12/1/19 - Interview with Darrell Orman

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together.

It's reasoned, relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know. From Alex McFarland Ministries, this is Truth for a New Generation Radio. And now the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. The Word of God tells the church to be salt and light in this world, and Jesus said, Behold I send you forth as sheep among wolves. And Jesus gave us an assignment that we're to speak truth to the world, and are we to love people?

Of course, we are to speak the truth and we're to speak it in love, but part of the message and the mission of the church is to tell people maybe not what they always want to hear, but because of eternity and because of the state of a lost soul, we are to tell people what they need to hear. Hi, Alex McFarland here on Truth for a New Generation Radio, and I'm so excited about a person I want you to meet, because you know, in the course of ministry, you meet a lot of individuals, and as might be expected, some make more of an impression than others. And one of the people for whom I've just got a great appreciation is this friend that I want you to meet.

His name is Dr. Darrell Orman. He is the pastor at First Baptist Church of Stuart, Florida. And Pastor Darrell, one thing about you, you've got a great heart, you love your people, you love the Word of God, but I appreciate this about you as pastor of First Baptist. You're not afraid to speak out about issues, political issues, cultural social issues, and so I wanted to get your voice on the show and just maybe hear from you, how God brought you to where you are, and why you feel like Christians, and especially ministers should courageously speak out about the issues of the day. So for one thing, welcome to TNG Radio. Thank you, Alex. Good to be with you. What is your assessment of the American pulpit right now?

I'm disappointed. One of the most worn out clichés is there's two things you don't talk about, religion and politics. They're the two most important things in our life. They cover everything from our now to our future, and really, they're absolutely essential.

They're the things we should always be talking about. And of course, the history of our nation, when you go back to the founding fathers and the clergymen that were served with them, in fact, several of them that wrote our Constitution were clergymen, and back then they referred to what's been called now the black robe pastors, where these pastors would wear their clerical robes and then when they were through preaching, they would take their robes off and they had on their army uniforms underneath, and they would lead their men, their deacons, their elders, their whatever, Sunday school teachers, whatever they had, and they would go to defend the country. And we've gone so far from that now, and I'm afraid that many of my brothers have sold out just for a large crowd and a large budget, and they've gotten to the point where they're handcuffed.

Darrell Bock They live in what I call a velvet cage. Reg Grant That's right, and there's issues they can't speak on any longer, and they can't proclaim the whole counsel of God because they can't afford to drive their crowd away and then disenfranchise the leadership of the church and ultimately maybe lose their positions. Darrell Bock I fear in America, you know, we're to the point, a covered dish supper and a prayer meeting is not going to do it. I mean we need a serious return to the Lord Jesus, and are we at a point we're putting Band-Aids on a chest wound?

Reg Grant Yes, absolutely. Some dear ministry friends attend one of the multi-site mega churches in the area and sermons are preached, you know, brought in through video feed on Sundays, and the main pastor was in the area, and they had the opportunity to meet him and interview him, and they were talking to him, and they said, you know, we've been attending your church for nine months. We've never heard anything that remotely was a reference to hell or judgment or anything like that. Darrell Bock Or sin, repentance. Reg Grant And so, well, I don't know about the sin and repentance but the hell and judgment, and his response was there's so many good things in Scripture to speak on, you'll never hear me speak on that. Well, the Lord Jesus, the God of glory, incarnation, for every one time he spoke of heaven, twice he warned of hell. And if it's good enough for the Lord Jesus, it's good enough for us, and that's one of the reasons why we've lost the culture is the judgment side, the judicial wrath side of God has been completely denigrated and neglected in modern liberalism.

God is only loving, he's George Burns, he's a little old, doddering man that wants to be your friend, you know, and that's unfortunate. Reg Grant Well, and I think, too, at this hour in our nation's history, all the pulpits should ring out with a clarion call that people be engaged, informed, prayerful, and vote. But the big-box, mega-church, smoke-machined subwoofers, to your knowledge, how much do they speak about politics or political involvement? Dr. Darrell Bock Well, I mean, I was at a pastors' conference for each small area of pastors' conference, and the main speaking pastor got up and said, �We need to be careful about the tone of our churches.

We shouldn't use the � God didn't create Adam and Steve, but Adam and Eve illustrations anymore because � or anything like that, those kind of references, because we're going to offend either homosexual members or people struggling with their identity. I'm a sympathetic sinner. If I were God, I'd let everybody into heaven.

But I'm not, and thank God I'm not, because if the unrepentant went, then they'd turn heaven into Chicago.� You know, so his view of us and our view of him are two completely different things, and the only opinion or conviction that matters is his view, not ours. Dr. Darrell Bock You're listening to Truth For A New Generation Radio. My dear friend, Dr. Darrell Orman, stay tuned, because when we come back, we're going to talk about some practical ways that you can obey the Lord's mandate to be salt and light and, yes, speak to the issues, but you can do it in love and effectively and not lose your job or your members.

