Resolve Conflict With Adult Children | Dr. Kathy Koch

Across Africa, millions of Christians are suffering a Bible famine. They hunger for God's Word, but there simply aren't enough Bibles. Today, Timothy Project is close to launching Africa's first Bible web press. To help complete this project, visit timothyproject.info. We are parents, but we don't parent as a verb unless we're invited to do so.

So, what do we do? We guide, coach, cheer, mentor, counsel, help. We're present, and you keep your mouth shut and you listen and you pray. And it's hard. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" , and if you're having conflict with an adult child, author and speaker Dr. Kathy Cook wants to come alongside with some encouragement today. If you go to our website, buildingrelationships.us, you'll see Dr. Cook's book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children: Strategies and Conversations That Work. Just go to buildingrelationships.

U.S. Gary, when we open the listener line for questions from parents, this is right at the top, isn't it? It is, Chris, and I've seen a lot in my office as well. You know, just the conflicts between parents and their adult children, and it involves all sorts of things.

So, I am really excited about our conversation today and talking with Doctor Cook about her book on that topic. If you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see our featured resource: resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children. Dr. Kathy Cook is founder and president of Celebrate Kids Incorporated. She's written several best-selling parent-child enrichment books, such as Screens and Teens, Eight Great Smarts, and Resilient Kids, among others.

Sharon, a PhD in reading and educational psychology from Purdue University, find out more about her and a resource at. BuildingRelationships.us.

Well, Dr. Cook, welcome back to Building Relationships. Thank you so much, Dr. Chapman. It's great to be here.

Your ministry is dedicated to helping children and the parents who love them become who they were uniquely created to be. But this resource is a little different. Why did you want to tackle this topic? Yeah, thanks for asking that question, Gary. Part of it is what I've seen in culture, which is what you know.

You and Chris have seen just how many parents are struggling with decisions adult children are making. How many adult children I've spoken with who are frustrated with their parents and disrespect and other issues. And so, I wondered if I could speak into it. You know, I've written for twenty one years, and I know like you're a prolific author.

So impressive what the Lord has given you to do.

So I've been an author for twenty one years, which means that my audience. Has grown up, so the people who started following me when they had young children now still follow me and have older people. And you know what? I come from a multi generational, beautiful family. I grew up kitty corner from my grandparents, and my dad cut a hole in the fence, and my brother and I could walk, you know, back and forth.

I was about four blocks from my other grandparents. I went to church with aunts and uncles. I paid. I went to school with my cousins. I come from a multi generational, solid family, and I know it matters.

God ordained the family. And he's grieving over this, and enough people had approached me to say, "You know, Kathy, I think that you have something to say here." And I tackled it, and I'm so grateful for people like you who allow me to be influential on on your show.

So thank you for your support. Do you think that there's more of a problem with this situation, adult children, today than in previous generations? You know, I do, although. I wonder if we well, like we obviously know more about it now because of social media, right? And we have these twenty four hour a day, quote unquote, news stations that tell us about all the brokenness that's in the world.

So, you know, I do think that there's been family dysfunction since you know Cain and Abel, if you will. Um, so it's not it's not surprising. But is it is it more frequently? I think so. I don't think it's as frequent as the media suggests, though.

So you know, people who are listening and they have good relationships with their, uh. Family, like praise God. Don't be looking for trouble. Don't be thinking that you know you probably have some trouble under the mat that you're not aware of. That might not be true.

You actually might have a beautiful, really healthy give and take, supportive family.

So yes, it's there, but I don't think it's as big as the media. Yeah, yeah. Are there different levels of fractured relationships between parents and adult children? I do think so. I've met people who have totally cut off all contact, and they mean it, and they have good reasons for doing that, and they're very clear on that.

And then there are others who will have maybe a boundary. You know, you can text and call, but don't stop over. Or there'll be people who, you know, holiday only, kind of like the the church attenders who go only on the holiday. There's family people who only go on the holiday, if you will. And so all kinds of changes.

There are some where the parents cut it off, and there are some where the adults. Children cut it off. There are sometimes where the grandchildren are the ones who are making decisions because of the way that they feel about things.

So, I think it is different, and I and again it makes it complex, right? But it's all relational. It's all your expertise. Yeah.

Well, you say that parents will always be parents. That's their noun. But the problem comes when we get the nouns and the verbs mixed up. Can you explain that? Yes, this is actually chapter one.

Like I started in this very bold place, where parent will always be a noun, child will always be the noun of a child, but we don't parent as a verb, adult children, unless we're asked to. Adult children. One of the things they told me over and over again was how much disrespect they feel from parents who are still trying to parent them. When the adult child believes that he or she doesn't need to be parented, now the parent might be looking and go, "No, you are, you're still a work in progress as to like you need help," but you know that adult child is thinking, "No, you know, I'm 18 or I'm 21 or I'm 23 and married, and you know, you need you need to leave me alone." So we are parents, but we don't parent as a verb unless we're invited to do so.

