2-9-24 After Hours with Amy Lawrence Podcast : Hour 2

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Additional terms apply. It's a place where friendships are forged, football is revered, and food is enjoyed. Solo Stove, the perfect flame for the big game. After Hours takes on Las Vegas for the first time. In Las Vegas for Super Bowl week, we're excited to be doing this together. My first trip to Vegas, I'm already overwhelmed just walking through the airport.

It was about a par-5 golf hole from my gate to where the concourses all came together in a central hub and I passed at least three sets of gambling machines. Checkpoint. The people actually stop.

They don't care about getting to their baggage or a car or where they're going. They stop, they sit down, they just start dropping money. From the home of Super Bowl 58, it's After Hours with Amy Lawrence, sponsored by Southern Recipe.

From our home in Las Vegas, 98.5 HD to The Bet, our local affiliate. You guys, we've got some funny stories to tell you. I swear we're going to get to them, including the text message that nearly, well, it nearly required an annulment.

That's all I'm saying. I was a little bit worried about what my husband did. He arrived in Vegas a few hours ago and I thought, uh oh, that might be the end. But not just that, stories from the cigar party where it was freezing and wind chills were in the 20s and we still are really glad to be partnering with Southern Recipe Small Batch Pork Rinds and yes, I did snag some bags on my way out. Well, not bag as like the cool kids say, I didn't get a bag.

I got a bag of hot honey Southern Recipe Small Batch Pork Rinds. The NFL honors were handed out on Thursday evening. We're going through them and I think it's pretty incredible that the AFC North didn't quite sweep but came pretty darn close. It's after hours on CBS Sports Radio. You can find me on Twitter, ALawRadio, as well as on our Facebook page. And Jay is sharing photos and videos, of course, on both Twitter and Facebook.

So it's great to be able to share our experiences with you and we've got some more coming up. I had a chance to sit down with former Steelers and Bears running back Merrill Hodge for the first time since we both worked together going back, oh gosh, more than a decade ago at my previous network. And he's always animated. He always seeks to inspire. His career has seen multiple iterations from football player to broadcaster. He also got let go and laid off. And he's gone through so many different health challenges that he seeks to share those experiences so that others know they're not alone.

And that's one of the things I love about Merrill. I think you'll enjoy our conversation. I asked him, how much has Radio Row and the Super Bowl changed since you were in the league and maybe even since you were in broadcasting? Okay, from, you know, I helped launch ESPN too. That's when I first started working at ESPN. And then in 21 years of being there, just this experience of Radio Row, how enormous it has become, the platforms that exist now is just, it's somewhat, I don't think you could have comprehended that when I started 25 years ago. You know, I couldn't, but to be a part of that growth and that initiation process and grow with it, I think it's always exciting and interesting in this world. You played in the 80s.

Yeah. Are you ever blown away by the exponential growth of this league to a place where it is year round and people can't get enough? Well, I call myself a bridge player because I came in, like you said, I got drafted in 87, but I left in 94. I left as a, I became a free agent and that's why I went to Chicago to play. So I was a part of free agency. In 87, we went on strike. We went on strike. It ended up being Gene Upson made this announcement.

It was incorrect, but he made the announcement. We were unified on free agency and no, we were not. We were fragmented on free agency because free agency was only going to benefit a few people. What we really wanted to go on strike for what the players voted for, but Gene Upshaw yet failed to acknowledge that because him and his posse chose a different route was that we were healthcare benefit and retirement that helped everybody.

And he chose him to collect that. And I've had this conversation with Gene Upshaw and Gene Upshaw did do some good things. I'm not saying that, but our overall 87 strike was an absolute train wreck. You know, we didn't rectify that to some 20, 25 years later. Now that being said, when I leave, I'm a free agent.

Okay. So I know what free agency is like. I know how the game was starting to change and how it is today. You know, that changed a lot of things with just a few players, which is true today. It only helps a few players. People only hear about those few players. A lot of people are free agents.

Okay. Only a few players get to change and there's a certain level of money. Gene Upshaw and his group came in and showed this pie chart one day about all of the increased salaries they had made for all the starting players. And I was sitting in the back. I said, Gene, do you have a graph, a graphic for all of the special teams, players, and backups that were going right down in the toilet? They were going south. Okay.

They're going down. And I was like, you know, that's just, don't walk in this room and present one thing. Present it all. If you're going to be a leader of men and have integrity, present it all. And it is true.