Stay tuned to TNG Radio after this. From I Am A Watchman Ministries, here's today's I Am A Watchman Minute. Showing support for Israel is not popular today, but what does the Bible say? Should Christians and nations support Israel?

The answer is yes. Genesis 12 3 notes that God will bless those who bless Israel. Verse 24, verse 9, notes that God has pledged to protect Israel.

Zechariah 12, verses 2 and 3, notes that God will move against those who rise up against Israel. And in Psalm 122, verse 6, we read that God will prosper those who support Israel. Pray for Israel. Pray that leaders and government will support Israel. For as it's been said, the friend of Israel is the friend of God.

Visit IAmAWatchman.com for resources profiling what God will do for and through Israel in the days to come. Be bold. Be faithful.

Be a watchman. IAmAWatchman.com If you're a Christian parent, you of course want to instill a biblical view of life in the hearts of your children. If you're a pastor, you want to offer ministry that draws young families to your church. This is Alex McFarland encouraging you to check out my new book and video curriculum, The 21 Toughest Questions Your Kids Will Ask About Christianity. Why do bad things happen? I interviewed hundreds of children, ages 5 to 12, and we address actual questions from actual children, the spiritual issues that are on the minds of your kids.

Did Jesus ever sin? The book and video lessons are great for groups of any size and was produced with the goal of equipping kids to stand strong for Christ in any situation. The 21 Toughest Questions Your Kids Will Ask, the book, study guide, and video series, you'll find it at AFASTORE.net, that's AFASTORE.net. We care about justice and aren't afraid to ask hard questions. In fact, we care about a lot of things. We have passion for truth. We are engagemagazine.net, an online group of millennials brought together by a common goal to share truth, apply scripture, and to get involved in our lost and hurting world. Engagemagazine.net hosts discussions that help you apply a biblical worldview to your daily life.

Engagemagazine.net. You don't need to have a Bible degree from Liberty University to love, serve, pray, worship, or obey God, but it can make life more vibrant when you do. When you're ready for a religious studies degree, you'll find more than 60 ministry degree options from a bachelor's to a doctorate of ministry, and you'll pay one low block rate for divinity courses at Liberty University, where we train champions for Christ. Go to Liberty.edu backslash explore to learn more.

That's Liberty.edu backslash explore to learn more. For apologetics resources, books by Alex McFarland, and to find out where Alex is speaking, visit alexmcfarland.com. Welcome back to TNG Radio.

Alex McFarland here. You know, one of my books, Ten Issues That Divide Christians, is a good book to get you up to speed on a biblical worldview as it relates to political issues. I go over things like American exceptionalism, moral absolutes, immigration, the environment, pornography, the military, gun ownership, just war. Can Christians serve in the military?

And many things like that. So I would encourage you, you can go to my website, which is alexmcfarland.com, or of course you can find them online, and as always, we encourage you, when you're able, to support your local Christian bookstore. But my book, Ten Issues That Divide Christians, published by Bethany House Baker. And if you feel led to support our ministry, you know, we just, we do publishing events, broadcasting, we're in front of a couple of hundred thousand young people a year.

For your gift of at least $25, I will send you the book, Ten Issues That Divide Christians, and thank you for helping us evangelize the lost and equip the saved. Well, Dr. Darrell Orman, by the way, give the church's website. People come to Florida, First Baptist Church of Stewart, Florida, it's right near West Palm Beach. Phenomenal people, phenomenal church, and for anyone that wants to get in touch with you or find the church, how can they do that? fecstewart.org. F-B-C, First Baptist Church.

stewart.org. That's great. Hey, I've got to ask you this. Who influenced you? Who shaped your worldview and the minister that you've become? I've been discipled by Adrian Rogers, Jerry Falwell, and D. James Kennedy. And Adrian Rogers led you to Christ.

Adrian Rogers led me to Christ. I played basketball in college and have an associate's degree in business, was going to become a lawyer, then I was converted, and the Lord gave me rebirth, and from there I went to Liberty, and so Falwell was influential for my bachelor's degree through my master's degree, and then I went back and received my doctorate there. And when I was at Liberty University and we'd go out into the neighborhoods and the city and share Christ, it was pretty much pucker up or duck. You were either loved or hated based on the idea of being associated with Liberty University and Jerry Falwell.

I remember that, too. Some people would say, oh, you go to Liberty University, which is wonderful, I love Liberty, proud to be a twice graduate of Liberty. And then others would – Jerry's kids. They would say, oh, you go to Jerry Falwell's college, and you knew if they said it that way, that they probably weren't a fan. That's right.

