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And now here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. You've got questions. We've got answers. Any question of any kind that relates in any way to any subject that I write about, talk about, that ties in with anything that's ever come up on the Line of Fire. Go ahead.
Phone lines are open. Glad to hear from you. You can just be curious. You can be a seeker. You can be a mocker.
Wherever. 866-348-7884. Now, if you want to talk to me about subjects of which I know nothing, well, then I have nothing to say, so better to call those that do know those things. But what I do know, I can help you with. All right. We go to the phones.
Let's start with Lewis in Las Vegas, Nevada. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hey, how you doing, Dr. Brown?
Doing very well, thank you. Okay, my question is, I read your book, by the way, Why We Don't Believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, and I'm also a post-tribber now, not because of your book, but that just hammered it home for me. My question is, I was listening to Jack Van Impey's sermon, where he was quoting early Church Fathers, because the argument is, before the 1800s, nobody really taught that position. But he rattled off, like, about 15 people prior to the even 1600s that he said taught a pre-trib rapture, like Polycarp, Appiah, Victorinus, and I was just wondering what your take is on that. With all respect to Jack Van Impey and the amount of material in the Bible that he memorized, that's 100% false.
Absolutely false. When you read any of these quotes in larger context, you'll see they're not about a pre-trib rapture. You'll see that the early Church leaders consistently were expecting an anti-Christ, were expecting tribulation.
There's not a hint of it. In the passages that allegedly teach that, when you dig a little deeper and you read the larger passage, you see they're saying quite the contrary. Now, you might find someone here or there that says something that seems to hint that they may have believed part of the system, but the whole dispensational system, the whole idea that this is the Church age, and we're in a parenthesis, and then when the Church is taken out, God deals with Israel again. The whole system, the whole pre-trib system, and it has to work as a system.
There is no pre-trib rapture without the whole larger system. There's not a hint of it, and you don't find that until the 1800s. I had a dialogue with Professor Mark Hitchcock on the air. We were supposed to do a debate. I was asked to debate on Jan Markell's radio show, She's Very Strongly Pre-Trib, and we agreed to do it, but then I was told she thought it would be too technical and decided not to do it.
So I had him on not to debate but to discuss, and whatever quotes he could pull up beginning in the 1600s, really, still none of them spoke of a whole system that was the dispensational system in any way. I can't off the top of my head tell you which website to go to, but when I did online research a few years ago and went through some of these quotes, because I was told this also in my pre-trib days, I was also told that this was anticipated by early Church leaders. So I began to study more, and then a couple years back, Doug again, and like I said, when you look at the larger context, absolutely not, and most importantly, the dispensational system without which a pre-trib rapture makes no sense was not taught by anyone until the 1800s for sure.
Okay, one other quick thing. My wife has a friend who is a new believer, just like when I was, and I'm sure you were, and we were led astray by the pre-trib teaching. She's constantly sending my wife videos to support her view by people like Markel, like you just mentioned, Jack Hibbs, et cetera, and I keep telling her, well here, send this video, and I sent your link to her today, why we don't believe in a pre-trib rapture from your YouTube video. Now she doesn't want to send any of post-trib material to her friend, because she said her friend had asked her, you know, please don't send anything like that anymore, but her friend keeps sending her pre-trib videos and materials, so I'm telling my wife that you are called to be able to shed light on situations with people, and she says, well not if they tell you that you're not to send it. What is your take on sharing the truth on secondary issues like that?
Right, so three things. First, it's got to be mutual. In other words, if this woman says don't send me anything, but I'm going to send you stuff, then your wife should politely say either don't send me anything, or if you send me something, I'll watch it if you watch what I send.
It's got to be reciprocal. Otherwise, let's drop it. Either let's drop it, or let's both watch each other's things and critique and learn. That's number one.
Number two, there are a lot of things that it's good to do if the door is open to do. In other words, I don't feel it's my role to go around correcting everybody all the time. If I'm speaking at a conference, and three of the speakers at the conference have a different perspective on a secondary issue, when I get up to speak, it's like, I'm not there for that. I'm there for something else. I'll address it to something else. But if it's someone, if the door is open, if it's someone that I've got a relationship with, and I feel there's the open door to do it, then sure, this is an important issue.
