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Embracing Uncomfortable

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman
The Truth Network Radio
June 13, 2020 8:03 am

Embracing Uncomfortable

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman

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June 13, 2020 8:03 am

​Every day we make decisions about our lives. But instead of choosing what is best, we often gravitate toward what is easiest. On the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author and educator, Dr. Deborah Gorton provides encouragement about facing your fears and pursuing your true purpose by "embracing uncomfortable." Learn more on the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

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Human beings are hardwired to seek comfort but comfort usually doesn't move us in the best direction. The good news about embracing uncomfortable today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman if were able to going back to this whole idea of time and positing and really thinking about do my actions reflect what's most important for reducing stress, discord, brokenness in our lives and embrace uncomfortable in the moment to align more with with what we truly value welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" today, author and educator Dr. Davenport, face our fears while pursuing our purpose will life was easy. I will think I with the choices we make often are made by deciding what is easier, rather than what best for you will explore that topic. As you look in the rearview of your life. Use those works with that the easiest path is often the best crew, socially visual, counseling, and particularly with married couples who were through hard times and there thinking it would just be easier to get out of here about enough of this work on this so you know sometimes it is easier to walk away than it is to do the hard thing you when they do choose to do the hard thing to learn through the difficulty men like to look back and said what I did that and looking back on my life. You know all the troubles Carolyn I have in the early years and I'm glad we didn't bail out you. I remember the time that our son came home from college and he put his right hand on my shoulder and his left tail. My wife's shoulder looked us in the face and said guys I want to thank you for staying together.

I have five friends at the University were not going home for Christmas because their parents have separated since I left home is that you guys had a hard time but I'm just glad to stay together that's got the serendipity moment did I wonder glad that you didn't run away like what appeared to be easier in the long run is not easy.

But that's just an example enough. There's one part of life with their lot of other places where the easy thing seems to be better some excited about our conversation today, let me introduce our guest, Dr. Deborah Gorton Geo RTO and she is the Gary Chapman chair of marriage, family ministry and therapy at Moody theological seminary graduate school more than 14 years, Deb has worked as a change agent for individuals, organizations, and emerging leaders helping them refine, embrace and thrive in their purpose built on the foundation of relationship which is important to this program. Her core philosophy is that collaboration and community produces radical transformation will find out about that today. Deb lives in Chicago. She is the host of the becoming well podcast we have information about that as well as our featured resource embracing uncomfortable at the website. Five love Dr. Gordon welcome to Building Relationships.

Thank you so much for having me into joy to be here.

We're delighted you're with us today. So tell us the story behind this journey that you been on toward embracing the uncomfortable.

How did this idea form in your life you know it is really a parallel process so I finished my PhD in clinical psych and make my late 20s and so I would say that my informative developing adult years in business process of working with clients and also becoming more flourishing in my own identity and so much as you shared in your work with couples I sigh in relationship people oftentimes can of default to comfort and self protection. And I did that in my own life at the part of again like I said embracing my own identity and challenging some of the fears and false identities that I had and so as I started to really step back and look at where people thrived in their purpose and values. It was a willingness to kind of humble themselves and pursue those things that were uncomfortable in order to really experience transformation. You say that is humans work were rather hardwired to choose comfort what what you think that's true. A lot of the work that I did initially and in my PhD program is looking at the brain and studying neuropsychology and so you and we look at how we make decisions and how our brain functions. I love the authors of the back at crucial conversations talk about the brain being wired for the path of least resistance, meaning without intentionally stepping into our decision-making. Our brains usually choose for us. But what's familiar and what I would argue is comfortable and so this intentionality piece that's required to make them more uncomfortable choices is critical and in out again it's Kenneth against the way were naturally wired to just choose what what what is habitual and what and what we've kind of done over a pattern of time in our lives. Think most of us would agree with that we haven't with the research just seems like it's always got a leaning toward doing the easy thing. Do you have you have role models live this this concept of embracing the uncomfortable you know and make a sound clich but when I read Scripture. To me this is the essence of Jesus's ministry.

