You're listening to Breakpoint This Week, where we're talking about the top stories of the week from a Christian worldview. Today, we're going to talk about Tuesday's elections. What do they mean for the so-called vibe shift that we've been witnessing? We're also going to talk about new attention from the Trump administration on the violence against Christians in Nigeria. We are so glad to have you with us this week.
Stick around. Welcome to Breakpoint This Week. From the Coulson Center for Christian Worldview, I'm Maria Baer, alongside John Stone Street. John, there was a little bit of an election this week, and we've talked before about. In some cases, what we hope is a vibe shift culturally on a lot of political issues and pre-political issues.
But this week, as you know, many, many Democrats won in some surprising ways. The most high-profile of these might be the new mayor of New York City, Zoran Mamdani, who describes himself as a democratic socialist and is Muslim. We also have. big Democratic winners in New Jersey and Virginia. And not to get into all the politics of this, but does this signal something culturally for you?
You know, I think it signals less politically than we're hearing. And I think it's because You know, you're talking about New York, New Jersey, and even Virginia, which has really been back and forth. And I've been a little bit surprised by that. That Winsom Sears did not win. I'm a fan, also as a native Virginian.
It's interesting, too, that the vast majority of white voters in Virginia voted for a black woman, even though she did not win. That's an interesting challenge to the attempt to racialize the narrative of the United States in ways that has been pretty common over the last decade or really a couple decades, but really a part of the critical theory mood that we're kind of It seems like there's some more pushback on. There's just. Explanations of the political realities that point to these kind of cultural or ideological frameworks, and they just have proven to be inadequate.
So all these things I think are interesting things to talk about. But to me, the moment is defined by the fact that 25 years after Islamic terrorists inflicted An incredible and horrific terror attack on the city of New York. to the point that we now call it ground zero, That same city elected A Muslim and also a socialist, really a communist in many ways. And That this candidate was kind of widely embraced by the pop by the party on the left. There was some hesitation from some of the older party leaders to embrace Mandani.
But many did, and many of the young ones did. And, you know, he seems to have a moment now. I think there's a whole lot of people saying it's no big deal. Because what he's going to show is just how bad socialism is and how it doesn't work. And it's good that it's in New York City, and you know, we'll be able to kind of see it, and it'll.
You know. b basically change everyone's mind, particularly the young people. But it really was the young people, wasn't it? I mean, if you saw some of the exit polls, it was like: if you're under 40 in New York City, you voted for this guy. And this guy is a is a Muslim.
This guy is someone who took very clear sides about Israel and Gaza. Even an apologist in some ways for Hamas, and then also. Kind of the narrative of socialism.
So you kind of go back and you say, you know, is this a memory problem? And I think when it comes to the political direction memory. or the lack of memory has a lot to do with it. But that is an astonishing thing. Because it Pulls us back.
You know, we've kind of been in a. kind of a a 10-year fog between how drastically politics is going back and forth. And so it's easy to think that that's the whole story. But if you go back to a book by Samuel Huntington, Harvard Prof, looking at. The end of the Cold War and beyond.
writing before the turn of the century. He posed a thesis called The Clash of Civilizations. That the next stage of world history, he said, would be defined not by a clash of nations. But by a clash of civilizations. And these civilizations sometimes transcend nations, and sometimes they.
You know, the dividing line is right in between nations, and the dividing line between civilizations are fault lines, you know, is what he called them. You know, where there's going to be friction, there's going to be action. And the hottest. of those fault lines was going to be between Islam and the rest, but specifically Islam and the West.
Now, if you think back kind of where we've been, 9-11. you know The world was at peace, and then suddenly it wasn't, right? Communism was dead. There was only us left in the world. There were no more enemies to be fought.
And then 9-11 happened and everyone said, oh, well, maybe this idea, we need to start paying attention to Islam. It's now kind of emerged out of the shadows of the developing world. you know, parts of Africa and Asia and has now become A force to be reckoned with in the West. And, you know, remember, we followed the attacks in New York with attacks in. France and attacks in London and and and attacks in other western cities.
In a lot of ways, some of those big players back then, ISIS. Al-Qaeda have been pushed back into some of these kind of historically Islamic. A country's We've talked about the persecution of Christians within Nigeria. We're going to talk more about some of those developments even later on in this program. But that clash between Islam and the rest of the world is still something that is very, very present.
And you kind of think, are we asleep at the wheel here, underestimating? I mean, just this past week. Abdu Muri, our friend, did a breakpoint commentary, and he mentioned. You know, this foiled plot by the FBI of another terrorist attack. And so, you know, what is this?
thing of Islam. It isn't gone. And to have the lack of memory That goes back 25 years to 9-11. Or in this case, you know, that hey, we fought the Cold War against communism. Communism is not what we want in the United States.
It just seems like memory and cultural memory is a really important part of a civilization's worldview. You know, are we remembering what we need to remember? That you know, that's the takeaway for me from You know, these results. Maybe it's a little much. Maybe I'm squeezing too much juice out of the orange here.
It just seems to be a thing. I don't see Mamdani as a serious Muslim. I think he has clearly used it to his political advantage, but he certainly does not seem orthodox. You cannot be a committed Marxist and be an Islamist. Those two world views are diametrically opposed as well.
