After Hours with Amy Lawrence Hour 2

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Void where prohibited. You're listening to After Hours with Amy Lawrence. Knowing that there are people out there who listen night in and night out that keeps us going. The hours can be tough sometimes. We certainly understand the grind that people go through when they work second or third shifts. We're glad that you are a faithful listener.

Thank you so much. It's the After Hours digital experience. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, boom baby! This is After Hours with Amy Lawrence. One hour down and three to go until we hit the weekend. And even if you're not quite there, it's on the horizon. But yeah, we count down through this show to say to you happy football Friday. Most of the time, just the football part is taken out.

But it doesn't mean we can't still enjoy our Fridays. It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. You are blowing up my Twitter right now with your dog photos, which makes me really happy. Thank you so much. Some of you have seen your dogs, which is near and dear to my heart. Like Randy, who sends a picture of Yogi at 15 years old.

Thank you so much for that. I did share a recent photo of Penny. It's going to be potentially, I don't know, 20 years old. I did share a recent photo of Penny. It's going to be potentially a tough decision this weekend.

I cannot talk about it or will not be able to get through the show. But your puppy photos will help me smile and will encourage me. So thank you for sending them again on Twitter. ALOL Radio, I got to get a post up on Facebook. I promise to do that because I know you all love your puppies as well. And if you have a cat and not a dog, that's cool.

As long as you have a pet or a fur baby that you consider family, we are definitely on the same wavelength. 855-212-4227, we'll get back to your phone calls. I know there's a lot of build up to what's to come in NFL Free Agency and then the draft. This is when the money is made in the front office, right? So for that reason, we are pleased to welcome our friend, longtime NFL general manager and front office executive, Randy Mueller, former NFL executive of the year, who now turns that insight into a podcast, the football GM pod for the athletic.

Randy, as always, can't wait to hear what you have to say. Taking a peek behind those closed doors, what's happening in front offices around the league right now? Well, it's crazy because those teams that were in the playoffs and made deep runs, I can tell you how they feel. Their GMs feel like they're way behind. And so they've been busy managing their own team.

Now they've got to play catch up with the rest of the league. You've got to prepare for free agency now in January. And so you've got to have an idea of what's going to be available, which also leads you to having to know about the draft as well. So you've had meetings with your scouts on both sides, the pro and college sides of the personnel booth, and you have a pretty good picture by now, but that's come over the last four or five weeks. So the window right now of teams being able to tag players that are going to be free agents with the franchise or transition tag next week is Indianapolis and the combine. And then the week after that, there's, and I laugh when I say this, the legal tampering period, which happened for three days.

I got news for you. That's about two months long, that period. The league just says three days so they don't have to investigate all the tampering. And then the new league year starts in the middle of March. So there is no downtime for GMs and team builders per se. How would you say this particular stretch in the winter time, early spring, compares to what a general manager is doing the rest of the year in terms of its hectic nature? I would say it's the most hectic time. It's the busiest time. It's the time, in my opinion, when GMs that can multitask make their hay.

Because you may have, Amy, 20, 30 different deals popping around in your head at this point. Don't forget, you've got 15 of your own free agents that you're dealing with trying to figure out who to keep and who not, and probably negotiating with half of those people. And when you get to Indy, you'll have 25 meetings set up with agents and you'll have an idea then of whose market is going to be where in the free agent market. So it is busy now. It's exciting. That's the part probably I miss the most is this window up until the draft. It's negotiating, it's free agency, then it's the draft, and one duck tails right into the other one. So it's a crazy time for decision makers. Coaches in particular have been busy the last six months.

Now they've passed the baton to the GM and the scouting staffs. This is the time of the year when we see some players become salary cap casualties, but how challenging are those types of moves? I think it's the hardest task a GM has, and I've been asked this over the years, what is the hardest part of it?