He was so countercultural and how he met with and was in relationship with others. Whether he was seeking out kind and that the least and the lost or building community with those that that the larger culture has rejected yet. He strove to live out his values in a way that many would probably argue is was very different than the leaders and the influencers at the time and I really believe at its core.

This is what is required of us to live out our purpose and values is to say, and to willingly choose I'm going to embrace things that are uncomfortable because they're different than the average. There different than the norm. There different than what the people around me are doing, but ultimately there can bring the greatest sense of fulfillment because they are aligned with what is most important to me. Would you see that demonstrated at least in some of the lives of the medical community know the pandemic that we have been working our way through the other stepping into uncomfortable situations. Those of us who are outside looking in on them and they're doing it every day. That has to be a conscious choice on their part, absolutely. And in fact I was reading something the other day about a nurse in the medical community who just chose to step in as part of her oath tenant to help the patient without a mask and ultimately it cost her her life, and you know those things are unbelievable in terms of the self-sacrifice that is happening. I see this at educators as well. Today some of my closest friends I best friend is middle school teacher in the choices they make to take what is important to them and what you note, fulfills them and put that to the side for the sake of the students that they are caring for right now is a huge testament to embracing uncomfortable like a lot of parents of a deeper appreciation for teachers before but you're exactly right. You say that there is the myth of comfort. What did you believe about comfort earlier in that you no longer believe. I think we have a tendency to unconsciously pursue what we think is comfortable. Someone in the examples I given the book as I live in the city of Chicago and I made an oath tenant based on something my dad encourage me to do to walk to work every day for a year and I made this commitment to myself in the end of July and so you know is beautiful weather was sunny and and I wasn't really thinking about what happens in Chicago in January and February and March and as the months dragged on and as the unit as sunlight got fewer and fewer in the weather. Temperatures dropped I started thinking every morning when my alarm went off.

What on earth to hear. And you know I easily could see that on those days of those dark cold days in January when my alarm went off. It was more comfortable in the moment to hit snooze and to stay in the warmth of my bed and get a couple extra minutes of sleep, then make the sacrifice to get up and walk, but I did it and the reason why was at the end of that year, and I still like to work everyday. By the way, the end of that year, I knew that I was more comfortable with the commitment and follow-through to myself than the momentary discomfort the embracing up uncomfortable that it took on those cold dark days to get out of bed and stay true to my word that's powerful thing. Many people like New Year's resolutions every year something they're going to do this year so many over the last six weeks and then go back to being comfortable with Sen. when you do follow-through. There's a there's a physical and emotional reward right yeah and I think you know when it comes to Canada core of the book is talking about how this is critical to living out your values and purpose I find especially when I'm working with clients is so much of that incongruence and that internal discord they feel is because the choices that they're making are giving them momentary comfort but deep down they know they don't align with what's most important to them talk to Gordon as you were talking in that last segment is thinking about the macro uncomfortable or comfort that were looking for the micro and IE have been the last few weeks seen this online as I am on social media and somebody will say something about something. It could be political, cultural, it could be theological, and immediately what I'll do in my brain is a will that person believes this about that and so I know how to push that aside, that person is aligning themselves with this political party or this and what I what I gravitate toward is not looking at what about thinking through what they've said or shared. I'm trying to fit them into some category sought to think about it. It makes beef feel more comfortable to be able to pigeonhole them is that one of the micro of comfort levels that we look for is a great example and end something that is very common right we we really struggle with how to stay in relationship or be in relationship with people we disagree with.