So this day, you know, I don't bend if it's a few. We've done a better job with healthcare and retirement for players, but it could have been done so much better. It should have been so much better had we done it right and had better leadership at the beginning. Do you think not enough of the growth of the NFL and the revenue is either shared or it gets down to, let's call the rank and file players, the majority of the league? Right. Well, listen, every player is responsible for having built this league to where it is today.

Okay. And for every one star player, there are five role players. So there are more role players than there are star players and more role players have done more for this league as a whole than everybody. Although everybody's a part of that. Now I do think, you know, and I think in the last collective of a bargaining agreement, they made an incremental jump for all of the players in their healthcare and retirement.

That was advanced. Is it where it really clearly needs to be? There's a lot of things, which the shows we don't have enough time in the show.

This takes two hours to talk about all of this. It's still can improve based on the revenues that do exist and the things that could be done for the overall benefit of players who built this league and the value that in giving back. So Merrill Hodges with us here on radio row.

It's great to be in person with you. A former NFL running back spent eight years in the league broadcaster too, and now working in a different capacity, which we'll talk about. It's after hours here on CBS sports radio you're talking about the kind of negotiations or the balance, I guess, between the league and the players. One of the big debates the last year has been about running backs and being devalued. Derrick Henry's a free agent now, but very often we see the league cycle through. Mark Ingram was here yesterday and he blasted the league for the way that it treats running backs.

What's your perspective? Who blasted him? Mark Ingram.

Mark Ingram. Well, okay, well, basically says devalued. They will have to explain that to me. So you're devalued at nine million dollars a year. You're devalued at nine million. I just want to make a clarity of what you're devalued at.

I know a lot of people like to be devalued at nine million dollars. Mark Ingram's of the world clearly don't understand the business, even though he's been in the business. If he had his own business and he had to invest and do the proper investment, what's best for the team and how you need to go about it from a structure of money, you're not going to invest twenty million dollars into a running back once they get beyond, say, eight to ten years, once you start getting that because you're probably going to get stuck with it. And that's coming from a guy who played running back for twenty two years.

Okay. And I played in this league for nearly a decade as a starter. So I understand the business side of it in the position itself. Yes, it is the most physically challenging position in the game, period.

There is no other position. There's more chance, especially if you touch the ball. Okay. And I there was time the first five years of my career, I led the team in rushing and receiving.

So I touched it over well over two hundred times. I know what it feels like at the end of the year. I also know what it's like to be looking at being in the league for ten years and how much is left in you. Okay. So I can see that why nobody's going to invest some extraordinary amount of money like they are going to do a quarterback or even maybe a perimeter player, if you will, based on the environment that we play in. So I completely get that.

And so I don't know what everybody is. The league isn't going to all of a sudden go teams are going to forget the league. Teams aren't going to go. You know what? You're right. We need to start paying you guys more.

And I need to eat it. They're not going to do that. It's a business. Okay. But I still get I'm just so I just I don't know that how you get devalued at five million and seven million and eight million devalued. Okay. Is it what everybody else can change positions to change positions? You have that right.

You have the opportunity to do that. I just find it hard to go how you can be so devalued at even five million dollars. I just don't know how that's being devalued.

It's actually been like this forever. And with the salary cap, go back to when we went on strike. We want it for agency. Okay.

Obviously, he needs to go back and check out the collective bargaining agreement and what players fought for. Okay. You asked for this. You asked for this. The league didn't ask that you asked for this.

NFL players asked for this. So you get what's coming your way unless they just don't want to take ownership and realize that is just the fundamental facts of this business and how it is how it's going to be. And that is not going to change. They can cry all they want. They can blast the league. They can blast teams.

It ain't going to change. Nobody's going to bury 20 million dollars in a player that's in his 10th year as a runner unless there's something uniquely gifted about that player. And when I think about that, the only guy I can even think about would be Walter Payton.

Okay. That would have that kind of value. And even that you have to consider, okay, his better time is over and it's over.

I can't put where I got him. I'm going to have to eat 10 million dollars because I'm probably not going to get production out of him and or he might retire or can't really play. And I just it's never going to change, you know, but a point of diminishing returns.

And at some point they that the stats are clear that running backs reach that exactly. And I'm just going to go back to we because I have to say we because I was a part even though I didn't vote for it, even though I didn't want to. I didn't want that from a collective bargaining agreement. What I thought was more important for us. You know, I remember Mike Webster made the I'm a rookie. It's 87. It's the last we were to have before going to strike and he stood up.

