Open Line for Critics; A Pro-Life Update; and How Good Were the Good Old Days?

Well, we're going to open the phones to critics today, to those who differ with me. Also, I want to talk about how good were the good old days in America and more on Russia and Trump. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Well, thanks, friends, for joining us today on the line of fire. I decided to try to do this again. Yeah, I've got a lot of things I want to talk to you about spiritually, culturally, even politically. A lot of things going on, a lot to talk about as your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution, but. I thought I'd give it a shot again and post on Facebook, post on Twitter, and I'll give the invitation here.

that if you differ with me If you're a critic. Theologically, spiritually, culturally, morally, politically, When it comes to Israel, when it comes to Islam, when it comes to faith in general, anything that I stand for that you differ with. It can be within the body, within the family. Those are fellow believers, and you have a difference, or you can totally disagree with the most fundamental things I live for and live by. But if that's you...

I want to give you an opportunity to call in. You say, well, I can't call because I'm working.

Well, we have opened up Facebook and Twitter and said, go ahead. and post your differences there.

So if you can't call, or if you'd rather not call, because you don't feel good about talking, or you don't feel you have a way with words, or you think I'm going to out-debate you, or something like that, which again is never my plan when we open the phone for critics to call in. It's to have a friendly discussion. Because I can't debate online and I can't get back to folks.

So if you'd rather not call, or you can't call, then just post your disagreement and I'll address it. And we've opened that up at the S. Dr. Brown Facebook page and on my Twitter account as well.

Now, here's the number to call: 866-34TRUTH. 8663487. Don't be afraid. It's okay. we'll have a nice discussion.

You might say, well, I don't like you. And I might be angry. That's okay. You can be. I won't be.

All right? It it's fine. It it takes two to get into a fight, and I'm not going to get into a fight. I may differ with you. I may tell you you're flat wrong.

You may tell me I'm flat wrong. That's just fine. But we're giving it another shot. Folks sometimes talk a big fight and then back down. In fact, it reminds me of something.

It's sad but funny. And again, let me give you the number, eight six six three four eight seven eight eight four. I just got a post from someone on Twitter. And I remember who the guy was. I remember his name.

I remember the acronym that he used for himself. And so when I first went on radio, he went after me. and he was a hard core atheist as aggressive as they come. as nasty as they come, as insulting as they come, as as condescending and demeaning as they come. And he would challenge me on every point, every point, every point.

And and here and there, when our blog was just getting started and things like that, I I'd engage him. And I'd say, okay, let's let's get into it. Let's go back and forth. But I'd keep inviting him to call.

So he was like, you know, boxer before a fight, trash talking, and he's going to put me, he's going to crush me, he's going to this, he's going to that, and he's going to demolish me. And and so we set it up for him to call. And he was like. A lamb out of the stall. I mean, he wasn't aggressive.

He wasn't intense. He lacked. the the fire that he had in his posts? I felt his approach was very passive, easy to refute and deal with. It was kind of shocking.

And then didn't hear from him much for a while, for years. and then he resurfaced today with another tech then we ultimately had to block them uh as others had to because of persistent and consistent. and constant Uh attacks non-stop.

So, did the same thing on Twitter when he came up with his latest attack? But I just wrote back before blocking and said, What a shame! It's sad. Said the same untruths, praying that God would bring him to himself.

So I'm gonna look to see if folks have been posting their disagreements yet. We come back, I wanna talk to you about the headline. On the Drudge Report. Oh God of burning cleansing. Flame.

Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome, friends, to the line of fire 8663 for truth if you differ with me on any level. Give me a call. Tell me why. We'll talk about it. Oh, listen, I have no shortage of attacks from different people accusing me of everything imaginable under the sun and differing in the craziest ways.

And I may share some of those with you for fun a little later in the show. But this is a time for dialogue and interaction. Yeah.

So I go to Drudge Report today. There are a bunch of different websites that I'll look at at different times in the day just to see what they're reporting, different headlines, wide range of perspectives that I will look at. And there is a picture. There is a circle of Christian leaders. And they are all surrounding President Trump, and they are laying hands on his back, on his shoulders.

So they're surrounding him in prayer. These are a number of well-known evangelical leaders. Praying for President Trump. And I had heard reports about this yesterday, but everything I heard was confidential. Not that this never happened before, or that the president hasn't been surrounded by some of these Christian leaders who've prayed for him, but just that it happened.

I was told confidentially yesterday. And then today, lo and behold, look at this picture. One of the gentlemen involved, and it's his picture that was posted, and then that. got the attention of the Daily Mail in the UK. Which is a a massive Publication and then very active online as well.

They reported the story of a South African Christian leader who's been in the States for several decades now, at least two decades, with a burden for revival in America, Rodney Howard Brown, who was known very controversially beginning in 93 for what was called the Laughing Revival. And there are definitely controversial things that happened in those meetings. But as I've listened to Rodney's message. Over the years, and spoken with him here and there, he carries a strong burden for repentance in America and awakening, and believes that we could see a great awakening, but that we are in very, very critical times right now, urgently critical times, kind of life and death.

So, put aside the controversy over so-called holy laughter for the moment. Let's not focus on that. I'm happy to talk about it if you want to, but. Just the meeting in the White House, the Rodney Howard Brown quote was that he. Believes that there is going to be an awakening.

We've spoken just a few times here and there over the years, face to face or by phone a couple of times and then met in different settings here and there.

So I spoke to him on the phone, I would say, once in the last four or five years. And it was about a series of meetings he was holding in D.C., evangelistic outreach meetings and meetings praying for repentance in America. And his whole His whole message was the urgency of the hour, the critical nature of the state of things in America, and how. Awakening was Life and death.

