The Hospitality of Need | Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton

Well, what can happen when we invite others into our lives, hardships and all? It helped me understand what Jesus was doing in these moments, you know, when he asked for people to serve him. We just want people to fall in love more and more with Jesus through the stories in this book and through what they experience as they try. this approach to life. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Our guests today believe that too often our needs are perceived as either burdens to shamefully hide or idols before which everything else must bow. Our featured resource today is the Hospitality of Need. You can find out more at buildingrelationships.us. Kevin Chandler and Tommy Shelton will join us straight ahead.

The subtitle of the book says it all. how depending on one another helps us heal and grow together. And Gary, I think you've probably seen this at work in your ministry through the years, am I right?

Well, that's for sure, Chris. You know, Christian life was not designed to be lived in isolation. We're part of a family. And any emphasis that we can make in that area is certainly important today. And more important today, I think, than even 30 years ago.

So I'm really excited about our discussion today. I think this is going to be a conversation and a book that's going to help lots of people. I do too. Let's meet our guests, Kevin Chandler. It's Kevin with an A, K-E-V-A-N.

Kevin is the founder of the nonprofit We Carry, Kevin, and he speaks worldwide about friendship and disability. He's married to Katie. His co-author of this book that we're featuring today is Tommy Shelton, who grew up the son of a pastor and is now a pastor himself. of Live Oaks Bible Church in Palm Harbor, Florida. He loves his wife and six children, and at buildingrelationships.us you'll see their book, The Hospitality of Need, How Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together.

Just go to buildingrelationships.us.

Well Kevin and Tommy, welcome to Building Relationships. Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's a pleasure.

Well, we're glad that you're with us today. Kevin, let me start with you. There's a backstory that led you to write a book like this. Tell us that backstory. Yeah, so in 2016, some friends and I.

uh went to Europe and um that doesn't Sound that crazy at first, but uh I grew up in a With a disability that puts me in a power wheelchair and I'm fully dependent. on others and so for us to go to Europe. Um we had to leave my wheelchair behind because everything we wanted to do was not accessible in the traditional sense. And so my friends took turns for three weeks carrying me on their backs and uh specially designed backpack and um I wrote a book about that experience and of Gotten to speak about it all over the world and share our story. But from there, a lot of people have asked.

Kind of a follow-up question. They they say, Well, How do you do this? How do you invite People into your life in this way. The short version is: where did you get these friends? And so I knew that that wasn't going to be a Five-step, you know, here's how you make friends kind of book.

It's not exactly a Peanut butter and jelly sandwich, everyone's different, and everyone goes about this differently based on their. Own experience, but I knew that I could. share more of my story because it wasn't just those three weeks it's been now 39 years of life of inviting people into my need and having them come alongside me and I've gotten to see friendships. Go deep because of that need and asking people to be part of it. And so this book is really.

born out of that desire to share those stories and Really, going through the whole thing, my goal, my desire was to celebrate. The friendships and the friends that have made my life possible. Yeah.

Well, with that background, no question about it. You are qualified to write a book like this. Thank you. So, Tommy, tell us about your relationship with Kevin and what he means to you.

Well, yes, sir. For as long as I've known Kevin, I would have called him a friend. We met when I was 16 or 17 in Winston-Salem. His mother was a part of a little drama organization, part of the Salem Pregnancy Support Center. And we would go around to schools and do these abstinence plays and things.

So when I'm 16, I meet Kevin, this little awesome dude, you know, kind of wheeling around. And my friend of mine and I had a radio show in town.

So I've always known, I mean, it's what, I'm 47.

So go back. 30 years, and I've known Kevin. But in these last few years, this amazing thing happened. And God's sovereign plan, of course, is always so far ahead of ours and beyond our comprehension. But I had all these prayers about the kind of disciple of Jesus I wanted to be, the kind of pastor I wanted to be.