So what do we do? We guide. Coach, cheer, mentor, counsel, help—we're we're available, we're present, and we have insight because we're wise. There's wisdom in this older generation. You guys have lived a long life, and it's killing you to not share something with one of your kids or in-laws that you think is really relevant.

But you wait, and you have an insight, and maybe you say, "Hey, I've I've got something that might be relevant. Let me know if you'd like me to share it." And if they say not yet, you you honor that, and you keep your mouth shut, and you listen, and you pray, and it's hard. I think that is part of the the power of this book, Doctor Kathy, and that is not that it's going to solve all your problems. It's not the bibbidi bobbidi boo, you know, to to wave over the wand of your relationships with your adult kids or the children, adult children waving it over their parents to get them to understand. What I think the power is is that the person who feels like they're all alone, they're the only one in.

The world with this situation, they are not alone. When they read what you've written here, what do you think? Oh, thanks for saying that. Right? You know, the devil wants us to isolate, and it's hard.

Like some of some of the people listening today, they haven't been able to tell, you know, their own, you know, maybe brother or sister or their parents, if their parents are still alive, that they've got an adult child who's choosing to separate. Like it's awkward. It feels embarrassing. It feels like there's shame and blame, and and maybe we don't tell a life group or a Sunday school class or a prayer circle. And we do have to be careful there.

Adult children have told me that they feel. Like prayer time is gossip time, so we have to be really careful who we share with. But we certainly should not be living this out alone. And so, again, thanks for having me on the show. I pray that we make a difference today to just bring this to light.

Kathy, let's address the topic Chris talked about earlier, and that is the adult child's perspective. What's going through the mind of the son or daughter who feel the need to get some distance between themselves and their parents? Yeah, appreciate you asking that. You know what they want to grow up. They want to mature.

They and and maybe we should say finally, like some of you know some of these adult children we've raised have maybe been you know lazy, disrespectful for a season, hard to reach or whatever. But now they're realizing they have a need to mature, a need to grow up, and they need respect. It's easier. Here's the thing. I think for some of them, Dr.

Chapman, it's easier for them to separate from their parents than. And to feel like they've disappointed their parents daily, the pressure that they're feeling.

So many of our adult children feel like they've been performing for their parents. I actually address in chapter one of my book the very dangerous reality that some parents are idolizing their children and grandchildren, which you know we're created to worship. We're supposed to worship God, but there are parents who worship their children, and what happens? That means that you know if a child has a good day, they have a good day, and if their child has a bad day, they have a bad day. And some of our adult children have felt that pressure for years, and they've told me, "I'd rather cut off all connection to my parents than to stay in relationship and only hear what I've done wrong, or believe that I continue to disappoint my dad and the choices that I'm making." So it's it's very awkward, but I think that's some of what's going on.

Yeah.

Do you think that moms or dads tend to do this more often? Or, or is it equal? Yeah, I'd be interested in what you think of that in your work. I think moms, moms tend to be more emotionally invested with their kids of all ages. They often Define themselves as mom.

They talk about their mom role. They, you know, live through their children's successes. And and I mean, praise God for invested moms. I'm not saying they shouldn't be that, but I think often it's the heartache of the mom. The mom probably has had more dreams about rocking the grandbaby, and going out for coffee with the daughter or the daughter-in-law as their friends as adults.

They've probably dreamt those dreams more than the dads have. But the dads. Are hurt too, and the dads sometimes the dads they've been the ones that have been helpers, right? Like they've changed the oil in their daughter's car, or they've taught a son how to, you know, change a tire. Those are classic stereotypes.

But the dad has sometimes been more involved in some practical things, even you know, financial literacy or advice about which apartment to sign a lease for.

So I think sometimes the dad misses that role of support when it comes to practical things. Help the mom often misses just that heart-to-heart kind of conversations. It's hard. Yeah, yeah. That whole thing of criticism or pushing a child.

I'll never forget the young man who came to me. He had just finished med school. And he said to me, "I'm not going to do a residency because I've never wanted to be a doctor. My father pushed me to be a doctor, and I felt exactly like you just felt. Yes, yes, man.

And I'm sure his father meant well, you know, and he wanted to see his son succeed, and he thought being a doctor was you know the road for that. But it was not his son's desire at all. And so, you know, obviously that's a fractured relationship after that." You know, it's interesting. If I can just interject, I think what you just pointed out is really important. Parents will often look at me like, like, where did this come from?

