The spiritual condition of America, politics, culture, and current events, analyzed through the lens of Scripture. Welcome to the Alex McFarland Show. In Proverbs 22.6, very famously, the Word of God says, train up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old, they will not depart from it.
Hi, Alex McFarland here. You know, our children are our most important stewardship, really. And I will say as a speaker, traveling evangelist over the years, it's always hard when I'm in a church or in a lobby and parents are tearfully pouring out their heart to me about their children. Maybe they've raised their children in church and tried to impart Christianity to their children. And yet, as the child is in maybe the teenage years, late adolescence, young adulthood, the child does a 180 and goes the exact opposite direction.
Well, we're going to talk about that. What do we do when a child turns prodigal, maybe even prodigal in the most unthinkable ways? And we've got a wonderful speaker and author, Melinda Patrick, that we're going to talk with about the prodigals.
And as I cue this up, let me give a little trajectory. Twenty years ago, it seemed like the ditch, if you will, that prodigals would fall into would be atheism or agnosticism. Twenty years ago, I remember I was on the road speaking, and many a parent would come up to me, and I could almost predict the way the conversation would go. They would say, Mr. McFarland, we've raised our child in church, youth group, Christian school. They've gone away to the university, and now they tell us they don't believe in God anymore. And that's heartbreaking. And we would work with many parents about that. But in recent years, I would say certainly in the last ten years, the heartbreak has not necessarily been over agnosticism or atheism, but I can always see it coming.
Parents stand in line, they want to talk, and they'll say, we don't understand it. Our child that made a profession of faith, our son, our daughter, has now embraced the gay lifestyle, the trans lifestyle. Well, to get some insight on this, and what maybe are the causes, and then what as a Christian family is the best approach when dealing with this, is author Melinda Patrick. Her website, MelindaPatrick.org, she's a board member of the Restored Hope Network, and you know that name. Our wonderful colleague, Ann Palk, and we've known Ann for 20 years, literally. Ann and I worked together at Focus on the Family many years ago. Ann Palk has built what in my opinion is probably the preeminent ministry about this, speaking from a spiritual and intellectual position, a biblical position, the Restored Hope Network, and a part of that is Melinda Patrick to share her story about a prodigal and standing strong without compromise for Christianity. But Melinda, thank you for making time to be with us on the program today, but even more importantly, thank you for what you're doing to minister to people everywhere about this topic. We welcome you.
Thank you, Alex, and thank you for inviting me onto your show today. So give us a little bit of your background, how God brought you to where you are in your journey and in your ministry. Tell us about yourself.
Yes. So back in the early 2000s, I was a mom. I'm still a mom, but at that time I had two teenagers.
I was a single mom. I was a Bible teacher at a local high school. I was also on the women's ministry team at a local church. And I taught women's Bible study in the church and in my home.
So you would have thought and I thought I had everything going great in my life. And in 2011, my daughter came to me and shared that she experienced same sex attraction. And that began us on the journey that we're on today. And God has been growing and equipping and refining and pruning me over these years. And now I find it such a joy to be able to minister to families and to parents. And He's even given me the opportunity to walk through healing with some of those coming out of LGBT and walking in healing and wholeness with Jesus Christ. Being involved in church and serving the Lord in so many ways, as you have done and are doing, and your child confesses that they're feeling same sex attraction, initially was there a feeling of shame or guilt about this?
Even though we know the spiritual dynamics, you can do everything right as a Christian parent and still things can go awry. But did you feel shame over this? Yes, I often say that when my daughter came out of the closet, I went into the closet. And over the course of probably six months of her sharing that information with me, I eventually pulled myself off the women's ministry team. I stopped leading Bible studies.
I left the church that I raised my children in and I began attending a church and sitting on the back row where no one knew me and no one would have even asked questions. And the enemy piled quite a big bit of shame on me. Why didn't I stop this? Why didn't I see this coming? Is there something I could have done that could have stopped her or rescued her? Why didn't I protect her? And I was just taking on tons of shame and guilt and responsibility. How did the dynamics of your relationship with your daughter change once she came clean with you about this?
