A Conversation with Cameron Jackson

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together. It's reasoned relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know.

You need to know. From Alex McFarland Ministries, this is Truth for a New Generation Radio. And now the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. The Bible says in Psalm 19, The heavens and earth declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, night unto night reveals knowledge. There is no speech nor language where this voice is not heard.

Hi, Alex McFarland here. Welcome to Truth for a New Generation. You know, a lot of people ask me, they'll say, what evidence is there that there's a God? I think there are a lot of evidences.

Not only God, but Jesus, the empty tomb. But just in terms of creation, the world exists, the solar system exists. There are things like language that conveys truth and meaning. There are things like mathematics. I've said that in a world without God, I don't think there would be math. And on today's program, we're going to talk with a math professor, a teacher in high schools, a professor at College of Math.

And I'll introduce him in just a moment, but I want to tell you why I'm doing this, because Psalm 19 says that the creation points to the reality of the Creator. And I agree, and I think one of those evidences is mathematics. Now, anybody who knows me, or if you've known me a long time, you've got to be laughing, because in school, by far, my toughest subject, and I almost did not graduate college because of my struggles with math, math was not my strong suit. And I remember as a teenager, my mom and dad argued with me.

My mother was a public school teacher, 28 years. Son, you've got to buckle down and learn math. And I said, I hate math. I don't like math.

I later came to appreciate math, because I do think mathematics is an expression of the wisdom of our God and a proof of God's existence. Well, I'm on the road, and I'm in Fayetteville, North Carolina, Rockfish Church. Truth for New Generation has a long relationship with Rockfish and Cumberland County. And I meet Mr. Cameron Jackson.

He originally from Hawaii. He's a math teacher. We've been talking about apologetics and math pointing to the reality of God. But we're going to have a conversation. So Cameron, I just want to say thanks for your time. And thanks for helping us get up to speed in our appreciation for math and God. Absolutely, Alex. Thank you for an opportunity to speak with you and on a subject that I enjoy speaking about the most, that I know the most, but most of all, that's the clarity of how, you know, precise God is, as it is in the case of math. Now, you were born in Hawaii, became a Christian at what age?

At the age of 18. I actually found the Lord and, you know, he revealed himself to me and comforted me. And at the time, I was mourning the death of my mother.

She died in a tragic fire accident. I lost my two youngest brother and I did not understand. But he told me that I am here. I will comfort you and I will be here throughout. He is not just there as in buddy companion. He is there to bring me through anything.

That's true. And, you know, I wish you could see, Cameron Jackson, you have such joy. You have a magnetic smile and a joy about you. Yesterday at this conference, and I'm at a Worldview weekend, we're doing it at church, but you and I were talking about our mutual friend Ken Ham. Ken answers in Genesis. We've had Ken on the show many, many times.

He's a dear, dear friend. And let's talk about that, because when you think of Ken Ham, you think of creation. And of course, you think of the existence of God. As a math professor and teacher, what persuades you that there must be a God? The biggest thing is God is right and precise. And if we learn nothing else from the world of math is that it has to be right and it has to be precise. Math, you cannot argue math. There is no debate, although we can discuss the philosophical impact of what math could do. But as he creates the universe, you know, the fact that he plays the sun as the two thirds of this universe, but yet the distance from the sun, we're the third rock, we're the third planet.

There's a reason for that. There's a reason that it is about 90 million miles, and even down to the precise. And there's the reason why we talk about, you know, what people could call speed of light. You know, people often say, well, speed of light, yeah, that's 186,000 miles per second.

No, it is not. We do not know the speed of light, because we cannot. How can you measure something that cannot be measured? Because the fact that there is nothing in this world that is the speed of light, you can only measure as it passes, just like the Lord said to Moses, you cannot see me. I am the light, the truth, but I am the speed of light. You cannot see me.

I can pass by you. And you may see the back. And I know I'm borrowing Jason Lyle's concept of what speed of light is. It brought clarity to me when he said there is no way to measure light in itself.

You have to wait until it comes back. We don't know if it's the, you know, the speed is when the light goes, or when the speed as it slows down, we're measuring it. We know that to be calculated as 186,000 miles per second. But rather, God is so precise and is so right. This is what brought clarity. But most importantly, what brought me to the feet of God is his comforting spirit. So we've got a God that is infinitely powerful, infinitely great. He holds the universe in his hand. He says, you know, all these things that I've shown you from the earth, from the sun, from the Milky Way, and even to the outer expanse, is just simply within the grasp of my hand.