So we shared the same perspective there. In any case, It's just interesting to see headline on Drudge, Prayers for Trump. That is the story that Drudge Report decided to put as number one story. You say, what's Drudge Report? If you go to it, it is the most bland website you'll ever see.

It's almost always black and white, a little bit of color here and there with a picture or a caption. If you listen to Rush Limbaugh, And go to Drudge Report, you'll see a lot of the stories that he gets from Drudge Report. And all it is, is just headlines. It's just headlines, it's definitely sensationalistic. It's just headlines at black and white and then you click on them and it goes to that Website.

So it takes you away from Drudge Report over to that website, and they get billions of views. They get more views than New York Times and other major news outlets get views.

So whether you like Drudge Report or not, normally people love Drudge or hate Drudge. Either way, it's just of interest that this is the lead story on Drudge. And for sure. For sure. Whether you or a fan of the president, or an adversary of the president.

Whether you're one of those who thinks he's illegitimate or one of those who thinks he's been appointed by God. Either way, You should be praying for him. We are called. Listen, if the ancient believers were called to pray for kings and rulers, and that included madmen like Nero and those types of leaders. If they were called to pray for them, to pray for their salvation and to pray for them so that we could live quiet and peaceful lives in all godliness and honesty.

In other words, if we can be in a situation where we're not being crucified for our faith like Christians were in ancient Rome, where we're not being burned like torches as Christians were in ancient Rome, where we're not being brought before the Caesar, the king, and told to renounce Jesus or die, that it's better if you can be in that situation. It's better if you can be in a situation where you're not being beheaded for the faith as Christians are in the Middle East today, or imprisoned or tortured for the faith as they are in other parts of the world to this day. It's better if we can live quiet, peaceful lives with all godliness and honesty without having to deal with those type of horrific situations, although God still gives grace in the midst of it, and often the church grows in the midst of intense persecution. But In short, if we should be praying for kings and rulers, how much more should we be praying for a democratically elected president? In other words, someone that we have a vote in and a voice Yeah.

866-34-TRUTH. Just a couple of more comments about the whole Russia situation. I've been reading columns by conservatives. Very upset. that Donald Trump Jr.

met Was someone representing themselves as being from the Russian government, or that's what he was told they were, with potential dirt on the Hillary Clinton campaign, that she had somehow been colluding with Russia. And that he would have been more than happy to find out that that was true. And he met along with what, Jared Kushner and the campaign manager, then Paul Manafort. And turned out to be nothing of the sort. There was no such information forthcoming from the Russian individual that they met with, nor was there any further contact.

So if that's the smoking gun, there's no smoke. There's no smoke. If this is the proof that Donald Trump and his campaign colluded with Russia to steal the election from Hillary Clinton. There's nothing to it.

Now should he have met Was that a right thing to do? Did you work with a foreign government to get dirt on your political opponents? It probably happens a lot. It probably happens more than we realize. America probably meddles in foreign affairs more than many of us would be happy with.

Other governments try to meddle in our affairs more than we'd be happy with. There was very strong evidence that the Obama administration worked hard to take down Prime Minister Netanyahu when he was running for election the last time around during the Obama administration, that there was a real effort to defeat him, and it was known and open with funding of opposition party and opposition strategy. Can't prove that, but there is strong evidence to that. But that doesn't mean it's right. No, it would have been better for Donald Trump Jr.

not to have met with someone who alleged to have information. on uh Russia colluding with Hillary Clinton. And if he wanted to do it, and he's obviously new to the political scene, probably the best thing to do. would have been to talk to his father, because he said he didn't. and and then to say right who can we talk to uh fbi or cig i mean who's who's safe right and i say whoever who do we talk to and inform them we're having this meeting We want you to know we're having this meeting and if something comes up, we want to turn it over to you.

Perhaps that would have been the way to do it. But this proves zero. as far as collusion. Oh, did it really? No, no, no.

That's not it. That's not it. It's like you say, I know this person. is guilty of a crime. I know they stabbed My neighbor.

I'm sure of it. I saw a figure going in the house with a knife and I saw only from the back, but I'm sure it was them. And I know, I know they stabbed this person to death. And then a week later, you search, the police search that neighbor's house. and they find a knife.

Well, most houses have knives. They find a knife. But it's not the murder weapon. It has no DNA of that person whatsoever. It doesn't match the stab wounds.

Okay, they found the knife, but they didn't find the knife, nor did they find any incriminating evidence to link the person to the crime. Do you get my analogy?

So uh in no way Am I defending the Trump campaign or saying that what Donald Jr. did was good or wise? What I'm saying is there's nothing to this as far as an accusation. That The Donald Trump campaign colluded with Russia to steal the election. It's time to move on.

If real evidence one day surfaces that that's the case, trust me, you'll be plastered over every news outlet for the whole world to see. Right now, it is nothing more than a distraction. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks friends for joining us today on the line of fire 866-348. Seven. 884 is the number to call.

Okay, this is really fascinating. I gotta admit this. This is fascinating. On my Ask Director Brown's Facebook page, we have over... 530,000 people who like the page.

Over 500. 13,000 who follow the page. And anytime I post something controversial at all, which is frequently because I'm constantly dealing with controversial issues in a constructive way. Anytime I post that, what happens is Immediately, folks who differ will weigh in. And they'll give which is great.

