Hi everyone, it's Brian Kilmead here. Are you tired of those uncomfortable dress shirts, especially when they bunch up under a sweater? If so, then you must check out Collars Co., makers of the dress collar polo. Listen up. These shirts are four-way stretch, buttery soft polos with firm dress collars on them, so they give you the dress shirt look, but extremely comfortable polo feel.
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Of any purchase of $100 or more. That's promo code Brian. It's my privilege to bring in Utah Governor Spencer Cox, author of a brand new book called Off-Ramp, How to Be a Peacemaker in an Age of Contempt. And everyone would like to know that. A lot of people haven't tried.
You have tried on a regular basis. That's pretty much the label on you. You try to make things happen.
Well, thank you, Brian. It's great to be with you, man. This is fun. It's great to be in the studio with you. Look, I don't get it right all the time.
And politics is built that way. Like every incentive is lined up right now not to try to work together, not to try to solve problems. But I really believe that Americans right now want people to get stuff done. That's what they care about. They're frustrated.
We see this going back and forth, right? They're tired of one party, so they try the other party, and we're not getting stuff done. We're not working together.
Now, I want to be very clear. Working together does not mean that you have to compromise your principles. I think we should disagree. I think we should debate strongly. We definitely shouldn't shoot each other.
And that's one of the things that worries me is the rise in political violence. Because this is almost a full year since Charlie Cook's assassination, and it happened in Utah with you as governor. How did you get word of it?
So, you know, we were, it was a normal day. This is in your book. Yeah, he was coming out. I knew he was coming. He was actually coming out twice.
He was speaking at UVU that day. And then the next week he was speaking at Utah State University, which is my alma mater.
So I was kind of focused on that one because I knew he was speaking there. And so I had forgotten he was at UVU that day. Normal day, I'm having lunch with my staff when my assistant comes in, and she had a look on her face that I'd never seen before. And governors, we know bad things are going to happen. It's just a matter of time.
But I didn't know what this one was. I walked out. I was told that Charlie Kirk had been shot. I was actually told that two people had been shot. You get bad information so early.
And my first thought was, you know, this can't be true, not here. This can't be real. I'm sure it's bad information. And immediately that video started going viral. And then, of course, that's when you knew there was.
You said within 30 seconds, you got a call from the Secretary of State. Marco Rubio is a friend of yours. That's correct, yes. 30 seconds. You're thinking to yourself, how did he know?
Yeah, yeah. Again, word spreads so quickly. This was all being live streamed.
So people were literally watching it when it happened. He's at the White House at this time. The president says, hey, call the governor. The president called me a little bit later, but it was Secretary Rubio. And it's not just, hey, you've had this awful tragedy, the highest profile assassination in 50 years in your state.
But He's a close personal friend of these guys, right?
So it's so much more than that. And now you're trying to get the right information, and there's a whole bunch of information coming in, but you don't know what's true, what's not true, what's... Because you thought he was going to survive for a while. You were getting some positive reports that he would be able to survive. They certainly got medical attention quick.
The very first report was that he was in stable condition.
Now, my first question was: all right, where did we get that report? And I realized it was like fourthhand. And so immediately we sent one of our people over to the hospital so we could get direct information. And that very first conversation, we realized it was not good. Wow.
And then the investigation started. What was your role in securing the scene?
So we, again, I have a role in securing the scene, but we immediately sent our team down there. The FBI was on their way. We knew that they would be there.
So we had local law enforcement who was on scene, the local sheriff, immediately secure the scene. And they start, you know, they're taking statements, they've got witnesses. There, who saw what, who heard what. We're reviewing video very quickly because there's a lot of cameras all over campus, and we knew we would be able to pick something up. We knew where that was.
People were pointing towards where they thought the shot came from, which was high and kind of behind. And so, we had our lead investigators on the scene, and Cash Patel flew in that next day.
So, the FBI was on the scene very quickly. And it was like a military zone. I mean, everything was locked down. We had everybody, all of our law enforcement, racing to the scene to try to catch the perpetrator and make sure that this didn't happen again. And then the video would come into play, and you'd get the guy, and ultimately, his parents would turn him in.
