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Real Christian Nationalism with Lance Wallnau

The Charlie Kirk Show / Charlie Kirk
The Truth Network Radio
September 14, 2023 5:00 am

Real Christian Nationalism with Lance Wallnau

The Charlie Kirk Show / Charlie Kirk

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September 14, 2023 5:00 am

"Christian nationalism" is used as a slur by the press. But as Lance Wallnau explains, we should embrace that label as a badge of honor. If Christians don't love their countries, or seek to counsel rulers while protecting the common people, then they are unworthy to call themselves members of the faith. Lance also discusses the challenge of retaking captured institutions, and how the text of the Bible contains prophetic foretellings of events today.

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That is right now. Hey everybody today in the Charlie Kirk Show. Lance Wallnau joins us for a spirited conversation about Christian nationalism. Why the church needs to get involved as we are live here at our TPUSA Faith Pastors Summit. 1,100 pastors from across the country join us for our third training in the last 13 months. We are doing a lot of TPUSA.

Very proud of the work they're doing. Email us as always freedom at and subscribe to our podcast. Get involved with Turning Point USA today at

That is Email me as always freedom at Buckle up everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

That's why we are here. Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at A perfect guest to join us for the entire hour. Someone that I have known for years and he is one of the most important voices in American Christianity, Lance Wallnau. Check out his podcast The Lance Wallnau Show.

I check it on Real America's Voice on the weekend. It is excellent and honored to have him with us for the full hour. Lance, how you doing?

Welcome to the program. I'm doing well and how exciting to hear you have 1100 pastors. Charlie, how is that different than when you started years ago trying to get churches to get interested in the future of America and conservative youth?

Yeah, it's amazing, Lance. It's a work of the Lord and when we started this project, the TPUSA faith, I had no idea what the response would be and we actually have a seating problem. We have more pastors that want to attend. This is now our third pastor summit in the last 13 months. We did one in August of last year.

We did one in Nashville that was massive and this one's the biggest one ever. So praise God, it's really growing like wild. And our critics, Lance, call us Christian nationalists. Now, I have a response to that, but Lance, how should a Christian respond? How should a pastor respond if they are all of a sudden confronted with the accusation that they are a Christian nationalist? Well, and this is something Rush used to talk about. He said that no matter what label or name you come up with, they have this ubiquitous power through media and soundbite to stigmatize anything so that a Christian nationalist, I'm almost at the point now where I'm thinking, what do we got to do? We have to constantly like change our names. So am I a Christian populist?

Maybe that throws them off for a week and then they'll come back at me at something. But really what is, or you could be like William Booth. He said when he was spit on once during a salvation army march, he said, wear it like a badge of honor because eventually they're going to stigmatize whatever you call yourself. I'm a Christian, I believe in God and I love my nation. I guess that makes me a nationalist. If that's easy, that's evil, then don't misrepresent what the word actually means. It means that I'm a Christian loves my nation. You on the other hand are what? You're someone who isn't a Christian, who doesn't love his nation.

So what do we call that? We may end up just at that point, we have to wear it as a badge of honor. Yes, I think there's some truth to that Lance. Unfortunately, far too many pastors, they think of it as a slur or they think of it as something to be apologetic or they say, well, you know, I don't want to take over the government as a Christian, but we're contending for restoring the constitutional order.

Aren't we Lance? That we believe that the church and Christians should be counselors to the King, to be in the public square, to restore parents' rights, to restore separation of powers and the promise of the bill of rights. These are not radical proposals.

We believe that when the church is active and Christians are aware that a free society flourishes, Lance, we're trying to solve this problem here at our pastor's summit. And mind you, not every one of these attendees is all in necessarily as outspoken as Lance Walnau or Charlie Kirk. Some of them are in the middle. Some of them are, you know, getting into the action or the practice, if you will. However, there are still plenty of naysayers that say, boy, it sounds really scary to speak out on these things. I don't know if I'm comfortable because I could be criticized.

Just kind of give a bigger picture. To our estimation, there's about 30 to 35,000 pastors in America, Lance. There might be even more, but that's based on our research, about 30 to 35,000 senior pastors or pastors that are giving sermons on a weekly basis or on a biweekly basis. A vast majority of them do not speak out on cultural issues. And a lot of them are swayed by the media.