As long as they're civil with one another, they don't use profanity, they don't engage in personal attacks, they can weigh in all they want. And there's some folks that are regular listeners and regular participants on the page that I think always differ with me. I don't see a lot of their posts, but whenever I see them, they're differing with me. But what I find so fascinating So, I mean, we can get hundreds, thousands of comments. running on on something controversial.

I mean, it could get very, very intense very, very quickly. Which is good. That's why we're discussing the issues. And the comments section is a forum for all of you to interact and get your viewpoints out. And it's very rare that I interact in the comments section.

So here's what I posted today.

Okay. I posted this. Oh, an hour ago now. Do you have a difference with me theologically, or culturally, or politically? Are you critical of stances I've taken?

Today is your day to call into the show, two to four. If you can't call, you can post your concern here. And then I say, folks, if discussions do start here, remember to stay civil. Let's have some constructive discussions today, and then a link where folks can listen. Remarkably, quite a bit.

Quite, quite. remarkably. Nobody's posted a difference there. All right.

Now one thing that I I'm wondering about with Facebook. Have they hindered the reach of this? as if it's advertising for the broadcast.

Now, wouldn't that be fascinating? I'm going to try a little experiment and see what happens during the break. 866-348-7884. In fact, in fact, let's do this together. Let me post.

A question Here a comment Here. And let's let's see how Folks, way in, all right? What's here's something I'm gonna write out, all right? What's your take? on my views of President Trump.

That's it. Just that. Little question. What's your take on my views of President Trump? Boom.

We'll publish that. Let's just see what happens. Could it be? That Facebook has hindered the reach of my post inviting folks to contact me with a difference.

Now that would be fascinating. It wouldn't be because of the nature of the post. It would be because It says the line of fire with Dr. Michael Brown, and that would be perceived as advertising the show Wouldn't that be interesting? We'll find out.

866-348-7884. Let me switch subjects again. Dr. Eugene Peterson. who is the author of the message, which is a best selling radical paraphrase of Scripture, At times I found it to be beautiful.

and powerful at other times completely distort it in terms of A restating of scripture that really went well beyond a paraphrase.

So I always told people for years and years and years, do not use it as your primary Bible. It's not a Bible. The message is not the Bible. It is a professor, a Christian professor's retelling of the Bible in his own words. All right?

It is not the Bible. The message is not The Bible. Let me repeat that. It is an extreme paraphrase of the Bible. It would be like: I studied scripture for years.

And then, in my own words, I retold you, verse for verse, What the Bible said is I understood it.

So you would be getting Mike Brown's paraphrased, recast it, restated version. of the Bible. You could not call it the Bible. If you titled it, you could call it Dr. Michael Brown's Retelling of Scripture.

and that would be accurate.

So at times with the message Yeah. It's right on, it's poignant, it's beautiful. As other times it's mm.

Okay, and at other times like what? That's not what the text says.

So I've used it here and there. I've quoted it. because it's vibrant at certain points and beautifully expressed at certain points.

So I've quoted it as a paraphrase. And otherwise, just told people, hey, use it. As a paraphrase, as an extreme paraphrase, but under no circumstances use it as a primary. Bible.

Well Eugene Peterson was interviewed by Jonathan Merritt, the story just posting, or we're just seeing it now, lots of folks are talking about it, where Dr. Peterson was asked about homosexuality, and he said, well, yeah, you know, his denomination, Presbyterian, is debating this, but basically he had a church of maybe 500 and there were some gay men and women in it. He didn't bother with that. That's fine. He said their spiritual lives seemed to be the same as everybody else's.

If he was asked to perform a same-sex wedding, his answer was, yes. Would he do it? Yes. One word. Yes.

Didn't even hesitate.

So I'm trying to reach out to him, to speak with him privately. Obviously, this is not a new position for him, but we just try to reach out privately if we can, but I'll probably be addressing that. as well over the course of the week, perhaps in an open letter this week or next. Uh am I surprised to hear this? No.

Grieved, of course. He's a respected leader, and he's done much good, and he's helped many people in many ways with what he's written. over the years and I'm sure he's been a great teacher and mentor to many. But Uh when you take as much liberty with Scripture. as he did with the message, When certain things can maybe get watered down or maybe twisted here and there.

Then it doesn't deeply surprised me. Again, saddens but not surprises. We come back. I am going to speak with a special guest about a major documentary that exposes one of the most aggressive and destructive organizations in America to day. I'll say it again.

one of the most aggressive and destructive organizations in America. Today. We'll be speaking with Dr. Frank Wright in just a few minutes. And I want to ask the question.

We look back to the America of old. Really? H how good? For the Good old dates, really. Are we over glorifying the past at the expense of the present?

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire 866-348-7. Eight. the number to call. Before I talk to you about an important documentary that's going to be airing in just a few days, I wrote an article last night. I've been wanting to write it for a little while.

And it's called when the church ruled by the sword. When the church ruled by the sword. Uh And I wrote it because I wrote an article. A couple weeks back that got a lot of circulation. It was on the key difference between Christianity and Islam.

And I said, the difference between the two faiths is the difference between Jesus and Muhammad. the difference between the cross and the sword? The difference between liberation and subjugation. Of course, I stand behind every word. I wrote that, and I wrote it with a forethought.

But I also noted this. Unfortunately, through much of Christian history, the church has departed from the message and example of Jesus. Also, ruling by the sword. Honesty compels me to tell this part of the story as well. In fact, It it Well, it it's true that Although Islam has terribly mistreated the Jewish people through history, that often Often Jews found much more safety and freedom in Muslim lands than so-called Christian lands.

It's terrible, painful history. And I shared that because look, my goal. is not to be partisan. My goal is not to take particular sides, My goal is to speak the truth in love. My goal is to expose darkness with light.