Mike Webster had been in the league for about 15 years at that time, roughly 13, somewhere in that area. And he said, hey, guys, listen, I'm not going to strike. But if you do, do it for health care, retirement and benefits. Benefits us all.

Don't do it for free agency because it only benefits a few of us. When he walked out of my that's the smartest thing I've heard since I got here. But I'm a rookie.

I've been here a few months. And it is true today. So, you know, all of these things and the money and listen, owners were making more money and you still could have created that leverage of 49%. You know, you just have to play it to your players. Players wouldn't have had say leverage to go to another team that only is a few a select few and they're going to be your more than likely your elite players. And you got to pay them anyway, because if you don't pay them, they take it. So it's going to go one way or the other. You might as well pay your players, you know, so you're going to get that money. The best players are going to get that money.

You didn't need that. But we we set that structure up back in then back then that now teams are going to have to look this. OK, how can I be my wisest with my money?

Where is the money going to work the best for me? And I still go back to when I see what Derek Henry make last year. Was it nine million? So McCaffrey made 16. OK, 60. Henry was around 12.

I think Chubb was around 12. Right. OK, so, you know, I could go back to those how devalued that is. That is just terribly devalued. I know.

I bet you I know about ninety nine point nine nine percent of the United States of America that would be devalued like that and would be loved to be devalued. Right. I mean, just for one year.

Yeah. Forget about your one or nine year run. You know, just like, you know, just kind of just the ignorance is the ignorance is almost appalling. But a player is that that ignorant that they're going to say stuff like that. And they think for one second, blasting somebody and saying something that that the league or whoever is going to change it ain't changing a thing. It'll never change it.

You ask for it. Go back and look at the history in 1987. We should have done some things differently then. OK. And we wouldn't be in this spot, but we're in that spot because a lot of things that were done there and teams now have to budget wise and make sure financially they're not going to be exposed for making us a poor decision.

I'll give Cleveland Browns. They got they did one of the most financially structurally dumbest things you can do in the history of football by guaranteeing umpteen million dollars to a quarterback who was who had not played for two years. That means not just played for two years, had lost thousands and thousands of reps to become a better and better player and evolve as a player. He lost two years of seasoning. He is lost now almost four years of seasoning.

You will probably never see him play at the level he played when he was in Houston, Texas. And they keep pushing money back and pushing money back. At some point, they're going to have to pay the piper. It's coming their way. You know, they'd like to do that, thinking that was going to bring you to be your Super Bowl winner. And it's going to backfire on them.

They're going to pay the price for that, you know, but they made that choice. That position gives you a little better chance to have some longevity with it based on how it's how it's played. But you would never do that to a running back. And players just don't understand that is it's mind boggling.

Usually it's the position itself. Meryl Hodge with us on Radio Row. Before we talk about your new project, I ask you about the Steelers, because that's the team that you're most identified with. What should they do a quarterback? Well, I think, you know, I've been asked this several times and having, you know, really, I mean, been a part of that organization, studied that organization, you know, you never know what's going to happen with Mason Rudolph. He's a free agent. So he may he may be gone. If he does come back.

I just think that there's a great environment there for great competition. What I think happened to Kenny Pickett. I don't like to see anybody get hurt, but there is no way they were going to bench Kenny Pickett. And Kenny Pickett was playing way too fast. His head was spinning. I'd never seen I'd studied him in college. I'd seen him play in in the National Football League.

I'd never seen him playing that fast. His fundamentals were eroding. He was eroding as he was not evolving. So to remove him, I'm telling you, he probably killed Kenny Pickett.

But I will guarantee you that at some point he will come back and say that was one of the best things ever happened to him, because now he could remove himself. He could slow down. He could learn, watch, absorb stuff. And then Mason Rudolph, to his credit, the one thing that stood out to me is how well he played, how poised he was in the pocket. His pocket presence was was ignored because he didn't really play like that in the times that he had played. He played a little faster. And having a guy hadn't played for two years and yet developing that and having that composure there and functioning from processing accuracy and throws and making big time throws in big time situations, you know, it wasn't like first and 10 throws.

I mean, it was like third and fives, you know, for first downs and touchdowns. And I just think that there's enough there that warrants a competition, because I think then you're going to get the best quarterback. You're going to get the very best player, and especially if you do it fairly. You know, you give everybody the fair title is as fair as you can from making apples to apples. And and I think they'll get they'll get a better they'll get the best quarterback and that will help the team.