In this day and age, and I would say one we've really lost the art of listening to understand and really seeking. What is the motivation behind what this person is communicating and instead, we tend to come at things with this posture of how do I defend my own position because we feel attacked and you know again I come back to this reality that that requires a lot of humility and that's hard. Edit one of the things I talk about in the book is radical acceptance and I think he's got this misunderstanding that radical acceptance or even validation is agreement and it's not, it simply saying I hear you I see you, and when were able to do that when were able to really listen to understand and hear the motivation behind why somebody is communicating something we get to the core of who they really are and I think that also opens up the the opportunity for them tenant to give us that in return gear you talk a lot about this with relationship with children and how if you get stuck on you know my son or my daughters. Listening to this music and I don't like it, rather you've talked about moving into that world. Tell me more about why you like that song rather than the judgment and you careless about anymore. You're asking questions and listening because I think we just come down and condemn the child in the office itself and as a teenager. Then they feel rejected. But will we enter into their world and ask questions about the you know why they like this or what's the message of that, they enjoy that and then you know they say we respect them as a person and we keep that emotional bond between the parent and the teenager were talking about embracing the uncomfortable but delirious.

This is comfort. Always a bad thing. I love the comfort of my bet on those cold days. I say it's a bad thing. I think it comes down to you know and and this is another question in order to talk about.

But what are our values and what are our core values and are we in ICR values as what kind of guides and directs our everyday decision-making. I value food and I value delicious food. I live in probably one of the most amazing food cities in the world. Chicago is is re-known for its restaurants and its cuisine. I also value health and probably more so on a core value level really see the responsibility of stewarding my body to the glory of God. And so when I make the decisions and by all means, I'm not saying I do this perfectly FHA but when I make the decision of what I'm going to eat food and and and satisfying the hunger is value to me that the core value of stewarding my body is the decision to which I accept that lens through and sits in a kind of just taking back to the question of comfort and and whether or not it's good or bad. If if I value Sabbath and rest.

Then, on some level the comfort of a nap or a warm beach or in a vacation actually represents a core value. That's why I'm looking forward to going to the beach and my whole family. All of the other hand, is discomfort. Always a good thing, and if no desserts not to embrace discomfort. Yeah, I think when it comes down to is in a kind of discerning again what our motivation is and I think unfortunately we can oftentimes feel like we need to put ourselves in uncomfortable situations or pursue discomfort at the loss of our own identity and value you know, I see people that kind of taking the approach of feeling like I need to sacrifice myself.

My core worth the micro identity for this other person, whether it's because they've been in an unhealthy relationship.

Perhaps it's it's marred by domestic violence or other things that have really could've Rob somebody's core identity and self-worth from them, and yet they've created this false narrative around but this is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I'm called to do or this is the only way that you know I'm going to feel love sell in the blank.

It's a false sense of identity and I think in those situations, you really have to step back and say what's motivating are driving this what about this is healthy or unhealthy, and at its core. What about this is actually a misrepresentation of who I am as a person created in the image of God, of the same two integers pulled into the one they committed themselves that they're not going to get on drugs but then the peer group could get pulled in. To that end up making a decision that's not who they are, know that they made the decision not to walk that road, but the yield to to the port peer pressures so you talked about value, valuing things and you'll also use that word core value what's the difference between values and in Corbett's yeah I think going back to this idea that that our everyday decision-making involves things that we value and when we make those decisions without really consciously thinking about the why or the left behind them. That's why think they can actually rub up against our core values to use an example, I might value walking to work. I do value walking work that's important to me and today as I came into the street.

It's been a while since I been outside have been quarantined from the pandemic and I could say I value walking to work, but I'm running late, hadn't planned my time accordingly and so if if I were just focused on that value is walking to work I might actually miss a greater value maybe not necessary. Micro value but kind of hierarchical value of actually micro values relationship and respecting relationship and to me that's following through on a commitment and showing up on time.