It is when you have to decide that guys who have given you their all for sometimes maybe a decade, that you can no longer use that, and you no longer use them. It's the hardest thing to decide if you have to part company with these guys who have really been your partners in business for the last, depending on who it is, 10 years. So it's a hard job. It really is, and it's a lot more than just finances. It really is because you're a team builder, not a collector of talent. So a lot of these guys who do make the money are there also because of their intangibles and leadership and everything else. And so these are decisions that don't come likely to GMs and to coaches, and you've got to all be on the same page. And it's hard to shut the door on these guys who have given you their whole livelihood as a professional.

We're always excited to spend a few minutes with Randy Mueller. He's a former NFL executive of the year as a general manager. And did you just tell me you were in an NFL gig from the time you were 22 years old? Yeah, full time all the way through for, I guess, about 36 years. So, yeah, it's the only thing I ever knew. That's how I grew up, right? Because I actually started as a ball boy when I was 16 in the summertime. So it's the only job I really ever had. And I always tell my buddies back home, they always say, what's it like?

I said, will it be working for a living for 40 years? It was awesome. Now he's with the athletic and has the football GM pod as well as weekly columns during the season.

It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence here on CBS Sports Radio. How much emphasis did you place on veterans and how much emphasis did you place on younger guys that you might get a little cheaper? Yeah, it's definitely a puzzle that every team kind of fits it together differently. And again, I mentioned the fact that free agency comes and then the draft. But in order to participate really functionally in free agency, you have to know what your options are going to be in the draft as well.

So they work together. I think the financial part of it, everybody sees when free agency starts the big money that gets spent that first three or four days. I think the smart teams end up waiting and finding the right value and the right fit. It's really not about when you're a team builder getting a bunch of great players. It's about getting the right players for you and your scheme and your coaches. And that sometimes I think flies under the radar for fans and for listeners is they think you have cap space. So spending equates to being successful. Spending does not necessarily equate to being successful. You've got to make good decisions.

And sometimes that's easier said than done. When you look at a team like the Kansas City Chiefs that have had extended success now or even going back to the Patriots, how much does it help to attract free agents and big names and maybe even get them to not take top dollar when they're looking to win and you've had some extended success? I think it's definitely a factor.

It's a thing. The underlying fact of it is, and you mentioned the Patriots, it's really about the quarterback. Players want to play with Pat Mahomes. Players want to play with Tom Brady. Because they know success is going to bring you whatever you want, whether it's more financial security, more accolades, you know, more attention, whatever it is that floats your boat.

Winning brings you that. And Pat Mahomes does that. Tom Brady does that. You know, these other quarterbacks that are at the top of their game, people want to get on board with that. And to be honest with you, the guys who have made their money, they're going to sign up to play for that just to win.

And they'll not necessarily be driven by the almighty dollar. Right now, we've got some quarterbacks who are likely to hit free agency. Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo, who's got a two-game suspension to start next season. Ryan Tannehill, a Mason Rudolph, oh my goodness, a Joe Flacco, maybe a Justin Fields. Where would you start to find your QB?

Well, you're onto a bunch of them. Don't forget Baker Mayfield as well, who had a pretty good year in Tampa. He's going to be a free agent. So I think what happens is teams kind of segregate the UFAs in that maybe there's two or three guys that you view as starters. And there's two or three guys after that that might be starters or guys that can compete for the starting job.

But it's really all about options. You mentioned Kirk Cousins. That's an interesting spot because Minnesota, here's their choice. Do we pay Kirk Cousins $40 million a year, a 36-year-old coming off of Achilles? Or do we go a different route and maybe as a bridge pay a Mason Rudolph or pay a Sam Darnold or somebody like that for $20 million?

And that gives us $20, $25 million extra to build this team up in some other areas. So it's all about options. It's all about choices.

But to get to the point of pulling the trigger, you've got to have researched it all. You've got to met with them all. You've got to talk to all the agents with all these guys. That's why I'm saying the volume of deals that are on the table are crazy. Are there any of these guys that you wouldn't touch?

