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One of our all-time great guests, Dr. Arthur Brooks, is here, Harvard professor, Atlanta columnist, host of Office Hours Podcast, best-selling author of The Happiness Files: Insights on Work and Life. And he has a new book coming out, too, which I can't wait to find out more about. And also, he's got a new article, How to Heal Our Country, which is a big thing to say. And also, How to Make Your Individual Life Better, Healthier, Right, Arthur?
Yeah, for sure. I teach happiness at Harvard, and that's wraparound happiness, man. How do you do it for a country? How do you do it for yourself? How do you do it for your family?
And it's all based on science.
So, this is not just self-improvement. This is the neuroscience and behavioral science of how to be a happier person. And are you still learning this? Oh, yeah, for sure. It's a goal for the rest of my life.
You know, I got my PhD about 30 years ago, and I've been studying this stuff, but over the past seven years, I've dedicated myself completely to human happiness and what it actually means. You know, the science of how this actually works, how you can change your habits and protocols, and then teach it to other people, so your family. And the people around you can get happier too. And you did you teach this past semester? Yeah, I mean, I teach in the spring.
So I teach in the spring up at Harvard, and I'll have 180 students in my class starting in January. I'll have 400 on the waiting list. There will probably be an illegal Zoom link they think I don't know about. Right. And this could be it must feel good to have that type of.
It's fantastic. It's the best. You know, it's, you know, we get one pass through this mortal coil, man. And you can make life better for people. You can make life worse for people.
And I dedicated myself, look, I'm a Christian. And I said, I'm going to dedicate my Christian faith to my secular job. And I want to make people happier. I want to help people understand how to have more love in their life is what it comes down to. And I'm a scientist, so I got to do the science behind it.
It's great. What's the relationship between success and happiness?
So, that's an interesting thing that most people don't get right. And here's the key thing to remember: Mother Nature doesn't care if you're happy. Mother Nature wants you to survive and pass on your genes. Happiness is your job, is what it comes to. Everybody listening to us, happiness is something that you have to choose and do things that actually stand up to your natural impulses.
So you want to have more money, more power, more pleasure, more admiration of other people. And that'll give you more, you know, all of the stuff that the world promises, but it won't bring you more happiness, is the problem.
So, what I tell my students is: you think success will bring you happiness. Going for happiness directly, which comes from faith, family, friendship, and work that serves other people, then you'll be successful enough.
So, what role does in more practical purposes? Let's say you have this, you have great friends, you have a great family, but you have to stress every day, which a lot of people listening to us right now. Yeah. Was it the number 70% of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck? Yeah.
They worry one thing goes wrong. They don't worry about the safety net.
Social security won't be enough. That's real worry. How do you figure happiness? How do you work happiness into that? Yeah.
So the problem with that is that these real world tensions and anxieties, they actually don't hurt your happiness, but they raise your unhappiness. And happiness and unhappiness are not opposites.
So you can be a very happy person and also have a lot of sources of unhappiness in your life. The key thing to keep in mind is that you do the best you can to lower these sources of unhappiness. You find the best job that you can. You have a good relationship with other people who can help you, et cetera, et cetera. But then focus on the real sources of your happiness, which all come from love.
Love that you have with God, love that you have with your family and friends, love toward the whole world through the way that you're trying to serve is the way that that works.
So you think about, you know, obviously a balance through that. Yeah, for sure. You can't change the whole world, but you can change yourself. Focus on the things that you can actually change to become a happier person. And is it the voice?
What do you do with the voice in your head that wants more? I know.
Well, that's Mother Nature, once again. And that's one of the reasons that every religion and every philosophy has always said, stand up to your nature, man. I mean, there's kind of two parts about being a person. Your dog. You have a dog, Brian.
Two. You have two dogs. Your dogs really only have animal impulses. They're awesome. They act like humans, but they really have an animal impulse.
We have this part of our brain called the prefrontal cortex right behind our foreheads. It's huge. It's a supercomputer that gives us more than animal impulses. We also have moral aspirations. We can make decisions in spite of our animal impulses.
And that's what we're trying to do all day long. If you live with your animal impulses, you'll just get drunk every night. You'll sleep in every morning. You won't show up for work. You'll cheat on your spouse.
And that's because your animal impulses say, that don't feel good. Don't do it. You want to live up to your moral aspirations, and then you get happier by making conscious decisions. And it becomes a habit, right? Totally.