My father's a pastor, just an amazing, humble shepherding pastor. And I knew who I wanted to be. And then Kevin, we stayed in touch and we got a little closer. But when he invited me into writing this book with him, he really went from like buddy to friend and now really brother. And I don't say that.

Lightly, and I can see God's hand actually through Kevin and through the opportunity of writing this book, really answering a lot of those prayers for my own life. And because it wasn't just a remote, you know, word writing gig that Kevin invited me into. I had little idea of what he actually was inviting me into and writing this book because we got to spend time together and travel together. And the opportunity to help Kevin and all of his physical needs was a real integral part of even the process of writing the book.

So, Kevin's a brother to me now, and it's like the damage has been done. Can't go back now.

So, we are, regardless of what happens with this book, we are brothers really knitted together by the sovereignty of God.

So, Yeah, what what doesn't my relationship with Kevin mean now? Yeah, that's great. That is great. Where did the title come from? And what is the significance of the title?

You know, this was actually even back before Tommy was part of the book, I think, by the time. By the time he came into it. We had the title in place and um I think that probably helped some, but I was wrestling with what the book would look like. I had these stories but I didn't really have a a focal point so much and I was part of a A men's group I had shared my Testimony one week, and in that group, after someone shows their testimony, the men gather around and pray over that person and And in that prayer time, Uh a friend of mine I thanked God for blessing me with the gift of the hospitality of need. And I didn't really know what that meant, but I thought it was a An interesting phrase and uh the next few weeks I Kind of sat on that idea of the hospitality of need.

And I have different guys come every morning to get me up and We get to have some interesting conversations. And so I... started asking them what it meant to them and through that Uh we just really realized that there is an aspect A character of Hospitality that can be found in our needs if we look for it. There's an an opportunity to step into something together. Through our means.

That was where the title came from, and it really took off from there. Yeah.

Well, I really like the title. I think it's very appropriate. The Hospitality of Need. how depending on one another helps us heal and grow together. We actually wrestled with the title a little bit, just some feedback that we got from people that weren't immediately familiar with the whole point of the book.

We're saying, yeah, I don't know, that title is a little confusing.

So we took an honest look at it and we tried, I don't know, Kevin, a hundred different possible titles. And we just, this is what the book has to be called. Whether it jumps off the shelf or not, it just has to be called this. Yeah.

Kevin, what does your everyday life look like in the context of this book? You know, I mentioned earlier that I'm in a power wheelchair. I require a lot of help with everyday things, basically anything that Involves weight bearing, so using the restroom or getting dressed or showering um Cutting up food, sometimes eating if my arms are tired. I you know, getting a book off the shelf and Getting it cracked open to read, and uh, and so there's not a moment that goes by in the day where I I'm independent really and um So what that looks like. It's looked like different things in different seasons of life, but Uh now being married, it what it looks like is that um We have a a different friend come over each morning to get me out of bed, get ready for the day, and then my wife.

helps out throughout the day with caregiving if I need a restroom break or Something like that. And then whenever we travel to speak. We sometimes take someone with us like Tommy. We've gone on some road trips together to For him to help with my caregiving. And so that's kind of what it looks like from the the bird's eye view, the 30,000 foot view, but um what it looks like.

more intimately is that I get to spend each morning with a different guy that I And I get to have this hour and a half, two hours of quality time. getting to hear about their life, them getting to hear about mine. I don't really connecting. Uh in a way that I don't think a lot of guys get to experience, you know. Most of us usually have one or two of those kinds of friends and Um because of my need, the Lord is Blessed me with 10 or 12 of those relationships.

And so that's been really. a profound thing and then uh again my wife and I Because of my need, we get these touch points throughout the day where we really get to have this quiet, you know, eye to eye. moment that um I think is strengthened and deepened our our marriage in profound ways and just a short amount of time. Yeah.