And Tragically. much of church history has been anything but exemplary. And that's why so many Jews are sure that Jesus is not the Messiah. They look at the history of those who profess to be his followers. And if you say, well, no true follower of Jesus would commit such atrocities.

Well, in theory it's true. But if Jews just see a group of people saying they're Christians and that's what's dominant in society and those professing Christians mistreat them and they experience that almost universally, that's what they understand the church to be. Right? In other words, when we look To see what Islam really is, we don't just look at the terrorists, maybe they're extremists, maybe they're misrepresenting the faith. We look at whole nations, we look at Iran.

We look at Afghanistan, we look at Saudi Arabia, we look at Pakistan. We look at these other countries and we see what status do non-Muslims have in those countries. And are those people kept down by the sword? by oppression and various things like that.

So Jews through history, their understanding of quote, Christianity was the corrupt regimes that ruled over them and the wicked rulers that persecuted them.

So the difference here Is that when professing followers of Jesus do those things, they do them in direct violation of the teaching and example of Jesus? and the teaching and example of his followers, and the teaching and example of the believers of the first few centuries. When Muslims use the sword to spread their faith. and use domination and subjugation to keep others Down Then In point of fact, they are following the example of Muhammad. and his first disciples, and the early centuries of Islam as it expanded and grew by the sword.

That's the difference. But friends. It may be offensive. But by God's grace, I am going to tell the truth. Either way, we come back.

I am going to speak with a special guest, Dr. Frank Wright. And he is, well, protege of Dr. D. James Kennedy.

And has been leading D. James Kennedy's ministries. for years. Very important interview about a very important documentary. Stay right there.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire today, 86634Truth. I'm very excited to bring on a special guest. in one moment. We were just able to set this up. Right at the beginning of the show today.

A few years back, I was placed on a list by the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, of thirty new leaders of the radical right. Included on that list were people like Mali Gzulu Shabazz, who was then the leader of the New Black Panthers. or David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Or neo-Nazis and white supremacists. And there were some other Christian leaders there.

We were on there because we were, quote, anti-gay. And I did call them out. I did call out the SPLC. I first wrote a letter thanking them for making my day, for putting me on their list. But then I called out their inaccuracies and their biases and how they actually, by their own criteria, were the ones spreading hate.

And then it actually got to the point when they had the Family Research Council on their hate group list. that uh a gay man Provoked in part by what they had written and getting the address of the FRSC from the hate map that the SPLC had. This man went into the FRC headquarters and tried to carry out a massacre. After wounding the security guard, he was tackled by that guard and subdued until police came. But his plan was to carry out a massacre.

And I and others said the SPLC has blood on their hands. They even put Dr. Ben Carson. On their hate list at one point until Bill O'Reilly drew attention to it and exposed it.

Now, Dr. Frank Wright, who is CEO, president of D. James Kennedy Ministries, has put together something very important that all of America needs to see. Frank, welcome to the broadcast. Thanks for joining us today.

Dr. Brown, my friend, thank you, sir. Good to be on with you.

Well, it is my joy. We could go through all your credentials and background. Let's just say this: you are. are eminently qualified to put out this expose. All right, first.

Who was the SPLC? How did they come to such prominence in America? Mm-hmm. You know, the SPLC is a classic example of a good idea, a good intention group of people gone horribly bad. It was founded in the 1970s, the early part of the 1970s, kind of on the tail end of the civil rights movement.

There were still vestiges of of uh you know, problems around uh the country uh with with respect to, you know, securing civil rights for all Americans. And they did some really good work. They put some of the Ku Klux Klan organizations in the South completely out of business by financially bankrupting them. They did some legal work testing cases to apply civil rights law where others were sort of timid in their application of it. They did some very good things.

But what seemed to have happened with them is as they made success, and as America, quite frankly, made some measure of progress in civil rights for all Americans, the sense that the mission they had of fighting the enemies of civil rights was no longer driving their financial engine. And so the good thing went they were doing some many great things, went horribly bad when they realized, well, there's an easier way for us to keep the money coming in, and that is just start attacking Christian and conservative and other organizations, anybody who departs from a leftist ideology. and label them as as haters. And since they adopted that strategy, the money is just rolling in. This group has $300 million in offshore, oddly enough, bank accounts.

and generates about fifty million dollars a year in revenue, mostly through crisis email appeals to Northeastern liberal Americans who have no idea that the things that they say are untrue. Let's just hear this again. How much do they bring in annually? The recent most recent figures are fifty million dollars a year. And uh they have Before the end of last year, they had $260-something million dollars.

in offshore bank accounts, because they have to disclose that. And with the additional funds they took in last year, it's well over $300 million by everybody's account. And interestingly, Michael, they spend very little of this money doing anything that relates to their name. Their office is in Birmingham, Alabama excuse me, Montgomery, Alabama, on the edge of a very deeply poverty-stricken portion of the community. They have this glamorous Building, they spend no money on poverty.

They spend very little money on any legal work these days. The only thing you can say about the Southern Poverty Law Center these days is that they're Southern. That's about all that's consistent with that name. Yeah, it is quite extraordinary. I remember hearing about them years ago.

I was part of a church that was very socially active and cared about justice issues. And the SPLC, they had a name and they were kind of revered. And then the FBI, different law enforcement, would look to them because they could help identify these hate groups. And here's a neo-Nazi white supremacist group. And here's a branch of the KKK.