Yes. When my daughter came to me, she actually did it not in a prideful or boastful way. She wasn't putting her hand up. She actually came to me and said, Hey, Mom, I need to talk to you. I need to share something with you. And she began to share with me that she experienced same sex attraction, that it's something that she had prayed and asked and asked and asked God to take away.
And he hadn't. So she assumed that this was who he created her to be and she embraced it. Where we went in a downward spiral actually fell back on me because my words to her were, it's okay. Let me get you to a counselor in six months. We'll have you fixed and no one will know we've walked this journey. I look back now and what I should have said is, I love you.
This doesn't change your worth. I have not experienced what you experienced, but I want to walk this through with you. And thank you for sharing your heart with me. So my first reaction sent her, of course, you would expect you just share with someone your heart, your deepest, most painful areas of your heart.
And they say, that's okay, I'm going to get you fixed. That's immediately going to probably cause anyone to put walls up. And so we started in this downward spiral. And she would eventually, over the course of a few weeks, move out and move in with her father. And for the next two years, we would have a very strange, very alienated relationship.
And I almost like adversarial. Absolutely. And I wasn't a safe place to be around. There were some things that the Lord needed to work on my heart.
And again, it wasn't 100 percent my fault, but I do want to take responsibility where being a mom and a follower of Jesus Christ, my response was not the best that day. We are talking with Melinda Patrick for those just tuning in. And she is the author of a book, The Daring Rescue, Joining Jesus Christ in His Pursuit of Your LGBTQ-Identified Child's Heart. Melinda Hardy Patrick.
You've got to take a brief break. The website, MelindaPatrick.org. Stay tuned. We'll talk about dealing with children who turn to the gay trans lifestyles after this. Don't go away. Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. Mark Twain said the man that won't read is no better off than the man who can't read.
Hi, Alex McFarland. When it comes to voting, I think voting is like that. The person who won't vote is really in no different position than the person who can't vote.
And here in the United States of America, we can vote. And I urge you to do so. Now, to help you in your decision-making process about the persons with whom you should cast your vote, on my website, AlexMcFarland.com slash vote, I urge you to go to that. We've created a first-time voter's guide, AlexMcFarland.com slash vote. We talk about the issues, really what the constitutional position is, and even the biblical position.
So please, pray for the country. And I beg of you, don't passively opt out, but actively be informed, influence others, plan to vote. Download our free voter's guide, AlexMcFarland.com slash vote.
He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely. Welcome back to The Alex McFarland Show. Welcome back to the program.
Alex McFarland here, along with our very special guest, author, speaker, Melinda Patrick. You know, it does seem to be the spiritual struggle of our times, the rise, the mainstreaming of the homosexual movement. More and more young people feel okay with embracing this. We just, as you are hearing this program, we're wrapping up nine summer camps over the summer of 2024.
Seven camps that our ministry organized, and two additional camps that I've spoken at. And it's interesting to me how many young people now feel very free in talking about homosexuality, very fluid, being opposite-sex attracted, then same-sex attracted, then bi-curious. I mean, it's one way, and Melinda, as I welcome you back, again let me say how much I appreciate you, your courageous, frank willingness to speak about this. But I'm just going to say it as a Bible-believing Christian, but also as a pastor and counselor, my post-grad work at Liberty and Developmental Psych, I'm going to say it this way. I believe this is one of the ways Satan has tried to work to destroy a generation. It's not so much social, sexual, it's spiritual, really. I believe the attack and the mainstreaming of homosexuality and transgenderism is Satan's attempt to ensnare the souls of millions of people. Fundamentally, this is a spiritual issue. Would you agree?