Yeah, yeah. They recognize him. His mom is watching the news. We do this press conference that night and she sees this video, and she's like, wow, that looks like my son.
So they bring him in, they confront him, and then. Then they get his phone and he has all of these messages with his friends and others saying that it was him. You surprised a year later, Tyler Robinson is on trial, and it took a year to decide if we should go ahead with the trial? Yeah, look, the justice system all across this country takes way too long. It's something we're working on fixing in Utah.
We need more judges. That's one of the things that we're doing so that we can move through these quickly, get through the backlog faster. Look, you have a right to a speedy trial. You don't have a right to a slow trial. And I think that's really important.
We take way too long on these things. But the good news is they're making sure that they're doing it the right way. We don't want this guy to get off. Like in most states, there's a draw that comes with every case. And this happens to be a brand new judge, somebody I appointed just a few months ago.
Can you imagine that this is your first case? Are you happy with the way he's moving things? A lot of people think she's been too accommodating towards defense. Yeah, look, again, I want the right outcome. I want justice, right?
And we have a presumption of innocence in this. But I would rather have it go slow and not get overturned on appeal. And if he is giving a little leniency on the other side, that's so it doesn't get appealed.
So there's no question when this is done. And Governor Cox, the worrying thing is, just as a non-lawyer, I very rarely see a case which has so much evidence towards. the accused. I mean, this is overwhelming, including his parents bringing him in. It's the kind of most open and shut case you could possibly.
But the podcast world is having a field day saying he was not the guy. Look, you can. He must have heard these rumors. Oh, sure. You can make a lot of money in this country by making stuff up.
And it's far more interesting than the truth. This guy did it. He admitted to it. We have video evidence. His parents saw the video evidence.
The gun has been in their family for years. I mean, all of it is there. We have the fingerprints. We have the tools he used to write on the casings. I mean, again, it's just he did it.
He admitted to it. And we caught him. All right.
So in retrospect, who should have secured that scene? Who should have secured the roof? Yeah.
So there is an ongoing, well, it's close to wrapping up.
So really important. We had third parties come in to say, okay, who did what right? Who did what wrong? What can we learn from this? That's all going to come out in the next few weeks, the next few months.
And so I'm not going to bias that investigation. Again, I know. The local teams work very closely with his security teams. And I mean, look, the president almost got shot off of a roof. And that was with the greatest security team in the world, right?
I mean, he's got more security agents than anywhere. And I hate that this happened, and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again. But I'm not going to point any fingers until the investigation starts. You really distinguished yourselves during that time by speaking eloquently, concisely, and from the heart. At that moment, what did you feel like your responsibility was at that time?
Well, look, we were already starting to hear the Rhettic.
Now, I want to be clear. Most of America was absolutely incredible during this time. I had Democrats from all over the country who were calling and offering their condolences, their sympathies to Erica and the family. They were very clear that this is not okay. But then you would open social media and there were people celebrating, right?
Not just saying. They still are. Are absolutely still are. And that made me angry. It made me sick to my stomach.
And there were calls for retribution and civil war and all of this stuff. And I was just worried that this could spiral into something else.
So, look, I don't take any credit for this. Erica did more to, I think, to lower the temperature than anybody else out there. I mean, there was this moment I was there at Charlie's memorial service where she stood up and actually forgave the guy who killed her. Yeah, I can have a husband. And neither could President Trump.
He said that, right? I could never do that. But I think that did more to lower the temperature. But what I tried to do is I tried to channel what Utah's were feeling and saying at that point. We could not believe it happened in our state.
And you'll notice, like, in Utah, There were no riots. Nobody turned over cars. Nobody attacked police officers. It was just calm, and there were vigils held and people serving and trying to make the country a better place. And that's what we do.
That's the answer to prevent political violence is, again, we argue passionately, but we treat each other with dignity and respect. And I hope that's an example to everyone.
So Spencer Cox is our guest, the governor of Utah. He's got a brand new book out called Off-Ram, How to Be a Peacemaker in an Age of Contempt. It's really and polarization. We come back.
