Sibling pastors David and Brandon talk about fearless manhood today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. God did create me to be a climber and to overcome challenges and to face hard things. Believing that and then connecting to his purpose is really the start. Guys, if you're gonna live a life that is lion-hearted, then you're gonna have to get a hold of what's going on on the inside.
Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Author of The New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" .
Well our guests today believe it's difficult to know what it means to be a man. The internal and external pressures can cause men to hold back their masculinity. David and Brandon Lindell believe men were meant to be lion-hearted. That's the title of their book, which is our featured resource at buildingrelationships.us. The full title is Lionhearted, A Man's Guide to Living Focused, Fulfilled, and Fearless.
Just go to buildingrelationships.us. And, Gary, I think there are a lot of struggles men have, which have remained the same through generations, but it seems to me. That there is more pressure today now than ever. Do you agree with that?
Well, it certainly seems to me that that is true, Chris. You know, I just run into a lot of men, interface with a lot of men, many of them who grew up in very dysfunctional families, you know, never had a healthy father, so they don't have that model. And let's face it, life is hard today. And so I'm excited about our conversation today. I'm excited about this book.
So looking forward to talking to David and Brandon. I'm excited because they're brothers. How about that? I don't think we've ever had brothers on the program, Gary. David and Brandon, Lindell, L-I-N-D-E-L-L.
But it's pronounced Lindell, so we get that out of the way. They're both executive ministry pastors at James River Church in Springfield, Missouri. David's a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary. He and his wife Becky have four children. Branded inspires and teaches through preaching, worship, songwriting, and the arts.
He's the younger brother. A graduate of Central Bible College. He and his wife Beth have four children.
So them coming to your church constitutes a bus ministry. Their book is our featured resource, Lionhearted: A Man's Guide to Living Focused, Fulfilled, and Fearless. You can find it at buildingrelationships.us.
Well David and Brandon, welcome to Building Relationships. Hey, we are thrilled to be on with you. You are a living legend, and we are indebted to you for all the material you've put out. It's enriched our lives for sure. I just would like to start by saying you were a big part of my engagement to my wife and a healthy marriage that we have just through "The 5 Love Languages" .
And I know you've helped so many people. We just feel absolutely privileged to be. Talking to you today.
Well, I'm always encouraged that something I have written has helped people. And I'm sure that's your desire as you write this book as well. Why this message to men and why now?
Well, as you mentioned already, you know, there are a lot of guys. Frankly, in the culture around us, I mean, and the culture certainly isn't helping this. Unfortunately, it feels like we're going backwards in the way that we develop men, in how we help boys step into manhood. You know, the whole. The idea of even a rite of passage and what it means to become a man, that's all been lost.
And so, what we find is, you know, unfortunately, the 20s are the new adolescents, and now as guys move into adulthood, They don't even really know what an adult is, whether it's because they came from a broken home or they had. They maybe had an intact home life, but it was filled with dysfunction. And so, for us, we're pastors. See this up close and personal. We've got a front row seat for so many men who.
Struggle as they get into the responsibilities of life. They're now carrying a load, whether they got married or they have a child, and now there are other people depending on them. And yet they've got things on the inside that nobody really ever helped them sort out. And our culture confuses the issue immensely and now puts voices, as you know, there are all these voices telling them: okay, this is the way to go, or this is the way to think. And it's, Not only confusing, it's distorting the message of what biblical masculinity is.
What does it look like to live as a man created in the image of God? And so, for us, we just, this has been a refrain in ministry. We lead a very large men's movement called Stronger. And so, you know, gathering thousands of men every year. And every time we get men in a space, we see the brokenness, we see the confusion.
And so, for us, We really wanted to drive a stake in the ground. This book is all written around a very simple idea, simple yet profound idea pinned by Solomon under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in Proverbs 4:23. Above all else, guard your heart because everything you do. Flows from it. And here's the thing: if guys don't get a hold of what's going on in the heart, Then the wreckage their life is gonna produce is gonna be on every front of their life because everything comes out of the heart.
And so, for us, we wanted to go back to the beginning.
Okay, guys, if you're gonna live a life. That is lion-hearted. Then you're going to have to get a hold of what's going on on the inside. And so that's. That's why this book and why now.
It's a combination of the cultural crisis moment and the refrain we hear from men continually about what they're bumping up against in life.
Now since you guys are brothers, I want to ask this question. Did you catch this vision? For men, for From your father? Absolutely. Can't think of somebody.
that is more lion-hearted than our dad. And he is j he uh all through growing up he was Um so intentional. to speak into our lives. to be an example. to tell us, here's what I'm doing, here's why I'm doing it.
