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October 23, 2021 1:30 am
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They have cowritten our featured resource today@ 5lovelanguages.com. It's a book titled, so how do I parent this child discovering the wisdom and wonder who your child was meant to be can find out more. Five love languages.com Gary, I think this is the first time we've ever had a brother and sister join us on the program I think you're right, Chris. I don't remember that we I'm assuming the same father, mother, this could be an interesting interesting discussion.
I'm excited about let's meet our guest. Let me start with Bill Hendrick's first he's been with us before he's cofounder and president of global center for giftedness which seeks to mobilize a worldwide movement of giftedness guides people who know how to help others discover their giftedness and then apply those insights to the major areas of their lives. He serves also as the executive director for Christian leadership at the Hendrick center leadership development initiative at Dallas theological seminary, and right next to him is Deb Hendrix, God be a senior associate and change management coach at the gift in the center there in Dallas. She focuses on graduating students and women who are navigating challenging life transitions. She serves as a consultant to schools and nonprofit organizations and speaks and writes often on these topics, so together they have written. So how do I parent this child discovering the wisdom and the wonder of who your child was meant to be.
You find out more. Five love languages.com welcome to Building Relationships with you today. Throughout privilege, first of all, tell us about your relationship as brother and sister. And if you ever thought you would write a book together a great question. I am the older sister I get to say, we actually had a very auspicious kind of beginning Bell was born on the eve of my third birthday.
That meant that from ever after that point it was our birthday is first and that my so I had to get over that insult which I managed to eventually and I would say that I rediscovered my brother bright as he was finishing at high school.
I actually was home first semester from Wheaton lived in how not by choice but Bill was there and we spent a lot of late evenings discussing things and I was like cries like us to find this person was my brother.
I we had been playmates and had a great relationship that it was like he was somebody else. He was an adult and so we can continue that on I was out east in Philadelphia when he went to week two, Harvard, and so we went each other often during that time, and then later he moved back to Dallas and I became very close friends with his wife Nancy and their kids and we brace kids together. So then about 20 years ago Bill was needing someone to help him at the giftedness center and he had me go city assessment to see if that would be good fit for me and wise and we began our work together and this book. I don't know that we ever said like 20 years ago, we wanted to write a book. I'm not sure that whatever the goal that it was more of an organic thing that came out the work that we did with people we needed to write a about were both riders will be a very different style but it was obvious that we both needed to contribute to it.
Based on our own, different experiences of helping people discover this problem and Bev's registry girls are very strict rules. We thought we join forces and we get a better so that's what we do as a result excited about it. Imagine writing a book with my sibling and it's hard to do.
I have written books with other authors and I know that's not always easy either. So we come into their own successfully putting this book that was all providential Gary because we did it during a pandemic year versus labor very isolated and it was actually an exercise of faith from beginning to end, so this is all God's doing well, it turned out well. I'm excited about the prevailing idea.
Many parenting books is that the proper input by the parent is going to yield proper output style and use that works well with machines but not with people talk about that while the prevailing view in our culture is the child's product bring this baby home from the hospital were was born and spent the next 18 years, parenting, and educating and socializing the child to become a child going to become and how the child turns out term at age 18, 20, 22 becomes a referendum on how well the parents.
The problem you child is not a product child was a person and there's some truth to the idea. Proper input determines proper output, but we have to determine what is proper and we submit if we go to the personhood of the child himself that's really the truck card helps us understand what kind of input.
This particular individual. This particular person.
This little baby person needs in order to draw. I would also add that I think that to think about delivery as being better than our treasure that you have been given helps you reframe this into something is made that should get you did not make it or not, the artist made this our treasure that you're really receiving the gift of that gives you a whole different idea. I think about what you're doing, but also what the child's doing this is obviously a different slant on parenting because you guys come up with this idea and then develop it in this book the process that we use to discover persons getting lost is not a tester warrior questionnaire is rather a process. It's a narrative based approach person tells us a set of stories from their life about activities they've done joy doing and done well and they tell the stories going all the way back to childhood. So over the last 20 to 25 years between the two of us. We have conducted some around 4500 of those interviewed, we estimate and we heard thousands and thousands of stories about giftedness from when they were children and it finally occurred to us you know this means that parents are seeing in real time giftedness of their children being lived out, they just don't know that they're saying but with a little bit of coaching we could help make parents aware that they could actually observe their children write things and keep track of that and over time and have a whole lot of really solid evidence from lived experience of the child points very very clear pattern of MS will giftedness really is a pattern of behavior in a person's so that's really where the idea came I would also add to that that one of the things that we discover again hearing the stories from people is almost magical quality about early stories, as we call them things that happen to the person before the age of 10. They didn't always remember a lot of detail that they remembered a lot of joy and satisfaction, the joy being that person, even at the age of four or five.
