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Good Work - Dave Hataj

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman
The Truth Network Radio
February 20, 2021 1:00 am

Good Work - Dave Hataj

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman

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February 20, 2021 1:00 am

Many people talk about being “called” into ministry, but today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, you’ll hear Dave’s story. He was called from being a pastor back into his family’s gear shop. It was something he never wanted to do, but the transition became a spiritually transformative season of his life. If you’re struggling with finding purpose in your work, don’t miss the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

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Equal housing lender not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah will what can a blue-collar business teach us about work and faith find out today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman were people and were broken and often things don't mesh well and I think the real challenge is how do we help organizations and businesses in communities all work together Building Relationships and really help you. Welcome to building relationship bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" has to rely on family earshot that time to become a truly transformative season of life today will unpack when he learned about how my time work matters to blue-collar business change people and even the day Maytag is our guest today featured resources website work how blue-collar business can change lives, communities were find out more. Five love Gary when this topic came on our radar thought about your dad who worked in a mill in North Carolina and you probably learned a lot about hard work and from him. Is that true relatives drew Chris. My dad worked on the third shift in a textile mill and go to work at 11 at night and get off at seven in the morning and when he became home. Of course he was getting ready to go to bed and I was getting ready to go to school but that he would always kneel beside his bed in the morning before he went to bed and praying he prayed out loud and I would often hear him call my name along with my sister's name in his prayers and so you know I just saw him as a hard-working man in a praying man is later that I realized the reason he chose to work on that shift was because they want to be available in the afternoon when my sister and I got home from school so that we could be together and then later I figured also. It was because he want us to work in the garden with him about dad blended work and his faith in a really powerful way will only hear more about that from our guest today, Dave hates tag HAT AG is how you spell his name is a second-generation president and owner of Edgerton Geer Inc. Wisconsin-based custom gear manufacturer. Now here's the here's the back story as a journeyman machinist by age 21. He then earned a bachelors degree from the University of California at Irvine. He completed his Masters degree from Regent College in Vancouver, BC.

His graduate work focused on systems theory in a family business context in 2014. He earned a doctorate of transformational leadership from Baci graduate University developing a curriculum called craftsman with character. The course introduces high school students to the trades and manufacturing as an excellent career path while developing character and soft skills. That's Dave hates tag and he's joining us today will day. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Chapman. Thank you very much for having me on this real privilege, Chris is told us something about your educational career, reminded me of mine and my dad once said to my son after I got a degree another degree. Another degree said son when you get a job so tell us a little bit more about yourself and your family and the family you grew up in. Well, I think all of us think our childhood is normal is normal.

That's all we know right but by normal was.

Both of my grandparents actually own taverns in northern Wisconsin. And so alcohol and in that whole culture is very, very, much a part of my childhood and I grew up in the shop. Start the shop in 1962. So by age 5. I was working in the shop and I basically became a journeyman by time I was 22, but drinking and alcohol and in that whole lifestyle was very much a part of my culture. In fact, my grandfather actually died as a homeless person in Chicago with his alcohol struggle. So by the time I was 19 I was following my father's footsteps and my grandfather's footsteps. I was drinking a lot on on the weekends. Even though was working in the shop during the during the day after I graduate from high school. My mother had taken us to all of us kids to church when I was little. She's a very devout follower of Jesus, but my dad somewhere along the way, became an angry atheist and so faith wasn't a big part of my life until age 19. When I had one of those pretty dramatic conversion experiences and basically got turned my world upside down and before I knew it I was finishing my apprenticeship and felt as often people feel quote called to the ministry, not really knowing what that meant but I got hooked up with athletes in action kinda ran away from home went out to California and followed the typical career path of working in the church doing short-term missions got a job as a as a pastor to college students. Even though I'd never been to college up to that point and had a pretty rough burnout experience in that church, my wife. I met her when I was in school at Irvine, California, and we basically start a little home church. We did mission work we did a lot of things in it. I just really try to figure out Lord what what would you have me do with my life and back then and I think it's still true today. That means, well you should go be a pastor or missionary or some along those lines. David sounds like God really has moved and shaped your career quote unquote career path. So how did you get from that, then back into the family business very reluctantly let me put it that way if I I thought I was supposed to be a pastor so I even went up to after I went to University of California Irvine got a degree in social science which still not quite sure what that was but it but it was pretty relevant. It turned out as his life went on my wife and I went up to Regent College and I was actually taken 11 of those classes that you explore what your talents are, what your gifting is in and calling Regent College as a theological graduate school so you logically follows. I was going to go there and get a degree and probably be a pastor but in the midst of that class. At the end of it came back and it said you are uniquely gifted and qualified to run a small family owned manufacturing company that you got understand at that point I swore I'd never come back to Wisconsin because the machine shop was the darkest, most decadent place on the planet for me. I don't think God could at any any relevance to machine shop whatsoever.