And as we're both dads, we both have four kids, and oftentimes we'll think back to moments where he did that. And where he was intentional. And how he said things and how he did things. And even today, we still, both of us, work with him. We have the privilege of working together.
with him And he's definitely an example of a lion-hearted man. Man, but then we're hitting 40. We have wives, we have kids, we're doing life. And We also are, you know, you have your own struggles and your own challenges and. You're navigating your own life and your own parenting, and you're like, okay, how do I translate?
The example that he gave our lives into this generation. Because every generation carries their own challenges and problems. And the guys of this generation need a voice that can speak their language.
So, as we're working through it, you know, we don't have everything figured out. It's not like we wrote the book lion-hearted because, man, We've nailed every part of being a lion-hearted man.
However, there are things that we feel God has put in our heart that can help guys. Become that in their life. There are things that God has put in us that we feel will encourage guys and challenge guys. Maybe somebody's listening to this and they don't. They're like, well, my dad was not that.
My dad was not intentional or my dad. is maybe the opposite of what they would describe as a lion-hearted person. It's not about having somebody in your life like that in order to become lionhearted. You don't have to have that, but it is about getting guys in your world. And guys who are farther down the road, somebody who can be a mentor for you, somebody who can be an example of that.
For you. who can help you be like, okay. I see their life. I want to live my life like that. And that could be a mentor from a distance or whatever.
The book, all that bringing that all together is designed to be like, okay, you have somebody in your life like that, or you see somebody that's like a distance mentor, a guy that you're like, man, how did they get to that point? The book provides some handholds, some stepping stones, some practical things. That helps guys be like, okay, I wanna move from here to there. I believe God's put purpose on my life. I want my life to achieve that.
I want my life to look lionhearted. I wanna be a godly man. And I just need to know how to do that.
So I hear you saying that for some people, yes, this idea of being a lion-hearted man can be caught from your father. But for the many, many people who didn't have that kind of father, they can be taught. It can be taught. Yeah. And this book is a part of the process.
It can be. Obviously, you can catch some things by being around people, and that's why you want mentors in your life. And if that is your dad, praise God. If it's not, find somebody. And catching things is a big part of it.
But yes, you can. Be taught. Principles And have a guidebook basically, or a guideline for your life, get influences into your life outside of just people. That can help you be a lion-hearted man.
Well, David and Brandon, you open the book with a description of your family visits to Rocky Mountain National Park. How does mountain climbing relate to the message about navigating life's challenges?
Well, we had the privilege of almost every year going to Colorado. My dad calls it God's country. The mountains, the sun, you know, just the Broncos.
Sorry to all the fans of other teams out there, but the Bronco fan family. Us, that's such a core memory. It's a core memory, and I think there's one scene that I think. Sticks with us. And that is, we would love as kids to be on these car rides through the mountains.
And we were with our grandparents and our parents. The car was packed out. I think we were going up to the Continental Divide. And on the way, if you are a parent with young kids and you've gone through the mountains, you know, especially for boys, You drive through these canyons and they see these towering walls, and they're looking at it and going, Can we stop? Can I climb that?
You know, can I just scale up some of these rocks? You know, like there's nothing better. And so we would constantly. Pester our parents, like, could we pull over and just climb for a little bit? We weren't mountain climbers, we were kids, but we wanted to scale something.
And so on one particular drive. They acquiesced to our request to pull over. When they did, we started climbing up this rock face. Not really, they were talking. We were just going, we were just being, and we got stuck.
I think we got stuck maybe 100 feet up the rock face.
So, too far up, you don't wanna fall. It's very, you know, very precarious. And so, what does our dad do? He climbs around the backside of it and comes over the top of us and pulls us off of this. You know, out of this moment of for us, what was terrifying.
You know, we thought a helicopter needed to be called in. Um, but as we were writing the book, we were thinking about this because, on multiple fronts, one, men want a challenge, men want something to scale. We were created with this innate desire to, you know, to conquer and the challenge to be embraced. And so, I think it resonates on that end of things. But anybody who's actually climbed a mountain and not just gone up a hundred feet of a rock face knows it's not easy.
Like, my dad and I had the privilege of climbing Kilimanjaro in 2011 together, and it was a very, very taxing experience, but incredibly rewarding. And so I think for the generation of men that are coming up right now. A lot of them have not been taught to face challenge head on and wouldn't even like that it's intimidating and they shy away, they back away. Instead of embracing the challenge, recognizing that when you do that, you actually tap into something that. God hardwired you with a desire for.