But it's got to be with an open door or by invitation. Otherwise, we don't just go around telling everyone what we believe and what's right and wrong. The last thing, though, and I don't know this woman you're speaking of, but often, because this is how it was with me and others in our church initially, when we realized that pre-trib was not taught in the Bible, it's very traumatic. Because for some people, I don't know why, but it's an incredibly sacred doctrine, and if you mess with it, it's almost like you're messing with the whole Bible.
I mean, you have no idea the vitriol that we got for writing the book, which is fine. I mean, we knew it would come, but you're not saved or of the devil, you're false prophets, you're false teachers. We understand that we can have different views about the end times without dividing. We can be in the same room with 20 Christian leaders, and we've got lots of different views about the end times, and we don't divide over that. But I heard about a pre-trib rapture before I was even saved. In other words, one of the very first things is my friends were talking about this church they were going to. They were talking about a pre-trib rapture, and all this stuff's gonna happen, and wow, and then I got saved. I just thought that was gospel. I thought that was part of the gospel. So that's the thing.
Really pray just for the full blessing of God in your wife's friend's life, and ask, why is this such a sensitive issue? And then agree, either we both drop it for every video you send me, I send you. Let's just be fair. All right, God bless. Appreciate it. 866-348-7884.
Let us go over to Ron in Ohio. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. I've been listening to you off and on here as I go and visit people, and my question is, we understand, you know, at zero we started counting our years, one, two, three, now we're in 2022. But how did they know when to start counting backwards to end up at zero? So, you know, there's the story about an archaeologist who found a coin dated 2 BC. It's obviously a joke, because nobody knew that they were in 2 BC, right? And when Jesus was born, nobody said, oh, this is the zero year, everybody, this is the zero year. So it's later that history in the West is divided, or through much of the world, is divided from BC, before Christ, to Ano Domini, year of the Lord. Now, the first thing is, there are evidences from several centuries after the time of Jesus that the custom began, but the actual count that we go by is, what, a thousand years or more after the time of Jesus, and it's slightly off. It's about three, four years off, so, you know, technically, from the time of the birth of Jesus, we're in year maybe 2018 or 2019, or that's going to be debated. But it was just at a certain point, okay, there has been a shift, and now let's recognize it, so let's try to compute when he was born, so everything before that is BC, everything after that is AD.
In Jewish circles, aside from 7K to year 5782, or, you know, something like that, in Jewish circles, you refer to BCE and CE, before the common era and common era, because you don't like to say before Christ and year of the Lord. But it's obviously a custom that begins several centuries afterwards, and then the official count comes sometime after that, and it's slightly off. Okay. All right.
So they were just counting backwards then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In other words, okay, well, here's the thing. You have all kinds of other dating. It's not like people had no dating. They dated to years of kings. You would coordinate it with one particular sort of founding of an empire. So the ancient world, they had lots of chronologies.
So what you have to do now is compare. Okay, this one puts it this year. This one uses a different time. Like if I say in the first year of President Biden, well, that's 2021, right? If I say in the third year of Donald Trump, that's 2019. So we can use different types of years. This is 260 years from the founding of America, you know, whatever the numbers are. So we can do that. So then you look at all the different chronologies you have, and then you figure out, okay, so now we can like level them out, put them on the same map.
And then from there, yeah, you count back to when Jesus would have been born, and then from there, you go backwards in the other direction. All right, thank you for the call. 866-34-TRUTH. Let us go over to Christian.
Also in Ohio, welcome to the line of fire. Yes, how you doing, Dr. Bruh? Doing well. Good to hear from you. Thank you.
Good to hear from you too. I want to start off by saying I am a Christian, so this is not me trying to, you know, come with, you know, bad things about the Bible or nothing like that. But just my years being a Christian, always found it kind of hard trying to, you know, reconcile the Old Testament, you know, version of God, and the New Testament version of God. I hate to put it like that, but in the Old Testament, you got God commanded certain things, you know, kill everyone, keep versions, stuff like that. You know, the New Testament God, and it seemed very different.