My dad will start to have some health issues and we felt very strongly that God said you gotta go back home went out and did you question God.

At that point coming because here, are you studying the ministry in all of this. What you do and God and to me it would probably better struggle to do. That was a struggle for you. It's been 29 years and it still struggle.

Now, back will I think my wife and I both thought we'd come back for two years maybe five years honor my parents help help the business get to a point where my folks could sell at my dad could retire and then God would show us what he really wanted to do her part with our lives. What real ministry would look like as I just mentioned. That was 29 years ago and still counting and I and I think a big part of the journey has been. God wanted to read to find what that definition of being called to the ministry really is no so how does gears. Now I know much about beers. Okay, how do gears for to fit into all of this. Why I think that's part of the redefinition of ministry a while ago I read a book by just inducer and I think it was your work matters to God or or one of those titles any any points out that you know the role of business is to provide goods and services so the community can thrive and also to provide meaningful employment and the creation mandate your back in Genesis talks about how were really supposed to help create a civilization so can thrive.

So gears that's that's all I know. That's all I knew for my whole life and I was asking a question. What was gears have to do with the kingdom of God.

Well, in this whole covert world written right now. We've had to redefine her really asked the question who who is essential what kind of work is essential and I still remember when when the coven pandemic first broke out that there saying everybody that's nonessential has to stay home and I'm going to hold it. What about us gear makers because we may gears for equipment that make medical mass that make the bets that help keep the power on and deliver food and and all of that and so gears you know people don't understand that that without gears. Modern civilization would not exist means literally everything that we would not be having this conversation put it that way because gears power electricity to keep the power lines going.

They make the clothes were wearing. They help grow the food they they print all your books. Dr. Chapman years blocking the more and more as you talk, but it's really true. It's amazing that one time 70% of our business was in the printing industry so gears are absolute integral part of of our civilization, and I've come to understand that this is my calling. This is what God asked me to do to help service kingdom.

I can see that.

So to providing goods and services that are helping people ministering to people and as you said earlier, providing jobs for people vocations for other people so I can certainly I can certainly say that again Dave Maytag is joining us.

He's the second generation president and owner of Edgerton gear, Inc. Wisconsin-based custom gear manufacturer and in the very first chapter. Actually, the introduction debut gears in God's kingdom you say when gears are damaged and not mashing properly. Bad things happen. The entire machine suffers.

The other components can't function as they were meant to and the whole system breaks down and the end gears are basically if you put your fingers together there like teeth that that go together and then move smoothly and if one gets broken off. It changes everything. There's there's a spiritual component to that is in there absolutely no we are meant to be in community with each other and I think I often tell her students were created for two reasons. It was besides our are or need for basic food, water and shelter. We are meant to be in relationship and to be in and to do something purposeful and so business blue-collar business all businesses. All organizations when we are connected to each other and in enmeshed with each other and serving each other and recognize needs to recognize each other's gifts and talents and how we complement each other things go really well but were people and were broken and often things don't mesh well and I think the real challenge is how do we help our organizations in our businesses and communities all work together Building Relationships and really healthy powerful ways. This is very impactful now.

The first two words of the title of your book is good work. Some people are asking is work good if it is what makes it good is hardware so that what I think anytime work is purposeful and it is contributing to the to goods and services of the community and is providing employment. It allows us to thrive is good work and I and I think when we do it with integrity and with excellence.

Work is a way that that we express our creativity or individual humanity and work is a tremendous gift know that when the fall happened. That didn't say work is done.