So if I look at my decision of how to get to work and I sifted to the core value of prioritizing relationships and respecting those I've made a commitment to I'm going to say well it's important for me to walk to work. I didn't create enough time and space to be able to do that sunset I'm gonna ride my bike or jump in a new bar or or figure out another way that can get me there more quickly so you can coming back to this idea that our values guide our decisions every day. They motivate us, but it's the core value that we sift are our values through that really aligns with what's most important to us. Do you have like a list of core values you should your core values relationships you have a list of core values for yourself and do you encourage others to do the ideal. Yeah, I have five core values that I got written in various places around my apartment and on my smart phone so that that I'm reminded of those every day and happy to share that as I also find that when I do other people immediately kind of tight embrace says is there values which is not a bad thing, but I want people to feel encouraged to to really tap into who they are and what's most important to them. I also in in the book that I that I wrote have just a list of samples of core values that I've collected from different places.

The Internet conversations with people and of my own qualitative unofficial study. Over the years of working with clients and I do think it's really important that we take the time to figure out what those core values are what you give us to three of your sister so folks get a flavor of it. Absolutely.

So my number one value is Jesus that's taken and emulate everything that he and models for us, which I guess you could say kind of encapsulates every value that my second is relationship. My third is wisdom. My fourth is authenticity will keep my fat as a surprise, although it is in the book to the good cooks for good that some of our losers mobile are not familiar with the concept of core values like Havel but they don't little think of them as core values there there there, go there and put them bring it to the front burner really thinking about it think is a good exercise yeah exactly. It's it's usually a question and asking clients and I'm amazed you hit the nail on the head.

We all know we have values that we rarely take the time to discern and label what they are what's the difference between comfort and contentment in what is it better so I think contentment is actually more of a discipline it's it's a choice to be at peace and have gratitude for where were at. And I do think it's also an emotional experience, but it's one that comes from the discipline of of gratitude and acknowledging what's in front of us comfort. On the other hand I think is is a state of mind that we seek. And again, oftentimes unconsciously because we really don't like the emotions that push against comfort.

We don't want to feel anxious. We don't want to feel uncertain. We don't want to feel dismissed or discouraged. I do think often times where comfort gets into an unhealthy place. Is that where avoiding taking calculated or healthy risks Ted to develop and grow ourselves, whereas I can be content in all situations. If I practice the discipline of recognizing what I have and being grateful for that. What Paul was talking about when they should've learned to be content with much or with little and railroaded jail yeah yeah this go to that state of business that your your listing in God. It really is and I and I also think it it doesn't mean that it's absent of other emotions. I think a lot of times people feel like they're failing it contentment if they also feel disappointed, frustrated, discouraged, anxious right. They think I'm not content. Now I don't think that that Bible says a word that we even experience emotions in a silo and I think we can practice that state of mind or that discipline of contentment while also encountering other emotions. I think it's almost important here.gratitude to define what comfort means because I have a list or push back on me when I said we made comfort, our God, you know that God is supposed to make me all comfortable in my life and the listener responded and said but I want God to comfort me. He is my comfort and I think she was using a different definition of comfort that I was can you unpack that. Yeah, my definition how I would look at comfort is trying to find security in uncertainty, trying to find that that's that sense of certainty in order to find security so if we use that definition in relation to God.

It absolutely makes sense right because in the midst of uncertainty, we know God is our constant so we can find comfort and rest in that. And of course I think of you know the Psalms of of the pictures that God creates is taking care of us of leading us besides the still waters and filling our cabin and protecting us from our enemies. So I do think in that sense. But then, what are the other things that were actually putting our comfort trying to put our comfort in where we trying to seek certainty in an uncertain world that doesn't promise that an insecurity in things that were not called to seek security in, and that in fact won't actually fulfill us this week. I was reading some of Oswald Chambers wrote most were astonished and thinking about the situation that many people billion over the last several months with the pandemic and all of that and it was slavishly made was trust God and do the next thing is pretty good advice in the situation when we approach certain things aren't always what we would like for them to be.

We have our comfort in that sense in God and then do the next learning if you got four kids at home, but excluding my be getting lunch for our dear little Beth at night.

This is a very interesting topic comfort, contentment, the coat of cousins or her sisters or brothers seldomly like yeah you know I think they really, really do kind of parallel one another and again I think it comes back to this idea of a sense of security right where we placing our security in which going back to how you opened up our conversation today looking at this in relationship to Austin.

