The Jesus Dare

Have you been spiritually searching for answers? What if Jesus really is who He says He is?

What if it's all true? Take the Jesus Dare today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Taking the Jesus Dare is not a temporary fix.

It's not about patching a problem in your life. The Jesus Dare is about total transformation, which might be scary to some people, but ultimately that's what we all need to do. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, author, speaker, and producer Jay Paylightner encourages you to take a dare and move toward the person of Jesus. Andrea and I have known Jay for his prolific radio work through the years. He's now a bestselling author in his own right. We'll talk with him about a project that is in his wheelhouse right down the middle of the spiritual plate, as it were.

Gary, I have to ask you this. When you do marriage conferences, they're not evangelistic in nature. You're taking couples where they are and encouraging them to move toward each other, but every weekend you tell me that there are husbands and wives who sometimes make decisions to become followers of Jesus.

Well, that's true, Chris. I really sense that when I share practical ideas on how to build a marriage, I'm giving information, but I can't give motivation. You know, to me that comes from God working in our hearts, because by nature we're self-centered. You know, we're selfish, and love comes when our hearts have been touched and changed by Christ. So I share the gospel very clearly, give people a chance to respond, and let them give me their name and address, and I give them some follow-up material, because I really believe that the relationship with God impacts every other aspect of life, and certainly in marriage.

It gives us the desire to love and serve each other, rather than demand of each other. You know, this is an important topic, and I'm looking forward to talking to Jay about this book, The Jesus Dare, today. Well, let me introduce him. Jay Paylightner is one of the top freelance producers for Christian Radio in America. He's produced Josh McDowell Radio, Today's Father, Jesus Freaks Radio for Voice of the Martyrs, Project Angel Tree with Chuck Colson, and so many more. He speaks at marriage conferences, men's retreats, and national ministry events. He's written now more than 25 books, including the best-selling 52 Things Kids Need from a Dad, What If God Wrote Your Bucket List, and our resource for today, The Jesus Dare.

You can find out more at FiveLoveLanguages.com. Jay and his wife Rita live near Chicago. They've raised five children, 10 foster babies, and they're now grandparents. Well, Jay, welcome to Building Relationships. Well, thank you, Dr. Chapman. Chris, what a privilege to hang out with you guys today. Chris mentioned your wife, your children, some of the work you've done. Give us the big picture.

Who is Jay Paylightner? Oh, my. Well, I'm a lot like your listeners today. I'm just going through life, doing the best I can. God has gifted me with some abilities and gifts, has introduced me to some concepts, and I'm just trying to plow through and make the best of life and get to heaven and take as many people with me as possible. I'm not a theologian, a deep theologian. I'm not a pastor.

I'm not a psychologist. I'm just a beggar who found bread. Some things that work for me in my marriage and as a dad and as I try to make the best of life and reach my neighbors and friends. I'm just a beggar who found bread telling other beggars where they can find bread also. Well, let's hope that there'll be some even in this program that will eat the bread, as it were. Well, that's exactly right. You know what? If we're not doing that, then kind of our time is wasted here on earth, isn't it? Ultimately, that's true.

Yeah. So what is this, the Jesus Dare? Well, really there's kind of two answers to that, two ways to answer that question, maybe even three. The Jesus Dare is a book and a podcast and a song and a music video. The Jesus Dare is a sermon series, an evangelism tool, and maybe even a movement. But really, I think the Jesus Dare is the heart of the Bible. It's that big question of how do you respond to Jesus? And that's what the whole Bible points to. Both the Old Testament and the New Testament point to that question.

What if he is who he says he is? And if he is, we need to take the Jesus Dare. Yeah. So for those of us who are Christians, what I hear you saying, among other things, is that this book is an evangelism tool. It's a tool we can use to help others consider Christ.

Yeah. And one of the fun things is the first chapter of the book kind of warns readers that if they get through every chapter and read the last chapter, it's a short little book, they read every chapter, all the chapters in between kind of remove the roadblocks that get in the way of making that decision for Christ. And they spell out the benefits of knowing Christ. And it warns the readers that, hey, in the last chapter, we're going to ask you to take the Jesus Dare.

