The Dad Difference - Bryan Loritts

Every child needs four gifts from their father. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, The Five Loved Languages. Today, pastor and author Brian LaRitz talks about the power of a father in the life of his children. Don't miss the encouragement straight ahead. A featured resource at FiveLovedLanguages.com is his book, The Dad Difference, the four most important gifts you can give to your kids.

Again, you'll find it at FiveLovedLanguages.com. Gary, your father made a difference in your life. What did he give you as a parent that you still carry with you today?

Oh, well, that's a hard question to answer. He gave me lots, so much, you know. One was a dedicated father, dedicated to being a father and dedicated to following God. And the latter is more important than the first because he wouldn't have been a good father without Christ in his life.

But I think the value of prayer, a work ethic, because he was a hard worker, both in his job and at home and in the garden. So yeah, an awful lot I gleaned from my father. So I am excited about our conversation today because I really believe the importance of the father in the home is just so needed in our culture today. And there's so much negativity too about dad that's put out there in the media.

We'll talk a little bit about that with Brian Loritz. He's the author of our featured resource, The Dad Difference, the four most important gifts you can give to your kids. He's an executive pastor at the Summit Church in North Carolina, founder and president of the Kynos Movement, an organization committed to seeing the multi-ethnic church become the new normal.

He's married to Cory and he's dad to three sons, Quentin, Miles and Jaden. You can find out more about him and our featured resource at fivelovelanguages.com. Well, Brian, welcome to Building Relationships. Oh, it's always great to be here with you, Gary, and I'm excited and honored to have been asked. Well, Brian, I've known your father, Crawford, for many years, and I'm guessing some of the things we're going to be talking about today came from your relationship with him.

Would I be right in that? Oh, absolutely. In fact, you know, I'm always quick to say with this book that I wrote, The Dad Difference, this is not me patting myself on the back and saying, learn from me as a dad.

I mean, I've got three teenage sons, 19, 17 and 15, and the jury is still very much out. It's really a narrative about lessons that I've learned, gifts that my dad gave me as a father. And so, yes, the principles are embedded and just my great privilege of being his son.

Yeah. Well, he certainly has had a ministry in the lives of many, many people. And so have you, of course. And that's exciting to see when our children, you know, follow God and walk in the truth. Scriptures say no greater joy than that. So I know that your dad is very grateful for the way you're using your life. Well, let's jump into it. Let's talk about the four gifts a father can give his children.

What are they? Why do they matter? Let's get started by just jumping in and kind of giving us an overview of the importance of a father. Yeah.

You know, I framed the whole thing, Gary, right in the beginning of the book. You know, I use the analogy that, you know, I've traveled a lot over the years and traveling from coast to coast. One of the things I picked up on very early was, you know, traveling from west to east, you tend to get to your destination faster because you have a tailwind.

But traveling from east to west, it normally takes you longer to get to your destination because you're dealing with a headwind. And I use that analogy of dads. And, you know, there's probably plenty of people listening right now and they would say, you know, I kind of had a headwind for my dad. You know, either he wasn't there at all physically, or maybe he was there physically, but emotionally he was absent.

Maybe he's very passive. And I just want to encourage people that you could still get to your God-ordained destiny in life. In fact, some of the best dads that I know are dads who kind of had a headwind for a dad, who weren't good examples, and they know the pain of that. And at some point they said to themselves, my kids will never know that pain. And so they became what I call a tailwind dad. And a tailwind dad is a dad who, through his intentionality, through his vision, really pushes and inspires their kids to hit the mark that God created them to have.

And that's what I had. And four things tailwind dads give to their kids that I unpack in the book, I use the acronym RITE, Gary, R-I-T-E, and that is they give them the gift of relationship. And all effective leadership really is birthed out of relationship. You know, you cannot lead effectively what you're just not relationally connected to intimately.

And so that involves just showing up, being present, being intentional, spending time. The I is integrity. And I'm very quick to say integrity is not moral perfection. None of us are morally perfect. In fact, I've got a whole chapter in the book where I just talk about apologies that my dad made. And he would pull us out of class when we were little oftentimes and would apologize to us for, you know, the way he spoke to us or accusing us of something that he found out later on we didn't do.

