Polish President Andrezj Duda: Ukraine's problem is a shortage of weapons

Hey, welcome back, everyone. It's my privilege to have in studio the president of Poland, Andrzej Duda, president of the Republic of Poland, really since 2014. He's done a remarkable job and stepped up big time when this Ukraine war started. His country has taken in about a million Ukrainians. Mr. President, welcome to the show.

Welcome. I greet you and all our listeners and viewers. How has Poland been able to absorb the million Ukrainians? And what has been the greatest challenge for your country as after Russia's invasion?

That was a reflex of our hearts. Nobody really had to encourage Poles, my compatriots, to welcome refugees from Ukraine into their homes. We call them guests in Poland. When Russia attacked Ukraine, launching a full-scale attack, as we put it, on the 24th of February, 2022, well, indeed, a huge flood of refugees started to move towards the Polish border. We opened up our border immediately, trying to let as many people get through as possible, tried to make it available for the biggest possible number of people to flee from the areas which Russia was attacking. Because right from the start in that war, Russia has been brutally attacking civilian neighborhoods.

It's not only military targets. Right from the start, they carried out brutal missile raids of big neighborhoods in big Ukrainian cities, in Kharkiv, in Kiev, and in other places, also close to the Polish border in Lviv, in Lutsk. So, there were a lot of such attacks, and people were fleeing just like that. Indeed, they were welcomed in Polish homes. And just anonymous people, whom they had never known, took them.

Poles went to the border, took those people home, they invited them and supported them. That was just a reflex of the heart, so to say. We know simply what it means that somebody is suffering when somebody was attacked, especially by Russians. Unfortunately, this is a part of our history, a big part of our history. And this opening of the hearts was just immediate. It was just a reflex of the heart.

It was pretty amazing to see. You are also the first nation to give the Ukrainians fighter jets. And they need more fighter jets, don't they? Yes, we have transferred to Ukraine big size, big parts of armaments as the first ones. The biggest assistance, of course, is coming from the United States and being neighbors to Ukraine. We are very much grateful for that, to the U.S. authorities for that support to Ukraine. Without this support, Ukraine would not survive, and there is no doubt about that.

They wouldn't be able to defend themselves. It is not only about the bravery of Ukrainian soldiers, which is wonderful, but it is also a matter of having things to fight with, the equipment to fight with. So, right from the start, we were also sending armaments to Ukraine.

The one which Ukrainian soldiers were able to use right away, that was important at the outset. They had no experience whatsoever with Western American military equipment or German equipment or French equipment, but they were very good at using Soviet era Russian equipment. That is why we sent right away MiG-29 jets.

We put them at the disposal of Ukrainian soldiers, and they had pilots who were able to fly those planes right away. We sent more than 300 tanks to Ukraine. Mainly, these were the post-Soviet era tanks, but we modernized them in Poland, and they had strengthened armors.

Also, communication systems were high-quality ones. They were well equipped and ready to fight. We sent more than 300 such tanks, plus also leopard tanks later on, produced by Germany. We even organized a tank coalition or an armor coalition, as we called it. We also talked to everybody and convinced everyone, upon the request of Ukraine, to send modern tanks to Ukraine.

The tanks which were tanks of the 21st century. And indeed, we were implementing the help of the time. So, we belong among the three states who actually gave the biggest military assistance to Ukraine. That was a huge effort to us, but we are doing that also in order to strengthen Polish security, because we know that Russian imperialism has to be stopped. To us, this is of key importance, to make sure that Ukraine can defend itself, so that Russians are not able to conquer Ukraine, so that they do not defeat Ukraine. Ukraine has to defend itself, and I make an appeal to everyone to support Ukraine, because the primacy of international law has to be reinstated. And in order for that to happen, Russian troops have to be driven out from the Ukrainian lands.

Ukraine has to recover control of its internationally recognized borders. So, we've given 70 billion dollars, but everything we give seems late. HIMARS, late. Patriot, late. F-15 trainings, late. The cluster bombs, late. The Javelin missiles, late. The tanks, 31, not one has arrived. How hard has it been on the Ukrainians, because it seems like we are always late?

First and foremost, assistance is needed, and it's positive that the assistance is being given. I'm always saying, well, we need to appreciate that, because without the military support, especially with modern equipment, Ukraine would not be able to defend itself. The problem that Ukrainians are facing is not only the so-called military techniques or technology, simply sad weapons.