So can you please kind of like shine some light on that, on how to go about putting those two things together? Yeah, and Christian, you are one of many, excuse me, many, many, many that's asked this identical question. What I want to show you is that really the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament. There are just different emphases, but I want to show you that when we come back, so stay right here. We've got one phone line open if you want to call right now, 866-348-7884, and all of our friends on our two new stations in Ohio, we are so glad to have you as our listeners. We'll be right back. This is how we rise up. It's our resistance.
You can't resist us. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-344.
Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. Hey, friends, how about I put right in your hands a ton of information that we've compiled over the years. Literally, you pick up your cell phone, and there it is in your hands, our gift to you. How about that? So do it. It's here. Download our app. After years, we finally got things approved through Apple.
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Would you partner with us and tell them, hey, download this free app, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, Apple, Android. Okay, so Christian, let me first give you an analogy about God of Old Testament, God of New Testament. Let's say that your dad is an army sergeant and he's a drill sergeant, right? So he is a certain way among the soldiers that he's training and getting into shape.
Let's also say that he treats your mom like she is a princess, that he is the sweetest, kindest man. Now, it's the same man, but the soldiers are seeing one side of him and your wife is seeing another side, right? So in the Old Testament, God is constantly dealing with Israel's disobedience and is constantly disciplining people and is constantly bringing judgment. But in the midst of it, he's constantly affirming, I am slow to anger.
I am quick to show mercy. Just verses, I'm going to put some together from the Old Testament. As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our sins from us. He has compassion on us as a father has compassion on his children. He's like a better than a nursing mother who might one day forget her child, but God will never forget us. That he delights to show mercy, that he casts our sin into the depths of the sea, that he's compassionate and gracious.
That he's the father of the widow, the husband of the widow and the father of the orphan. These are descriptions of the God of the Old Testament, but because he's so constantly dealing with Israel's sin, and because there's a one-time event of driving out the Canaanites, you have a lot of judgment, judgment, judgment. Even there, God waits hundreds of years before he brings judgment on the Canaanites. He has to wait until the sin reaches a certain level, then he judges. On the flip side, the main emphasis of the New Testament is God showing mercy to the whole world through his son.
God graciously saying to the whole world, I will forgive you for everything you've done through my son. So that is the greater emphasis, hence you see that side of God more. But, if you think of it, we pray for the Lord's return, and 2 Thessalonians 1 says that he will return in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those that don't know God. Jesus talks about hell more than all of the Old Testament texts combined, and about the fire of hell that is waiting for the rebel. Not only so, if you read the words of rebuke of Jesus to the churches in Asia Minor in Revelation 2 and 3, one of them he says, I'll throw you in a sick bed and kill your children because of disobedience. So, those judgments are there. The Corinthians, many were sick and some had died because they didn't partake of the Lord's Supper in a righteous way, in a worthy way I should say. And because of that judgment came on them.
Ananias and Sapphira dropping dead, these examples like that. So, it's the same God, it's just a different emphasis that you see more in the Old Testament because he's constantly correcting Israel, and an emphasis on mercy and grace even more in the New Testament because he's reaching out through the cross. But I'd recommend reading through Hebrews, Christian, because that's dealing so much with Jewish believers and those issues. And look at the warnings there, look at the God that's presented there, so this extraordinary mercy, this extraordinary new covenant that comes, and yet severe judgment for those who reject it. And then go from there and read Psalm 103, which extols the mercy and grace and goodness of God in the Old Testament. And you'll really see things are a lot closer than you realize. And again, just two different sides of the same spiritual coin, alright? Okay. Alright, thank you for the call and the question.
And again, it's a question that many people ask, which means that's how it feels to many as they're reading the Bible, that's how it feels. 866-348-7884. Let's go to El Salvador, Isaac, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, thank you Dr. Brown. You're welcome. Well, my question concerns to the Mechanic Prophecy of Guide 2, and for the record, I am a believer in Jesus, I'm a believer in Yeshua. And I have read, I have gone through the Answering Jewish Objection, the second and the third volume, and it was just amazing, Dr. Brown, thank you so much for those books.
I'm going to buy the fourth and the fifth, and I'm sure it's going to be great. And only letting you know that here in San Sal, the lies that you have shared on those issues are being shared, so I just wanted to comment on that. Praise God.