So it'll be interesting if they if Mason does come back and somebody doesn't take him, but it'll all start with that. Right, right. Love the organization.

The Rooney family, Mike Tomlin, get so incensed, but I think he's amazing. So I don't want to keep you too much longer. Your story, your health journey has been well documented. You've spoken about surviving cancer and some of the other challenges. And you look great, by the way.

Thank you. I know you've got a new product that you want to share with us a new partnership. You know, it's called BreatherFit. So breatherfit.com is where you can find out all the information. But I hope I spark a few things that might interest people to invest in their health.

So I'll give you example. I have open heart surgery, chemotherapy that I went through. I created a deficit, a bubble in my a order. So I had to be repaired when I had to leave the hospital. I remember I had to come in because this one is presented to me.

I'm like, Wait a minute. I did this. I did this to leave the hospital. That your respiratory system is can be isolated and strengthened. I didn't know that. I thought you had to do cardio, some type of cardio to strengthen it. I thought, you know, if you're training the heart, then you're training everything, your respiratory system, which is true.

But I didn't realize they're separate. So you can train the rest sources. So that's what I had to do to leave the hospital.

I had to train my respiratory system to strengthen it, get all of the my fluid out of my lungs, strengthen it so I could leave the hospital. So when they brought this to me, I was like, Well, you know what? It makes a lot of sense. And I'm like, I'm always into like, what little things can you do better to improve your overall health? So I'm going to try it. So I do try it.

And it's five minutes. It takes two times a day for five minutes. You don't have to get into a gym.

You don't have to drive anywhere. You could do it at your office table. You can do it in the kitchen. You can do it on the couch. You know, you got to have a certain posture you do it with, but it doesn't take that long. This also struck me. After age 30, everybody starts to decline their respiratory and oxygen starts to decline as far as how much oxygen you're producing.

One of the leading causes of like overall decay of body and brain health, too much sugar, inactivity, poor blood flow and poor oxygen. So one of the great ways to stimulate your respiratory system would be with this tool. So I do use it and I'm still doing cardio. So I could feel a little bit of the challenge of how it isolated my system. Well, I did this on accident and then I tell them about it.

And they're like, oh my gosh, that I never thought of that. I go on a trip. I got to go to Pell Beach, Santa Barbara, Arizona. I was gone for like 10, 12 days. I lifted, I stretched, I did all that, but I never did cardio. So I come home.

So I have 14 days off. So when I go back to my first day of cardio, I was going to do my intense cardio, which is my hardest day. And I'm like, I could watch my heart because when I do cardio, I'll watch my heart.

That tells me everything. And I could tell my heart had been off for two weeks. What I couldn't tell is I was breathing so easy. I could feel the difference. Like my breathing hadn't been off. I know I was like, oh my gosh.

As accidentally, I've even verified it a little further. And so let's say you're doing nothing for your body. It would be a great way to start just because it'll help oxygen in your body. The better oxygen, the better you breathe, the easier your breathing.

Here's going to be the results. You're going to be happier. You're going to be healthier. And it might help you live longer. Okay.

That's the worst case scenario. That's how you have to be. So just little things like this, and just to learn the difference between your respiratory system can be isolated and strengthened and trained and that value of the oxygen that comes into your body will prove not just your overall health, but your brain health is something I did not know. And I was like, holy cow.

And then I made it a part of my lifestyle now and what I do. BreatherFit.com. I like it.

Check it out. It's not hard either. And maybe that will spark people that are not doing anything to reinvest in their health.

To get started again. Well, it's great to connect with you. Thank you so much for your insight. I hope you're having fun. Always. Is this still like a fraternity when you run into old players and teammates? Yeah.

And people that I've worked with or the paths across. I mean, that actually probably has been the most enjoyable thing about the whole day. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for a couple of minutes. My pleasure.

Good seeing you. It was really good to see Merrill Hodge. And he does.

He looks great. After everything that his physical body has been through, not just the rigors of a decade at pro football, but also he's been very vocal about the different concussions that he has suffered and some of the memory loss that he's dealing with. He beat cancer. Then he had to have open heart surgery because of the impacts of the chemotherapy. And then after that, then he had to try to rebuild that respiratory health and all of the points that he made about how improved respiratory health and more oxygen to your brain are critical for the rest of your systems and your physical body.