They had more influence than many Americans would have realized. And years back, when I first spoke out in a way that differed with their position on homosexual issues, I actually got a letter from them. It was very friendly saying, you're probably not educated on the subject, and we'd like to help you. Let's dialogue. And I said, great, let's dialogue.

And of course, never heard back from them. And when I've called them out publicly with open letters and things, never heard a syllable back.

So this had nothing to do with dialogue or interaction. I don't think that have. Anyone from their side debate any of us so that we could bring things out in public. But you have a documentary now that is going to reveal, really for the first time ever on this level, to the American people who and what the SPLC currently is and how dangerous they actually are.

So tell us more about this documentary.

Well, like you, Michael, we've been on the hate list for a long time with them, and they've been able to get away with, and in your last remarks, you really put your finger on it. They've been able to maintain an aura of credibility even as what they argue about Christian groups and other conservative groups as being hate groups is just patently false. But law enforcement to some extent relies, has in the past relied upon them. Your friend and mine, Tony Perkins at the Family Research Council, showed me a fax he received from a sheriff in Louisiana that had Tony's own picture on the fax. The fax came from the Southern Poverty Law Center and said, this man leads a hate group.

And yet the FBI, the FBI not so much anymore, but in the past has often relied on the Southern Poverty Law Center. But their definition is so incredibly flawed that they need they just have just needed for a long time to be called out. You were Breaking ground when you called them out back in those early days. And so we published last month a special report, the Southern Poverty Law Center exposed. And this Friday this Saturday and Sunday, we will air in our syndication platform for our Trues That Transform television program.

We will air. A special that we've produced called Prophets of Hate, not Prophet with an ET, Prophet with an IT, Prophets of Hate, the Southern Poverty Law Center. And we're going to begin a major effort to get the truth out about who these people are and help people understand that they actually represent not just some crank group calling People who subscribe to the historic Christian faith, haters. They represent one of the greatest threats to the First Amendment freedoms of all Americans in our day. You remember Martin Luther King's letter from the Birmingham Jail when he said.

that justice denied anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. The Southern Poverty R Law Center represents that in a way that many Americans have no idea that their ordinary, long held, deeply convicted Christian convictions in the in the eyes of the Southern Poverty Law Center get them get them uh ranked or uh labeled as a hater. Right, so allegedly with the SPLC, that if you are. Willfully disseminating false information about another group, then that makes you potentially a hate group.

So if the false information according to them is for us scientifically accurate fairly present it. and biblically reasonable If they differ with it, they can grant it hateful.

So if, for example, you say there is no reputable scientific evidence that anyone is born gay. You are now anti-LGBT. You could be a hater. If you take issue with transgender activism, just scientifically, morally, socially, not even using scripture, you could now potentially be listed as a hater. And if you had a large enough organization, even a small one, you could be branded then as a hate group.

So someone's going to look at you the same way they look at some. Monster with some totally hateful, you know, KKK or Hitler-type views, you're going to be put in the same class, which to me makes them the hate group based on their own definition. What do you say about that?

Well, it always it ought yeah you're spot on, of course, and it reminds me of the famous letter that the Supreme Court relied upon when it issued its opinion in the Everson case about the wall of separation between church and state. All right, just stay there. My apologies. We'll continue on the other side of the break. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us today on Line of Fire, 866-348-7884. I am speaking with Dr. Frank Wright, President and CEO of D. James Kennedy Ministries. And I asked Dr.

Wright a question right before the break. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which has put fine Christian ministries and Christian individuals on their hate lists for years now and associated with us with the likes of neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klanmen and other genuinely hateful groups. In doing so, they are disseminating misinformation and they themselves really are the hate group. Frank, right before the break, you began to reference a Supreme Court decision.

So back to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. I was just thinking about Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, a very famous letter in American science. Supreme Court jurisprudence, in which he talked about the great wall of separation between church and state, but he said something else.

He said, our laws touch on actions, not on ideas. And in this respect, the SPLC has turned the Constitution on its head. It doesn't look at people's actions. It looks at what they think about things and challenges them on it. Your earlier comment about their standard that they used to apply, you know, it's a question of fact.

If you're factually wrong, you know, we're going to oppose you. That's not even true of them anymore. I mean, if you defend preborn babies today, you're a hater. You support traditional marriage. How about immigration enforcement or border security?

Today, as you know, Michael, it's anything that departs from a hard left Progressive liberal agenda that gets you branded a hater. Their goal is to silence the speech of those opposed to them, which is why we see them as the greatest threat to our First Amendment freedoms. If, for example, you have an organization or ministry that helps people with unwanted same-sex attraction. Helping them deal with it. You might be the target of an SPLC lawsuit.

And we all know that lawyers with enough money can wear out just about anybody. They can bankrupt ministries. They can bankrupt businesses. They can take your time and steal years from you. And yet they'll gladly do this if they believe it's for their cause.

How can folks watch this documentary? We've made it very easy. Our website is D. James Kennedy Ministries has a shortened. acronym for the website, it's bjkm.org.

So, if you go to djkm.org forward slash SPLC, And if you do that today, you'll actually see a trailer for our special that airs Saturday and Sunday. You'll also see the book, the special report on the Southern Poverty Law Center exposed.

So starting this weekend, everyone will be able to watch this. special program uh on the SPLC and be able to forward the link to their friends and and and get the word out here by going to DJKM dot org forward slash SCP-C. PLC. All right, wonderful. I need to watch that as well, and we'll do our best to share that with others.

As soon as there are links up, we'll post them and share them. Frank, realistically, How much damage are they doing with the influence they have? I know that some of the influence has waned. I know that behind the scenes, different law enforcement agencies are no longer looking to them or relying on them. But still, they're very influential with that much money and clout.