And what drove his apologies was his conviction rooted in the Word of God. So even in our mistakes, we can still be full of integrity. The third gift is teaching. I say dads are the tenured professors of their homes, and we're always teaching that not just verbally, although that's important, you know, spending time around the word at the dinner table. But how we treat mom, how we relate to people who've wronged us, how we go about our work, we're constantly teaching. And then the fourth and final gift is experiences. And tailwind dads don't just give their kids gifts, but they've got a vision for their children and they give them experiences to entrench the values that they want to see instilled to their kids. Yeah.

Well, those are powerful and looking forward to jumping into them further as we move along here. You know, it seems to me, Brian, that the culture and the media portrays fathers over the last few years and not a very positive light. Do you see that changing? Are we going to rediscover the importance of a father and communicate it in a cultural way?

I hope so, Gary. You know, which is part of the reason why I wrote this book. And I say early on, this is not me just piling on and bashing men, because to your point, that's very prevalent in our culture. And I think that's the reason why men tend to shy away from resources like this, because they just don't want to feel guilty. But on the other hand, Gary, I mean, you and I both know that one of the horrible gifts our forefather Adam gave us was the gift of passivity. And here is Adam watching a snake talk to his wife in Genesis chapter three.

And we know that because the Bible says that when Eve took an aid of the apple, or the fruit, she turned and gave to her husband who was with her. And so our natural default, the gravitational pull to manhood is downward into passivity. And unfortunately, that's become great fodder for media. So I'd like to see that narrative change. I'd love to see, you know, more books, more commercials, more television shows and media really lift up positive dads. But it's going to take some intentionality in the culture to expose those great stories. Brian, we have I know, a lot of African American listeners to our program, say just a word about the role of the father in the African American community in our day.

Yeah, you know, I think that's a great, great question, Gary. And the first thing it's important for me to say that no one ethnicity has a monopoly on sorry dads. I mean, that's something that is rampant throughout all ethnicities. But I think from a historical perspective, you know, when we just take a look back, you know, slavery really depended on on the dividing of the family.

And what was normal was on the auction blocks, dad was sent one place, mom and other kids to another place. So from day one, fractured families was the historical reality. But the truth of the matter is, we don't have to be handcuffed to history.

We can choose today to write a new legacy, to write a new new narrative. You know, I think of my own great, great grandfather, Peter, who was a slave in Asheville, North Carolina. And he came to know the Lord Jesus. And he married a woman and was faithful to her. And when the emancipation went down, their marriage continued and thrived. And then he had a son, my great grandfather, Milt, was married to his wife for over 50 years. They love Jesus.

One of their youngest sons was my grandfather, Crawford Willard Lawrence, Sr. He loved Jesus, had three kids. And then there's my dad, who's the godliest man that I know.

And in my direct line, Gary, there's no such thing as a man who divorced his wife, or a man who didn't love Jesus. And I know for a lot of people listening, they cannot relate to that. Well, my encouragement to you is start a legacy today.

Make up in your mind to kind of reverse the curse, so to speak, so that 150 years from now, your great, great grandson is on some radio show and just saying, let me just tell you how I got here. So there's hope, and we don't have to be chained to sociological reports. One of my favorite scriptures in the Bible talks about greater is he who's in us than he that is in the world. And faith was huge to the legacy of strong men, strong marriages, strong fathers, and my own legacy. All of us have to recognize that. We didn't choose our background. We didn't choose our father.

We didn't choose our parents or grandparents. Some of us are blessed in that we had good role models, others didn't. So let's talk to those who are listening and their fathers fail them in whatever way.

What do you say to those, those? Yeah, just to piggyback off what you said, Gary, you know, one of my friends, he's a pastor down in Florida. He says, you know, our past may explain us, but it doesn't excuse us. And, you know, I would just say that all effective fathers that I know, if there's one thing they had in common, it was intentionality.

That there was, there was a proactive decision they made that I'm going to step up to the plate and I'm going to be intentional here. And so I just want to encourage you, you know, I don't think good fathering just kind of happens by osmosis. If you've been through some pain, which the sociological data says that that's becoming more and more normal, that there's a lot of men with fatherhood wounds that I would say, you don't want to pass that on to your kids. That you actually have a leg up on someone like me in that you would say, I can identify with what it looks like to have a dad who just didn't step up. And I don't want to pass that on to my kids. I don't want them to feel what I went through. And that's why I'm saying earlier on, some of the best parents I know are those who know that wound, who feel it, and have made up in their minds, they just don't want to pass it on.

