A Conversation with Debbie Chavez of My Faith Votes

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together. It's reasoned, relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know. From Alex McFarland Evangelistic Ministries, welcome to Truth For A New Generation Radio.

And now the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. One of my favorite quotes from the colonial era of America, I'm sure you've heard it many times, is this. It's attributed to Edmund Burke.

He was a statesman in colonial America, but the revolution was looming and it was time to really take a stand. And Edmund Burke said, �All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.� Think about that. The difference that one individual can make. My friend, the difference that you can make. And if we stay silent, if we don't take a stand when we should take a stand, the words of Edmund Burke come down to us through the corridors of time.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Hi, Alex McFarland here. You're listening to Truth For A New Generation Radio. Folks, this is a very special show and you don't want to miss it because I'm here in Colorado with a colleague, a very valued colleague and friend for God and Country, Debbie Chavez. I first met Debbie some years ago through our mutual friend, Mark Cowart, who has been on the program many times. Debbie was with Colorado Family Policy Council. She has defended your freedoms in courtrooms throughout America. She is a dear sister in Christ, but she is also a champion for liberty and truth, a very influential figure on the American political landscape.

And we've got a few minutes with her and I really cherish these times. Debbie, I want to say thanks for being with us. But thank you for all that you do so courageously, so fruitfully to stand up for our Constitution and our nation. Welcome to our program. Thank you, Alex.

I appreciate you having me here. And you know, I'll tell you one thing that Jeremiah said. He said, I can't but speak. And that's how I feel that I am every day.

I can't but be about God's business and out there telling people, why does it matter in the public square? We can't help but speak. Luther said, you know, here I stand, I can do no other.

But when I was at my 25th high school reunion, I'm showing my age here a little bit, somebody came up to me and said, who are you and what have you done with Alex McFarland? And I said, you know, well, I became a Christian when I was in college. But Jeremiah 20 verse nine says his word was in my heart like a burning fire.

That verse moves me, I suspect it moves you. That's why we speak out. That's why we share the gospel.

We get out there out of our comfort zone. But speak to us for a moment. I want to hear what you're doing, but I want to hear your story. How did you meet the Lord? And how did he put his word within you like a burning fire? So you know, I love God's faithfulness, I came to know the Lord at 11. And I see that whether I was walking and serving him or not, he was following me, he was with me alongside of me, because I had those years where I actually stepped away. But I also see that he orchestrated my steps, even in childhood, to help me carry his word outside the walls of the church, and take it out there to the world. So as an 11 year old, I met Jesus at church camp, and it was phenomenal. I grew up in a Christian home, and it was what we did, not who we were.

And as I became an adult and understood that this is a personal relationship, that was a game changer for me. And I actually had a wake-up call from the Lord that was kind of jolting. I dreamed one night that Rapture happened, and I was left behind.

I lived in California at the time, and I looked out the window and nothing was moving, and I thought, oh boy, this is real. But I remembered the phone number of the pastor that I knew at 11 when I came to know Jesus, and I called him and he answered the phone at two in the morning, and I hung up that phone and I said, thank God I have another chance, I'm going to get my act together. And that was my start of my journey to really plant the Lord's word in my heart, and know how to use it, and live it, and have that relationship. That was very smart, because you knew if the Rapture had come, he would have gone to be with the Lord, so him still being here, that was assurance for you, wasn't it?

It sure was, yes. Well you and I have been very privileged to have a number of mutual friends like Dr. Dobson and others. How did God lead you into Christian service, and even to be an influencer politically? Actually this is a fun journey, and this is where people can see that all you have to do is be available.

The Lord is out there waiting for those vessels to use. I was a mom, I homeschooled my kids, and I started homeschooling by accident. They went to a tiny Christian school, and all the teachers were going to quit one year. And they said, tell you what, we'll help you homeschool, we think it's a good idea. And that's how I became a homeschool mom. I have seven kids.

My oldest was 10 at that time. And as we homeschooled and used a Christian curriculum, I found out we had a godly nation. And I said, oh my goodness, I never learned this in public school.