They can do a lot of damage. What are they actually doing that is harmful right now? Michael, in my view, if you link two things together, you get a real sense of the danger here. The first thing is that Congress passed in the last decade, laws against hate crimes. additional penalties against crimes motivated by hate.

If you murder somebody and your motivation is hate, there should be a greater penalty. I'm not sure how the murdered person feels about that. Their life is gone. But the Congress and the courts have upheld this idea of hate crimes. They never upheld the idea of hate speech.

But as those things tend to metastasize, a lot of those laws on hate crimes are really targeted at hate speech. And then here you have this group, the SPLC, calling people like Michael Brown and D. James Kennedy Ministries and Family Research Council and American Family Association and others calling them hate. ADF and Alliance Defending Freedom. Alliance Defending Freedom.

You know, we could go on and on. There's over 40 or 50 groups on their hate map. And they're making a connection between a constitutional principle, according to the Supreme Court anyway, that there can be laws targeting hate crimes, and they're making us connected to that in the minds of everyone. And it leads to what we've seen in the last decade, and that is violence against. Starting with the Family Research Council, where Floyd Corkins went in there with a gun and a bag of Chick-fil-A sandwiches.

He's going to kill everybody in the building and stuff the sandwiches in their mouths and take photos of them so that he could make the statement that he wanted to make. And then just a couple of people. couple of weeks ago, Congressman Steve Scalise. shot on a on a ball field in Northern Virginia by someone who was a devotee of the pages of the Southern Poverty Law Center, particularly their hate map.

So they are an engine of violence. They are more dangerous, in my view, than anyone on their list. Yeah.

And friends, if you think there's Any hyperbole in what Dr. Wright is saying. If you think, oh, here's just another right-wing fanatic, paranoid, we're just all paranoid. Watch the documentary. Watch it this weekend.

Once more, sir, please tell our listeners where they can go. Thanks, Michael. Djkm.org. forward slash SPLC. You'll see a trailer and the resource that we offer, the Southern Poverty Law Center book, until the weekend.

On the weekend, both of those links will that link rather will go live. You'll be able to watch the special program. We're also on Direct TV. We're on satellite, cable, broadcast television. If you search for D.

James Kennedy Ministries or Trues that Transform, which is the title of our program, you can also find us through broadcast outlets as well. Awesome. May truth triumph. May light shine in the darkness. And you know, it doesn't matter how much money or how much influence they have, they're putting forth lies, disinformation that is harmful, not helpful.

So I can pray that all of that will be exposed. And we're also confident that the truth of the gospel and God's people will stand either way. Keep up the great work, and we'll do our best to promote this. And Michael, I commend you. You fought this good fight long before others got involved.

And I commend you for being a leader in this regard. And we're really following in your footsteps.

So we thank you, brother. Oh, well, we're in this together. God bless you. Thanks so much. All right, friends, I want to give you the challenge on this really seriously.

If you don't take this seriously. If you think, oh, he's just two old guys, guys in their 60s, probably, and they're just like these right-wingers and think the world is collapsing. Hey, listen, I. I don't live with fear. I live with confidence.

I feel bad. When I see an atheist rally, I feel bad for the atheists. When I see Islamic terrorists and by the way, I'm not comparing an atheist to an Islamic terrorist who slaughtering people, okay? I'm just putting them in different classes of those who don't believe what I believe, and they're aggressive about it. When I see Islamic terrorism rising, I grieve for the people affected by it.

and I grieve for the terrorists and I want to see justice. But I'm not if I'm like, oh no, oh no, they're gonna take over. Oh no, our side's gonna lose. Listen, we're following a risen savior. We've got nothing to fear.

But At the same time, we recognize the reality of what's happening. Go to that website. Check things out for yourself this weekend. and you will see. You will see what the SPLC is doing.

Hey friends! This is the week. To get your signed and numbered copy of Saving a Sick America, we'll get you an advanced one. It comes out in September. Signed, numbered collector's edition.

What could be the most important book I've written, go to askdrbrown.org.

Well, we're going to open the phones to critics today, to those who differ with me. Also, I want to talk about how good were the good old days in America and more on Russia and Trump. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us today on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown, blessed and delighted to be with you. Here's the number to call, 866-08. Three four eight seven eight eight four eight six six three four eight. Truce.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Thanks for this tweet. It's called Pray for Trump Success. That's the name of the Twitter handle. And it says, I'm totally in favor of any prayer for Trump, but how could you possibly tell I am?

Yeah, smiley face response there. Yes, major news, Drudge Report, Christian leaders surrounding President Trump in prayer yesterday, laying hands on him, praying for him. Whether you like him or not, you should welcome prayer for him as we welcome prayer for President Barack Obama. It would have been wonderful if a bunch of the same leaders could have prayed over him. Hey, welcome to the broadcast.

In a moment, I am going to speak with a pro-life leader in Charlotte, North Carolina, about something happening, and that's in our own backyard, those of you who live in Greater Charlotte, that you need to know about. And if there's a way you can get involved and make a difference, that would be great. I also want to ask some honest questions. about our nation. You know, we talk about all the good old days, oh, making America great again.

And then some say well How good were the good old days Really? How good were the good old days? Or, or. Was America ever really great? I want to address that question head-on in the context of my new book, Saving a Sick.

America, and you can download the introduction and first chapter for free. By going to savingasickamerica.com, savingasickamerica.com, you can order a signed and numbered copy. A collector's edition, a pre-order signed and numbered copy of a beautiful hardcover. You can do that by going to askdrbrown.org. You'll find it on the homepage, askdrbrown.org.