Because you have been such a blessing to us. Okay, so I'm completely sure that Daniel 9, the 70-week prophecy, has to be fulfilled before the destruction of the Temple, I'm totally confident on that. But I have some doubts concerning Guide 2, and if I were to be also a Mechanic Prophecy that has to be fulfilled before 70, I will be glad to do it, but I just have one doubt. So the verse 3, who of you is left to sow this house in its form and glory? How does it look to you now?
Does it not seem to you like nothing? So it seems like for the context, you know, there are some people that say that the glory of the house has to do with what the prophet says, right? The silver is mine and the gold is mine, the glory of the Lord Almighty. And the prophet asks some questions regarding the visible, the material glory that the Second Temple will have. So how does it look to you? Does it not seem to you as left to sow this house? How do we know that the prophecy does not refer to the rebuilding of the Temple that Herod the Great and Josephus and the Talmud and Baba Batra, whoever that doesn't see the Temple didn't see a marvelous building in his life? So it seems like, at least to me, that the Orthodox friends have a legitimate case, right? Because it seems to be talking about the material wealth of the Second Temple. So, Isaac, you articulated it very well, and I do treat that in objection 2.1 in volume 1, as you know. So here's the funny thing. The last time I thought about this exact issue, this exact issue, was about 40 minutes ago, driving up in my car before the show started, while listening to the Bible on audio.
I just listened to Haggai, literally. I was saying to myself, try to hear it through those eyes. Try to hear it through those ears, see it through those eyes. So there's no question that part of what it's talking about is the physical building. When God says, I'll fill this place with glory, right, and then the silver and gold are mine, there's no question that that has to tie into it. The physical beautifying of it, without question.
Here are the two problems, as I outline in the book. First, every time that the phrase fill with glory occurs, having to do with either the tabernacle, like Exodus 40, or the temple, like 2 Chronicles 5, it's referring to God's very presence in the temple. So the words fill with glory always are used with regard to the tangible presence of God there.
The previous times they're used was just a few times. So that language is going to be there. Secondly, why does the Talmud raise the question of how this is fulfilled? Why does the Talmud list all the things that were in the first temple that weren't in the second? Why do they say the Shekhinah wasn't there, the divine fire wasn't there, and then the tablets of the law, and the Urim and the Tummim, and the six different things that were in the first temple are not in the second. Why did some of the Talmudic rabbis say that the difference, the greater glory, is that the second temple stood for longer than the first temple? In other words, if it was so self-evident that it only meant the physical rebuilding, then why are the Talmudic rabbis mentioning everything that wasn't in the first, saying, in that sense then, how could the glory be greater? Well, then it's because it lasted longer, and then why did some even speculate, like Yitzchak Troki, who was a Karaite, but a strong polemicist, and the rabbis have since used his reading, their faith strengthened, as an anti-missionary treatise, why did he say, no, it's talking about a third temple? This house, it just means a third temple, so why is it that the rabbis are speculating in the Talmud, that the most famous anti-Christian Jewish polemicist, a few hundred years ago, he says it means a third temple, but because the glory has to be associated with God. To fill a temple with glory, if it only means physical structure, then what kind of glory is that?
It's just an ornate building. So, those are my reasons. Stay right here, we'll chat briefly on the other side of the break, and then Full Nautic Jam will get to every one of you. Stay right here. This is how we rise up. It's our resistance.
You can't resist us. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the Line of Fire. Yeah, so, get the app, download Apple, Android, ASK Dear Brown, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, that's the name of the app, and just scroll through, we've got our Consider This videos, our Real Messiah material, all the articles, you just click on it to listen live there during the show each day.
Listen to past broadcasts right there at your fingertips, and then of course, explore everything that's on the website, askdr.brown.org, ASKdearbrown.org. So, back to Isaac and El Salvador. So, just to summarize, number one, it's impossible to separate the idea of filling the house with glory from God's presence based on previous usage having to do with the dedication, the tabernacle dedication of the Temple. It would be unthinkable that those things are absent, but because it's physically beautified, oh wow, it's filled with glory, that's the first thing. Second thing, if it was so self-evident that it had to mean just the beautifying done by Herod, then why did the rabbis discuss all the things that were missing from it and speculate, well, maybe it means it's going to endure longer, which is not associated with God's glory either.