God worked. He calls us to work, there's thorns and thistles now, but ultimately the kingdom is really about how to express ourselves, and in the way God asked us to think of some of us have read books about business owners and executives and how they bring together their their work, their positions and their faith in God but your emphasis is on blue-collar workers and businesses and how they can change lives and in the ultimate communities and the world. So talk a bit about that a lot. I used to you know think that ultimately obviously ministry entailed working in the church are doing mission work or or whatever, but the reality is most of us spend our lives in our communities, and the majority of jobs are blue-collar work or work were making our community somehow function.

Whether it's it's as plumbers or carpenters or or even working in a school driving a truck. There are so many different jobs blue-collar work. I think the I refer to is just the average person that's really that heartbeat, the lifeblood of the of the community and when we make that a focus and understand that our role is so important to the health of our communities again work that I'm in the title of of the show, building quality relationships. That's what we do and we focus our work and understand that that our role can help build those quality relationships that allows people to thrive that allows young people to discover their purpose in their their place in this world you blue-collar and and all kinds work.

I think me tremendously more impactful than I think we really understand or can imagine it. I was talking with a lady wants to work in a factory where they made blankets and her job was like sewing the end of the blanket same thing over and over all day long and said to her that you get bored with that and she said all know she said I realize every every blanket that I put is Simon is going to keep somebody warm. Oh yeah I got it set up. Even Monday work if you got the right picture. It is very meaningful and I think that's the way it is. It's a matter of perspective and I talk about that in our shop or by the shop about 35 people and you're right, you might be at a machine all day like how does this have any impact on the world whatsoever.

We constantly remind our employees.

This is where that gear is going this gears making toilet paper.

This gears helping make aluminum cans. This gears help in your create mask or or whatever purpose it is and once we connect the final outcome of the purpose of that year it. It really gives us a sense of perspective and purpose in what we do every day.

Now I can say that seems to me that there are a number of high school students college graduates who are struggling with this whole area of vocation. I can't find a job that looks anything like what they feel might be there quote calling them think and I've been a Christian, Jenna, and what what advice you give.

Those are still grappling with what what what is my calling and how were left on the job fits who I am.

I don't know if you like my answer or I don't know love parents are like my answer but it but I would tell people it just got to go to work. You gotta get a job. It may not fit. It may not seem to fit who you are, but I rely heavily on the life of Joseph, and I have to think, you know, look how God orchestrated his whole life. I can't believe he felt called to be a slave or to get thrown into prison to serve in prison and all these jobs that God is orchestrated throughout his whole life and when I look back over my life I've I've clean bathrooms and in state parks. I've driven the bus I worked in farm fields, numerous other jobs and I think we often get caught up in looking for that perfect job without recognizing that every job is going to teach us something every job that we do God's gonna work to do to reformer character and maybe prepares for something down the road they was Eugene Peterson who said the workplace is the primary place of spiritual formation that God grosses up and I think too often we spend too much time purse trying to find that perfect job that were called to an you know if you just get a job, any job God's gonna work through that. I think in your it.

Nothing's going to go to waste. He's gonna prepare you.

I think for what he's got for you down the road to think there are people who are in jobs that were there not really full, for they don't feel fulfilled in the job.

It seems to Monday and to them their working and then I gonna leave her job because I go to provide for their family but they are struggling to find a sense of joy or accomplishment in the middle of all of that. So seems like you're saying if you're there give it your best and see what God does because typically there's always another step in God's plan for us absolutely got stories in a one of a my I work for cement contractor years ago and he was the most horrible ordinary guy and I meet Cusson swear up and I have every EPL nest every day about something I'm like Lord. What's the purpose of this and I don't and was his purpose.

They stay there long time that that became pretty clear, but it really challenged me to have an attitude of gratitude in in everything that I did and it really challenged me to pray for that boss and a challenged me to to understand and to learn not to allow his his anger, his rage to affect my integrity of what God was calling me to do every day at work and and I think so many jobs that that I've been over my life that it isn't that matter of perspective. It's that attitude of gratitude. It's it's a prayerful submission to what were called to do that day and I've noticed just in my own work life, and I've seen it. My staff when when you come to work with a bad attitude and you get just nasty and angry, and you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed that affects everything throughout the whole organization affect your whole day and affect your perception or your attitude toward your work again. I'm outcome to go back to Joseph, and I wonder what kinda hot. How did he maintain his life of excellence and integrity in in in the mist of prison and all the other jobs that he was called to do now now so if you're in place of the word you feel oppressed, workplace what one of things I hear you saying is that God has a purpose in your being there and it may be praying for those people being example to them does necessary mean you have to stay there forever because I heard you said you didn't stay too long. No no in some date someplace that has stale necessity a silly job I could fire is going out of school and in different places and that sometimes it go and pray Lord did not hear soon as possible and sometimes goes you know what, I'm not through yet. You need to stay there little while longer, and other times like you're in the business.