100 percent, Alex. Our God is a generational God, and you see that from Genesis all throughout His Word. And if He is after the generations and for the generations, wouldn't you think that Satan would absolutely be after the generations himself? I mean, look at this whole trans movement. It's sterilization of children. It's knocking out generations to come. And so one of the problems we have today is we're focused on what's happening in the here and now. And so we may be like with my daughter. I'm not just fighting for my daughter. I'm fighting for the generations to come. I'm possibly fighting for my grandkids, my great-grandkids that aren't even here yet. And so I believe we need to, one of the most powerful things that we can do as parents is begin to see with an eternal perspective and see beyond the generation that's right in front of us and fight for those generations yet to come. And let's just say, the Bible tells us in John 10, verse 10, the thief, Satan, the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
Absolutely. The Lord Jesus is about life and abundant life and everlasting life. Satan is about death, and you're quite right.
This is part of Satan's ploy to try to destroy generations that could come and be worshipers of the true God. So understand, moms and dads, if you're listening and you say, oh, well, we have a child that's in the lifestyle, or we have a nephew or niece and we're brokenhearted, understand this first and most fundamentally, this is a spiritual battle. Yes. Wouldn't you agree that victory and the success, victory, there must be the recognition that this is spiritual, not just physical or intellectual or emotional?
Absolutely. We need to fight this battle on our knees instead of fighting it with our words and our, you know, our actions and our fists towards our loved ones. And this battle is won when we humble and submit, when we repent, when we allow God to do work in us, that enables us to join him where he's at work and pursuing our children. But it starts with us humbling ourselves before him.
So, and again, I want to say thank you for being willing to share your story. Let me ask you this. How do you advise Christian parents to have a civil conversation? How can you talk and interact so that it does not, you know, blow up and become adversarial and an argument?
Because I've had many parents, good, well-meaning Christian parents, and they'll tell these stories of how a heart-to-heart conversation quickly escalates into a shouting match. Can that even be avoided, Melinda? Well, it can and it can't, because one thing I've learned on this journey, Alex, is I can only control one person, and that's me. So I can't control my daughter or anyone else I'm speaking to. I can't, you know, control their reaction or how they're going to respond in the conversation. So one of the things that I believe is important is, one, if you know you're going into, and it's not always possible, but if you know you're going into a hard conversation, start that conversation first on your knees and bathing it in prayer before the Lord.
Just asking for your heart to be right, for you to be sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit, and ask for the Holy Spirit to go before and begin to prepare the one you're speaking with. But I think also, going back to we can only control us, if we can keep ourselves in a place of peace and calmness and take as much emotion out of it as possible, that's going to help. But bringing the conversation back to reality. You know, hey, if you're speaking to your child, I've always been here for you.
You know, I'm your mom. I've always done what I thought was best. And I think listening to their heart, letting them know, I want before we start this conversation, I just want to hear your heart. I want to understand where you're at. I haven't experienced what you're walking through.
I don't want to pretend that I am. So let me have the time to hear your heart. And oftentimes, we may need to go back and say, let's put a pause on the conversation right now. I want to process what I've heard.
You take that for a day or two or however long you need necessary. Take it back. Say, Holy Spirit, this is what I heard. What do you have to say and how do you want me to respond? But I think the more we can be in check with ourselves and the more we can surrender our hearts and listen to the Holy Spirit and to our child, that's going to really help. You know, Melinda, I've found in counseling families and even in our own family, I jokingly say that we as human beings, we have more baggage than Samsonite. When you bring stuff out and talk about it, that's part of the victory because Satan thrives in the shadows, suppressing things. And let's be honest, none of us have it all together, even to any degree that our life is together is due to the dear Lord Jesus, you know. So good Christian families, quote unquote, church-going folk, there are arguments, there are divorces, there is substance abuse. Just because a family is made up of born-again, Bible-believing Christians doesn't mean the devil just leaves you alone. So I want to say to all the people out there, and maybe you speak to this, moms and dads, you've got a child that's struggling with whatever sin, don't be ashamed and don't try to cover it up. It's just part of life in a fallen, sinful world.