You start showing that discipline, it becomes a habit, and then it becomes a reinforcement. Animal habits reinforce themselves, moral habits reinforce themselves as well. Is there a number that you should go through in order for it to be a habit? People talk about how many days you should do something, whether it's a diet or exercise. It depends on what you're actually doing.
So, you find, for example, exercise, generally speaking, takes about six weeks, four times a week, doing exactly the same thing.
So, I put people, I do a lot of work on biology too. I mean, I do a lot of work on wrap-around wellness, health and wellness. And I'm a real gym rat and fitness guy. And so, what I tell people is if they want to start working out. If you're doing people not watching and not watching the stream, you're in unbelievable shape.
At 61, I feel better than when I was 31. That's for sure. And because I've got my diet and exercise on point. Yeah, totally. I work out seven days a week, an hour a day.
But nobody's going to do that from nothing. The way to do that is to do a workout, usually a cardio, a zone two cardio workout. That means like a little elliptical thing. You're going for a really brisk walk. Four days a week for six weeks, and then start getting fancier.
But four times a week for six weeks, and then it becomes a habit, and then we'll talk about how to make it fancier. Right, one bill is on the other. How do you feel about the shortcuts? Which ones? Zeptide or whatever.
Zeppbound, Zeppbound, Munjaro, the GLP-1 drugs. Those things are a miracle, actually. And what they do is they actually. Among other things. I mean, they're thought of as obesity drugs, but they're changing behavior as well.
They're changing other kinds of bad habits. People take them and find they don't want to smoke anymore. People take them and they don't want to eat junk food so much anymore or drink alcohol anymore.
So it's kind of an amazing thing because what it does is it interrupts the reward cycle in your brain where you get these big, big dopamine-based rewards for these particular behaviors. And so they're a great thing and they can be a good adjunct to how you're trying to improve your life.
So when you see so, you know. Serena Williams, and when you see Charles Barkley, say, Yeah, that's what I'm on. I mean, that's changed even since the last time I talked to you. People were taking it and they said, Well, I'm not going to tell anyone.
Now it's out there. Here's why I think it would be good.
So, you think to yourself, no matter what I do, I can't lose weight. And some people do work out and they don't get the reward they want.
Well, you can't out-exercise a bad diet, can't be done. Can't be done. You got to change the behavior of the input of what you're putting in your mouth and not just actually how you're spending exercise.
Sorry to interrupt. Yeah, because it'll lessen the weight, but you're not going to get the tone. You're not going to get the muscle. But it's a jumpstart to say, wow, look what's possible. Yeah, that's true.
You know, it gets you out of a rut and ready to go. Yeah, totally. I mean, I got nothing against those particular things.
Now, the whole idea that a lot of people who don't really need to lose weight and doing it for pure vanity reasons, that's another psychological problem. Vanity will mess you up. Vanity will ruin the quality of your life. That's just the truth. If you're looking in the mirror thinking all day long, what do people think of me?
What do people think about how I look? That per se is a problem, actually.
So if that's the reason you're using it. Why are you working out? I'm working out because it's for three basic reasons. I get up in the morning at 4:30, 4:45 to 5:45. I work out every day for three reasons.
Number one is mood management. By the way, can I also tell you that it's hard to roll out of bed and work out? Yeah, that's a habit. It's a habit. It's a habit.
And it's a habit without doing it without coffee because I drink my coffee much later. And you and I have talked about this before.
So, number one is I'm trying to manage negative mood. The best way to manage negative mood is picking up heavy things and running around. And if you have a naturally negative mood, which half the population is above average in negative mood, they just are. And it tends to be most acute first thing in the morning. Don't drink alcohol.
Don't take drugs. Don't be a workaholic. Don't blunt your feelings by distracting yourself with behavior and substances. There are two things to do: pray more, worship more. Religion is incredibly good for negative mood.
And number two is work out, go to the gym, pick up heavy things, go work, run around. And that's what I do first thing in the morning. That's why. Arthur Brooks is with us. And he's, what's the name of your new book coming out?
The new book is coming out. It's coming out March 31st of 2026: The Meaning of Your Life, Finding Purpose. In an age of enterprise. Wow. Where do you start with that book?
Oh, man. This has been five years in the making. It's the hardest book I ever wrote. Topic sentence is tough enough. I know.
So. Couple of things. This is what I find interesting, is that when you go to countries Developing countries. Their goal, especially early men, their goal is: we got to eat every day, we got to find shelter every day. You know, early, like you study early Americans when they start moving west.