Well, I think there's no question about it. There are many men in our country. who have no friends. I mean, no one really close to them. I remember I was uh writing a book on friendship.

a cross-cultural friendship. And uh I saw a man in the uh uh restaurant uh eating by himself and looked like a businessman who had a suit on and I said I walked up to him, I said, Excuse me, I said, I'm doing some research on cross-cultural friendships I said, um could I ask you a personal question? He said, sure. I said, do you have a a a close personal friend of a different race or culture? He thought a moment, and he said, I don't have a friend of my own in my own race and culture.

And I think what his answer If many men were honest, they would say what he said. I don't have a friend like that.

So Uh that's amazing. You know, the author of Every Moment Holy writes this in the foreword of your book. I'm quoting here. Community is what happens when we move toward need. toward weakness.

toward brokenness. or when we allow others to move toward our need, Our weakness and our brokenness. Explain that. Yeah, I I'm really thankful to Doug for writing that forward, and I feel like it's a great ushering into. The idea of the rest of the book.

And in that forward, he talks about his own experience of really trying to intentionally build community. through getting a small group together for dinner once a week, you know, kind of a social thing. And um And after a while it kind of petered out and they realized it it wasn't working and they couldn't figure out why and then to juxtapose that he went to visit a family Whose son had been in an accident and was severely disabled, and the church. I'd come around this family and it was everything from someone building You know, medical equipment that they couldn't afford.

Someone in the church saying, Well, I think I could build that and. Set it up in your garage. Everything from that to people dropping off groceries or just coming to sit with the sign and Keep him company, and this wasn't. Just for a few weeks. This was years after the accident.

And Doug got to experience what. Real community looked like. And he realized that it came out of not a social gathering, but out of getting into those trenches or inviting people into your trenches and really stepping into others. Weaknesses and needs and brokenness, as you said, and that's where. the real connection happens and And it's a really beautiful thing.

Yeah, you know, I think many people are Willing. If they see a need, they're willing to step into it, but sometimes they're unaware of the need, and that's where the person who has the need. has to take the initiative sometimes to invite people, open the door into their lives. In the book, you go back and forth between personal stories and a kind of biblical commentary. What was the thought process behind this?

Tommy and I had this conversation. the other day and I I shared with him a an aspect that I had all these stories from my own life of seeing How need could be an opportunity for depth and growth in relationship, and I wanted to also show. how we see Jesus using his human need to care for others and yet really. I invited Tommy in. Because I knew that he would be good at sharing those aspects, but also I felt weird about.

sharing it myself because then it might sound like, here's my story and here's Jesus's and we're we're I'm trying to be like Jesus, but we're not the same.

So but um but yeah, I I'd love to hear Tommy's thoughts on on the biblical side of it as well. Yeah, so in the macro, like in the wider view, and I can be a bit of an overthinker, and certainly I can be a bit of an over-talker. But here's one of the parts that really delightfully surprised me in agreeing to take part in writing the book. And at first, it was like, oh, do some Bible commentary.

Well, you know, I've been preaching for a couple of decades now. I can certainly do this. I was really surprised by how difficult it was going to end up being in expositing. From the life of Jesus, this idea, but in the big picture, in the macro, what I've loved so much is that I really have a lot of, as the youngsters would say, a lot of ick about the prosperity gospel, and that can take a lot of forms, not just money and health. But I find a lot of the preaching, a lot of the teaching, almost like the heartbeat of the church right now in America, especially, is here's how the gospel can make you better, can make you more independent, can make you more successful.

And it's All about, I'm worried the definition is: here's how you can not need anybody. Here's how you can best be an absolute island unto yourself. But we always say no man is an island. But if all the teaching is here's how to be a great island, that doesn't make any sense.

So, just in the big picture and looking at the witness of especially the New Testament. New Testament Christians living life with one another, and it's a buzzword in the church, you know, living life together. But if it's just, you know Take your independent life and purposely live independently next to someone else's independence. I just don't think we're getting there.

