Joining us now, a man who has been doing incredible work behind the scenes and in front of the camera to make sure the world knows that Russia has to be stopped, Secretary General of NATO Stoltenberger joins us. Mr. Secretary, welcome back. Thanks so much for having me again. It's good to be back. Congratulations on your award, the Medal of Freedom. What was that like getting that? That was a great honor and a big surprise. For me, this is a recognition of the work the whole Alliance have done over the last years to ensure that we protect 1 billion people living in North America and Europe in a more dangerous world, not least against Russia, but also against throwing the increasing challenges that China is posing to our security.
We all saw around the world what was happening in front of the camera. Can you bring us behind the scenes? President Zelensky desperate to get the weapons he needs in a timely fashion to keep his country alive without restrictions. Word behind the scenes was they're pushing President Biden to allow them to blow up these weapons depots, the places where the Russians are attacking, even if it's inside Russia.
Did you guys make any progress convincing him? Why? That is in the short term. But what we have seen is unprecedented support from from European allies and the United States. We had some gaps and delays this winter. Now we have all stepped up and allies have also reduced the restrictions on the use of weapons against military targets on the territory of Russia.
That is also the case for United States. Some allies have no choice but to do so. So we are moving in the right direction with more weapons and also opening up for use to use those weapons against the Russian military targets.
Thanks to work for thanks to work for people like you. The president went from no high Mars to high Mars, no patriots to patriots. After two years, we're finally ready to get them F-16s. Now no attack them to getting attack them. Now to don't hit in Russian territory. Now you can hit in Russian territory. But let's go and push the Russians back from where they're hitting Ukraine from.
Do you believe you made any progress? You think there's going to be an announcement or is this something you don't announce that Ukraine just does it? First of all, it's not obvious that everything has to be or should be announced. Second, as I said, there are several allies who have delivered weapons, including, for instance, cruise missiles, long range missiles without any restrictions. So this has enabled the Ukrainians to strike military targets on the territory of Russia.
And we need to understand what this is. This is a war of Russia. Russia has attacked the neighbor Ukraine, and Ukraine has, according to international law, the right for self-defense. And the right for self-defense includes also the right to hit legitimate military targets on the territory of the aggressor, meaning Russia.
So the Ukrainians are doing that to a larger extent now than they did just a few months ago. And of course, this was an issue also addressed at the NATO summit with all the allies present. So yesterday, you said, Mr. Secretary, China has become an enabler of Russia's war against Ukraine, and China's support increases the threat to U.S. Atlantic security. They answered back, the Chinese mission did, to the EU and said, we never provide lethal weapons to either party of the conflict. NATO should stop hyping up the so-called China threat and provoking confrontation.
So I'm going to give you a chance to answer them. There's no doubt that China is the main enabler of Russia's war against Ukraine. It may be incorrect that they are not delivering lethal weapons, but they're delivering all the tools, all the equipment that Russia needs to build these lethal weapons.
They provide almost all the microelectronics, the microprocessors, the dual-use equipment that Russia uses to build missiles, bombs, aircraft to attack Ukraine. And the important message from NATO allies is that this is the first time 32 allies so clearly put their owners on Beijing, on China, being responsible for enabling Russia's brutal war over Russia. That's a clear message to China and a clear warning that this will impact their interest if this continues. Chinese foreign minister said NATO is threatening China's interest by extending its region to Asia.
He said the alliance should avoid messing up Asia the way it messed up Europe. Well, what we see is that China is coming closer and closer to us in Europe. They are exercising now as we speak with Belarus, a neighbor to NATO allies in Europe, but also a neighbor to Ukraine.