I take more of an issue with his Marxism and communism, and I share your concern about a cultural memory issue there. I think being an open socialist and particularly an open socialist who's running for office has to be one of the most hubristic things you could possibly do, if that's a word, because essentially what you have to say and believe Is everyone who's ever tried this before simply didn't do it right, and you'll do it right for some reason. And that is really, really, truly like pathologically remarkable to me, as well as the people who say, yes, let's give it a go. And I remember when he first was kind of rising to ascendance, you and I talked about it because we were kind of shocked when he kind of came onto the stage. And do you recommended that book by Eric Hoffer, True Believer?
Because I think I asked you like. I can't believe people, you know, wealthy people or people in one of the wealthiest cities in the world would vote for somebody like this who's talking about raising the minimum wage to $30 an hour and freezing rent and whatever. And you said, read this book because people will give up a lot. in the service of of something else And they'll give up things that you wouldn't expect, including their wealth. And their prosperity and their austerity, and whatever else.
And I read Eric Hoffer's book, and it was terrifying. Um and I do see part of that here. He was talk Hoffer was writing more about like more catastrophe level cultural movements. And I'm not saying that the moment we're in isn't serious, but I see more of. Mom Danny's election as evidence that life right now, especially for young people.
Has become a lot of posturing. And I think social media and technology has created that world for us. And people viewed voting for him as A way to personally brand yourself. Voting for almost anybody is kind of filling that function anymore, more than it used to anyway. And that's what it feels like.
He was very, he's very young and charming and good looking and energetic and all, and he's saying all sort of the right things. And, you know, he's not willing to condemn Hamas, like you said, and all this kind of stuff. Nobody is really thinking too long or deeply about actual policies, whether they're salient, whether he's actually able to put them in practice, whether they're good ideas. It's more a posture to vote for him. And that, don't get me wrong, that is also incredibly concerning.
But I think that to me feels more like the story here, more so than like this is an infiltration of Islam, which I also agree we should be worried about. I'm more worried about Dearborn, Michigan. Than I am about Mamdani, but that's kind of how I see it. Yeah, and I think it's valid. I think it's almost always the case that you don't see Islam and socialism go hand in hand, except when you see Islamic politicians run for office in Western cities.
And that seems to be the chosen methodology in terms of earning the trust and betting. You know, there's a long game. It doesn't matter.
Well, now you're scaring me, John. No, it's not to be scared. I mean, it's just we've seen it in London. We've seen it in European cities, you know, where you have elected officials go into these places and From Islamic backgrounds, and you know, there is a there's a playbook, and there's a lot to see about this playbook that looks a lot like that playbook. If he's a more committed Muslim or a more committed socialist, I don't know.
I mean, that's a which one is serving the other. I think that's a valid question. And you could be right. What motivated people to vote young people to vote for him is a is a is a good question as well. And I I haven't seen all the exit polling and all that sort of stuff.
But You know, part of what we need to realize is there has been a vibe shift. That vibe shift is real, but.
Something we've said here over and over and over: that the vibe shift is not revival. That's not the same thing. Basically, hitting the brakes on really bad ideas in certain parts of the country. And being able to leverage, you know, particularly that kind of political power. that has been employed in service of the Vibe Shift in America over the last two to three years.
You know, you can make some real things happen and some real things have happened. But that's not the same thing as reattaching a nation to truth. That's not the same thing as the renewal. Of a civilization. The renewal of a civilization only comes not just by rejecting a lie.
But it comes by embracing what is true. And so that, you know, that's stuff that politics can't force on the world. That's stuff that, you know, still leaves an awful lot of space for the church to be the church and families to be families. And Christians to be Christians in the moment that we're in. It does add some color and flavor.
I mean, the elections this week did add an awful lot of color and flavor. To this time. And I don't think it should be fearful. You know, the fear of the Lord. Casts out other fear.
We've seen God work in times and places, and we know how the end of the story. comes together.
So it was not about you know I'm not trying to be fearmongering here at all. But I am just trying to say, you know, there is an explanation that we forgot for the kind of activity. That we have seen. And it was a helpful explanation because it got to the bottom of things. Even beneath the the political realities, and maybe it's time to revisit that.
There there have been uh you know a number of stories. pointing us back to the reality of Islam. The threat of Islam, and really, what do we mean when we are talking about Islam? I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong about Mamdani's Islamic loyalties.
He may just be. It could be as more cultural than anything else. I don't know the answer to that, but we will see. I feel safer being scared of him as like a narcissist than an Islamist. But yeah, I guess we'll see.
But it is an amazing thing to never have a job, and your very first job. Ever. Is to be the mayor of New York City. That's a TV show there. That's true.
Well, remember, Zelensky was a TV show reality consumption before he became president. That's a job, though. Oh, my word. There has been zero jobs until you become the anyway. the mayor of New York.
Well, let's talk about Islam a little bit more seriously. You brought up Nigeria. This has been a huge week with some really major developments. You and I have talked at length about what's happening in Nigeria this year. With thanks to just a small handful of people who are willing to report on the slaughter, the all-out slaughter of Christians in Nigeria.
By Fulani Herdsmen, Boko Haram, Islamist groups in Nigeria. And for some reason that has yet to be explained, the Biden administration took Nigeria off of the United States list of countries of particular concern, which opens up certain levers of leverage for the U.S. to put pressure on the government of Nigeria to get this violence under control. President Trump ordered Nigeria to be put back on that list this week. He even made a small comment kind of threatening military action.
I don't know how likely or that is, but the fact that he's talking about it, specifically himself, there was also a really surreal exchange on Twitter with Nikki Minaj talking about Nigeria. I don't know if you saw this. I did see. Yeah. You got to give credit and say thanks.