And I was so passionate, I took my kids' books to bed with me at night, and I would read ahead. And I said, I want to be a godly patriot like that. So I only had four kids then, and I said, let's go volunteer at one of those political parties. So I show up with my kids, and we said, we're here, we just want to volunteer, we're godly patriots. And they said, we don't know you, what do you want to do?

I said, I'll do anything. So you know what, Alex, they had me clean the bathroom. And I did clean that bathroom until they trusted me. No, was this in California?

No, this was actually in Colorado. And so my children learned young, we're going to serve, and we're going to show that we are trustworthy and honest. And eventually, the more I served there, I realized that in a political party, there are roles that have authority to determine how a party platform is formed to determine who's going to get on a ballot, because there are all these details that go into that background.

So I volunteered more, I ran for office within the party so that I could have higher levels of influence. And the more that I did that, I realized that I wasn't seeing people from my church show up. So I called an organization in DC, I actually called the Family Research Council. And I said, Hey, what are you doing in Colorado with pastors?

And they said, Well, you know, nothing right now. I said, Tell you what, I'm a homeschool mom, if you send your materials to my house, I'll drive around and drop in on pastors. And I really thought all I had to do was show up at their church and say, Hey, guess what?

We need you out here. Show up with your values. Well, it's not that simple.

How well I know. And I would suspect you probably didn't have a lot of pastors that said, Oh, boy, I'll begin to preach political messages from the pulpit. I mean, what was the reception as you knocked on the doors of pastors?

Mostly No, I had cute kids, though. So that helped get in the door. But a few of them said yes. But the ones that said yes, said, Well, who are the godly candidates?

And I said, I don't know. So I started going and interviewing candidates, I wanted to find out where do you stand on these issues that matter to the church. And the more I did that, I realized we needed to recruit candidates. But once we recruited him, we realized they needed a campaign manager. So I accidentally learned how to run campaigns.

And so the Lord just stepped me along the way. And after doing church outreach, and this political arena for a while, focus on the family called one day and said, Hey, we've heard that you do pastors in politics. Would you come and work for us for six months to build up the idea of Colorado family action? That was the Family Policy Council in Colorado.

And it they needed it to be independent, and they needed it to grow and get the name out. And this this girl that had no idea of what that would be like just loved God and wanted to serve. This is Truth For New Generations. Stay tuned. We'll continue our conversation with Debbie Chavez of My Faith Votes. And we're back after this.

DNG Radio. America today is like a patient struggling to live, yet is being forcibly euthanized by her, quote, doctors. The life force within the patient fighting for survival is the honest citizens like yourself.

The team of, quote, caregivers are the local and national leaders actually contributing to the demise of the patient. The economy is crashing. Crime is exploding. The Constitution is being abolished. The assault on America. How to defend our nation before it's too late by Alex McFarland has one single purpose to get you prepared. Learn the real source of America's current problems that no one else is talking about and what you can do now to face tomorrow, regardless of what tomorrow brings. The assault on America. How to defend our nation before it's too late.

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For apologetics resources, books by Alex McFarland, and to find out where Alex is speaking, visit alexmcfarland.com. Welcome back to Truth for a New Generation. We're having a conversation with Debbie Chavez. I do want to remind everybody, we've got several really exciting things coming up with Truth for a New Generation television.

Okay, listen up, especially if you're in the mid-Atlantic region. March 8, we're going to be filming our show with Will Graham, son of Franklin Graham, great, incredible speaker. March 8.

March 15, David Barton, in my opinion, America's greatest historian, God and country, the facts about our founding, David Barton. And then March 22, from Fox News in New York City, Lauren Green, longtime colleague and friend. Now I want you to be there. We, and we don't always do this, but we're going to have a studio audience. It's in High Point, North Carolina. If you want to attend one of the tapings, and it is a fundraiser for Truth for a New Generation Ministries, but you'll get to see what we do.

You'll get to see how television is made in a national studio where you have seen productions and commercials that have come out of this studio. But email us, and here's how you reach us. You can email info, I-N-F-O, at alexmcfarland.com. March 8, Will Graham. March 15, David Barton.

March 22, Lauren Green. It's going to be exciting. It's going to be an unforgettable evening of television, great content, and some of our nation's premier Christian leaders. You can be there in our studio audience.