That's exactly right. Well, I've got to ask, what do you think Dr. Falwell would say? And for those who don't know, he really was one of the giants of American Christianity. I absolutely put Dr. Falwell in the same vernacular as D.L. Moody, Billy Graham, Jonathan Edwards.

I would, too. Because he was – well, he started the Liberty Godparent Homes. He was a pastor. He was a theologian. By the way, did you know Dr. Falwell had the Book of Romans committed to memory verbatim?

I did not know that. And he would recite the book – 16 chapters of the Book of Romans. But educator, pastor, evangelist, social reformer, Falwell was, in many ways, just an amazing multifaceted champion for Christ.

What would he say about the America of 2019, Dr. Orman? Well, I had the opportunity to interact with him personally. I had a couple of meals with him, and he witnessed to the waitresses. He shared Christ. And the same things with D. James Kennedy from Coral Ridge Presbyterian and Evangelism Explosion. And I had one meal with him at a restaurant across from Coral Ridge, and he shared Christ with the waitress. I had the opportunity to interact with him when I was an officer for one of our Southern Baptist Convention pastors' conferences.

And it was the year that Bill Clinton first got elected. And so he already saw some of the trends that we're seeing in full fruition now, back in that day. And so I heard some of his personal responses. So I know how he felt about it and how he would feel about it.

And he would be active like he always was – moral majority, being denigrated, vilified. He just embraced it. I mean, he wouldn't – he said, I know I'm going to be confronting this culture.

And he prepared for it. Also D. James Kennedy, I had the opportunity to interact with him personally a few times. And he and I spoke at a small conference years ago in Fort Lauderdale.

And it was interesting talking to him. He said one of the comments, they say that you can't legislate morality, and this is one of the big dogmas. You can't legislate morality.

And his response, and it was classic and I loved it, he said, well, pray tell, what do you legislate? All legislation is either morality, amorality, or immorality. Scott Cunningham If you would make a distinction between morals and religion, because when we talk about morality, marriages between a man and a woman, heterosexual monogamy is the basis of society and family.

And the left would say, oh, but you're imposing your religion on me. Pastor, what is the difference between morality and religion? Darrell Bock Well, as you've discussed here with us and as we've looked at, and I've shared for years, in the Book of Romans, you have two foundational principles. First, there's creation, the witness of creation, where God says that, �For the invisible things of him are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal Godhead in power, so that they're without excuse.� And then you have conscience rolling up, chapters 2 and 3, where he says, �Those who are without the law are alone to themselves, for their hearts either excuse them or commend them based on their behavior.� So throughout the earth, you've got this moral, ingrained code that is everywhere. And sometimes there's some hybridization of it. Don Richardson talks about in Peace Child, and the treachery of the Indians there, and how their highest value was treachery, and then when he finally translated the Scriptures for them, when they heard about Judas Iscariot, they thought at first he was the savior of the book.

They were thrilled with his betrayal of Jesus, and he thought, �How am I going to win these people to Christ when they've got this hybridization of the natural moral code?� And he was able to do that when he saw the illustration of the Peace Child. Yeah. You're listening to Truth For A New Generation radio. My dear friend, Dr. Darrell Orman. Stay tuned. What we're going to do is back after this. Thank you.

Thank you. First Peter 3.15 tells us to be ready always to give an answer for the hope we have. We're instructed to be prepared to defend our faith. This is Alex McFarland for the Life Answers teams, students we train at North Greenville University, a leading Christian college in South Carolina. The Life Answers teams are made up of students who will inspire and equip your congregation. These apologetics teams we train speak in churches to youth groups and train Christians of all ages to address key issues of our times from a biblical perspective, like is there a God?

Is the Bible true? What about gender and moral issues? Call me at 864-977-2008, and we will arrange for the Life Answers team to come to your church and give a presentation that will benefit your people for years to come, 864-977-2008, and always be ready. In the midst of a culture obsessed with relativism, Alex McFarland is a voice you can trust to speak the timeless truths of Christianity in a timely way. You're listening to Truth For A New Generation Radio.

Welcome back to TNG Radio. I love those promises of Christ about the church and his preservation of the church. You know, it's interesting that the seven churches of Asia Minor in the book of Revelation, as far as we know, no longer exist.

They were literal historic churches, but they're not around now. And while God has promised the preservation of the church, Matthew 16, 18, he's not promised the preservation of any one single local church. That's why each of us really have the calling and the obligation to be a part of a church and do our best to help preserve that church and grow that church, and somebody who's given their life to doing that, and God has used him wonderfully and is using him at First Baptist, Stuart, Florida, my dear friend, Dr. Darrell Orman. Darrell, in the time we've got left, let's talk about the church. We hear a lot about church growth and evangelism. Let's talk about church health in America. From the time you went into the ministry to where we are now, what's different? What's different from the church of 2019 to the church when you first went into the ministry? Dr. Darrell Bock Well, definitely the proliferation of multi-site churches has occurred in the last couple of decades, two or three decades. Has that necessarily been a good thing?