Oh, I don't know. I think it's kind of like Baskin-Robbins, right? That's why there's 31 flavors. We all get to pick the one we like when we walk in the door. What Amy might like, Randy might not like. I think there's always some guys who you really are hesitant about. I think initially, you know, age is a factor.

There's no doubt. But it kind of depends on where your team is, too. If you're an older team or if you're a successful team or one that's around the playoffs every year, you might not be deterred by older, whether it's a running back or a Derrick Henry type or a quarterback or somebody at a different position.

Age really isn't that much of a factor if you've got a one or two year window to get it done. It kind of depends where you are as a franchise in the team build. Do you believe there's still a market for a Russell Wilson, considering the last couple years and how tumultuous they've been? Well, that's a sticky one.

I would say there has been more failure than success there. But here's what's attractive about Russell. You're going to get him for minimum salary. He got 37 million coming from the Broncos if they cut him. And that's going to be offset by anything that you pay as a team. So let's just say the Falcons want him.

They're going to pay minimum salary because they're not going to pay money that just comes off Denver's deal. Russell's going to make the same, whether he plays or his home on the couch. So he'll be targeted and he'll be sought after somewhat just because of the finances. Randy Mueller with us here after hours on CBS Sports Radio. We're able to pick his GM brain. And it's not just quarterbacks. Of course, you've got guys like Josh Allen, not the quarterback. Chris Jones, who is a Super Bowl champion again and worked out his issues with the Chiefs in a way that I think impressed a lot of people because he didn't alienate the team.

He was there to support the team when they started this season. If you're the Chiefs, how much of a priority is he? Well, I think the Chiefs had some tough calls to make without a doubt. They've got to find a way to not only save a couple of their better defensive players with Chris Jones and the Darius Snead. They've got offensive woes. And I know they just won the Super Bowl, but I don't think they'll be happy with the group they have going into next year.

So I think they're going to tweak that as well. I just came out with a huge package for the athletic last week or not necessarily all me, but the staff and I, and we put together our top 150 free agents. And I think the strength of this year's free agent pool is definitely on defense.

You mentioned Chris Jones. There's several defensive linemen. Josh Allen, like you mentioned, I think it is a great year in free agency to help your pass rush. There's probably six or eight guys. Now, some of these guys are going to get tagged over the next week or 10 days. But once those tags hit, I still think there'll be players that are good in that front seven. And I think a lot of teams will focus on that because that is a hard position to find and one that the draft seldom puts volume of those guys on the market.

This is a chance to get a guy for nothing. I do think the defense will rule in free agency. I just think them and the quarterbacks are probably the way, if you have money, you're going to be looking. So then thinking about the draft, of course, at the top, there is the Chicago Bears with a big decision to make. We know Ryan Polis generally plays his cards close to the vest. But if you're sitting in that position, which direction are you going at QB? Well, I think Ryan has to play his cards close to his vest.

I understand that. He's also got to put out certain intentional messages, which helps their positioning. I don't think it's a hard call and I have nothing but respect for Justin Fields. I think he's progressed the last three years. He's just not to the point where I could turn my back on Caleb Williams from USC having the first pick. I think that's what they'll end up doing. I think they'll manage to get something for Justin Fields.

It's not going to be a lot. I don't think anybody's going to give them a first round pick for Justin Fields, but maybe it's a second or third and they move on in a different direction. But when you can reset at the quarterback position your salary cap for what would have to be Justin Fields in the $20 million range a year from now, and supplant that with a rookie first year deal, that's a no-brainer as far as if you don't take a step back on the field.

I don't think Caleb Williams has taken a step back to anybody that's in the free agent market for sure. We have seen a bunch of new head coaches and there's always chatter about a general manager and a coach coming in at different times and who predated who and who's in charge of what. You've been in these situations before. How much is that a challenge when the two guys weren't hired at the same time or didn't come in together? It's definitely a little more difficult. It's a little more sticky, but it can surely work.