Like I thought, our relationship was perfect.

So they're reinventing the past now. Children have also reinvented the past. Often, they have a negative script. Parents are also doing that, though. Parents are like, "We've always gotten along, just great." Like, what's the problem?

That's not true. There, there were conflicts when their kids were seventeen and eighteen years old. They're just choosing not to remember that. Or this kind of example, where the child felt, in order to please the dad, to be loved by the dad, the child had to do what dad wanted him to do. The dad didn't realize that that was going on.

Never really intended that, at a at a real level of understanding. But I think it's good for us to look back and wonder, okay, wait, are there some things we're responsible for that have caused our children to doubt the kind of love that we have for them? Let's own that. Let's apologize if we need to, and let's see if we can, you know, repair something that truly is broken. I think.

I mean, I wrote chapter two is really hard. Chapter two is about you know your responsibility. I've had people say they wanted to skip the chapter, but they knew they couldn't because it's chapter two, like on purpose. Yeah, yeah. I'm assuming that when there are conflicts with adult children, that moms and dads often handle that conflict in a different way.

Have you found that true? And if so, what would be some of those differences? Oh, the mom can be more demanding and more emotionally whining. I've I've seen this happen, and this is what some adult children have told me that the mom has a harder time, you know, not texting or not calling, or you know, the mom you know drops off cookies even though she was told not to. As an example, I think dads might have an easier time of putting it into a compartment and locking it away, and just realizing, hey, you know that I was a dad and I loved being a dad.

I'm still a dad. That's still my noun, but at least for this season, I'm I'm not going to invest. I'm not going to push. I think, I think based on what I've seen, moms have more of a tendency to push, and dads have an easier time maybe letting go, or maybe they look like they're letting go, and they're more private with their pain. Yeah, yeah.

What about when adult children have children? What are the dynamics that come into play there? What are what are some of the common challenges for parents when that happens? It's so hard, right? If the if the children are not raising the grandchildren the way that you want them raised, it's so hard.

And so, like, you just need to be quiet. Like, if you're the grandparent, you know, you're not the parent. Like write that down. Like you know, when you get out of your, you know, you're stopping by the house. You've been invited for dinner, or it's a holiday.

You need to, you need to repeat ten times in the car. I am not the parent. I am not the parent. I get to be the grandparent. And you know, it's it's some of that is none of your business.

And this is where, oh, this is hard. But you know what? Different is different. Different isn't always bad.

So you know your kids might let your kids eat pizza. You never did. You might let your your your kids might let the grandkids you know stay up late and have a have a movie night, and you think that's terrible. Why is it terrible? Just because you didn't do it doesn't make it wrong or bad, especially if it's not a school night and the movie is healthy, etc., etc.

So I think I think grandparents need to be quiet. Grandparents need to point out what's going well. To to affirm your children and your the you know the the the the spouses of your children, affirm them, and say, Hey, man, Betts, you look so joyful. I you must be, like you must be her security. Look at how she trusts you, man.

That inspires me. Or you know, let your son and daughter-in-law know that you've noticed that your kids are you know content and secure. Or I don't know, they they go to bed easily without whining. Like compliment your kids for that. I think we need to look at what's good.

I think we observe and we ask questions. You know, why? Help me understand why you've gone organic only. I know it. There's this whole section in the grocery store now, and I've never taken the time to figure it out.

Why are you a believer in organic only? Like ask the question. Before we assume that they're doing something that's wrong, I could go on and on with that. It's it's you just have to keep you have to keep your mouth shut at times because some of it isn't your business, and I really mean that. Yeah, I think another thing I run into, not necessarily with with the grandchildren, but a couple who marries.

And they live in the same town with their parents, and the parents just drop in without letting them know when they're coming. And I remember this one young man who said, one night, for example, he, my wife and I decided we're gonna have a really nice romantic night together. Uh oh! Just about before we just barely getting off ground, and the the doorbell rings, and that's my mom and dad. You know.

Yeah.

So you know, treating them like we would treat other people to call and see if this will be a good time to come over. It would be certainly a wise thing to do, right? Oh, that's exactly right because we don't do that to friends. I can't. I think it's extremely rare that we would drop by on friends without letting them know and asking if this is a convenient time.

So no, this is what adult children—they feel disrespected. They feel like we don't understand that they have a life. You know, some some adult kids have said to me, you know, Dr. Kathy, I don't want them to be in my business. I want them to be aware of my business, but not in my business.

But when they stop by without asking if it's a good time, it's just it's just pushy, and it's just it just doesn't make us feel safe with them.

So it's hard. But again, we've got to consider that. They have a life, and and I'm going to say something pretty bold here, Dr. Chapman, and that is that I don't know about you, but I see those social media posts about little kids, and the and the mom is like, "Stop growing up." And I'm just screaming at my at my device. Did not did you not know this would happen?