And you You need then, like Brandon said just a minute ago. You need guys who you're going to find yourself in some tough spots. You're going to find yourself in some spots that you didn't anticipate having to navigate that. that terrain. And you're going to need a godly.
Older man, somebody who's a little bit further down the journey to give you a handhold. And probably pull you out of some tough spots. But we like to say men become men in the presence of other men. That really is the journey we went on with our dad. And it's the journey that we think every man needs to go on.
You need guys in your life who will not just give you a hand up, not just encourage you on the journey, but also. Shape you through their words, their action, their example. And so, in a lot of, there's a lot of correlations between mountain climbing and This journey toward becoming the lion-hearted man, namely a man who's been created in the image of God. And Jesus is the prototype of the lion-hearted man. Becoming like Christ is really it has so many correlations to the journey of going into the mountains and climbing and the challenge of that, and yet the exhilaration of that, the fulfillment of that.
And so that's really why we wanted to point to that example.
Well, I'm going to let you guys climb the mountains, okay? But I agree with the analogy.
Well, we'll take you to Kilimanjaro anytime. I'll stand there and look at it, all right? It is beautiful.
Now, you both write that God created you with the heart of a lion.
Now, what does that mean, and why is it important to know?
Well, just like David was saying. Guys were built. to do hard things. To Conquer. to overcome challenges.
To carry the weight, to lead. We really believe that. Every guy God has put that inside of them. And whether your life looks like that or not. As a man, it doesn't matter.
God's put it inside of you. The question is, are you pursuing that and are you tapping into that? when we're writing the book and saying every guy can be, should be lionhearted. We're not saying every guy is. We're just saying that's the potential that God has put in them, and how do they reach that?
Obviously, you know. That starts with a relationship with Jesus, that's real. Where Jesus is able to interact with you and talk with you daily, and He's the King and the Lord of your life because you'll never have any hope. of getting the inside right and being lion-hearted until You are connected to the lion-hearted Man, Jesus Christ, who is also God. Who changes you from the inside out?
But every guy has that potential. And I I think sometimes Whether it's through the challenges of life or mistakes they've made or decisions that have happened that they're, that had consequences that were. long-term consequences. And they look at their life and they're like, man, I can never be that. And I don't look like that.
And maybe that's not for me. The fact of the matter is, that's a lie from the enemy. That's not true. God created you for a purpose. And no matter where you find yourself listening to this today, God still has purpose for you.
And you can be lion-hearted. Yeah, I think when guys make that decision, oftentimes they insulate their life in a way where they're like. Honestly, they're just, they camp out down in the basement somewhere. and they like dive deep into video games or Or they find themselves and they're like they're not engaging with their family and they're going out to the garage and just pursuing a hobby, which hobbies aren't bad. Hobbies can be really good.
And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with video gaming, I'm saying those things become. a hiding place for them because they just don't want to face life and they don't want to face their challenges and they've given up on What honestly God has put inside of them, and what we hope would happen as they. Hear this message, and they're listening to this today, and we believe it will happen. By the power of the Holy Spirit, is to be like, you know what? God did create me for that.
God did create me to be a climber and to overcome challenges and to be lion-hearted and to face hard things and to do hard things. I mean, believing that and then connecting to his purpose is really the start. And then when you do that. Every single guy. Can be lionhearted and can see God do.
Awesome things in their life and can see God use them to really accomplish things that they never thought was possible. It's not any of us can do anything on our own. In fact, I just read this morning, Jesus. Is challenging. The people that are following him.
And his words are so challenging that people are leaving him. you know so That, I mean, he's telling them things that they don't want to hear, which often a lion-hearted person does. But the message in that whole thing was: literally, apart from me, you can do nothing. And so this isn't a message of like, hey, these five steps. You know, if you just do them, you'll be lion-hearted.
It's a message of get the inside right. And that's going to be in conjunction with the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ doing something in your heart you could never do. But if you have faith. That he can work in you, then you can, every single guy. Be a lion-hearted man.
Yeah, and I think, you know. around that idea. Brainon's kind of alluding to it, but a lot of guys back off. Honestly, from they had a dream, they felt even Christians they back off from what they felt the calling of God was on their life. And so we want to reconnect them with honestly what Proverbs 28:1 says: the righteous are as bold as a lion.