There is also another thing. Russians are much more numerous than Ukrainians. Vladimir Putin does not care for the life of his soldiers.

He sends thousands of soldiers to die, as a matter of fact, in many cases. Russians are suffering huge losses, but he is sending soldiers coming from the far east of Russia. These are not soldiers from Moscow, they are not reservists or conscripts from St. Petersburg, from big cities, where there are influential elites, where there could be a rebellion on the part of the society, where the world would be able to see mothers of fallen soldiers protesting. He is taking soldiers from far away areas of Russia, non-Russians. They are coming from many different nations, nations who live in Russia, and those soldiers are being killed en masse, simply. But they are actually outnumbering Ukrainians with a sheer number. This is the difference between 14 million Ukrainians and 140 million Russians. We are late on this, and it makes it harder in America for us to support the world when we're late on getting the stuff they need, yet the numbers are high in terms of what we've already given.

Have you expressed to President Biden that they need F-15s, they need more tanks, 31 is not enough? Yesterday I said to President Biden, because we had an opportunity to see each other during a reception given here in New York by Mr. President, on the occasion of the UN General Assembly, traditionally, I said I ask for a match to provide further support to Ukraine, to supply armaments to Ukraine, because that is of key importance to stop Russian imperialism, to avoid a huge war, because I am convinced that if Russian imperialism is not stopped, then Russia, sooner or later, with its actions, will lead to a great war. And then, unfortunately, as we have seen in history, from the history of the First World War and the Second World War, in order to bring about peace in Europe somehow, the United States again will have to get involved by deploying its soldiers. That is why I urge and I'm making a pill to help Ukraine right now, so that Ukraine is able to defend itself before this conflict spills over. Today we can cut off Russian imperialism simply by forcing Russians to withdraw and by doing that, by punishing the imperialist ambitions which Vladimir Putin is demonstrating. This is a huge opportunity today to keep the peace in the world and I appeal to everyone.

I also asked President Biden to do the same, to use this opportunity. This opportunity is being used precisely through supporting Ukraine. We are sending armaments to Ukraine, we are helping Ukrainians to defend their homeland. So you, I understand, are spending even more on your defense than any other nation in NATO per capita, for your GDP. Not only you doing 2%, you're going to get up to 4%. Why do the Polish people and you, President Duda in particular, understand the need to hit the threshold of 2% and double it, where other nations like Germany, France, Hungary and others don't even get close to that.

In fact, only 9 nations are hitting their 2%. That drives critics of NATO crazy, like people like President Trump and he's got a great point, doesn't he? I was 17 years old in 1989 when the Iron Curtain was falling and when Poland was liberating itself from the darkness of communism. And simply from the Russian, from the Soviet sphere of influence. We were successful thanks to solidarity, thanks to the determination of the Polish people, but also thanks to huge support from the United States and we'll always be grateful to President Ronald Reagan.

We'll recall him with gratefulness. But also our Pope, John Paul II, in my cabinet at Warsaw, I've got a picture where Ronald Reagan and the Pope were talking to each other. They were two huge leaders and together with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, they brought the fall of the Iron Curtain. And thanks to that, we managed to liberate ourselves without a fight, without bloodshed in a democratic way, through protests, through elections, that was a great, great success. But we understand full well in Poland what Russian occupation is, what Russian sphere of influence stands for. And today, when Russia again has revived its imperial ambitions, when it wants to govern, to subjugate itself to other nations, which it demonstrated in Georgia back in 2008, which it has been demonstrating since 2014 in Ukraine.

And since last year, through full-scale aggression by crushing civilian neighborhoods, by killing people. Polish people understand full well that we have to prepare ourselves to show that we are strong enough and hence the decisions to spend on defense, on strengthening Polish armed forces. Of course, we are very happy to have on our soil the U.S. soldiers and we are really grateful for that to the United States as a state and as a member of NATO.

But we know that what is of biggest importance is to make sure that we are a responsible ally and a responsible ally is the one who cares for their own security. President Duda, of Poland, I have so many questions for you, but I guess first and foremost, is this a Putin issue? Is Vladimir Putin the one who really wants to expand and get the Russian Empire back? Or is this a Russian government policy and he just happens to be the president? Is Putin the problem or is Russia the problem? Of course, a huge problem is the attitude of the presidents of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin. He is leading the state, after all, and these are his political decisions. And, of course, a circle of his collaborators as well.