From, you know, we, if I'm showing a sign for my fellow Hawaiian brother, my Shaka sign, that Shaka sign from Thumb, that is how far. But yet, he chooses to be intimately close to us. He chooses to be right within our lives for whatever we need, for whatever he speaks that is clear to us. So I want everyone to understand that, yes, we're going to talk about the precise of math and the fact that God has placed everything within its scope. But know that he has taken all of that and brought it to the clarity of who we are on earth.

You mentioned Jason Lyle. Folks, he's worth reading. A good colleague in the creation ministry. We're going to come right back with more of Truth for a New Generation and the relationship between math and the existence of God.

Don't go away. Join Alex McFarland for Spiritual Awakening in Our Times. Study in the Book of Acts, June 25th through 27th in the Billy Graham Training Center at the Cove near Asheville, North Carolina. Acts records the first days of the early church and tells the story of a powerful spiritual awakening among Jews and Gentiles alike. The Book of Acts also contains personal lessons about revival for believers like us today. In the seminar, Alex will examine God's principles for spiritual renewal and evangelism that work in every age, including ours.

You'll also discover how you could personally walk in the power and joy of the Holy Spirit, regardless of your circumstances. To register for Spiritual Awakening in Our Times, study in the Book of Acts with Alex McFarland, June 25th through 27th. Go to thecove.org.

Seminar packages include options for seminar meals and lodging. Register online at thecove.org. Are you tired of liberal agendas ruining our country, but you don't know what to do about it? That's why Truth and Liberty Coalition was founded. We want to equip you to take back our country and impact the world. Here's how we do it. We educate through broadcasts, conferences, and our website with resources that inform, equip, and motivate. We unify by collaborating with like-minded organizations like the Family Research Council, the Family Policy Alliance, and My Faith Votes. We mobilize by providing practical tools you can use to impact your local community.

As Christians, we are called to make disciples of nations. Together, we can change the course of our country for good. Join Truth and Liberty to connect with believers and organizations who not only want to see a change in our nation, but a community that is actually doing something about it. Join us online for our broadcast, and subscribe for relevant updates on our website, truthandliberty.net. For apologetics resources, books by Alex McFarland, and to find out where Alex is speaking, visit alexmcfarland.com. Welcome back to Truth for a New Generation.

Alex McFarland here. You know, I was not good at math, but I love math, and Cameron Jackson, I was reading a book about the history of math. You know, math history is a fascinating subject in itself, and you know what really amazed me?

I'm reading about like the Egyptians and the Romans and the Indo-Europeans and the Asians and in China and in the Middle East. What really blew my mind and made me believe that math potentially has great apologetics value. You've got these different cultures, independently of the other, that discovered many of the principles of pure mathematics. By the Middle Ages, as you know, there's a lot of interaction by people groups around the world, it was almost like, and by the way, the book I was reading was by an author named Mario Livio, L-I-V-I-O.

He's written a number of books on Pi, not Apple or Blackberry, but 3.14. But he's written on Pi and he's written a book called Is God a Mathematician. In the Middle Ages, when all these people groups are meeting, it was almost like, oh, math works that way for you? Amazing, math works that way for us. And my point being, clearly, math was discovered by man, but math wasn't invented by man. Is that a fair statement?

Absolutely. A good example of that, the scripture tells us that God, the circle of earth, he is above the circle of earth, and just you were speaking about Pi. As you know, Pi doesn't end. As you know that there's a reason why the earth is a circle, because in that dimension and how God created even the preciseness of earth, he leaves just one thing.

He says, no, if you try to figure out how to make the earth, it doesn't end. There's no mathematical calculation of how to actually get, you know, there's a Pi in there. In other words, he, you know, pardon the pun, but he threw, you know, a Pi in our face to say that the foolishness of man would become, you know, the wisdom of God. There was a young student of Trinity, at Trinity, who cracked a square afoot of infinity. But to work with the digits gave him such a fidget, he chucked math and took up divinity.

Now, I didn't necessarily chuck math, but I feel that the Lord has, you know, he has given me an avenue. When I speak to the kids, and it is, you know, and I always, I always say this to my, you know, fellow apologetics and fellow minister, you know, I am a minister cleverly disguised as a math teacher, because the kids does not know what my intent is until the Word of God has been put out. And once they figure it out, then the Word of God does not return void.

It is out there. And in my job, if I can borrow a great coca, it's just simply to put that, that little stone in their shoe, is my job is to get the Word of God. I'm not responsible, as Charles Spurgeon says, of what happens with the Word of God within their hearts.

I'm responsible to disseminate what God has placed upon my heart and what the Word of God says about their lives. It's funny you would say that, that you're a minister cleverly disguised as a math teacher. When I was in high school, I had a chemistry teacher, and every now and then, and this was, you know, some years before I became a born-again Christian, but she would say, teaching chemistry, the good Lord made the world to operate this way. And I'll never forget, my chemistry teacher once did a lecture on how different the world would be if water, when it freezes, contracts.