That's right. And I would hope that men walk away from. The reading of this book with this newfound tenacity. To say, that is the way I'm going to live. I am going to live with that kind of boldness, empowered by the Holy Spirit.
with Jesus As not just my Savior, my Lord, but also as the prototype. for what life should be. Should look like. I'm supposed to follow in his steps. And if I'm going to be lion-hearted, I got to look like Jesus.
And I think God often uses individual testimonies that you guys are giving today and books like this to help people. you know, take a step in a different direction from what they've been walking.
So, you know.
Well, as brothers, you grew up in the same home. You had some of the same influences. But you're very different. How do you both live lion-hearted, a little differently from the other person? One of the things one of my pastors, when I was in seminary, my pastor was Matt Chandler at the village church.
Love Pastor Matt. the ministry that happens there. But he would say, find the things that stir your affections for God and do them. And the fact of the matter is, for all of us. Scripture is going to stir our affections for God.
Prayer, when you spend time with God, you draw near to God, He's going to draw near to you.
So there are some things that are immovable rocks, they have to be in your life. But there are a lot of things that just come down to the way God wired you and made you. For some people, like going fly fishing is like, oh man, I get out on the river and there's just something about that. I feel the pleasure of heaven, you know, like, and that feeds my desire to be like Christ. And it, it caught, it's almost like, you know, this is a moment of worship as I admire God's creation.
It's just something that, you know, makes my soul come alive, you know. And then for other people, that's a nightmare. It's like where the water is cold and I, you know, then I have to deal with fish. And, you know, so, um, and for us as brothers, I think there are a lot of things we have. Deeply in common, but like I'm, you know, my family and I, like, we're into camping and we don't mind if it's pouring rain.
We'll, We'll pack up, we'll go out there. Like my, you know, my sons and I backpack together. That's not necessarily Brandon's jam. And yet, that's totally fine. Like, they like, if we are out on a trail somewhere with backpacks and sleeping in hammocks, he's probably going to be at a four-star hotel.
You know, like, I don't, you know, he's going to be somewhere a little bit cushier, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's every, so you know, everybody's got different things that kind of go, okay, this is what I, what I like. Yet that also translates. To your walk with God. And there are things that stir, you know, some people like reading theology.
It actually.
Some people, it puts them to sleep, you know, and it's not that they don't agree with it, believe that there's deep truths about God to be discovered. It's just that that doesn't really, it doesn't get them. Fired up. And that's okay.
So I would say to the person, you know, like, Brandon writes music. an album is coming out of the church right now that he is the executive producer on. Like he's very involved in all of that musically, writing, all those parts of it. And that something about that makes his soul come alive. And For me, like I'm not.
That's not my, that's just not me. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't even have the gifting for it, and so. I think for all of us, we get into trouble when we try to mimic. The things that somebody else is doing, and run, you know, either run their race or we go, well, I just want to be like them because they seem really fulfilled and they seem really happy and they seem like they have it all together.
Well, one, that's probably not true. They probably don't have it all together, almost definitely don't. But. If they're healthy. They're actually pursuing the things that God wired them to pursue, and God has called them to pursue, and they're not just following somebody else.
Yeah. As like, well, they look fulfilled, so I'm going to do that and then I'll be fulfilled. They've discovered, they've tapped into how God wired them and created them. And now they're moving toward that as an act of worship. And so I think for every guy out there, like, it's good to have heroes, it's good to have examples, it's good to have models.
But I would say as well, Embrace who Who God created you to be, and walk in that with a confidence. And it takes, hey, that takes time. Embrace the fact that God created you the way you are, and He loves that about you. Like He loves the things that He the desires and interests and passions He wired you with.
So walk in those to the glory of God. And I think that as brothers, That's been fun because we can celebrate one another. I can celebrate what Brandon. Is is different in and excels at, and he can celebrate the differences in me. Absolutely.
I think the big thing is just stay in your lane, you know? Like, God's given each of us a calling on our life. He's given us giftings to accomplish that, he's given us purpose. And the more you're trying to run somebody else's race, Or have somebody else's gifting. Or just even looking at that and overemphasizing that.
Can cause you to miss things that are right in front of you that God has for you, for your life, that are really significant, very powerful. Very purposeful, but you'll miss them if you're if you got your eyes on somebody else's, somebody else's calling, somebody else's gifting, somebody else's passion. It's fun to work with each other. And I hope that example of us working together as brothers for people out there who God's placed you in life with other gifted people. That I hope that's an example to you of like you have something significant on your life, and somebody else's blessing or gifting doesn't mean that you have less.
