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He's a fantastic writer, columnist, and we know too his book is called On Democracies and Death Colds. Welcome Douglas. Great to see you.
Almost. Great to be back with you Brian. So Douglas, first off before we get to your book, your thought about the the dramatics that have taken place with this, with all the tariffs. Well, I think, you know, we have to accept that whether people are pro them or anti them, this is what Trump said he was going to do and he's delivering on what he said he was going to do. I think that much of the outrage that we see in parts of the media and so on is an outrage that a president is actually doing what he said on the campaign trail and repeatedly in the debates and much more than he was intending to do. Obviously there's a lot of short-term volatility about that in the markets as there's going to be, but Trump is clearly looking to the long term. His long-term issue is, as he has said repeatedly, every rally of his that I reported from on the campaign trail always it was the same thing.
He talks about the threat to American jobs from China and other countries importing cheap goods to the US and undercutting the American market and doing down not just the American worker but the American taxpayer and purchaser as well. So we'll see how it rolls out, but I'm not surprised there's some upset about it. Right, absolutely, and we see that it's really going to turn into a one-on-one with China and we'll see who can win the staring contest.
Here's President Trump yesterday, cut two. Deal's going to be made with every one of them and they'll be fair deals. I just want fair.
They will be fair deals for everybody. I think the word would be flexible. You have to be flexible.
You have to be able to show a little flexibility and I'm able to do that. I think you probably know better than me, but I really think Stormer of the UK wants to do a deal. He wanted a free trade deal. Every prime minister's want one since you guys had Brexit. I think that might be one of the deals that the president, the 17, the president says they're working on right now.
What have you heard? It's one of the easiest deals to do. There's great good feeling between both countries during the, as you say, the post-2016 Brexit period. I saw up close the attempt to make the trade deal. There was great enthusiasm from the first Trump administration as there is from this one. It was all put on hold during the Biden time because Pelosi, Biden, Schumer and the rest of them, they, I don't know what Biden was thinking, but we know that Pelosi and others were just not in favor of a UK-US trade deal and that was to the detriment of both countries.
So I hope very much that this is one of the ones that is oven ready and it should be ready to go. Douglas, one of the reasons I love your columns is you don't just talk to people, go to a think tank and then write a column. You go to the theaters of war. You go where the countries are. You went to Israel, you never lived there, but you were so moved by what you saw and so upset by the misreporting about what actually happened.
You wrote this book. Tell me what you saw. I'd visited Israel many times as I had many other places in the region. Uh, but on October the 7th I was in New York in my home and the next day I went down to Times Square where there was an anti-Israel pro-Hamas protest in Times Square, New York as the massacres were still going on, praising the massacres.
And I thought then I've got to get there as soon as possible, really for two reasons. Firstly, to report what had happened on the 7th. There are stories of the world just does not know both about Israel's failures to expect it. The breakdowns that undoubtedly happened at the military and political and intelligence level, but also more importantly, perhaps the stories of the victims and the heroes of the day.
Many of these stories of the heroic people, civilian and military of the day are simply not known. And I wanted to bring them out. But the second thing is I knew from that moment that there would, in Times Square, that there would of course have to be a major war to get back the hostages, the Israeli hostages, including American hostages. And don't forget there's one still there, Eden Alexander from New Jersey 21, still being held hostage by Hamas in Gaza. I knew that there would be a war to get the hostages back and to destroy Hamas. And I also knew that the world's media would not be paying attention closely enough and they would misreport it and that there would be a backlash against Israel.
Everything I expected was correct, but I decided to be with the army embedded in Gaza, in Lebanon and in Israel and to see firsthand Israel's response. And I not only report that, report those two stages of it, but it's also a reflection on a much bigger question. The book is a reflection on why, since this was the biggest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, why do we have so many people in our society in America who sided with the Nazis, who sided with the death cult, who sided with the people who did the rapes and murders and beheadings of October the 7th? Why have we produced a generation on American campuses and elsewhere? And it's not just the campuses. The other day, Union Station was shut down in New York by pro-Hamas activists, hundreds and hundreds of them cheering support for their favorite murderers.
Why have we got so many of these people in our midst and what can we do about it? You know, it hearkens back when you opened up this story saying in New York there were protests in support against Israel and for the Palestinian cause. And you think to yourself, where did that come from? And then you find out in researching these Palestinian organizations who have infiltrated these campuses, many of which have foreign students in them, leading them like Khalil, Mahmoud Khalil. There was coordination. I mean, it was probably out there where these groups knew what was taking place. I mean, that's pretty clear. Yes.
