Wednesday, April 2nd | On Being a Scholar and a Pastor

Hi, I'm Dr. Abidan Shah, and I'm excited and honored to become one of the newest featured leaders on Pray.com. It's a privilege to be part of a platform dedicated to encouraging and strengthening people in their faith.

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And don't forget to support Pray.com by sharing it with your friends and family. You're listening to Clearview today with Dr. Abidan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the studio today. Great conversation. We're going to be talking about Biblical preaching, a lot of things that people think they know a lot about. But really, I think there's room to grow.

There's room to always be finding what God has in store for us through Biblical preaching. But before we do any of that, Dr. Shah, welcome to the show. It's good to be here. Thank you for having me here.

Absolutely, absolutely. Today's check-in is coming to us from Chris T. in North Carolina. Chris T. Chris T. writes, Hi Dr. Shah, I wanted to thank you for your episode on baptism you did last week. My brother and I were baptized as babies and had always figured we were good. I got saved years ago and got baptized by immersion because the church I joined required it for membership. After I heard your episode last week, I sent the episode to my brother and he told me he's now thinking seriously about getting baptized for the first time as a believer.

Nice. I just want to share this with you and say thank you for that episode. Please pray for him as he takes this next step in his faith. Thank you so much for writing to us and letting us know that. That's awesome.

Because it's always great to see people being baptized, but it's also great to hear that somebody is taking that step of obedience at their church with their pastor. So I'm happy to hear that. I love that encouragement. I know that several people have had that same conversation with you over the years and expressed similar things like, thank you for clearing this up because there was that big struggle with, I was baptized as a baby, my parents did this, I don't want to negate anything or I don't want to be disrespectful to my parents.

And I think that episode and that conversation is helpful. Yeah, there are people who did not take that step. I know some people who said, you know, I know what you're saying, but I don't think I'm going to do that.

And they walked away from it. So to hear somebody did understand the meaning, the significance of baptism. You know, they know that it's not going to save them. It does not wash their sins away.

But they have the proper biblical understanding of baptism and now following through. It's a joy to hear that. I'm very happy.

Yeah. Amen. Amen. I want to encourage you and your brother to follow that step of obedience. If someone came to you, Dr. Shah, and they said, listen, I was baptized by a merchant when I was like 15. And now I'm in my 30s and I want to rededicate my life and I want to get baptized again. Do you say, well, you did it correctly.

You're already good. There's no need. Or do you say, yeah, absolutely. Well, I talk to them for a little bit. And just to understand where they are coming from is what's happening there is, you know, are they, were they really saved back then?

And if they were, then, hey, don't worry about it. But if they feel like, you know, this is going to really help me in my journey. So when they say that, then I say, okay, I'll do it. And so you would baptize them again by a merchant?

Yes, of course. Next week, if they say, listen, that was really great. I got a spiritual, I got a spiritual boost out of that. I would love to do that. I think I'd love to do that again.

I would love to do it a third time. Well, at that point, we're going to have to have a conversation and say, you know, I get it. I get it. You're daily growing and really, you know, growing in Christ. But I don't think you have to be baptized every weekend. Now, you know, in among the Jewish people, there were certain sects that got baptized every day.

Wow. Oh, yeah. Several times a day. I was about to make a joke about getting baptized every weekend.

But now, I mean, like every single day. But the water bill. Well, they had tanks. There's just nothing but water. So you just going into the tank, this massive pit in the ground, you know, like a big water tub in the ground. And I've seen some of those places, and that was a ritual for them. It did not have the same meaning that we ascribe or Paul ascribed to baptism.

It was about daily purification. That's not baptism. Yeah, that's true.

Not the same thing. Not at all. So good, guys. Remember to check in with us, 252-582-5028. We love hearing from you, love getting those notes into the show. And Dr. Shaw, I'd be happy to give you some daily encouragement when you write those check-ins in.

We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clearview Today. It's impossible without the faithful support of listeners like you. When you give to Clearview Today, you're not just supporting a radio show. You're investing in a gospel-driven mission to share the truth of Jesus Christ without compromise. Your financial partnership helps us stay on the air, expand our reach, and continue creating content that encourages, equips, and transforms lives.

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You can make a one-time donation or become a monthly partner. Whatever God lays on your heart, thank you for standing with us in this ministry. Together, we can make Christ visible. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

That's right. Today's verse of the day is coming to us from 2 Timothy 4 in verse 2. It says, Preach the word.

Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and teaching. Preach the word.

What a command. Paul's encouragement to Timothy is an encouragement to us, too. I think that's something people forget, Dr. Shah, maybe Christians as well, that preaching is not a hobby. It's not like, well, this is just kind of what I like to do. I do it because I like it. It's a command that God has given to us.

Yes. So it's much more than just standing up in the front and giving people positive encouragement or standing up there and just teaching people. Preaching is more than that. And I know through the years I have said that and sometimes it shocks people because they often will tell me or compliment me, you're such a great teacher.

And I accept the compliment and I'm grateful to them for that. But that's not my goal. My goal is to be a preacher. And there is a difference between preacher and teacher.

Sometimes people even merge those two categories and they'll say, you are a preacher teacher or you're a teacher preacher, you know, whatever. And what they're saying is, you know, I like the way you teach me the Bible and instead of just preaching at me. And I do get because many times people have heard the form of preaching where people just yell at you. You know, they just yell at you and they just smack the pulpit and pound the pulpit and they walk back and forth and they're wiping the sweat and they're repeating the same thing. The loudness and the passion equals truth and therefore people are like, this is really good preaching. That's indicative of what people have been exposed to. I have certainly grown up hearing those phrases like he's a preacher, he's a teacher.

I'm grateful to Dr. Shah because he actually teaches me the Bible when in reality that's what true biblical preaching ought to do. I've seen that in Hollywood too where it's like you'll have a scene with two actors and they're talking and like really critical information is being passed. And no one's like, wow, they really did a great job acting in that scene. But you take a scene where someone's angry and they're shouting and they're like punching the wall and they're all up and like really worked up.

They'd be like, wow, that scene, that guy's a great actor. But you don't ever see like someone who's calm and level-headed but actually doing a good job and people like that. It's only good if they're loud and boisterous and charismatic. Well, if you want to know what makes up good preaching, what Paul tells us in 1 Timothy chapter 4, but listen to verse 2 again. He says, preach the word, be ready in season and out of season. Now here are the four elements that make up biblical preaching. Convince. Convince means there needs to be some logic there.

There needs to be some reason there. That's part of good preaching. It's not just repeating things that you already agree with.

Right. But you have to give them a reason. You have to give them logic that they can go, okay, I'm tracking with you and you are helping me change my mind or make up my mind here.

Convince. Secondly, rebuke. That's also part of biblical preaching where you are, in a sense, chastising people. Or maybe even if you want to use a crude terminology, you're fussing at people to stop doing certain things or to start doing certain things. That's also part of biblical preaching.

Pastor stepped all over my toes today. So I don't want to interrupt you because I can tell you're kind of on a train of thought. But with that, do you find that challenging or do you know that given where we are, there's tons of people who like that? When you're like, I have to rebuke the congregation. I have to fuss at people a little bit. Are you ever hesitant to do it because I don't really want to anger people or upset people? Or is it more like, I know that in this context from the pulpit, people really like to be kind of rebuked? Because people do say that.

They're like, oh, I love when you step on my toes. I love when you convict me. And I'm not saying I like to do that, but I feel like I need to do that because if I'm not clear and direct and challenging and calling people to action, and action maybe stop or action maybe start. If I don't do that, then I am missing one of the key elements of biblical preaching, which is rebuke.

And we can look at the Greek words in a minute if you would like to. So convince, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering. Exhort. What does exhort mean? Exhort means encouragement. Encourage them. Lift them up.

Ask them to run the race. And that's part of exhortation. And then and with all long suffering and teaching. So with all long suffering, kind of like patient means don't lose your cool. Don't become impatient. Don't be like, I've had it up to here with you. You know, I'm done. I'm done. I'm not just going to take it anymore. That would be, that's not long suffering. No hissy fits on the stage.

No hissy fits. You know, last weekend we talked about orge is anger or wrath. And then tumors is rage. Here the word for long suffering is macrotumia.

Macrotumia. That word macrotumia, it means patience, but it's a combination word which kind of tells us what it's all about. So tumors, if it's rage, long suffering would have been macross is long and tumors is passion. So long passion. Long passion. Long passion.

So that's macrotumia. And then final ingredient, the fourth ingredient is teaching. But unfortunately, if you notice, we either are rebukers or teachers. Never both.

Or the other four. Oh, I see what you're saying. I see. Rebukers or teachers. There should be convincing. There should be a rebuking. There should be an exhorting.