Awesome. And the majority of what he does now, he still works with the Steelers on some social media and some other projects. He's most closely associated with the Steelers, which is why I asked him about the quarterback and what he would do there. But mostly he's an inspirational speaker now. He's gotten out of broadcasting for the most part, and he is hired to inspire.

And I certainly was after talking to him. I love his passion. Right later on this hour, we're going to get into technology and football like AI and what the NFL plans to do with it, but also this streaming platform, as well as all the other streaming services that we need as football fans.

How do fans navigate what is an ever changing broadcast world where in order to follow sports, if you're passionate about sports and you want to follow your teams, it's no longer on terrestrial TV or cable TV. On Twitter, A Law Radio, we did put up a photo of Meryl Hodge if you want to see it. Also, our Facebook page After Hours with Amy Lawrence.

We've got some photos from tonight's cigar party at the M Resort Spa Casino where the wind chills were below freezing. And we've also got some great stories. Jamar Hamlin, his card trick. Yeah, we're going to go out with a bang. Our final show here from Las Vegas at 98.5 HD to the Bet.

It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. When the whole family comes together to watch the game, nobody wants to miss a second of the action to run to the grocery store. With Instacart, you can get all your weekly groceries in as fast as an hour.

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At 98.5 HD to the bet, our home in Vegas. Our friend Dan, who is the engineer extraordinaire at our local affiliate, has given us a key and let us have the run of the place. Jay's been stealing drinks. Okay, he's been borrowing drinks. You think he doesn't notice or no one notices that the cokes are disappearing? I'll replace them. Oh yes, I'm sure that you will. You should send a thank you note and a case of coke when we get back to the New York City area. I need these.

It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. Well as Jay's talking about needing caffeine, here's my story about needing caffeine a couple hours ago. The Starbucks, there's three of them in the Luxor Hotel, three of them. I didn't realize they all closed at 10 p.m. local time. I was sure one of them stayed open until midnight.

So I walked down there at 10 o'clock and they're closed and I am freaking out. I called Jay. Jay, I can't do a show without coffee. Jay, I haven't had coffee since early this morning. I can't do a show without coffee. And he said, well we're not going to make the show.

Well I'm just going to have to stop. So he gets in his lift. Actually his lift driver got stuck in traffic on the freeway so I have plenty of time to get coffee. Anyway, my cab driver, his name is Corey.

I'm pleading with him. Corey, I need coffee somewhere, anywhere. I don't care if there's a Starbucks, if there's a McDonald's, if there's a Dunkin. He's like, no, no Starbucks. They all close at 10.

A town that doesn't sleep, a city that doesn't sleep like Las Vegas. Why do they all close at 10? Because it's Fufu Coffee. They don't want to deal with drunk people.

I don't know. Anyway, so he says, don't worry, there's a McDonald's right up the street. So he does a Huey. He, at the light, he peels into the McDonald's and he goes into the drive-through. I roll down the window.

We sit there, sit there, sit there. Five minutes go by, nothing. After I say, hello, oh please just give me a second, nothing. Five minutes.

I say to him, Corey, I'm going to miss my radio show. Oh, that's what you do? Yes, which means I need to be there in just a few minutes.

Okay, okay. I said, what happens if I jump out and run inside? I said, what are you going to do in the drive-through line? He's like, well, let's see how good my driving skills are.

So he backs up in what is a big circular U, backs up into the McDonald's parking lot, the bulk of it. I jump out. I go inside. I order my coffee. He parks in another area. I run out after a couple of minutes. I've got my coffee and he gets me to work on time and takes a back road.

So we're not stuck in freeway traffic. But at one point, because I didn't recognize the route we were going. Hey Corey, are we sure we're going the right way? Freaks me out. He starts howling with laughter.

Well, maybe there's another today away. And I was like, don't you dare. Don't say that to me. And he's, he's like tackling like a little kid.

It was so funny. So he makes me check his phone to make sure it's the right one. But this is what he tells me as we're sitting there in the McDonald's drive-through. I'm like, Corey, I'm so sorry.

Please forgive me. I just, I have to work all night. I need the coffee. He says, Oh, don't you worry.

I do this all the time. And I said, Oh no drunk people. Oh yeah. He's like, you wouldn't believe the chicks that come out of a bar late at night or the clubs late at night. They've got to have their chicken nuggets.

That's what he said. They've all got to have their chicken nuggets. And I said, Oh my goodness, the things you must hear. He says, Oh yeah. I said, so you bring them to McDonald's every time.

He said, yep. And I howl listening to their conversations. And I said, don't tell me any someone's thrown up in your cab.