And then third, why is it that the primary anti-Christian polemicist whose book was used for centuries by traditional Jews, why did he argue it has to be a third temple if it was so self-evidently fulfilled? So, the biblical text indicates to me there's more going on, and I cannot accept it is only the physical. And remember, they would have seen the fire coming down. They would have known about the cloud where the priest couldn't minister, so as it's being dedicated, that's also visible.
It's not only physically less, but where's the presence of God that marked these former buildings or the former tent? So that's why I still argue in that direction, Isaac. Okay, that's interesting. I just have a little follow-up on that, Dr. Brown. You know, when it comes to fill the house with the glory, it's remarkable that every single issue, right?
I think that the last resort that maybe an Orthodox friend has is to say, hey, you know what, that's true, but remember that similarity doesn't have the last word. It's context, right? For example, in Isaiah 53, or Isaiah, for that matter, there are a number of references in which the servant of the Lord refers to Israel, but when it comes to Isaiah 53, for me, it's clear that it doesn't refer to Israel. And it doesn't matter how many times before the term refers to Israel. Right, so to respond, number one, we have specific language used, specific ways only in these contexts. The only time you will see fill with glory used in regards to this building is with these dedications and presence of God.
But just push back. If it's so obvious, why didn't the Talmudic rabbis see it? If it's so absolutely obvious, then why did the Talmudic rabbis debate it and raise the very questions that people like me are raising? You know, why is that if it's so self-evident?
So these are totally fair questions. You know, one rabbi pushed back and says, well, those say filled with my glory, this just is filled with glory. To me, that was obviously nitpicking when you look at the context and all the verses that I list, which you're familiar with. So it's a fair argument, but it just breaks down. And if it was so self-evident, then why is it that the Talmudic rabbis didn't all see it?
And why is it that polemicists have it? And also remember, in this place, I'll give peace, I'll establish peace. Well, this was the temple of war. This was the temple of foreign domination. Unless the Prince of Peace came himself, where is it? So very fair, excellent, accurate questions, but I believe there's a good pushback. And remember, it's part of a three-fold cord.
Even what follows, the prophecy about Zerubbabel, is ultimately an end-time prophecy about the messianic king. Hey, I'm going to run to some other calls, but thank you and love to hear from you again. And thanks for shining the light there in El Salvador. Very much appreciated. 866-34-TRUTH.
Let's go to our buddy Eddie in Connecticut. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, how are you doing today?
Doing great. Dr. Brown, tempers flared this week in the study because it was on your topic, too, with the gifts of the Spirit, the show you had this week. So I said, we have a couple people there that speak in tongues, and I said, can I ask you a question? Corinthians says that when you do that in church, you should do it by two or three, you know, unless there's an interpreter in present, that's when you can do it. I said, how do you know there's an interpreter present?
How would you know that? People go to churches today, there's no sign-up interpreter here today. How do people know that speak in tongues, 300 people? Hey, I think there's an interpreter in here. I don't know, maybe there's not.
But it says, don't do it. Ah, but how do you know that there's none? Because nobody interprets. In other words, you feel led by the Holy Spirit, right? To deliver a message, because it's not talking about a bunch of people praying together, it's talking about delivering a message. Right, if you're all worshiping, you've got 300 people worshiping, and you're worshiping in English, and the person next to you is worshiping in Spanish, and the person next to you is in Portuguese, and the person behind you is worshiping in tongues, and you're all worshiping God and praising him out loud together.
That's not the issue. The issue is, if you're now, okay, it's quiet, and you feel moved on by the Lord, and you deliver a message in tongues, and there's no interpreter, okay, then everybody else, don't deliver messages in tongues. In other words, you find out. It's not, even if you read 1 Corinthians 14, right, you do it, if there's no interpreter, okay, then let's be silent. You know, you speak in tongues, someone else speaks in tongues, and then you wait, and there's no interpretation, well, then you don't speak.
But, here's the other side to it, Eddie. In general, you're in a congregation, you're not just showing up there, right? You're there, you know the people, the gifts, the assumption is that you're in different houses, you know, with your house church meetings there, you have 15 people, 20 there, you'd know. You'd know this one interprets regularly, like churches I've been part of over the years, you knew this one has a prophetic gift, and if they have a word, you know, really listen carefully because they, you know, they're really hearing from the Lord. Or, that this one, if someone speaks in tongues, that this one normally interprets, so you do know. But if it's a context where you don't know, then if there's tongues and no interpretation, okay, so, no more messages in tongues in this meeting. No big deal, there's no big deal.