Some of the things you think we could work on that you want to, you have positioned yourself as somebody who's conservative, but likes to get things done. Wants to get things done, what we can learn from the way you approach things, and will that come back in vogue? I do think that'll come back. There'll be a sense of doing deals, try to get the best deal possible, but trying to get something done because people are extremely frustrated. We'll see.
A lot of people think I'm crazy for thinking that. You don't. And I want to hear what you have to say on that. Governor Spencer Cox in a moment. Hi, everyone.
It's Brian Kilmead here. Are you tired of those uncomfortable dress shirts, especially when they bunch up under a sweater? If so, then you must check out Collars and Co., makers of the dress collar polo. Listen up. These shirts are four-way stretch, buttery soft polos with firm dress collars on them.
So they give you the dress shirt look, but extremely comfortable polo feel. You can wear them with anything under a sweater, with a blazer, or by themselves as an elevated polo. They work for any occasion. These polos are perfect, whether it's in the office, on a golf course, or a night out. Collars and Co.
is exploding and have gone viral on social media thanks to the 1 million investment they received on Shark Tank from Mark Cuban and Peter Jones. You don't have to worry about collars that flop down and spread out. They stay firm and sharp. All day. It's an amazing array of sweaters, quarter zips, pants, and outerwear.
If you're looking for the performance dress shirt or polo that looks great all day, check out collarsandco.com. Use promo code Brian for 15% off of any purchase of $100 or more. That's promo code Brian. All right, Governor Spencer Cox is here in his book, Off-Ramp, How to be a Peacemaker in an Age of Contempt. He joins us now because he's known as somebody that he gets along with both Democrats and Republicans.
Spencer, how do you do it? What is your approach? When you get into politics, right away they say, if you want to win over your party, show your conservative credentials, show you willing to go to bat, raise the most money. If you're reaching across the aisle, a lot of times people go, we don't know if we can trust this guy. Sure.
Yeah.
And look, I get some of that. I do some of that sometimes as well. I understand the pushback, but I think there's two things that are really important. One is you can burnish your credentials and be very conservative and stick to your principles. And you can get stuff done.
And that's what we've been able to prove in Utah. Look, I like to say it's easy. We have a supermajority, right? We never have to listen to a Democrat. We never have to pass a bill by a Democrat.
And yet, the Democrats pass many bills every year with significant bipartisan. Majorities, sometimes unanimous majorities, because we want to represent everyone and we want to work together and we want to solve stuff. Give me an example of something that passed that you thought to yourself, well, half this bill I don't agree with, but the other half I do. Yeah, so look, again, with most of these, there's been those types of compromises that have happened ahead of time where we can get stuff done and figure it out. Look, there's one that I talk about that was a really big one.
It was really controversial, and that was around protecting rights in housing and employment for LGBTQ individuals.
Okay, so this was, I was lieutenant governor at the time, but Governor Herbert was in, and I was helping with some of these negotiations. And we sat down because the country was really blowing up with this stuff. Indiana, Arkansas, people remember this was, I mean, eight, ten years ago. I don't remember exactly when it was, but real controversy over this stuff. And we sat down and said, look, we brought religious leaders into the room.
Can we protect The freedom of religion.
So that you remember there were lawsuits about you have to bake this cake for the LGBTQ, or if you're a religious, you have to allow gay marriages in your church. And we're like, we're not going to do that. Like, we're going to push back on that. But, but the two sides came together and said, look, we can offer some protections here, but we're also going to raise protections for religious freedom at the same time, right? It's not one or the other.
We're going to do both. It was a hard pill for a lot of conservatives to swallow, but we did it. It's been a model. It's worked very well. We haven't had issues.
We protected religious freedom and we made sure that people weren't just getting fired from their jobs because they were gay, right? Like that seems like a pretty baseline level for people. And it's one of the things that Utah's are pretty proud of. People who opposed it at the time now support it. And I'm grateful we were able to do that.
I know New Jersey, for example, they are now suing the state because they want to be able to have a kid go up and say, I'm changing my gender, I'm changing my name in school, and not. tell the parent. See, it's ridiculous. Thank you. Absolutely ridiculous.