The other thing I would say, Gary, finally is, you know, pray and seek out a good mentor to help you in your journey of fatherhood. You know, that's why being involved in a church and especially a men's ministry, and just kind of looking around prayerfully, taking notes, who's doing that well, take them out to coffee or lunch, ask them some questions. And at some point, if it just feels right, if there's chemistry there, ask for help. You know, we men don't do well asking for help.

And that's not just when it comes to directions. But in general, we don't do well. And, you know, we're all in need of coaching. And especially in the area that matters the most, handing off a good legacy through our fathering, we all need good coaching.

Yeah, absolutely. What are some of the most common missteps that fathers make? And how do we avoid those? Yeah, so one of them I've already alluded to, it's in the area of passivity. The other one that really comes to mind, sociologists say, Gary, that we're in the age of extended adolescence. And they define adolescence as wanting the privileges of adulthood without the responsibilities. And because of that, adolescence isn't so much an age, it's a state of mind.

And I read a report some years ago that sociologists say, adolescence is actually extended now to age 35. And it's really prevalent among men. And it's men, you know, still living at home with their parents with no sense of vision, no sense of direction. You know, maybe they're playing video games all the day, pontificating on the world's problems on social media, but not really doing anything. And they actually say kind of that really thrives in affluent households where you have passive dads and coddling moms. So this isn't just a poor person's problem.

It really thrives in middle to upper middle class homes. And I've got a friend of mine who happens to be Asian. And we were talking one day, and I forget how the subject came up, but I asked him, I said, you know, give me one word to describe kind of how Asians approach parenting and their aspirations for their kids.

And he says, look, I'm painting with a broad stroke. But what's really common, my Asian friend said is, our parents just want us to be successful. And then he said, if there's one word that I would describe, the typical American aspiration for their kids is, we just want our kids to be happy. And when you parent with a happiness ethic, and you give your kids everything, it actually handcuffs them from greatness in their life. It's sort of like, I love biographies.

And you know, biographies kind of all follow this, you know, the same similar arc, you know, come from nothing, struggle, struggle, struggle, then then tumble into greatness. Well, it's interesting, very rarely do you read biographies on their kids. And I think it's because Gary, when their parents kind of go through struggle, make it big, one of the first things they say is my kids will never have to struggle the way that I struggled. And not realizing that that, again, just kind of handicaps them. And it saps them of grit and resilience. And it makes them brittle. And so it's, I would say that's a huge problem with fathers, is not allowing their kids to struggle with something.

Yeah. What about the wife who's listening? And she's saying, ooh, he's describing my husband, either in terms of being passive or extended adolescence, and that's some of the things you've mentioned. And so she's thinking in her own mind, you know, what can I do? What can I do?

How can I either help him or help the kids? What would you say to that wife? Yeah, it's a fine line, right? You know, because, you know, you want to have conversations, but you don't want to keep on beating the same old drum. And for men, that doesn't necessarily prove to be effective. I would say start with prayer. And, you know, just pray that God would move on the heart of the husband. I would say there is a place for a conversation where you, you know, and my wife is, she does this consistently, you know, where she'll just encourage me to step up in certain areas with a particular child.

I think that's beyond appropriate, that's actually necessary. Third, I would say, you know, recommend reading a book together that would address some of these issues. And then fourth, you know, there's great conferences that you all could go to together that would, again, address these issues. So this shoulder-to-shoulder thing that you could actually do with your husband that kind of softens the blow. So I would recommend those four or five things there, Gary. And the value of reading a book or going to a conference is, there's another voice that's speaking into the two of you.

It's not just you preaching to him. The exact same thing that the wife was saying, but all of a sudden it turns into an aha moment. Wow, I never heard this before, so. What about the single mom? I mean, you know, she is hearing this and she's thinking, you know, what's my kid going to be like?

They don't have a dad. Yeah, you know, actually I've got a sister who is raising two kids and, you know, she's in that journey and it's hard. You know, you're trying to play multiple roles, wear several different hats. Again, I would start with prayer and then I would start hanging out in environments that is conducive to finding really good, positive, winsome role models for your kids, environments like church. I would just spend a lot of time prayerfully, you know, investigating, you know, contemplating men who could step up to the plate.

If you're in an athletic league, maybe it could be a church league or whatever it may be. Just spend some time. And again, I would caution into rushing into something. Unfortunately, there are a lot of individuals out there who pass themselves off as one thing. And yet over time proved to be a completely different other.

