The Spiritual Condition of America, Politics, Culture, and Current Events Analyzed Through the Lens of Scripture. Welcome to the Alex McFarland Show. How do you forgive when you've been hurt? How do you extend the olive branch when maybe you're the one in the right? Hi, Alex McFarland here.
We're at NRB. If you hear ambient noise in the background, it's because we're on the floor of the largest annual convention of Christian communicators in the world. And we are always blessed because we get to visit with dear, dear friends in the family of God. And one of those is with me now, June Hunt, who I have just come to love like family. She is so prolific in her writing.
She's really a Christian broadcasting legend. And June, I want to thank you for making time to be with us. You are so gracious with your time. And for those that may be unaware, before you and I talk about forgiveness and one of your most recent books, tell people about this conference. You're on the board of NRB, National Religious Broadcasters, as am I.
But how would you describe this for the listener who wonders what all it is we do at NRB? When you think of family, you think of people that you know and that there is like understanding and similar experiences.
Well, that's what this is. It helps us to know each other. And it makes it so people aren't just remote. Just like when I first met you, I just liked you. And I mean, you and I both played guitar and we kind of had a bond after that.
Through music. Yeah, and so this is where you have an opportunity. There are several thousand people here, but you meet people and you can learn from each other. Yes. You know what excites me about NRB?
I'm meeting with people that are broadcasting the gospel in the Arabic world. I'm meeting with people that are broadcasting the gospel throughout Ireland and throughout the UK and Britain. And God is at work. I'm telling you. And folks, let me just say this.
People are coming to Christ in China. People are coming to Christ in places like North and South Korea. Yes. And so, June, the Lord is on the move. I think here in America, we hear bad news and, you know, there's Churches closing.
But folks, be assured: Jesus Christ is King of kings. Jesus Christ is winning souls to salvation, and the Lord is at work in this 21st century, isn't He? Yes, and I was surprised early on, a number of years ago, when people would from other countries, they would look at our material, and first it was Russia and Ukraine and Romania, and they would ask for our material. They wanted to translate it. And then, so we're in 36 languages, not because of me, but it's the material.
They said, we are given... Doctrine in all these languages, but we are not told how to live our lives according. To the doctrine. In other words, what do we do with all these problems?
So, areas of abuse, domestic violence, childhood sexual abuse. We have materials on that, on forgiveness, on all kinds of things, on 108 topics.
So, the bottom line is what we do at our ministry called Hope for the Heart from the beginning. Which in the beginning was literally 40 years ago when we first began in 1986. A lot of people listening weren't even born then, but the point is. I said, no, I don't want to do radio. And they said, but if you were to be heard here, I was spoken on Is your Isaac on the altar.
And this man, these four men said, but what if you were heard here, here, here, here, here, here, all these other places? God, you can't be there physically. What if you were heard? And I thought, oh. Oh, I hadn't thought of it that way because I didn't want to be.
I'm opposed to being a star, I don't like that. Image and so, and a lot of people will say, Oh, here's a star, and I go, No, no, no, no. But the bottom line is, people want to know what to do. when they face tremendous adversity or painful things in their lives. Or, you know, what if they have anger, depression, and we shouldn't let go down all the emotions.
So we they want answers of what to do. And we're a what to do ministry. We present biblical hope and practical help. You know, uh my wife and I were counseling with a couple over the weekend and their college-age daughter has been on several mission trips and she's on fire for the Lord and she feels like she wants to be a career missionary. Wow.
Which you don't hear that so much anymore. But the mother and dad who love the Lord They were Very frightened by this prospect. And I said, into the life of every Christian, there's an Isaac that must be put on the altar. Excellent. For those that may not know that biblical allusion, talk about that.
Abraham and Isaac. And I really think our future Christian growth depends on being willing to trust God with our Isaac. Am I right? what you're talking about is An amazing story. By the way, I know a man who said, I can't believe that story.
I totally reject the Bible because of the story. But he was not a Christian at all, and his son had just died. But the bottom line is this. Here is this godly man Abram, Abraham, and he literally is told by God, take your And this was a prayed for son. Prayed for God, please, you know.