And then there should be teaching. People treat this like a list, like pick any two of the following. You can pick two, but you can't pick more than that. You can't pick all four.

No, they're all supposed to be there. And so when it comes to preaching, because this is something I think can kind of help frame the conversation, I think of a preacher, right? And like you said, a preacher is a preacher.

That's what he does. And he may do other things, but he is first and foremost, he's a preacher. Do you see yourself that way or do you see yourself as I'm a preacher over here, but I'm also a scholar? Because you're also a professor, right? You also teach in classrooms and universities and stuff like that. So do you find that, in your mind, I'm a preacher first and foremost? This is what I do. And then I'm also blessed to be able to be a scholar and a professor.

Or is it, no, I'm both simultaneously and they both influence the other? Because you don't see a lot of scholars who are also full-time pastors. They may go preach like on a circuit or something. It's getting to be like now there are a lot of guys I know who have sort of left the academia and are back in the pulpit. And maybe it's for full-time.

Maybe it's for financial reasons. Maybe it's they felt like they had abandoned their calling and went into academics when they were really called into active day-to-day ministry in a church setting, because I think even academics can be ministry. But here they feel like they need to be just in ministry the whole time, not a classroom. Do you feel like you're one or the other primarily and then the other supports it? Do you feel like I'm a preacher and I'm a pastor and my academic work supports that? Or do you feel like I am wholly both? I would say I'm both. I'm both. I'm called into ministry, but since God gave me the gift to reason and study, then I feel like I'm a pastor, but I'm also an academic.

Is it hard to juggle both, or do you feel like they go more hand-in-hand than it takes to juggle? There is some juggling involved, I would say, but they can go hand-in-hand as I've tried to do it for my ministry here. So our messages are not the typical messages.

There's three points and a story. The messages are hard-hitting, but they are really dealing with some deep theological truth or some really cutting-edge discussion that is happening on a topic or a linguistic situation or controversy. I'm dealing with that, and I bring that out. For example, I'm preaching on that phrase, faith in Christ. The Romans talks about that. Paul talks about that. Is it faith in Christ, or is it faithfulness of Christ?

Is it an objective genitive, faith in Christ as objective genitive, or is it a subjective genitive, which is faith of Christ? Now, on one hand, somebody will say, man, I don't care about any of that. It doesn't really matter to me. I just want to hear some good preaching. I want to hear how to love my wife, my children, good work, serve the church, reach the lost, go to heaven.

I don't need to know about objective genitive and subjective genitive. I feel like that's important because it gives me something unique to talk about, but these topics are important for a reason. They're not just something that the scholars have made a mountain out of a molehill. There is something significant to discuss. There are some ramifications if you just go with faith in Christ or if you just go with faithfulness of Christ.

There is something to lose and something to gain by picking one of those positions. So it's important to pick the right one, to pick the right one that the author intended. Yeah, whatever Paul intended. The just shall live by faith. What is that faith? From faith to faith, is it the faithfulness of Christ to the faith of the believer? I mean, what is the faith to faith that Paul is talking about? So all these things do make a difference, and the more I study it, the more I see that people in the pews want to know these things, and they are significant things. How do you come up with those questions to begin with?

So, for instance, if someone says the just shall live by faith, I feel like it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the average person would just say, okay, I know what that means, I just need to trust God. What makes you say, what does that mean? What makes you question that phrase, I guess?

Great question. So, being an academic, I have resources in my hands that help me figure out what are the main issues in that book, in that passage, in that verse. So you're reading it with those issues in mind? I already have information on them.

I have dictionaries, I have encyclopedias, I have subscriptions to the best of the best in scholarship. So I will go and see, what are the main issues in the book of Romans? What used to be the main issues, what are the main issues right now?

What will be the main issues down the road? So I will read up on that. And then in that reading, you begin to go, oh, yes, so before I can tell people everything about Romans, I need to master some of these topics. Righteousness of God, what does that mean, the word righteousness? The wrath of God, what does that mean? This weekend we're going to be talking about the faith. Is it faith of Christ, faith in Christ?

Next time we'll talk about the role of the law. We'll talk about the meaning of grace. We'll talk about what does it mean when Paul says in Christ, that phrase in Christ, what does that imply? So these are issues that scholars have been debating over the past several hundred years, if not throughout church history. So I will go study them, and then I will decide, based on linguistic, contextual, and theological standards, what is the right view? I think that whole approach speaks to what you said earlier about being both a pastor and a scholar.