And I think a lot of guys live that way. They're like, well, I don't have what they have. Or if somebody is blessed, or somebody does get an opportunity, then they feel like more for them is less. For more for that person is less for them. And that's just not true in the kingdom of God.
Everybody has significance and purpose. And praise God for that, that we don't have to live insecure. or focused on other people. We can look. at what God has for us.
Yep, good word. We can be whom God wants us to be, and it's not necessarily like everybody else. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's a key for guys being lion-hearted, honestly.
Like, what does that mean to be lion-hearted?
Well, it starts once again connecting with. your purpose that God has put on your life. and not living in comparison. This is the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast.
Our guests are pastors, brothers, and co-authors of our featured resource, David and Brandon Lindell. Their book is titled Lionhearted, A Man's Guide to Living Focused, Fulfilled, and Fearless. Find out more at fivelovelanguages.com, just go to fivelovelanguages.com. David and Brandon, you say that a steady diet of distraction. can really affect the heart.
What do you mean by that? And can you give us some examples? Absolutely. Well, I mean, distraction is a killer for any guy who lets. that rule their life.
We really believe that guys do that. Win once again, they don't feel. Like things are necessarily going well. Maybe they're not hitting. Uh, goals in their career, like they thought maybe their marriage isn't good or their relationships in general.
Just aren't. Aren't going well, and they look at their life and they're like, Man, I don't want to deal. With this right now, or I don't feel like I have the capacity to deal with it. And so they find themselves going towards distraction. And that.
That can be as simple as living on social media and kind of doom scrolling your life away. Or they can find themselves burying themselves in what, you know, honestly, for guys, work can be a distraction. From the problems that they need to fix or face in order to be healthy and have healthy relationships and be an iron-hearted man, they're just like. Throwing themselves into project after project. And really, they would call it like, well, I have to do this because.
You know, if I don't do it, you know, it doesn't get done, you know, or they're relying on me at work. But what they're, If they were really getting to the core of what's going on, they're filling their life up. With busyness, in order to not face the things that they need to face, in order to. you know, really lead and be the healthy man of God and have a healthy home. I think that oftentimes happens in marriages where it's just not going well because they don't want to face it.
And all that comes down to distraction. And distraction is sometimes the path of least resistance for men, where they're like, rather than deal with the problem, do the hard conversation. you know, make that hard decision. they're going to live in distraction and in that way put it off. And that's a dangerous place for somebody to live.
David referenced that scripture: the righteous. are as bold as a lion. when you're running from problems. And you're running from things that are damaging your life, or even just hard things. It may not.
Like a hard conversation where you're like, I made a mistake and Some guy out there doesn't want to tell his wife, like, hey, this was a mistake I made.
So he runs from that problem. And then, whenever it pings him, he distracts himself. It not only brings damage to your own life, but it brings damage to the people around you. The righteous are as bold as a lion, meaning godly men. Face problems.
Once again, doesn't mean they have all the answers, but they understand as they face the problems and they pray, God is going to help them. They are not going to live their life just filling it up. with stuff. filling it up with purposeless things or distracting things. They're going to say, you know what?
God's called me to lead. God's called me to build. God's called me to be a part. And so, whether that's, hey, I mean, I need to engage my teenage son or daughter, or I need to get counseling with my wife, or I need to. You know, be a little less focused on my career and focus a little bit on these relationships or my own spiritual health.
All those things that intentionality is powerful. And it starts with somebody saying, literally, like, okay, I think I'm one of those people right now who's living distracted. Because I don't want to face some things, and I'm going to stop living by the path of least resistance, and I'm going to start pursuing who God's called me to be. There's a concept uh you talk about in the book called pre-decisions. Talk about that and share why it's important.
Yeah, absolutely. And it really fits perfectly with what Brandon was just saying because. It requires an intentionality for any guy who's going to step. Out of the realm of distraction and putting things off and not doing the hard thing. If you will establish in your life some.
I think you could almost call them non-negotiables. This is the kind of person I am, and therefore, these are the kind of decisions that a person like that makes.
So, I am a man after, my name is David. I'm a man after God's own heart. I'm deciding that that's the way I'm going to live, not just because my name is David and I'm named after the biblical figure David, but because that's who I. Feel God has called me to be. It's actually who God has called every man to be.
But I I'm going to now make some decisions based on that reality about who I am. What would a man after God's own heart do?
Well, a man after God's own heart would want to be in God's Word daily.