Like, did you not realize that they were going to grow up, and you can't stop it? And haven't you moms and dads prayed that they would have an abundant life? Haven't you prayed that they would launch well, that they would find meaningful careers, that they would live on purpose, that they would engage with the things that they that matter to them? Like, haven't you prayed for this?

So why are you in the way? Because you've chosen not to have your own life. Oh, that sounds painful. Oh dear, I don't want anyone to stop listening. But you know, seriously, sometimes the parent needs to decide to make some changes.

I hope that comes across.

Okay. Yeah.

I hope parents are listening. Thank you. You mentioned you mentioned this earlier, but could you talk more about social media and the instant information that we have today, and how that affects resolving conflict with our adult children? Yeah, that's an interesting question. I love that.

Right, social media is a reason that adult children aren't distancing themselves from their family. They've been following people we don't know. They're following. They've been misled by. I think the liar is loud on much of social media, and it's really dangerous.

And you're right about instant information. They don't think they need us anymore. You know, when when I was a kid, I had to leave my bedroom go find my dad. And when I became an adult kid and I moved away, I still reached out to my dad for a variety of things, and my mom for other things.

Now, our young adults are asking, you know, AI for information because they it's efficient, it's quick, it's easy, it's private. Nobody has to know that I've just googled an answer to this particular question, if you will.

So it's it really dangerous, and it it teaches kids that they they it teaches. Kids to believe that they don't need anybody, they don't need siblings, they don't need grandparents, they don't need parents, and that's that's really dangerous.

So many opinions out there, right? But we haven't taught our adult children to discern which opinion to follow. Like, if I have a biblical worldview, I should be paying attention to people who also have a biblical worldview. But when I go to AI and I ask questions, unless I research who's giving me the answer, I don't have a clue if that answer came from anybody who has values similar to mine. And I love to tell children that you know AI is it's a liberally programmed computer who doesn't know you love you or know or love your God.

So you have to be really careful. Yeah, yeah. What about the flip side of that, Dr. Kathy, and the the grandparents who see all of their friends having these wonderful relationships with their grandkids, taking a fishing, going to you know watching a movie with popcorn, and the grandparents look at that and and they long for that that. Accentuates the the the loss in their own life, doesn't it?

It does. They can become jealous and resentful and more bitter when they see that. And this is here's what I would say: find someone in your church and take them to a movie. I know it's not the same. I understand that.

You grieve, and there's a whole chapter on grief. You grieve the loss of your adult children and their children, and you dreamt of movies and ice cream sundaes and all of that. But how many people in our churches are lacking family? There are children in your churches who don't have people in the grandparent age group, either because they're deceased, they're on the other side of the country, or they can't be trusted because they don't have a biblical worldview. And the adult children have chosen to not let their grandchildren be majorly influenced by that.

But could you go to them? Could you ask a children's pastor, a youth pastor, hey, who do you know in like the thirteen-year-old age range who could benefit from a mentor my age? And then you ask permission to to get a phone number of an adult and you say, hey, could could we invite you guys over for Mother's Day? Because we understand you don't have a mother in town. We'd love to invite you over on Mother's Day.

Or you know, does your is your kid a piano player? I I loved playing the piano and I loved all my piano recitals. Could I go to your kid's piano recital and be like the surrogate grandmother? I mean, like, come on! And I think this is where some of our heartache then diminishes because we're investing and we're loving.

Because the thing is, you guys, the love hasn't stopped. You were created to love, and your dream was to love your family, and you can still love your family even though you're not with your family. But now you can pour out your love to your neighbor, into a community group, into an agency in town that needs the type of service that you could provide, and families in your church, Dr. Kathy. One of the things you point out in the book is the.

Family dynamic of a marriage: the son or daughter gets married, and that spouse is seen then by the the parents as bringing, you know, it's her fault or it's his fault. She must, you know, talk about that dynamic. It is hard.

Sometimes it is the person your child married who chooses to separate for any number of reasons. Often that's not the case, but sometimes it is. But you know, we're going to struggle when our kids marry. We want them married, perhaps. Again, you've prayed for the spouse, you celebrated the marriage, and all of that, but you didn't realize how much you'd miss your kids.

Like they used to live with you. Used to serve their favorite meal every Sunday noon, you know, and you did movie night and board game night, and you ran errands with them, and you celebrated all of their college achievements or whatever. And now they're married, and maybe they live in town, maybe they don't. But it's hard because you miss them, so you got to grieve. You've just got to grieve.

It's so important. You've got to assume that the one they married isn't necessarily a horrible person. Look for what you have in common. Talk about traditions. Like you know, we're we're a Christmas Eve, open the present family.

