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Bruce Schneier joins us now. And Bruce, this administration is very pro-AI, and they're doing everything possible to beat China. Is that the right move? You know, I am optimistic about AI. I don't think the arms race is the right metaphor.
This is not the 1960s. This is not the way science works. It's very international. China produces deep seek, it's a model that advances, and we all see it. We all learn from the paper.
Google publishes papers, Microsoft does. It's not really an arms race. I do want to see us advancing, but it really has to be international because that's the way the science works. Right.
So, what AI has already done? How has it affected us already? They say, experts like you say this is dramatically hit us dramatically quicker than the whole internet of 2000. You know, it's hard to know. I mean, so AI is is a buzzword and a technology.
It's a lot of things. You use Apple or Google Maps, you're using AI. You're getting a feed from social media. AI is giving it to you. It's not the AI we think of, we think of it as chatbots.
There, you know, we're seeing a lot of experiments, not a lot of uses. I worry, I mean, it's not whether AI can take your job, it's whether AI can convince your boss that it can take your job, and then it's too late. Right, and you know, we're not seeing yet all the different ways AI can either augment or replace people. It is happening fast and advances are continuing, but I don't think we've seen big changes yet.
So, what changes have we seen? Like in country to country? It's not just the U.S., it's not just China. I mean, people are embracing this technology, it seems. But it is worldwide.
And no, it is not US versus China. Many other countries. Switzerland last month released a public AI model, not corporate, about as good as last year's best model, so almost to the top. But here's one not built on a near-term profit stack. Super interesting.
Singapore is building a model based on Southeast Asian languages because they are not represented well in these Western models. There's a lot of experimentation around the globe, but it is all happening in the open, in public. The arms race is a metaphor that the US tech giants want you to swallow because it just means they can run refshot over everything. But it's really not the way to think.
Okay, a couple of things that you do outline in your book and in these columns. Like, for example, in Japan, you talk about a 33-year-old engineer who is a fringe candidate in a field of 30, ends up coming in fifth. His party ends up playing a major role in Japanese politics because he used AI to go on YouTube and answer thousands of questions and seem tapped into the Japanese public.
So, this is actually a way better story than he wrote because two months ago, he got elected to the upper chamber in Japan, the upper chamber of the Daiac, equivalent to our Senate. And he now has a party. And in Japan, when you're a party, you get funding. He's using that funding to create AI tools to help government.
So he's building AI tools for sense-making, to be able to communicate with his constituents, understand what they want, and craft legislation or amend legislation to suit. It's kind of an amazing story. You're right, an engineer who's trying to re-engineer Japanese politics, but to be more responsive, to be more democratic. It is an amazing story. I actually spoke to him last week.
He's a really cool guy.
So, you also talk about in Brazil, there was a way to, I guess. Automate judicial procedures, not verdicts or opinions, but procedures because to organize caseloads. I mean, that's something where AI has helped, right?
So this is actually another really great story.
So Brazil is more litigious than the United States by a lot. They spend one percent of their GDP on litigation in that country, and the government spends another one percent paying out In cases against the government. They're using AI not to be judges, but to assign cases and workload and to figure out what to do, and it's working. It's reducing a multi-year backlog in cases. The weird part of that story is the attorneys are now using AI to file more cases.
So cases are being resolved faster, but more cases are being filed.
Now, this feels like a good democracy story. I mean, I want there to be litigation against government. That feels like a way for people to hold government accountable. And for that to be more efficient. is a good thing.
But we regularly see these AI arms races. One side uses it and then the other side uses it. And that, you know, and that all and that, how that shakes out, we just don't know the answer. Right.
So, and just a United States story in California, CalMatters, a nonprofit, nonpartisan news organization. What role did this play? All right, so I'm going to tell you about Calmados because you might actually like them. They're an organization that collects every public utterance by California officials, every floor speech, campaign email, tweet, everything, combines it with their voting record, and who funds them, and who lobbies them. And you, as a citizen, can go look at that database and just see what your legislator is doing.
They have a program just for journalists, so you can access it, I can't. It's called Tip Sheet. And what AI does is it looks through all of that and looks for anomalies. but doesn't publish them. It makes them available for human journalists to use.
to look at, do the research, and see if there's a story. It's a really interesting way we're doing citizen watchdogging. but with AI not doing not replacing the journalists, but augmenting their capabilities. And to be able to do that, you got to be a master at the command structure. Those are my terms, maybe not yours.
Like the command to form something like that, correct?
So CalMatters does, but what they did is they built this tip sheet.
So they did all that mastering of LLMs and queries and how to format things. And then they make it available in an easy to read form for journalists like you.
So interesting.
So that's some of the positives.
So we now understand in terms of the race itself. I was shocked to see Sam Altman. He was the first one to formally that I could see come out to the general public and say AI is going to revolutionize everything. And it's a little scary too. And he's fine.