Why is that? And how do we go about solving it, in your opinion? Well, it's the weakness, unfortunately, Charlie, of history. When you're raised in a family, you're third generation, your first, your grandparents had to go fight the Indians and the land and be able to, you know, plant a village. The next generation was barely able to harvest the crop and survive. The third generation then was making a living off of the store in the neighborhood with the food already provided. We lived off the borrowed piece of the Second World War generation.

We never had to fight, actually, the issues that we're fighting now. So the clergy has never been trained to be the front lines of protecting fundamental principles of social order. They talk about the more esoteric subject matter, about, you know, what, you know, about how to live a victorious life, how to overcome stress.

Those are the themes that Rick Warren built Saddleback on. Now you turn it around and say, well, how do you deal with a child that's suicidal? Or what do you do when the school's trying to convert your 11-year-old into becoming a different gender?

Or what do you do when you're being taught that your child's skin color is the reason for all the inequity in the United States? Now the pastor has got a whole different set of problems he totally unequipped to address unless we do two things, provide the pressure for them to address them, which is coming through the congregation, evidently, and secondly, the tools and resources. None of this was taught to them at Bible college.

Yeah, that's right, Lance. And let's talk about the Bible college or the seminaries. I am shocked at how some of these seminaries have become basically left-wing institutions that are camouflaged or masquerading as seminaries. How lost is the traditional American seminary? I mean, I hear stories from some that have been these wonderful places like Calvin College or Taylor College in Indiana that used to be some of the strongest Bible colleges. What has happened to our once great institutions in seminaries, Lance? Where did that go off the rails? Because they're unrecognizable, many of them now. They are, and so now it's so funny we're talking about this because 20 years ago, I started what became almost like a cult classic.

It's seven mountains of culture. 20 years ago, I started talking to the church about you better pay attention to media and to academia and to government and to business and to entertainment along with your family and with your church. Because the devil, if you wanna put it in Christian language, the devil will go for the gates of influence. If he can occupy the gates, he can control the traffic.

He will go for the top of these institutions. And we better be training our children to think about being influences within the world system and not hiding out from the world system, looking for some kind of a rapture exodus or going into ministry is the only career for a Christian. And the idea was applauded, but no churches took it seriously. Meanwhile, you've got the socialist Marxist Italian Gramsci model actually being executed, the long march through the institutions, and they didn't skip the religious mountain.

They went right to it. They said, well, we're gonna have same sex marriage verified and accepted. And then we're gonna begin to have, we're gonna change the laws about how the church can speak and what it could talk about. And then we're gonna go to the seminaries, the Bible colleges, and we're gonna start to put wealthy donors on the boards who will fund if you will go along with certain modifications to your orthodoxy. And it's done that way on every mountain. It's done that way in education as well. Incrementally, what you don't protect and steward spiritually, the devil will take.

Those gates have now become taken captive and it's harder to retake a gate once you've given it up. That is really wise. Check out the Lance Wallnau program. He also has a book, God's Chaos Code by Lance Wallnau, the shocking blueprint that reveals five keys to the destiny of nations. The Lance Wallnau show is excellent and has a new podcast out and also author of God's Chaos Code, Cyrus Trump, which is a really great book. I remember when Lance first laid out that Donald Trump was very similar to Cyrus.

I really encourage you guys to check it out. Also, we got an email here from one of our listeners. They said, Charlie, I'm resonating with Lance saying I'm a practicing Jew. The synagogue I grew up in wrapped the Torah the entire month of June in the pride flag.

So it's not just churches. And so you're spot on there, Lance. And we'll talk about that. That's pretty amazing. That one's a new one.

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If you want to save one baby or five or hundreds, the opportunity is just right there. Go to slash Kirk. Lance, just any reaction to the synagogue wrapping the Torah in the pride flag, these churches we see that do drag ceremonies. Your reaction, Lance Wallnau.