So, here is this son, and take him. He's a young man now. Take him and literally sacrifice his life. Meaning you are too So he knows he's supposed to take the life of his son. And what's interesting about that story is you see, early the next morning, he rises and goes.
It's not like waiting a lot of days. God, I want to bargain with you about this, because he was beloved. The bottom line is he travels and goes where he is told by God to go. and has the preparation all ready. And Amazingly, there was Uh the preparation of the sun on the altar of sacrifice.
And he's ready to Thrust the knife into his son out of obedience to God. and an angel of the Lord. where we could say Jesus literally stopped him. and literally provided a ram in the thicket. You know, I love the wording there.
It says, God will provide Himself. And Jehovah Jireh mean God. the God who provides. Amen. He provides for us.
when we don't see a way out. And on that the mountains of Moriah there was a thorn-crowned lamb. Centuries later, June, there would be another thorn crowned lamb. On Golgotha. And that would be Jesus himself.
Isn't that amazing? Yes. In fact, it was. It was John the Baptist, his cousin, who first sees Jesus and goes, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. I mean he so John the Baptist is given the insight by the Lord.
This is the promised Messiah. June, I was a college student when I became a Christian at 21. And I was an English major and had read my share of literature. And so I started reading the Bible in earnest. I'm a brand new baby Christian at that point.
And I remember one night I said, Shakespeare wishes he could have written stories like this. And OPS, this story is true, the Bible. We've got to take a brief break. We're going to come back from NRB, June Hunt, hopefortheheart.org, spelled just like it sounds, hopefortheheart.org. She's a prolific author and broadcaster, an amazing woman of God.
She's our guest when we return after this. Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland, a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. Do you know prayer is the nerve that moves the muscle of God? Hi, Alex McFarland here, encouraging you to download our free PDF of 31 Days of Prayer for Our Nation.
Discover how consistent prayer can transform your heart and our nation. These are times of uncertainty, people need hope, and specific prayers get specific answers.
So go to alexmacfarland.com and download the free PDF of prayer, and I challenge you to make this next 31 days a time of powerful prayer. He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely. Welcome back to the Alex McFarlane Show. Welcome back to the program. Alex McFarland here, along with a longtime friend and colleague, June Hunt.
June, one of your most recent books, Forgiveness: Releasing You is Freeing Me. You know, I think about. how God so loved the world To make our forgiveness possible through His Son Jesus. But human to human, why is it so hard sometimes for people to forgive? That's a great question, and I think we need to understand.
In fact, I'll just say the first time I ever taught on this topic, I said, what do you think? Forgiveness means. And the first response was It means being a doormat. Mm.
Well, if it were being a doormat, then Jesus would have been the biggest doormat in the world because he said, he prayed from the cross, Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. The second response was, it means being a weak martyr.
Well, no, it's being strong enough to be Christ-like. It's not weakness. And my objection on a personal level, this was the hardest thing for me. I'm math, I'm logical, rational. and uh I had become a Christian.
As a teenager, didn't have any exposure to the Bible, didn't know anything about. the word of God. And then I had a father after I became a Christian, well all of My dad had three families going on concurrently, so it was a messy, terrible thing. that I grew up with and I couldn't, I didn't talk. I didn't tell people because I couldn't explain my existence.
And dad was cruel.
So when I was 12, we moved into his house. 11 months later, my parents married. But then I'm 15 and for the first time being exposed to authentic Christianity and then I'm learning something and my life started changing. in everything but this one area. And it was a number of years later.
That I didn't know what to do with the concept of forgiveness because I thought, how could it be right? You're just letting somebody off the hook. That was my mindset. And they don't have to change. There's no.
requirement for Apology or change in that person's life.
So I could not understand it, Alex. It was really hard. I didn't tell anybody. I just didn't know what to do with the scriptures. Like There's Colossians 3:13.
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievance you have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. Yes. I thought. How could that be right?
So I just had to take those forgiveness passages and just kind of put them over there.
Now I'm a youth director, first a junior high director, over 600 kids, and then I'm a college and career director. But I still didn't know what to do about the forgiveness. One of the biggest churches in the USA, by the way. Yeah, yeah. And it was biblical.