Speak to the fact that, hey, we're all in a spiritual battle, aren't we? Yes, and one of the best things that happened with me and my daughter on this journey is, you know, I sent us off in a downward spiral. So I went to Christian counseling. I obviously have some heart wounds.
I am reacting to this and I'm not responding in a way that would be honoring to the Lord. And the Lord began to reveal wounds and cracks in my own heart. I talked about my daughter having a broken identity, but he was revealing that my identity was broken. And she had pride. We talk about the LGBT pride, but I had pride as well.
I thought I knew the best way to rescue my daughter. And so one of the things that really helped in our relationship was me being transparent with her about my own healing and going back to her and saying, hey, this is what the Lord revealed in my heart. And I've had to repent and ask forgiveness with him. And so this was done against you.
And I want to ask for forgiveness here for the things that I might have said or, you know, I would be specific as the Lord would bring them up. And I think that's one of the best things that we can do in a family is this is not just a one person isolation, disease or sin in the family. This affects the whole family. And so we need to deal with it as a family. And if my child is not willing to get help, you know, I'm the adult here.
And so I'm I'm not going to ask someone to do something that I'm not willing to do. And so we need to be open and honest with our own heart wounds and healing. We've got to take a brief break before we pull away. Melinda, where may people find your book? Amazon or on my website, MelindaPatrick.org. Stay tuned, folks.
We're back after this. Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland, a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. Christian author and speaker Alex McFarland is an advocate for Christian apologetics, teaching in more than twenty two hundred churches around the world, schools and college campuses. Alex is driven by a desire to help people grow in relationship with God. He arms his audiences with the tools they need to defend their faith, while also empowering the unchurched to find out the truth for themselves. In the midst of a culture obsessed with relativism, Alex is a sound voice who speaks timeless truths of Christianity in a timely way. With 18 published books to his name, it's no surprise that CNN, Fox, The Wall Street Journal and other media outlets have described Alex as a religion and culture expert. To learn more about Alex and to book him as a speaker at your next event, visit Alex McFarland dot com. Or you can contact us directly by emailing booking at Alex McFarland dot com.
He's been called trusted, truthful and timely. Welcome back to The Alex McFarland Show. Welcome back to the program. Alex McFarland here. Before we resume our conversation with Melinda Patrick, I want to invite people to go to our newly redesigned website, Alex McFarland dot com. My tour schedule is on there. Also, this one web page especially, I would urge you to please look at Alex McFarland dot com slash vote, V-O-T-E. Alex McFarland dot com slash vote.
You know, we're talking to a lot of people that are first time voters or maybe they haven't voted in a long time. There's a lot on the table. As you know, we cover a lot of this in our shows.
So check out the website. Please pray for what we're doing, events, publishing, broadcasting, to call our nation back to God and truth. Well, somebody that I believe the Lord is using in a great way. She's a board member of the Restored Hope Network, Melinda Patrick.
Her website is MelindaPatrick dot org. By the way, again, I want to thank you for being willing to talk about these things. You know, let me say this, Melinda, if you would, talk to parents that they say, you know, I want to love my child, but very often, and my heart grieves, that love becomes almost like apologizing for the biblical worldview and backing away from it.
And let me give you an example. My wife and I were counseling just about a week ago with a mom. The husband has passed. So it's a widow, and she has a son, an adult son, who has come out as gay and very, very militant about it. So over the summer, they had a meal, and she, in a very calm and loving way, and I believe her when she says that. But she shared the gospel, and she said, you know, I just care about your soul, and I want to make sure that you know the Lord. And she didn't go straight for the homosexual activity. She kept it about the gospel.
Tell me about your walk with the Lord. Well, apparently, the conversation did not end well. And so she wrote him a letter, and she read the letter to us. And basically, she apologized for being a Christian and pretty much said, Son, if it's you or Jesus, know that I love you. And it's like she threw Jesus and the gospel under the bus.