So, I don't get up in the morning and go, Am I going to read the Bible today? No, I get up in the morning and go, This is the first thing I'm going to do. The first thing I'm going to do is before I go to the phone or before I go to my news or email, I'm going to get in God's word. Because I have predecided that's the kind of person I am. And because that's the kind of person I am.
That's what I do. I don't decide day in and day out if that's going to happen or not. I do it. I don't decide if I'm going to be kind and Tenderhearted toward my wife.
Well, that's what the Bible calls us to lay down our lives. For our spouses, for our wives, as Christ laid down his life for the church. I've already decided how I'm going to treat her. In specific situations, or in every situation, but I'm gonna, it's gonna guide how I then respond to certain conversations. Or certain opportunities.
I have the opportunity to do what the Bible calls me to do.
So I'm not deciding today if we're going to have, you know, if I'm gonna be a servant to her. No, I've already decided that.
So I think I would say to every guy, you should make a list. Here's the kind of man I want to be. Here's the kind of pick a person you admire. Say, here's what I see in their life.
Now, assign a decision to each one of those things. Don't make it complicated. I think one, you know, hey, I want to be a person who loves God.
Well, what does a person who loves God do?
Well, they're in God's word. They spend time in prayer. They love the things that he loves.
So they go to church.
So those are just three decisions you can make right now. I don't decide week in and week out if I'm going to go to church. And you're like, well, you're a pastor. You have to go. But I go because I love the Lord and I want to be in his house.
I want to be with his people. I don't go because I get a, it's my job or I get a paycheck like to do that. I go because that's who I am. I'm part of the family of God. And so I think for men, Too many guys.
Are deciding day in and day out. They're redeciding instead of pre-deciding. They're redeciding if they're going to live a lion-hearted life, and they need to pre-decide. No, this is the person God has called me to be. This is the man God has called me to be, and therefore.
I'm already doing these things. The decision has been made. And not only do I not have to waste the energy. to redecide. But I also am living not out of how I feel, but out of the conviction regarding who I am.
And that is a game changer in the life of any man. Yeah, I think it's cool how David brought up, you know, you bring a pastor, you know, it's like, well, you guys are pastors, so you have to go, you know, to church, you have to do certain things. But the decision has been made. And The real decision is, hey, yeah, I go. But I'm not just going.
I've made the decision that I'm going to engage. I made the decision that I'm not going to just go through the motions. And we've all seen people that are in some position that goes through the motions, and that's a horrible place to be.
So, some guy could be listening to this, be like, Well, I go to church, but have you made a decision that, like, where your heart is when you're there, that you're going to be a worshiper, that you're going to be an example to your wife and your kids on what it means to actually love God? That's where the power is. It's in making those decisions and then doing them with all your heart. And so that's what I love what David's saying: that intentional decision. You don't, if you try to wake up every day and be like, well, what am I going to do today?
Or am I going to do it? Am I going to not? There's no power in that, but when you wake up every day saying that decision's already made for me. And I'm going to do it with all my heart. I'm not just going to go through the motions.
It really is life-changing. If every man made a few of those kind of decisions, they would be on the right track, for sure. Yeah, so true. David and Brandon, you want to help men move from uncertainty to discover the future they desire. What are some practical steps men can take to start that journey?
Well, I think A really good exercise for every guy is to kind of look down the corridor. Nobody knows what tomorrow holds, but. You can, as we've talked about already, you can start making decisions that will. dictate The next step you take. And what we, you know, going back to the epicenter of the book that we wrote, the epicenter is this statement from Solomon.
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit from Proverbs 4:23, that says, Above all else, guard your heart because everything you do. Flows from it. And it's interesting when we dove into the Hebrew in this verse. One of the terms that Solomon uses is totsa oat, and it's a cartography term, it's a map term. And the significance of that is that Solomon is essentially alluding to the fact.
That's what happens in your heart determines the borders of your life.
So, you know what? The only way to enlarge the borders of your life. is to allow your heart to be shaped. by the Holy Spirit. Through the direction of the Holy Spirit.
And that changes your future. You literally. Partner with the Holy Spirit in shaping the future in front of you. God knows, God is sovereign. He knows what He's called you to do, created you to do.
He knows what tomorrow holds, and a thousand days from tomorrow holds. You don't know that.
However, you do know there's dreams God has put in your heart. There's passions God has put in your heart. There's desires God has put in your heart. There's gifts that He's given you. And Probably at the core of your being, you understand that those are very much connected to the future purpose on your life.