You know, that's the part for the course in California. Yeah, yeah. Of course. Look, here's another example that I can give you.
So we banned transgender medications and surgeries for minors in the state of Utah. Knew this was going to pass. And we don't need any Democrats. We're just going to do this. And I knew the Democrats would oppose it.
And yet, so what we did was we still got together. We got together with the transgender community. They came to the governor's mansion, those who were passing the bill, we talked about what was going to happen. We said, look, we want to do this respectfully. We want you to know.
We want your feedback. The debates were still passionate, but they weren't awful. They were much better than in other states. Still passed the bill. But I'll tell you something that came out of that.
We were able to get some funding to help these kids. To get some therapy, some doc therapy. These kids are struggling. And I care about these kids, right? And so instead of saying, hey, you can transition anytime you want and you can't tell your parents, we said, look, we're not going to allow you to do this.
You have to wait till your brain is fully formed, right? We don't let you drive. We don't let you do drink. This should be pretty standard stuff. But we also want to treat you with respect.
It doesn't mean they supported the bill. They were still mad that the bill passed. But that was a way that we could show, hey, we're Republicans. We're conservatives. This is an issue that's important to us, but we're also not going to just tear you down in the process.
Where do you stand on the environment? For example, The environmental extremists, the protests in the street that are now, you know, where The beginning of the protests, the so-called Antifa protests, that caught people by surprise, was this whole push for green energy. We've got to get rid of fossil fuels. The world's going to end in 10 years. It's going to end in eight years.
We know AOC thinks it should end this year. Al Gore should have ended 10 years ago. All these things.
So now, do you believe if Democrats get it back into power, do all those things come back into vogue, knowing the power that's needed for AI and everything else? Do you sense there's going to be Back to green energy, no more gas cars by 2035.
Well, I certainly hope not. And I'll give you some hope on this front.
So, we've been having these discussions with the national governors about energy. You better love the environment in Utah because, I mean, that's your great assassin. And guess who's protected the environment all these years in Utah? Conservatives, Republicans. But there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.
And this is a problem. By the way, the big fires that we're having out west are because we haven't treated our forests the way they should have been treated because the extreme environmentalists locked up those forests.
So you should have about 50 to 60 trees per acre for a healthy forest.
Some places we have 2,000 trees per acre so that when these fires start, they burn so hot that nothing can recover. Greatest environmental disaster in the history of Utah are fires that have burned so extreme because we shut down logging, we shut down treatment of these forests by the extreme environmental community. We released more carbon into the atmosphere from the fires in Utah. Utah this year than all of the oil and gas, all of the fossil fuels combined, right?
So this is what we're doing. We care about protecting the environment, but here's where I want to give you some hope. Every governor I've talked to has changed their mind about energy. They all know we need more of all of it. Like the idea that we're just going to shut down energy production in this country is not happening.
They're much more supportive. The Democrats now I'm talking about are much more supportive of what we're doing. That would give me a great solace. That could be something moving forward. A few more minutes with Governor Spencer Cox on his new book, Off-Red.
Don't Move. Hi, everyone. It's Brian Kilmead here. Are you tired of those uncomfortable dress shirts, especially when they bunch up under a sweater? If so, then you must check out Collars Co., makers of the dress collar polo.
Listen up. These shirts are four-way stretch, buttery soft polos with firm dress collars on them, so they give you the dress shirt look, but extremely comfortable polo feel. You can wear them with anything under a sweater, with a blazer, or by themselves as an elevated polo. They work for any occasion. These polos are perfect, whether it's in the office, on a golf course, or a night out.
Collars Co. is exploding and have gone viral on social media thanks to the 1 million investment they received on Shark Tank from Mark Cuban and Peter Jones. You don't have to worry about collars that flop down and spread out. They stay firm and sharp all day. It's an amazing array of sweaters, quarter zips, pants, and outerwear.
If you're looking for the performance dress shirt or polo that looks great all day, check out collarsandco.com. Use promo code. Brian for 15% off of any purchase of $100 or more. That's promo code Brian. That man.
