The Spiritual Condition of America, Politics, Culture, and Current Events Analyzed Through the Lens of Scripture. Welcome to the Alex McFarland Show. You know, one of the beautiful things about being a Christian is our personal testimony and sharing what the Lord has done in our life. Hi, Alex McFarland here. I'm coming to you today from a very special place, a place that's become very near and dear to my heart, which is the Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center in Western North Carolina.
I have the privilege of being here this summer, as I have for 20 years, to teach God's Word. And, you know, one of the great blessings, as if getting to come to the Cove, isn't blessing enough, but Angie and I, over the years, have gotten to be friends with somebody very dear to us, Gigi Graham.
Now, Gigi Graham is one of the children of Billy and Ruth Graham, the great evangelist Billy Graham. And today we have a rare privilege. We're going to talk a little bit with Gigi. And first of all, Gigi. Gigi Graham, I want to thank you for making time to be with us on the program today.
Well, Alex, it's my privilege and my joy to be with you and your people that listen to you.
Well, you know, I remember, I don't know, several years ago, I was here to speak, and we were having dinner on the first day, and you were coming over to eat with us. And I said to my wife, I said, I think that's Billy Graham's daughter. And I have to tell you, it was exciting to meet you. A little bit intimidating. But like myself, our whole family grew up watching your father on TV.
And I remember when I was about 11, we went to Raleigh, North Carolina, saw Billy Graham at Carter Finlay Stadium. I and 65,000 other people. My sister, who was five years older than me, she went forward that night. I didn't really understand it. I was about 11.
It would be some years before I understood it. But first of all, I want to say thank you because I know the sacrifice of your family, the time, it must have been a tremendous sacrifice that your mother and all of you and your siblings made for your dad to go evangelize much of the world. What was it like growing up as the daughter of Billy Graham?
Well, of course, I tell people I don't have anything to compare it to. I'm just glad the Lord didn't have me. born into Al Capone's family. But anyway, you know, it was, mother made it fun. You know, she used to quote the old mountain man that said, make the least of all that goes and the most of all that comes.
So every time daddy would leave, she'd have tears in her eyes and then she'd turn around to us and say, okay, let's look forward to daddy coming back again. And I think of the days that we're living in now and how important it is that we start looking forward to when Jesus comes back again, like when we did with Daddy. But I grew up in a wonderful, wonderful community. It was comprised mainly of retired missionaries and retired pastors of the Presbyterian Church.
So my grandparents retired here when Mao Zeitung came. They had been missionaries for 25 years in China. That's where I get my name from. It's Dajie, which is. Firstborn.
Now, your grandfather was L. Nelson Bill. I remember my dad read some of his books because you do have a godly heritage. Both sides have godly heritage, and that's a lot to be thankful for, but I feel sometimes a lot to be responsible for. The Lord says, Whom much is given, much is required.
And so I've been given an awful lot. But the area that I grew up in, since they were all retired missionaries and retired pastors, and they knew the Bible backwards and forwards, but they were fun-loving and they were great to us kids. And so I grew up wanting to be like them. They gave me an appetite for what they had.
So I never rebelled in my Christian faith. I wanted to be like them. You mentioned your mother made it fun. I got that impression. I remember, you know, there were always magazines and books and things about your family.
First of all, let me ask: was it intrusive? Did you ever feel put upon that you and your siblings were always kind of in the spotlight?
Well, I don't even know if we realized it. We didn't know anything until daddy's picture began coming on. Top Look magazine, Life magazine, and I'd say, well, my friends up the street, their father's a pastor, and his picture isn't on the front of all these magazines.
So we didn't even realize. We knew daddy was traveling and preaching. But the other wonderful thing about that community, outside of those gates was, you know, and I don't mean this derogatory because I think I'm one, but there were rednecks and mountain folk. And so these were not real educated people and so forth. And so inside those gates were missionaries that had been educated.
The Presbyterian church only sent out people that had been totally educated. And so they all spoke the languages of the countries they came from.
So inside those gates, I heard every major language of the world spoken.
So it was wonderful because that made us think, you know, and mother would say, daddy's in this country or daddy's in that country. It came home to us. And these missionaries would tell us stories about that country. And so they were just like, we were like a big family. And my grandparents were one.
Wonderful.
Now, your mother grew up in China, didn't she?
So you probably knew about China from a very young age, didn't you? Knew it and loved it. Still do. And mother grew up in China, and then she went to North Korea to high school. But, you know, so we were a few years ago, this is, but it's been some years now because she passed away, but she and myself and a couple others were invited by the Korean government, the North Korean government, to go and visit.