I think I see couples that I work with place. Their sense of security in their spouse and I'm not saying it's it's it it's a bad thing that's wrong is actually healthy to have conversations around you, like, how are we stewarding our finances and what are our priorities in terms of putting a roof over our head in caring for our kids and putting food on the table. Those are those are important things but when the essence of your security lies in that which we see the truth that when that security is ripped away then were getting into that place is.

I've placed false comfort.

I've placed my expectations for comfort in things that are not guaranteed or promised and actually don't align with what's most important to me and I find that when I do have this conversation around the core values of people I've yet to meet somebody whose core values are selfishly motivated all about themselves. There there often times much more externally focused.

Gordon your book go.

They were discussing today embracing the uncomfortable you discussed socially obstacles to talk about justification, minimization will walk us through these. How do we we work through these things and come out the right place. I affectionately call these the three haters to change and you know see these absolutely in the lives of my clients and my own my own life that often times what prevents us from really experiencing deep transformation is one of these, or even a combination of all three of these justification, minimization and denial.

Many use just my simple example of walking to work since it since it applies here, but I think you can really broaden this to most of what motivates our difficulty in in in in moving forward. So let's just say that my core value is as health and wellness, and that's why I made the commitment to walk to work every day and so that's that. The decision that I sift my morning routine through and you know it say that I get up in the morning or at my alarm goes off and it's cold, it's dark and I don't want to get out of bed. You know, I might actually start justifying my behavior to support my decision to stay put, I might say what's called out. I've gotten up every day before this. What's one in one days not canary me. I'm I've been so good.

I didn't know was going to be this cold. I didn't really think this through, is not that big of Gary. All of these reasons, why not actually choosing the uncomfortable choice. I might try to minimize the decision right that you know it's really like the grand scheme of my decisions for the day. This one isn't a big line or you know nobody really cares if I make the commitment to follow through on what I said I was going to do it doesn't affect anybody else I can to minimize the impact of that night. Tennessee, justification, minimization, his cousin, so to speak.

Denial is I never made this decision in the first really mean I doesn't doesn't really impact me at all like when it comes down to it, this isn't really a part of my value system, or it really kind of acknowledgment, refusing to acknowledge the impact of my own decision-making on my life and the lives of others. So, if we follow those thoughts were far more likely to do so not to stick with what we commit ourselves to exactly could see that this person Chicago Co. wanted to wish you could say that are really soils will be the yeah yeah remember my days as a student at Moody Bible Institute. In those cold winds would come off of Lake Michigan. As I was walking from Lawson YMCA which is where Moody had rented a floor so most freshman students were over there and it was cold that are called about the whole concept of just don't have time to talk about the escape that excuse and how it may get us off track from her values.

Yeah I'm I wrestle a lot of feathers with this one, including my own.

It's funny when I went into it to pitch the concept of the spec to the publishers. I was thinking you know it's the best way to get this message across. And I thought make them uncomfortable and so I had everyone write down what is one thing in your life that you would like to transform that you really struggled with and so everybody wrote that down and then I said okay and I want you to write down all of the barriers standing in your way. All of the things that has prevented you from from doing this is a write that down and then I said now I want you to cross off everything on your list. That's an impossibility. So I said Nina as an example, let's say that you have made a commitment to enhance communication with your spouse and an example of an impossibility would be that your spouse is moved to the middle of Antarctica cut off all communication and you have absolutely no possible way of talking with them right now that's an impossibility. Here's the catch. If you wrote down time as a barrier to accomplishing your goal or experiencing transformation that is not an impossibility. Think a lot of really really cyanide glances because the reality is, and I think you and you know this. I know this is God all of a sudden just you know created a different set of time factors in our lives. I was in a say snapped his fingers. I don't believe that God has fingers that take to create a picture and we Allison that a 36 hour day instead of a 24 hour day.

