpose. You can find out more at the website FiveLoveLanguages.com.

That's FiveLoveLanguages.com. Robert, let me jump in here because in the first segment, you talked about something really important, the physical struggles that you have been through. What did that journey do for you as you wrote this book? I think a lot of men live their lives without the end in mind. I'm reminded of the guy who said most guys, the last thing that their friends hear them say is, hey, you guys live your lives without the end in mind.

And that's the end, whatever he's doing. But yeah, absolutely. When I was diagnosed with melanoma and then two months later with lymphoma, I mean, I've been a very healthy man. I've been grateful for that. But when you spend hours getting infusions of chemo, getting transfusions of blood plasma, when you spend time in that MRI tube over and over again, it really gives you pause.

I mean, you can't do anything but just think about what this represents and the brevity of life, the vapor that life is. And I'm not talking about somebody else, I'm talking about me, right? So it's like when you go in for surgery, this has happened to you, I'm sure.

I mean, a number of times. You're gathered in your room and you're saying a prayer, the doctor's there, your sweetheart is there. But when they wheel you down that hallway, you're by yourself. So my goal, well, the inspiration was that I had done that a number of times during what was 2020. But I'm thinking there are guys out there that need the encouragement of a colleague, a friend, an ally, coming alongside them and saying, okay, I know what this feels like. I know the anxiety of wondering what's going to happen.

In fact, maybe the most inspiring thing for me, Gary, was I discovered that I was doing something that I didn't remember doing much before at my age. I was hearing voices in the night. Now, I know that sounds like a horror movie, I don't mean it that way. But, okay, so guys our age can't make it through the night without getting up at least once. Do I need to say any more than that? Got it.

Okay. So you go back to bed after you do that and you're lying there and you're trying to get back to sleep and your mind begins to race. And I found myself, Gary, being very critical of myself. I look back over the day and I'm thinking, I can't believe I said that to that guy or I can't believe that memo that I should have double checked before it went out, whatever.

And I'm finding myself filled with self-doubt and regret and really anger at myself for blowing the day before, for messing up the day before. And so I talk about self-conversation in the book, knowing that guys our age spend time in those wakeful hours in the middle of the night, you know, hearing voices, critical voices. And it's so interesting because when you read the Psalms, I mean King David is our ally in this thing. When you read the Psalms and you realize that David, I believe suffered from the same kind of thing, those midnight voices that reminded him of how foolish and how sinful he was. And here's, I think, the answer to it. Martin Lloyd-Jones, the great Welsh preacher of the last century, writes about this. In fact, I quote him in the book. He says, don't listen to yourself, speak back to yourself.

So when you're lying there and you look next door and your wife is sound asleep, what do you do? You speak to yourself and you say, Lord Jesus, I need to hear your voice. I need to know that you're here, that you care about this situation that I'm finding myself in. You care about the fact that I'm getting older and I'm anxious about that, maybe worried about that, maybe angry about that. And I need for you to be here with me right now. So instead of hearing voices, you speak right back to those voices that are saying unnecessary and foolish and hurtful things about yourself. In fact, it's so interesting, Gary.

I grew up in a tradition way back, and I won't name any names, but a denomination that was very heavy on works and very thin on grace. So I'm on the phone with a very good friend of mine. I'm going to talk about him in a minute if we get a chance.

Ray Orland, who is in his gun lab. He's one of my closest friends. And I told him about this self-conversation thing. Well, Ray grew up in a home. In fact, my wife Nancy worked for his daddy at Lake Avenue Counter-Digital Church in Pasadena, California. So I'm telling Ray about this, and he was quiet.

We're on the phone and he said, I don't have any idea what you're talking about. You know why? I grew up in a home where grace flourished. And, you know, it's so interesting.

So here's the deal. I learned sometimes this is hard. We'll call it pride to forgive myself. It's easier for me to forgive you than for me to forgive myself. That is pure pride, unadulterated pride, because I think I should be better than you.

There was a book written by a guy named Bruce Larson years ago. And he talked about that. And I'll never forget how it felt to read that. And I thought, you know what? That is so hypocritical. That is so wrong that I would have higher standards for myself than other people. And that's pride.

So anyway, Ray said, I have no idea what you're talking about. I grew up in a home that was filled with grace. So it's easier for me to offer myself grace rather than lie there and be critical of myself. So as I've spoken with men, as I talk to men, interviewing them to write this book, I discovered that I really wasn't alone.