It's just like if, you know, you shout it out, praises to God in Spanish, and nobody translates, it's like, okay, we got the Spanish interpreter here, I'll just keep that to myself. Hey, thanks for the question, glad to hear you guys are still part of the same Bible study, with all of the holy sparks flying. Alright, 866-34-TRUTH, let's go to Justin in Tennessee, thanks for calling the line of fire.
Yes sir, thank you so much. Yes, me and my wife about two years ago, I'm going to give a little bit of context before I ask my question. About two years ago, we really found the Lord, and we've just been diving deep, you know, just learning from different people. So, we prayed to be called, you know, to a church home, because during COVID and stuff like that, we were watching online church.
Well, at my restaurant where I work at, a gentleman came in, he started to speak things into me, and I knew this man was different. So, we ended up at a church that was about 45 minutes an hour away. Well, we've been going there, I was still doing a little bit of church online, just learning about things like deliverance, and I know, and how it's kind of a sore topic from what I've been learning in the Christian community.
I didn't even know what cessation this was, because it's, you know, like I said, I've only been going after God for two years and trying to learn, but anyway. So, we go to this church, and we've been going to this church, and deliverance is not really much talked about. When we've talked to other people at the church about deliverance, how to look a bit hokey to them, a little bit, like it's a non-denominational church. Well, we started to look into this church that was five minutes down the road, who preached on things like deliverance. So, we decided, hey, we'll give this church a try. We went in the church, and then it was a little bit different. I started to see, you know, things like speaking in tongues during service, where she would, and it's fivefold. So, it's two head apostles, one being a woman and a man, and the woman is like the main person that preaches.
So, she's speaking in tongues as she's doing the sermon, and there's something like a towel that people, like when people come up to the altar, and they're being prayed over, and if they're slaying the spirit, they like lay a towel over them. We weren't really quite familiar about that either, but I just, when we worship at this new church, it's just so pure. It's something like I've never felt before in my life, and we're kind of stuck in between, because, you know, should we stay at this one church, or should we go to the church where we may feel the spirit more? But I guess the question would be is, you know, how do I know which church to go to? Me and my wife want to be planted in the right place, but, you know, I've heard you talk about, you know, strange fire. I heard like just holding the charismatic community accountable, like we've been prayed over at this new church, and they've done things like they would kind of put their hands on our head and kind of tilt us, like maybe tilt us down or tilt us back to where we're about to stumble a little bit, but I don't know if that's disingenuous or if it's on purpose.
Yeah, Justin, these are great questions. Okay, the first thing is people, excuse me, go to the restaurant where you work because they like the restaurant, right? And there are different restaurants that different people prefer, and it's not like God's going to call someone, okay, you go to this church, you go to this church, you go to this church, as much as based on our background, based on our understanding of scripture, could be where we came to faith, it could be where the family members go, but ultimately we have to examine everything based on scripture, right? So the fact that if they pray for people and someone falls down, if someone's pushed, I don't think normally people are trying to push, but they just like, they're expecting certain things or they may do it unconsciously, but the Holy Spirit, the goal is not to fall. Anyway, the goal is not to fall when someone's praying for you, right? But throwing a towel on someone is just, especially with ladies where you wear dresses more and skirts and things, so you just don't want someone to be uncovered, that's just a modesty thing that's become like a custom, you know?
It's not a doctrinal thing, it's not even secondary, it's like a thousand miles down the line, it's just someone's prayed for, their shirt goes up as they fall to the ground, it's just modesty, you don't want to show the midriff, you know, unintentionally. So what I would do is, excuse me, keep reading the word, you and your wife just keep reading through the scriptures, and as you're in the church, if you're encountering God, if you're growing in the Lord, if you're growing closer to him, you're reinforced in living a godly life, you want to reach the lost even more, great, whichever church it is, and then keep comparing things to scripture, and you're always going to have a little difference here and there, unless you're the one leading the church, in which it'll just be what you believe, but otherwise say, okay, we'll go here for a while, whichever it is, let's keep praying, see how this is affecting our overall spiritual life, let the secondary things be secondary, let's keep comparing things to the word, and if it's lining up and we're growing and we're being edified, great. If not, let's pray about somewhere else, and then you look in search.