But oddly enough, water, when it freezes, expands. And she, even though this was public school, she said, God made the world this way. And I'm sure you're familiar with the anthropic principle, that the world is finely tuned to support life.

This is 40 years ago. My high school chemistry teacher basically gave a lecture of about 15 things that are just coincidentally finely tuned to support human life. And she said, this is how God made the world. Now, she didn't give an altar call, but she was a minister cleverly designed as a chemistry teacher. And I will tell you, it made an impact on me.

And then some years later in college, when I accepted Christ, I thought about that. So my point in sharing that is, you're right, Mr. Jackson, God's Word doesn't return void. And the people out there, the believers that sow a seed, businessperson in the classroom, you know, whomever, you have more witnessing potential than you may realize. Am I right?

Absolutely. And again, I quote, you know, that phrase, you are a minister first, if you keep that in the forefront, you become an epistle, you become the Word, you have become the channel. And Isaiah said this, you know, how can the hammer, you are a tool. He says, he says, but as a tool, God is one who's wielding it. How can a hammer brag about how sharp he is, or how powerful he is? Because without the wielder, without the Spirit of the Lord, without the clarity of the Holy Spirit that's running through your vein, you are a vessel.

How can you brag? We, it's the wielder that makes us who we are. We are not sharp, unless he wields it. He, you know, he can use a blunt weapon, he can use a stone. My point is this, yes, we're minister first.

We're cleverly disguised in whatever God chooses us. He happens to choose, you know, my understanding of how, you know, the world of numbers work. I mean, I see numbers as, it makes sense, because it's the truth, you know.

17 times 15 is 17, plus 5, so that's 23, add to 0, and 5 times, 5 times 3 is 35, so 230 plus 35 is 265. I can do that because it makes sense. It makes sense.

Not because I've memorized it, you cannot memorize clarity. The Word of God, most of us, you know, growing up, we memorize it, but when it becomes clear to you, it becomes a wielder. That is the wielding power of the Holy Spirit, and we're just simply tools. Bottom line is, if you're an axe, that's all you do, is you chop down trees. Now, if you're a hammer, you're just a hammer, but each one of us are a tool that God has in his arsenal. I'm thinking of John 15 5, where Christ said, apart from me, you can do nothing. Hey, stay tuned, folks.

Truth for a New Generation with Cameron Jackson and the relationship between math and the existence of God. Don't go away. America today is like a patient struggling to live, yet is being forcibly euthanized by her, quote, doctors. The life force within the patient fighting for survival is the honest citizens like yourself.

The team of, quote, caregivers are the local and national leaders actually contributing to the demise of the patient. The economy is crashing. Crime is exploding. The Constitution is being abolished. The assault on America, how to defend our nation before it's too late by Alex McFarland, has one single purpose, to get you prepared. Learn the real source of America's current problems that no one else is talking about and what you can do now to face tomorrow, regardless of what tomorrow brings.

The assault on America, how to defend our nation before it's too late, available now at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and local Christian bookstores. Welcome to the podcast, I Hear You. We are so excited that you joined us, and this is just going to be a great new podcast dealing with issues around race, issues around friendship, and how do we deal with the tough issues. And I'm so excited to be here with my good friend, Alex.

It's great to be with you, Adel. And on the I Hear You podcast, we talk about race. We talk about culture. We talk about politics. And sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. But we find resolution and common ground. And you know what's really cool? Not only do we learn new things, we make friends, we grow. And that's good for all of us. We're just two friends, one white, one black. And we just invite everyone to come and join and share with us.

It's a big difference between hearing and listening. And we're going to show people. We love it.

We look forward to it. And audience, thank you so much for giving us this chance. I Hear You with Alex and Odell, wherever you get your podcasts. In the midst of a culture obsessed with relativism, Alex McFarland is a voice you can trust to speak the timeless truths of Christianity in a timely way. You're listening to Truth for a New Generation radio. Welcome back to Truth for a New Generation. We continue our very invigorating conversation with Cameron Jackson. I do want to remind everybody that we have an apologetics event.

The first post-COVID TNG event is coming up October 15 through 17. We're going to be at First Baptist Church, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. You know Myrtle Beach.

Plenty of places to stay. Beautiful First Baptist Church, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. We are working in conjunction with Ground Zero, a wonderful ministry down there. Frank Turek, brilliant apologist.

Sandy Rios from the American Family Association. And much, much more. And so go to my website, which is alexmcfarland.com. And we're going to equip you to defend the faith and stand strong for truth. That's Truth for a New Generation Fall 2021.