Let us be open and frank and say the following. This policy, the imperialist policy of Russia, the policy of Russia against Ukraine, meets support of a huge part of the Russian society. There were no big protests in Russia against Vladimir Putin's policy. Russians, for many years, have been fed with propaganda. They are being convinced that they have the right to govern other nations, that they have the right to expand their Ruskimir. But the nations in our part of the world, in our part of Europe, had to do with Russian aggression, with Russian influences, and they don't want to have them back. And we will defend ourselves against that because we do not want to have Ruskimir.

We have our own culture, we have our own customs, and we want to preserve these. We do not want Russia to impose its rules upon us. Which they've done before, with the Soviet Union coming on one end, Nazi German on the other end, and they cut Poland to pieces. And you're not going to let that happen again.

I'm sure of it. A huge number of our citizens were murdered. Poles were shot down during the Second World War. That was done by Germans, by German Nazis.

That was also done by Russians in cutting. They killed Polish officers, Polish intelligentsia. Several thousand Poles were murdered in a brutal way by the Stalin regime, by the Soviets. Hundreds of thousands were deported to faraway Siberia. We know what suffering means in Russian enslavement, and we never want to see that again. They're great at this, capturing things like they're taking Ukrainian kids and bringing them into Russia. They give 4% of their GDP to NATO, and they've already given 3.15, excuse me, $3.26 billion towards this fight in Ukraine, and taken in over a million Ukrainians. The president of Poland, I want to understand the threat in studio.

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So go to GetLiverHelp.com slash Jimmy now. Here's Friday on ABC and stream on Hulu. The president of Poland, who's done such a remarkable job as an ally to the Americans, especially to the Ukrainians, understand the Russian threat. Mr. President, give me your view on the counterinsurgency right now. I know you said prior to this the Russians have really dug in and they're looking to protect the land they stole. But it seems as though there seems to be breakthroughs over the last few weeks in taking back such small towns. Are they getting the demanding equipment?

Are they starting to see some penetration? The beginning of the offensive or the counteroffensive launched by Ukraine was very difficult. The reason for that was that, well, perhaps the Ukrainians might not have or might have underestimated the Russians, their preparations to keep the occupied areas. Russians built a very strong line of defense.

They built fortifications and, first and foremost, they laid hundreds of square kilometers of minefields. And indeed, the Ukrainian army, which was launching the counteroffensive, was entering those minefields and suffered huge losses. That is why a couple of months ago I personally was asked by President Volodymyr Zelensky that Poland sends special vehicles, demining vehicles. And as a matter of fact, we were supplying such vehicles from Poland as part of our support. We were looking for them all over Poland in military units in order to be able to deploy them to Ukraine as soon as possible so that they could support the defensive activities of Ukrainians to support the counteroffensive. But in fact, Russians did a lot of work to fortify and that was holding back to a large extent the Ukrainian counteroffensive today. Some of those minefields have been neutralized, but that is going to be a concern for tens of years after the war ends, because we know that minefields are a huge tragedy under anti-personal mines.

But today, today a lot of those difficulties have been overcome. Ninety seconds left. Right now, people wonder how committed Western Europe is to this. There's word that India is selling Russian oil back to Western Europe.

They get it at a discount. They're starting to break their own sanctions. Countries like Germany. Do you worry about countries like Germany and France, who are not giving what they pledged?

You think they'll start to maybe forget about this? Well in the first place, I keep calling on helping Ukraine. The assistance to Ukraine means also very consistent implementation of the sanctions policy vis-a-vis Russia. Russia has to be stopped. The Russian imperialism is very dangerous. Today this Russian imperialism is demonstrated through the brutal aggression against Ukraine. But if Russia is successful in Ukraine, then it will probably attack other states. As many years ago, in 2008, when Russia invaded Georgia, Polish President Lekaczynski was saying in Tbilisi, and I had an honor to cooperate with him back then as a young minister in his office. He said that today it's Georgia, tomorrow perhaps it will be Ukraine, and then perhaps the Baltic states and perhaps even in my country, Poland, he said that. He said it in 2008, and unfortunately his words are coming true. That is why we are trying so much to support Ukraine today in our part of Europe, the president of the Baltic states, myself, because we are aware that Russia poses a real threat, that there is a Russian imperialism. The president was thrilled to have you here, and we're so glad you're an ally of ours, the way you fought with us in Afghanistan, Iraq, and doing it again.