29 years.

Like I said I thought a beer for five years going on 29 and boy there's been a lot of times it's a Lord, are you sure are you sure you got some Nelson binds the I'm not done that. You gotta hang in there and now it's actually transformed the place where I can ever imagine leaving, but that's a whole another snow area name in the book you quoted Spider-Man is saying this because with much power comes much responsibility do you feel it the reason many of us don't seem to take responsibility in changing what's going on in our world is because deep down we feel like we don't have any power to change you. And I can't I don't have any power to make things different here. I thought a lot about that question in that topic. In it, and I think there's two things and one new kid on absolutely. We are discouraged we feel powerless, you were wounded were broken. We might work in an oppressed work environment or or just life in general, really, really, is just challenging and we have so many crises happening all at once. Maybe in our lives and we do feel powerless, but but I think this the second reason is, again, this may not be popular to say this but I think it's often because we lack humility and faith that I and I say that carefully because I just think it's a lot easier to complain and and just be judge mental and be defensive about her situation rather than really saying okay.

What is my part. What is God calling me to be here and do I have an influence, and one of the one of things I try to tell her students do you ever never goes when you walk into a room that you can or somebody else can walk in the room if there are really foul mood. They can change the whole dynamic of that room made at a meeting to be a real dollar but but it works the other way could really be uplifting and I and I think we often discount the role that we can play in changing our work environments. Even if it's a shopper in office just by saying okay, how can I be God's instrument of transformation, even in this little situation that seems so difficult and I think once we combine humility with prayer and with faith and really ask God spirited to enter into the whole situation were not nearly as powerless as we think we are because the spirit of God is working in us and through us. I guess actually in reality, we are influencing people around us every single day right, either negatively or positively. But we are having the power of influence on the people to work around us at least absolutely at and I think he just nailed it.

What side are we going to be on a reason to be a negative influence or a positive influence and in being a follower of Jesus.

We got the we got the power of the living God working through us and in again II think we discount how powerful he can be working through us. I think the real struggle. Though Davies is seeing that on a day-to-day basis.

It's like I can hear a sermon about that or I can hear this program and hear you say that is like makes a whole lot of sense.

And then I get into any work on the gears and work on the widgets are doing the you know whatever it is that I'm doing and I lose sight of that. So there I think what part of what you're saying is you have to stay connected to the real source and there is an aspect of faith. I really believe that God is doing something in hand through me as I whatever I'm doing fit pipe you know plumbing I I have to really hang on and believe God is at work here. I'm going with him today and remember when when Elijah wanted to see God writing. I see the power of God, and I wasn't in the storm. It wasn't in the wind. It was in that still small voice, and I think in the daily interactions and in our jobs matter what they are what you eat.

We often want the big dramatic homerun, but I think it's in those little quiet moments when we serve are employed are coworkers weed when week recognize something's not quite right you. I want to put a little bit extra into effort into that and I want to make a commitment to excellence in everything I do. It's those little moments that add up that before you know it boy some change that I change the workplace change than my coworker change what happened. And I think that's how God works. Those incremental moments by moments that he calls us to faithfulness and obedience day. We often hear people talk about having a good work ethic are strong worth ethic defined that word for that concept for I go all the way back to your the sermon on the moat and when Jesus says, seek to seek God's kingdom and his righteousness, and I remember Dallas Willard translated the work. The term righteousness is true inner goodness and so were supposed to seek God's kingdom and is true inner goodness, what is goodness look like it's kind of a term that I think it's overused, but we've never really thought about what is goodness look like in and we talk about the golden rule in terms of treat others as you want to be treated but but goodness is so it's it's off its' think of our soul in our hearts, and it affects everything we do.