Are you a Christmas Morning family, or are you also a Christmas Eve family? How are we going to do that? You know how important is Easter dinner? You know what about you know summer vacations? Could we do that together?

And you talk about that, and you look for the good always, always, gentlemen. You look for the good. What do we have in common? And and what is good about this relationship? And what is it that we can talk about where we'll have quick agreement, so that we don't necessarily.

Have a silent supper, or a dinner that's full of discord.

So you're going for an open, honest, communicating relationship together that you build on, rather than one that you know just happens, right? Wouldn't that be the dream? But you know that's only possible if we decide we don't have to be right all the time. Like, come on, we don't have to be right all the time, and we can choose to agree to disagree, and we can choose to talk about only some things, and we can share our marriage. Victories, and we can ask about in the last month.

Where have you just known and just be? How have you been renewed in your love for each other? Like ask different questions, and I think it could be profoundly beautiful. You're listening to the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast.

You can find more simple ways to strengthen your relationships at buildingrelationships.us. Our featured resource today is Dr. Kathy Cook's book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. You can find out more right there at buildingrelationships.us, or go to fivelovelanguages.com. Dr.

Cook, the title of your book involves the words "resolve conflict" between, you know, parents and their adult children. But when you say "resolve," does that mean that all the conflicts going to go away if you can just do one, two, three, four, five? Like, did I write a miracle book? Is that what you're asking? Wouldn't that Wouldn't that be great?

No, that's really not what I mean. And I love your question. I think, though, that if we if we communicate the way that I recommend, if we understand again the perspective of the other people in our dynamic, if we you know choose to love well, etc., etc., we can agree to disagree. We can learn to relate, so there are fewer conflicts going. Forward, we can put conflict behind us and just recognize, hey, we're never going to see eye to eye on this issue.

So let's just rest that issue at least for now. And we develop a perspective, we develop a respect and a love, and I think it makes new conflict less likely. Yeah.

How do you know, as a parent, if you're making progress in the relationship with your adult children? Are there some signs? I think so. They would reach out to us rather than us always having to reach out to them, and and they would reach out to us for every day nonsense. A friend of mine has had a difficult relationship with an adult child who's married, and just told me this past week that all of a sudden.

Her daughter is starting to call just because she's in the car and has a moment to talk. Like there's nothing significant to necessarily communicate. It's just the kind of stuff that you communicate, you know, because you you care about the other person's perspective or whatever.

So I think when they reach out to us, it's a good sign. When we reach out to them and they don't reject us, of course, that's a good sign. Less anxiety, right? Less stress. I know of some.

Parents who are stressed the entire morning before they're going to meet a child for lunch because they're just so afraid that it might not go well.

So feel the less stress, feel less anxiety, and praise the Lord for that. And recognize that progress is made. One of the problems I think we have in general relationally is that we don't look for small growth. We expect the major miracle, and so we're always frustrated. No, if you look for small growth.

More eye contact, longer answers to your questions rather than grunts. You know, if you look for small growth and celebrate that, you might get more growth, and you'll feel better, and the kid will feel better because you're feeling better about them. It's a win-win. Yeah, yeah. You know, Kathy, one of the things I've faced in my office for the last few years, more than ever, is when adult children are walking away from their faith in Christ.

So, what encouragement do you give for parents whose adult children are, in fact, sharing with them that no, I no longer believe in God, or I no longer believe in whatever you know. Right, right, right. Whole chapter on that because again, this is this is the key, right? This is what we should be grieving about more than anything else. I do talk about again looking for small growth and expecting it.

I think we need to pray specifics, and I think one of the things that we pray for them is that God will surround them with Christians because you know what, Gary, we might not be the ones that win them back. And it's not about us. It can't be about us. If you think that you have to be the one to say the right thing to get your son back into church, then again, you're idolizing yourself, and you've put your hope in yourself rather than in God. And I don't say that lightly.

It happens all the time, and I get that. But it's not about us.

So I think we pray that they'll be surrounded by Christians who will be able to live a Christian life in front of them, and even surprise your adult child. Go wait, you're a Christian, you know. And then they realize, okay, some Christians. Are really nice or whatever, and then here's here's another thing, Dr. Chapman.

I think we need to be more concerned about winning them to Jesus than winning them to the church. The the majority of questions that I hear is how do I get my kid back into church? And I know church matters. My church is very important to me. My pastor, my people, my fellowship very very important.

Um, and yet I want I want these adult children to care again about Jesus, to care again about the God. Who created them and who loves them, you know more deeply than we ever could.