But yeah, the book is an evangelism tool. And I was kind of inspired by my time with Josh McDowell. I produced his radio program for 14 years.

And I will never forget, this image has burned in my head of going to Russia a few times with Josh. But being on the streets of Moscow, and handing out copies of More Than a Carpenter, you know, More Than a Carpenter, many of your listeners have seen that book, maybe been impacted by it. It's been printed in 100 languages and sold 30 million copies. But handing out copies of More Than a Carpenter, and I can picture an old dirty bus on the streets of Moscow, and two windows in a row were two little babushka grandmas reading this book that I had just given to them. It was like, oh, the hunger, the power of the written word, and the hunger for truth. And that's kind of what I dare I envision that impact for my little book, which is about the same size for my little book, The Jesus Dare. Well, let's hope that this book will sell 30 million copies, Jay. Well, Dr. Chapman, you get that concept.

I don't. That's beyond anything I could possibly imagine. But you know what? God can do that. If God chooses to do that, I'll take that. But at the same time, every one of these books that goes out could be a little evangelism tool that reaches one to 10 people. Who knows?

God knows. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I noticed that Josh McDowell wrote the introduction to your book. Yeah, and I'm very appreciative. A very interesting thought, though, process.

Josh wrote that book over 40 years ago now, More Than a Carpenter, and I think that was back in the day. Maybe when you could debate somebody or be logical about leading someone into the kingdom to receive Christ, that apologetics. But I think today, in the 21st century here, I think you have to first start with relationship. You can love someone into the kingdom before you could debate them into the kingdom.

What do you think about that? Well, I like that idea because I believe in the power of love, okay? When you show real interest in other people and their well-being, the world is hungry for relationships on the human plane. And of course, we know that the greatest relationship, the most important relationship, is one with God. And so we're all in the same place.

We're all in the same place. We're all trying to lead people down that road so they can have a relationship with God. Now, this book is definitely for outreach, but also there are things in here for people who are already Christians, right? Well, that was kind of one of the surprises as I was writing the book. I had it designed in my mind as an outreach tool in these 25 short chapters that kind of explain to folks why receiving Christ is a good idea, why it works in this world, kind of logic.

Some apologetics and some relational concepts. What I didn't realize was how important it would be to people who are already believers, because what it does, it reminds you of the reasons why you accepted Christ. It reminds you of the repercussions of sin.

Some repercussions are sooner, some come later. It reminds you of the benefits of having Christ in your life, both benefits for eternity, of course, and benefits for today. Having Jesus in your life gives you purpose and makes sense of the world. And then another chapter reminds you of the tools, the arsenal we have as Christians, prayer and fellowship and worship in the Bible. And then people who believe in Jesus, when they read this book, they will be reminded of the idea that we are free in Christ. And then that irony that it takes a surrender, a surrender to Christ. And that's where you'd find true freedom. So yeah, it also is, you know, that great verse, 1 Peter 3.15, I think it is, always be ready to have an answer for the hope that's in you.

Always be ready. And that's what this book does. But then my favorite two parts of that verse finishes up, but do it with gentleness and respect. And that's what this book does. I'm hoping it does that.

And I've heard back that it does that. And it equips believers to share the gospel in a very practical and easy and easy to read way. You can give this book to a friend and just simply say, Hey, I saw this book and thought of you. Jay, what do you think is holding people back that is non-believers from taking the Jesus dare? Well, that Dr. Chapman, that is the ultimate question of the book. And that's the ultimate question we all kind of have to answer because our goal as believers is to get to heaven and take others with us, take our family and friends and strangers and people on the other side of the world even. But I think what's holding people back is the lack of clarity, maybe some misconceptions about what it means to know Christ, the book that helps define sin. And people don't want to talk about sin, but I think we need to put that on the table and help people understand how to deal with that.

How sin separates us from God. I don't use a lot of big words in the book. What I'm known for my 25 some books, they're just easy to read. I hear back from wives who say, Jay, my husband doesn't read your books, but he read your book. And that's the kind of attitude and comfort level and an easy to read ability that I've hoped to sneak into the Jesus there.