A lot of guys lie there and find themselves being very critical of themselves. And again, your body isn't doing what it used to do. So what do you say to yourself when you get out of bed and you can hardly stand up because you're so dizzy? Or your knees are killing you? Or you bump your head when you're getting in the car and you've gotten into that same car a thousand times, but this time you bang your head. What do you say to yourself? I am so grateful for that idea because it's been not two years since I was really, I believe the Lord quickened me to that sin in my life.

It's been a great experience, first of all, to recognize it and then to confess it and then to be freed from it. Yeah, absolutely. The problem with that is a lot of men don't have any friends.

They don't have somebody that can come alongside them. And I'm glad that you're there in book form. But I think part of what you're saying is you need to find another guy or group of guys, right?

That is so huge. If I were to write a book and I don't have time to write anymore, but I would write The Friendless American Male. So I don't want to get too specific because I don't want to reveal anything that's confidential. But very recently I had lunch with a man who I have just barely gotten to know.

We've never had a one-on-one lunch meeting. We've been to dinner a couple of times with his wife and with Nancy, my wife, but I hardly know him. So one of the questions I asked him was, tell me about your closest friends. And he stared back at me across the table and he said, you.

I almost choked up. I'm thinking, what? I hardly know you.

I know the names of your children, but that's pretty much it. So I think guys isolate themselves. In fact, technology gives us an excuse, a reason, a way to isolate ourselves. And I think guys in the gun lab, in fact, this particular guy stays up till 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock in the morning watching Netflix on his computer.

You know, 50 years ago we didn't have that problem. So a guy, in fact, this isn't just true of men in their gun lab, this is true of teenagers. They think that when they friend somebody on social media, that's a friend.

Not even close. So, yeah, I think guys my age, and now I'm talking about late 50s, 60s, 70s, are pretty friendless. And there's no question that a book isn't going to accomplish this, but my hope is that a book will inspire a guy to seek out a friend at church. That's the best place to find one, isn't it? But somebody who you can take to lunch and open your heart, you know, begin a friendship that's at the level that our wives get to without even thinking about it.

Right? Neil Warren, Dr. Neil Warren, remember that name? He was, in fact, he started eHarmony. Neil and I were friends for many years, and he used to ask councilees the question, tell me about your closest friends. So if it was women or a woman in his office, she would say, well, you know, there's Judy and there's Cindy, and just go down the list. Right. So I guess he says, now there's a man in my office. And I say to him, tell me about your closest friends.

The guy looked back to me and back at me and he'll say, like, what do you mean friend? Yeah. Yeah. That's a very sad commentary, I think, on our culture. And again, you know, you talk about what happened in the pandemic. Maybe the most horrible part of the pandemic, this is for children and grownups as well, is that we lived life isolated from physical contact with other people. So, you know, a guy my age, a guy your age has to have a friend. In fact, this is so fun, Gary, to talk like this because I am so on the front edge of a deep concern about men our age who don't have close friends. And what that means, what a friend does is reveal to you what's really going on inside of you. And if it's a friend who dares to love you enough to speak truth, this can be a life changer.

This can be a game changer for a man to have a friend who he can speak to, who speaks candidly to him, who he can cry with and laugh with and do fun stuff together. You know, the interesting thing is college gave us that, right? Graduate school gave us that. You know, our early marriage time gave us opportunities for that. The older we get, in fact, in many cases, our buddies die.

I mean, we've been to far more funerals than weddings in the last seven years, right? So it's a tragic thing. It's a hard thing. So the whole point of Gun Lap is to encourage guys to not stay there, to recognize it. If it's sin, confess it and find somebody that you can love.

Find a man who you have enough common interest that you can play with and laugh with and go to a movie with and have lunch with. It's a big deal, I think. In fact, it's interesting. Many of my friends golf to make a friend. That's the worst venue in the world, to make a friend. Because you don't have time to finish a sentence, right? You pull up to the ball, you get out of the cart, whatever. I mean, it'll take you 18 holes to tell a short story to your buddy. So although I love to golf and wish I was better at it, golf doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

A walk, a jog, a lunch, those things can be really very special. A man to a man. Yeah, I really agree with that golf thing. Guys will say, have a friend, we play golf regularly. And they call them friends. But really, it's just playing a game together. There's no discussion. They don't share life with each other. They don't know what's going on inside each other. It might be a place to start.