So, and and it's possible, Dr. Chapman, that there are adult children who have walked away from something they never actually had. Yeah, and that I don't say that lightly, but where again they pretended to have a relationship. They they were religious. I was religious until the age of nineteen.

I looked like such a good little good girl. I was a religious person. And then praise God for Jesus.

So I think we pray them into Jesus, and we pray that they would desire more of Jesus, that they would turn to the God of the Bible and His hope and His strength, and His wisdom and His love on the days when they're struggling, rather than turning to social media and turning to something they're addicted to. I think those those things really matter. And we also need to live a vibrant life before them. If we are in relationship with them and still available to the Conversation and the occasional get together, then we talk about the Jesus we love, and we demonstrate unconditional love, and we talk about the hope that we get from the God of the Bible without apology, because our testimony is not wrong. Gary, let me turn that question to you because you know there are a lot of parents who say, "Training up a child in the way they should go." Well, I did that.

You know, I did my part. God, why didn't you show up here? What do you say to the parent who is really struggling with you know that that faith choice that their child has made? Yeah, well, you know, Chris, one of the things I've said is. When you look at the prodigal son in the New Testament, who left, you know, took his money and left and lived the life of riotous away from God and family, the father did not go out and try to bring him back.

Right. The father kept the farm going, so that when God brought his son to the hog pen, and he realized I'd be better off working on the farm than out here feeding somebody else's hogs, he went home. Yeah, and so I think we have to recognize we pray for them and we ask God. We're not asking Him to bring them to the hog pen, but but often that's what it takes, you know. But we're we're praying for God to work in their hearts, and we certainly want to be available and reaching out to them if we have if we have information on how to contact them.

But I think we have to recognize that God is the one who brings people. Either back to himself, or to himself, because as you said, Kathy, sometimes they they really don't know Christ and they've just walked away from religion.

So, but whatever, God is the one that touches hearts and draws them to Himself, and so that's one of the things I've encouraged couples to—I mean, you know, parents to do. Yeah, yeah, and it follows along with what you just said, Kathy. It's not—you know—the the the prodigal son came to himself. I love that the scripture. He kind of.

Woke up, but it was himself. It's the not the parent pressing the nerve or yelling, sending him texts to the to the hogan. The parent has to have that confidence that God, in His wisdom and sovereignty and timing, is going to do something in that child's life, right? Yes, and and you know he doesn't always work the way that we would like him to. Hello, he's God; he gets to make these decisions.

But that doesn't mean that we don't have hope that he will. We don't question the fact that he loves them. We don't question the fact that he would love to protect them. But again, we have free will, and sin is a real thing, and we have to recognize that. Yeah.

A man said to me not long ago. He said, "Doc Chapman, for four years I've had no contact with my adult daughter. She refuses to answer phones. You know, she cut me off from all contact. And he said, 'I've been praying, you know, that God would just work in her heart.' And he said, 'Last week I got a phone call.'" And she said, "Dad, I'd like to, I'd like to come home and visit with you.

Would that be okay?" He said, "Certainly, honey. I would love for you to come home." And he said, "The conversation we had there, man. He said, 'That's what I've longed for all these years.' But you know, it was God that worked in her heart. It wasn't the father, you know, pounding her over the head with you know that kind of pressure." Amen. Amen.

Beautiful. Dr. Cook, you mentioned earlier the value of communication and communication patterns, but but talk with us a little more about that because I think a lot of parents they know how to talk, but they don't know how to listen and other factors.

So talk talk a little more about the whole thing about healthy communication. Yes, I would love to. And of course, you're you're an expert here. We've got to listen to understand. We don't listen for our turn to talk.

We don't listen to judge. We listen to understand, and that means that we listen longer. We let them tell their whole story. We question in a way that is not feeling intrusive or dismissive, but genuine. You know, help me understand.

Hey, keep talking. Tell me more about that.

Well, what do you want to know?

Well, I want to understand you, so I just I need more information.

So listen to understand. It will it will go far for you. They will feel respect in that. And I I love the idea, and I know you do too, of I language versus you language.

So I feel disappointed when you never follow through. Don't use never because never and always are never true. I just said never, but you know.

So I feel disappointed when you don't follow through. Or I feel dismissed when you just appear to not have time for me, versus you never have time for me. When you when you use a you statement, you know you disappoint me. Whoa, that that's judgment, and that is going to cause them to kind of back away and rise up and disagree with you. But you have a right to your feelings, right?

You have a right to being disappointed. Like I am so sorry that our relationship isn't what it could be. Versus, you know, because of your choices, our relationship is terrible.

So I language practice that in front of the mirror because it's not always the the natural way to communicate, but it can be a real blessing to people. And then I'll say one other thing, Doctor Chapman, and that is this idea that we have a story that we tell ourselves.