An overcorrective. I don't think that's the right approach either. You see what I'm saying? If it comes down to, do I apologize for being a follower of Christ? No.
Not going to do that. Speak to this if you would. Yes. We saw this also, Alex. I don't know if you watch American Idol, but back this last season, they brought in a previous guest, and he sang a song. And it was about his mom. The title of the song was Hell Together, H-E-L-L, Together. And the song was written in honor of his mom and how when he shared with her that he had same sex attraction and was leaving the church, that she said, Well, if the church isn't going to love you, I'm leaving the church as well. And we'll go to hell together. If that does not break your heart. And that's one of the prayers for my book to get it into the hands and let parents know that there is a way that we can love our children well and continue to hold truth and hold firm to the truth and the hope in Jesus Christ.
And to me, compromise is saying, you know, I get it. I get it. I'm a mom. And when my daughter shared with me this, I was a single mom. And so it was her senior year of high school. I wanted nothing more than to be highly involved in her life.
I wanted to cheer her on and everything she had going on. And so I get it. But compromise says that my, as a parent, compromise says that my temporal wants are more important than my daughter's eternal needs. And we've got to get back to the place where eternity is right there in front of us.
We need an eternal perspective. And so holding firm to truth says that my daughter's eternal needs are more important than my temporal wants. I'm willing to go through rejection.
I'm willing to be judged. I'm willing to be tossed to the side or shut out of her life. Because to me, eternity is what matters.
What we see right now and what we experience with our kids right now, this can be gone in just a moment. But I would rather spend eternity with her. And so I want to be that parent who loves her well, which is part of holding firm to Jesus Christ and holding firm to that, you know, living out that plumb line before her.
But I want to love her well. But I also am more concerned about where she's going to spend eternity. And so I trust that Jesus Christ is going to take care of my temporal wants as I continue to press on him and trust him to pursue my daughter. You know, we hear a lot of sad stories of prodigals. But I will say this, and I want to say to everybody listening, I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people, ordinary people and authors, and I've interviewed a lot of people. All right, there are stories of the prodigals that fall away. But I have also been privileged to hear truly hundreds of stories of prodigals that come home. Yes. So Melinda, wouldn't you say to the moms and the dads that be in this for the long journey? Yes.
Because very often it does. The Lord works through years, through circumstances. Just week before last at one of our camps, Melinda, I was talking to a person who went into the trans lifestyle for a number of years. In fact, when I first counseled this young man, he had long hair, makeup, he was identifying as a female. This young man comes up to me, and a great-looking, all-American, young adult male, he said, Mr. McFarland, do you remember me?
And I said, I'm sorry, I don't remember you. He said, well, you led me to Christ about a year and a half ago. Anyway, long story short, it took a number of years, but he realized that the trans lifestyle was not who he was. He was empty, and he came back to Christ on his own free will and is now living as a male.
He is a male. But here's the point. We've got to be in this prayerfully, consistently, wisely, but we've got to be in it for the long haul. Don't you think moms and dads need to know this? The journey might be long, so don't just throw in the towel in the short term.
Yes. And the Lord has given me their secret hidden gifts and treasures that the Lord has for us on this journey as parents. And one of those that he has given to me is the opportunity to disciple and walk with other females who are leaving the LGBTQ community. And so I am able to walk through that healing process with them. And one of the things that they will say is when I became tired of the lies, I went to the people who held firm to the word of God, who held truth for me, who said the hard things, even when they knew I didn't want to hear it. They continued to love me and continue to remain anchored to truth. And so, Alex, let's be honest. At the end of the day, I believe that God is going to open the eyes of my daughter, that he is going to fully pursue her. I don't want her to come back to me and say, Mom, why did you not hold for truth? Was I not worth it? And was Jesus not worth it?