Here's the only thing I use as a gauge. I worked under coaches. I worked even with coaches. I worked as the coach's boss. The relationship never changed in any of those situations.

We always made decisions together. My theory was if we can't agree, we're going to pick a different lane that we agree on. As far as a team build goes, I think they can work out those things. The calendar and how that reflects their own contract, sometimes that can be an issue. If a GM maybe has a year or two left and a coach has four years left or vice versa, the agendas on how you make decisions sometimes can be a little difficult and problematic. You've got to work through those. It's challenging, but if there's communication and if there's an effort to team build together as a staff, I don't think it's going to hold you back by any means, but it's definitely a little difficult to do that way. Is it possible that front offices around the league are intimidated by a Bill Belichick? Oh, 100%. I think we saw that in Atlanta, and I don't have that from any great source, but this will maybe make people cringe, but I think maybe this happens in any industry. I don't know.

I've only known football. There's people within the building that guard their own desks, right? They don't want anything to change for them. They don't want to feel uncomfortable. They don't necessarily want to be pushed.

Some people say they really want to win, but what that means to others, I don't know. Everybody, I think, needs to be a little bit uncomfortable in order to get the best out of them. Even a Mike Frable. People might fear that a little bit with him, definitely with Belichick. I don't know as much with Pete Carroll, but they're going to hold others accountable, which I think is awesome, but there are some that really don't want to change.

They want to keep things the same because it's best for them, and therefore it's hard for a guy outside the building to crack that code. I always say this. The GM jobs, the head coach jobs, sometimes, and most of the time, I feel like they don't go to the best candidate. They go to the candidate who fits within the box that the people doing the hiring have made, and I think that's the case with Bill this time around. But he's one of the best coaches that the league has ever seen. I agree. I think some people have the owner's ear, and for Bill to get a job, it's going to take an owner to just say, hey, I don't care what any of you guys say.

They're going to say just what you did, Amy. Here's the best coach we've ever had. We're going to hire him, and if other heads have to roll or if other people have to be uncomfortable, so be it.

But this is the route we're going to go. Randy Mueller is with us from Seattle. He's got the Football GM podcast.

Really great stuff. It's after hours on CBS Sports Radio. I asked my listeners this question, and it wasn't specific to football. What is the toughest job in sports? And my answer was coach at the pro level because there's no job security. But looking around the landscape of the NFL, what is the toughest job?

Well, the toughest job, for my money, is the quarterback. That's why they make $50 million a year. There's only, think about it, maybe six or eight of these guys in the whole world, the whole world, that can do what they do at the highest level. And therefore, that's why they make the money they do. They are also the one guy on the field that can't protect himself.

They're out there ducking, diving, duking, running from people trying to take his head off all the time. I just think it's the hardest job in sports. It's one thing to be talented, but your skill level then has to rise above that talent. And the Pat Mahomes, the Josh Allens, the Lamar Jackson, those guys can do it at a level where nobody else can. Therefore, I don't want to say anybody deserves $50 million, but they sure do in this world, that's for sure.

Well, hey, they make the teams a lot of money, so if someone's going to make that money, the quarterbacks are billed as the faces of the franchise. When I say this, a third of America was tuned in to the Super Bowl, literally a third of our population, Randy. What's your reaction? I think it's awesome. It's truly become a world sport. I mean, even the numbers across the pond are crazy with fandom and what they can spend and the passion that they have. I think it just tells us that our sport is growing. It continually grows. You see it with these international games. I would think, Amy, in the next year or two, we're going to find out that every team, every year will have an international game. Wow.

And that's just the way it's going to be because they want to spread the word. Think about this, and Roger Goodell makes a lot of money, right? And everybody in the world says, how can the commissioner make that much money? If he does, and the owners are okay with it, how do you think the owners are doing? Probably pretty good, right?