Listen, you know, I really wish we had a full-time comedy team because Babylon B is about the only place I can go to catch people to catch it. The essence of humor is when you take an unpredictable direction at the end of the punchline. And there's nothing to me. I'm 20% Ashkenazi Jew. I'm Jewish on my father's side. There's nothing to me more incongruent than, let's say, an Orthodox Jew wrapping the Torah in a pride flag. So I'm thinking where can you find greater contrast for a punchline than that? So that's when you said it, I started laughing. I don't know why I was laughing. I was thinking now that's about as incongruent as you could possibly get. But there it is. It's just, you know, it's like when they call Ben Carson, you know, a white nationalist.

There's something about these things that cracks me up and I can't figure it out. So Lance, tell us about your book, God's Chaos Code. It was originally published a couple years ago, but the truths are just as relevant today as it was then. Tell us about your book and how it applies today.

Yeah, it's very simple. You know, Chuck Bistler years ago, great, brilliant engineer turned theologian in California, said that the greatest miracle of the 21st century was that God took a people like Israel, scattered all over the world, and brought it back into their homeland after 2,000 years. And they spoke the same language. They had the same custom.

They come with the same beliefs and they pick up where they left off and the real estate was even available. And he said that what we should be looking at is every book of the Bible that speaks of what happened when they returned and what God did. And that's when I started going to the Bible and saying, wait a second, maybe there's a prophetic pattern. When Israel in 1947 came back, maybe there's a pattern to what happened to Israel and what's happening in the world and particularly to this gentile country, the United States, that has been so significant in its connection with Israel.

And that's when I was shocked. I saw that it started with Cyrus, an outsider who was brought in to protect the Jews. And it's Isaiah 45. I looked at Isaiah 45 and said, my gosh, the 45th president is the only outsider we've got. Everyone else is an evangelical.

To Christians, you got a Huckabee, you got a Cruz, you got Ben Carson. Trump comes in as the outsider and he's the Cyrus type. And then it goes on to say that when they went back, Cyrus said that God raised up Cyrus for the sake of his people. I think Americans praying for this broadcast, for those that are Christians, our desperate prayers in intercession are the only thing that stands between America and imminent self-destruction.

So it was the prayers. And so Cyrus, Isaiah the prophet said 120 years before Cyrus was born, predicted God is gonna raise up a ruler named Cyrus. He's gonna go into Babylon. He's gonna go there for my people's sake, though when he does it, he will not be someone who knows of me.

So right there, I have my argument that we can elect somebody like Trump when he was running, that he'll have an encounter with God, but God raises up sovereign vessels for the sake of his people. After Cyrus came to power, the next thing was, the focus is what you're doing, Charlie, which was the word was rebuild a national house. Rebuild a vital house for the nation. So God's command was restore the house.

Cyrus said, go back to your land, rebuild the house. And when they did that, they had a great awakening. There's your C, Cyrus.

There's your H, house. There's your A, awakening. And the purpose of the awakening was what followed right after that. Nehemiah and Ezra rise up. This is exactly the history of the Jews. They go back and they begin to rebuild the walls that were destroyed during their period of disobedience and restore the gates of influence, the 12 gates that were sieged by Babylon, the confusion that came into their country. And after that, we come to the S. They became a sovereign nation, a land where the Messiah himself would visit, fulfilling prophecy, or what Jesus says is sovereign sheep nations at the end of the age and goat nations are going to be gathered together.

Just two types of nation, those that retain their sovereignty and refuse to persecute God's people and those that bow the knee to the spirit of empire. And that's where we're at right now. It's spelled C, H, A, O, S. God is in the chaos. You also can check out where he has several interesting episodes out that I want to ask him about, including Jewish secrets Christians must learn.

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That is or download the app So, Lance, we're receiving several emails about Kim Clement. You mentioned him in your book. Talk about your time with Kim Clement and some of the, some would say, prophecies or predictions that he made towards the end of his life. Tell us about that, Lance.