See, I wasn't exposed to the Bible, and so it was stunning that I even had the privilege of doing this. But the bottom line is. I didn't Have any understanding about forgiveness because how could it be that? You just let people off the hook. And then later.
I learned.
Well, I'll tell you what really happened. My mother... had just been cut down by my dad. Just you know, just how he could treat her that way when she's kind. tender, sweet.
Everybody had a tender heart toward her. And I went to her and I said, How could you be so kind to him? You heard what he said, and she said, Oh, honey.
Now, this changed my life. Oh, honey, he doesn't know the Lord. If he only knew the Lord, he wouldn't be that way. I thought, oh, she's not focusing on his fault, she's focusing on his need. His need is to have a changed life through Christ.
And I was stunned. And so then I A man asked me a question 'cause he knew I had difficulty with forgiveness. And um He said, June, what percentage wrong do you think your father has been and what percentage do you think you are wrong? What a question. I never thought of that.
I've been in the right, thank you very much.
Well, I mean, isn't that our attitude? I answered 90, that is 98% wrong, and I would be 92% wrong. I mean, I would be 2% wrong. But I can't, I didn't even know what the 2% would be because I always tried to mitigate and do everything in the family that to try to help the family exist. And finally, I prayed.
I said, God, I had told The leaders and the youth the most difficult thing for a parent is an ungrateful child. And I thought. Where have I been ungrateful? And so I Finally went to Dad, I said, Dad, I want you to know it dawned on me I've been an ungrateful daughter. I haven't Thanked you for a Roof over the head, or food on the table, or books for school.
Would you be willing to forgive me? And he was so surprised He was had been reading a newspaper. He just kept looking at me, and finally he said something totally uncharacteristic. He said, the pleasure was all mine, and he went right back to the newspaper. I thought, you mean there's no discussion, no, nothing?
But I know I did what was right. And I needed to ask forgiveness for where I had been wrong. And then what occurred? He used to blame me for everything. My two sisters said, June.
You know, dad always blamed you for everything. Everything was your fault. And I knew I would be unjustly accused, but you know, that's just, you grow up, and that's the way it is. And so, um, didn't but I did notice dad's Was not blaming me for everything. His demeanor changed.
It did change, and that was a big surprise. And I will say, actually, at the uh end of his life, He was 86 years old. And I had tried to present Jesus as Lord and Savior when I was 25 years old. And then I had been speaking in Florida. And so I came back on his birthday.
He was already in bed. It was a Sunday and I said, Dead. And he always wanted me to sing.
So I he always wanted me to sing, Oh, Danny Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling. He loved Danny Boy. One of the greatest songs ever. Yeah, by the way.
So I sang Danny Boy, and then I thought, let me try again. And so I presented the Plan of Salvation. And at the end... I said Would you be willing to humble your heart and pray to receive Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior? And to my shock, he said yes.
And um So I led him in that prayer and So I went to my mother. I said, Mom, I need to tell you something. I just don't know that it's real. I ju you know, I I mean, I did not have the faith as big as a mustard seed. I think we've all been there.
But she said, June, If he prayed that prayer with you, it will be the first time. Many people have tried. To present Jesus as Lord and Savior, but your father would never, Billy Graham tried. He would not. And so, and then she said to me, There was a man on Wednesday.
who started to present Jesus and all of a sudden He cut that man off and said Yeah. You know, you're not going to talk with me about that. If anybody's going to talk with me, it'll be my daughter, June. And I thought, what? Goodness.
I mean, and so, so. I finally did believe that he really did do this. To pray to receive Jesus.
So, what I say is, don't give up.
Well, and the thing I think about, June, is that your willingness to forgive. and to build a bridge. Resulted in great, great fruit. In this case, your father becoming a believer. And everybody listening: look, we all get hurt in life.
And you know, I I've gotta say, and I I don't minimize hurt. I mean, it's real when people hurt each other, but when we hang on to that unforgiveness, it's rather selfish, isn't it? And when we yield and we do like Jesus would do and we forgive, it really unleashes the blessings of God, doesn't it? It is amazing what What we assume is that it's like if I let him off the hook. Then I feel irresponsible.