So we got to go back, and it was such a privilege to see where she had, you know, spent many years and four years there. She was in high school. And I've read in books, I mean, your mom felt like she would be a missionary. How did Ruth Bell and Billy Graham meet?
Well, they met at Wheaton College. She wanted to be an old maid missionary to Tibet. And she told my grandfather she was going to go to this very, very strict school, Prairie Bible Institute in Canada. And that's where she wanted to go.
Well, my grandfather said, as long as I'm paying the bills, you'll go where I send you. And he had heard about Wheaton from friends, and he said, You're going to Wheaton College. And boy, am I glad.
So that's where she met Daddy. And growing up, at what age... Gigi, did you realize, okay, my dad is Billy Graham, not just a minister, but he's an evangelist traveling to the ends of the earth? How old were you when that realization?
Well, probably, you know, when the magazine started coming out, so that would have been, you know, I would have probably been 10, 9, 10, 11. And, you know, we didn't think too much of it, except that he.
Now we did start thinking about it when the tourists started coming. By the bus loads. Like up your driveway? Noelle, they would park on the side of the road. and that all pile out And I'm sorry to say, and I don't mean this derogatorily to the Baptists, but most of them were Baptists because they came from Ridgecrest.
I'll bet they did. For those of you that know Western North Carolina, right across I-40, okay, we're at the Cove Conference Center, but not a stone's throw away is Ridgecrest.
So we got to take a break. When we come back, I want to find out how they followed a trail of breadcrumbs and found your house, I guess. If you're just tuning in, what a joy. We're talking with Gigi Graham. At the Cove.
The website instantly is thecove.org. You should come here. You will be blessed. We've got a brief break. We'll come back with more from Gig Graham after this.
Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland, a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. Charlie Kirk is coming to the Grand Strand August 21. He's one of the world's most influential social media voices and one of the people most responsible for the resurgence of young people standing up for America, getting registered to vote, and learning about our Constitution. Hi, Alex McFarland here.
You are invited to part three in our speaker series, Conversations That Matter, with Charlie Kirk, Thursday night, August 21, 7 p.m. at the Alabama Theater on Highway 17 in North Myrtle Beach. For tickets, visit the Alabama Theater website at alabama-theater.com. Hear Charlie Kirk, August 21, and there will be open mic question and answer. For complete information on the speaker series, go to alexmacfarlane.com slash conversations.
He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely. Welcome back to the Alex McFarlane Show. Welcome back to the program. Alex McFarland here, and we are having a conversation with Gigi Graham. And before the break, Gigi, you were talking about the busloads of Baptist tourists.
They wanted a glimpse of Billy Graham's family, I suppose. How did they find you? Oh, well, this is when we lived down in the valley. This was not when we moved up to, that's why we had to move to the cabin where daddy lived. Because they would come, they knew we lived there, that was our dress, and they'd pull up these bus loads of people, and they'd all get out, and they'd all come in the yard, and they'd all call out our names, wanting pictures taken, and they'd ship away at the little rail fence wanting souvenirs.
And we had to, on weekends, we had to close our curtains because we couldn't even go out and play.
So it got to the point finally, my mother said, you know, I think we're going to have to think about another place to live. Did you ever think, how do these total strangers know my name?
So you and Franklin and your siblings, you're children, and I guess they're taking pictures of you, right?
Well, now and there's the story goes around my sister Ruth. which in some plac people would know her as Bunny, she they said that she went around with a little a pocket book, you know, and asked people for money.
Well, that's not true, but she did have a little pocket book and it was on her arm and it was open.
So people did drop coins in. But we were never allowed to keep anything that people gave us, whether it was like that or whether it was a big gift that we were given. You know, that was not for us to keep. We were never allowed to keep gifts that were given to us personally. We went to some organization or was sold and the money given to what we call the Help Fund.
And then when we knew there was somebody in our area that needed help, we would go into the HELP fund and get it. Yeah. Was there pressure? On you to like be perfect? Was there like a pressure to be a perfect child?
Because after all, you are the children of Ruth and Billy Graham. Never from daddy and mother. They never put us on that pedestal. When I went to boarding school at 12 years old, a Christian boarding school in Florida, yes, lots of pressure there.
So, you know, I was there for four years, from 12 years old until I went to college. Wow.
So let me ask you this. From everything I've read, it seems like your mom did a fantastic job. You know, the. Parenting is never easy. There are always challenges.
But all of the pictures and the stories, it seemed like a joyful household. And it seemed like your mom did an amazing job of giving you guys as much as possible a normal life in a family that was known to the entire world.