When asked, am I this or am I this, your answer is yes, I am both. Because you don't set your scholastic mind aside when you begin to prepare a sermon. You bring those same tools to bear on this passage that you're exegeting, this passage that you're explaining on Sunday. And I think that's why people are so impacted and they're so moved by your messages, because it's a style of preaching that they have, to this point, been unfamiliar with.

Maybe because of a lack of training, maybe because of a lack of tools in the toolbox, but I have always said that you give people answers to the questions they don't know they need to be asking. That's a good way to say that. You lead us to places where we would not ourselves go, because you are a scholar and you are also a pastor. A scholar would just say, I'm here, I'm operating on this on my own. A pastor would say, I'm going to take care of you while you're here. A pastor or scholar, both and, says, come with me as we go to this place. That's sort of the vision of this show, and it's also, I think, the vision of, and this isn't a vision that we've crafted as a church, what I'm getting at, is that every church has their vision. We want to seek and save the lost, we want to lead people to worship Jesus, and we have all that too, but we also have a deeper vision that I have not seen in other churches, which is, we're going to show you the gold that you're walking over.

You know what I mean? In your Bible, there's gold, like legitimate, life-changing doctrines. Most people, I'd say 99% of people, are walking right over them because they just don't see it. Right, they're unaware. And they're unaware, and it's not that they're blind, they just don't know to be looking for it. Like, it's in there, but they don't know how to see it. And so part of our vision as, I think, you as a preacher and as a pastor, and then even this show, is to help you learn how to dust it off and see, oh, that's a rock, that's a rock, that's some gold. Yeah, dig it up, if you will.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like people want to know, I believe people need to know, I believe God wants us to teach people what they need to know, and it's there for a reason. It's there in Scripture for a reason. Does faithfulness of God versus faith in Christ or faithfulness of Christ versus faith in Christ, does that make a difference? Yes, it does make a difference, because salvation depends on it, discipleship depends on it, your understanding of Christ depends on it. So there are ramifications.

Now, one more thing that I do, other than linguistically, contextually, and theologically examining a passage, I also want to know if I take that position, let's say I take the position of faith in Christ, what is going to be the domino effect on some other doctrine that I'll also hold on to? Right. Unfortunately, many times people coming out of seminary or have been pastoring for many years, they go with the latest, greatest book or a personality or a movement, and they just latch onto that and go, oh, I love that.

I love this guy and what he's been saying. Because it's new and it's fresh. Or it's impactful. Impactful is great, but sometimes what we see is in the moment. We don't see where this train is headed. So right now it seems like, man, that's a great doctrine. I don't know why we haven't been preaching on this for years and years.

I wish we had known that. Well, what if it's not a good doctrine? What if it's not biblical?

What if it's not healthy? What if there is a chasm coming up and you just feel like, man, this is an open road. This feels so good. Why didn't I know about this open road? I could have been running here all my life. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're about to go off.

Could it be that there's a hazard up ahead? Does that foresight come naturally? It's like if you're reading a doctrine and you're, like you said, you're doing the research and you say, this scholar says this and this scholar says this.

They both have great points, but I think I lean more towards this guy. How long does it take you to say, oh, wait, there's a problem up ahead? Is that usually pretty instant or is it like I've got to do more research and study? Well, it's not just studying abstract doctrines and biblical passages. There are also people that I follow. So I want to know where does this person go and why are they not going along with this particular view? Why do they take that view? And sometimes it is clearly apparent.

Other times it's after studying on it for a whole day that you go, oh, I know why he didn't take that view. It's because this view here says this and this is how they're connected. I see why.

Of course I cannot take that view now. Are these other scholars that you're talking about? Yes. Got you.

So sometimes they are a major indicator to stay on this trail and not that trail. Scholars in the past, scholars that are living today or both? Both. Both.

Got you, got you. And so when you iron out that view, how long would you say it takes you to iron out that view before it? Like studying a concept, studying a doctrine, tracing down the scholarship, and then preaching it on a Sunday morning. Is it just within the confines of that week? Depends on the book.

Gotcha. Depends on the passage. Depends on the theology or the doctrine that is impacted. So some may not be as heavy because there's nothing as critical that is sitting inside that passage or that chapter or that verse. So the focus is more about just make sure it is exegetically right because theologically we're in the right ballpark.