So then you look at the life of Jesus and if certainly If any human being didn't need anyone else, it would have been Jesus, considering his miraculous divinity simultaneous to his total humanity. But yet he chose to.

So we looked in the Gospels and go, okay, where did Jesus purposely choose to? Use his physical human needs to meet those physical human needs. He invited other people into it. And it just became this beautiful picture that I'm like, how did we miss this? How do we not see this?

How is this not obvious that we are truly to not just be willing to enter into other people's needs, but be willing to be the need? You know, be willing to be the weak one, as Doug said in the forward. Like, are we willing to be the weak one? Uh Tommy, yeah, you get Respond to that whole concept of illustrations of how you see this in the life of Jesus. Mm-hmm.

Well, so that was the real loop that this threw me for. I thought it was going to be easy. It's like, great, I've preached to the gospels before, this is going to be fine. But that core idea Was so much more profound than I thought. How did Jesus use his needs?

But it's like, it's a sense that's easy to say, but then you go, wait a second. He is God, and Like he he is truly man and truly god and it's a mystery that You know. Only eternity in his presence could help us understand. But he is God, and by nature, God doesn't have any needs. Like, it's part of what makes him God is that he is utterly complete in of himself.

So, when I actually pause for a moment and go like, oh, oh, you know, in literally, oh, Lord, like, how. How is it that you had a need? And at first I thought it was like, oh, he didn't have to need, but he chose to need. But if he chose to need according to the Father's plan, if the Father has sovereignly decreed that something would be, then that almost makes it a need.

So anyway, I spun out for a little while and Kevin had to talk me down. I had to burn a lot of words that got cut out of the book to try to dial in my own mind, my own heart to the idea. But if again, just like Jesus, if you just humble yourself and ask the Holy Spirit to kind of guide you into this moment with the word of God, you know, Directing every step, Jesus asked a woman at the well, give me a drink. He was thirsty. It wasn't just, he didn't fake his thirst.

It wasn't like, oh, this will make a convenient object lesson. Like he literally was a human man with an actual. thirst for water and he asks someone else. to provide him one. And so just to see The tenderness of Jesus and the humility of Jesus.

And it's in that chapter with the woman at the well. He humbled himself beneath her in a way. You know, to ask somebody else to serve you is a If it's not a hoity, prideful thing, it is a very beautiful thing. And again, and Kevin, I'm not trying to. Lift you out of your chair with a helium-filled head.

But, like, this is just part of the love that you gave me was the tenderness with which you, and the boldness with which, hey, can you, Tommy, can you help me take a shower? It's like, oh. Oh, okay. Oh, we're doing this. Sure.

But it's almost like I can't share with everybody the experience of serving Kevin the way I have, in the little bits that I have been able to. But it was very Christ-like, and it helped me understand what Jesus was doing in these moments when he asks. For For help, you know, when he asks for people to essentially serve him, yeah, absolutely. We also notice that in scripture and and I've wrestled with this for a long time. stepping into this book.

is that we see Jesus, we see Paul, John, Peter, we see all of them throughout the New Testament. saying put others before yourself and Put the needs of others, prefer yourself, consider others. More important than yourself than be a servant to others. And it never says put others before yourself unless. your need is greater.

And I never knew what to do with that as a you know, 85 pound kid and a Yeah. needed help with the restroom. Like I what what do I do with that? And um And so that kind of, I think, sparked the Deep dive into okay, well, let's look at the life of Christ. Let's look at how he handled things when he had Thirst, when he had hunger, when he When his feet were dirty, he and I, like, how did he respond?

And he. He used those opportunities to uh serve others. In 2 Corinthians, I think it's 12:9, like his strength is made perfect in weakness. Like, you can examine that in the Greek, or you can. Help someone.

And you can see what the Lord does with that. What the Lord does with a need and a need meter, you know, like a servant and someone who needs serving. You can actually see the truth of that verse. Just fly off the page. The fellowship with the Lord that Kevin and I have had in writing this book.