Well, I'm not sure it was ever normal, but she made it fun. Mother was a character. She was spunky. She loved practical jokes, and she knew how to play them on people, and guests included. And she just was that way till the day she died.
So, you know, she was just a fun mother, and that helped. And then right across the street lived my grandparents, her parents.
So when daddy realized he was going to travel as much as he did, he asked Mother, where would you like to live? And she said, near my parents.
So that's why we moved down there.
So my grandparents had a great influence on all of our lives. Coming up, did you meet some especially memorable people?
Well, I mean, usually they came and disturbed everything in our lives. Like, let's see, Richard Nixon came, and that made, you know, they had, because when people like that come, it's security people, it's everything that comes and just sort of, you know, disrupts your life. But we sort of thought it was fun. Daddy was on This Is Your Life and things like that. Did you go to some of the Crusades and travel with him?
When I was young, I went to Scotland with him. That was real interesting for me. And then after that I was in school most of the time. And then once I got married and lived in Europe, then we went more. And then when you know, my kids went more, they helped in the Crusades and so forth.
But when I was growing up, we were pretty much in school. You know, one of the things that I love about the Cove and also the library in Charlotte are the artifacts. People around the world that would give your family different things about the gospel and copies of the Bible in other languages. For people that maybe have never been to the Cove, and I urge you folks, when I lived in Charlotte, we always took guests to see the Billy Graham Library in Charlotte, and you will be so moved by that. I urge you to go visit that.
But tell me about some of the artifacts that have come from around the world.
Well, everywhere daddy went, you know, the head of state of that particular country would always give him a gift, and he would have to return one to them. But we had all these gifts, but you know, they were his personally, but we weren't allowed to keep those either. They were all, Daddy said, all this comes from the Lord, it goes back to the Lord.
So that's why they're at the archives in Charlotte, they're at the library, and they're here at the Cove. Most of the things here at the Cove have been taken, the good things I should say, have been taken to Charlotte. I used to take an it took me an hour, almost an hour and a half, just to tour this building with guests, with all the things to tell them and to show them.
So but that's been a lot of that's been taken down to Charlotte 'cause that's where everything is. The archive building I haven't seen. Will Graham has shown me some things and for everything that's on display, I mean, there's a whole lot more that even I guess they have to rotate things out. Are there any of the artifacts that are especially memorable to you?
Well, there's a gun, That one of the mobsters from New York got saved and put the gun in the offering plate. And then there's checks from very famous people that were written to the Billy Graham Association. I even gave them Mother's engagement ring to put in one of the cabinets because I asked her, I said, can I give that down there now? Because you're not going to use it anymore. And so there's some very personal things, Mother's wedding dress.
And the veil's not there because she used the veil to decorate our bassinets.
So we don't have a veil anymore, but her dress is there. And she made her dress. Really? She made her wedding dress? Yes, because, you know, that was right after the war.
And all the bridesmaids and everybody, you know, pretty much had to pan. Mother was a beautiful seamstress and a tailor, too. I mean, she would go, you know, on vacations with sometimes wealthy people, famous people. And I know she felt inferior, you know, when you don't have money to go out and buy the clothes that they have, but she would make clothes that were just as pretty as theirs. Amen.
Amen. There is here on the premises at the Cove the Chatlos Memorial Chapel, and there's some artifacts. One of the things over there that's really intrigued me is the pulpit that your dad traveled. There was a special pulpit. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
I don't know, probably as much as you do. I know that there was a pulpit that had, it could go up and down, and it had lights, so that, you know, daddy knew that it was time to start. You know, winding down his sermon and things like that. I don't know that much about the pulpit. You know more, probably.
Well, we're going to take a break. If you want to listen to this show again at alexmacfarlane.com, we're going to archive this show. The life of Billy and Ruth Graham growing up in the Graham family. This is our very special guest, Gig Graham. And we're going to come right back after this brief break.
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Welcome back to the program. Alex McFarland here. We're talking with our friend, not just acquaintance, but our friend Gigi Graham and how special it is. Gigi, for one thing, thank you for making some time to be with us while we're here at the COVID. It's my joy.
It's my joy to be with you. You know, one of the things I enjoy talking, you and I have a shared love of cars. Yes, that's true. You know, after I had, I have seven children, and so you know, I started out with a van that's as big as those that take you in the car, you know, I mean, to pick you up at the airplane and take you somewhere because we had seven kids and a Rottweiler, and they all had to fit in the car.
So then, when my children were grown, I said, no more vans.
So I got my first Mustang.
Well, you know, one of the first few times we met, we were talking about Ford Mustangs and Dodge Chargers, and I was like, wow, this is Billy Graham's daughter, and she's cool.