And the damage that causes is horrific. So I would be really discerning and prayerful about it. But that's that's on the mom's side. You know, one of the things, Gary, that my dad just modeled so well for me growing up was he kind of had this philosophy of leave an extra plate out on the table. And I think what dad intuitively knew was, look, God's blessed us by no means were we rich or wealthy or whatever, but by the world standards, God had really blessed us materially.

And he wanted to share that with others. And my best friend in life, oldest of 16 kids, biological father was not in the picture, grew up in the projects. And yet he was always over our home for dinner. You know, oftentimes we went to ball games together. The three of us, me, him and my dad, we went fishing together. He actually, he actually lived with us for a period of time. And my parents actually helped him through college. Well, now he's about to celebrate 22 years of marriage. He's a he's a pastor and he's got three kids that that he's being a great father to. And he would say it's because of Crawford, who's just stepped up. So I would say, if you're a man listening in, keep your eyes open.

You may have your own biological kids, but keep your eyes open to that single mom who could be struggling and at least ask the question, how can we step in and fill in those gaps? Yeah, yeah. Well, I hope the men who are listening are hearing that, because I do think that they can make a tremendous difference in the life of a young man, just by being a friend, you know, bringing them in.

Yep. Brian, I had you on my program, Chris Fabry Live back before Father's Day. And there was a response to that program. We had people calling in from around the country saying, this is what my dad gave me. And after the program, I got an email from a listener who said, I've been listening to your program and Christian radio for a long time.

I've never heard such positive things. Usually when we talk about dads, it turns negative. And then she said, my own father was abusive to me. And she went into detail about this. And it was a, it was a horrific childhood for her, but she said, this is how far I've been able to come. Because when I, as I listened to your program, I didn't lament my own childhood as much as I thanked God for his fathering me and how I can have a, a positive view of dads now because of the work that God has done in my life. What do you think about, what would you say to her if you could talk with her today? Yeah, one, I'm, I'm really, um, not just encouraged, but blown away by her response.

Um, and you know, um, unfortunately her story is, um, it's not an outlier. There are plenty of people listening in who have similar stories and you know, my worldview, Chris and Gary, which is our worldview is I see things through a biblical lens and I would go, what would God have me to do in a situation like this? Where, you know, if I had a dad who was abusive, which my dad wasn't, but how would God want me to respond? One, I would say, you gotta forgive. Um, and you know, forgiveness isn't, um, isn't denial, but, uh, forgiveness is acknowledging the truth of what happened. And a lot of times forgiveness isn't a one and done. I mean, there's plenty of times when the hurt runs so deep, it's just a constant daily prayer, like the Lord's prayer, where I'm constantly forgiving and leaning into the grace of God. And we do that not just because it's right and because God has commanded us to, but it's also for our own benefit. Um, you know, this whole concept of hurt people hurt people.

There's a lot of truth to that. When, when I kind of wall up unforgiveness, the bitterness contaminates me and it robs me of my joy and it keeps me from living the kind of life God designed. But forgiveness is not necessarily reconciliation. And while the Bible would say we don't get a pass on forgiveness, reconciliation is a different matter.

I mean, Romans 12 talks about as best as you can be at peace with all people. And so there, there's a lot of people that I encounter where you go, man, I, I forgiven, but what about a relationship? I go, it, it takes two to have a healthy relationship.

And unless this person is willing to acknowledge what they did and is, is really contrite about it, I would caution you about entering into a relationship with them, especially if they haven't borne fruits of, of repentance and letting the spirit of God just guide and navigate you well. Brian, how do we teach our sons early on about being a good father themselves someday? Getting back to this thing on coaching, Gary, I am, you know, in my own journey into fatherhood and not only am I blessed with, uh, with a great model of my own dad, I've also leaned into some other men for coaching. Um, and just go, you know, I respect how you've raised your kids.

Give me some help. And one of my, one of my fatherhood coaches, as I call him, uh, encouraged me to, to, to go out with Corey over a weekend. Corey's my wife and to have what's called a vision weekend. And we did this when our kids were young. And, you know, we went to a hotel for a weekend and we just took out a sheet of paper and we just dialogued and we said, what are, what are the values we really want to see in our kids?