It's really profound. It stood out to sometimes with a metaphor for the way they did all of life. So this seemed a way to help parents maybe think about paying attention to that.
They see it.
Do they observed that they spend time at that pay attention to. So we wanted to give them some tools to help them capture it because joy so great in the child be so great that parents to be able to see that as well.
So what are you saying is that you took these 4500 interviews approximately with adults who were looking back on their childhood and you begin to see patterns of how things they really enjoyed as a child fleshed out in their adult life in their careers and now you're trying to say to parents. Hey, what if you check this out early on and begin to cooperate with the child's giftedness I got the other exactly exactly. That's exactly I had the benefit too much of the process of our own children raising our own children may not have three daughters and I was right there in the birthing room for all three of and I promise you.) Mobile playing table. All three of them, manifested themselves to the world in three completely different ways and it hasn't let up so and so I knew enough about giftedness even at that time.
The oldest is now in her mid-30s. So that's that's really the beginning of my career I was watching I was looking certain things really around for the child's energy was going and I noticed all three were very very different people and I should've went with those differences that uniqueness and for each child made a huge difference in the way that I am the mother parent of them had an added dimension that I had identical twins, and it was very obvious to me from day one.
Although is not obvious to anyone else that these babies were different and watching them grow and watching the fingerprints if you will of God on them as being different has to stand profound lesson that I been privileged to see. I now have six grandchildren and that is at. I don't even have a word for that, being present to the wonder of each one of them. Now that this is my work. I feel I have this real wonderful opportunity to really see this in a very nascent kind of way just growing and developing and using math and to help their parents when they see things in their kids just being kind of that witness to that as well.
Time this is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" . Find out more about our featured resource and I guess by logging onto five love languages.com were talking with Beth Godby and Bill Hendrix about their book. So how do I parent this child discovering the wisdom and the wonder of who your child was meant to be.
Find out more by going to five love languages.com.
If you just said something in the last segment. As we were ending that you look at the children as their growing up or memories that people have one of the questions that you ask of this is it like what your first memory or what you remember about the your childhood home or how do you dig into that of that background like that. That's a great question. The prompt that we give people is telling us about a time in your life when you remember doing something you really enjoyed that she did it well and I also really encourage them to go back as early as they can remember. It doesn't seem like a very significant story took time to be talking about building a treehouse with their brothers in the backyard that when you collect that with the other stories it has profound significance that you're able to stay because the pattern shows up, but there is such a joy for the individual in telling that story. That's one of the reasons we would really like to capture it. It's like a pure expression of the individual many times before anyone has come in to tell them don't do that or that is my or any kind of way that they might intrude on that story so it's a very pure picture of giftedness is okay. Can we do this. Can we turn the spotlight on Gary Chapman and ask him. Gary, if you were to answer the question. You have the earliest memories you have of doing something that you felt really good about doing it come to mind washing dishes. Early studies I can remember, I wash dishes. One night my sister was this is the next. Not that I really felt I was good at it. Acts of service that prepared you for your marriage to absolutely because her love languages, acts of service always like my mother for what seduces her mother told me how to work in the garden, and I really enjoyed that to both of those was working I was doing things I was accomplishing things and so that's good, Felix fits into the work ethic and no strong work ethic.