It's not necessarily that it's only one place where you can grow. May God guide you. God bless. This is how we rise up It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.
Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us. By the way, I would love to talk at great, great length to so many callers, but we do our best to answer as clearly as we can, within the time constraints we can, while getting to as many as possible. You can always reach out to us further through the website AskDrBrown.org.
Just click on Contact. All right, let us go to Jeremy in Wilton, Maine. Welcome to the Line of Fire.
Yes, hello. I have a question about cessationism, and it's really kind of strange to me. The church that I go to, they are largely cessationists. Well, I did have a sort of a spiritual encounter, and so when I came to myself, I asked the question, Well, why does my congregation largely believe in cessationism when, you know, I've had this encounter with the Lord, I believe, and I don't believe it was from anything else, you know, because I prayed about it. And so the question is largely, you know, I still believe that the gifts of the Spirit do still exist, and I just want to know is why do most congregations or denominations, so to speak, they still believe that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased when you have verses such as, you know, Jesus is the same today, yesterday, forever, or you could even say the same thing for God being the same yesterday, today, and forever, you know.
Yeah, so let me do my best to answer. There are many, many verses. To me, the whole New Testament points in this direction. So with all respect to my cessationist friends, I do not believe in any way you can build a case for cessationism based on the Bible. Because if you just read through the Bible, read through the New Testament over and over, and you were locked in a room alone, you would walk out expecting to see miracles of healing, expecting to see tongues prophesy. I mean, Paul is quite explicit to earnestly desire the gifts, to earnestly desire prophecy, to not forbid tongues.
You should be laying hands on the sick regularly and seeing healing, according to James Jacob, the fifth chapter. So, and worldwide, there are far more Protestant believers today that are believing the gifts and power of the Spirit than those that we would just identify as cessationist evangelicals. In America, the numbers would be different, but most of the largest churches in America are probably not cessationist, and certainly for a good 30, 40 years now, the churches growing most rapidly all around the world are not cessationist. But generally speaking, the reason that many are some fine, devoted, godly Christians, people who love God, love the Word, the reason that they're cessationist tends to be one of two main reasons.
One was, excuse me, bad experience. That either they were in a charismatic church and they got burned. They were told God's going to heal your baby and tragically the child died.
Or they had all these prophecies spoken over them and they acted on them and they weren't real prophecies. Or the pastor got into all kinds of weird doctrines. So, one thing is bad experience, or even watching some, you know, TV preacher, unhinged TV preacher that's charismatic, like, this guy's a weirdo.
So, one is bad experience, and I've had many, many cessationists tell me that's the issue for them, bad experience. The other is, they were raised in churches that believe this. This is what they were always taught. So, just like God brought the children of Israel out of Egypt, that was a one-time event. God raised Jesus from the dead. That was a one-time event. So, the outpouring of gifts, that was a one-time event to establish the church and that it's established, and the word is established, we move on. Of course, I don't believe that. But you kind of read it the same way.
That's all back then. And because you've never seen it in your own church and you're told it doesn't happen, well, then you just assume it's not for today anymore. You know, if you're reading the Bible, the rain used to come down and it used to look pink.
You know, and you say, okay, well, I've never seen pink rain. I guess it's not for today. So, it's kind of self-confirming. And those are the main reasons, but because the Holy Spirit's being poured out in so many ways, and so many have been healed and have been touched, and because the word is so overwhelmingly clear about the continuation of these things for today, that less and less and less people are cessationists, which is a good thing. Again, fine people, godly people, but the Holy Spirit's just moving too powerfully, and even more important, the word's just too clear on this. So, those are the main reasons, Jeremy. And if that's in the church where you are, sir, and there's a conflict, you want to honor the leaders, always honor the leaders, never disrespect, never be argumentative, which it doesn't sound like you would be. And if you're still at home there and you can grow, great.
Otherwise, find a church with others who believe that these things continue until today, while blessing your friends who differ. Hey, thank you for the call, Jeremy. I very much appreciate it.
Let us go to Joseph in Rancho Cucamonga, California. Welcome to the Line of Fire. How you doing, Dr. Brown?