But I do define some long words. I define justification and how forgiveness and grace. Just very briefly, sanctification and glorification. People need to know those are the steps of faith. And also worth mentioning is that someone who might want to come to Christ to fix something in their life, I say, no, that's not what this is about. Taking the Jesus there is not a temporary fix. It's not about patching a problem in your life. The Jesus there is about total transformation, which might be scary to some people, but ultimately that's what we all need to do.

Yeah, absolutely. What about the people who are overwhelmed or intimidated by the Bible? They just have had little exposure to it. They see this big, heavy, thick book and they don't know what it's all about and have a hard time. You know, where do I start with this whole thing?

Well, I think I can totally understand that. And anybody who's first opened up the Bible is like, well, where do I start? I hear there are contradictions in the Bible.

What are those big words? What about all these battles? What about all those rules in Leviticus? I totally get that. But here's one of the great takeaways, I think, from any evangelistic effort in the book that Jesus there is that you don't need to have everything figured out. We shouldn't expect to understand God's ways and intentions. I mean, he's God and we're not, right? There's that in 1 Corinthians, that great verse idea that now we see things imperfectly, like a puzzling reflection in the mirror, like something in the mirror that we can't understand.

I'm paraphrasing, of course. But when we cross that threshold into eternity, it will all be clear. So right now, we are not supposed to understand God's ways.

You know what? When you open the Bible, there will be some confusing things and things you work for. But ladies and gentlemen, anybody listening today, I promise you, if you take the Jesus there, receive Christ into your life, as you go back, it'll become more and more clear. And every time you go through a passage, it starts to add up and it makes sense to you.

And that is such a heartwarming and wonderful and intellectually stimulating and motivating thing when you start to read the scripture and your eyes are opened. But again, even here on earth, we're not home yet. We're not home yet. So we shouldn't expect to have everything figured out and questions are good.

And you know what? God can handle our questions. He actually loves us when we come to him with questions and things that we can't figure out.

He will open our eyes. You know, one of the things, Jay, I find so encouraging is young believers who have just taken the Jesus there and now they've started reading the life of Jesus and they're working through, you know, Matthew and Mark and Luke and John and the accounts of these people who are with Jesus. And they're saying, oh, I can't believe all this stuff.

I've never heard all this stuff. It's exciting to see that. What other factors are keeping people away from considering Jesus? Well, again, because in the Jesus there, there's lots of short little chapters and it gives me a chance to kind of spend two or three pages on each one of those. And there's one section in the middle of the book where I identify exactly that, the things that are keeping people away, that idea that people think that they don't like themselves. They're like, they're not worthy to hang out with God and to know who God is. And you know what? I agree with that.

None of us are worthy. And that's one of the great truths that we have to come through. Or people just look in the mirror, they think they're ugly. And so they don't like themselves and that's their obsession in there and such. And so I've written some chapters that address those issues. Those one chapter is Come As You Are.

That's the short title, just a couple of pages. That idea that, you know what, we can come as we are. We don't have to put a suit and tie on. You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid.

You don't have to get your hair cut. You can, exactly as you are, Jesus says, come as you are. That was a great Billy Graham position, of course. And we have to acknowledge that we're all broken.

So if you think the other guy next to you is better than you, he's not. We're all sinners. And then, then the idea that another chapter, short chapter, that you got to know that you are lovable, that you have value, that your past is past behind you. God has a plan for you. And again, talking to the folks listening today, the truest thing about you, the truest thing about you is God's love for you.

And I, you know, I just can't emphasize that enough. And then another chapter, you're beautiful too. By the way, you're made in God's image. And ladies and gentlemen, when you take the Jesus there, think about this, the ugly, the ugliest thing about you, your sins have been washed clean. When you take the Jesus there, you are part of God's family, a son and a daughter of God.

And he, and he, and he loves you and you're beautiful there too. So, boy, it's just fun, just fun to think about, about how life is impacted when, when you take the Jesus there. That, that goes back to what you were saying about the transformation, Jay. And I think that's one of the, the factors that keep people away from Jesus or the church, Christianity, the Bible. And it's that they don't think that God could love them and that they have to, in order to come to him, they got to clean up whatever it is.