Good news about going further with that our bill and babble about analyzing the amazing thing is that you actually do remember that topic that you remember that for you is something significant. I one time subject is actually a pastor at a church and he couldn't remember anything. I trust the process. You remember, believe it or not, chuckled and he said we would be interested in this lesson just okay. He said I remember when I was 2 1/2, we've already but what he remembered was playing hide and seek with his brother and sister until way after dark and their mothers yelling at him to come in. That's all I remember this fantastic exactly what were looking for really the only other thing I remember about that. He always like to be the person that they had to find never really wanted to be the person at the go pod sounds totally insignificant in context, it probably was. You get a whole bunch of other stores from them and then you do the analysis and you discover that this is an individual who has a giftedness for getting people to respond to them and influencing their behavior and you go back to that very very primitive story at age 2 1/2 and what was he doing he wanted to be the one that they had to go find he wanted to get a response from these people. Now some people might say well that's a real stretch bill. All I know is he's got no 1215 stories from throughout his life, but all linked up in that way and you do have a sense that something was happening very very early on. Along those lines, and I like to refer to this is good truth about the person, because it's true keeps showing up again and again. Over time we spend a lot of time off and went the things that are maybe not so greatly remember the stories but this allows people to go back and reclaim a part of them that was satisfying. That was memorable. Even people who had maybe damage. Or, to them, we find that they returned to the stories there very like home for them. When mentor bars used to call it, who they be and it is that's their feeling and see they be so with the converse of the love languages. If you don't like.
One thing that may point you in a direction is it the same with this if if you had an experience where you felt that you didn't do well as a child and then you kinda retreated from that does that give you insight. Bill, we tend to stick with the stories where the person gain satisfaction from doing the telltale sign that giftedness is activated is that the person takes joy or satisfaction from the doing of the activity whatever they gain energy and yes you do this work long enough you start to discover people's unpleasant experiences that it is kind of the negative reverse but there were probably 60 circumstances of the situation that were lacking that they really need in order for the thing to work or that there got blocked in some way. Oftentimes, people will tell me a story where they come to get all the way to the punch line.
You know that they've done everything that worked perfectly for them but for some reason they fell short of getting that final thing that would've been so satisfying and you can see their whole energy washed out at the point they make their a person who mostly stay with that God loves to get a response and he wrote a paper something in college and a lot of work and energy into it and found determined he was no impressive professor and then just the very day the grays were supposed to come out half of the professor and none of the papers got graded and so he never got to see the fruit of all that work. He's feeling that this appointment when we do see post about now to the parent who has the child and most parents would say my toes gifted and what they mean by that. But what do you mean by the term giftedness and why is it important for the parent. While I think they are right about that.
Every child is gifted every person as the way that we tended talk about gifted in our society usually means academic giftedness on some kind of special talent in some way, and those are no doubt part of the child is not what we are talking about is a course that motivation that drives the person. It's what they wake up in the morning wanting to do and every person has their own unique giftedness. I think that the challenge for parents sometimes is it that does not seem to you what child seems to be showing them doesn't conform to their expectations to maybe what they'd hoped for that that sometimes when the problems occur, but the child is going to irrepressible EB today are they cannot be other than that this is something that is a core truth about them and when ever they want to do anything they care about. This is going to be how they did. Giftedness is a socially when someone is born to do born to do something, whether it's one person wants to solve a problem, but never got a problem.
I didn't want to solve somebody else's unmentionables to gain a response and influence people. Somebody else wants to understand something, a very deep level of something else. Life is all about challenges life is one challenge after another. They love nothing more than Trammell challenge and we could go on and on and on about all kinds of giftedness that there are the world and in fact, everybody really is unique in that they they have their own unique giftedness that is unique to them as Bev mentioned, giftedness is a combination of motivation and desire and drive, but it's also ability somebody can be motivated to do something, but they've also got to be able to many people who are motivated to sing in the shower but you're glad they don't know staying in the ensemble ability to do that.
Conversely, you have people have ability, but they don't have motivation to work with the God who was easily capable of being a linebacker for any football team and I asked him to play football in college, he said, although it broke my dad's heart. I played high school and he was certain that I was going to college all amendment of the NFL. I did go out for football and one that I love watching the game but I so you have the ability of those all this giftedness come from is inherited well, you know are people of faith.
We happen to believe that the giftedness ultimately comes from the creator, it's invalid and born. All we know about giftedness really is that it's a phenomenon phenomenon like gravity is a phenomenon you know you not to know anything about gravity to take advantage of is just the way the world works wonders. This phenomena about human beings that they each of us lives into this unique pattern of behavior. Giftedness is been around for as long as urban human beings, but nobody's really paid much attention to it in a formal way until about the end of the 19th century. So maybe the last hundred years under 20 years, people of a little more attention to it. So we actually don't know that much about the phenomena but we do know is that it shows up extremely early in a person's life and it's not inherited clearly because first of all there's there's absolutely no genetic evidence for it doesn't seem to dwell in the genes of the chromosomes of secondly, there is strong evidence as any parent can attest, and many, many grown adults would test that they are completely unlike their parents like they that Apple fell completely in the whole of the universe from the tree you will and even his best said you can have identical twins and then you do really different people even though they have identical chromosome amount so it's probably not inherited.