She was very clear about this. And. Calling it what it was. And yeah. Yeah.
So talk to us about that because that feels like a really surefire example of this clash of civilizations. You know, I don't, Nigeria isn't, you know, in the same cultural state as the United States, but it's certainly the Christians that they seem to be after, as well as other, you know, minorities in the country. Yeah, I mean, the Biden administration's explanation at the time was that this was a. a land dispute and it was made worse by climate change.
So, you know, again, if you take religious belief and your worldview says religious belief is nothing more than a personal private matter and not really a motivating factor behind human behavior, which, by the way, you know, smells an awful lot like Marxist categories, because Marxist categories say that human behavior is. Is almost universally can be understood and explained by the fact that we're consumers of resources and access to resources. Essentially, we're eaters. And that that is the the the the the motivation that that we have.
So anyway, they removed it. It's great that President Trump uh put them back on the list. That that is a huge step. Uh there's a number of us that We're privileged to sign on to a letter to the President. A couple weeks ago, asking him to do this.
He followed through and did it. And then we. Uh sent another one asking him to Thanking him for doing it and also saying, please don't take your eye off this ball. You know, there's a lot of bad things that that that can happen. There is an attempt to, you know, outright exterminate.
But you know another read on this that It it's interesting to put these two Reads to gather So the clash of civilizations, which points specifically to Islam. As being on the wrong side of the fault lines on most of the conflicts that were coming to the world, according to Huntington. You also have Philip Jenkins' book. He's coming more from a missiological perspective and the growth of the church called The Next Christendom. He was the one who really kind of argued that the center of Christianity was moving south.
Out of the global west into the global south, primarily in Africa and Asia. And he points specifically to Nigeria as one of those. Nations, and part of that has to do with how big Nigeria is.
So, that clash and that growth of the church there, and the sheer number of Christians that are there, all that kind of comes into play here. And so, these two reads together. Are ways to understand this. I think it's also important, though, to note: it's not just about Nigeria now. We have incredible.
the footage coming out of Sudan, uh just all out, you know, genocide. And you know, these are You know, but basically, lawless regions that are captivated by this impulse that Solzhenitsyn talked about. When you start to think that that group of people right there is the problem with the world, and the only way to fix the world is to take those people out.
Now, we talked about that last week as regards to anti-Semitism. We are. Made a very, very important distinction, and which we're going to talk, I think, even more about here this week. when you start putting the the blame for the problems in the world, not on somebody's behavior, but on somebody. And not just somebody, but a group of people.
Not because of how they behave, but because of Ethnicity, skin color, or something like that, and you don't have the rule of law around it, then it all breaks out. And both Islam has that category, you know, that what's wrong with the world is this group of people. It's an awful big group of people, by the way, the more fundamentalists you are as a Muslim. And certainly anti-Semitic views, whether they're coming from Islam or coming from other perspectives, do too. That's a group of people that needs to be eliminated according to this view.
And if you don't have any protections, you don't have civilizational protections, you don't have country pressure, that's why this designation was really important, right?
So, to the nation of Nigeria, we're not buying this kind of explanation from the president's office and the co-option. We're actually saying, you know, no, this is going to be the designation, and hopefully, it'll hold that government to account to hold these people. Who are inflicting this horror to account as well? I heard a very eerie soundbite from one of the leaders in Nigeria. Saying in response to President Trump's press conference about this, saying, This news about the slaughter of Christians is just not, it's false.
It's just not happening. Which is also remarkable because I think, as you said, the Biden administration's argument was never, it's not happening. It was, you know, this is like a land dispute or something like that.
So there's certainly something deeper culturally going on in Nigeria as well. And it really is terrible. We haven't mentioned Marco Rubio. And Marco Rubio said some very, very Clear and important things. And that means a lot if you're the Secretary of State of the United States.
Yeah. John, let's take a quick break, and we'll be right back with more Breakpoint this week. Hi, John Stone Street here from the Colson Center. If you've ever taken a close look at a really old church building, most of the time you can find a cornerstone. A lot of times, the cornerstone will bear the names of the founders who built the church, not just to last during their time.
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So please join us, laying a strong foundation for the future by becoming a cornerstone monthly partner of the Colson Center. Visit us at colsoncenter.org slash monthly. That's colsoncenter.org slash monthly. We're back on breakpoint this week. John, I want to turn back to the home front and talk a little bit more about the Supreme Court.
So, we talked about oral arguments recently in a case. Out of Colorado against a Colorado law that effectively bans psychologists and therapists. From helping children who have, and patients with gender dysphoria, for example, or some other kind of sexual issues. Helping them in any way that does not align directly with the dogma of the state, which, as you can imagine, is pretty pro. You know, so-called transgenderism.
There was a really helpful piece at SCOTA's blog this week, kind of breaking down some of the oral arguments, but then also. Just towards the end of last week, the Alliance Defending Freedom filed another brief in a, this would be a circuit court case in the Eighth Circuit. On behalf of another pair of counselors, these out of Missouri, that are facing a similar law out of Kansas City that basically tells these therapists they're not allowed to help. Patients in this one very specific way, which they are arguing is a curtailing of speech. We are notoriously slow to predict anything coming out of the Supreme Court, but.
What did we learn from these oral arguments and maybe this latest case out of Missouri?
Well, the latest case out of Missouri is the new development here, and it has to do, it's interesting here because you're not talking about a state ordinance, you're talking about a city ordinance. And so, when you talk about kind of unraveling. You know, all the things that have been put in that have really tied the hands of counselors.