Well, my great-grandchildren think I'm cool. My kids think I'm crazy because I have a Dodge Charger now. It's awesome. But let me throw something out there. And folks, if you're listening, you know who Billy Graham is and the gospel.
Maybe you've read that booklet, Steps to Peace with God. But just because you're Billy Graham's daughter, that doesn't automatically get you to heaven, does it? You personally have a relationship with Christ. God doesn't have grandchildren.
So, you know, we were taught from an early age that we had to make a personal decision for Christ.
Now, I was very young because I got sick. I don't remember the exact details of my illness, but mother was afraid that I would die. And she was worried about the age of accountability. And so she began to, you know, so she explained again to me, you know, John 3:16, putting my name there, you know, and she told me what it was all about again. And so I got down on my knees in my little Bedroom and ask the Lord into my heart.
And I still have that bed in my house to this day.
Now, I didn't really know, you know, I didn't know the theological implications of that, obviously. But I believe that the Lord says to whom, you know, when you start something, that he's going to complete it. And so I believe that that was the start.
Now, there have been many times since then that I've rededicated my life to the Lord. Every time I went to a crusade, I wanted to go forward when they sang just as I am. You know, it's very emotional. And you want to, and you want to make sure. And I mean, I am sure, but you know, there are just times when the devil comes along and says, you know, are you sure you're saved?
Are you sure you're going to heaven? And, you know, he likes to. Bother us that way. One of my sons said, You know, if the devil's not bothering you, don't take it as a compliment. Wow, that's a good word.
And you know, to everybody listening to this program, we often say this: that Jesus is as close by as a prayer. And you can call out to the name of the Lord and be saved today. The Bible, Gigi mentioned John 3:16. And yes, put your name in that verse that God so loved the world, He sent Jesus, His one and only Son, that whosoever believes, and I've heard it said that it's a whosoever, and Jesus loves you. If Gigi believes, or if Alex believes, or whoever's listening believes, that's all it takes.
You know, it's just to believe what he says is true: that he died for you on the cross and he's coming back again. Amen. He is coming back again. Amen. You know, in my hometown of Greensboro, North Carolina, Billy Graham had a really influential crusade there.
I think it was 1952. People in Greensboro talk about it to this day. I mean, and there are a number of great churches that were birthed in the aftermath. And like Westover Church is one of the great churches in Greensboro. And one time, 25 years ago, we had, it would have been your uncle to come and speak there, Melvin Graham.
We brought him to Greensboro. He's a storyteller. Yeah, indeed. But, you know, one of the great things, a lot of the older people. that met your dad back in the 50s, they used to tell me that he was the most humble man.
And one, I'm thinking of a dear Christian man who I knew died at 103. But he said that when Billy Graham came to do Vance Havner's funeral, and Vance Havner was a great evangelist, that I think Vance Havner was influential in your dad's life. But they said that they were having a conversation and Billy Graham. Was not at all impressed with the fact that he was Billy Graham. He was kind of like, I don't know why God has used me.
Glad he did use me, but that from everything I've heard, that your dad was a very humble person. He was the most humble person I knew. And that's true. I mean, for someone that lived with him and in my older age and in their older age, because my children were grown, I spent a lot of time with them when they were sick and so forth. He was always humble, and he was a people person.
He loved people. And, you know, I would have to take the important person up to the house to see daddy. And daddy would be sitting there. And he would talk a few minutes to that person. And then he'd turn to whoever the person was that was driving him or brought him up and say, Now, I want to know about you.
Tell me about your family. Do you have children? Do you have a you always turn to the others? I've never seen him be rude in a cafeteria when the line was out the door for. Signing autographs.
I've never seen him be rude on an airplane when someone came and asked for an autograph. He was always a gentleman and always humble. He was just a farmer from. Charlotte wore saggy blue jeans and a blue jean jacket and a hat when he was home. You know, there's so much all of us can learn from that.
Very, very inspirational. Let me ask you this: what would you like people to know? Obviously, about the Billy Graham ministries because the Billy Graham ministry goes on. I mean, talk for a minute, if you would, about BGEA. I mean, they're still preaching the gospel to the world, aren't they?
They are. My nephew Will. is now doing crusades.
So is my brother, obviously. They don't call them crusades today. And they're going around the world and they're getting invitations from countries that daddy was never able to go to. My brother, I think they're inviting him back right now to for the fourth time to Vietnam.
Now that's pretty amazing. Daddy never got to Vietnam. There are a couple of other countries like that. Frank was in Laos. And so and Will too.
Will travels all over, and he's a very good preacher and a wonderful, wonderful young man.