Doing well. You know, talking about cessation and all that, and falling down, I had a spinal cord injury, I was going to share with this person, and I went to see two healing things, and those times, they didn't touch me, I went flying on my back. You think a man with a broken neck, a metal on his neck, and can't feel he's going to fly on the ground? No, no, I didn't get healed, but my friend did. You know, I just wanted to share that right now.
So that stuff is real. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, yeah, let me just say this. I've prayed for probably tens of thousands of people, and seen the power of God touch people dramatically, and have literally seen people catapulted ten feet, get up, change, tell me how God changed them, and how they got set free from something. Yeah, so I know absolutely the reality of what God does, and may he bring healing to you as well.
But yes, go ahead with your question. Okay, the other question was about the red heifers, you know, I heard this one pastor talk, and he's saying, now when these people tell you to give money to fund a new temple, he goes, thousands of red heifers are born every year, so don't let them get you all hyped up about building this third temple. That third temple is going to be for the Antichrist, and he's going to sit in that temple, not Jesus. When he comes back, he'll build the temple where he'll, you know, do the sacrifices. But, and then he says, and anyway, you can't sacrifice a calf, it's got to be a red heifer, and in true time, that calf can get unblemished. You know, so what were your thoughts on that, about, you know, like, I think you were talking earlier about that. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so this has come up in the last few weeks. I absolutely agree with your pastor, we are not giving money to build the third temple.
That is not what I'm doing. And if it is built, as much as there'll be splendor and it'll be amazing and all of this, it will still confirm to many traditional Jews that Jesus is not needed, that God has restored the blood sacrifices and so on. So, if there is a third temple that will be built before Jesus returns, which I believe will be the case, it's ultimately going to be something that will lead to deception first, before the recognition of who the Messiah is. And, yeah, if we're reading 2 Thessalonians right, then an Antichrist will sit in it one time and betray the Jewish people, if we're understanding these prophecies right. The reason that there was excitement about five red heifers that were unblemished was because it was five and at this point they were unblemished.
So, you're thinking, okay, you got a better chance of one of them living long enough so they can then be sacrificed and then burned into ashes, then the ashes mixed with water, so you have water purification. So, as I've said before, personally it is a non-issue to me. It has absolutely zero significance to me.
I'm not looking for it, watching for it. However, because many in Israel, especially key rabbis and those involved with a plan to build the third temple, because for them it is very important and for them they're talking more and more about the Messiah coming or the Messiah being revealed. That's why it's of interest to me, because it's of interest to my friends in Israel. But personally, no, I've never looked at this in the latest news.
I've never paid any attention to it. And if there's going to be a third temple built, we'll know. There's going to be a whole lot of stuff that's going to happen before that can even begin. But if this is another step towards it, it just means we're getting closer to the end of the age. But I've been hearing about stuff like this for decades, so my end, I don't even think about it. But because it's of interest to some religious Jews in Israel and some friends of mine, Orthodox Jews in Israel, so because it's of interest to them and they talk more about the Messiah, therefore it is of interest to me. Would I give a dime towards it?
No, absolutely not. Hey, thank you for the call. All right, I'm out of time, but Joseph, your question about Hebrews 6, 4 through 6, I don't know that this is your question necessarily, but it is a normal question. It is to indicate that if someone falls away, they could never come back. Because the whole Bible, beginning to end, is constantly calling people back, backsliders to return, the parable of the lost sheep, lost coin, lost son, the prodigal son, the end of James, Jacob, the fifth chapter, if one of you turns away and someone turns them back, they've saved a soul from death and covered a multitude of sins. My understanding is, this is written in particular to Jewish people, Jewish believers who have thought that they could go back to Judaism, reject the Messiah, and there was still sacrifice and repentance, and it's saying, no, as long as you are in that state, you are crucifying the Son of God afresh, and there is no repentance, and there is no sacrifice for you. So the only way back is to come back and renounce that.
That's how I understand it. Noah, others, sorry I couldn't get to your questions. Remember to download the app, you get a ton of answers there as well. Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, ASK Dear Brown Ministries, on Apple or Android. Have an awesome weekend. All of you friends in the Concord, North Carolina area, join us for our missions conference, starting tonight. Another program powered by the Truth Network.
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