Bathroom breaks included, has really been the beauty of it that I wish I could share with everybody. Yeah.

This is the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast. Kevin Chandler and Tommy Shelton are joining us. They're the authors of our featured resource, the book The Hospitality of Need. how depending on one another helps us heal and grow together.

Find out more at fivelovelanguages.com. Just go to fivelovelanguages.com. Tommy and Kevin, I'd like for each of you to answer this question. As you have worked through this idea of hospitality of need, How has it impacted your own relationships with the Lord as well as with other people? Mm.

I think for me A lot of it has been Putting terminology and bringing focus to Something that I was living out, but with those terms and with that focus it I I can hopefully live it out better. You know, if if you were to ask me 10 years ago, how I care for those who can take care of me. I may not have even been aware of it, even though I Through God's grace, I was and And so I I think now having Spent, gosh, four or five years working through this idea. for this book. It helped me to recognize You know, the hospitality in need.

And I guess to tweak that a bit, it's not. Uh this idea that I'm Well, my friend is taking care of me, so I have to do something to take care of him. There's an aspect of that that I have a responsibility to care for him, but it's really that. even in spite of myself and in spite of him. Needer.

If we step into it together. we can find something beautiful. And so it's been a really great experience for me to To grow in that and as as I've been writing the book, as Tommy and I have worked on this over the past few years. the friends who are talked about in the book. I have We've gotten to be part of those conversations.

Even the writing of the book has. sent those friendships deeper. which is a really wonderful thing. And so I think The same thing with the Lord as as we've worked through these ideas. It's just Deepened my love and gratitude for who the Lord is and.

How he carries me, how he steps into my need, and how he says. I you know, I was reading yesterday and John 14, when it says that he goes to prepare a place. For you where I'm going. you will also be and so it's a the idea that he wants us with him And he wants to be with us. It's just really.

Wonderful. Amen. I had a pastoral mentor, a mentor, who was not a very, he was not very good at it, but he said to me one time, he said, Tommy, you have amazing strengths, but you also have profound weaknesses. And until you fix those weaknesses, you will never do much in God's kingdom. You know, he said, and I want the best for you.

So I just, you need to fix these problems. And, you know, I've hung with that for years. And he's not. Wrong.

Well, he's not wrong in the assessment of me, but I think he was wrong in the. In the solution to that. And of course, in writing this book, the Lord's really done a number on me, especially when you're the one invited into something. Kevin says, Hey, Tommy, help me write this book. You're like, Well, of course I can.

Thank you, Kevin, for recognizing that I am indeed the man to do this. And, you know, Kevin is quote unquote the profoundly handicapped one. But in this context, the context that he invited me into, I realized in very short order that, no, I was the handicapped one, and he was the eminently capable one. And he's carrying me through this while I help him. And then this friendship grows in the midst of it.

So I'm just imagining this as just as a model or in any context. And so you take it with a husband and a wife. Is it really the goal of the husband, the wife? The wife's over here. She's fixing all of her problems by herself.

And the husband's over here fixing all his problems by himself so they can come together and be. A better married couple. I just don't think that's the way the kingdom works. I don't think that's the way the Holy Spirit works in and among people.

So, this word interdependence is so important in the subtitle of the book because we're not talking about codependency. We're not talking about broken people huddling together and reveling in all of their weaknesses. We're talking about being willing to be interdependent. Like, I lean on you, you lean on me, you know, like the song. We could play that in this kingdom context.

It's so beautiful because all of our pride gets to. We get damage done to all of our pride, you know, like in humility, we actually see all of us being raised and lifted up into it.