You've got an addiction to this, or you've done that bad thing in your past. You've got to make up for that, clean yourself up. And I think it was C.S. Lewis who talked about Christianity not being a fix-it like you were talking about, but it is a taking someone from death to life. It's, it's like Lazarus, you know, he's dead.

He can't do anything. And Jesus calls him and he just gets up and they unwrap him. That's what the Christian life, the beginning of it looks like. He takes you from death to life. Talk about that.

Well, you said it better than, better than I could, Chris. The whole point of the Jesus there is that total transformation, washing yourself, washing sins clean. We all come with that brokenness. It happens in an instant, that moment of being justified, washed clean by the blood of Christ. But then we have that sanctification process where we get it right. When that is maybe as a warning, when you receive Christ as your savior, you are totally transformed. You are a new creation, but some of the crud that from your old life is still going to be around. You will still have those traffic tickets. You, you, you still may have some addiction things.

You still have some addiction things you need to work through. So the baggage from the world, you may have to do some reparation with some relationships and you'll learn that through the sanctification process. But boy, that moment of justification, then that instant, when you receive Christ as your savior, the Holy Spirit comes into your life and it's a total transformation. You know, Jay, we may have some listeners who would say, you know, I like your program when you talk about relationships, but I don't like it when you talk about religion.

What would you say to those people? Well, I would say, I understand where they're coming from because a lot of people have been burned by religion. Um, in the name of religion, uh, through the history, there've been all kinds of bad decisions made, uh, slavery, the crusades, the Salem witch trials.

And I have a chapter on that. The idea that, uh, that's examples of religion gone bad, but, uh, but, uh, I, I love to remind people that, uh, slavery was endorsed by folks who call themselves, uh, Christians, but, um, it was broken up ultimately by authentic Christians who wrote about in, in, in stop slavery back in the 1800s, of course, the Salem witch trials in the name of religion, they hanged those, uh, those young women in, in Salem, but it was a true authentic Christians that brought an end to that. And of course the crusades, uh, 500 years of, uh, of nastiness and, and wars fought in the name of religion. But it was when the printing press came out and the Bible could be read and the reformation came out that put an end to that. So religion, stuff done in the name of religion, we don't be scared of religion, uh, be scared of folks who are giving religion a bad name. Hmm.

Yeah. Now you mentioned the word apologetics earlier. And some of our listeners may think that means you're apologizing for Jesus.

What does that word mean? And do you deal with apologetics in this book? Well, the book, the Jesus there doesn't get bogged down in apologetics because that can be a laborious, uh, and we need to go back to that relationship, but, uh, everyone's wired differently and God draws everyone in different ways. So there is a taste of apologetics.

Uh, there is a taste, there is a little bit of the idea of being drawn by God's love. Uh, the book also helps people find purpose, a sense of purpose in life. There's a chapter on rescuing people from the world. Uh, now some people come to Christ, uh, because they just, uh, they just don't want to go to hell.

And that's, that's a, that's a pretty valid reason for that. One of the chapters, God surprises some people and draws people to himself by revealing miracles and angels. And, and that's what he uses to open their eyes. So everybody comes to, uh, to God, uh, from a different perspective. And the apologetics is the logic and scientific proof and historical proof. I think we all need to have a little bit of that where we're nodding our heads, like, Oh, this could really happen. It's not some mystical thing. It's a very practical thing. There's, there's science and logic and history that, in history that, that proves who Jesus is.

Yeah. Gary, it sounds like what Jay is saying is that everybody is a little bit different. This seems like the love languages to me, or it has hints of the love languages. Well, in a sense, you're right, uh, Chris, you know, I wrote the book, God Speaks Your Love Language, and I demonstrate both in the Bible and in church history and in contemporary lives, how people are drawn to Christ, uh, often through their love language. That is sometimes it's words that they read in the Bible, like Martin Luther, you know, the just shall live by faith. And he'd been working so hard to please God in order to get to heaven. And he realized, Oh no, no, no, it's just believing what Jesus did for us on the cross. It was words that spoke to him.