So a good work ethic would be a person who's come would be a person is committed to excellence is trustworthy, hasn't tried integrity whose honest whose human humble in all circumstances is someone that you want to work with me. Just think about about all the different jobs people I worked at and I think about the people at exhibit a good work ethic exhibited goodness and so I have to think about do I want to be she that kind of person. Other people want to work with, or do I want to be that person that is like no I rather work. I rather not be around that person. I think it's pretty common sense. Once we get down to it now so so how how do we live that out in the workplace, assuming we think and agree with that, the want to be a person that really just demonstrates goodness to other people. How do you pull that off again.

I think it was slow what is I think your spiritual life. I don't think were really able to be good without the grace of God in our lives.

Let that daily connection with God I think is absolutely critical and is a Guinness as we pray want one of my prayers every morning when I when I take my dog for a walk is Lord I want I want you to have your thoughts in me. I want to see as you see I want to hear is you see here. I want to speak as you would have me speak and I think once we re-re-orientate ourselves to to the life of God and in the kingdom of God. Then throughout the day. We get all these examples of okay in this this difficult situation comes up in my going to be defensive, or am I going to try to be humble and try to work through it in my going to not cut a corner or my going to just make the best possible product is. As I possibly can Megan to be influenced by my coworkers really bad data card and start they went the ditch. They had a fight with their wife or whatever it might initial grace that person or my can react and let their bed. Attitude difficulties affect my my mood and so I think throughout the day. There are there are literally thousands of opportunities for me to exhibit goodness and humility worked or not and I that the real challenges. Can I be constantly cognizant of that throughout the day. I hear you saying we need outside help you act like a simple who had 1/2 not natural to do that living. Let me give you situation unit so your Christian in a work setting and you see coworkers who are really kind of slacking off. They're not giving 100% inner there is not getting the job redone like it should be done as a Christian, what you do in this setting. What to two possible scenarios what it depends on your your position. Are you a team leader are you are you to position of leadership.

Can you call that person out in a in a gentle but firm way and say all that that's not what were about you can't be on your phone all the time you not doing your job. You're not honoring God or just not honoring your boss by doing a good job that I think a lot of us in different jobs were not in that position were on the same level playing field is anybody else we don't want to be that tattletale you know we don't want to be that rat slate. Let me answer that by by story that I had when I was in college I was broke desperately needs a job.

I swore I'd never go back to being a machinist but five blocks from our house was a machine shop that was a defense contractor making parts for the Tomahawk cruise missile at the time and the only job I could get there. The first they were higher, but once they found out I was a journeyman machinist.

He said oh my gosh yeah come on in. Right now will give you job while the second shift so I started at 330 in the afternoon I worked till I think one of the morning well in that job by my boss was in Elko my foreman was an alcoholic who went to the bars every night about 10 o'clock. He did come back to part-time. One of my coworkers was a cocaine dealer and he would literally cut deals all day long.

Another coworker was one of his customers. Another gentleman braked about how he was such a great family Mandan and great husband and father to his children when he started to leave and every night at 9 o'clock have an affair with another woman and one come back till after now I was the only one there doing my job and I'm going this is nuts and I was then I was told that that I was making too many parts and I was making the guy on the on the dayshift look bad so then they came in and said you gotta slow down your your shown everybody on several Lord what I do in that situation and and I definitely was the low man.

The total pole and so right when I learned through that is, you know what I may not have a lot of powered it to two you'll call people out, but all I could do was lead by example in my life is going to speak louder than anything. So if like I continue to maintain my integrity and show respect that got that actually made that the gentleman that was having the affair very, very angry because he saw me write read my Bible, something that I'd have time at work machine is rotted and he just got furious at me and it was very uncomfortable for people around me to see someone that was.

Not going to cheat the system. That was good by another whole worldview but say you know what, I'm not just working on my boss I'm working on to God and I still need to do a good job no matter what says basically that modeling right, conscientious lifestyle exactly what the other things that you say in the book is that God is infinitely more concerned with who we become. Then he is with what we accomplish and think most Christians would identify with that.

However, in most jobs.

We are evaluated on what we accomplish, how you responded that while Wheatley taken a lot of high school students, and we talk a lot about character and what we've realized is that our inner character is really determines our outward performance, so a quality person is going to do quality work and if we can focus on our inner character, and how who God is calling us to be and how is want to grow us up.