Instead, we take that person off of our emotional hook and put that person onto God's hook because God is the one who says, It's mine to avenge, I will repay.
So they don't get away. with it. They don't get off the hook, you just let them go onto God's hook. And not Have him on your hook. We've got to take a break.
We're talking with June Hunt, longtime friend and colleague. She leads Hope for the Heart. The website is hopefortheheart.org. This incredible book, Forgiveness Releasing You, is Freeing Me. More after this break.
June Hunt, you are such a blessing and such an example. And we thank God for you. Folks, stay tuned. We're back after this. Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland, a religion and culture expert.
Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. Would you invest a financial contribution to see young people saved, people give their lives to Christ, and people care about God and country? If you would please make a donation securely online, you can give at alexmacfarland.com or please mail a check to TNG PO Box 485 Pleasant Garden, North Carolina, 27313. Your gift will be faithfully handled, fruitfully used, and we thank you in Jesus' name. Uh He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely.
Welcome back to the Alex McFarlane Show. Well, to conclude, you know, we've been talking about forgiveness, and June Hunt is just one of the most trusted voices on the radio and in print. Forgiveness, releasing you is freeing me. And, June, in the previous segment, what a beautiful story of how God used you to bring your father to faith in Christ. And before your father's heart was won, God did a work in your heart, and it's just magnificent.
And by the way, I need to tell you. I was saved at a youth camp. It made all the difference in the world. Yes. So I needed to hear Truth to set me free.
Indeed.
Well, you know, and I give God the praise. Last summer, we saw hundreds of young people come to Christ, and it's very powerful to get them out of their normal routine. Yes. And there's maybe for the first time watching a sunrise over a mountaintop. And God speaks to these young people, and the gospel is still changing lives.
Absolutely. Amen. You know, No doubt there are people listening and Let me just give some of the objections that I've heard in the ministry. They'll say, but if I forgive, I guess the wounds and the pain that I've felt don't even count. Or it's just maybe saying what they did so many years ago was okay.
Would you speak to the person listening? That has some legitimate hurts, and the idea of forgiveness seems just kind of a. contrary to human nature, which it is. But it doesn't mean we're just ignoring. that a wrong may may have been done, but forgiveness Well, I put it this way and I'll throw it to you.
I've seen unforgiveness destroy marriages. I've seen unforgiveness split churches. I've seen Satan use unforgiveness to his advantage. And that's very sad, isn't it?
Some people think that forgiveness is the equivalent of excusing sin. It doesn't matter. the pain that you've caused. That is not right. Uh saying what was once wrong is now right.
That is not logical, so that isn't true. It's not what we're saying. No. And therefore, note and notice. When Jesus forgave, A woman in adultery.
He said, Go and sin no more.
So it's not like there is no consequence. Jesus is clear. We don't continue Sin continue. as far as we are concerned.
So it's imperative that we evaluate what is our rationale for not forgiving. I wrote a book called How to forgive when you don't feel like it. And it sold a hundred and some odd thousand copies.
Now, the bottom line is. there was a man who wrote me a letter. And he said, I am a Anyway, he evaluates books. A book reviewer? Yeah, thank you.
That's it. And so I didn't know that there were books that were reviewed. And so he said, I didn't have that. much faith in this book. Or confidence, or some word like that.
And he said, but it changed my life. And I'm reading this, and he said, I thought, see, this was his reason, I thought forgiveness meant you have to reconcile. You have to reconcile with the person who Did you wrong? And He said it was very clear. You made the point, forgiveness is not.
reconciliation It doesn't require reconciliation. And so this was my rationale in the book. Forgiveness can take place with only one person. reconciliation requires two people. meaning Forgiveness is a decision to release the offender.
Reconciliation is the effort to rejoin the offender. And that means forgiveness involves a change of thinking about the offender. Reconciliation involves a change of behavior. by the offender. Forgiveness is a free gift.
You give to the one who's broken trust. Reconciliation is a restored relationship based on restored trust.