Oh, he's like, not just throw up, but all kinds of things happen in the back of my cab. And I'm thinking, let me out. Let me out of here. All right.

Okay. Corey. TMI Corey.

That's TMI. Anyway, he was great. He was awesome. So that was one adventure. We get back here to our Odyssey affiliate in Vegas and we're able to get the show on the road, which is fun. Another adventure I have to tell you about when we have another opportunity. My husband showed up in Vegas a few hours ago.

We went to the cigar party with producer Jay, which was awesome. And then Jay and I come to work. Bob sends me a text. So I did a thing. Okay. I'm thinking, Oh my gosh.

Right. I'm thinking, Holy crap. He got a tattoo. He freaks me out. I write back.

He doesn't respond. Wait until you hear what he did. We'll get to that coming up. It's after hours with Amy Lawrence on Twitter, a law radio. Thank you so much for all of the support this week. The encouragement. I'm glad you love the shows, the pictures, the videos we've got more to come.

And some really cool AI Intel in a partnership with the NFL is straight ahead. Just got this tweet from Jane, a law radio outstanding guest referring to Merrill Hodge. I learned so much. Well, good.

We did too. We hope you learn a lot from our next guest as well. It's after hours with Amy Lawrence from Las Vegas. This portion of the show brought to you by Southern recipes, small batch pork rinds between the pork rind giveaway and delicious recipes. You'll want to ask your friends to pass the pigskin because that's the right thing to do.

Do it at pork rind day.com. I actually found our next guest on social media because I'm such a nerd and I'm really interested in the business side of sports, but also because there've been some major developments when it comes to how we consume our sports and how the NFL and other leagues move forward. So we sat down with Daniel Kaplan, who's a business reporter on radio row for front office sports. And I asked him just to clarify, is it about the business and the football intersecting? Is that where you come in? I meet at the intersection of sports and business.

Yes. The business of sports has just grown exponentially in the last two decades. And you look around here, I mean, you've got podcasters, you have influencers, you have simulcast Pat McAfee's around the corner from here. Radio row started in 1993 with five or 10 radio desks in a little room above a conference hall at the Stadler Hilton in Pasadena. I did, I know this cause I did a story on this this week and I talked to Jim Steege, the former head of events of the NFL and a little story the year before Chris Russo and Mike Francesca, they wanted to go to the lobby of the league headquarters hotel and do their show. That hotel, I think it was a Hyatt, wanted to charge them $40,000.

That's about 90,000 in today's dollars. And so they went across the street to the Holiday Inn apparently, but that got Jim Steege to thinking we need a space for the radio stations at the Super Bowl. Wow. And that's how radio row was born. And now you look around here, I know you radio listeners can't see.

Oh no, we've shared photos and videos so they can see it. I mean, it's, it's crazy when you get FanDuel and DraftKings. I mean, this being Vegas, you walk in here, you see three slot machines. It's crazy.

It is. And even since I started attending, which was San Francisco for Super Bowl 50, it's grown exponentially. As someone who covers the business of sports, why does the NFL have such power as in the Midas touch, everything turns to gold? Well, you'd like to say there's a lot of brain power over there, but, and there is, I mean, they, they do a good job, but the NFL, I mean, it's the made for TV sport and good point. It's also the fact that unlike other leagues, they have a limited number of games and every game means so much and fans look forward to it all off season, all week. And it's a made for TV sport.

There isn't much inventory and it's supply and demand. It always blows me away that we in the United States can agree on very little. And yet on Super Bowl Sunday, a third of our nation is tuned in to one broadcast, right? One game, nothing unites us like football. It's an incredible phenomenon.

It is really an incredible phenomenon. Too bad. That can't be the way the rest of the year.

Right. So when you think about the business part of sports, though, do you have to cover the NFL and then everything else? Cause there really isn't anything like the NFL. Well, I mean, people cover the NFL over the top because that's what draws the readers in personally. One of my favorite sports is tennis and I love covering tennis, but it never gets the readers. I think it's a fascinating sport, but anything you cover in the NFL, it gets the readers in. It's a vicious cycle.

I mean, again, looking around here, this is people want to hear about it. We call it the best reality show on TV. Yes. So we're in Vegas where they're partnering the gambling and the football, right? How much do you think that the betting aspect and the way that betting is growing has to do with the continued growth of the NFL? I think it has a lot to do with it because it's not just the bets on who will win and lose. It's micro bets. It's prop bets.