You know, one of them was gratitude. Uh, one of them was a, was a hard work ethic that we thought would serve them well, not just as kids, but in life and as dads. And, uh, and then the craft of plan where we could give them some great teaching and coaching and experiences that would instill that in them. And so, you know, at, at the age of 10, uh, we took them with us on a mission strip down to Honduras and they built houses and served and sat with orphans and heard their stories and, and got to know people.

Um, you know, we've, we fostered for a little bit, uh, in our own home. And so they were able to walk alongside those who are left less fortunate and, and the fruit that that's bearing in their lives. Now they're not perfect individuals are far from it, but the fruit that that's bearing in their lives is pretty incredible. And I'd like to believe that's going to stay with them and their journey into fatherhood. But again, I think the glue to all this was vision and intentionality. And I would just say every dad has a vision for their kids, whether or not you've written it down for some of you, it's, you know, it's athletic success and achievement, you know, and you spend a lot of time with them shooting hoops or throwing a baseball others is academic success, whatever it may be, you have a vision. And I can tell by how much time you spend with them, the question is, do you have the right kind of vision, um, that should be anchored in the principles of the word of God.

Right. In what ways can being a great father teach your daughters? Now you don't have daughters, but many of us do. Uh, how does it, how can being a good father help them become good mothers? Again, this whole concept of, uh, dads are always, always teaching. And, um, I think one of the things, uh, and I, and I actually have a whole section in the book that deals with it is that dads can, uh, instill in their daughters, what to look for and expect in, in a man.

And we can model that effectively to them. What does it look like to, to treat a woman? Um, you know, I, I have a friend of mine, um, you walk into his house, the first thing you see, the first thing you see is a bat mounted on a wall that has carved into it, two words, respect her.

And it's got all these signatures. Now all of his kids are grown now. And I asked him about the bat and he says, well, here's the deal. When our, when our daughters were in high school and started the date, there was no such thing as a man just coming over here, picking them up without me interviewing them first. So a couple of days before we'd sit out on the porch and you know, I'd get to know them and I'd lay down the rules. Here's what you will and won't, won't do with my daughter.

And if they agreed to it, we brought out the bat and they signed it. Um, a bit extreme, I know, but here's a dad just intentionally saying, uh, I'm called to protect. That's, that's one of my roles here. And I want to take that seriously. And, uh, and it's very important because it's been said that the core value, one of the core values for a man is significance. And one of the core values for a woman is security and to have a dad that provides that to their daughters is huge in their own emotional and overall development.

Yeah, that's for sure. Brian, we know that sometimes even when we feel like we're doing okay, we're really trying to be a good father that often our children will rebel against us as individuals. And this happens most often in the teenage years.

Uh, what causes that sometimes and how does a, how's a father respond to that? Well, you know, my dad has a saying, in fact, I put it in the book. He goes, uh, we parents love to take too much credit when our kids turn out right and too much blame when they don't.

And, um, you know, I think one of the things dad was trying to drive home was is to not attach your ultimate sense of significance, value and self worth and the performance of your kids. Um, and one of the things I try to say early on in the book is, you know, these four gifts, um, it's not a recipe to manufacturing great kids. It's not, um, you know, just like, you know, eating healthy does not guarantee long life. I mean, you can eat well and, and, and exercise well and still die in your twenties. But just like eating healthy and working out sets the table and increases the possibility for long life.

So these four things, you know, if you give these four gifts, it, it enhances the probability there. Uh, and so I want to, I want to just say those things up front and then, and then to also just give some hope, uh, you know, this whole idea of not attaching our sense of value or self esteem to the behavior of our kids. Like, have you seen God's kids lately? Like we can, we can be extremely unruly and rebellious. And it's not because we don't know better.

I mean, we have sin natures. Um, and so we do the best that, that we can. It was very important for me, Gary, to put in the book and I got, got one of my son's permission before I did it to talk in broad terms without mentioning his name about his journey.

And, um, you know, he, he went through, um, an extended period of time out in the proverbial far country. Um, and what's, what just blew my wife and I's mind is I sit there and I go, man, we've got three kids, same environment getting pretty much the same stuff and to seem to be flourishing and the other seems to be floundering. And, and I've got to learn to give myself grace and I've got to learn to give myself, um, a sense of forgiveness.