And there's another thing about that that has to be remembered. These groups that have infiltrated America, and I use that word wisely, they have infiltrated America, foreign money, including Qatari money, very, very large sums of this Qatari money have come in and polluted our institutions. These people leading them do not just want the destruction of Israel, or they certainly want that first. The stated aim of the group at Columbia University, led by this guy Khalil, is quote, the complete destruction of Western civilization. I'll say it again, the complete destruction of Western civilization.
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Go to selectquote.com slash Spotify pod today to get started. So, Douglas Murray is with us now. He's talking about his brand new book that is called On Democracies and Death Cults, Israel and the Future of Civilizations. So this is what the president said yesterday about a showdown with Iran.
And I was a little bit surprised by it. Here is a here's what he said. Cut 25. You said the other day that if they do not agree to a potential nuclear deal, that it would be very dangerous for them. What specifically do you mean? Did you mean military action, though, if they don't agree? Oh, if necessary? Absolutely. Yeah. Do you have a deadline for these talks? Yeah, I do. You're talking about with Iran?
Yes. Do you have something definitive this weekend or do you see this as a start of a process? It's a start.
We have a little time, but we don't have much time. Because we're not going to let them have a nuclear weapon. And we're going to let them thrive.
I want them to thrive. I want Iran to be great. The only thing they can't have is a nuclear weapon. And they're also supporting terror throughout the region. But and they also got to get rid of intercontinental ballistic missiles.
Cut 26, though, is what hit me. But with Iran, yeah, if we if it requires military, we're going to have military. Israel will obviously be very much involved in that. He'll be the leader of that. But nobody leads us.
We do what we want to do. But the president saying Israel, I'm sure that's what the prime minister brought up when they were in the Oval Office. I don't think he rushed over here for a trade deal. What do you think, Douglas?
I agree. I think that the reports that this meeting between Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Trump this week must have involved the trade deal discussions. But of course, Iran would have been foremost at the discussions. It's very important for people to realize, I think, and almost nobody outside the region realizes this, that Iran, the Iranian revolutionary government, we should say, is a jihadist government that has taken control of Iran in a violent coup since 1979. It has killed, tortured, oppressed the Iranian people since 1979.
But it has never been content with only doing that. It is also the biggest colonialist movement across the Middle East. It stepped in and colonized Iraq after the American-led invasion in 2003. It stepped in and colonized Syria.
It stepped in and colonized Lebanon and indeed Yemen. And if you look at the whole region, Israel has been forced to fight these wars against Iran's armies of Hamas and Hezbollah. It has decimated both groups, destroyed them.
I've seen it firsthand. The leadership of both groups is almost entirely dead. But the backers in Tehran, the Iranian revolutionary mullahs in Tehran, remain in place. And maybe Trump can be the historic president who reigns them back in. But he knows that he has to be the president who ensures that the mullahs do not get the world's most dangerous weapons. Because if people like the way that the mullahs in Tehran act when they don't have a nuclear weapon, they're going to love how they act when they have one. So right now, I'm not sure the political process how secure Netanyahu is.
He seems to be secure. But if you remember what he did in the 80s with Iraq's nuclear program, Reagan didn't want him to take it out. George W. Bush said, I'm not going to take out the Syrian nuclear program. So Israel did. There is nobody who thinks that Israel is not going to act. The question is, will we give them the weaponry to actually penetrate with the bunker busters necessary to destroy the program?
What do you hear, Douglas? That's right. In fact, it's not just the weaponry. It's actually a particular plane that America has which can carry the munitions required. I think that obviously this is something which America can cooperate on. But as President Trump said, it doesn't need to lead on. It needs to lead politically. It needs to lead in terms of the expression of military power. But it does not need to lead the mission in terms of the intelligence or anything else. Israeli pilots are trained, as they were in the 80s, to take out Saddam Hussein's reactor.
They are trained to take out the nuclear reactors that exist in Iran that are working overtime to produce the materials for the nuclear bomb. But America can, of course, is important for being in on it, is vital for being in on it. And so I suspect that the discussion that is going on is an issue of timing, among other things, and simple pressure against the mullahs. Because President Trump has always said, I think he's right to say, that he wants to make sure that this can be done peacefully, if possible, that Iran is dissuaded from pursuing this weaponry. But if it can't be dissuaded peacefully, then the other option has to be on the table. I'm particularly glad, I have to say, that a leader has made this clear, because there have been years, indeed decades, of negotiations that have really not stopped the Iranians getting closer to the bomb.
So thank goodness President Trump is saying what he is. Douglas, congratulations on the book. I look forward to talking to you again on TV and maybe in a longer segment on radio. Thanks so much.
Go out and pick it up. It is called On Democracies and Death Cults, Israel and the Future of Civilization. Douglas, thanks so much.
Great pleasure to be with you and your listeners, Brian. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes.
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