And so I kind of go through "The 5 Love Languages" in that manner. Uh, and I think that's a lot of what you've just said, Jay, that the people are drawn to Christ in different ways. And some, yes, if they're scientifically minded people want to know, how can we know this is really true?

You know, how can we know that these things really happen? And so, uh, that's what apologetics is, is trying to share the reality of the truth of the gospel and what we read in the Bible. So, uh, but God, the interesting thing is God's looking out for us. He's seeking, reaching out for us. It's not that we're reaching out for him. He's reaching out for us. That reminds me of one of the great steps of faith that I had to take was I thought it was my faith in God that I had to work so hard on. But, uh, breakthrough moment was when I realized there was his faithfulness to me, to us, to humanity that is going to draw us to him.

So I'm tracking with Gary. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a question that people have too about what believe means, you know, believe in Jesus and that trips some people up because they've, I believe Jesus lived, you know, I believe he, and they may even believe that he was God's son, that he's part of the Trinity.

They can go that far, but it really doesn't make a difference in their lives. And I think that's one of the things that the Jesus there really clears up that it's not just a mental ascent. Well, yeah, Satan believes in Jesus. Um, so, uh, it's not just belief. Uh, and, and actually that speaks to the, the title of the book. Now the title of the book could have been, uh, receiving Christ.

It could have been being justified by the blood of Christ. It could have been repent and believe. And actually the working title of this book, uh, 10 years ago when I first was kind of toying with my head was what if he is who he says he is, which is exactly the question we all need to answer. What if he is who he says he is, but, um, no publisher. And my agent said, Jay, that doesn't make any sense.

How did, how did he get to there? It was confusing. And then when, when I stumbled across this idea of the Jesus there, uh, the, my agent and the publisher said, Oh yeah, that makes great sense. Now I hope it does to our listeners. Um, and I'm going to go ahead and say, go ahead to the, uh, to a website, the jesusdare.com where, uh, you can find, uh, uh, you know, two, two chapters to download the podcast is there.

There's a music video at, at the jesusdare.com. But, um, I hope then the title makes sense. I don't hope it doesn't scare anybody away. I hope it's kind of a little comforting and challenging at the same time.

The Jesus Dare. What if it's who he says he is? What if it's all true? And all it takes is a little bit of faith to see the mountains bloom. If you only knew you could be made new, free like you were meant to be. Would you dare to believe?

Jay Pay Lightner is with us. He said it was a song and there it was, you hear a little bit of that. You can hear that at the website as well.

If you go to fivelovelanguages.com, we have a link right there. Lay down all your questions. What if he is who he says he is? What if it's all true?

Just a little bit of faith. Jay, talk more about that, that song and the nerve that it touches. Thank you. Um, I got me to give a shout out to Derek Charles Johnson. That was not my voice, ladies and gentlemen.

That was Derek Charles Johnson. And, uh, well, it's worth a quick story of how this song came about. Um, I was challenged to do a podcast of this, of the book, and I realized I needed some music. And so I wrote a first draft of the lyrics. I sent it down to a friend who found Derek and he put the song together. It's one of those things that when you start something and God just keeps leading you and nudging you, it's been pretty well received, actually. Again, I don't think we're going to win any, any devil awards or sell 30 million copies of the book or the, or the song, but, uh, uh, who knows?

So again, if you want to hear the song, uh, at, uh, fivelovelanguages.com is a, is a link or, um, uh, my website, we put up the jesusdare.com is it's there as well. Jay, listening to you tell all of that, uh, makes me think you might've been a radio producer at one time. Well, of all this, of all the stuff I've learned is that God uses everything. You know, I've got, I got fired from jobs. I was on Michigan Avenue doing major market advertising for almost a decade. And that's where I learned to write, uh, to write short things that people wanted to read.

I ended up a little Christian ad agency out in Wheaton, Illinois. And again, if you go, whatever you're going through right now, ladies and gentlemen, God's going to use that down the road to give him glory and to, uh, to draw people to the kingdom. And that's what I've discovered.