So, yeah, I've applied lessons of writing this book to my immediate, you know, my marriage and my relationship with my children, but also with my church. That same brilliant pastoral mentor told me not to be vulnerable in the pulpit because the congregation needs someone to look up to, to admire, and try to be like. And I'm like, well, goodness, like, for the glory of God, if the sanctuary of grace, as it were, is not the place to be vulnerable and say, I have these needs that I just can't seem to overcome. Maybe those are your strengths and maybe we can depend on one another. I mean, it almost sounds like a little too sing-song-y, you know, kind of hippie, but it just seems to be the truth of the gospel played out in real relationships with people if we allow it, you know, if we lower our pride and look to Jesus.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I've always felt that If a pastor or any Christian speaker is open about their own struggles, people are far more likely to listen to what they have to say. If we're just giving platitudes, you know, they're thinking, oh yeah, but he doesn't know my situation, you know.

So yeah, that's a huge lesson for all of us. Let me ask this, what's the difference between asking for help and inviting people into your need. Mm. I mean, it it's definitely a fine line, isn't it? 'Cause you may Literally, and you know, be asking for help, but it's really about the posture.

It's about your. Approach to this situation. There's a chapter in the book that talks about. there there are two drop-offs that are Culture typically falls into. One is seeing your need as a burden that you're ashamed of.

or seeing your mute as an idol, making it an idol or someone else's need. making it an idol that the whole world should revolve around. We we felt like there was a need to Clarify. you know, anyone can ask for help. But to invite someone into your need is a a shoulder to shoulder approach.

It's saying, hey, how about you and I uh attack this together. And how about we be in this together and it's more of a Relationship and less of a transaction.

So, yeah, it's subtle, but I think it's important. You certainly found that to be true, Tommy, when you were working together on this project, right? Indeed, very much so. You know, Kevin, you quote Henry Nouwen from his book entitled The Wounded Healer. And he said that hospitality creates, and I'm quoting here, an empty space where the guest can find his own soul.

Speak to that. Yeah.

Yeah, um this was a quote that really hung with me and haunted me. working on the book and um I had the title in place and had not gotten to bring Tommy in yet. had a stack of books that talked about hospitality and And then another stack of books about caring for others and was trying to Engage all of these ideas, and this quote really stuck out to me because. Um again, if we look at need as the hospitable thing as the the opportunity then we realize that the place is not necessarily a physical space for uh relationship. It's a relational situation that Uh we can Yeah, quote unquote, find our souls in together, we can be made whole.

And Paul talks about realizing the hope that we have been called to and the riches of the inheritance of the saints and living in the very power that raised Christ from the dead. All of that is what I think of when I think of a guest. Finding his own soul. And so there's a lot of talk in the book about how. the lines blur between guest and host and When we think of hosting someone we we in our minds and through our actions, we might say, come into my home, come into my space and Give me your time and your attention for your sake.

um so that I can care for you. And then when we think of inviting someone into our need or asking for help. that flips and we say, Come into my space. Give me your time and your attention for my sake. I really feel like Maybe those two should actually come together.

And we should say, well, you're coming in to care for me. Um maybe it can be for your sake also. Yeah.

Well, Tommy, it can be a two-way street for sure, right? when you're inviting others into your need. Oh, absolutely. I hope that this analogy would be on the right track. But when I started at my church, the building itself needed a lot of work.

It had been kind of just by necessity. They just didn't have the funds to meet certain needs in the building. It needed a fresh lick of paint, and the carpets needed to be cleaned, and the windows needed to be opened, and the building needed to be aired out, and that kind of thing. And somebody donated some money. And so we were talking about the actual improvements that needed to be made to the building.

And thankfully, the heart of my elders was so humble and so pure, they were worried. They were kind of very cautious.

Well, we don't, you know, we're not going to be one of those fancy churches. We don't want to be one of those fancy churches. And it got me thinking about the idea of guests walking into a space.

So you think about your own home. you know, where do you draw the line between showing off and wanting things to be nice? And it occurred to me that, yeah, if you invite someone over to your home for dinner, you want them to be blessed by walking through your door.