You don't want to miss it. Well, Cameron Jackson, I appreciate you so much. And I was thinking about this as we were talking in the segment. Isaac Newton and Francis Bacon each said that math is the language of God. And they asked the question, Newton did, is God a mathematician? Speaking to the order and just the specificity, it's not random.

It is very, very precise. And I ask you, is it fair to say that the existence and the operation of math points to the fact that there must be a creator? Absolutely, Alex. Ken Ham. I remember in one of his lecture in Foundation, a young man approached him and he simply was trying to rattle Ken Ham to say, you know, you know, science says everything is just random chance of order.

And Ken Ham right away, he has a comeback. And he just simply says, well, if your thinking is a random chance of order and you are, then you are a random chance of order and the way you think is random chance of order and this whole conversation of random chance of order, there's no logical way of really explaining anything because this is all happening at random chance of order. The point is, it cannot be, as I mentioned before, just like math. In all things that God does, you know, his plan will, you know, from the very beginning, from, you know, the first good news, he says that he will, you know, the enemy will be conquered, as he says in the first good news in Genesis 3.15. Your seed will bruise your head.

Essentially is, he has a plan even from the very beginning. But the biggest argument, and I always point this out even to my kids, you know, even if you go back, if things make sense up to the point of beginning and you said everything is random, how do you explain you violating your own laws, all you atheists out there, of biogenesis? Because biogenesis, the law of biogenesis, simply tells us it cannot be, that nothing can come into something.

That is your own laws. So let me ask you, I mean, clearly, math exists. Where did math come from? God produces logic, and logic produces math.

They have a symbiotic existence. In other words, without logic, math cannot exist. We came up with ideas of numbers. I mean, just a good example, we still, a lot of people still do math from right to left because of al-Khwarizmi. Essentially, he came up with the algebraic expression, which I wish that people would go back, because we read from left to right.

Why not do math from left to right? But again, I know we make sense of things that are logical and put and deduce it to a numeric value of things. But in essence, God is a logical God.

He has a plan from the very beginning, and simply, he translates it as we know it as into numbers, and numbers is explanation of God's logic. Is there a book somebody could read, or for the person that wants to learn more about perhaps the relationship between God and math, and the apologetics value of mathematics, is there any resource you could point us to? I would say anything by Jason Lyle, because he does explore even from foundational. He has a couple of books on the pattern of conceptual math. Anything by Jason Lyle, just reading him, there are so many things that you can get clarity on.

One last thing. There's ministry to be done in the classroom. I know when you think of ministry, you think of a preacher and a pulpit or a missionary, praise God. But in the sciences, in academics, certainly in math, there's a Christian witness to be brought into the classroom, am I right?

Absolutely. Even if you find yourself, as I have, in a Christian school, because I did not, you know, when I first enter into the teaching ministry, God led me to this one Christian school, but I didn't understand why. I said, Lord, these are Christians. Until I took a survey, how many of you are currently going to church? Half. How many of you have a personal relationship?

Less than half. The last school, which is, and I'm going to give a shout out to my kids at Liberty Christian, still proud of you guys, because they had a recent revival in which, I believe 19 of you have accepted the Lord. And I'd like to think that Mr. Jackson, you know, when we were together, kind of brought some clarity, because I know you guys had a lot of questions. I was teaching you math, as well as science. I taught the chemistry class. So, you ministers out there who happen to be in the classroom, you know, don't speculate, don't try to undermine what God's position that he has placed you in, because even in this previous school here, I found out that the kids, only 10% of them essentially have a personal relationship. So, I'm working on you guys. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

But most of all, for those of you who are in the classroom, find out. Get clarity through the Word of God. He will provide you the words to say, but don't speculate on why God placed you there, but rather just be obedience.

God desire obedience, not sacrifice. Wonderful. Well, I want to thank you for listening to Truth for a New Generation. I want to thank Cameron Jackson for not only being a guest on the show today, but using your intellect and your heart for the service of the Lord. Folks, Psalm 19 says, the heavens and earth, creation, bears witness to the undeniable reality of the Creator.

And I think math is a powerful, compelling part of that. For more information, go to our website, AlexMcFarland.com. God bless you folks. Keep your eyes on Christ and take a bold stand for truth.

Yes, God won. That's 877-YES-GOD and the number one. Or give online at AlexMcFarland.com. While you're there, listen to program archives, read Alex's blog, invite Alex to speak at your event, or contact Alex with a question or comment. AlexMcFarland.com. Thanks for listening today and join us again next time as we bring you more truth for a new generation on TNG radio.