You can meet a person playing golf, but it has to go beyond that. Now, I think that is such a key issue in today's world. Yeah, I do too.

I do too. Now, what do you say to men who feel that they haven't lived the way they wanted? You know, they're looking back now, beginning to look back, and feel like they haven't run the first part of life very well.

So they're discouraged about the last lap. Wow. I'll bet you'd be a better judge, Gary, because of the life that the Lord has given you, to answer the question as to how many guys are out there that are feeling that. Living with deep regrets and wishing his story was different than it was. And, you know, let's start with the basics.

What you do is you identify it. You confess it. You make it right with people you need to make right with.

I have a very good friend. In fact, he was a friend to Moody, did a lot of design work, Kent Puckett. Kent had an agency in Atlanta. He was one of the finest designers in the industry.

When you saw an ad or a book jacket, you could tell Kent Puckett had designed it. Kent got pancreatic cancer, and it was stage four, and he didn't have long. And he called me. And first he said, is there anything that I need to straighten out with you, anything that needs to be confessed? I don't want to die with anything left undone between you and me. And I said, oh, Kent was a gentle man.

He was a very special guy. I said, no, not at all. Then he said, do you know how I could get a hold of, and he mentioned a woman who used to work for me at Thomas Nelson Publishers. I said, well, let me see. He said, I've got to talk to her. And I spent the next hour or so trying to run down contact information for this person, because Kent wanted to talk to her and ask her forgiveness for something that he had done decades before. And he felt the Lord prompting him to make that right with her. So to answer your question, you look back over the span of your life, and you ask that hard question, is there any unfinished business back there?

Is there somebody that I need to call and confess and ask forgiveness for? Can you imagine, Gary, if we would start a movement of men doing that? You know, it's so easy to compete. When I married Nancy, she was 57, never married. She didn't know a lot about men, I'm going to just say.

She had a great relationship with her daddy, which was a gift to me because she knew what it meant to trust a man. But I said, here's what men do. They compare and they compete. But for them to be open and honest and transparent with each other is hard work. So you compare, you compete, you wrong a guy, you say something behind his back, you hurt him intentionally, whatever. Just take a look back over your life and ask yourself that question. Who do I need to contact?

Who do I need to call? And it's much better to call than to write. I'm just saying you don't necessarily want a permanent record of that. But call a guy and say, you know, this may sound crazy, you may completely forget this, but would you forgive me for what I did? And honestly, I don't want to make myself to be the hero here, but I do have a story. About 50 years ago, I had the privilege of standing up at a wedding with a colleague, a college classmate of mine. And I did a stupid thing at the reception.

I mean, like this, you Google stupid and this story will show up. And I did it kind of on a dare. I got a chain, I mean a serious chain from the hardware store. At the reception, I put this chain around this guy's neck.

Like he's getting married, right? This is supposed to be funny. And I put a padlock on it. And I threw the key out into a field.

Now, again, foolish, Google it, that picture is going to show up. I carried that for almost 50 years. This guy lives in California. I had no contact with him. And by God's grace, about a year ago, this guy called me. He called me because he had heard that I'd gotten sick.

And I cannot tell you, I'm going to cry thinking about it. I can't tell you how grateful I was to hear his voice and to realize who I was talking to. And I said, I got to tell you, his name was Arnie.

I don't think he'd mind. I said, Arnie, I have to confess a really stupid thing I did. You were at your reception and I replayed the story. And I said, I'm not telling you that I'm sorry. I'm asking you, will you forgive me for doing such a foolish, thoughtless, unkind thing? Do you know what he said?

I don't remember. That's what he said. If that isn't a picture of the cross, I don't know what is, right?

It's Jesus from the West. But I held that in my heart. And so it was hurting me. So even though Arnie did not remember that I had done that, I remembered it. And I remembered that that was unfinished business in my background.

So what I would say to a man listening to this, and to you, to you and me and to Chris and Andrea, look back over your life, be Kent Puckett and say, is there anything I need to get squared away with you? Far better to do that when I have air to breathe and words to speak than having somebody stand next to my casket and say, oh, I wish we had made this right before you die. Wow. That's powerful. I agree with you. I think there are things in probably all of our lives that if we take time to look back and reflect on, and asking God to help us and show us those things was a huge step. It is.