How much will someone rush for? How many touchdowns will someone? And so that's why you hear a grown or a hooray go up when somebody, you know, gets a five yard gain late in the game of a blowout.

Right. And that's what people are watching. I mean, there's the Taylor Swift effect, of course, with the Kansas City Chiefs and don't discount it. Her fans are tuning in, but the ratings have been going up for several years.

The exception was twenty twenty the pandemic year. And people didn't seem to like watching games with no fans in the stands. Other than that blip, the ratings have just been on a skyrocket ride.

That's a good point. Daniel Kaplan is a writer and insider working with front office sports here on Radio Row. It's after hours on CBS Sports Radio. I'm glad that you mentioned Taylor Swift, because as much as some of my audience is fatigued with the whole storyline, we know that it continues to get the clicks and continues to get the attention. But what's bigger?

Is it Taylor Swift? Is it the NFL? I was at a panel discussion a few hours ago on A.I.

and data. Oh, wow. And at the end of it, Steve Bornstein, they were asking what he was thinking about with the Super Bowl.

Steve Bornstein used to run NFL Network and ESPN. And he said his was the over under on the number of times CBS shows Taylor Swift. And the consensus was the over under is ten.

What do you think? Over under? I think under. I do, too, because I don't know.

There'll be nearly as many touchdowns, as many points for Travis Kelce. And so maybe we won't see her as much. Yeah. CBS, they've heard the criticisms of your listeners.

Really? The people they know it's over the top when every every other play they're going to Taylor Swift in the suite. So I take the under.

OK, but you didn't really answer my question. What's bigger, Tay or the NFL? Well, in my household, it's the NFL.

My daughter's in college. She's not a Taylor Swift fan. Gotcha.

OK, but I like Taylor Swift, but I got to say the NFL is it's here to stay. They are both gigantic entities, that's for sure. The big announcement earlier this week, lot of my listeners really engaged and wondering how it will impact them. This new streaming platform that will be the joint venture of ESPN and Fox and Warner Brothers. Right. Right. And we're talking about folding in 15 different networks.

The four major professional team sports, golf, tennis, NASCAR, pretty much every sport, March Madness. How is this going to work? Well, the it's TBD. The details are not out there. What it's going to cost, you know, will other outlets like Peacock or Paramount Plus, will they become part of it? Oh, gosh. Right. And Peacock, Peacock, it's Comcast, NBC. They have the Olympics.

How would that fit into it? And do you really want you still it has a lot of sports in this trio of streaming networks, but it doesn't have all of them. Paramount Plus has a lot of soccer.

It has a lot of college football. So there's a Peacock. You get into a situation where you got to buy that. You still got to buy this. You still got to buy that. And at a certain point, something like YouTube TV sounds a lot better.

I'm glad you said that because I was talking about it earlier in the week. If you want to watch everything, you're talking about an Apple that now has baseball and other products. Paramount Plus is, as you point out, partners, not just with the soccer, but the NFL. Peacock had games this year.

How about Amazon Prime exclusively Thursday Night Football, then potentially this app that's the merger. When you encounter, whether it's sports fans or the business side of things, is there fatigue yet there? It's not. It's not fatigue.

It's frustration. People are angry that they can't get their sports in one place or all the time. I remember in New York during the when Aaron Judge is going for the home run record, one of the games was on Apple, Apple Plus. And people were furious because if he broke the Roger Maris record on Apple Plus, who would have seen it?

He didn't. But that's just one example. Many, I'm sure your listeners could point to. And now Disney and Fox and Warner Brothers would say, well, this is what we're trying to avoid by putting it all in one place. But the problem is there's so many other outlets that it's just putting the thumb in the dike there.

And you can only afford so much, right? The average American household doesn't have all the discretionary income in the world to be able to shell it out for the apps. And you know, the sports leagues, which apparently were taken by surprise by this announcement, that's what the Wall Street Journal reported yesterday. My discussions over the last day with some people here, they're not thrilled with it. First, they're worried that it actually reduces competition because these are three entities that would be bidding on properties against each other. Do they now collectively bid? So when college football playoffs or NBA, which is up for renewal, goes for, these are now no longer three competitors, they're together. So that's something that sports leagues are not thrilled with. And you know, what does it mean for ESPN's direct-to-consumer? They've been talking about for years bringing ESPN as its own streaming unit, called direct-to-consumer.