So yes, God is continuing. You know, and then, of course, people know my sister. Daddy said she was the best preacher in the family. And Graham Lotts. I pray and I trust everybody's healthy.
They are now. We've gone through our, I had my younger sister Ruth went through a terrible automobile, not automobile accident, but it happened to do with an automobile. And we thought we were going to lose her. And so, after about six days of no response at all, all of a sudden she opened her eyes. We were planning her funeral.
So, you know, so she's doing fine now. I've got to ask you this. I think it was February of 2018 that your dad went to heaven. Does my memory serve me? February of 18.
I know it was 2018. I guess it was in February because it was freezing cold. It was cold. You know, though, the tent, Angie and I had the, we were there in the tent. It was.
Sort of outdoors, there was a big tent. And I was looking around, and there was my former employer, James Dobson, and there was David Jeremiah, and Lee Strobel, the great defender of the faith. Only time I've ever seen Lee in a tie. And of course, President Trump. Mike Huckabee and Sarah Palin and Pat Robertson.
And there was this incredible tapestry of the body of Christ from around the world. It's got to be very meaningful and very special that your family has been able to do what a lot of people couldn't do, which is unify the body of Christ. I don't know about that. I know the Lord has done it. But I do know that, you know, we try to love people and we love on them and we don't think we're special, at least.
We try not to act like we're special, you know, and I think all these people love daddy. They absolutely adored him. The only person that had to get up and leave was Charles Stanley because he just got too cold. And we were about to leave. We were so cold.
It was a cold day. It was really cold.
Now, that I didn't know about Dr. Stanley. Yeah, he had to leave. But, you know, it was amazing. And, you know, to have the president there and his wife and the different ones, it was really an amazing day.
Well, I've got to ask you this. We're almost out of time. Two questions. Number one, may we visit again on air sometime and we'll go a little bit longer? Of course.
I've got a long life. Second question: Do you have a very special Bible verse as we wrap up? When you need to hear from God, what part of His Word speaks to you, Gigi?
Well, you know, usually it depends on my mood, but usually I go to the Psalms. You know, and I skipped the Psalms of Lament. I want the joyful ones. But, you know, and I mean, Psalm 139 is such a blessing to know that he's known before we were even conceived the days of our lives and how long we're going to live and what we're going to do. That's such an encouragement because then when we get old, like me, you think, okay, well, what did I do?
Or anyway, obviously, I did at least what I thought the Lord wanted me to do. That was to have a big family.
Well, I want to say thanks. And, folks, again, the Cove is amazing. It's been my joy to speak here many times. And there is no finer Christian conference venue that I've ever seen anywhere in the world. And of course, in Charlotte, the Billy Graham Library, there's just so much there that will inspire you.
And I hear now there is a center for evangelism, isn't it? It's called the Archive Building. They call it the Ark because I know we got two Ark. But it's called the Ark, and it's all the Ark. Archives, and it's un.
I haven't been able to go yet, but it's unbelievable, I've been told. The paper archives, just all kinds of archives, artifacts as well. Did you ever come across any artifacts that you had forgotten, and there they are now? You remember it? Oh, I would if I went down there.
But also, I find things going through, you know, my papers.
Sometimes I go through the papers, then I give them ones. Like, I've got all my mother's love letters to daddy. And eventually I'm going to have to give those to the archives, because I don't know what I'm going to do with them. You know, that would make a great book.
Well, what I wanted to do is Baker put out a book years ago that my mother it was her poems, it was her love poems to daddy. And I was asked to do the introduction.
Well, they made the introduction like I was telling the story all the way through the book.
So I would love to get that. Manuscript back and then add, go through these love letters and pick out things, then stick them in there. I think that'd be nice.
Well, whatever you write in the future, we'll do our best to put you on the radio and help promote it. We got to pull away because downstairs in a few moments, a seminar will start. In the meantime, Gigi Graham, blessings and thank you.
Well, thank you for coming here. It's always a blessing, Alex, and I love you and your wife very, very much. We love you, sister. Folks, thanks for listening. Hey, be in church Sunday, and remember, tell somebody about Jesus.
Yeah. Alex McFarlane Ministries are made possible through the prayers and financial support of partners like you. For over 20 years, this ministry has been bringing individuals into a personal relationship with Christ and has been equipping people to stand strong for truth. Learn more and donate securely online at alexmacfarlane.com. You may also reach us by calling 1-877-YESGOD and the number 1.
That's 1-877-Y-E-S-G-O-D-1. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again on the next edition of the Alex McFarlane Show. Diva, diva, diva, deeper, deeper, deeper.