And Chris and Gary, you've discovered the same thing in your life. God uses it all and you can look back and see it. Sometimes you can't see it in the middle of it, but you do later on. I've written 25 books, but the Jesus Dare might be the whole reason why I've been in this, in this Christian media business for, for decades now was because, uh, people can use this and bring their friends and family and strangers to a saving relationship with Jesus. God uses everything that happens. I certainly agree with that.

The things that are pleasant, the things that are not so pleasant. Eventually you see how God uses them. Jay, in this book, you do have a chapter covering intellectual arguments that were important in your own faith journey.

Say a word about that. Well, yeah, absolutely. I, uh, I found Christ, I received Christ as my savior without having all my ducks in a row. I didn't know exactly all the terms, but I, but I, I had enough that I could make that decision for Christ.

And then shortly thereafter, uh, some intellectual arguments came into fruition in my mind. And one of them of course is, uh, is messianic prophecies. When you start looking through the Old Testament and realizing of all the hundreds of times that Jesus was predicted, uh, prophecies that point to Jesus in the, in the Old Testament.

Micah chapter five, verse two predicts that Messiah, the Messiah will be born in this little town of Bethlehem. And then another intellectual proof was the recent archeological discoveries. Uh, it seems like, uh, every year, secular scientists who, uh, they stumble across new evidence that support the biblical record. They find some, some old city like, uh, Petra or Ebla in the, in the desert sands and like, oh, we thought that was a, that whole city was a myth.

And there it is right there. And then, uh, the one that Josh used to talk about and everybody in the effort for also the, uh, the martyrdom of the apostles, those 12 men, 11 of them died torturous, brutal deaths as martyrs because they insisted that Jesus rose from the dead. And which means they must have seen him after the crucifixion, must have seen him walking around. Otherwise, uh, if they didn't, then, you know, the Christian faith would have died even before it really got launched.

Uh, and there are other, other things covered in the book. Uh, I, again, I'm promising folks out there who once you take the Jesus there, your eyes will be open towards, uh, the practical reasons to know Christ, the intellectual reasons to know Christ, the emotional and relational reasons to, uh, to follow Christ. You also talk about in the book, not only the benefits of giving us eternal life with God, but you talk about the benefits of accepting Christ that we experience here in this world. Well, uh, right. Uh, if you're going to accept Christ just to, uh, to get you into heaven, I applaud that.

Go for that. But really the Holy Spirit is going to guide you through this life on this world, on this side of eternity. He's going to keep you, the Holy Spirit will keep you from a lot of the crud of this world. Of course, all sin has repercussions, but here's the point. Uh, the Holy Spirit, again, when you receive Christ and the Holy Spirit enters your life, he's going to reveal those things and warn you about those things and, and maybe help you sin a little less frequently and a little less severely so that your life, your life is literally easier.

Now that's not, you don't want to say that too much because, because we are promised that there will be repercussions here on earth. Knowing Christ, uh, you're going to go through some tough times because of that. But ladies and gentlemen, it's all going to make sense. There'll be a purpose to it. Plus, uh, when you take the Jesus dare, you trade your plan for God's plan. And the best example of that is really that our personal beliefs and our, and our attitudes about the culture, the hate and the greed and the racism and the, and the wickedness that we have in our heart. All those things, that's your plan.

That's the way you've been living your life. But God's plan is that we exchange those things for love and generosity, uh, fellowship and righteousness, uh, our financial security, which we put our, we depend on, on our, our income. Uh, suddenly we will be, we will be, uh, uh, resting in God's promise that he's going to supply our daily bread, our job, which is our sense of personal fulfillment. And suddenly your job is going to be a chance to, uh, have your gifts and abilities used for a purpose beyond yourself.

The entire focus of your work and your career changes. So taking the Jesus dare exchanges your plan, which might be a good plan for God's plan, which is so much better. You know, I think most young people do have a plan somewhere along the line, you know, in their mind, they're going to do this. They're going to do that when they grow up and those sorts of things, nothing wrong with having those kinds of plans. In fact, we should be having plans, but we have to recognize once we come to God that his plans may be not only different from our plans, but if they are different, they'll be better than our plans. There you go.