I don't have to worry a whole lot about my accomplishments or my performance is actually just follow suit and we see that every day in the shop floor if you can you can help a person be honest and committed to excellence and attention to detail their results follow. It's really that matter of the heart. The character that that I think matters more than anything so it's the matter of the dealing with the inner person and then that shows up in the work if if there if there really committed to character and to God that they will accomplish the work absolutely absolutely see it over and over again. I encourage people who are in a job where they just feel like their failure in their job they dislike on this. I'm just blown it.

Maybe over and over again in the situation.

I do understand down on myself. I can't leave the job because I got have no money but does feel badly about themselves. Yeah, and I would go back to that job that I had for that concrete boss who made me feel absolutely worthless you honestly, I'd I worked hard was I a gifted cement worker. I don't know why I really don't think so, but his his perception of me and everybody else really really beat me up to a point where my self-esteem and my my sense of faith.

There was pretty great in the next job I had. After that I worked at a state park and apply the best boss in the world that was just the opposite and I and I learned that a lot of times my perception of failure is that exactly that it's not. It's my perception.

It's not reality yet and I don't think God use any of us as failures and I think that's again. I mean we we screw up we make mistakes. We struggle at times, but, but, like a father with a child or you know I don't look at any of my sons and they screw up. I don't look at them as failures. I look at them as opportunities to grow and to be better and so I again I think it comes back to the spiritual life that if were not connected to the source for not allowing God to feed our minds and our hearts and constantly instruct us on who we are as his kids, and who is trying to grow us up to be.

I think the world's messages are jobs or messages from work they really just beat us down and and got ice. I struggle, self-esteem, my entire life and I find that I I need to be around people. My wife is phenomenal. That way, just let reminding me who I am and whose I am and then no amount of of job performance or other people judging me is going to affect my my true standing of of who I really am now what about people who view their own success in terms of how much money they make, and hence the idea I'm gonna be a millionaire before and 30 or whatever and you know this is not, however, I can get there it, success. If I like a lot of money when you respond to those that idea. Well, I think that the media is full of stories to the contrary, you know, in our class with character course we teach our high school students.

We watch this documentary called the happy movie and in that they share statistics that the person the difference between the person who's on the streets just struggling to survive versus someone was making 50,000 near your happiness level is. And that's dramatic money makes a huge difference but they show the statistics that the person that makes 50,000 year versus 50 million or 5 million a year there happiness level is really there's really no difference. In fact, the wealthier you are, there's evidence that says maybe the more miserable you are, Ed, and I've lived and I lived in Newport Beach California when I was in school I got to know a lot of wealthy people and I had to know a lot of really miserable wealthy people and I think that whole lie that money is going to make us happy. We need to really come to grips with that and examine that direct X he talked about quite a bit my book, you know, but but again it comes back to what were made for and and were made to have a sense of purpose. They were made to have deep, meaningful relationships and money can't buy those things and so I just really encourage boy if you can pursue money, you better take a really good hard look at what your endgame is because it may not be what you thought was going to be Jesus once said the man's life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses exactly where where we learn and that hopefully nothing wrong with making money right know for businesses survive. We absolutely gotta make money. One might when my mentors used to say that the prophet to a business is like blood to the body.

You know we need profit to survive we need blood to live but we don't look for blood you don't exist to make blood and I don't think a business exist just to make profit. A business exist. Again, back to goods and services into meaningful employment have a deeper sense of purpose and I think people, businesses, business leaders get in trouble when they put profitability. Maximizing profitability is her number one euro value and goal.

But I think we get in trouble.

We do that because if we make profit. The number one goal often leads to compromise and how we treat our customers and how we treat each other and so that the challenge I think is again what is a fair profit. What is it mean to be truly good to treat our customers as art as ourselves.

We have a practice here in our business that every job that we do we do it a cost analysis at the end of the job and if we feel we made too much of a profit.

We will actually call the customer so you know what we we quoted that job too high. We actually need to reteach the price.

Can you imagine our customers response to that happy about it like it will be back the next time I have a rucksack. They we know there are people who are is, living paycheck to paycheck. Any word for those people and things like to say to them while my wife and I we were married 31 years now and and we were pretty poor. For a while I was a student, I was a student later. I didn't go to college right away and so money was tight and some of the basic things that I think we've often lost is the sense of having a budget, we would have the old-fashioned way.