Yeah, thank you. Now your father had a big impact on you, but there was one scene that you write about in the book. Talk about what he said to you when you asked how he was doing. Yes, my father did have an impact on me. And what I would say is every father has an impact on his son. And sometimes those are adopted fathers and adopted sons and so forth.

But every father, whether he likes it or not, has a powerful impact on his son. In fact, you know, sometimes I'll look at my face in the mirror when I'm shaving. And the guy looking back at me is my dad. I'm thinking, wow, I look like my dad.

I can't believe it. So anyway, my dad died of a rare disease that they thought was Parkinson's, but it wasn't. So he was on Parkinson's medication.

It wasn't helping him at all. So he was really, really frustrated. So I walked by his study. He's sitting on his chair.

He's got a newspaper open in front of him. And I walked in, I said, can I come in? He said, sure. He was a gracious, gentle man. And I knelt down next to his chair.

He folded the paper. I said, Dad, how are you? And he didn't answer right away. And he said to me, he said, I feel useless.

I'll never forget this as long as I live. He said, I feel useless. This is part of what we're talking about here. But it used to be that you got frustrated because your email inbox was jammed full and you were behind in all kinds of correspondence. Or regular mail came and you had stuff you had to do or meetings that you had to prepare for, whatever.

In this stage, your phone is quiet. You don't get as much mail as you used to get. You don't have a group of people who answer to you. You're not a boss anymore.

You're retired or whatever. And you feel useless. I mean, men get their self-respect, their self-worth by doing things. And if they can't do that anymore, they can lose the joy and feel useless. Like my daddy said, I feel useless. And it was a great moment. I was glad I had this before my dad died. I said, tell me why.

Tell me why. He said, because, all right, so when the family gets together and the young people, the grandchildren, they're talking, they're talking technology, they're talking downloads, Spotify. He said, I have no idea what he's talking about.

He said, I feel lost and I feel useless. In fact, I talk about this in the book, about technology. I mean, I use a computer every day.

I use a cell phone every day. But it doesn't take much for me to get lost. And I need some help, right?

In fact, I find myself saying, I need a seven-year-old to fix this. Okay, so in fact, when I was writing this book, Gary, this will get your attention because you're a writer. My computer was telling me that my hard drive is full. And so a young man who helps me with this kind of thing, I turned it over to him and he screen shared, right? So I'm sitting looking at my screen and my cursor is dashing around and stuff. I had to go to lunch and I came back. Long story short, I lost 30,000 words of this. And I don't mean it took me a while to get it back.

I mean it was gone forever. That's kind of a metaphor of how it feels because technology moves so fast and you and I are left in the dust. So that's another way that makes us feel useless and old and like we can't keep up with stuff. And it's so interesting. When we were little boys, our daddies knew more than we did, right?

Now our older guys need younger people to help navigate all this technology because the world runs on technology. And if you're not up to speed or if you don't have somebody that you can go to and help you with stuff, you'll sit. In fact, yesterday my screen went black. I'm not kidding. I'm working on another manuscript and my screen went dark.

I couldn't start it manually. It went dark. I just sat there staring at it and I thought, here we go again. It's not funny. Guys our age. And younger people don't, I mean they're natives, you and I are aliens to all of this, right?

Yep. So that's just another way that guys our age, guys in their 50s and 60s and 70s can feel lost and like my daddy said, useless during this period of time. So first of all, let's not forget that the Lord Jesus knows exactly what we're going through. And I find myself on my knees more than I've ever been on my knees, just pouring my heart out and confessing that I don't know what to do next. That I'm frustrated, that I'm feeling useless, and I would never say that I have ever been depressed, but maybe close to that these days, these years. Not knowing what's going to happen.

Losing friends to death. I was in a conversation with a guy whose name you would recognize so I wouldn't even begin to think of telling you. But this is a guy that's been in my business, the publishing business, for my whole career he's been a dear, close friend and he's brilliant.

He is a brilliant man. He knows book publishing, he knows books, he knows authors, and I hadn't talked to him for a while and I called him. Gary, it sounded like he was sick. I said, are you okay? He said, no. He said, tell me. He said, well, I retired.