It's more given is how we put this is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, New York Times best-selling author of "The 5 Love Languages" were talking with the brother and sister team of Bill Hendrickson, Bev Godby, today our featured resources, their books, so how do I parent this child discovering the wisdom and the wonder of who your child was meant to be.
Just go to five love languages.com to find out more. So how could a parent discover the giftedness of their child and at what age can you begin to see this. We really think giftedness begins immediately when you get to see the child at birth some. Some would say maybe even how that child was in utero. They'll say oh my goodness he was so busy and there. I mean all moving all the time and as soon as he got out and got old enough that's really wise as well. So it could even be Primavera Spectra share when you take that little went home, or you adopt that child whenever it is you will see that this person will tell you who they are. If you pay attention, and so even early things that how their country dead weather. They cry a lot. Those sorts of things can be clues. Bill and I like to think about, especially in this these early stages as collecting data.
If you well this is true about them seems to be always traded base start crying at 3 PM and cried till seven but that may not be always what they do.
Hopefully not. So you hold it lightly, but pay attention especially to how they respond to things that you did because this is all about a dyad it's all about a relationship between you and that child so it's it's observable very very early. This is usually energy a motivational energy much like the force for some weird exotic lamb science. It's a motivational energy since the way the child engages and interacts with the world. Now, when the babies is a baby, you get the really primitive form of their personhood. But there is a person who they are, nonetheless, and so that is best said the way they interact with their caregiver. The way that they observe things they look at things you pay attention to the energy focus on what they try to move toward what sounds seem to be of interest to them again with an instrument. If you can't, you're only guessing your your your youth.
You can't draw conclusions about what you do notice is a pattern. If you pay attention over time to see that the child keeps returning to certain things with a certain similar energy and then as they begin to get their motor skills, and as they begin to toddle around and walk. Now you start to get a whole lot more possibility to see where that energy inclines what toys do they keep coming back to have a friend who has a baby was probably two years old. She was just astounded the other day. This child spent.
She said 2 1/2 hours on their own, taking boxes and stacking them up inside each other and then taking them back apart. Now, we don't know what that means any child who focuses that much energy for 2 1/2 hours something is going on there so she can score Y in a journal just made an observation and then add to that all kinds of other observation. She makes over the next two, three, five, 10 years. Overtime shall have a whole lot of data that shall start to see that the data starts to connectors patterns that start to be revealed from one of the things that's really important that we want to stay here Gary is that we really want to pay attention to what's right with the child. So often, parents are paying more attention to what's not happening. What's wrong with them how their somehow problem and to what they are doing. It's when you pay attention to what is right with them that you kinda can see the giftedness and I really encourage parents to try to develop what I call positive language for what they're doing. One of my twins was what I call that the time slow to warm up. I look back at that and I think yeah that's really not a positive way to talk about that would be much better to say she is a person who takes what time she needs to feel comfortable that the statement of what she is doing and it kinda changes the whole way of looking at that I can see that you mention the word Journal.
Are you all suggesting that that might be a method of doing this, of keeping a journal of what you're observing through those early years. Absolutely what the general does is it records and more or less real time and marcher trail because I think what can happen if you don't record some of your observations. This is usually forget about him, because we often keep track a whole lot of information alive. So but again to have a record that you can then go back and this is real lived experience from on behalf of your child and so that's pretty objective data is apparent you just want to record what did I see and what did the child do not interpret is what I think the child hears. I put some kind of a judgment or slant on board interpretation just today just like the example I just gave today. My son spent two half hours putting boxes in and out of each other something that simple. In the moment.