Dr. Darrell Bock It's got pros and cons to it. There's been articles written like Mac Church with the idea of franchising, and the goal of McDonald's is for people to walk into one anywhere in the country and the restaurant looked the same, the menu's the same, the food tastes the same, that sort of thing. So I think that's one of the aspects for a multi-site church in a region is they can tell everybody, whichever one you go to, you're going to experience what we do. That can be good and that can be bad. Does it exclude the creativity of the Spirit of God? There's also an accountability issue.

The problem with a multi-site church, especially if the extra sites don't have their own autonomous leadership, which most don't, then if there's a moral failure for the main speaking, teaching, personality pastor, then instead of it being a local or just an area-wide effect, negative effect, it's a regional effect on the body of Christ. And so there's definitely a difficulty there. You and I were talking during lunch today about G. Campbell Morgan's interpretation of the mustard seed.

Yeah, talk about that if you would. Yeah, he basically took the parable of the mustard seed where Jesus said that a mustard seed's one of the smallest of seeds or basically says the smallest seed and it grows up into a tree and then the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches. And it's interesting, his interpretation, which seems sound, a mustard seed is actually an herb and it's not intended by God to grow into a tree.

It's intended to be a small, herbal plant. And so the analogy that he brought is in the Kingdom of Heaven when these structures grow abnormally large, then they become a habitation for birds. And then birds in Jesus' parables oftentimes are a symbol of demonic activity with the seed and the sowers. Birds in Scripture generally have a negative connotation.

That's right. Well, in parables, especially with the seed and the sowers, the birds come and eat the Word of God. They come and devour the seeds, which he said is the Word of God. And so his teaching or his analogy is that when churches become abnormally large, then there's room for heinous types of sins, behaviors, activities. And it's true, one of the Reformed brethren among us are critical of the megachurch movement and the larger churches by saying that they've virtually abolished church discipline. And how many people go into a megachurch or a super large church have ever seen anyone come up and openly repent in front of the congregation over their sins? Like never?

Virtually never. Yeah. And part of that is not wanting to drive off anybody, not wanting to hurt the crowd. And so there's definitely – there's some merit to that criticism from our Reformed brethren. And you know, with corporations, whether it's a franchise of a restaurant and it's a nationally known brand or a retail store, the company becomes like a person. And the guarding of the brand position, the market position, becomes very paramount. And so you're not going to do anything to alienate your customer base if your goal is to protect the brand. But our calling is not to protect the brand of our church logo.

Our calling is to proclaim the life-changing message of our Lord and Savior. That's right. And it is, as the Bible says, it's a rock of stumbling and an offense to some people. That's just part of the territory, isn't it?

It is. And at one point in Jesus' ministry, he got down to his core 12, and he said, are you going to leave me too? And they said, to whom else can we go who has the words of life?

Yes. I love that answer Peter said, Lord, where else would we go? And listeners, that's our message to you. Jesus is the Savior, and if Christ wasn't the Savior, as Peter Krafft says up in Boston, brilliant one of America's great philosophers and a believer, he said, look, if Jesus wasn't the man, then God is unknowable, because nobody else but Jesus fulfilled prophecies, did miracles, rose from the dead. Either it's Jesus or history is incomprehensible, man has no hope, because nobody else comes close to being that living representation of God to a lost world. Folks, we've been talking with Dr. Darrell Orman of First Baptist, Stuart, Florida.

Let us encourage you. For one thing, Jesus is as close by as a prayer, and the Bible says that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. That's Romans 10, 13. Maybe God's call to you today is to be saved and to know that you're saved. We've got a little booklet that we would love to send you free of charge that says, what does God say about my relationship with Him? This little booklet that we've given to over a quarter million people, we'll send one to you, and it tells how to know that you're saved, to know that you're born again. You don't have to leave this world merely hoping, but you can know, and then some other things about how to be a witness, how to share the gospel, how to grow in your faith. And so we thank you for listening. Come to Christ, or maybe come back to Christ, but tell people about Christ, and we'll see you next time on Truth For A New Generation Radio.

TNG radio is made possible by the friends of Alex McFarland Ministries, P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404. That's P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404. Call us at 877-YesGod1. That's 877-YesGod1. Or give online at alexmcfarland.com. While you're there, listen to program archives, read Alex's blog, invite Alex to speak at your event, or contact Alex with a question or comment, alexmcfarland.com. Thanks for listening today, and join us again next time as we bring you more truth for a new generation on TNG radio.