And they said they're going to do that in 2025, so now you're going to have this ESPN wrapped into this bundle, and then you're going to have ESPN on its own. It gets really confusing. It does. That's a good point. People ask me all the time, where can I find this game?

Where do I find this property? Because it's a lot to keep track of if you're not familiar with it. And it just keeps getting bigger. So my question then, Daniel, how can leagues turn down the money though? Because there's billions of dollars, for instance, Amazon Prime and Thursday Night Football, there's billions of dollars there. If you're the NFL, it's sort of, this is the problem.

They create different categories of games. Thursday Night Football games, Sunday Night, Monday Night, they slice and dice it. Now Roger Goodell at his press conference said 90% of our games are on network television, so hopefully it stays in that percent range. But you've got something like MLS, they're completely on Apple Plus. And Major League Baseball, they've been putting their games on Apple Plus and others.

So I'd like to offer some, you know, some soothing words to the listeners, but I don't think there are any. Wow, it's going to continue to change. Daniel Kaplan from Front Office Sports with us here on Radio Row. You mentioned AI, that's such a buzz term right now. Whether it's technology or sports, what does the NFL have to do with AI? Well, I'll give you one little example.

And I'm going back to that panel discussion that I was at. Executive from the NFL, Hans Schroeder, said they're going to begin using AI and creating the schedule. Now, I talked to him after the panel and he said they sort of use it already and it depends on, it's a semantics thing, what is AI?

Amazon web services they use right now, AWS, and that's really like high-speed computing. It's massive data processing and it turns out millions of schedules for them right now that they call. But he says the problem with that is that it all relies on human input. If a human inputs something wrong, the computer just goes on that. So what they're looking at is adaptive AI, AI that learns. This is the scariest that people, you know, science fiction stuff. And so it would be basically leaving it to the computers without human input to create the schedule.

That's incredible. Now, I don't know how far off that is, probably not next year, but that's where the future is. But you can imagine, if the NFL goes that direction, other leagues will as well because the NFL, as we talked about, tends to make money pretty much everywhere it goes. And so the other leagues will start to copy. In fact, leagues like the NBA probably will move it first. I mean, the NBA has been way out front on a lot of these issues. It was 2013 that Adam Silver wrote his op-ed in the New York Times that sports gambling should be legal. It was five years after that that the Supreme Court lifted the ban. So I wouldn't be surprised.

I haven't talked to the NBA that they're already well ahead of the pace of the NFL. I know it's a lot to cover, a lot to keep track of, but it's so great to be able to connect with you. Something fun, though. Who's your favorite tennis player? My favorite tennis player? All-time or currently? Currently. Let me think.

Did I catch you off guard? Yeah. You could go all-time if you want. I like Ben Shelton.

Okay. What about all-time? Justine Anna. She had the greatest one-handed backhand I ever saw. Well, I was a huge Stephie Groff fan when I was growing up, so she was my favorite. And also John McEnroe because of the personality, of course. John McEnroe was great.

He was. Well, it's great to meet you. Remind us Twitter so we can find you on Twitter. It's Kaplan Sports Biz. And here this week on Radio Row covering the NFL for front office sports.

That's right. Thanks so much for a couple of minutes. It was great to talk to you.

It was great to talk to you. Daniel Kaplan. He really appeals to the nerdy side of me and the side of me that digs the business aspect of sports and the industry. And the story about how one hotel's $40,000 mistake actually was the birth of Radio Row.

That's awesome. Check it out on front office sports or on Daniel's Twitter. But also there are some mixed reactions to this new sports streaming platform. A lot of media buyers are worried about the balance of power, and that's what Daniel was talking about. At what point does this become antitrust? At what point does this become a monopoly, which isn't allowed under US antitrust regulations?

But also, as I talked about with Daniel, there's fatigue and there's frustration. Fans are having a hard enough time figuring out where all of these games are parked and where they're housed and where they're located. What if you have to buy five, six different streaming apps? What if you have to pick up and choose among them, which is my situation? You're going to miss stuff.

So here's my response to that. Thank the Lord for radio. From Las Vegas at 98.5 HD to the Bet. We're in another hall of famer coming up.

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A peanut butter M&M's production. In a world where Super Bowl winners get the world's admiration and a fancy ring, but the runners up get nothing. One retired cop returns. That's one retired quarterback. Read the script.

Oh, sorry. One retired quarterback returns to claim what's his. Um, that's claim a ring with diamonds made from M&M's peanut butter. But you're on a roll. The Ring of Comfort coming soon to a Super Bowl.