So, that restored trust is huge. And what that means for us is. Forgiveness is extended even if it's not earned. But reconciliation is offered to the offender because it has been earned, and therefore. Forgiveness is unconditional.
Regardless of a lack of repentance, but reconciliation is conditional based on repentance.
So I think those distinctions are imperative. They're not the same at all. In your book, Forgiveness, I think this is profound. You write this: quote: Relationships filled with resentment ultimately perish. Relationships filled with forgiveness ultimately prevail.
And I think the reason I want to bring that out is there might be somebody listening, and let me just say, folks, your marriage is on the line, or your relationship with your children, or it could even be a relationship with someone at work. I have just watched Bitterness and resentment. not only break apart lives, but really June in the ministry, I've watched unforgiveness age people. I mean, I can almost tell it it takes its toll, doesn't it? It's tragic because this is the opposite of what Jesus.
is about. The God of the Bible. What we see multiple times throughout the Bible is the concept. Of forgiveness, and you're not, again, you're not letting them off the hook, you're taking them off of your hook, putting them onto God's hook. And he says, it's mine to avenge, I will repay.
So let him take charge of the painful relationships you have. You just do what God says and you won't regret it. You know, we're almost out of time, and it's always such a blessing to visit with you. But in Philippians 3:10, there's a famous verse. A lot of Christians love it.
It says, that I may know him and the power of his resurrection. But there's Another sentence in there it says, and the fellowship of his sufferings. Yeah, we don't always bring that. Is it fair to say this as we close that forgiveness and extending grace That's an opportunity to know what it feels like to be Jesus. Because he forgave We didn't deserve it.
But Folks, to grow to be like Jesus, maybe in a minuscule degree to experience what it felt like to be the Savior. we forgive even if the one we're extending it to we don't feel like deserves it. The issue isn't deserving. when we experience Pain. hurt.
You know what I learned? It gave me. Empathy. uh compassion for those who have also been hurt. And that is incredibly valuable, meaning To say I too went through this.
Uh I too had a cruel father. Mm.
And this is what I learned through that and what to do.
So you earn credibility when you've gone through trials. In fact, the Bible even says we are called to suffer, that we will be persecuted. The Bible is clear. This is not, it's not come to Christ and, oh, it's a bed of roses. And there are theologians, or there, I'll say this.
They are not being biblical when they say, just come to Christ and everything will just be wonderful. This is not. Milk and cookies. In fact, when you seriously walk with Jesus, sometimes that's when life really does get challenging. We're almost out of time.
June Hunt, you are such a blessing. The website is hopefortheheart.org. The book is forgiveness, along with many, many more. We're out of time today, but I want to say thank you for being the servant of God that you are, but also thank you, June Hunt, for being the example that you are. You've inspired millions, myself included.
I love that we are friends. And I consider you a genuine friend. And I, you. Thank you. Folks, thanks for listening.
And remember, Jesus is as close by as a prayer. Alex McFarlane Ministries are made possible through the prayers and financial support of partners like you. For over 20 years, this ministry has been bringing individuals into a personal relationship with Christ and has been equipping people to stand strong for truth. Learn more and donate securely online at alexmacfarlane.com. You may also reach us by calling 1-877-YESGOD and the number 1.
That's 1-877-Y-E-S-G-O-D-1. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again on the next edition of the Alex McFarlane Show. Hey, producer Mike here for the Alex McFarlane Show. You know, Alex just released his 21st book, 100 Questions on Prophecy and the End Times.
And he's here with me in the studio. Alex, tell us about it.
Well, people everywhere are telling me they love this book. I'm going to ask a favor of the listeners. Folks, this will help, I assure you. Would you go into your local Barnes Noble bookstore? Find a Barnes Noble and go in.
If they don't have my books, would you special order yourself a copy in the Barnes Noble store? The new book, 100 Bible Questions on Prophecy and the End Times, fresh research, published by Broadstreet. Please go into your local Barnes Noble and ask for this and all the other books I've written. It will help spread the word, grow our sales, and get the gospel in the hands of others. And I thank you for doing this to spread the gospel.