Now, think about that. I mean, basically, what these Ordinances, you know, Kansas City, you know, in this case, or the state of Colorado in the Child's case, are saying is. If somebody comes and says, I want to be helped. reject my identity crisis. I want to be helped to align My understanding of myself with my body, they actually can't help them.
I mean, this is a restriction on them being able to do. They're being able to do. But you know, it's interesting. One of the things that emerged that's going to be interesting to watch in the child's case. is something that Justice Sotomayor said during the oral arguments, which was a question like, well, hasn't the state already said it's not going to en enforce this law, so how do you have any standing?
Now the law's on the books and what so do my you are not arguing is that the you know That this law is going to be removed from the books. It's that the state has agreed not to enforce it. That's just bad lawmanship. And it's interesting. You remember Ryan Anderson and Alexandra DeSanctis's book After Roe v.
Wade. You know, about how abortion poisons everything or corrupts everything. The idea was. that abortion is something. Um w w when when it gets, you know.
forced on a uh people that has a corrupting influence, not just A devastating influence on the lives of pre-born children, although that would make it bad enough. But it starts to corrupt health care, it starts to corrupt. insurance it starts to corrupt family relationships. It starts to corrupt. the pastor's willingness to be holistic in talking about sins and so on and so on.
In other words, And their argument was also that Roe v. Wade did that, right? In other words, that's what a bad law does. A bad law actually makes things worse.
So it just was, it was a stunning thing to me to kind of revisit that this week. And, you know, somebody had. written about it in the context of this new challenge. And thanks. To ADF for showing up here at this level, too.
I think what they're after is these things exist everywhere, and until you get that final decision. You know, from the U.S. Supreme Court that makes it all moot. You have to show up and fight everywhere that you can.
So, you know, good for them. But I guess it just struck me again to read this comment from Soda Mayor and to think. That's just a terrible way to think about law. Like, oh, yeah, it's a bad law, but. You know what?
It's not going to be enforced.
Well, if it's not going to be enforced, take it off the books, you know? Because it can still have a corrupting influence. I hope too that these cases will, I think I said this when we talked about the child's case originally, because it does reveal some, I think. dysfunctional ways that we view therapy culturally. And some of those questions are at the heart of this case.
Like we need to define if the state is going to say, you can't say these certain things in therapy because we find them harmful, what is helpful therapy? And I think we've lost sight of what that, the answer to that question, literally. And I think it will be good if we can answer that again. Is helpful therapy somebody who just goes and finds a friend that they pay $200 an hour to, I don't know, affirm whatever they're saying? Or are we talking about real psychological problems that have like proven evidence-based methods for tackling them?
Are we talking about social help? Like what exactly is therapy? And therefore, what role does the law and I guess by extension the courts? Have in dictating what you can say in that kind of relationship. I think these are actually helpful questions.
And I'm glad it is before the court for that reason. Like you said, because if we don't ask those questions and then, these kinds of, you know, like the WPATH stuff, like all of these so-called standards of care that just get pulled out of thin air and created and then really infiltrate these institutions. It does change what we think therapy is and is supposed to be and to the detriment of kids. I mean, that's what we're watching.
So I do hope that they tackle that as well. Hi, breakpoint listeners. Time is running out to save up to 50% on registration for the 2026 Colson Center National Conference, happening May 29th to 31st, 2026. Be sure to sign up before November 29th to take advantage of early bird pricing. You can secure your seat now at colsonconference.org.
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We were going to talk about this last week. We ran out of time, but I was so looking forward to it. Bill Gates. Bill Gates. I have to confess that I have always found that I have been able to do that.
Felt wary of Bill Gates. He has always seemed a little creepy to me and That, do not take that scientifically. That's just my own intuition. Just have never loved the guy. Of course, obviously, all of his inventions have dramatically changed my life, I am sure.
But he has shocked the world yet again with a new statement that he came out with, I believe, last week. Ahead of another one of the world's climate summits, basically saying this climate existentialism, the idea that global warming and climate change is the most fundamental challenge to human flourishing of our time, we've got to get off of that. It's not, we because. And he basically said, what we've done is we've created this system where we're going full steam ahead on fighting climate change to the detriment of other more immediate human needs and risks. And my favorite headline after his statement came out was from Matt Taibbi.
who said something like, you know, Bill Gates says Climate change is not going to kill all of humanity. The world is furious, which was kind of accurate. People were very, very upset and surprised by this. What do you make of this?
Well, it it it's it's interesting. I mean, I think there is a kind of an inherent admission there of a couple things that undermine the entire narrative of climate change.
Now, At some level, this was about we're putting our resources in this basket rather than putting it in. These other areas that are, as you said, more immediate. But there was also an assumption about humans in a statement, and essentially that humans are resilient, and humans are creative, and humans are innovative. In other words, humans are not just a problem to be solved. But humans are actually problem solvers.
They're actually, the more humans, the better, not the less humans, the better. And, you know, the the climate change. catastrophic vision of the world that kind of has so taken hold over the last 15, 20 years has really been based on that still, you know, fundamental assumption that the problem that needs to be solved in the world are humans. It's amazing whether you start with human exceptionalism or whether you don't, where everything else goes from there. And this is really when you start to, you know, again.
Think about Oh. Alternative worldviews are those stories of reality that offer alternative chapters to creation, fall, redemption, restoration, right?