You know, and I know that in this short amount of time people would all of a sudden still be saying there's just not enough time in the day and so I have this this belief is really important to me and that is every decision we make involves a loss and we function from trying to avoid losses that losses are inevitable and so when it comes to time in order to make those decisions in order to create space to think about what motivates our decisions before we even make that we have to carve out time in our day and our week in our month to really reflect on what we've chosen to do what were choosing to do and to say this is gonna take a sacrifice that the skin to take a loss and so is the loss of time, it can require saying no to people in your life. No tick to commitments and its also probably can involve the discomfort of letting somebody down what comes to mind when you say that is first to talk with people about spiritual growth also readily so all of them will get closer to God won't go relationship with God to be more meaningful and so talk about a daily sit down time with God which are going to read a chapter in the Bible and ask God to show you anything you need to be knowing that chapter and have a little conversation with God back and forth every day and in so many people so I still have conflict over pump will you know is you say maybe you will have to give up a TV program 30 minute slot on the TV program or study, 30 minutes off of Facebook or something you know. But if if your relation with God is more important than what you might pick up on Facebook and 30 minutes overloads the most votes most like the decision right.

Yeah, absolutely. And it may be, and again here we go. It's an uncomfortable line, we have to acknowledge and validate that that is critical and for me it sometimes saying no to somebody who's reached out to me and wants to pick my brain about something you know whether it's how I wrote a book or how I navigate a relationship and there are times where as much as it pains me because my relationship with God.

My relationship with core people in my life because doing a good job with the things that God has placed in my hands to steward well now is important is is valuable to me. There will be times where I tell others know respectfully and with care and dignity and recognize that they also have the right to feel upset with me by me paste placing that boundary doesn't mean that just because it might upset them that the choice in my mind needs to be to say yes if that makes sense. You absolutely you mentioned earlier the word validation to talk about validating people's faults and expressions and so forth. Does this impact our ability to embrace the uncomfortable in life, you know, I think validation is something we've really we really lost the art of dealing both for ourselves and for others, and you know I'm I'm I've come to in the last couple years really see the importance and the necessity of the practice of lament really really morning and grieving for the losses in my own life but especially the losses in others and I think in and greater larger societal sense because the hat says your experience is important and valid and it's the essence of who you are who you are as a person and what you encounter is important no matter what it is and somewhere along the way.

We've mistaken validation for agreement and say think we fear validating people's experiences because they'll either walk away thinking we we agree with them or that by validating your experience and minimizing my own, and neither of those are true, but I think this this this real essence of being seen and heard and acknowledged for what you're going through what you've experienced and where you're at today is really critical before any steps towards transformation can happen.

So if you are talking with a friend or acquaintance and they share with you struggled with her going through may be their spouses walked out on the lips there sharing this with you. You have been through that experience.

What how does validation soil to that person expressed a person. It's really looking for, and listening for the underlying emotion so I would say I hate that has got to be one of the most painful isolating and lonely experiences. I can only imagine how that has challenged your your view of relationships. Your experience of yourself and and just the grief. And though the sadness that you are going through right now it hurts my heart alongside you to know that that that you have experienced this that you have been treated this way and that you're having to navigate this right now. But even if they express anger like the show so angry at humor angry at her I would validate that well as well. You know I think this to me is one of my favorite things about the book of Ruth. When you see Naomi return home with with Ruth and her community of women come out to meet her and she says you know, I know we were so glad to see and she's like you meet them coming Naomi coming Mara because God has dealt bitterly with me and that we don't get a picture of what happens after, but in my mind, those women say okay will call you Mara, and not because they they you know they are necessarily agreeing God has dealt bitterly with you, but because they know she's grieving and she's angry and she's hurt a friend just recently older lady was outside working with some flowers and she photo the pleasure of her face from Summit sidewalk and a little later she said your daughter.

