Ron DeSantis: Trump is high risk, Haley is a fraud

Joining us now, Governor Ron DeSantis from somewhere I imagine in Iowa.

Am I correct, Governor? Yeah, you know, it's great, the great folks up here, but normally when I see Iowans in January, it's down in like Marco Island when they're visiting to get out of the cold. I'm up here. How are you handling it? It's been in the 20, you know, it's interesting though. I was in Sioux Center, which is northwest Iowa, last night and it was 26 degrees and I was going into the event and I was backstage with some people and I'm like, you know, as a Florida guy, there's no wind right now so I can handle 26 and they're like, you know what, you're becoming a Midwesterner because that's how they rationalize it. Yeah, maybe 26 degrees, but if it's not real windy, so we haven't really had time, we haven't really had a time where the wind has really been whipping, but the forecast for caucus tonight is going to be like maybe negative in terms of what it's going to be. So it's going to be really, really cold and so fortunately, you know, our supporters are true believers so they're going to come out, but I definitely think it is going to be somewhat of a task to turn out on that night. So there's been about, one of the first things you said to me is when I go to Iowa, at the end, I will be going, I will hit every county.

You did it. Plus, what county, where is you the most, what are you the most concerned about? Where are you going to close out?

We're going to be all over. I mean, I think that, you know, there's different media markets here. You know, Omaha, Nebraska covers part of Iowa. You have the Sioux City area has got a media market, Cedar Rapids. You have Southeast Iowa.

Des Moines, of course, is the biggest market and it's more center of the state. So we're going to be everywhere. My wife is actually out. Casey is out doing stuff and so it's interesting. One of the PACs is running an ad with her where she talks about, you know, how I really supported her through her cancer journey. This was something that she did in the governor's race last year or 2022 and they repurposed it and it's really resonating with Iowans. So she's now doing stuff and she's getting some pretty big crowds of people because they've seen her on TV. They want to meet her and she does a good job of flipping voters to support.

So she's dividing, we're dividing and conquering. We got our kids here. I'm going to have to go back to Florida at the beginning of the week next week because I got to deliver the state of the state address because our legislative session starting. But then we'll be back up here through caucus night and then after the caucus results, we're going to fly to New Hampshire and we'll be in New Hampshire the entire time until the primary eight days. And then we'll go to South Carolina, do kind of an opening swing and then probably finally make it back to Florida for a few days just to kind of get recuperated a little bit.

But yeah, I mean we're high octane right now. So I want you to hear with Governor Haley. You've taken out, you guys are taking a lot of ads to attack each other. I think it's seven million to one million attacking you to one million against Trump. Here's what she said in Milford, New Hampshire about China, about selling land.

Listen, cut three. I dealt with China every single day at the United Nations. They never saw us as a competitor. They always saw us as an enemy. We've got to look at them the way they look at us. So how do we take on China? We start by stopping the sale of any of our US land and taking back what they already purchased.

And you did that, didn't you? What she is saying is a total fraud, Brian. I mean, she was the number one Republican governor in America for bringing China into her state of South Carolina. They gave China land five miles from Fort Jackson, a military base. She's on video in front of the Chinese flag for a Chinese company in South Carolina saying she works for them now. She said China was a friend of ours. And so that's her record. So now she's trying, she knows that's deadly in a Republican primary. She knows Republican voters want us to be tough on China. So now she's changing the rhetoric. But I already banned China from buying land in Florida. We ejected them out of our university. She didn't do that when she was governor.

They had Confucius Institutes, all these other things. And so she's trying to change. She doesn't really have the core convictions. But here's why voters aren't going to buy it, because she has a track record of being very deferential to China. The people that are funding her on Wall Street and the liberals in California, they make money in China. She's not going to stand up to them economically because that's going to potentially hurt some of these fat cats.

So she's not somebody that's going to be able to get the job done. And look, in terms of the money spent, we've had 40 million spent against me. That's more than it's been spent against all the other Republicans combined. That's more than it's been spent against Biden and Trump combined. One of and look, I don't control the PACs.

You know how it works. But there is a PAC that's supporting me that just put out a spot that contrasts Nikki Haley being very weak on the transgender surgery issue, but also Donald Trump injecting men into women's competitions and his beauty pageants, and then also having a difficulty answering Megyn Kelly when she said, can a man become a woman? And then they contrast with my very strong record of saying we got to protect our girls. We can't have these surgeries.