This is so powerful. And moms, dads, please lean in and listen closely. And I want to hear your story, not my own story. But I just want to say, over the years, Melinda, we've seen atheists, I'm talking activist-level atheists, come to Christ and get born again. We've seen those in all manner of sexual sin, not only same-sex attraction. I've counseled many men with opposite-sex attraction.
Let me say, heterosexual promiscuity, that too is a sin. But very patiently, very calmly, without losing one's temper, we stand strong. We will not compromise the Word of God. And you're right, that way, when the light bulb does come on, and somebody says, Oh, I'm tired of the lies. I'm tired of the cover-up. I'm tired of fighting reality. When they want truth, they will come back to the ones that stood for truth. Amen. And when we begin to compromise in our walk, our children are now losing trust and respect in us.
I want somebody to be the same today, tomorrow and yesterday. If my husband came to me one day and said he feels this, and then the next week, he's like, you know what, well, maybe I do want to side with you here. I'm going to be like, you need to choose.
You have to stand one way or the other, and I'm going to lose trust and confidence and respect for him. And it boils down to, do I know who Jesus Christ is? Do I know that He is able and capable and all powerful, that He is able to meet my temporary wants in the midst of this pain? You know, when my daughter and I were separated, God still met my deepest desires in that time. And He's not a God who just leaves us in these places, you know, without Him, just despondent and without hope.
He is here. And when we choose to stand with Him, He will give us everything that we stand in need of. Amen.
Amen. You know, this could be another subject for another day, and we're almost out of time today, but Mark 9 26 says some things are only achieved by prayer and fasting. And you know, what advice do you have as we wrap up today, Melinda, for the parent that needs to have the heart-to-heart conversation, the parent that needs to, for their own strength and presence of mind, really get their feet firmly planted on Christ and His Word, just navigating this journey? Any final thought that you would give the people listening?
And also include how people can contact you and follow how God is using you. Yes, thank you, Alex. I would say the first thing is, you know, we cannot control other people. We can only control ourselves. And there are many things, the enemy wants us to look at the things that we cannot do on this journey. But there are some mighty powerful things that we can do, and that's what we need to focus on. We can humble and surrender and submit our hearts to the Lord.
We can bow the knee to Him on this journey. Your child has a Creator, and it's Creator God, and He has a plan and purpose. So the best way to move in and to minister to your child is to learn how to hear the voice of the Lord. And we do that by spending time in the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to bring revelation to our hearts and walk this transformation journey out with them.
Don't try to hide it. You know, if the Lord reveals things in your heart that you need to ask for forgiveness for with them, go do that. We need to model transformation before our children. We need to teach our children what forgiveness looks like.
And your child is not a problem to fix, but a person to love. And so two of the biggest prayers that I pray are, Lord, give me an eternal perspective, and then give me eyes to see my daughter the way that You see her, and teach me how to love her in a way that she is open and receptive, and that she would experience You through me. Wow. Powerful. Powerful. Well, Melinda Patrick, I want to thank you. The name of the book is The Daring Rescue, available at Amazon and everywhere else.
Her website, MelindaPatrick.org. Folks, this is really kind of the issue of our times. Every generation of Christians has the issue, the spiritual, intellectual, biblical issue, and there is the test. And I want to challenge every one of you, stand strong, stay bold, and stay encouraged, because our God is in control, and truth does prevail. Remember what Jesus said in John 10, 35, the scripture cannot be broken. So let's stand with the Word of God and Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Thank you for listening. Alex McFarland Ministries are made possible through the prayers and financial support of partners like you. For over 20 years, this ministry has been bringing individuals into a personal relationship with Christ and has been equipping people to stand strong for truth. Learn more and donate securely online at alexmcfarland.com. You may also reach us at Alex McFarland, P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404, or by calling 1-877-YES-GOD-1.
That's 1-877-YES-GOD-1. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again on the next edition of the Alex McFarland Show.
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