And Chinese soldiers are exercising with Belarusian soldiers. China has signed a security agreement with Russia and they state that their partnership is without limits. So what we see is that Moscow, Beijing, China, Russia are more and more aligned and this also demonstrates that what happens in Ukraine today may happen in Asia and Taiwan tomorrow. And there is a close link between European security and Asian security, the security in Asia Pacific. So therefore it is so important that Putin doesn't win in Ukraine because that will not only embolden him to use military force, it will also embolden Xi and China to use military force. So this is a clear demonstration of how our security is interlinked. But Mr. Secretary, people look at this and say the Russians have lost hundreds of thousands of men trying to take Ukraine and they've been frustrated, even though they've had some success. They've taken, I think, 17 percent of the country. And we know this is an unbroke attack. They made up that Ukraine's run by Nazis.
It's ludicrous. But they say there's no way they're looking to spread further. Ukraine's unique. What proof do you have that they're looking beyond Ukraine? Well, we have seen an aggressive pattern by Russia over the last years. First, they went into Georgia. Then they annexed Crimea back in 2014.
And then after a few months, they went into eastern Donbas and then they waited for some years and then they launched a full-scale invasion. So we have seen this aggressive pattern. At the same time, we don't see any imminent threat, military threat against any NATO ally. But that's because they are NATO allies. That's because NATO has been successful in preventing any armed attack against any NATO ally for 75 years by sending a very clear message to Moscow that an attack on all, that an attack on one will be an attack on all, one for all and all for one. So that's the purpose of NATO, is to fight the war, to wage war. The purpose of NATO is to prevent war, is to preserve peace. And we have done that successfully for 75 years by standing together and promise to protect each other. This is good for Europe, but it's also very good for United States. A strong NATO is good for United States. The U.S. is big, 25 percent of the world economy. But together with NATO allies, we are 50 percent, twice as big, 50 percent of the world economy. So a strong NATO makes us to the U.S. safer and stronger. I'm not able to give you a specific timeline, but we've made very strong statements at the summit that Ukraine will become an ally.
We call it an irreversible path towards membership. But in many ways, more important than the language we read are actually actions we agreed to take. So action speaks louder than words. We agreed to build up a big NATO command to ensure that Ukraine gets the military assistance training they need. We agreed a financial pledge for Ukraine to ensure that we send the strong message of enduring support for Ukraine. And we did many other things to provide more air defense, more ammunition to Ukraine. This is important because the stronger our support and the longer the term we're ready to commit to, the sooner this war will end. Because this war will end when President Putin realizes that he will not win on the battlefield.
He has to sit down and accept that Ukraine creates a sovereign independent nation. So strong, long term military support is the way to end this war soon. Here's what President Biden said yesterday.
Cut 15. Look, I think, how can I say this without sounding too self-serving? I've not had any of my European allies come up to me and say, Joe, don't run.
What I hear them say is, you've got to win. Is that the sentiment among the other 30 members of NATO that they should have Joe Biden win, not Donald Trump? Well, NATO is the most successful alliance in history because we have been able to stay out of domestic politics to remain a bipartisan issue in the United States and across the alliance. And therefore, I think it's important that we continue to ensure that we stay out of domestic issues.
This is a domestic issue. It's not for NATO to have any opinion about who is going to be elected as next president or prime minister in any NATO allied country. Was Donald Trump successful in getting NATO members to pay more? Well, former President Trump had a very clear message that European allies had to pay more.
This has been a message from consecutive U.S. administrations and this message has had an impact. Not many years ago, only three allies spent 2 percent of the NATO guideline of GDP on defense. Now it's 23 allies and that's record high. And more and more allies are spending significantly more than 2 percent.
Actually, several allies are now spending more than the United States on defense, measured as share of GDP. So this is a huge shift and this demonstrates that the message has had an impact and European allies in Canada have stepped up. Mr. Secretary, you've done a tremendous job. Everybody really salutes your work you've done. What's next?
I really don't know. I was appointed the governor of the Norwegian Central Bank. I stepped down to continue in NATO.
So now I don't know, but I will surely find something meaningful to do when I return to Norway in October. You've got great years left. Mr. Secretary, Jan Stoltenberg, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure.