And we can't indulge in the gender ideology madness. So that is now running in Iowa. And so I think people will see that. Governor, I heard you're getting pushback.

You said China will not, Chinese companies will not be allowed to buy land in Florida. We understand that. I understand you're getting major pushback from real estate associations saying, hey, they're our best clients.

How are you handling that? Because a lot of times they are your supporters. And what's in the best interests of this country? I get some people, first of all, there's not a they're not we have we do have some foreign countries, a lot of South America, a lot of those people that, you know, some of these very wealthy people in the Western Hemisphere and Miami and stuff. China is not necessarily it's not integral to our economy at all. I've done no China outreach since I've been governor.

We I know some of my predecessors have done deals with them. We have not since I've been governor. So we have the strongest economy of all 50 states. We helped engineer that with zero reliance on China.

That's what it's got to be. Our national security is more important. We don't want to be dependent on China for these things. So yes, there's all but this is how you determine who's going to lead and who's not.

There's always going to be people who may be able to make some money off some stuff. But are you going to stand up for the folks or are you going to cave? Nikki Haley caved on this issue.

I am not. I'm going to stand strong. And the ACLU is suing us over this. They say somehow it's discrimination to say the CCP can't buy land in your state. That's just common sense.

Yeah, no doubt about it. I think as a country we got to get smarter. Governor, I just we got this cut from the campaign trail and I wanted to ask it to you anyway, but this is how it sounded a couple of days ago when one voter asked you about being tougher on Trump. Listen. Why haven't you gone directly after? Polls are down. He's, you know, up really.

What do you mean by going directly after? In my viewpoint, you're going pretty soft on it. What do you think? So, you know, because we I've articulated all the differences time and time again on the campaign trail. I think that there's just a narrative that I think the narrative is this. I think what the media wants is they want Republican candidates to just kind of like smear him personally and kind of do that.

That's just not how I roll. So is that part of the reason people said you should have been tougher on Trump? I personally have noticed that people are tougher on Trump. You risk alienating his supporters when you got to win them over. Chris Christie, who I'm very friendly with and I think so are you, he goes directly to Trump but has not helped him in the polls.

So it's so it's got to be so it's got to be tactical. I like Chris too but he's trying to attack Trump personally and that just doesn't work. Our Republican voters don't like that mudslinging.

What they do respect and what I have done consistently is point out the differences. He elevated Fauci. I fought Fauci. He didn't fire Fauci.

He should have. I stopped BLM riots in my state. He didn't do anything when the cities were burning in Minneapolis.

He was tweeting. We talked about things with the debt. He added seven, eight trillion to the debt. I've cut the debt in Florida by 25%. We obviously cut taxes. I did universal school choice. He didn't pursue that nationally even though guys like me were telling him to do it. He won Florida by three.

I won by 20. I can serve two terms. I'll be able to get all this. He didn't do the wall of course and have Mexico pay for it and then he's promising things like massive deportations which he promised in 2016 and he deported less than Obama. I've been talking about this throughout the whole campaign. I think just the liberal media don't care about any of those issues so they don't report on it. They want to see more of the personal stuff. They're very interested in some of the stuff with this Alvin Bragg stuff. I think Alvin Bragg is a hack. I mean why would I want to side with somebody that I disagree with like Alvin Bragg?

I remove prosecutors like Alvin Bragg from the state of Florida. So we have done it but here's the thing Brian. The best way to hold people accountable is to be able to be on a debate stage with them where you can hash all this out and he's refused to debate. He doesn't answer questions from voters and I think at the end of the day this is something that he should do. I think it'll ultimately hurt him on caucus night and I think it'll ultimately hurt him on primary night in New Hampshire because he certainly has a hardcore support but in the polling people put out a lot of those people are more fluid and I think it is going to hurt him. I mean he owes it to people to get up there and respond to these questions and he's not been willing to do it. So on the Real Clear Politics, he's got a significant lead over you today in a new poll of GOP leaders or county captains.

It looks like he's got 37, Haley's got 16, you got 9. He's leading you. You're in second in Iowa. You're third or fourth in New Hampshire. Do you not believe the polls or are you saying that things will change from here on in? A poll of county leaders throughout the country, I don't know what that, that is not how it goes. I mean you know individual voters actually decide these things and so you know we're going to actually be in a situation where people are going to be able to vote starting on the 15th and the 23rd in New Hampshire and going on from there.