There you go. And I think there's also this idea of not being alone anymore, having to figure everything else out on your, on your own, that there's someone walking through life with you and giving you direction and giving you a hope that is not just a hope in hope, but a hope in a real person who loves you, cares for you. And once you know, I guess what I'm saying is it changes your perspective, your outlook on life, no longer do the things that would, you know, bring you to your knees. And you say you have this hollow thing that I can't get out of. I can't pull myself up by my bootstraps.

Well, yeah, you can't. But God promises you that he's going to be with you through the struggle and give a purpose in the middle of that. I think that's one of the real positives about a life of faith in Jesus.

Well, Chris, I think, I think you're exactly right. You know, I think many times once we discover a relationship with God, our perspective on what is important in life changes. For example, if our goal has been to make lots of money, we begin to ask ourselves, you know, what, what, what is this really accomplishing for me to have lots of money? Jesus actually said this, life's meaning is not found in the abundance of the things that man possesses. And we discover that when we become followers of Christ. Doesn't mean we're against money.

No. But if we do have money, we want not only to care for the needs of our families, but we want to give to causes that are reaching out to touch people who need not only physical help, but they need to come to know Christ as we know Christ. And often it begins by our giving to those causes that reach out and touch people where they have a felt need, which may be for food or clothing or shelter.

And we seek to meet those needs. And in that context, they see humans just like them loving each other. And consequently, they want to know, what motivated you to do this? You don't even know me. No, but I love you. And I love you because God loves you. And I've come to experience God's love. And I'd like for you to experience God's love.

So, and I think this is what you were talking about, Jay. It's, it's a, it's Building Relationships with people where we become an instrument to communicate the love of God to people. And that's where I, again, do a shameless plug for the book, because you can hand this book to someone and say, Hey, I saw this, read this book, thought of you.

I love you, man. And I think, give it a read and you can read it in less than an hour, hour or two, and we'll talk about it. And again, because you know, and you want them to know the glory and the power and the love and the purpose that comes from receiving Christ, taking the Jesus down. If you only knew you could be made new, free like you were meant to be, would you dare to believe? Jay, I want you to take us through this Jesus dare, but before that, there is something in the book that you call the big yes.

Explain that. Of course, the biggest question that we all have to answer is, is this, do you believe in God? If a all powerful, all knowing, all present creator exists, then really any other question is, is meaningless. Now, atheists love to stir up trouble by asking all kinds of silly questions to try to trip up Christians like, can God create a rock so big that not even he can lift it? Or where did Cain's wife come from? Or why didn't the lions eat the zebras on Noah's Ark?

Or why didn't Jesus come today so that mass communication could have spread his message faster and further? And now, of course, those are ridiculous questions as humans trying to find a flaw. But those kind of questions are trivial compared to that one big question, does God exist?

And you know what? If God exists, we can be sure of two things that he can do anything he wants. And we should not expect to understand his motives because, well, he's God always has been, always will be, and he will always be in control. So if you say yes to God, then you can trust that everything else falls into place.

And there are no questions that can't be answered. We can trust in God and his love and his ability. All the stuff that we think is impossible is possible because he's God. He can do anything he wants. We can debate whether the world was made in six days or six billion years.

We can debate the virgin birth and Jesus' miracles and resurrection and how the resurrection can be explained. But really, we need to trust that God's plan is unfolding perfectly and he doesn't need our help. He just wants us, our loyalty, and he wants us to trust him. If God is who he is, God can do anything he wants.

You know, Jay, I think all of us would certainly agree with what you just said. Let's, as we come toward the end of our program, let's go to the end of the book where you actually spell out the Jesus dare. Disclarify that for us. What is the step? How do you do that?

How do you respond? How do you take the Jesus dare? Well, hopefully by the end of the book, the last chapter, people have been nodding their head as they're going through. Oh, that makes sense now. Oh, I understand that.

Oh, I didn't know, didn't think, hadn't thought about that before. And then literally I put a prayer down here and it's a version of the prayer that many people who are listening right now have prayed. And with your permission, Dr. Chapman and Mr. Fabry, I'm going to go ahead and invite listeners to follow me in that prayer. Absolutely.

Go ahead. Share the prayer. Dear God, it's pretty clear that nobody's perfect. We're all sinners.