So you start with creation. If God created the world, then then the world is designed a a particular way. That means you doesn't mean you can't break it. God allowed humans to break his world. But there is a difference between a world that's created and a world that just kind of comes together by accident, right?
I mean, I remember Stephen Jay Gould talking about the evolutionary process and He says something along the lines of, you know, we're here because of An odd group of fishes had just a peculiar fin anatomy that could transform into legs. For terrestrial creatures, and the earth never really froze entirely during the ice age in this small, tedious. And tenuous species arising in Africa has somehow managed to survive. We might. look for a better answer than that, but none exists.
Basically, we should not be here. This is the evolutionary theory. Like one thing goes wrong, and humans should have never emerged from the evolutionary process. And if they did, they should have gone the way of the dinosaur anyway. In other words, If you do not believe the world's created and the world is being governed, you know, by these...
natural forces. One small step can blow the whole thing up. Right? And what you're trying to do then is build a a response mechanism on a global scale. To keep from making that mistake that could blow the whole thing up.
You see what I mean? The whole thing is just on this precipice of disaster all the time.
Now, I'm not saying that should make us, you know, thoughtless or make us, you know, fat and happy and all that sort of stuff. But there is a difference between a world that's been on the verge of disaster from the very beginning and a world that was the project of a s uh of a higher intelligence and force that is actually kind of governing history. That that's just, you know, an amazing thing.
So the the case for uh catastrophic climate change was always That there there was, you know. Serious climate change happening. that that climate change was human caused. and that that climate change that was human caused was going to be not only bad but really really bad. There's a really profound and, you know.
Expansive assumptions. That Bill Gates no longer believes. At least the last one is what I'm guessing. I think it's clear that the climate changes, that's all pretty obvious. But whether it's uh human caused and therefore preventable and whether it's going to be disastrous.
That's the thing about resiliency. And that humans themselves have been given a capacity to be able to respond to this thing, that implies a doctrine of creation as well.
So it really does get down to worldview. I'm not saying that Bill Gates has adopted a biblical worldview. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is, It seems to me he's questioning some of the assumptions that are necessary. For having this kind of catastrophic vision that Greta Thunberg has been telling us we need to have for so long.
And Al Gore. Yeah. I mean, there is a cynic, there's a very cynical, like Nellie Bowles at the Free Press was like, I feel like we are a couple of months away from hearing that Bill Gates is, you know, his new AI project just needs so much energy that he needed to set up his paste beforehand.
So it's really not that bad. Boy, that's a cynical take, but it could be very much true. I mean, she's playing chess, I guess. I don't mean to be condescending here, and I don't mean to speak too generally, but the view of the world that like Greta Thunberg espouses, the climate catastrophization or however you want to say it. I'm not really convinced that very many people actually believe that.
I mean, there are maybe some, you know, sort of conspiracy-minded, the doomsday prepper type of, you know, person that is going that direction. But for the most part, the people that I see who parrot those talking points and have over the last however many years never are actually living as if that were true. And I don't mean like they're, you know, not necessarily trying to conserve all their own energy and whatever, but like literally living their day-to-day lives as if the world is about to end. You just don't see them doing that. like you do in in other situations.
And I've just never quite bought that. To me, it's always felt like it's about something else.
Well, I mean, maybe with one exception, right? I mean, which is that when you look at the The plummeting numbers of young people getting married and also having children, right? The birth. the demographic winter. That's one reason that particularly if you're under 30.
You're pointing to. That is the comment. You may not think it's legitimate, but that is a behavioral. And they claim the reason is I don't believe in the future enough to bring it to want to bring a kid into the world. I have a somewhat spicy take on that.
And I actually wrote a piece in World Opinions last year about that because. There is not a single person on the face of the earth that has used that as a reason and told me that that's why they're not having children that I believe. I just don't think that's true for a single millisecond because. Let me tell you.
So, when October 7th happened in Israel, there was an interview. I've probably talked about this before, but with a mom. who survived something like fourteen hours in her her Holmes safe room with her two very young daughters. And her story was incredible and horrific, and just you can't imagine it. And they somehow survived.
The IDF made it to their house and they were rescued. And she was talking to this reporter afterwards. He said, What are you gonna? How do you rebuild your life after this? What are you gonna do now?
And she said, I called my husband and said, Let's have another baby. And I was like, that was the most real, like, motherhood kind of like. What is the greatest source of joy in the world for this woman is her children. And what do you do when it feels like the world is burning around you? You chase that.
And that to that felt genuine. Decadent, you know, 30-something dual-income, no-kids couple who are afraid of having to ask for a babysitter when they want to go to a restaurant and that they might not get to backpack through Thailand when they have a child, telling you that they're not doing it because they want to save the environment. That's them trying to make themselves sound good because they're scared. And having children is scary, but we are set up right now, technologically, at least in the West, to be able to exert a level of control over our reproduction that is unprecedented. And that, combined with the normal and natural fear of pregnancy and having children, Has led to way too many people just choosing not to do it or to force it.
It had me until the normal and natural. I don't think it's normal and natural. Like, I think everything that you said is probably true, although it is quite cynical. You're being quite cynical today. Hold on, hold on.
But what I mean by normal, and let me just clarify. The prospect of getting pregnant, being pregnant physically as a woman is very, very scary. I don't think all women feel that way, but I did, even outside of any context in which I felt like I could or should exert control over whether or not that happened to me. It was still just always scary. And I think that exists for most people.
That's why I think it's so cruel when you enter into the conversation, hey, there's this really scary thing. I promise it's worth it. But here's 10 options that you could take that would maybe prevent it or prolong it. And maybe you don't have to do it. And maybe you could pay somebody else to do it for you.