Okay. Before I get into any of that though, I want to speak to you about an attitude of heart. I want to speak to you about a mindset. Many people who listen to the broadcast regularly tell me that they receive courage as they do. that they receive encouragement as they listen.

that they receive hope as they listen. I know that circumstances can often be disconcerting and depressing. I know. that the news around us can often be very gloomy. And very Glum.

I know. that it is very, very easy. To be discouraged and to say, okay, we have the hope of eternal life, we're going to be with the Lord forever, but this world is messed up. this world is just getting worse and worse and everything around us is getting worse and worse. Maybe that's how it feels in your own family.

Maybe that's literally how it feels in your own body because you are in a state of sickness and death. Deterioration. Maybe all those things are true, and my heart goes out to you if that is your situation. I just want to say this to you. From the heart.

If God is for you. No one can ultimately be against you. and I would rather have all the bad news in the world at my door. All the media. all the governments of the world.

all the armies of the world. all technology of the world. steadfastly against me and God with me. than the other way around. If God is for you, ultimately, Who can be against you?

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks friends for joining us today on the line of fire. I wanted to bring on a special guest because I mean, we have friends, colleagues on the front lines, standing for truth, standing for righteousness, reaching out to the hurting. We have folks that we know on the front lines of the pro-life movement. When they experience opposition, we want to do our best to be a voice for them, an outlet for them. I know that many of you are listening to me right now all over North Carolina.

We have more... Stations that we're on in North Carolina than anywhere in America. That's been our history as we started broadcasting in North Carolina.

So, many of you listening all over North Carolina and right over Charlotte, but wherever you are around America, around the world, I want to talk to you about something very important and join with a local pro-life leader, Daniel Parks. Hey, Daniel, thanks for joining us today on the broadcast. Yes, thank you, doctor Brown. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share kind of what's going on. Sure thing.

How long have you been engaged in pro-life work actively? Personally, me and my family for since two thousand five, so for about twelve years in this frontline capacity. All right, and how many kids do you and your wife have? We have eight. Eight kids.

And to what extent are your kids involved with you in pro-life work?

Well, when you're involved in the capacity that I'm involved right now, it's I told my wife the other day, we're like a missionary family, but we get all the amenities of being in America.

So obviously the whole family is involved in that level. But Uh as far as on the sidewalks, we um bring our whole family out on Saturdays to volunteer together and just uh Show our children what it is to serve the Lord and what it is to serve others in that capacity. They come out and offer leadership to those coming in the the clinic and also uh hope signs and even maybe share a scripture on uh on the uh microphone. Um when they're uh when they're able to do that. All right, so the reason I asked that is just to paint a picture that you've got these kids.

What are the ranges in age?

So we have a 19-year-old all the way down to an almost nine-month-old.

Okay, so you are living examples of the pro-life movement as well.

So you're out there with the whole family. You're obviously not screaming and yelling. You're obviously not using hate speech, engaging in profanity. You're there as a family in a way that's appropriate even for little children to be there. And you're offering women or couples going in there a better way, offering them hope, getting them to rethink whether they should have an abortion or not.

Many of them are emotionally wrought up already. They're really struggling whether to do it or not. And sometimes just seeing you there, seeing the family there, is enough to get them to turn away and maybe to go to a clinic where they can get help about adoption or check in with one of the ministries there.

So you've been doing this for years. What has happened now recently?

Well, recently, we have had some pro choice or really pro abortion opposition out there some folks that I believe were stirred up because of this past election cycle and not well not too pleased with the results. And they're coming out and trying to stir up every city entity that they possibly can to. to be a hindrance to what we're doing. Thankfully, we're able and we have so many resources. I mean, there are 1,300 churches in the Greater Charlotte area with All kinds of resources and help.

And we like to bring those resources to the front lines there at the abortion clinic. And one of those resources is the Mobile Ultrastown unit. And so we're able to take a mom directly from the abortion clinic onboard the mobile ultrasound unit. My wife is actually one of the nurses that does the ultrasounds there. and talk through some of the options that we offer you things like you mentioned, adoption and housing ministries and things we work with.

But we've even had to fight a battle to be able to keep the mobile ultrasound units out there. try to get C DOT, which is Charlotte's Department of Transportation, to put no parking signs along the road there. They've tried to get CNPD to stop us from using our amplified sound and stop us from handing out literature. Um And they've tried to get the recently, this is the latest thing of the Charlotte's zoning department. to uh keep us from using signage or at least keep us from uh um I believe effectively using signage.

And so this pro-abortion group is really trying to hit us from every angle. Uh And of course, you know, distracting us from the mission that the Lord has called us to out there. All right, so do they have any right to do what they're doing? Are they within any legal bounds? Are they pressing you on any level about something that you're doing wrongly?

So you're talking about in particular the zoning officials, this is kind of our latest battle? Yes, sir. Yes. So what they are, so I'll just kind of give you a quick quick rundown of what they've done. They came out about three weeks ago.

We set up a canopy there to shield us from the sun and the weather. It's on a public sidewalk and it's very low traffic. We're the only traffic on that sidewalk. pretty much in four or five hours' time. There's there's no one else but us there.

So we set up a canopy. The city zoning came out and said your canopy is in violation of an obstructing the sidewalk. Or obstructing a public right-of-way law. We want you to remove it. And I've learned over the years in dealing with city officials that they with all due respect, they try to invent laws or misapply laws.