Email us info at alexmcfarland.com if you would like to join us. But I'll resume our conversation now with Debbie Chavez, and I want to say thanks for your humility and your service, going in there cleaning, just a volunteer. But God elevated you, didn't he? As you were faithful, as you had the heart of a servant, the Lord began to elevate you, didn't he? He did, and I'll tell you what I didn't know about being involved in a political party. At that time, I finally got up to the level that I was at the state level, and I was in a conversation, actually a meeting, about party platform items.

And the way that it worked in our state, we actually had resolutions that worked their way on up through the party, and then they went to the national level to develop the platform. And in one of those meetings, someone said, you know, nobody ever talks about marriage anymore. Should we just take man-woman marriage out of the platform? And I looked around at the seven people in the room, and I said, wait a minute, you could do that? And they said, well, nobody talks about it. And I didn't realize that people have to keep these values front and center, or they could be dropped. And so what I said to everybody in the room was, listen, I have a camera, and I'll take your picture and send it to the press, and I'm going to expose that.

You cannot drop man-woman marriage out of that platform. How did they react to that? I mean, I applaud you really kind of drawing a line in the sand playing hardball, but how did they all react? You know, I think they were shocked that I thought it was so important, because civil unions had already passed in our state. And so they weren't concerned, but they left it in.

And that was good. But that's one of the reasons that I tell people, get involved in those political parties. Most people don't understand that a political party actually gets free media attention.

People want to know what they say all the time. People look at those party platforms. We need to strengthen party platforms to stand for life, for marriage, for religious freedom, for choice and education, for those values that are core to society. And that's why believers must step into this arena, taking our biblical responsibility and biblical perspective. Everything else is public opinion. I want to lay out one of my pet subjects.

In fact, as a Christian, obviously my number one subject is the gospel and people having a relationship with Christ. But as an American, and I teach constitutional history at a number of Christian schools as adjunct instructor, one of my core, core subjects, Debbie, is natural law. Now Jefferson in the Declaration, he said, we hold these truths to be self-evident. You read the writings of Washington.

George Washington talked about the laws of nature and nature's God. Now, and I want your response to this, because liberals, whenever I'm in some panel, if you talk about marriage or life, they'll quickly say, ah, the First Amendment prohibits you from injecting your religion. There's the non-establishment clause.

So we understand you're pro-life, Alex. We understand your traditional marriage. But that's your religion. And we keep religion out by virtue of the First Amendment.

Now, the way I argue it, and I want to know if any of your colleagues or the persons with whom you interact would go there, I would say, look, forget religion for a moment. The Declaration, Constitution, Bill of Rights is based on what we call natural law. And so part of the reason I'm against gay marriage is because it is against this ubiquitous, universal moral awareness that the founders built our government on.

All of that to ask you this, Debbie, is it productive at all to argue traditional marriage, to argue pro-life, to argue against the indoctrination of children in transgender ideology, not based on Bible and Christianity, though we do believe it, but based on what the philosophical framework of the founding of the nation was. And if you study the founders, you can't mistake that they built the revolution and the government and our culture on this moral foundation called natural. Kennedy said so in 61. Truman said so.

Even Ted Kennedy, when Ted Kennedy spent at Liberty University in 1983, and I urge people to watch the video, Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, Ted Kennedy comes out and says, we all agree this is a Christian nation or it's liberal. So what is the status of belief in natural law, Debbie Chavez? Well, actually, I'll ask a question then. And Dennis Prager asks this question, is murder wrong? And if it is, how do you know?

And you have to have a way to know. And knowing that comes from moral law. The 10 commandments lay down moral law. We have no other place to get that from than public opinion. And if you want public opinion, then Dennis will also say, it's like saying, I don't like murder. It's not saying that murder is wrong. So if we want to be able to know what is right and wrong, we have to adhere to moral law.

Thank you. I'm so thrilled because otherwise all we have is who's got the loudest megaphone. We have 10,000 voices shouting at each other. Part of the genius of America and what made us the most stable, prosperous, free nation in history, second only to Israel under King Solomon was the fact that we had this objective moral standard. It was nobody's opinion. It was something transcendentally beyond any of us. It was the moral code, wasn't it?