Why did God do this to me know if I'm going to be one of elevated her feelings, but wouldn't preach to write about. So you know only a forward in your shoes probably feel the same way right in the dozen we were agreeing with her, but we are well of the fact that she could have that fault. Yeah and you know in my position. I don't know why there so I don't even pretend that I know I I can rest in the in the contentment. So as we referred to earlier as as God being an all-powerful and all-knowing and all present God, knowing he has a plan for every part of our lives that I don't know why this happened so I'm not even get a pretend guests as we try to talk people out of their feelings help them out of their attitudes, but they are really are and if we were they'll have their personality and soul things as loosely it would be just so. You're so good is because were uncomfortable with that. We are uncomfortable a lot of times.

And you know ductwork know how much I love Scripture, but we can use Scripture to distance ourselves from somebody was hurting by using it to salve something that it's not our job to set have you know we we can can use Scripture to just put a Band-Aid on something that is an open wound sound trail and and you're absolutely right. Right. This whole process is so cyclical, we avoid validating and sitting with others and their pain because their pain is too uncomfortable for us.

We can't embrace the discomfort of it and you're actually right.

We use Scripture out of that context, and again this is where I see the entire book of Lamentations is a call for Israel to mourn the losses that they've encountered so that when they step into the fullness of God's gift to them. They can they can embrace that but in that moment, it is important and critical to acknowledge the hurt and the grief and the pain and the utter devastation of what they've encountered before the break we were talking about validating people's thoughts and feelings and you distinguish between validating and radical acceptance of things explained the difference between those two share at the very basic level, radical acceptance deals with our circumstances and as you mentioned validation deals with our emotions and so radical acceptance is saying I am.

This is where I'm at right now it's not projecting into the future. It's not saying this is how things are always going to be our things are never going to change or or or being stuck in the past that if only this had never happened to me or why did this happen to have to happen to me.

But the key thing about that past peace is that's where the validation comes in. So if we do if we tell somebody again, going back to those minimization justification and denial of the passes in the past.

You can't worry about that. It's not that big of a deal. It's incredibly invalidating for somebody who's gone through a history of trauma or loss or broken relationships, because those do impact where you are today and so that's where that validation is critical that had to be so painful that had to be so impactful on your life and it absolutely makes sense to me why you're struggling in this way today based on that. That's the validation piece. The radical acceptance is and here's where you're at, without judgment.

This is where I'm at and we have to be able to acknowledge that in order to then determine where we want to go. We are where we are. We are when we are using is it's not resignation.

That's the thing too is busy ICU people go well, it is what it is right. Okay it is but it doesn't have to always be this way the book you talk about incongruence defunded for us and tell us how it can sometimes recover and are relationships. Incongruence is one of the largest causes of stress in our life and and this concept that I referred to in the book is that internal incongruence of our actions, not aligning with our thoughts are our emotions or our values, and eight referred to an old psych social psychology experiment where they actually paid people into groups of people that they'd had to do a very mundane task and one group when the task was done. They paid them a dollar and the other group. They paid them $20 and they asked them to rate how much they enjoyed the task and the experimenters expected that the people who got the 20 bucks would say I wasn't that bad. You know like I can handle it. It wasn't too boring actually kind of enjoyed it and they didn't they actually rated it way worse than the people that got paid a dollar and the idea behind that was his people who have paid a dollar in their mind.

There was so much incongruence right I wouldn't sit and do something so mundane and so on. Unenjoyable for just a buck.

So actually must've been more enjoyable than I thought it was were constantly trying to align our actions with our internal thoughts, behaviors and values, and we don't again it causes the sense of stress this this reactivity internally and so if were able to going back to this whole idea of time and pausing and really thinking about do my actions reflect what's most important to me were reducing stress, discord, brokenness in our lives when we can embrace uncomfortable in the moment to align more with with what we truly value in what ways can the community for the Christian framework of the church will the community what ways can communities support you as you embrace the uncomfortable things in life wouldn't go so far as to say we can't do this, absent of community and for a number of reasons. One accountability community you know is is is the people surrounding you.