So, you know, you do want to attend things and you want things to be nice because you do want to be a blessing. You certainly don't want to make people feel uncomfortable. But when you buy the 85-inch screen, you know, rather than the perfectly adequate 65-inch screen, and you do that because, hey, they're going to be impressed by this. Like, won't they find this impressive?

So I said, that's our line. Like, even as a church, like, that's our line. We want people to be blessed and welcomed, not impressed.

So you take that to your relationships and your opportunities. You want your guests when you invite them into your situation and into your need, it's an opportunity, just like you know, the now-in-quote, just like Kevin has articulated already so beautifully. That's an opportunity not to impress somebody, you know, not to. Wow them or overwhelm them, but just step in, you know. How can I?

Be a good host, and then what happens is that relationship builds, and then you have the Opportunity to reciprocate, you know, then you're invited over to their home for dinner. Nobody's impressing anybody. We're just Here to serve one another and help lift up and raise one another. That's like the small example. And then, what happens when that small example is repeated hundreds, thousands, millions of times over the millennia?

We actually see the church. Being what God has declared the church to be, what Jesus has said the church was gonna be. And I think that change happens not with some big giant program, but just with genuine relationships anchored in the gospel, wanting to bless one another, wanting to serve one another.

So that's a lot of words. It's been part of the process of writing this book. It's like I can't stop the thoughts from spinning out of it. Yeah.

Well, we're talking about hospitality and tying it to need, the hospitality of need. Is hospitality, this attitude of reaching out to others and inviting others into your life, is this attitude caught? Or is it taught? That is, why is it some people seem to have the attitude of hospitality and others don't?

Well, hospitality, I'll just tell you, hospitality in every spiritual gift inventory I've ever done, hospitality either shows up as a one or a zero.

So it is not my natural proclivity. But I will say, as a pastor, every time that my wife and I have purposely taken the time, set out the evening and invited people over to our home for dinner, it has done nothing but bless us.

So we leave that going, why don't we do this all the time? This is like a miracle. Like we should be marked by this and we're not.

So I think because of the fall, because of our selfishness, it is not, I don't think, a natural proclivity. I think you raised it.

So is it nurture or nature? I think it's yes. And I think the more we practice it, the more it actually becomes part of our instinct and our nature. Is that true, Kevin? Yeah, I can't say it any better.

I think that's spot on.

Some people. Our You know, just naturally built to be more hospitable, and yet that doesn't mean. that we can't all grow in it, even the people who are more natural at it. Um the people who aren't and the people who are We can all Move in that direction because even when it's natural for you, I think it's still contrast to. The sinful nature and our humanity.

It's because hospitality is a Feature of God's character, right? And so. We can all catch it and we can learn and hone it. And honing it by dying to self. Right, taking up our cross daily.

And I mean, forgive me, but it's also like, I don't want to lose the point of it. Like, when we hear the word hospitality, we usually think of it in terms of like, you know, Entaman's cake and senka. Like, it's in the point of the book that the Lord led Kevin to in his own life is that it's not just about a home and a saucer of tea. Every aspect of your life can be seen as an opportunity for hospitality. You know, not just your living room, but.

your life itself. Yeah.

Well Kevin, in one of the chapters you talk about being a hospital. What's the similarity between a hospital and hospitality. Yeah, well uh there there's a chapter I mentioned earlier that talks about need and the pitfalls of seeing need in in the wrong context and then Following that, there's a chapter that really Defines the word hospitality more. We wanted to make sure we defined these terms that we were. Talking about so much in the book.

And so when I stepped into that chapter, I needed help on it. And one of the ways I needed help was that I. asked some friends who are Much more Adept at etymology than I am. They know how to research words and the history of words and History of cultures based on words and everything. And what they came back with was that a lot of interesting things, but the one for this purpose is that hospitality.