So it is a healthy business. How would you evaluate him as a commissioner now? It's funny because he came into the league about the same time I did, so we kind of grew in it together and have known each other for probably almost 40 years.

So I've kind of seen that position, and Roger evolved as well. And I think people underestimate how hard the job is. The amount of politics that he has to play is crazy. I think the research that the people do around him doesn't get enough credit because there are a hundred people that are involved to have his year to make these decisions. I just think it's an enormous task. It's similar to being the president of the United States.

It's crazy how many people are involved. So I think overall he's done a really good job in regard to growing the game and growing revenue. I think that's the bottom line. Sometimes I wonder if the decisions that get made are necessarily for the good of the game on the field. But for revenues, which he works for the owners, that's what they care about. I don't think you could argue that he's done a great job for improving revenue.

No, what did I see? $22 billion most recently for the annual revenue, and his stated goal is $25 billion. So a few more of these streamers that jump on board for playoff games and that'll be nothing. You can find Randy on Twitter at RandyMueller underscore. He's a former NFL executive of the year, spent decades in the games, a GM in front offices.

Now he's with the athletic and has the football GM podcast and weekly columns and also gets to maybe breathe a little bit now this time of the year. It's so good to catch up with you always. Thank you so much for a couple of minutes. Thanks, Amy.

I enjoy it every time. Randy Mueller offering such great insight. And yeah, the time that he spent in the league, he saw it change so much from 22 years old through being a general manager. Actually had a brief sojourn into broadcasting, went back then to being a general manager. He's been climbing that same or I shouldn't say ladder because he's not in anymore, but he was climbing that same ladder when Roger Goodell first came on the scene with the NFL. So really a ton of wisdom and experience. And we talk there about Chicago, what they do at the top of the draft and how much time do you spend on free agency versus the draft and what's the best bang for your buck and the quarterbacks that are available and love what he had to say about Bill Belichick, considering he is a former GM.

It'll take an owner deciding whoever might be offended, whoever might be upset, whoever might be anxious or hate the move. I'm the guy who's writing the checks and I want to win, period. Good stuff with Randy. On Twitter, ALawRadio, you're blowing up my timeline with your dog photos and they are really giving me just sweet joy to see them. Thank you. And I am absolutely going to get that post up on Facebook. You're looking for Penny.

Just look for Penny and reply with your own puppy photos. Happy almost Friday. It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. You are listening to the After Hours podcast. Hope you enjoyed the conversation with Randy Mueller, former NFL front office executive of the year.

So he's been lauded for the decisions and the processes behind those decisions. All of our interviews are podcasted separately as part of our daily post, so you can check it out within moments of the show being done. Ryan's on it. Producer J always on it, too. And you don't even need me to list the variety of ways that you can grab the podcast.

It's funny. Have you ever Googled a podcast? And what pops up on your search page is all the various places that you can grab the podcast.

That's all you have to do. Then you find out it's on Spotify. It's on Apple. It's on Omni or Odyssey or blah, blah, blah. This place, that place.

It's super easy to find. We do have a YouTube channel that we don't put our podcast up on YouTube. That's for videos and ancillary goofiness. But we will get back to our YouTube channel more once J is done with vacation.

Now that football is in the rearview mirror, there's a recent video there from Vegas, which you might like. But for the podcast, it's in condensed form. Not nearly as many commercial breaks.

The commercial breaks are not as long. And then our guests always get their own link. So Google it. Search for it. Find it at your leisure. That's what I do, actually.

I just Google it every time, even though I suppose I could bookmark it, but that seems too easy. 855-212-4227. That's 855-212-4CBS. Jeff is listening in Pennsylvania. Jeff, welcome to After Hours.

Jeff, are you also in Tijuana now? Listen. Did we just get a snore?

I think we did. Uh huh. You fell asleep holding the phone. Yeah. So somewhere in our computer system, and I don't know where it is, but somewhere in our archives, we have a montage of the various people who fell asleep while they were on hold with us. This guy's only been a hold, like, what, 20 minutes? Yeah, 30 minutes.