That's going to bring the clarity. I mean I've never seen just such a reliance on the polls. I think it's created a narrative rather than reflecting opinion. It's trying to shift opinion and look I ran in 2022 and I was very critical of the polls because I had polls saying that I was in the you know two, three point race with my Democrat opponent four or five points even two weeks before and I won by 20 and we knew we were going to win big but that was just not what was reflected there. So I think there's been an over reliance on it and when you're not talking about the underlying issues, how do you shift the sentiment?

You shift the sentiment by having contrasts about the direction of the country and about the different issues and there's been very little of that of course because he hasn't been willing to debate and whatnot but I can tell you this. You know we have a tremendous organization here. We've got great energy.

These are people that are true believers. Tens of thousands of people have committed to caucus for us. We have 1500 plus precinct captains ready to go on caucus night.

This is how you do this stuff. So we've been kind of notes of the grindstone and historically in Iowa this is just the fact the polling has not done a good job predicting the final results and so I think that people are going to be watching on caucus night and I think that they're going to be pleasantly surprised. So we're talking to Governor Ron DeSantis. Governor I think that you heard you might have heard that the Senate and House are working together and doing some substantial border enhancements when it comes to asylum, when it comes to this whole probation thing, the parole, and if it is significant somebody like Congressman Troy Nales came out and said I'm not going to give Biden a win. If they come to an agreement on this even if it makes the border better I'm not going to give Biden a win. Is that the mindset that you had in Congress that we should have in Congress? Look I think the issue on this border is is this going to be Lucy with the football you know Charlie Brown coming down and she pulls it away because we've talked about deals with this for many many years and once you look under the hood it's usually something that won't get the job done. So the House has a piece of legislation HR2 that will get the job done so if they're able to do HR2, and I know people like people like Chip Roy have been pushing this, other folks who are real strong conservatives, but what I would not do, it has nothing to do with Biden, what I would not do is do some type of performative stuff where you sprinkle a little money without really doing, you need to tie Biden's hands on this.

This border should be closed. That is his responsibility and he's not doing it and so my fear would be he would agree to something and he would agree to agree to something which would ultimately not solve the problem. If it's not going to solve the problem they have got to say no. This problem needs to be solved and I support the Republicans putting their foot down, being very strong when it comes to this. Here's the thing, you know Brian and what people are talking about in New York. You have people everywhere, even liberal voters are like this just can't happen in this country. We have to get control of this situation.

Understood. So the president's got a myriad of court cases coming up and his polls drop if he's convicted on any of them. It doesn't matter what we think of them or the audience thinks of the cases, if he's convicted it changes.

Would that influence how long you stay in the race regardless of the distance between you and him? I think it's less that but I think Republican voters should factor this in. Here's the reality, the Democrats want 2024 to be all about a referendum on Donald Trump and a referendum on these legal cases and look I've been critical of Alvin Bragg and Merrick Garland and all that stuff and I think that's appropriate to be critical when you have politics involved in this.

However, I think the reality is that this is going to be very difficult to run a campaign under that. Do we want to put the future of the country and the Republican party in the hands of a Washington DC jury that's likely to be an all stacked Democrat jury? I don't have confidence that that's going to come out well for any Republican, much less Donald Trump. So I think as voters look at this and I've made this case in Iowa and will continue to make it, Donald Trump is a high-risk candidate because of all the things that can happen.

The reward I would argue is low because he'd be a lame duck president on day one, couldn't serve two terms, I think he'd have problems getting personnel. Whereas me, I'm a low-risk candidate, we've shown how it's done in Florida and I'd be able to serve two terms, be able to deliver on all these promises in a really, really big way. If the election is focused on the people's issues and Biden and the Democrats' failures, we have a great chance to win.

If the election becomes a referendum on Donald Trump, criminal trials in January 6th, that is playing into the liberal media's hands, that's playing into the Democrats' hands and unfortunately, I think the Democrats would end up winning in that situation and that would be a tragedy for the country. Have you spoken to the president since you started running against him? No, because he hasn't come to any of the events. I mean, I'd love to ask him how his golf game's going, some of that stuff, but he's got to show up to these debates. I do think this though, Brian, I mean, you know, if he under performs in Iowa in these early states, he may have to start debating, but I think even if you're somebody that is all in for Trump, don't you think we want candidates to step on that stage and prove that they can handle it? You know, I was willing to debate Gavin Newsom, who's their star recruit, and we were able to handle him because we have the facts on our side and conservative policies work.