It may not seem significant, but down the road. It may seem very significant. We tell a story of in the book tells a story about a little girl who always like to put things inside things and one day she came over and have had a doll and and the doll. I just had a accursed and she said we need to find something to put in the purse and so they hunt around I found the coin and put in the first again, you don't know what that means but the child took this extreme delight in being able to do that. But that pattern of putting things inside of the things she found the child was doing that in other contexts as well not try to figure out what it means yet, but you know it mean something because the child comes back to it again and again with great joy and delight. So the Journal. The idea there is is keeping track of your observations capturing and were were actually mentioned, we have a mobile web page. Parents can go to were were setting up an online journal that they can keep at giftedness.co-CEO/parenting and we can give that link again giftedness.co CO/parenting and out. Just try to facilitate parents have a place where they can keep track of this data like that idea a lot about homework because we are all over the past parents that children respond differently to to school, homework, and I've known for her to do the homework for the children to make good grades.
I'm assuming he would not advise that I would advise it may be only for the parent to learn something because they will definitely do that if they're doing the kids how markets deathly not good for the child. There's always a danger in what I call underfunctioning for our kids. We all want to have our kids be the star of the team, the one that shows off well that makes the great grades and what we really encourage parents to disrespect the gift that the child is is exhibiting and so maybe school wasn't there strong suit and I think to be more curious than critical is always more helpful. So we would one understand why they are not doing their homework. I think that the tool that we want to use most is empathy trying to understand what that relationship is that this child has with his teacher risk will not make excuses for them, but it's definitely to be a partner and an advocate that one that is listening to the teacher but also listening to their child and seeing what could be worked out. There's a lot of ways that one parent can potentiate what the child is doing relative to homework.
Sometimes I found with my own twins.
Do they have a giftedness that we call participate so they always want to do things together. No surprise there. But then I recognize that if they came out to the breakfast room and did their homework. There where I'm there where their sisters are there. They were much more successful at doing that. So again just paying attention to how that child doesn't. We have a whole section of the book on education and the implications of giftedness for education in our culture, we have chosen the last hundred years or more to educate primarily an academic form of learning certain kinds of giftedness do quite well in those in those environments in an academic setting, and people who excel there tend to learn by reading by writing by memorizing by taking tests of some extent by being compliant and if you learn in those ways you'll do really really well there because they give out these things called grades, and whether the system intends it or not.
Over time the kids that make the better grades are deemed to be the smart kids and the kids who don't make such good grades are deemed to be not so smart when nothing could be further from the truth. If how you learn doesn't match how the instruction is dispensed. You may end up looking and frankly feeling no pretty dumb but we could take the same person and take him into a whole different learning setting were we instruct differently and that person will growing up, and meanwhile somebody who does well in an academic setting will flounder better and I both happen to do well in academic settings so you know between the two of us we got a bunch of Masters degrees in an and so forth. But we recognize the vast majority of people actually don't want that way and it's challenges parents to be careful and setting expectations for the child are they setting those expectations based on how the child is wired or is it more about how the child to make the parents will in an article 7. We hope this program is encouraging you as a parent if you'd like to hear it again or suggested to a friend.
"The 5 Love Languages" .com you can hear the podcast free our guests today are Bev Godby and Bill Hendrix authors up so how do I parent this child discovering the wisdom and the wonder of who your child was meant to be. Find out more at 5lovelanguages.com that we been talking about, primarily when the child is younger, but in the teenage years. Is there a difference there.
What would you add to a parent who has teenage children.
I think it gets a little more complicated in those years because the child is especially working on. They are different from the parents often. That's an important thing that they're working on. Need to figure out. I think a lot really helps. I'm now saying someone that set that early end of this the relationship you build with them and trust verse back to be a choice backed early on will usually serve you well in those teenage years on those of us that had three girls King tell you that it can get dicey sometimes in those teenage years, but kids will forgive you a lot and you will make mistakes.
Of course, like we all do.
If they know their loved it. They know that there received and belong to you and that there are times when they get moody and they'll be you know exhibiting whatever stress or pressures that they feel and again I go back to the curious than I critical the more that you can invite them into conversation, the more you can pay attention to what they are doing and what's right with them and start there. I can be at a door of opportunity for them.
The thing that always point out adolescents and a child's body is changing dramatically, and with that come all kinds of new experiences and and frankly with that new feelings and some of the space is quite scary and suddenly people but didn't look interesting.
Three years before suddenly look very interesting now it's a lot for a child absorbent even short out and so you probably by the nature of just adolescents and teen years as as young people to come to grips with new emotions and even how to handle emotions.
You probably see some moodiness and and and so forth is a giftedness for them will the first thing to point out is that even if the child's body is changing their giftedness does not change the giftedness want one of the realities about the nature of giftedness is that it never fundamentally changes the worse the person of an individual stays stable throughout their life.