Back up me up. I forgive him. That's what we were talking about with Governor Spencer Cox, who was there at the Memorial Service after the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Of course, he's governor of Utah when the assassination happens. He's at the hub of it.
He was our communications. That was our opportunity to find out what was going on. He kind of brought the country through that. I know the president really approached that, really appreciated that. The name of his book is Off-Ramp: How to Be a Peacemaker in an Age of Contempt.
And he's with us now. But that was one of the moments that we both talked about. I think you were a national figure before. But after that, your interaction with the Kirk family, which I truly appreciate. But that moment was something that I wouldn't have been able to do.
Yeah, look. Days after the guy who put a bullet in your husband and ended his life and destroyed your family forever. It was powerful. I mean, you hear it there. I still kind of get chills when I hear that.
Erica standing up there forgiving him. And there were, you know, I found all these tweets of posts on X from Charlie where he talked about forgiveness and how important that was. That he quotes in the Bible: Jesus Christ saying that we should love our enemies and do good to those that hurt us and despitefully use us. And her standing up and forgiving people was the most Christian moment I can remember. It was absolutely stunning.
I think it surprised a lot of people and is one of the examples that I use in the book of how we can do this better. And I just want to bring you back to that moment in court when James Robinson's there and the judge addresses him, Cut 54. Calling case two five one four zero three five seven six State of Utah vs. Tyler James Robinson. Could you state your name?
Tyler James Robinson. Thank you for being here, Mr. Robinson.
So He would later say, people would read his lips and say that he did when his family walked in and they started talking about Charlie's kids. He goes, he was married, he had kids. What do they tell you about this guy? I mean, I'm sure you know people in the community that know him. Yeah, yeah.
So a quiet guy, incredibly talented and successful in high school. And then he flames out of college really quickly. Internet vortex, right? Yep. Yep.
Yep. Gets sucked into these rabbit holes, you know, internet, gaming, all of this stuff. And they talked about how his personality changed. And that's what scares me is like this was a kid just like any other kid. There was nothing that would have suggested that he would eventually become this monster who could do something like this.
So a year later, Eric Kirk will be speaking in Dallas for the next two days, and the president's got to have the first time ever a midterm convention. And I know there's about 100 lawmakers in Canada that's going to be there out of the 300 plus, they could be there. How do you feel about is this well-timed for you? You like the location? What do you think it's going to do for your party?
Yeah, well, it's interesting. I don't know what it's going to do just because we've never had one before. And I hope it's helpful. Look, we've all seen the polling. We know that it's tough out there right now.
And we need Republicans to do well in these midterms. We've got to keep the House and the Senate. I know everybody's out campaigning, trying to help candidates do everything we can.
So my hope is that there will be a rallying cry around this, that it will drive people in the party to get out and vote. That's one of the concerns people have. I know the president has this. When he's on the ballot, there's higher turnout, and we do better. When he's not on the ballot, that hasn't been the case.
And so I know that Republicans are very hopeful. We're hopeful that this will be a positive thing. And one thing that they're doing is, I don't have any Democrats said what they would do better. Affordability. Oh, that's so good.
They're staying on message. But how are you making things more affordable? By spending more on programs? I don't get it. By vilifying.
Yeah.
Corporations, I don't understand it. You want to raise taxes? When has that ever worked? That might be the greatest asset that Republicans have, is that? And this whole rise of the DSA, who at a conference over the weekend, among the many things that they have a problem with is GLP ones.
They say basically they're fascists to lose weight and get fit. That is part of a bad message in society, to get in shape, to work out. I don't know what to say.
Well, I was flummoxed. I saw some of that reporting. I saw some of those videos over the weekend. Again, I think exercise is really important. I don't think exercise is a vestige of colonialism.
I think that's good. And capitalism. And capitalism, right? Look, there are so many issues in our country that need to be solved. This is not one of them.
And yet, if that's the message, I feel really good about our chances. Beatrice Alder Bolton says, argue that fitness is a measure of relative. Disposability under capitalism, and that the left should reject the idea that revolution depends on being physically optimized or fitter than fascists. Other conference themes were, of course, anti-Zionist. Don't like ice.