So let's say, for instance, that you've invited your child over to dinner. She lives she lives in town, and you've invited her over three different nights of the week for three weeks in a row, and she always says no. And then you ask again, and she says no. And now you could say to her, "The story that I am telling myself is that I am not important to you." See, we tell ourselves a story, right? And that might not be true.

The story that I am telling myself is that I am not important to you. Or the story that I'm telling myself is that everybody else is more important than I am, and then your daughter goes, "Oh no, that's not true. I'm just legitimately busy." Oh well, what are you doing on all of those nights? I mean, you could ask that question, and maybe you don't know that your daughter has signed up for a committee at work, and they're having to work outside of normal hours, or whatever the case may be. But the story that I'm telling myself—it's really interesting—and you guys think about that.

So let's say that you know. I don't know. Again, the example of, or maybe you've offered to help out with the grandkids and they never accept your help. No, I don't need you. No, I've got a different babysitter.

No, it's really okay. And then the story that I am telling myself is that you don't trust me with your children, or the story that I am telling myself is that I've done something to cause you to doubt my ability to take care of the kids. Is that true?

Well, no.

Okay, so then can I help out tomorrow night?

Well, no, we don't need you.

Well, see, that's why I'm telling myself the story that you don't trust me, and I must have done something. That language can be very powerful. It doesn't sound as judgmental, and it's a fascinating way to look at it. I'd love to know, Dodger Chapman, what you think of that. Is would you agree that that can be profitable?

I'm kind of putting you on the spot.

Well, it's very interesting. Yeah, I don't know that I've thought of it that way before. To be honest with you, interesting story I'm telling myself is because that's rather than just saying you make me feel this way or you do this. Yeah, no, I like that idea. Cool.

Well, let's talk a minute about the whole political world. Because today we have lots of disagreement when it comes to this area of life.

So, what if your adult children are going to vote a different way from the way you vote, and they share that with you? How are you going to respond? How do you handle that?

Well, I think you should be honored that they trust you with that information.

So I think maybe the first words out of your mouth are, "Man, thanks for letting me know that," and we can be. Let's be sad before we're mad. Like if you really believe that they're a believer and they're not voting biblical values, let's be sad. Before we're mad, and you don't have to say that to them, but you could if you feel like you have the relationship where they would hear that. I think often we don't need to talk about it.

Like it's frustrating, right? Because they cancel our vote. This is what's so real. You know, I'm going to vote for this candidate. They're going to vote for that candidate.

Why are we bothering to vote? Like that's what's so frustrating. But here's what I want to really point out to people: we can agree to disagree. And but if you're listening today, and you have younger children, teach them why you vote the way you vote. Like I have met so many parents who have admitted to me they've never taught their children why they give to the organizations they give to, why they're pro life, why they're this, and why they're that, and why they vote this platform and not that platform.

Why do we expect that our adult children, having grown up with us, will vote the way that we vote? If we don't talk with them about why we have the values that we have, now some families have done a beautiful job of that. Praise the Lord, but other parents have looked at me and go, "Oh, you're right." Like we've gone through the motions, like we go to the poll. Maybe we even took them when they were little because we wanted them to know that voting matters. It's like a really beautiful thing that we have in America.

But have I ever sat down with my preteens and my teens and looked at the platforms of this candidate and that candidate and talked about why we would vote for one versus the other? And if I went to a a meeting with this candidate, what question might I want to ask to find out what she believes? Like I don't think we've done a good job of teaching our kids and this. This is why they feel like we shouldn't just be mad at them. And, gentlemen, I don't say that lightly, but I want I want people to understand that the difference is different.

It doesn't mean that they're terrible people that they're voting for a different candidate. They might be confused and deceived, and they're believing somebody else's perspective. That doesn't necessarily make them terrible people, but that's something we have to choose to believe. Yeah, I think there are families that have just stopped talking about politics because they know it it gets hot. Yeah, but you're I think you're right.

We need to be doing that when they're teenagers, helping them understand what various ideas that are being discussed and so forth.

So yeah, very thank you. Good, yeah, cool.

Okay, now we know that there are adult children. Who eventually just cut themselves off from all contact with their parents? I mentioned an example of that earlier. Is that a bad thing? And why do sometimes adult children do that?

Wow, is it a bad thing? Unless there's real abuse, yes. I mean, I think again, God ordains the family before He ordains the church. We're perfectly imperfect for each other. We're perfectly imperfect parents for perfectly imperfect children.

And the family matters generationally, and so I do think that in in a perfect world, and we don't live in a perfect world, we would not need to distance ourselves from any blood relative.