It takes a very strong person to not grasp those. Options because it's scary. That's what I mean. I wasn't suggesting that there's not a normal and natural fear of that. I'm sure there there is, although I have not personally experienced it, but I have seen it up close and personally.
Let's put it that way.
Well, stress stressful for husbands, too. I mean, it's just a lot. Yeah, I'm not going to claim that, but I appreciate your extending that opportunity to me. What I'm saying is that the fear. Uh stop being normal and natural.
and was dramatically hyper-increased. By a couple things. One is that the fear of interference with one's personal autonomy. That's been one of the fundamental lies of the sexual revolution to women, that their fertility is a problem. And I think that that's added to the fear.
So that's what I'm saying. It's more than just the normal natural fear. There's that. And I you know, maybe I'm just not as cynical as you. I think that the the that It wasn't a part of my education.
I don't think it was a part of your education. But I actually think this climate Uh alarmism, the catastrophic view.
Now maybe it's also a convenient excuse and maybe on its own is not enough to kind of create the results. But hold on. Every single voice for a generation now. Since somewhere around 2012, Every single voice. in education and media.
has put this existential crisis and this fear. And when you actually measure the anxiety of that generation of young adults and compare it with even ours. Right? Even yours, you know, you're so much younger than I am. There is a dramatic difference in anxiety.
So I'm not saying it's not. You sit in a classroom and you hear a lecture about that, let's say, alarmism. And then you leave the classroom and you take another. class about Investment and the stock market under, and all of the rest of your classes are under the premise that the world is probably going to continue for quite a while. And here's how you build a life and manage life in America in 2020.
Like, people just aren't living. You don't see on college campuses, for example, where this kind of theory is espoused or has been, a bunch of people living like there's no tomorrow in really any other world. The theory has never been that there's no tomorrow. The theory is that it's 30 years from now. But if they're not, if people aren't going to have to do it for that reason, I'm just telling you what they said.
Listen, I believe them. I believe them. I'm a believing person. I'm a trusting person. I'm not cynical and skeptical.
I don't know how you've managed to come out of this looking soft. That's just, it's just my listen. The other thing I think that is interesting about this memo from Gates is that There has been somewhat of a capture of this idea in some circles of the church. And usually it's put under the auspices of something called creation care, which I am not prepared to condemn. Like I don't, I believe it's wonderful to talk about how we are to cultivate the earth and we should be respectful of what God made and how beautiful it is and all of that.
But I think part of the ideological capture of this idea in the church has been due to the moralistic language that people like Bill Gates have used about it. Basically, if you care about your neighbor, you have to carry about, you have to care about climate change and you have to agitate for change and all that. What's really interesting about this memo is that he's infusing that same language in the other direction because now saying, for example, one of his bullet points in here is. If you really do care about the poor and the vulnerable, then you need to be pro-energy in all of its forms because energy is how economies improve. And how um You know, the poor are lifted out of poverty largely across the world.
It's going to be interesting to watch that play out. I mean, the interesting part on Bill Gates' side is that he doesn't have a framework to tell us why mitigating human suffering is good in the first place and why human suffering is bad and why we ought to want humans to continue and why life is good. I mean, those are all assumptions that he's just taking for granted. I agree with him on those assumptions, but I feel like I have a pretty strong framework for why I believe them. It'll be interesting to see if he wrestles with those moving forward.
But I am going to be interested to see how this trickles down into some of the kind of climate alarmist, adjacent. strains within the church. Yeah. Well, I think the interesting thing to me about this story is that it's from Bill Gates. It's kind of like when.
Uh Bono from U2. you know, said capitalism was the solution, not the problem. It was such a remarkable realization of what a human being and a human person is. But I also think, you know, there is this another stranglehold idea that is now being loosened. And what I mean by a stranglehold idea is that there's been a handful of ideas that have had a Pretty strong stranglehold on the world.
The, you know, the sexual identity one. Uh the critical theory one, um the uh And the climate change one. I mean, these they oftentimes go hand in hand.
Sometimes, strangely, you know, they come as a package deal.
Sometimes it doesn't make sense how they do or why they do, but they do. And we've seen a re at least a relaxing of the grip on the throat of civilization of some of these in the last three, four, five years. Is this a first Sine That this particular idea has, you know, that its grip is being. Loosened on the Western world.
So, you know, it's worth paying attention to, and it's worth noting. Because you know, not just because it's Bill Gates, but because of kind of what he represents. I wish he had taken more of a responsibility for setting up so many people's fear in the first place about this, but Alas that is not the world we are in.
Well John, I want to talk about some questions that we got this week. Earlier this week, you shared a commentary about this dust-up over Tucker Carlson's interview with Nick Fuentes, who's just an open anti-Semite.
Somebody adds a Really didn't know a whole lot about until this week, and still know as little as I have been able to keep myself from learning about him. Tucker Carlson interviewed him in what a lot of people have characterized rightly, I think, as a softball interview. And then there was kind of a dust-up over Kevin Roberts at the Heritage Foundation kind of defending Tucker, suggesting that. You know, we shouldn't impose cancel culture on him. Anyway, it's kind of an online controversy, but it's worth talking about as well.
And some of the questions that we got were relating more to: you know, can we and how can we critique Israel as Christians?