If you really want to Be specific, the definition should not be the state of being hospitable. Which is typically what we would think. Oh, hospitality, you're a hospitable person. Really the definition should be the state of being a hospital. And uh the old latin word for for hospital really implied more the character of a person and their actions and so That led me down the road of I'm thinking about the the parallels of hospitality of need and thinking of ourselves as A hospital, and there were three main things that came out of that for me.

One is And and these are in kind of the ideal World, in theory, hospitals are attentive. You know, you don't walk in and they say, Oh, I know what's wrong with you. There's a conversation. There's working together to get you back on the track. To healing, and there's a paying attention to what's wrong and a discovery built into that.

Secondly, hospitals. generally speaking, are generous. If somebody Flatlines, a hospital is going to do what they have to get that person back if they can. If there's an emergency surgery, That doctor is being flown in that night, you know, and um, people don't sit around. Again, theoretically don't sit around saying, well, What's this going to cost?

You know, we need to. Operate on him. in the next hour, but we need to run these numbers. It's it's there's a generosity in Taking care of the situation. And then, thirdly, and this one's kind of more practical.

hospitals have doors and so patients come into the hospital, but also Doctors and paramedics and ambulances go out. those doors to care for the patients outside and so With those doors, you could say that they're again, that line kind of flurries between patient and caregiver because they're both. Coming and going, the line blurs between host and guest. And so with that, Uh we have to ask ourselves When we're inviting people in or we're caring for others, stepping into their needs, are we being attentive? Are we being generous?

Are we recognizing the reciprocity in the relationship.

Well Those three characteristics of a hospital that's pretty powerful. I like that. If we all live with those three things as a daily way of life, It'd be powerful.

Well, as we come toward the end of our time together, Kevin and Tommy, let me ask this. How do you hope that readers are going to be challenged or encouraged by this book? My hope is that people would have the same kind of journey that I had, where if you look at Kevin and myself side by side and say, okay, who has the need? Most people would point to Kevin. The physical evidence seems rather obvious.

It's Kevin. He's in the chair. It's him. I want people to see the blessing of their own inadequacy. And much like the Celebrate Recovery, it's very beautiful.

It says everyone has hurts, habits, and hang-ups. I want everyone to be able to see that they have needs and those are not to be ashamed of or hidden or tried to cure before they announce that they've been healed from this deficiency. I want people to be able to just, under the grace of God, just go, yes, I have needs and the Lord has something for his kingdom and his church. Can you just lay these needs down as opportunities, lay them on an altar and invite people into it? I mean, I'm just profoundly in need and Kevin has been a help and a brother.

If that could just be duplicated over and over and over and over again as a model, I would just, I would love to see people's pride melt away and Jesus be exalted. Under this gracious canopy that he's given us to live under.

So just Lay down your own pride and not wallow or revel in your need, but see them as opportunities. That's what I want. Yeah, I would say the same. That people will be encouraged, that they. Uh their needs are not too much.

that they're they are loved and Encouraged and challenged to step out and invite people into. those needs and also to be aware and and keep an eye out for Needs around them, and through that. That the kingdom would come and the Lord's will be done. And we just want people to fall in love more and more with Jesus through the stories in this book and through. what they experience as they try these uh this approach to life.

Well, let me say that I have been encouraged by our conversation today about this book, and I know that those who read it are going to find that same encouragement. You know, we all encounter people with needs. We all have needs. And so reaching out and inviting people into our lives and reaching out to be involved in other people's lives is really crucial. It's the way of life.

You know, the scriptures say about Jesus, he went about doing good. This is following through with that model that we have in Christ.

So Kevin and Tommy, thank you for being with us today. And I hope that our listeners will get a copy of this book and will also pass it along to their friends. Thank you. Amen. Thank you.

What a powerful story today from Tommy and Kevin. And if you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see that featured resource, The Hospitality of Need, how Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together. Just go to buildingrelationships.us.

And next week, Conversation for Men. about becoming lion-hearted. Learn how to live focused, fulfilled, and fearless. Hear from David and Brandon Lindell in one week. Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing.

Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry at Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.