And so I remember even going all the way back into like high school. This is one of the things our dad did so well. is that he called out the gifts that were in us. He saw them, he spoke to them, and then he encouraged us by asking us questions about what we were gonna do with them. And so I would say for the guy who maybe hasn't had that.
What are the gifts God has given you? What do you find that you're naturally good at? What do you incline toward? And then, Have you? Said, okay, God, in your power, I'm going to put that gift to use for your glory, and I'm going to head that direction.
And I'm going to now position my heart to be. Responsive to you, to be ready to hear your voice, sensitive to what you would speak to me regarding the steps you want me to take to get where you want me to go. All of that now determines what is gonna happen in the days ahead. You know, it's very popular to talk about like you in five years or you in 10 years. What is that?
You know what? And I don't have a lot of control over that. Actually, almost. A very very little.
However, I do have control over what I feed into my heart, what I feed on, what do I allow in my heart. And that will be the biggest determining factor for any man listening to this. What you allow to shape your heart and how intentional you are. Yeah. In intaking or digesting things that feed a godly heart, well, that will, as Solomon said, determine the borders.
It will enlarge the borders of your life, and that will directly impact. your future.
So if you want a big life, You don't want a God-shaped life?
Well, then you ought to start at the epicenter of you. in the epicenter of the w of you. The core of who you are is the heart. And so invest in your heart. Do things that enlarge your heart make you.
pull your heart Godward when you do that, well, that'll change everything about your future.
Well, we're talking straight to men today, but what about the wife who's listening today and who really wants to help her husband have a lion heart? Yeah. What is to be her approach? That is a good question. And.
Obviously, you know, for every wife listening who would resonate with that question, the first thing we would want to do is encourage them, no matter what. Your marriage looks like her. You're currently, you're like, man, my husband looks the opposite of lionhearted, that God can do anything, you know, and he can work in any situation. And so I'd say, starting off with prayer. is always a good place to go because God is a God who does supernatural things, and praying for your husband and for your family is a great start.
And if you're not doing that, then everything else I would tell you after that phrase will have less power and impact. But then after that, You know, oftentimes when If you're a wife listening to this and you're looking at your husband and being like, man, he is. He's not where he needs to be and I wouldn't describe him as lion-hearted. you can tend to focus on the negative. And when you do that.
uh what you focus on Often comes out of your mouth, and so you're you find yourself telling your husband, you should be more. X, you know, you should be, you should do more of this, or, you know, why are you know, why aren't you like that? I wish I could depend on you, phrases like that. Are not only super demotivating for men, but also they don't foster any kind of relationship. And desire on your husband's part.
to be better.
So the best thing you can do. is find even the smallest area. Where you're like.
Well, that is good, you know. And thank the Lord for it, but then call those things out in your husband. Say, you know what? I'm not going to focus on the negative, I'm going to focus on the things that he's doing well or doing right.
So he may not be reading his Bible the other day. He might every day he might not be praying. But he may be like, you know, he may have gone to church last Sunday with you, and just you just say, hey, I love how you Go to church with your family. It just. I just love that about you.
And that may be all that you can find, or it may, you may be like, well, he didn't even go to church. But you know, he might have prayed for the meal and be like, hey, thanks for leading our family by praying for the meal. And you're like, really? Like, I'm gonna call that lionhearted. Hey, it's a start, and what you encourage and celebrate.
he'll want to cultivate in his life, whether he indicates that to you or not. As you call those things out, that you're like, hey, I see that, or hey, maybe he's good with the finances. He might be not really open emotionally at this time, but he's, you know, he's taking care of the family financially. You say, thank you for taking care of us as a family. I really respect that.
I mean, those words to a guy, hey, you're dependable. I respect this about you. You know, it's just like water to his soul. And I'm telling you, what that does is it doesn't change. Him in a day, or the situation in a day.
But it opens the door for conversations. And that's where, in those conversations, you know, as you're talking about what could be better in your marriage or whatever, as long as you're not. demanding And you're not just pointing out everything he's doing wrong, but you're celebrating, you're listening, and then you can encourage, like, hey, I think it might be good if we got counseling together. Or, you know, I would really love to drive to church together. What you're doing is, you're not putting it all on him.
But you'll watch as you are celebrating those things. He he wants to impress you. He wants to feel dependable to you. He wants to be respected by you. And if you're waiting for the day when everything.
About him is something you respect to give him.