Some people were accusing us of suggesting that you can't critique anything about the state of Israel without being called an anti-Semite. Others were suggesting that we only care about Israel because we are dispensationalists. I wanted to give you a chance to respond to some of those critiques. Yeah, we got an an incredible amount of response and also a lot of hateful response, a lot of angry response, which is okay. I mean, we're kind of in it for that, so that's fine.
I think the most important thing is to say what is true and to hopefully help people see what is true. But that was really the two buckets where the kind of the most extreme questions. I thought there were some also very thoughtful questions. Like there were people, for example, who said, You know, I'm not comfortable with how Israel carried out this war in Gaza. And but am I allowed to critique that, or anybody who brings that up is referred to as an anti-Semite?
That you know, and and and asking it in a in a sincere way. Israel has to answer for how it waged that war. And we've talked about just war theory and how that plays in. But that's not Many of the responses basically, because we condemned. the message of Nick Fuentez.
The message of the anti-Semitic uprising within the conservative political uh um uh side of uh of of the United States. And because Tucker Carlson had the kind of interview that he did. Because we said it was wrong and we said anti-Semitism is wrong. And because everything that Nick Fuentes has said in the past is not just anti-Semitic, but also. I mean, you know, anti-woman and everything else.
I mean, he's a despicable, horrible. Person certainly to be considered a thought leader. And Tucker Carlson's judgment to me is not just not challenging him. And it's not about platforming him because apparently Fuentes has a pretty large following as it is. It's that To to think that this guy should be considered an expert on anything is just flat out bizarre to me.
And so It was so weird for us basically to be accused of Saying well, you can't say anything about Israel. We didn't say that. What we said is Nick Fuentez is an awful anti-Semite and he's representative of a growing group on the political right that needs to be addressed just like we address the growing group in the political left. Which I would even say is bigger, that was anti-Semitic in the wake of the October 7th attacks. This had nothing to do with defending or not defending everything or anything at all with the state of Israel.
This had nothing to do with that at all. As we said, anti-Semitism is wrong because it answers the question of what with a who. The question of what is what's wrong with the world? And anti-Semitism answers it. It's not a what, it's a who.
It's this entire group of people, it's the Jewish. people. The other interesting thing was people who were saying dispensationalism has affected the church, so that's the only reason you did this commentary.
Now, I will say what I said the other day on the World podcast as well.
Some of my best friends are dispensationalists. I'm not one of them. I'm not a dispensationalist. That's not how I understand the state of Israel. That's not how I understand.
Do you want to just define that real quick? I mean, without we probably don't have time to go through the whole thing. It's a view of the end times, which says that God has a continuing, ongoing plan that looks a particular way for the state of Israel, and that the current state of Israel tends this tends to lead that the current state of Israel Is that group of people with this ongoing plan? And now, there's various levels of degrees to which you set aside the state of Israel and the Jewish people as being unique. Clearly, biblically, God chose Israel as His chosen people.
Through Israel, was going to bless all the nations of the earth.
So the point of Israel. was never just Israel. It was to actually bring blessing, the Savior, to the rest of the world. And by the way, the Jewish people are also responsible for responding to that Messiah.
So they don't get off the hook because God chose them as his chosen people if they do reject Jesus.
Now people have used that as an excuse. Uh to to to to for anti-Semitism. which is completely unbiblical and it's completely unjustified. In other words, you don't have to be a dispensationalist to think that Fuentes is an awful anti-Semite and that anti-Semitism is absolutely evil and unjust. and has been a source of evil throughout history.
We were talking about this this week in our editorial meeting, and one of the things that Dr. Glenn Sunshine talked about this, said about this, was. As a historian, there's not really a rational explanation. for the survival of the Jewish people, given the number of times that people have attempted to wipe them off the face of the planet. I don't embrace the way dispensationalism historically.
has talked about the identity of the Jewish people and what it means to be that. But I absolutely Understand and accept that historically it was through the Jewish nation. The descendants of Abram That Jesus was going to come and be a blessing to all the nations of the earth, and eventually it's going to be. the source of the restoration and the renewal of all things. And you know what?
Even if we were talking about any other group of people. Anti-Semitism would still be wrong if those weren't even the categories that we had to bring in. Why? Because every single person is made in the image and likeness of God. Every single person has dignity and value.
Every single person matters. And nations and groups of people matter according to the biblical language of this.
So I just wanted to respond quickly to that, which basically there was no theological argument. based on eschatology. That we presented in that commentary condemning anti-Semitism on the right. And it had no connection whatsoever. to whether you can or cannot you know critique the state of Israel And I really it honestly really concerned me because I you know I want to think that This growing anti-Semitism is about six people in a basement somewhere, but it seems like it's a lot more than that.
And it seems like there's a lot of people attracted to that. And it's wrong. And it's been a source of incredible evil, and we shouldn't accept or tolerate or justify that. to any group of people. Right?
Because of what human Christians believe about being made in the image and likeness of God. Fuentes has encouraged rape. He has encouraged. Killing And mocked the death and the slaughter of Jews and other people. He's he he is a white supremacist.
This is a unique. justified, unacceptable. You can actually even have a political philosophy of putting America first and not go down the awful paths and say the awful things that he has said. This is just, it was just completely un unacceptable.
So there's also a lot to say about Tucker Carlson, but I really wanted to hit those two things in particular. This is not connected to being a dispensationalist. I'm not one. This is not connected to not critiquing the state of Israel for how they behave in certain ways. That has nothing to do with this either.
Yeah, I mean, I think the survival of the Jewish people is as unlikely as the hatred of the Jewish people is irrational, but just seems to continue from the beginning of time until now. And I think it can't be anything other than spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a spiritual reality to that.