So, is it a bad thing? Yes, unless there's been real abuse and. Gentlemen, we we all know there's real abuse in some dysfunctional families, and for the emotional safety and even the spiritual safety of some adult children, they've they've chosen to distance.

Now, some of them are being given really horrible advice by counselors. You know, you and I both work with the American Association of Christian Counselors. You know, the three of us care deeply about biblical truth, and we would we would counsel that way. But if our adult children are seeing a therapist, A counselor, a mental health coach, a life coach, and that person does not share a believer belief system, if you will. They're going to counsel them badly.

And there are some counselors who said, "Oh, you don't need parents anymore. You know, you're 24 years old. Why do you care what your dad thinks?" And and it's motivating too many adult children to walk away, which is tragic. As I told you already on the show, sometimes they've had bad relationships with their parents in the past. You know, they were 16, 17 years old.

They were rebellious. They felt like Their parents were too strict, or they resent that they were raised in a Christian school. They made me go to a Christian school. They exposed me to all of this nonsense. I mean, this is a story that they're reinventing.

They're telling themselves a new story. They they didn't resent it when they were kids. They loved their Christian school education. They loved that it was a, a generous, safe and and and good place to be. But now, they're hanging out with people like, oh, you were so protected.

You were so privatized. Like, what did your parents not trust you in the public schools? What were they thinking? And so they they reinvent the story, which is really hard. And and truly, like I said before, there are some adult children who do not want to keep disappointing their parents.

It's too much stress. Too much. Pressured, so they'd rather cut themselves off than be in communication with somebody who's continually disappointed. And I don't say that lightly, but I do know that that's true. And I'll mention one other thing, and this is interesting.

You know, a lot of our parents have helicoptered their kids, right? They were overparented.

So, and and being a helicopter parent or a bulldozer parent, that usually means that, you know, you're the one that says, "Hey, don't spill the juice." And you're the one who said, "Hey, soccer tryouts are Saturday. Do you want to go in the backyard and kick the ball around?" Like you're helping your kids. You meant it as good help.

Now many parents who overparent did it because they wanted to look good. You got to decide if I'm speaking truth to you or not. But now what's happened is those children who were helicoptered, who were overparented, don't want to be overparented anymore. They want to grow up. They have to learn how to make decisions, and they have to deal with the consequences of the decisions they make, and they know that.

But if we keep being in their business, overprotecting, then they believe they won't have that chance to mature, which is what they actually want. And what they've said to me is, "Dr. Kathy, I don't think my mom can be any other kind of a mom, except an overinvolved mom." So I have to separate. Yeah.

So if you're listening to us today, and you're like, "Oh, I was a helicopter mom." First of all, we're not judging you. You were the best that you knew how to be in the moment. No shame or blame here at all. Just realize that if you were overparenting and your motives were good. And you have an adult child who's distancing themselves from you.

It could be that they don't know if you can back away. And what you could do is have a conversation. Man, I heard this radio interview, and they were talking about the fact that parents who overparented have maybe caused the adult children to think that they're going to keep being in their business. And son, if I've done that to you, I am so sorry. I get it now why you have said, you know, could you please stop calling every night?

I am so sorry. Like my love has compelled me to be so involved, but I get it now. And if you'll give me some grace and space, I'm going to really try to learn how to how to back off. Like that would be an amazing conversation, and I think in some cases it would work. Yep, absolutely.

Well, Dr. Cook, the last chapter of your book is speaking to the whole issue of hope. Because we know many of those parents are just struggling. They feel frustrated. They feel angry about the relationship with their adult children.

So let's close our program with just a few words about hope that you that you share in that last chapter. Yeah, thank you so much. We have to put our hope in God, not in ourselves and not in our children. We can't place our hope in our adult kids. Man, I hope they turn around.

We can't put our hope in ourselves because we're we're imperfect and we only know what we know. But to hope in God, look back: has He been faithful to you? Has He loved you and your adult children well through life? Has he been there in a time of need? Has his strength, you know, been available to you?

Has his wisdom changed you, etc.?

So, know the God of the Bible and know that He is worthy of all hope. And so, you pray to Him, and with your children's names, and you ask Him to show up and be there. Everything, yeah, it can't be us.

Well, that's a great place to bring a conclusion to our discussion today because our hope really is in God.

So, thank you for being with us today, and God bless you for the time and energy you've invested in this book. I think it's going to help a lot of people.

So, thank you again for what you're doing. Thank you so much. The title again of Dr. Kathy Cook's book is "Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children." We have it linked at the website buildingrelationships.us. Again, go to buildingrelationships.us.

And next week, a fictional couple named Rick and Jane learn to communicate in marriage. See Rick and Jane learn to listen and talk in one week. Our thanks to Janice Backing and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman's production of Moody Radio and association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

Thanks for listening.