And we had a conversation with Randy instead. Hmm. It's tough. Tough in Pennsylvania. I hope he's not at the desk right now at the office, or even worse, supposed to be driving somewhere and instead is pulled over on the side of the road or in a rest area.

But he's out cold. Yep. Definitely. Let's hope the phone didn't fall and smack him in the face. That'd be bad.

That would be bad. All right. Well, he'll enjoy this maybe tomorrow when he checks out the podcast. Thank you, Jeff, for your time and your insight.

I say this a lot, and it really is 100% sincere. If what you need is sleep, as someone who has major sleep challenges, and this show helps you fall asleep, that's great. As long as the radio is on or your phone is running or your link is open, who even knows, however it is that you get the show, if it's playing, we get credit for it with our rings. So if you're sleeping, but it's still playing in the background, that is okay with me. I mean, I'd prefer that you were listening with both ears and you were engaged, ear balls as I call them.

I'd prefer that, but if my brilliant sports analysis somehow goes over your head, that's okay too. If it pushed you to sleep, even better, then we really get great TSL. Do you know what TSL is? No. Time spent listening. Classic radio term.

Time spent listening. So if we get large numbers from TSL, from Jeff in Pennsylvania, it is okay. That's fine. I did put the photo of Penny up on Facebook.

I feel very accomplished. I had to download it onto the company laptop. Is that considered a violation of company policy? Nah, it's a dog picture. It is.

That's true. I wonder how many people here actually know that it's my dog. That's okay.

Yeah. Can I tell you a secret? Well, secret.

Can I tell you a funny story? I hadn't thought about this in years, but this kind of conjures up the image. I came in for my audition in fall of 2012. And what the company was doing essentially was throwing three to four people into a studio and just having them talk. And they would kind of see how they would interact. That wasn't necessarily going to be the co-host they partnered you with or even that they would put you in a studio with other people. But they were trying to audition a bunch of people all at once to see how it would go.

So in fall of 2012, I come in, I sit down at a computer with a microphone for my audition. On the computer is a scantily clad female. Don't know who she was.

No idea. I just know that she was wearing a very little bit of clothing. It was a string bikini of sorts, so it covered very little. And it was on the computer as a screensaver.

That was a company computer as the screensaver. And I remember sitting down and saying, I'm not doing a show while this is staring me in the face. Granted, that was 12 years ago, so I'm not nearly as experienced as I am now.

I've climbed a little higher up the totem pole, if you will. But I had just come out of a situation in my previous network where there was all kinds of sexism and discrimination. And I couldn't believe that here I was auditioning and this is what was staring me in the face on a company computer. Nobody questioned it, thought about it.

Well, I believe it was the spot where a local host generally sat. And he put whatever he wanted as the screensaver or the background. So I said something. The boss, who was in charge of hiring, comes running around, sees it, and is mortified.

So an older gentleman mortified. I told him to get that off the computer. So anyway, right at the very beginning they had to apologize. Well, you didn't have to, but he did apologize to me. And that was my introduction to the studio space here at CBS Sports Radio.

And we share studios with our local affiliate WFAN in New York because that's where our headquarters are located. But yeah, that was the first thing I saw when I sat down at a company computer was a background of an almost naked woman. And so I suppose my dog Penny is a great upgrade from that. And if someone, not that I've ever used it as a background, but if someone gets offended by a dog, well, you know. That doesn't happen much.

Those types of things don't happen much anymore because now companies can get sued for that type of thing. What would you call it? Trauma? Assault. Eye assault.

Right. Well, assault isn't actually the act of physical contact. It's the threat of it, right? I don't know what you would call that.