You know, he announced open AI. And he says, by the way, I'm putting billions into it. I'm getting billions invested into it. And we're not going to be profitable at the earliest to 2030. And then we find out they're no longer perhaps the leader as Google rolls out Gemini, and they seem to have caught up.
And now he's saying it's an all-hands-on-deck moment for ChatBot GBT. I was wondering if you could give me an idea of who's doing what in this business. It's really interesting that all of the top-tier models are about the same. You'd imagine with these different skunk works doing secret stuff, they'd be different, but when you look at performance, They're all about the same. My guess is that these large models will never be profitable.
That you know, we don't want a chatbot that does everything. We want a chatbot that is a good travel agent, or a good investment counselor, or a good talk show host, right? You know, we want to do a specialized thing. And we're seeing these smaller, nimbler, cheaper models. That Swiss model should terrify.
The big companies. And this is two universities in Switzerland with some government funding and a supercomputer center they had lying around from particle physics days. They built a model that is like, 12 months p uh 12 months behind the leading models. That's freaking amazing. And we're seeing more countries do that, more organizations do that.
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Use promo code Brian for 15% off of any purchase of $100 or more, that's promo code BRIAN. That's so interesting because we remember in 2000 You know, we heard we thought every one of these dot-coms were going to be um so profitable when in the end there's only a handful that survived and so much money was lost, the so-called dot-com bubble. You know, Bruce, I know you're an expert on AI, maybe more than less so for finances, but should people be worried about an AI bubble? You know, I mean, I am so I'm not a finance expert, but we know that the Dow is being propped up by these seven companies. We know that there's massive investments.
I mean, the wildcard is tech advances. I mean, they are pushing for Breakthroughs.
Now, we don't know, I mean, we don't know whether these LLMs will get incrementally better as we give them more compute and more data, or if we reach the plateau, right? I mean, recently, the chief AI scientist at Meta left to form his own company because he thinks that. These LLMs are a dead end. We've seen their trick. We've got to do something else.
And he has a bunch of new ideas.
So we could see these revolutions at any time. We can't predict them. But right now with current tech I'm betting on the smaller, cheaper, sometimes not even corporate models.
So it's already revolutionized warfare in real time in the Ukraine-Russia war. These drones aren't being flown by men or women with joysticks in a basement. They're now programmed, AI programmed, I understand. They basically give them the message. It's up to them to get to the target, explode the target.
uh on their own They're figuring it out. Uh it amazes me. Does it amaze you? I mean, it is, and your audience needs to understand that these are not LLMs. AI is bigger.
We always talk about the chatbots. And of image generators, the large language models. There's a lot of predictive AI. The AI is giving you turn-by-turn directions. is not a a chatbot.
The AI that is piloting that drone The AI that is looking through information. Trying to find correlations, that is reading your chest x-rays, those are not chat buffs. They are equally revolutionary, but they're different. They're smaller, they're more precisely created, they do one thing. You know, very well or marginally well.
And right, it's revolutionizing warfare, it's revolutionizing elections. I saw two weeks ago the first AI model that is used for door knockers. The people on election day go door to door, knocking on the support of their candidate, get out to the polls, I can drive you.
So now there is an AI that tells them where to go, what to say, who they're talking to. Gives them feedback. I mean, so something as tactical as that that matters in U.S. elections all over the country. Is being revolutionized by AI.
And Bruce Schneier, our guest, he's talking about his book, Rewiring Democracy.
So, Bruce, I imagine. A lot of so-called consultants or Republican and Democratic experts are going to be looking to explore this. I remember, I think it was we had somebody, it was with Howard Dean's campaign. They talked about micro-targeting people, being able to get into neighborhoods and finding out in that household who votes for whom. And we thought that was revolutionary.
So, do you think the first party that understands what they can do with AI is going to have a huge impact like that party in Japan? Do you think any party is really digesting this fully and seeing what it can do?
So both parties are. Generally, it's separate companies that work with either party. Several things we're seeing. We're seeing AIs that help people run for office.
Now, don't think of Congress or Senate. Think of local office. Think of city council. No money, no time, no budget, no expertise. AI is helping candidates, sometimes parties, sometimes not allied candidates for, like, you know, just I don't know, police something where you're just not a party candidate, uh, for polling.
enormous amount of AI being used to help with opinion polls. I mean, it's a little weird, you're asking AI not a person, but you can ask NAI a million questions. And the last thing is in formulating campaign strategy. And AI is helping that in the U.S. and around the globe.
It's a party in Argentina that did an enormous amount of that last year. Wow, Bruce, fascinating stuff. You're on the cutting edge. You're tackling one of the most difficult, fast-moving topics in all the world. Bruce Sneyer, thanks so much.
Congratulations on your book that everyone should go out and get. Thanks so much, Bruce. Thank you. This is Ainsley Earhart. Thank you for joining me for the 52-episode podcast series, The Life of Jesus.
A listening experience that will provide hope, comfort, and understanding of the greatest story ever told. Listen and follow now at FoxNewsPodcasts.com or wherever you listen to podcasts.