And because of that, no mere human is worthy of hanging out with you. Death is inevitable. And when I die, somebody has to pay for my sins. Now, if that's on me, I don't want to imagine how I would be spending eternity. But thankfully, Lord, you love me enough to provide a way out. You sent your only son to live perfectly on earth and pay the penalty for my sin on the cross.

It cost him everything. But amazingly, that that ticket to heaven, it cost me nothing. I just have to accept that gift. So with that understanding, I trust you as Savior and Lord. Come into my life and guide me so that my life can give you glory. Amen.

Amen. However you word it, and that was a good way to word it, it is bringing your heart, laying it in the foot of the cross, thanking God for what he did for you on the cross, what Christ did for you on the cross, and accepting his forgiveness, opening your heart, letting him come in and sit on the throne of your life. However you put it, you're turning your life over to God, and you want to live for him the rest of your life. Let's say, Jay, that one of our listeners or more of our listeners actually prayed that prayer with you. What would you say to them? What's the next step?

Well, the last two short chapters in the book follow that prayer, and I make two recommendations. Really, tell somebody. Tell somebody that decision you made. It could be someone who's a believer or not, but you need to verbalize it so that you can mark that moment in time. And then I suggest you start a journal.

Now, it doesn't have to be anything fancy, you don't have to write page after page, but just kind of make notes on how God is working your life and the changes you see in your life. You will look back just a few months from now, and you'll see, oh my goodness, God did what he did enter my life and changed my life, and I have new attitudes and new respect and new love and a new sense of purpose in life. That's what it means to take the Jesus down.

Yeah. Did that happen to you, Jay? When you, and you said you didn't do it perfectly, you didn't know everything, but did you see change in your life pretty soon after that?

Well, I totally did. I've been to church my whole life. But how ignorant I was about some things and how I had to find some mentors and surround myself with people who knew this Jesus, who I had just truly met, but I wanted to know more about him. And I realized that by hanging out with other authentic believers, and there was a hunger for that I had. The hunger for scripture came a little later and then some understandings and the appreciation for sitting in. The idea of sitting in church for 45 minutes listening to a sermon was unheard of, but as soon as I found Christ and took the Jesus dare on my own, I didn't call it the Jesus dare back then, but as soon as I took the Jesus dare, I was so hungry for great teaching.

And man, it made a difference 30 years later. You know, one of the things I like about what you have at the very end of the book are some scripture verses, verses out of the Bible that just encourage you in the journey. You know, one of them is Isaiah chapter 40, which says this, Those who trust in the Lord will find new strength. They will soar high on wings like eagles. They will run and not be weary.

They will walk and not faint. That's describing the kind of life I think all of us want to have. You know, we want to live above and beyond the circumstances of our lives. When we do that, when we commit our lives to Christ, he gives us the power to do that.

We are influenced by our circumstances, but we are not controlled by our circumstances. And whatever we pass through, we see and look for the hand of God in guiding us, using us, fulfilling the deep desire in our heart to live a life that is worth living and that has a positive impact in the world. So Jay, let me thank you for being with us today and thank you for the time you spent invested in putting this book together. And I do hope that many of our listeners will get a copy, read it themselves, if they are Christians, read it themselves, understand this tool, and then pray that God will lead them to individuals with whom they can share this book as a first step of exposing someone to the good news about Christ. So thanks for being with us today. Well, I share that desire and I will be lifting up this broadcast and your work, Dr. Chapman, for all the days ahead. Thank you. God bless you guys.

Well done. I appreciate the time. Jay, thank you.

And I think you've heard I said this is in his wheelhouse right down the middle of the plate. You can hear the passion that Jay has for this topic because it's changed his life. If you want to know more about the Jesus Dare, we have links and you can find out more about that resource subtitled The Adventure You've Been Waiting For. Go to FiveLovedLanguages.com to find out more about that latest book by Jay Halitner.

Again, FiveLovedLanguages.com. When Kim Erickson's three-year-old son Austin died, she found resources to help her grieve, but not to help her live. Surviving Sorrow is coming up in one week. Well, a big thank you today to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Todd. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.