It was. And here's the other thing that makes America unique other than any other nation. And that is that we established religious freedom as a platform in our constitution that is not an issue to be debated. It's a platform that allows freedom for all, not just some. The only people that have been pushed off of that platform are Christians. And right now that is the voice that they are trying to silence. That platform is for everyone, whether they serve God or not. But that sets us apart.

And if we take that away, there is no great nation in this world. Stay tuned. Truth for a New Generation is back after this. Send your kids to a summer camp that will change their lives for the gospel and equip them to defend the faith. Truth for a New Generation presents the Unashamed Biblical Worldview Camp, Go Deeper with God at the Refuge Camp of Eastern North Carolina, July 17th through 22nd. Your eighth through 12th graders will hear from evangelist and apologist Dr. Alex McFarland, as well as conference speakers, pro-family activists and radio hosts Will and Miki Addison from American Family Radio as they share with your kids ways to effectively engage and transform the culture. Campers will also enjoy swimming, canoeing, fishing, soccer, volleyball, archery, and a whole lot more. A great summer camp of fun and faith building, the TNG Unashamed Biblical Worldview Camp, July 17th through 27th at the Refuge Camp in Aiden, North Carolina.

To learn more and to register, visit alexmcfarland.com. The Apostle Peter wrote 1 Peter to remind us that Christians have true and lasting hope in their Savior, Jesus Christ. Because Jesus conquered death in an incorruptible glorified body, we can be sure that our salvation has permanence as we walk through everyday life. The Billy Graham Training Center at The Cove presents Jesus Christ, Hope That Lives, Hope That Lasts for Every Believer, a special three-day seminar with Alex McFarland. Alex will dig into 1 Peter to help you gain truths to live by and assurance to keep going. Come to The Cove near Asheville, North Carolina, July 8th through 10th for three days of in-depth Bible study, fellowship, and refreshing. Jesus Christ, Hope That Lives, Hope That Lasts for Every Believer, a study of 1 Peter with Alex McFarland.

Find out more and register at thecove.org. In the midst of a culture obsessed with relativism, Alex McFarland is a voice you can trust to speak the timeless truths of Christianity in a timely way. You're listening to Truth for a New Generation Radio.

Welcome back. We're talking with Debbie Chavez. You know, Debbie, before the break we were talking about moral truth, natural law. Whenever I go to Washington and to the Capitol, and it's been my privilege to go there with David Barton and a number of people, Bill Federer, if you know William J. Federer, around the rotunda of the Capitol you see Moses and the Ten Commandments. You go right adjacent to the rotunda is a courtroom. The big doors, they're probably seven feet high.

They're the tablets of the Decalogue, Exodus 20. Well, with Christianity and the Judeo-Christian moral code so ubiquitously all over our nation and our history, how have we lost it? Self-censoring. That's it. And you know, we see this a lot. People are apathetic.

People get busy. They get so wrapped up in their faith, their families, and their faith needs to go outside the walls into every area of society. We see this when you go into all the world and make disciples, teaching them to obey. And that means that we're teaching that good stewardship. We're showing what practical application is. We're showing how the issues of the day have a biblical understanding and a way to go about addressing those.

So many people throw their values at somebody and hope that they stick, not understanding that this is a relationship. We're asking people to have an understanding of where we're coming from, but we're introducing them to the Jesus that we know that makes that real. We all will walk off the face of this earth someday, and I want people to know where I'm going when I walk off that face of this earth.

I want them to go there with me, and I want them to have that opportunity. I'm not responsible for the results. I need to be found faithful, and that's why I engage with other people. What does My Faith Votes do?

Your organization, what is it, how might it be of importance to the listeners? Well, what we noticed is that one in three Christians were not voting. For various reasons, they were just completely disengaged. So we decided to go out there and help them understand what's at stake when a Christian doesn't vote. And we hear all kinds of reasons. Oh, my vote doesn't count. There's not voter integrity. And you can come up with any reason that you want not to vote. But what you need to understand is there is a stewardship factor.

There is no area that we are not to go into. Your vote is where you're casting a vote for those big public decision makers. And I'll tell you, it goes beyond just public policies that are made. All public policies have to be implemented through rules that regulators make. And do you know every regulator is appointed by an elected official? So if you don't want somebody making rules about your life without you having input in it, then you need to vote.