It would be mental and emotional abuse. I'm not one of those people that needs, at least at this point in my life, has needed an attorney to fight any battles for me. However, I do remember that very clearly and felt like, all right, if it ever comes up again, at least I have an ace in the hole type of a thing, you know. On Twitter, A Law Radio, you will not find any photos of scantily clad women. Not me. Also, if you're looking for what I consider to be a wholesome photo, pennies there, baby. So check it out. Our Facebook page, too. Just asking you to share your dog photos with me because they make me smile.

They give me some joy. It is likely to be a tough weekend for this dog mama. So thank you for understanding. Your fever is high and the pressure to log in at work is, too. But when you finally decide to take care of you, there's Instacart. Just because that one perfect coworker of yours is attending all meetings, camera on while she's sneezing, coughing and aching doesn't mean you have to do the same. Take it from us. Trying to stay on top of things will only get you further behind. Instead, get everything from tissues and teas to cough suppressants and comforting soups delivered through Instacart in as fast as 30 minutes.

If anyone needs anything, they can just redirect their questions to that one perfect coworker of yours. OK, picture this. It's Friday afternoon when a thought hits you. I can spend another weekend doing the same old whatever, or I can hop into my all new Hyundai Santa Fe and hit the road with available H track all wheel drive and three row seating. My whole family can head deep into the wild, conquer the weekend in the all new Hyundai Santa Fe. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

Hyundai, there's joy in every journey. 2024 Santa Fe available early 2024. 24 is the year of Baja Blast in stores now. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 18 plus subject to official rules at Baja Blast dot com and 615 24 void were prohibited.

You are listening to the After Hours podcast. I just saw the headline that LSU was fined $100,000 for fans storming the court after the women's basketball team got a huge win earlier this week. Anyone want to venture to guess how much the students care whether or not the school got fined $100,000? They'll get another donor. The next time there's a big win and the students are there and they've been pouring their voices, their emotion, their heart, their soul, their blood, their sweat, their tears into propelling their team to a huge win. What are the chances they think about the $100,000 fine and say to themselves, oh, you know what? We really shouldn't storm the court. That's like two students tuition for a year.

They're fine. Two students tuition. That makes me sad considering the fact that I haven't even started becoming a parent yet. My goodness, by the time I get to be a mom of a child going to college, we're going to need a really smart kid, a really smart kid.

I need to start saving now before I even have met my child. It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. For those of you who are following Kaitlyn Clark and her hot pursuit of the NCAA scoring record, it was not.

It's funny too. This is how Kaitlyn Clark becomes a victim of her own success. But it was a ho-hum day for Kaitlyn as actually she only scored 24 points. But Iowa, more importantly, because it is a team sport still as much as they're watching Kaitlyn, Iowa got blown out by Indiana. And so this is a battle inside the Big Ten of top 15 clubs, a largest margin of defeat for Iowa since last season's national championship game. And she was held below her average, hasn't scored only 24 points, only 20.

Isn't that crazy? Talk about, again, being a victim of your own success. We could go on and on and name athletes who are victims of their own success, meaning they've set the bar so high that when their numbers are still better than the vast majority of their peers in their sport, it's considered either a failure or a disappointment or far below what they're capable of. I think Tiger Woods is a great example of this. If he didn't go out and win every single tournament, forget the fact that he made, I don't know, 479 cuts in a row or that he had an actual calendar grand slam. The number of times he's won each of the majors, he's if not the greatest of all time. And I know the injuries derailed his march to most majors ever and also most wins ever. But still, had we ever seen a golfer more dominant than Tiger Woods? Certainly never seen one who had his approach to the game mentally.

And yet, if he did not win, if he did not finish in the top 2-3, somehow it was a big disappointment. Steph Curry, I think, is in that situation now, too. I mean, you could look at different quarterbacks and say they're judged more harshly because they're victims of their own success.

Now, that's a good problem to have. I don't know if anybody's complaining about it. The whole pressure is a privilege thing. But here's Kaitlyn Clark. She only scores 24. And somehow, it's a huge deal for Indiana to beat Iowa by this much because it's a top 5 opponent. But just the fact that they held her, I'm using my air quotations, to 24 is somehow a big deal. I saw that she had 20 in the first half, too. So, was it 4 points in the second half? That's the worst part about it.