And he said, I woke up this morning and I stared at the ceiling and he said, I said to myself, there's no reason for me to be alive. If you had told me that a good friend of mine was going to say that, he would be the last guy I would ever have thought. This is a serious subject and it's one that men need to be free to talk about. In fact, our buddy Bob Lapine, I know you know Bob, is a pastor of Little Rock and he took a group of 30 guys through this book.

And he said it was an amazing experience, not because the book was that great, although I think it is, but that it gave guys a chance to unload, to open their hearts, to confess this stuff, their fears, their frustrations, the idea that they might feel useless these days. I talk about marriage in the book. Oh, what a huge thing to talk about because the chances are much better than not that your wife will stand by your casket. You've got a few years probably to love her in a way that maybe you've never loved her before and serve her in a way that maybe you've not served her before.

I mean, again, that may be one of the most important chapters in this book because it's easy. You see older couples at a restaurant and they're just staring at each other or even at that age looking at their phones and I'm saying, oh, put it down, please. This is a precious woman who has given her life for you and she needs your undivided attention right now. Love her like you've not loved her before. You know that I got married late in life, Nancy did to Nancy, she got married late in life. And we decided, this is going to sound crazy, but our anniversary is November 14th. We're just about getting ready to celebrate our 74th anniversary.

I'm not kidding. 74th anniversary, we celebrate months. Why not? Monthly, yeah, why not?

Why not? Why not celebrate every month the fact that the Lord gave you this amazing woman to be your maid? So those kinds of little secret things are hiding in here that I think are going to be a huge encouragement to guys our age.

I really agree with that. You know, as I read that whole thing on retirement and what happened so many times, as you know, guys just go home and they don't have anything to do and they don't live long. I'll share my own experience, Robert. I officially retired from our church staff the end of July of this past year after 50 years on the same staff.

Oh, Gary. That may be a record, I don't know, as an associate pastor on the same staff. But my pastor at the time, he said to me, what could we do for you? I said, if you would allow me to have an office and if you would allow my assistant to continue to be my assistant, that's the greatest thing you could do for me. He said, really? I said, yeah, yeah.

So they did. I've been at the office every single day since I retired, you know, and I plan to go as long as I got energy. And my assistant is more in tune with technology than I am, so I'm saying five or six times a day, could you help me with this one?

Could you help me? Now, I know that not everyone is that fortunate, you know, to be at a job where they could ask for that and actually get it. But I so agree with you that when we retire from our job, whatever it is, we need to have something that's on our heart to do.

Because if we're not doing, I think we do get to that place where we feel like, you know, I'm useless. Well, this is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, and our guest today is Robert Wagometh. He's the author of Gun Lap, Staying in the Race with Purpose.

You can find out more at FiveLoveLanguages.com. Coming up, the power of loving your neighbor straight ahead on Moody Radio. Robert, just before the break, Gary was talking about his own experience.

And as I'm hearing him, I'm cheering him on and I'm pumping my fist in the air because that's it. Gary is really living out what you're talking about. Oh, that's so good to hear. God bless you, Gary.

Way to go. I talk about one of my heroes, and he's gone now. He's in heaven. He never knew that he was one of my heroes, but this is actually the dad of my sister-in-law. I know that sounds like a hairdresser story, but this is my brother's wife's dad. So it was my brother's father-in-law. His name is Don Cargo.

I'm happy to say his name on the air because he's one of my heroes. When he turned 80, he learned to play the piano. He learned Spanish. He took his grandsons to the Northwoods to go fishing. He did not stop.

Physically, he was able to do that. It's so interesting that you have to get up and get out. And we get invited to do all kinds of stuff on the internet, right? Learn to play the piano. Learn Spanish.

Don Cargo did those things, and he was, at the end of his life, about the most delightful man you've ever met. Our buddy Colin Smith says every great life change begins with a single decision. A single decision. So you and I are sitting there and we're feeling useless, or we don't have a stack of work to get through.

Make a decision to do something significant. I've learned a new way to love my neighbors. One of the worst things that was ever created was the electric garage door opener. Because that gives me permission to pull into my garage and close it behind me and not speak to my neighbor who's out there mowing his yard. I have learned to love my neighbors like never before in my life.

Ever. Because I have time. I have time to get out of the car, to walk over, to ask how he's doing. I learned that his son made the football team and we talk about that.

I am loving the extra time that I have now because the demands on my time in life are less than they used to be. And finding something that you feel is meaningful. That's the whole key.