Exegetically it needs to be accurate and then application needs to be good. That's about it. Gotcha. Other doctrines, other passages or chapters would be or books would be more like, OK, we need to make sure that we are not getting off track here because this sounds so good or this guy's book is a bestseller or she is such a good theologian.

Wait, there's something going on here. That may take me sometimes if I begin working on it. I usually begin like Wednesday night and Thursday I'll spend a lot of time on it. I'm sorry, Thursday I'll spend some time on it. Friday evening I'll spend more time and Saturday all day. Gotcha. Sometimes based on the doctrine that is on the line or the theology that is on the line, it may be after studying all day Saturday and having studied all Friday evening and having studied a few hours on Thursday, I will barely have my sermon ready to write by four o'clock.

Wow. On that Saturday evening, I'm not ready. I mean, once everything begins to, as good as possible begins to mesh well, I struggle with it.

I will struggle with it. That's at four o'clock and just for context, you're preaching in two hours, like you're preaching at six. Yeah, six thirty.

Six thirty, two and a half hours. Gotcha. Gotcha. I'm thinking this through the lens of biblical preaching, because I think what a lot of people see from popular pastors, or maybe even their own home pastors, is personality. They're like, okay, I like this guy because he's a good old country boy like me or like my husband or whoever, and he's a little rough around the edges, but he speaks the truth and he just tells it like it is. And the personality takes precedence over the content. But what I see and what I think I hear you're saying is that, yes, I want to put my personality into the messages, but I will always make sure that you're getting the best from the best.

I will study the best of the best and really take time to learn these doctrines so that my congregation knows they're getting the absolute best research possible. Yeah, that's a good way to say that. I try to picture myself as a neurosurgeon who is coming up on a patient, and that patient needs a very critical surgery in their spinal column. Now, I know what needs to happen. I know where the tumor is. I know how that's going to be, but it's not easy. It's going to be a long six-hour, eight-hour surgery. There are a lot of nerves and nerve endings all around there. So I have to cut in a certain way. I have to make sure that when I go there that I'm not nicking something somewhere else. Oh, wow, we got the tumor out, but sorry, you can't walk anymore.

I cannot do that. I have to make sure that is right. So I try to picture myself as a neurosurgeon, not just a doctor, but a neurosurgeon who's about to go in for a very critical surgery. I see every message like that, critical surgery. And so when I am done, does that mean I always walk away completely clean and high-fiving everybody? There are many times I go, yeah, I could have done that better.

Like my Monday morning, I listen to the message or I watch the message, the Facebook Live. I look at it and go, that did not come across the way I was thinking in my head that it was coming across. I could have expressed that in a whole different way. I think the whole layout of the sermon could have been different for a much bigger, better impact.

But then I have to believe that God in His providence and His sovereignty allowed me and guided me to go down the path I did. So maybe He didn't want me to do that. Maybe He didn't want me to have it just right, just perfect. Maybe it had to be a little clunky.

Maybe it had to have some gaps in it. Okay, no problem. Moving forward, note to self, I'm going to clarify that, which means I've got to read this, this, and this to be ready for that clarification. So in those moments, you feel like God uses those moments to serve you more so than the congregation? Yeah, yeah. So ultimately, I would say preaching is like D. Martin Lloyd-Jones once said. D. Martin Lloyd-Jones, who was a pastor of Westminster Chapel, and he said it, preaching is truth or logic on fire. Wow. I think that's a great way to say that, logic on fire. I like that.

That was pretty good. Yeah, he said eloquent reason. He said it is theology on fire. And a theology which does not take fire, I maintain is a defective theology, or at least a man's understanding of it is defective. Preaching is theology coming through a man who is on fire.

I would add to that and say, if I can, preaching is theology coming through a man who is on fire and he sets others on fire. I like that. Amen.

Whether it's to repent or to follow Christ in obedience. I love it. That's awesome. So encouraging. I hope it was encouraging for you, our listeners, as well. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on The Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible, and don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen or share it with a friend. You can always support us financially at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

Jon, what are you going to close with today? Definitely just want to encourage you guys to listen to Dr. Shah on Pray.com. You might be listening on Pray.com right now, which means you are probably a first-time listener.

Make sure you head on over to Dr. Avidan Shah on his page on Pray. Make sure you follow. You can also give right there. Thank you to everyone who's already been giving and supporting.

Lots and lots of followers pouring in. We appreciate you. We appreciate your ministry and everything that God is doing through your life, through your churches, as well. We'll see you next time on Clearview Today. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you next time on Clearview Today.