And I think that case can absolutely be made, again, without embracing some form of. A particular eschatology or not. It's just, it's obvious.
Well, consider me an asker-inner of Breakpoint This Week questions, because my follow-up question to you is. Is Nick Fuentes, is he evil or is he stupid? What and why? What are we dealing with when it comes to Kenya? I don't know him well enough.
Kim and Andrew Tate and. I haven't even paid attention to this until now. And then you, you know, hear the clips, and, you know, and I, I. You read the things that he has has said. What he said about Charlie Kirk, what he said about Christians, what he said about certain kinds of I mean i i there's just that the fact that this is considered a leader.
I think says more about the state of young men. Listen, it makes sense. Is he from? I think that's what he's doing. No, he is.
I think. I don't know if it's a big one. I know he has a following. I understand he has a following. That is a separate conversation in my mind.
Like, what is drawing people to that? Yeah. I know we're running out of time. Let me say two things on your question. And people can write in and get mad at Maria for jumping in line and just inserting her question.
We had so many good questions. That's my right. And then you did.
Okay.
So number one. We have talked here about the return of young men. to church, the quiet revival in Britain, in other words. In other words, there there there has been this Dearth of meaning and purpose that has been especially acute among young men who are now looking for something to believe in. and a cause to embrace.
one Demands repentance. The one demands that they bow their knee to Jesus. The one demands. That they can have that kind of life that they're looking for, and it's primarily expressed in service to God and service to others. The other is more of an adrenaline rush.
It's more of being able to be rebellious. It's more of being able to find meaning and purpose. Into being henry and all that sort of stuff. And you have examples of it and people making a case for it. These are very different causes, but it makes sense that we would see.
Both of them emerge. simultaneously. And I'm sure there's other expressions too, but if I were going to put it in those two big categories. You know, you're g you're gonna see this backlash to the 90s Beavis and Butthead nihilism. Young men looking for something to believe in.
And finding it and moving forward. One is going to demand that they bow the knee. The other is going to demand. that they follow their heart. And it's going to go in very, very different directions.
So it's an incredible, I think, opportunity for the church. I think that at some level is behind this. Other than that, I'm just not familiar with Nick Fuentez. I don't want to call him an idiot or anything like that. What he says is evil.
And to not be able to say that it is evil. Is a is a real problem. And I think most people are willing to say it. Then the question is, you know, having to do with, you know, how should it be platformed or not platformed? And that's another conversation.
I know. When you play the clips, that's why I asked, because evil is always inherently irrational. And to me, his ravings sound not dissimilar to like a person. on the subway who's like raving. And I you know, that's why I'm like, is it worth wrestling?
With what he's saying. And it might be just be cut by nature of the fact that he has a following. But at that point, I'd rather hear from like a sociologist about why they think he has the following than hear from him himself. But I'm not in charge of making those decisions.
So, but.
Well, thank you for clarifying that on your commentary and the way we view anti-Semitism in Israel. I think that's really helpful.
Well, before we close the program, John, let's talk about recommendations. I will recommend an episode of Barry Weiss's podcast once again. That I just listened to an interview with her and a professor named Shiloh Brooks, who actually is starting a new podcast. But he his new podcast is called Old School. But he did an interview with Barry about Teaching classic literature as a way of elevating the critical thinking, and he said, elevating the souls of America's college students.
He started teaching this course at Princeton, and it kind of instantly became one of the most popular courses on campus. And it basically was: he chose five really impactful, historically relevant books: classic literature and nonfiction, and read it with this class. He said he started doing it because he realized that these kids were not, like the American education system is not challenging kids to really read books anymore. And if we do, it's to read them, to diagram the sentences, and not much more. And so he said he wanted to teach kids to read with the heart again.
And you know, one of the things he wants kids to read, for example, is Nietzsche, because he said. You know, I find every one of his arguments to be abhorrent, but I. Wanted to challenge them, and you should be able to challenge your opponents. And so you've got to read this, and you should read Lincoln, and you should read Theodore Roosevelt. And it was really moving just hearing him talk about the way he views education and reading classic literature, which As many of our listeners will know, it is something I am passionate about.
I even got my husband to start reading Mark Twain, and I'm loving hearing about that story. But I highly recommend that conversation. And like Professor Brooks, I highly recommend reading novels and classical it in particular. I'm gonna um get a head start 'cause I'm usually too late. Um and uh when I think about recommending uh summit ministries For next summer, I know it seems way early, but you should, particularly in light of the conversation of young men.
that we're having and the opportunity that lies ahead of us. And it fills up. It's a wonderful program. There's also the Impact 360 programs and the Worldview Academy programs. These are for high school students to help them think deeply about life, to think deeply about their faith, to think deeply about other religions and worldviews.
and learn how to be conversant on the things that really matter. In a context of faith.
So check out Summit Ministries or. Impact 360 summer programs or the World View Academy programs. Two thumbs up from me on those. Also, great place to meet some other boys and girls. Right, John?
Uh I mean, you know, that's actually something that I think we need to talk about as well. The church needs to get serious about matchmaking. Dude, I'm so on board with that. I completely agree. Completely agree.
All right, well, that is going to do it for the program this week. Thank you so much for listening to Breakpoint This Week. From the Colson Center for Christian Worldview, I'm Maria Baer, alongside John Stone Street. It's been a pleasure to have you along this week, and we'll see you all back here next week.