Being able to clamp down on her? Right. And so, Iowa has now dropped 2 games inside the Big 10 in the span of, what, just a couple of weeks?

Actually, maybe even just a week? I know they want to gear up and be ready for the postseason, but remember they lost on the road at Nebraska. Then they came back and shellacked Michigan and then out on the road again against Indiana. Indiana being a ranked opponent. She did add 24 more, but they weren't really in this one much in the second half. I can promise you, as much as it's cool for Kaitlyn to talk about the scoring and as much as it's cool to see her go off, she would trade most, if not all, of the individual accolades for them to have another shot at the National Championship. No doubt about that.

Our phone number is 855-212-4227. You could ask guys at the pro level, or gals at the pro level too, because when you win an MVP, but you don't have the team hardware or the ring to show for it, it's almost hollow. Not that the individual accolades aren't nice, but the majority of these guys, they would take the championship ring and the championship trophy over an MVP or most of these others. As for Nikola Jokic, kind of putting himself in position to challenge for another MVP, right, so Joel Embiid is the reigning MVP, won't be eligible after he misses all this time, but Jokic is up to his old tricks. Back over to Jokic. Jokic guarded by Bagley, jabs at him, head fake, spin move, gets down the lane, dumps it off the ground, layup, good! 16th triple-double of the year for Nikola Jokic as Denver leads it 82-59. The defending champions get 21, 19 rebounds and 15 assists from Jokic. That's in his 31 minutes of play, and this is kind of a cool stat, or if you will, a cool nugget.

Ryan just shook his head at me, of course. He's now had a triple-double versus every other team in the league. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a nice, especially when I finish career, it's going to be like a legacy or something, so it's like a milestone, I'm going to say something like that, it's a milestone.

It is a milestone on Altitude TV. Michael Malone, head coach, he can be salty, especially when you don't give his center, his MVP the respect. He's going to go a little deeper. And what's unique about him is that he can impose his will in so many different areas. Some guys were great scorers, but Nikola, he can score, he can rebound, he can play-make. He can just impact the game across the board. That is definitely true. It's funny that people will harp on the fact that he's not real athletic in his movement.

Right, so he's not Justin Fields, I'm just pulling an athlete, he's not Shea Gilges Alexander, right? I mean, he's not one of the most athletic guys, and yet, whatever his herky-jerky, lurky style is, he is extremely skilled and has great court vision. As for the Nuggets, they're within, what is it, three and a half of the top seed in the Western Conference, and as defending champions, keep waiting for them to play like it and track down that one seed. When our starting unit plays, I think our record is like 24 and 6, a 75% winning percentage. So that, to me, is most important, is going into the playoffs, having our starting five healthy and ready for the load that's going to be placed upon them. As you get to the playoffs, the rotation shrinks, and you play, guys, heavier minutes. So I think having home court in the first round is very, very important. I think having a healthy team going into the postseason is very important. And if we happen to be the one seed, that's just a cherry on top. But we're not going to put all our cards in just to attain that and risk being healthy for a very deep playoff run. So it's load management, but without violating the NBA rules on load management.

And I undersold them. Actually, the Clippers and the Nuggets are two and a half games back of the Timberwolves. There's also the Oklahoma City Thunder that are wedged in there. And the Thunder were back in action. Actually, most of the league was back on the hard court Thursday evening. The Thunder, they were able to get by the Clippers, right? So that's a battle among the top four in the Western Conference. Celtics, meanwhile, have built a healthy lead of seven up. Seven up in the Eastern Conference, which is nearly unheard of lately.

But they've won nine of their last ten and seven in a row, so they've got a lot more room to play with. This is After Hours with Amy Lawrence, CBS Sports Radio. There's joy in every journey. We'll be right back. When something happens to your car, you might say, No!

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