Debbie, let me ask you this. The left has very successfully, I believe, demonized conservatives and Christians. And regardless of what you think about January 6th, I mean, we see this almost every day.

They use that as a billy club to try to say to people, impressionable look, we almost lost our nation that day as the conservatives blitzkrieged the Capitol and the attempted overthrow of America, January 6th, 2021, will never happen again. Look, given the censorship of social media, given the inexorably leftward shift of the media, given the spin, the narrative, do you have any hope that 2022 and 2024, will we have constitutionalists in leadership again? Will the votes be honestly tabulated?

What is your feel? And I know as a Christian, we trust the Lord, we pray, God can do anything. We know that. But I'm just saying as a citizen and as a political figure, Debbie, what are your hopes that we're going to see honest elections and defenders of the Constitution once again sent to Washington? You know, I have great hope in that because I have great hope in the church. What I understand is that when people of God serve the Lord and they show up in the public square, that's where people understand what truth is. They understand what sincerity is. They actually see consistency.

They see security. When we have a city that is run by people who love God and serve God, businesses thrive. Crime goes down. Families are intact. Schools flourish.

Children grow up in an environment where they likely will have a higher education because they're in a man, woman, marriage, family for a lifetime who love each other, who are raising their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. Other situations happen, but it doesn't mean they're absolute best. And I'll tell you something, Alex, I never fight for what's second best. I always fight for what's absolute best.

So I tell every person, don't ever compromise because of what's broken. You go for what is right and good and best for society and you fight with everything that's in you. That means you vote in every election from the school board election to the city council to the county elections, to the state elections, to the federal elections. You show up, you steward your vote in the right way. And we're not going to find a candidate that's going to match everything that we want, but we are going to find one that will either keep us from going backward or move us forward in the right direction. And sometimes that's the way we have to look at those candidates.

But we need to make a decision, we need to steward our vote well, and we need to show up and vote in every election. There's a very famous book, Augustine, 1600 years ago, he wrote City of God. And whenever I have a Christian who says to me, a pastor said to me shortly before the previous election, Debbie, he said, well, Alex, God told me to make people into Christians, not Americans. And so I'm a pastor, I'm not here to make Americans, I'm here to make Christians.

I get that. Augustine said this, and I want your comment. Look, if you're a born again believer, you're headed to the city of God. But until we get there, we have an obligation to the city of man. Hence my opening quote, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Talk about if we invest in the city of man, that doesn't mean we've betrayed the city of God, does it?

It absolutely doesn't. And I'll tell you something that one of my daughters said back the night before the 2008 election. We were sitting in a prayer meeting at a church with a bunch of women. And my daughter started crying uncontrollably, so much so that I looked over and stopped and said, Hey, what's going on? And she said, Mom, all you women are here tonight. You're praying tonight.

Where have you been doing something? You're setting my generation up to die as martyrs for what your generation didn't do. That cut me to the quick. And I realized that we are leaving a heritage to our children. Is it one that's going to be easier for them to walk publicly in their faithfulness?

Or are they going to have to strive hard and hide under things to walk in their faithfulness? I don't want to put that on my children. And I don't want anybody else to. So now what I do is I encourage people to listen. You're leaving a heritage here and let that heritage be so vibrantly faith filled and so openly faith filled that it walks through the streets of your entire town that you are known because you lived your faith publicly in everything.

And you stewarded it so well that you elected leaders that would follow in your footsteps. Debbie Chavez of my faith votes. I appreciate you so much. And folks, I appreciate you listening. We would love to see you at our tapings March 8, 15, and 22. Go to AlexMcFarland.com.

Hey, favor America, be an influence for truth. Thanks for listening, and may God bless you. Call us at 877-YES-GOD-1.

That's 877-YES-GOD and the number 1. Or give online at AlexMcFarland.com. While you're there, listen to program archives, read Alex's blog, invite Alex to speak at your event, or contact Alex with a question or comment. AlexMcFarland.com. Thanks for listening today and join us again next time for more Truth for a New Generation on TNG Radio.