You talked earlier about the marriage relationship in these years. What do you suggest to women married to men who are entering the gun lab? Alright, I've got a word. Patience. Patience. Don't finish his sentences. Give him a chance to, you know, do you lose words, Gary, when you're talking? Sometimes, yes.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. So your wife, in fact, your wife can be your friend in that. Because the chances are, I'm not a doctor.

I don't even play one on TV. But the chances are that you're ahead of your wife in those kinds of things, forgetfulness and so forth. So your wife needs to be patient with you. I mean, she remembers when you could run a track.

Now you're lucky to be able to stand up and not do a face plant, right? So she needs to be patient with you. And her words, oh, they are so powerful. She needs to be reminded to encourage you. Nancy has a thing with Revive Our Hearts called the 30-Day Husband Challenge. And it's in writing. It's a little booklet.

And she has distributed millions of those. Men need to hear from their wives encouraging words. You know, it's so interesting. I believe what people I love tell me about myself. I mean, that's the gospel, right?

Let's start with the God of the universe dying for me. What does that mean? That means that I, I know this sounds crazy, but I'm worthy because He says I'm worthy. So your wife at this stage of your life has to learn to encourage you maybe more than she ever has. Touch her. Touch her. I mean, if you're walking along the sidewalk, hold her hand. When you're sitting at a restaurant or at the kitchen table, touch her. Now, you know, things don't work like they used to.

We don't need to go into any detail. But touching, loving, tender words, this is probably more important in your 60s and 70s than it was when you were in your 20s. That's what I would say.

Encourage your husband with good words and with touching. Robert, I want to talk about one other thing that you talk about in the book. And that is, how important is it for men to really saturate themselves in God's Word during this time? Oh, you know the answer to the question.

You live the answer to that question. I talked a moment ago about having a little bit more time now at this stage of your life. And what a great way to spend some of that time in God's Word. I use, and I've done different ways of doing this, but I go through the Bible every year. And there are wonderful tools out there to help you do that.

And Nancy's daddy did this, my daddy did this, my late wife did this, my wife Nancy does this. You start the day in the Word. You start the day listening to what God has to say by way of His Word. And then you pray on your knees. You crawl in front of your chair, you kneel down, and you pray. And that stalks your pond. Does that make sense?

That is it. And you know the problem is if you don't start your day like that in no time, other distractions are going to keep you from getting back there. So I'm an early morning guy, so I rarely don't get up when it's dark.

It's always dark when I get up. So I have this wonderful quiet time where nothing is on, nothing's making noise, and I get to open God's Word. And I say, Lord, what is it that you want to say to me? Maybe I've read this verse a thousand times before. But by way of your Holy Spirit, would you say something brand new to me as I read this Word? And that is, I would say that's an essential, that's standard equipment for a guy our age.

Well, for anybody, but especially for a guy our age. The Holy Spirit can really encourage you as you walk with him during these very important laps in your life. Yeah. I like the way you tie together reading the Word and listening to God and then talking to God, because it's a conversation, and there's those two. And I like the fact that at the end of each chapter you include what you call a gun lap prayer, you know, a prayer that fits the season of our lives. I think, Gary, sometimes guys need that, right? It's taking them by the hand saying, here, just read this prayer, that'll be a great head start for that prayer. Yeah, absolutely, because I think sometimes you're putting prayer in words that we wouldn't necessarily use ourselves, but we read them and it, yes, yes, Lord, that's what I'm saying. Well, this has been delightful.

We could talk another hour. I do hope that the men who are listening and women who are listening will get this book, because I think, gals, you know, most books are bought by women. I think if you would give this to your husband and ask him to read the introduction of the first chapter, he'll read the rest of the book. So thanks for sharing with us, and thanks for the time and energy you spent investing and writing this book, Robert. So as long as God gives you life, you keep writing, all right? Yeah, and the same back to you, man.

Well, thank you, thank you. What a motivating and challenging conversation. Robert Wagramuth has been with us, and if you want to finish well, this resource will encourage you or someone you know.

Gun Lap, Staying in the Race with Purpose is our featured resource. Just go to FiveLoveLanguages.com to find out more. FiveLoveLanguages.com And next week, finding the hero in your husband. Dr. Julie Slattery will join us to help strengthen your marriage. Should be a great discussion just before Valentine's Day. Our thanks to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Todd, with assistance from Tom Mathis. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.