Now many things change about a person or body changes the values change your beliefs change relationships change a lot a lot of things change the core personhood, which is where the giftedness resides will never fundamentally change. So here you have an adolescent 14 they now are beginning to discover more at least a subjective level about the power of what they've actually got and they also able to express that giftedness to more sophisticated ways.
Sometimes there giftedness gets frustrated and when that happens they get very demotivated and I can express itself in all kinds of ways and so sometimes apparent reason. Think about the mood that their child is in the because this thing that they they love to do that they gave so much energy from doing is somehow getting blocked or frustrated or ashamed or else not good for and it spits doing a number on him emotionally and then I would add is what we call the burden of the gift every kind of giftedness extracts a certain emotional toll on a person simply because that's how they're wired so you think about that person who wants to gain response from other people influence their behavior when they don't get that response the natural reaction is to feel very defeated, begin to wonder maybe there's something wrong with me. The person who loves to meet a need they don't feel needed they feel worthless. They feel like they don't belong in the one in again with what's wrong with me that I'm not needed so a lot of the emotions that we see will ultimately find the roots in the giftedness of the child earlier you talked about the difference in terms of academic settings, and some people respond to one sum to another. Let's talk a moment about when they finish high school. Guessing that you would not recommend everybody has to go to college, speak to that until it's what you said what to say that we would absolutely agree with that. I think that many people that we see are really more set up for what we would call a printed style learning.
They learn by doing by getting their body and something watching someone else may be an expert do it and then do that a lot college is not set up that way. I will say that if the child is really set on going to college. There are so many different ways of doing that now that are really helpful.
Oftentimes my child might start with community college because that's a little more manageable for them. We encourage that one stare about 16 or 17.
You can find out and having them tell you the story is one of the things that we didn't mention is that that's people we work with really it. It's about age 17, 16, 17, where they can actually tell you the answer to. So talk to me about a story that you remember this prompt that I that we mentioned earlier, if you ask a 13-year-old bad or even an eight-year-old Mindel's when you get to the part about what was so satisfying you're going to get an answer like I don't know I just was mean they can't really they had. They don't have the objectivity yet being able to stand back and see this, but about 16 or 17, they can so you now can really find out what educational setting makes the most sense for this child. What what is the realm of possibility for them relative to college and again to check yourself as a parent if that's something that you've just counted on. You may have to rethink that. But this is about what's best for this person had and not necessary for you, but there are cultural pressures. A lot of people assume I have to go to college as a whole mindset for deep and very systemic in our culture that that the college experience is the path into the middle class now 2008 ML a lot of the wreckage of the pandemic as well as a lot of the: looming crisis in funding of education in its fruit always package coming together to to really? And we don't know how that's going to turn out but for many parents, like boomers and and I'm sure there's a lot of Gen Xers out there that heaven is now to be college-age and still of assumption old Corsica to go to college and we met was tapped the brakes on that I along those lines them.
Increasingly, a big believer. For many students, that they take that Year year to make it work a real job and see what's out there in the real world grow up a little.
The students who seem to do best in college are always the ones who have direction they have of beginnings of what we call a vision for their life where they they can see how there giftedness would fit into making a contribution to the world in some kind of an occupation those of the students who seem to get the most out of college and for whom that investment makes the most sense. This is been a fascinating discussion and we only scratch the surface this topic.
I really am glad that you guys up with this book out know that a lot of our listeners are going to get it because it's is filled with practical ideas along the lines were talking about. So thanks for being with us today in investing this time with her listeners. Thank you. I feel like what we've done here is you. You pave the way with "The 5 Love Languages" and all were doing a sort of taking it many to another level in San everything Gary said is absolutely true.
It's even more true than you realize. Just helping parents pay attention. Thanks again Gary just being able to help parents be encouraged and restore some of the joy oxygen. The parenting that's really what we must love today. I thank you for giving us this time. That's what I felt this whole hour is looking at our kids things are starting to make sense to me, even for my own life so five love languages.com you see the book. So how to like him and his child discovering the wisdom of the wonder of five love language is next week will open the phones and take your questions as we present our October edition leave a message on my list. Now by calling 1864 Gary thanks Todd and don't forget our website.
Five love languages.com building relationship with Dr. Gary Chapman radio ministry and violent. Thanks for listening