Right. Well, we got to find a place to live. We got to find out there's going to be a road. We've got to find out what we're going to eat. Right.
You don't have. Necessary time to go, what makes me happy? You have goals called survival, and then hopefully success and wealth. And then you read about these stories in these accounts. But There's something healthy about that.
And it just wipes out a lot of the outside sources. I'm not really worried about my biceps. I'm not worried about my chest development. Man, I gotta make sure that this move I'm making with my family works out and I'm not gonna be attacked by the American Indians and things to that nature. And that's what you see in a lot of developing countries today.
Survival is the key. That's a different situation than what Americans deal with because survival in most cases is not an issue. Right. No, that's right.
Now, the problem is that when you have avoidable sources of misery, like caloric deficits, or your kids don't get vaccines, or you can't send your kids to school, that actually does raise a lot of unhappiness. That really does raise a lot of unhappiness. That's true. The problem is that when you actually are not thinking in the way that your brain was intended to think, which is about doing your work every day and your basic relationships and focusing on the people around you. And, you know, I'll tell you, you know, my great-grandfather was a farmer, and there's one thing he never once said.
I mean, he had a hard life, and his job was really boring. And, you know, he didn't know if there's going to be food on the table. But he never once went home and said to my great-grandmother, honey, I had a panic attack behind the mule today. No, because that didn't exist, is the whole point. And part of the reason was like his life could have been better and mine is, but he was using his brain the way that nature intended for him to use his brain, which was focusing on the here and now, doing his work, taking care of his family, and not looking at the stupid screen in his pocket.
So he wouldn't need your course. No, no, no. He would not need your course, would he? There's certain things that actually could have been better, you know, that he could have learned more of, but he could have taught a lot of things to me too, because his brain was working the way evolution intended it.
So, I mean, we get to a certain point. Do you believe? And with these kids and the therapists that are in school, that we're working almost, we're giving. Kids Too much therapy, too much convenience, worried about too much of their thought, worried so much. I mean, bullying obviously is a problem, especially if it's health.
But a lot of the friction that kids go through with parents that weren't necessarily there, or school teachers, and nurses, and psychologists that weren't even employed, or perhaps at your school. Those things that you learn to work through through high school and through grammar school, a lot of kids are getting the soft landing with therapy and there's something wrong, and we can work with you. Are you under the school of thought that there's a lot of um There's a lot of negativity to that, even though the objective is correct. In the current day, the way that we understand adolescents' mental health, a lot of it's misguided. There's this idea that if you're sad and anxious, there's something wrong with you and you got to cure it.
That's incorrect. I tell my students, look, you study at Harvard. If you're not sad and anxious, you need therapy. It's a hard thing that you're doing, and good for you. You're making sacrifices and you're struggling, and that's life on earth, man.
And you don't need, you should never try to eliminate your suffering. Your suffering is sacred. You learn from your suffering, you learn how to manage your suffering. By suffering.
Now, it couldn't be dysregulated. You can be depressed and anxious, and there can be a medical problem, to be sure. But the idea of eliminating suffering-that's a misguided approach and it's making things worse. You could solve a multitude of problems with some relatively simple protocols for a lot of young people. Take away the phone and go run around outside.
That's number one. For a lot of young people, it just solves a multitude of problems. And to back up your thoughts, Arthur, is these people that, and most schools are doing this now, making the kids put their phones away, whether it's in a box or leave it at home, almost all the kids are embracing this as well as the teachers. They love it. But of course, it's hard to do, and 27 states are still not doing it.
There's not one classroom in America from kindergarten through PhD that should have one phone in it. And that just takes fortitude and courage on the part of politicians, and it's going to raise mental health dramatically. This is a new problem. Yeah. And it was like one of those things where you put a frog in the water and you slowly make the water hotter.
You didn't even know what the water was a problem.
So when we first invented this, I never remember as of The Blackberry went to the iPhone. People aren't saying this could be a problem. I always thought about the possibility. Yeah. I mean, this is what technology is.
Do you recognize there's a problem?
Well, yeah, because I'm a behavioral scientist and I was looking at this. And, you know, I pall around with guys like Jonathan Haidt down at New York University, who wrote The Anxious Generation, a great book. There's no small talk about it. About how this works.
Well, you know, it's like it's when we do Shop Talk. It's like when you're talking with one of your buddies here at Fox, you know, you're talking about the business. And it's true. We saw actually this thing coming a long time. And we've been collecting data and doing studies on this as well.