But what I've seen that really promotes rebellion in kids, especially in Christian homes, is a self-righteous legalistic rules driven performance ethic where it's more about performance and rules than an actual relationship with their kids. You know, one of the things, Gary, that you've really, um, influenced me on from afar is just this whole notion of learning my kids love language, speaking it often, speaking it well later on this afternoon, I'm going to knock off a little bit early. And, um, you know, one of my kids, he's a quality time individual. We'll go out to the driving range and we're just going to hit some balls and ultimately it's not even about working on the golf game.

It's just being together. Um, you know, one of my favorite verses is Matthew three 17 as Jesus is coming out of the water being baptized, the heavens open up and he hears God say of him, this is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased. And Gary, this is before he preaches a sermon. It's before he picks his disciples.

It's before, before he performs a miracle, dies on the cross or rises from the grave. And God just says, look, I just want you to know, son, I'm proud of you. And I, and, and I think our kids need to know that like, and, and don't attach, I'm proud of you to their performance.

I'm just proud of you. And I think when a kid feels secure that, that lessens the probability of, of rebellion. I fully agree with that. The relationship that you have and the communicating of love in a way that they understand so important, because if they feel loved, they're far less likely to rebel.

Doesn't mean they want, but they're less likely. And even if they do, there's an anchor there, you know, there's an emotional attachment there between them and the father and the mother for that matter. Then let's talk a little bit about, about marriage and how the marriage relationship relates to being a good father.

Yeah. You know, my dad often says, said to me, says to me that he did his best parenting on his knees and, and how him and mom would, would pray daily for us. And my wife and I are seeking to mimic the same thing of just joining together, praying for, for our kids, and then really just, you know, trying to listen to my wife. You know, I, I would say that my wife is indicative of a lot of women in that she just has this sixth sense about her, this sense of intuition, wisdom, discernment. And she will, as I mentioned before, oftentimes maybe I come home from work or from a trip and she would pull me to the side and would say, listen, I'm seeing something in a certain child of ours. And I think you need to step up and speak to that, which is really important. And so as a husband trying to really listen to my wife and realize this is parenting the way God designed, it should be a team sport and this mutual Ephesians 5 21 submission to one another, and really trusting my wife and stepping up, she's really helped me along those lines.

Right. And what about the father who realizes that he hasn't done the best job and yet he hears this and he's been thinking about it. He feels like he's failed his kids in a way. Where does he start if he sincerely, honestly wants to turn and, and move toward becoming a good father?

Well, first I just want to encourage this dad, Gary, and would, would just authentically say, join the club. You know, I haven't talked to a single dad who doesn't have regrets, or if I could only do it again, I would do it this way, sensibility to them. You know, I I'm a pastor and a lot of times when I sit with older pastors and would say, look, if you could do something different, what would it be? I can't, I can't think of a single pastor who didn't say something along the lines of, I would have, I would have been home more. I would have knocked off work a little earlier.

I would have been at more ball games with my kids, recitals with my daughters, whatever it may be. So I would, I would just say, you know, all of us have have regrets, even my own dad. Dad was an evangelist for years with a nonprofit Christian organization and he crisscrossed this country. And dad has regrets looking back, just going, man, I traveled way too much.

So, and dad did a phenomenal job. So I would say you're probably beating yourself up too much. But, but secondly, I would say authentically apologize to your kids, acknowledge it. And, and I think we all could use a little coaching when it comes to apologies. Apologies are not, I'm sorry you took it that way, or I'm sorry you heard it that way. No apologies take ownership. They're specific.

They name kind of what, what you feel like the offense is. And then it makes the big ask at the end. And that is, will you forgive me? And I think if you do that many times, not every time, but many time with times when you model that humility, it really does set the table for authentic relationships. And Rick Warren once said, when men share their strengths, we compete. But when we share our weaknesses, we draw near we draw close to one another. And I think that's not just of peer relationships with men.

I just think that's a good human principle that when a person comes to you and weakness and humility, it really does set the table brings the defenses down and, and makes the, the, the likelihood of a thriving relationship at least a strong possibility. Yeah. And I find that most children are willing to forgive. Yes. Yes. If they hear an apology and at the same time, we're teaching them a great skill in life because they too are going to have to apologize along the way because they're not going to be perfect either. Right.

Yeah. What about the single dad? Maybe it's a divorce situation, and he only sees the children every other weekend or something. What do you say to that dad? Yeah, I would say, you know, keep your promises and show up. And when you show up, you know, there's this, there's this term, you know, this whole notion of a Disneyland dad. And what that speaks to is really this situation, Gary, you brought up where a lot of dads just have guilt.