Some of that respect, or to say some words of affirmation, you might be waiting forever. But if you say, God, help me to see the things that I can celebrate, help me to see the things I can call, it really will be the start of a great journey. And then, as you're praying, God will do miraculous things in your marriage. God has his hand on your husband's life, whether you see it all the time or not. And you want to see through God's lens and God's perspective because that's when it's powerful and you can actually speak life.
Yeah, so true. Good advice to wives. Always better to see something positive and affirm it rather than the criticize. Good word. Good word.
As we come toward the end of our time, let me ask this question. What are the benefits to the children of a lion-hearted man? Wow, that is such a great question. I would say, I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but I don't think you can. I think they're innumerable.
And I'll just name a few, but we live in a world where sadly, A lot of dads are just not dependable. or they're aloof and they're distant. The statistics bear it out that of developed nations, the United States leads the world in fatherlessness. Or fatherless homes. And so, I mean, And this is not just a problem in the United States, it's a global reality.
And so when a guy says, Hey, you know what? I'm going to live life. I'm going to live different. You know, maybe they've come from generations of brokenness. And they say, you know what, I'm going to flip the script by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I'm going to do things differently. You know, my dad was abusive, or my dad was, you know, constantly tore us down, or my because all of us can name, even if you had the best dad in the world, he was still a human being.
So all of us can name the deficiencies of our earthly fathers. But when you say I'm gonna do things differently, and particularly, I'm going to guard my heart because it's gonna change everything about my life. One of the things that it will primarily change is the culture of your home. It'll change the way that you, as Brandon already alluded to, it'll change the dynamics in your marriage. And whether that's the wife listening to this and calling out those lion-hearted attributes in her husband, or the husband getting proactive and getting intentional, well, that dynamic creates.
healthier relationship. On the marriage side, and the kids are the primary beneficiaries of that, but then. It's a level of intentionality because, really, the book is about intentionality and purpose, and that moving toward what God has called and created you to be and do. And when a kid sees that, I know specifically, I've got three sons and one daughter. But They are so um they are so moved.
by the things that I'm passionate about. Like, if I'm passionate about something, it's almost a guarantee they're going to be passionate about it. And especially in those early years. Because they're so um Moldable. And so, you know, all of us know this.
But your kids will do what you do. Your kids will like what you like. And now that starts to, there starts to be some divergence in that, you know, for in the teenage years a little bit. But honestly, if you will invest very strategically And live lion-hearted, especially when they're young. that divergence in their teenage years will shrink dramatically.
And you'll see them begin to grow into their own expression. Of the things that you cultivated, that you modeled. And so I think this whole idea of Of living the lion-hearted life is also it's just setting a precedent in your home. It's setting a precedent with your kids: of like, this is how life is lived at its best. Life is lived at its best from the inside out, life is lived at its best with predecisions toward godliness.
Life is lived at its best when you prioritize the way that you care for one another, and you're not just living for you, you're not just running from hard things, you're stepping into challenge.
Well, your kids see that. And now you're modeling something that 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, is gonna pay massive dividends in their life. Oh my goodness. And the proverbs say: a wise man or a good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children, and the greatest inheritance. Any guy listening to this conversation can leave his children's children.
is a legacy of lionheartedness. If you will embrace with intentionality. The calling and purpose on your life. Oh my goodness, what God will do with that. And here's the thing: it'll affect everything.
So you'll bless them in a thousand ways. but the epicenter of the inheritance you leave them Will be a pattern of life modeled after the Lord Jesus Christ that allows them, whatever God's calling and assignment is for their life, it'll allow them to step into that with a confidence. That God is going to go before them, and what they've seen Him do in you. He can do in them. And he will do in them.
And that's powerful. Absolutely. Well, Brandon and David, I want to thank you for being with us today on Building Relationships and also for investing time in writing this book. And I hope that our listeners will not only get a copy, but if they're men who are in a men's group, can I just encourage you, this would be a book you can study together as a group of men. I just thank you for the time you've invested in it, and I pray that God will continue to use each of you in your ministry.
Well, thank you so much. I mean, this was a huge privilege. We absolutely loved it. We are honored to be a part of it, and what a joy to talk with you today. And our hope is that today's conversation has given you a vision for living fearlessly.
If you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see that featured resource, Lionhearted. A man's guide to living focused, fulfilled, and fearless. It's by our guests, David and Brandon Lindell. Just go to buildingrelationships.us. And next week...
How to raise gender-confident children in a confused generation. Don't miss the practical and encouraging conversation in one week. Before we go, let me thank our production team Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers.
A ministry at Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