We can solve this problem with proper discipline, proper protocols, good schooling, and good parenting. And I'm sure that we will solve this problem. It's just a lot of damage along the way. One thing that's working against me and my texting is spell check. Yeah.
Because most of the time it doesn't know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. And I gotta check it more. But that's pretty much my problem. It's the people I text that are unhappy about it.
Arthur Brooks is here. He's got some great things. Also, when we come back, when you should have your coffee and why and how you should start your day if you want to be happy, don't move. Illuminating, intriguing, inculcating. I know some of these words.
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That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent. And I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erica.
But now Erika can talk to me and the whole group, and maybe they can convince me that that's not right, but I can't stand my opponent. Charlie's angry. Look at that. He's angry at me now.
So I think that's perfect for our next segment. Arthur Brooks, we have a few more minutes with the Harvard Professor, best-selling author. His podcast is also very successful. It's called He's a Host of Office Hours. You can get it on Spotify.
Dr. Brooks, the name of your column is basically forgive your enemies. That's what I thought. That would be love your enemies. Don't forgive them.
Love them. All right.
So I think Trump was having fun with that. Of course. But you were shaking your head. No, he's being provocative. And I got it.
I was the National Prayer Breakfast keynote speaker in 2020. And I was on the dais with Donald Trump. And, you know, that was the morning that he had been acquitted from his second or third or 40th, whatever it was, the time he was impeached by the Democrats. And he comes out and I was given a speech called Love Your Enemies and Pray for Those Who are Percy. It's a National Prayer Breakfast.
And Donald Trump, he's such a great performer, I have to say. And he gets up and he says, I love a good speech by Arthur Brooks. But. But I gotta say, I disagree. You know, and and it's like the the the the gall to get up and disagree with Jesus at the national prayer breakfast.
But you know, it's half his tongue-in-cheek. Of course, of course, he's a performer. He's a performer, absolutely. But he's, you know, he's trying it's very hard. You but loving your enemies.
Yeah. And what Erica what Erica did do. Erica Kirk did do by saying, I forgive the assassin of my husband. I mean, that's. That's an incredible example for your premise.
Yeah, well, here, the important thing to keep in mind is that Jesus didn't say to like your enemies. Martin Luther King gave a sermon on this part of the gospel. This is Matthew 5:44, the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus says, You've heard that you should love your friends and hate your enemies. Today I give you a new teaching: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Hardest teaching ever. But that means you have to make the decision notwithstanding your feelings. And that's really what we're talking about. People. You can get out of that die doing that.
How does that help you? That gives you control because when you're not hating and somebody else is, you have control. You have cognitive control. You have literally more power. That doesn't mean you have to like somebody, invite them over for dinner.
It doesn't mean you have to be best friends with them and have tender feelings toward them. It has nothing to do with your feelings at all. It's the decision that you make. Actually, to will the good of another person. And sometimes the good of the other person requires that you do a really, really hard thing that they don't like.
But never do it out of hate because if you do, you're weak. I mean, you're not actually going to be as effective as you could be. And do you practice that? I try. I try.
I pray about that every day. It's very important to me to actually practice that. I don't like everybody, but I'm commanded by my master to love everybody. On a lighter note, what have you found out? You were talking about your schedule before, how you work out right away and you get going, but you wait a while to have coffee because health is very much a part of your school.
Absolutely. And one of the things that we understand about coffee, coffee actually blocks a neurotransmitter called adenosine. Coffee doesn't pep you up. Coffee blocks you from actually feeling lethargic. That's how it works.
Adenosine is one of these circulating neurochemicals that makes you feel groggy, makes you go to sleep at night. And there's a lot of it in your brain when you first wake up, and that's why you feel groggy. It'll get blocked by caffeine. Don't do that. Let it clear naturally.
That way you won't have a crash and you can use it to focus on your work a state. In 20 seconds left, what should we plug for Arthur Brooks? What books should we get of yours? Oh, the last one is the Happiness Files: Insights on Life and Work. I get through it.
I downloaded it, even though you gave me a couple inch of copy.
So you got money there. Thanks, man. Thanks. It's Will Tane Country. Watch it live at noon Eastern Monday through Thursday at Foxnews.com or on the Fox News YouTube channel.
And don't miss the show. Listen and follow the podcast five days a week at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts. Yeah.