Read we take our paycheck and if we want to have date we have envelope for date night be a envelope for groceries. Good envelope and overall the other things that I think especially with social media. Today, we are overwhelmed with advertising. We are overwhelmed with with what in the media tells the good life could should be and I think we've we've bought into the lie of stuff makes us happy. Like you mentioned earlier life does not consist in stuff as Jesus would teach about and it we've lost the art of delayed gratification. You know we want instant gratification, and I think this just a real lack of awareness that you the simple life in the discipline wife life can be so fruitful and so meaningful in it and it frees us from that trap of of never quite having enough in the early days of our marriage my wife and I played little game called let's see how many things we can do without that everybody else thinks they have to have we go down to the store look at stuff you know we had some free time and insight integrate with her not have that experience. If you place the relationship is the important thing about the staff we have or don't. That's probably the bottom line is that's wonderful.

There's probably a lot of older adults who are listening today who also have adult children and their children have not embraced what were talking about. They like never they just don't have the sense of viewing work as were talking about today can parents influence adult children, and if so how place questions don't get easier do that but you know you.we got adult children now and and we deal with young adults a lot in her business and I think the number one thing is you mentioned little bit earlier, we have to model you know what were talking about know we had practice what we preach and it sounds pretty simple but I've I've seen parents. You say you know they don't want their kids to drink but they're out in Oak every weekend just really living it up and and and and even on a deeper level. I think our kids really watch our lives.

Even our adult children. You are we living a life of service of authenticity of humility. You know, are we praying through all of our issues that were struggling with. And like I said earlier, we also throughout know we all make mistakes and I think our children, even our adult children want to have honest conversations they want to know that were being honest. I've spent a lot of my adult life apologizing to my children know just visited dad who I struggle with issues in and I think that's open the door for me to build and say hey sons yeah I see this in your life you this is what's going to happen if you continue down this path, but with that said, we don't learn in comfort and ease. As Helen Keller would say we learn through trials and struggles. So I think a lot of times even with our adult children. We got a lot of let him experience the natural consequences of when they screw up and get themselves in trouble and I think too often, at least my generation were too quick to jump in and save our children and protect them from those consequences, and sometimes his consequences are the best teachers absolutely what you say to the person who sees their workplace as a mission for you, but maybe their overzealous and I want I want your opinion on this and they feel like they have to witness to everybody in their share the gospel with every single person in an and they come across as being kind to religious how he responded.

That was the answer to the first well I just want to scream right here this week and unfortunately we we've had. We had people like that. I was recently talking to some other business owners about this actual topic and unfortunately and this one of them is from Hong Kong so it's not not a US problem, it's a global problem, but they said oftentimes he said oftentimes in a couple other businessmen joined in but the worst employees are often the Christians tragically and I think I even have to ask him why he jumped right in and said because too often they're more concerned about witnessing their verbal witness trying to get people saved talking about Sunday school, going to a Bibles Bible study rather than doing their jobs right and that is so counter to what God calls us to do the I love the quote that we give to St. Francis of Assisi when he says preach the gospel at all times, and when necessary use words right because our integrity in our our commitment to excellence speaks way louder than any words and too often people are so cynical about religion these days that they don't want to be preached at anymore and I and I I camp out on first Thessalonians 410 through 12 when when Paul instructs your Thessalonians 2 to live your daily life in such a way that you win the respect of those around you to be quiet and work with your hands and and make your life something that's attractive that people want to listen to before before you don't even let them ask the question and I think if we live it, live often, they will ask us questions about you know our life and and then when they're asking questions that's not always the best time to share exactly Eric's asking this is been a wonderful conversation and I know that most of our listeners are involved somewhere in the workplace. Some of them are working at home but were, but we are all working so I hope this book is going to help a lot of people and I hope our listeners will get it because I think of them found it to be very very practical in terms of the workplace as our place of ministry, so thanks for being with us today. My pleasure and has been a real privilege.

Thanks for having me on what an encouragement for everyone who is looking for good work God provides that today's resource might be the encouragement you need on the job. The title again. Good work how blue-collar business can change lives.

Unities and world. It's written by Dave Maytag HAT Ajay find out more. Five love and next week will take your questions and comments about relationships, listener line, don't miss our dear Gary broadcast what way and if you have a question now one. Thank you to our connection team time Building Relationships is

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