Yeah, for sure. So, Tim and I traveled together and he would, he would do the prophetic ministry and then, then he would kind of turn to me to explain to people what it was he was prophesied because he, as he said, he would get the nuts but someone else had to crack them. So, he was, he said fascinating things like, for instance, before Trump came on the scene, he prophesied. He had this South African accent and he said, the spirit of the Lord says that I am dissatisfied with both parties. Now, first of all, whoever heard God being interested in politics in the first place, this is a revelation of a lot of pastors but this prophet put it this way, the spirit of the Lord says I'm dissatisfied with both parties and what I'm about to do will be, will be repulsive to the Democrats and, and positively distasteful to the Republicans. And I remember him saying that, I thought, Kim, you only have two party. I mean, independent parties don't make it to the finish line here.

So how could, how could we ever have a candidate that's repulsive to both parties or disliked by either party? But then Trump came along and it actually fulfilled, fulfilled prophecy. And then he went on to say that God was going to raise up a movement that was going to be neither this nor that, but it would be for America. It will be an American party movement. And I've often said, I think like the Tea Party and what's coming up now is the party that's for America and it's not grounded. In the, in the Uniparty, which is, he was ahead of his time.

The Uniparty about, I can tell you stories about specific words that he got with people in audiences that, that have raised their hair in their arms. But this is the part that is the most relevant to the battle we're in right now as a republic. And he had some very specific prophecy. We're actually going to try to get some of the tape here if we could do it in time. Lance Wallnau continues with us And Lance, I hear from some Christians and you talk about this here, you know, Unlocking End Time Secrets is one of the podcasts that you do on the Lance Wallnau show. I hear from some Christians, Charlie, things look so terrible. They're not falling apart.

They're falling into place. Jesus is coming next Thursday. What is the point to fight? Lance, how do you respond to Christians that emphasize eschatology to such an extent where they say, I'm done fighting. I'm done contesting for truth.

Well, that's just frankly, I don't mean to insult them because they're sincere people that would take the time to write. But what they suffer from is biblical illiteracy. Jesus said this, occupy till I come. Now, when you get words like that from a commander in chief who's leaving, departing, and he says, I'm coming back like MacArthur, I will return. And he says, meanwhile, occupied till I come. That's not the cue for you to be preoccupied with when he comes while you hide out in the basement eating soybeans and watching your favorite YouTube prophet.

So the people that are retreating from the battle of culture, I would almost predict are the very ones who Jesus warns about. There's 10 virgins when he comes back. They're all virgins. They're all believers.

They're all virgins. Only five of them were ready when he returned. Five of them had oil in their lamp. They had oil with them. Why? Because they were engaged.

The other five were sleeping. So those that want to hide out, that want to anesthetize themselves, that want to go into, and California is like the Grand Poobah, this deception. We're just not going to vote and get involved in politics because the sooner things fall apart, the sooner Jesus returns.

Well, that's not exactly right. Jesus says, occupied till I come. And then he says, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go therefore and disciple nations. Break out what I teach as a worldview. Teach other nations. The mistake we made in America is the church isolated itself, focused on its own growth, its own spiritual empowerment, and the return of Jesus, while the secular world taught. We preached and they taught. We should have done what Jesus said. Preach the gospel and teach nations. We should have been in education teaching worldview.

We should have been in economics, teaching economics. Most of the progress of civilization, people don't get this, came out of the reformation base of Europe. It came out of science.

It came out from music with Bach to Newton. These were people of faith, Charlie. These weren't the enlightened God rejectors of Harvard.

These were enlightened Christians who gave us the renaissance, the reformation, and the progress we have in America. So when I hear Christians say they don't wanna get involved with the nitty gritty of what you're doing right now, I see people that are forsaking the front lines of the battle where occupation is needed most. So let me read here, Lance, and I'd like to have you respond.

Andy Stanley wrote a book about not getting involved in politics. He writes, quote, the reaction of evangelicals to political and cultural ships in recent years revealed what they value most lurking beneath our Bible laced rhetoric. Faith claims books and sermons is a relentless drive to win, but the church is not here to win, writes Andy Stanley. By every human measure, our savior lost on purpose with a purpose. It's bizarre.

I don't really know how he could say that. And we are his body. We are not in it to win anything.

We are in it for something else entirely. That something else is what this book is about. And so he argues here that the church should not get involved at all. He's a quote, unquote, leading evangelical speaker. He article says here, quote, I wanna make sure I read this correctly and quote it correctly, that the evangelical church faces a state of emergency over politics and getting involved in politics.