You ought to be willing to step on that stage and defend your record. So Governor, I know Mitt Romney ran, didn't get the nomination, got it the second time. John McCain ran against George W. Bush, didn't get it, got it the second time. It's not unusual to run for the nomination, come back again.

If it doesn't work out for you, you're not even 50. In your head, is this the last time you're running? This is the time for the country. I mean, you know, how you plan these things, that's never been how I've been because I'm not really running to be somebody, I'm running to do something. And I view 24 as a pivot point for America to where we've got to get this done and we've got to do all this stuff. And so that's been my focus. That's why I'm running. And that's why we need to be able to win. And so so we just take it one day at a time.

I've never been somebody that has kind of planned out like, oh, I got to be here for this or here for that. That's not how I roll as governor. I just did the job. I won a big election victory.

I wasn't doing anything. Then after the midterms, I looked and I said, look, the Republicans did poorly. Trump's candidates did poorly. We did very well. We have the formula for success. And so that was part of why, you know, I thought that this year was that was the right year. So so we're excited that finally people are going to be able to vote.

I mean, you know, you do this for a living. So there's a lot of punditry and I get it. But but ultimately, when Americans get to vote, that is that is what's going to happen. So I'm looking forward to it. And I just want to thank everybody in Iowa who signed up for us.

January 15th. We want your support. And the last question. You've been on a roll. I mean, you run for Congress. You win. You run for governor. You win twice. You know, outstanding college career.

You go serve in the military. I talked to your commanding officer over the weekend. He couldn't say nicer things about you. Is it been tough right now not being first? I know the game hasn't started technically, but the campaigning has happened.

How have you handled Brian? But in those in those elections, I was always the underdog in every election I've ever been in. That's nothing new for me. And, you know, none of these things are necessarily easy. There's always different bumps in the road. And you just got to be able to navigate it. I mean, I think when you get into a presidential campaign, you know, there's things you can control. And I and I can control, you know, I'm going to go do well in this debate. I'm going to go well, going to go visit all these cities and answer questions from voters.

I'm going to work harder than anyone. And then there's things you just can't control. I mean, you know, I can't control, you know, if The New York Times writes a hit piece with anonymous sources that are made up and that try to make us look bad. That's just what happens. And so you just got to roll with the punches, focus on what you can control. And ultimately, you know, all the stuff's in God's hands anyway. And so we're working hard and we'll continue to do that.

And through all of those things, one of the reasons why I've been an underdog, but the success ultimately followed is because I have a strong work ethic and I do outwork people. And so I think as a president, that's someone you want. We see what happens when we have a president now who's on vacation most of the time.

It doesn't work out well. I'll put notes to the grindstone for the American people. You got a one on one debate just like you had against Gavin Newsom. Now you're going to get some form of opponent Nikki Haley. Will you watch tapes of past debates or past exchanges?

I don't know that I'll do that. I mean, I think that this is a strong contrast between a candidate like me who really represents the values of Republican voters nationwide and somebody like Nikki who's just taken positions and has has a record that's more in tune with more of the insiders in D.C. and New York. And that's not what Republican voters ultimately are going to go for. So I think we'll be able to show the contrast there.

I think we have a very significant contrast in records in terms of achievements. And then I think we have a contrast in terms of core conviction. So we'll see all that. It'll be good.

You know, two hours on a stage when when it's one on one, you just get more time to talk. You're going to be able to hit most of the issues I think that voters really are concerned about. And we have committed to doing debates after the caucus in New Hampshire. So I think we have won the three days after the caucus that we've committed to. You know, if you guys at Fox want to do one, I obviously would be would be interested in doing that as well.

And then I'm sure we'll have some debate scheduled in South Carolina as we start to move down there. And you do this interesting thing where you don't need the podium. I've never seen that before.

You just kind of like you spring it on. No notes. Governor Ron DeSantis, best of luck out there. Thanks for your quality time. Happy New Year, Brian. Take care. Same to you and your family. This is The Brian Kilmeade Show. Back in a moment. Listen to this show ad free on Fox News podcast plus on Apple podcast, Amazon music with your prime membership or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.