The health systems fascist. And tech oligarchy.
Well, right. I just have to say, if everything's fascist, then nothing's fascist. I think it's the way it goes. Look, one of the things that is. By the way, no one will accuse those socialists that I saw of going against their orthodoxy because they are not running to the treadmill.
Well, none of them were looking too fit. They didn't want to be fascist or label as hypocrites. They definitely are pushing back against that tradition of that traditional look. Hey, so one of the things that I worry about in our country, and social media exacerbates this, is the extremes get elevated to the top, right? And get so much attention.
And yet, like 70% of Americans hate what's happening in both parties right now. They hate that type of extremism that we're talking about today that is getting all of the attention. And let's be honest, I mean, they're winning some elections, right? They're winning some primaries at least. We'll see what happens in the general election.
What do you think the socialist candidate over in New Hampshire, do you think they have it he has a shot? I mean, I certainly hope not. This is where we'll see elections. Yeah, yeah. Elections have an opportunity to bring us back to reality.
You said something at the jump, at the very beginning, that you think that the pendulum is going to swing back to where we start to reward actually getting stuff done and working together and trying to figure things out. I'm starting to see that as I travel across the country, that there's kind of a hunger for that, that there's a rejection of this type of extreme DSA type of politics in both parties and hope for the future.
So I'm optimistic that Americans will respond in November. Yeah, I think too, a couple of things. You know, there's certain things that aren't going to change. For example, the Big Beautiful bill, they're going to do that in reconciliation. That is solely their agenda-driven.
But When Republicans realize after three years that the executive orders are going to go away and they're going to be totally reversed with a different stack, If a if Democrat wins They're going to be, I think, a rush because now they've made those tax cuts permits. You're going to have to pass another tax bill. Be tough. But I think that if you're going to sit there and say you're proud of immigration, you're proud to see on the border, but what are we going to do to people that are going to get a green card? What are we going to do because we are an American society that's birth rate has gone down?
We're going to need to replenish with first-round draft picks. Einstein chose here. Elon Musk chose here. These are immigrants that changed our country because they chose us. We have to make sure that they still, those scientists and geniuses choose us, don't you think?
Well, look, I hate executive orders for the reason that you just mentioned, because the next president could just undo everything we did. The founders understood that. That's why they made Congress the most powerful branch. It would be fun if Congress started acting like it and actually tried to get some stuff done. But to your point, you're right.
Look, I've been told for 40 years that you can't secure the border. I was told that with the last administration. I was in the White House. I specifically asked that question. Climate change was cutting the border to come down.
Remember that? That's exactly right. Yeah, no, that's it. And then President Trump did it. He secured the border.
He did the thing no one else could do.
So make green cards a little bit easier. Screen them hard. But screen them hard. This is the thing. Make work fees more prevalent.
We should not be taking American jobs. And I think people are rightly upset about that because that did happen. But we should be recruiting first-round draft picks, as you said so eloquently. And that's been our superpower for so long. Is that the best in the world want to be here, and we should want them here.
And Governor Cox, real quick, I'm very familiar with Canadian. that went to college here and he wanted to stay. And they said, well, what job are you going to have? And they said, we're going to finance you. We have plenty of that.
You're going to take an American job. He goes, What do you need? We need accountants.
So he goes, I'll look for an accountant job. He got an accountant job because the immigration told him, we got enough finance people. We don't need you. I don't really, I'm not against it, even though I wanted him to come here. I get it.
Systems working like that. That's right. But there's a lot of people in meatpacking, for example. If you can go in and organize it, you get people from another country that want to come work here. They go back.
Maybe they earn their way. Then they apply. Hey, they worked for me for six years. I'd like to sponsor them to come here. Set up a system.
That's all. When they're in a system, people won't resent it. We definitely need a system that works. And right now, we do not have a system that works. Utah Governor Spencer Cox got a brand new book out.
You got to grab it. Off-ramp, how to be a peacemaker in an age of contempt. Congratulations on the book and everything you've done, Governor. Hope to see you again soon. You're the best, Brian.
Thank you. Back in a moment.