Lance Wallnau, your reaction to Andy Stanley. The state of the American church faces a crises over whether or not it's going to be under the influence of these false teachers like Andy Stanley, or whether they're going to be enlightened in time to protect themselves and their children from the loss of liberty. The problem with Andy Stanley is that he doesn't that they listen to the logic of what he said, that he is evaluated, that evangelicals get engaged with political matters because of their desire to win. Well, let's say that you've got Al Qaeda trying to break into the cockpit of the plane. You and your family are on your way to a vacation, but Al Qaeda wants to crash it. Maybe winning for you is keeping Al Qaeda from being behind the controls that will crash your future and your family. This is why we engage in every battle we get into. It's out of love for the passengers of the plane. It's out of love for our children.

We aren't in it to win it. We're fighting for survival at this point. We're in the battle of the ages to keep the lights on for liberty and freedom of speech. When you've got Jordan Peterson in Ontario, Canada, having to put $40,000 a month up in legal expenses and being forced in order to retain his license as a psychiatrist to have to subject himself to social media communication training under the Trudeau government, when you have another pastor like Arthur Pulaski struggling to maybe have to go to prison because he was preaching the gospel to truckers when they were protesting, my friend Andy Stanley is out to lunch.

I feel sorry for the people that are under the influence of voices like that. The apostle Paul said that I don't run aimlessly. I don't fight aimlessly. I fight in order to score points.

And as an athlete, I keep my body under. All the metaphors of Paul were about being in it to win it. He was in it to win the crown of God's approval for a job well done.

Our job in America is to preserve the religious liberty and the truth that God has given this country before the lights go out. And if we do not occupy till he comes, the territory will be occupied by something seven times worse, perversion, communism, Marxism. Death is gonna be in our future. Is that an overstatement?

No, it's not. And it says here in First Corinthians 1557, but thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. I don't understand how Andy Stanley could write that by every human measure, our savior lost.

I mean, rising from the dead, even by human measures is like the greatest victory ever. What does he mean by that, Lance? By every human, what he's saying is that Christian, it's a pietism gone crazy. It's almost like Alzheimer's got to him, it was pietism. What happens is the idea that you're supposed to be separated from the motivation of carnal things.

This is true. We are not in it in order to gain earthly recognition or power. This is what the left and the weak evangelicals accuse us of, Charlie. They say, you guys are in a power struggle just like the left is in a power struggle.

Actually, no, that's why I use the metaphor of al-Qaeda in a plane for 9-11. What we're trying to do is we're trying to protect, we're using the God-given freedoms that we have in order to protect ourselves from the loss of those freedoms. Andy Stanley, I'm gonna say something controversial. Andy Stanley and Creflo Dollar are two of the most prominent, powerful, influential Georgia preachers we've got. Their decision to not educate and engage their congregations probably cost us Georgia.

And with that, you now have Trump struggling with his own survival, where the one case where the most deranged zip code could put him behind bars occupies. You could lay that at the foot of two pastors who subscribe to the demonic idea that Christians shouldn't care about the government mountain. Yeah, so what is Andy Stanley and the Georgia pastors done to speak out about the people that have been wrongfully indicted by Fannie Willis? Nothing.

Of course, nothing. That's such a powerful point, Lance. And I mean, some people say, oh, Charlie, you pick on Andy Stanley too much. No, he picks on the truth too much, and so he deserves it. And Lance, about a minute, react to this, that if you are in the ministry and you're abusing the holy, you should not be in the ministry. You can go find something else to do.

So tell us about this. React to that, Lance. If you're in the ministry, you should be held to a higher standard, Lance Wallnau. Yeah, so we that teach the word should be held to a higher scrutiny.

And certainly the thing with Andy Stanley, I was thinking about he's not in it to win it, so he's gonna choose it to lose it. Nobody that is going to get behind the pulpit today can afford to go there unless they have courage. And that means you can't be worried about losing people or losing money. But I can almost promise you, every pastor that is articulate, well-informed, and properly motivated will replace the people he loses with actually strongly committed patriot Christians who will build your church. It's the best church growth strategy in the world right now is to have a perspective and articulate it strongly because the church is looking for leadership.