And, and, like Moses holding your arms up in battle and solicit difficult practice. It's not easy and it's gonna require those people in your life that you trust that you can be vulnerable with working to validate that key that key piece validate how difficult this is the emotional experience that you've had and are having in some of the choices that you're making and that you know a big thing too is often times the circumstances that were radically accepting aren't necessarily solely a result of our own choices. We experience the consequences of other people's choices and we can call it generational sin every day and so radically accepting our circumstances when there based on on the decisions of others that are unhealthy and of cause damage in our lives is is really difficult and so having a community around you that can really support and encourage and validate this experience is important.

The other thing I would say is what your community looks like is key. Having a diverse body of thinkers who come from different ages and different walks of life is also critical because we can get fixated on one solution to a problem or one way of approaching a task that diverse voice speaking into our lives can really I think challenge us to think in a way that puts our values into practice for the greater good of community we were nobody's to live alone, go to the dignity really areas those who may never want us to be married but we all need people sooner lives limited social your personal question, what difference does embracing uncomfortable blade in your own life you know at the end of every day.

When I look back on the choices that I made while it's not always perfect.

A great majority of the time I can say when I've chosen to the embrace uncomfortable. I have lived according to what I value most, and I sent one of my core values is authenticity. So to be able to go to bed at night and to say to God. I believe today that most of my choices aligned with who you created me to be placing a higher value on your creation than any of my own self-motivated desires and decisions that I is just incredibly invalidating in my own life.

Deep deep satisfaction we seek to live life like that. Dr. Gordon somebody is listing today who has this question my spouse has just told me they don't love me anymore. They want out of the marriage there so frustrated this they are so angry at me for whatever reason and I am sitting here in this uncomfortable place of Mel knowing something that has just surprised me how to why use what you're talking about here. Otherwise embrace uncomfortable in my situation I would say the first thing is to stop in to ask both yourself and to consider your spouse.

What are the emotions at play here. So I'm hearing hurt I'm hearing anger.

I can only imagine that this person is also encountering those same emotions and outside of the circumstances.

Those emotions are incredibly valid and so to say okay how can I first and foremost acknowledge those feelings for what they are, how they're impacting my spouse and how they are impacting me and then once I'm able to do that I may take a long time that might take more than a couple hours. I might take a couple days a couple weeks and might need to involve other people close friends wise counsel pastor a mental health provider and then out of that, then let's begin to then look at the truth of our circumstances, so it's that first piece of really looking at what were dealing with radically accepting right here in the moment these emotions that are involved and then out of that what we value most, and what is it can it take to get us to that point and what am I willing to do to get there yet because modes of first response could be being defensive and saying bold you've never told me that before in this verse on knowing your wife you held this in so long or all of those things rather than while I have new information here that I didn't know. Thank you for sharing that with me. What I hear you saying is, those types of yeah that's yeah that's a really loaded question. But you're right because in the defensive response. What were doing is were not were not hearing but also when we when we give the responsive of what you just said wow that's new information.

I wasn't aware of this. I can imagine that's truly hurtful what I think happened is we, in our mind, think that that's not what happened. That's not like they're misrepresenting the truth and they're not acknowledging my experience and it's important to get to that at some point, but it still doesn't negate the feelings, the other person is experiencing as well as your own feelings and it is a very humble process to acknowledge that in the key is here again is not agreement it suggest validation and it really does bring us into a more intimate relationship with one another. We enhance the probability of at least being seen and heard. Well, thanks for being with us today. Thanks for the term of energy and effort you put into writing this book because I do think it's going to help some people challenging people to embrace.

Thanks so much for having me Deb Gorton is been with us to the resource. Five love is the book embracing uncomfortable facing your fears while pursuing our purpose again. Five love how to find the courage to fight for your children. The former lead singer at Sanctus real Hamlet will join us. Thank you to our production team today and Janice taught building related to with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production radio in association with Moody publishers a ministry at Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening

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