And so what they do is they, you know, they shower their kids with gifts and they, you know, they spoil them rotten and yes, there's a place for gifts. But I would say when you show up, the number one gift you give them is yourself and your, and your presence. I would also encourage that no matter what led to the demise or the relationship with their mother is, is try to honor their mom in your speech. You know, even though it could be very bad and even though she may be wrong on, on all points, get a unified front. My wife comes from a divorce situation. Years later, what lingers with her are after the divorce, just feeling like her dad just didn't show up the way that that he could have.

Praise God. Since then they they've been able to stitch things together. He's apologized to her previous point. And my wife as an adult has, has forgiven, but we men need to keep our word and show up and show by our example that we have a vested interest in the overall growth, health and development of that child.

Yeah. As you look on your own life, Brian, what parts of fatherhood had been harder maybe than you expected and maybe some that have been easier than you expected? Well, I just got to tell you, this phase of fatherhood, you know, again, I have a 19, 15 year old, um, you know, these, these three boys, in fact, my dad and I were just talking about this, uh, two days ago. This is for me, this is the hardest phase, uh, because, you know, our, our kids are getting older, they're trending more into, um, into independence. And so I'm watching them, uh, make mistakes and wanting them to own their outcomes. But at the same time, it's hard to not step in and just prevent some things. Now, of course, there are some things that we draw hard lines on and we step in, but, um, you know, um, that's been hard biting my tongue, parenting, especially my oldest, who's a, who's a great, great kid, but he's, you know, getting into these young adult years, you know, where I'm watching him make some decisions, just going, Ooh, I don't, I don't think that's the best thing.

Um, and giving advice and then kind of watching it blow up. That's hard. That's hard.

Uh, Gary, you should write a book on parenting young adults. Um, it's a challenge. It's a challenge. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely. It's, I think it's probably for most parents. It's it can be the hardest part. Yeah.

Yeah. How about the relationship that one has with their earthly father and that relationship, how does that often influence their relationship with their heavenly father? Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, Gary, you know, the very first paragraph of the book, um, I just come out saying, I really believe dad is the most powerful three letter word in the English language. And I know some theologians are going nuts right now and going, well, I can think of another three letter word and that's God. Um, and yes, yes, I absolutely, you have a point, but, but my point is that oftentimes how we see God is through the lens of how we experienced that.

Right. And that shapes our perspective of God. And so if, if, if your dad was nothing's ever good enough, always poking holes in things, finding, you know, the weaknesses, what you could have done better. That's how you're going to view God. Um, and so what that does for me as a dad, it's really helpful to think, man, I'm giving them a paradigm for how they're going to view God later on in life, knowing I'm, I'm far from God. I'll, I'm going to always mess up, but there's a, there's an appropriate, when I really understand that you should feel an appropriate weightiness to being a dad because you really are shaping what their perception of God will be.

Yeah. It's a sobering thought, but it's true. I think it's very, very true.

Well, Brian, it's been good to have you on the program today and I am so glad you wrote this book. I think it's going to help a lot of fathers. I think most fathers aspire to be better. You know, it's not a matter of being perfect.

It's just growing. And I think this book is going to help them do it. So thanks for being with us today and thanks for your ministry. Well, thanks for having me. Well, we hope this conversation has encouraged every dad listening and everyone who has a dad.

So that covers everybody. There's so much in the culture and in the media that tries to say to dads, you're not important and that's not true. And Brian's book could be the followup you need after hearing the discussion. It's titled the dad difference, the four most important gifts you can give to your kids. You can find out more at five love languages dot com.

Again, five love languages dot com. And I want to encourage you if your marriage is going through a storm, maybe the last few months of covid-19, you've had to navigate some physical or financial storm that you hadn't prepared for. Don't miss the conversation next week with Sarah and Jeff. They faced the waves of chronic illness, children with special needs and devastating financial loss. When all that crashed over their marriage, they could have given up. Instead, they relied on the one who commands the winds and the seas. If you are in a place of despair and pain, if the person in the Bible you feel most like is Job, don't miss the conversation with Sarah and Jeff Walton next week as they show how you can stay together through the storms. Before we go, let me thank our production team Steve Wick and Janice Todd Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman as a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.