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For a limited time, you'll receive 50% off the Giza Dream sheets, marking prices down as low as $29.98, depending on the size. Go to, promo code Kirk. That is, promo code Kirk, including the MyPillow 2.0 mattress topper, MyPillow kitchen towel sets, and so much more. Call 800-875-0425 or go to, use promo code Kirk,, promo code Kirk. Lance, I want to give you an opportunity. Plug your show, your podcast, Lance. You've been very generous with your time. You've been a great friend. Tell people how they can support you, your program, and the content that you're putting out. Lance Wallnau. Well, thank you so much, Charlie. The Lance Wallnau show has around a weird 11 million downloads or something so far.

We just started like two years ago. The real challenge for me is, I don't know how you handle this. Well, I think you do it well, but I have a difficulty because I can't get on secular radio because I'm too Christian. I can't get on Christian radio because I'm too political. You're the only guy I know that's been able to navigate the two and get radio stations, so I should probably work with you more. But the beautiful thing about the show we've got is I get to talk about whatever I want to talk about because I've got 200,000 subscribers. They took me off of YouTube on, and I made the decision. I'm going to build a podcast where I don't edit what I say for fear of what censors don't approve of. I agree with Tucker Carlson. Say the thing they don't want you to talk about, and I believe the awakening that is in America right now is going to be driven by Christian engagement, but it's going to ultimately become a populist movement. That's the focus of our show, Charlie.

You can get it on any kind of a platform. For the old timers, I still do a lot of Facebook videos because I do these late night rants at around 11 o'clock that my studio team can't keep up with. That's when I ventilate and go through my Gestalt therapy. You guys have got to check out the Lance Wallnau show. In closing here, Lance, I want you to address this.

It's kind of a two-part question. Charlie and Lance, I love everything you're saying, but my pastor won't budge. He says we only preach the gospel. Should I try to confront him, counsel him, challenge him, leave the church? We get this question all the time, Lance.

I'm sure you do too. Should I leave the church? Should I find a better church? I try to change the church because it's one thing to talk to pastors. We're trying to do this at TP USA faith, but also in the congregants. Your reaction, Lance, as we kind of close out this discussion, how they should handle this.

Yes, well, two things. First of all, understand that, I hate to say this, but the church is a little bit like a political institution. Who is the pastor's primary client?

Who is he trying to keep happy? He's got elders. He's got a board of directors or a nonprofit board. He's got leadership on his eldership team, whoever brought him in, if he's the next pastor after the last guy. So the way that you have to approach this is if you're not a good member in standing, your opinion is pretty much useless. You're not a giving member, a participating member.

If you're not an influential member, then you're just an opinion. So what you want to do is make sure you've got a good relationship with the pastor and the church by investing in it. The second thing is don't go alone. Your one single voice isn't powerful, but if you can get two or three other people to join with you, that gets a pastor's attention. If you get one businessman, one giver, here's their economics, one significant tither or giver to the church whose wife agrees with you, get with that couple. If they will support you in saying, we don't want you to change the gospel, we want you to address questions that we're hearing all the time. And then you can look at Barna's list of questions, which 90% of the people in the church want to have answers to. They want to know how does the Bible apply to economics? How does the Bible apply to race theory? How does the Bible apply to sex and gender?

And if the pastor understands that you've got influence, you've got someone in business behind you, and that you're asking them to be informed on things that 90% of the church wants to hear about, I would say you've got more leverage in that conversation than just saying, why don't you talk about abortion or something like that? Lance Wallnau, everybody. Check it out,

He does an amazing job. Lance, thanks so much. Talk to you soon. God bless you, Charlie. Always good to see you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at

Thank you so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to The United States Constitution guarantees every American fundamental rights and protection of life, liberty, and property. Salem is celebrating our founding document with a special offer, a 1953 Omen U.S. Constitution lithograph. Understand the value of these lithographs as we know the story. A master lithographer, immigrant named Theodore Omen, came to this country to find the American dream. 70 years ago in 1953, Omen printed a limited number of these exceptional Constitution lithographs.

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