And I didn't agree that that what they the way that they're applying that law was uh was um right. And so they they said, Well, we're gonna seize your canopy and they did. Oh, they took it and, you know Take it wherever they took it to. And then the week after they came out on a On a Wednesday and told us, and we've dealt with them, we'll be having conversations with them, what signage. how can we properly place signage to please you guys and I have to do with this.

So we've trying to abide by all of that, putting it on our vehicles. 'Cause we u we feel like signage is important. uh to show people the reality of abortion, but also the reality of the choices. We show pictures of babies that are victims of abortion and babies that were rescued from abortion. Because to me, that is the context for that.

Not every context is the context to show uh the victim images. But this is the context for that. It changes hearts, it changes minds. Anyway, so we place them on our vehicles off the ground like the city asks us to.

Well, we're holding the sign. And sometimes they may be propped against the car or something like that when somebody's not holding it. We've never had an issue in the 12 years that I've been out there, never had an issue. Uh but last Uh, Wednesday. Um some city officials just showed up out of the blue and literally took Signs out of two overall fall into your hands because they were touching the ground that you're in violation of.

Some other ordinance they gave me had to do with uh solid waste uh abatement. And so we're going to write you a citation for each sign, and we're going to take the signs. And so that's what they did. And then just this week on Wednesday, One of our volunteers was actually getting the sound permit to show to the police officer and set his signs down on his vehicle. Away from anyone even being able to see him, but you can just kind of him against this vehicle.

While he was doing that, about 10 or 15 minutes it took for him to show the police officer the sound permit and his identification and everything. And the zoning officials literally came out of nowhere and uh went made a beeline for those signs leaning against his his car and uh And took 'em. And I'm I'm asking them for uh you know uh A warrant. Do you have a warrant to seize my property? And they handed me some paper that has to do with, again, obstructing a public right-of-way.

Incredible. Yeah.

Right, right in the streets of Charlotte. I mean, this is mind-boggling.

So, obviously, from everything we can tell, there's a concerted effort. There are people who have gotten together and said they're going to do something. about this. And what would be the best way to come against this? Obviously, we respect authority.

When authority acts wrongly, we confront it rightly. We confront it within the bounds of the law. What would be the best thing that could happen? Is it more people coming down with you? Is it people calling a phone number?

Is it going to a website? What's the best way people could do something?

So uh So, certainly, we would always invite more folks to come out and stand with us. And I promise if you come and stand, God will use you to. to save the lives of babies. And I don't just say this as some kind of cliche thing because you're supposed to as a ministry leader. I say this seriously.

We want your prayers. We want people to be praying. I mean, we just left from there not terribly long ago. We saw three babies saved today. And uh and one young lady who had just taken the abortion pill, Her face was just covered with regret.

She came out on the sidewalk. We had to pray for her. And she was thrown up there in the parking lot. I'm just praying that she's throwing up the abortion pill. Like, maybe the Lord is.

And and doing that, uh Um so to save her baby 'cause she was just uh you could just tell she was right through Gret. Um uh And Daniel, what happens when, just real quick, when folks A woman comes in and gets her ultrasound. What happens? Um so typically um we will Talk through some of the issues that brought her there. We know that they've come for reasons.

They're not just saying, hey, it's a good day for an abortion. That's not their attitude at all. They have pressure in their life, there's things that they're dealing with.

So we take them on board with a registered nurse or a stenographer and a counselor, and they give them a free pregnancy test and the free ultrasound and then they talk through the issues that have that have brought them there and then try to get them plugged into resources that would meet those issues. Got it. And is there a website they can go to or an address that they should show up at?

So the abortion clinic is 3220 Latrobe Drive and our website is charlotte.citiesforlife.org and there's information there to get involved. Sure. All right.

Give the website one more time. Charlotte.citiesforlife.org. City's the number four in life. All right.

Charlotte.citiesforlife.org. It's fire we want for fire we want. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Hi, I made a big discovery. I made a big discovery. If you were listening last hour, You know that I posted on Facebook an invitation for people to call or just post their disagreements with me. All right, call or post your disagreement with me. If you can't call, post it so we can have discussion.

We do periodic critic calling days, things like that.

So I was... shocked by no one even posting anything. Not that people didn't call, but that no one posted anything. And then I noticed on our Facebook page, which has well over a half million followers, and they're very they are very, very active and they have no shortage of weighing in with their views and opinions, I noticed that The post hardly reached anyone. It tells you on the page how many it reached.

It hardly reached anyone.

So I thought, okay, it could be because we have the line of fire logo up there that Facebook looks at that as an ad for our show. And they told me some time ago, you're not supposed to advertise, even though it's not advertising in the way they don't like.

So, I reposted the same thing, but without the logo, and suddenly people started posting.

So, lo and behold. That's what happened.

So let me just respond to a couple of things here. And then I want to get to the question of: how good were the good old days? Really, in America. And if you want to differ with me on anything, 866-348-7884. This is not, you've got questions, we've got answers.

This is only if you differ with me. But I'm just looking at some posts from, hang on. from MJ. Let me just see if I could find this again here. Oh, come on.

Where was I? I was just looking at the post. It was right in front of me. Um here we go. Here we go.

Uh Or from Amiel, I'm sorry, posted three different websites.

So I'm answering on the air. I'm not answering on the website. One of them. by a gentleman. Why Dr.

Michael Brown has no credibility. This is from October of last year.

Well, I actually invited the gentleman on the air with me a few. weeks back, with within the last, what, six weeks, I would say. And I was quite surprised by the direction that it it went, honestly. And I did give this brother a warning of concern in terms of the direction he was going. A former Assembly of God Pastor Anthony Way, W-A-D-E, but a brother in the Lord.

I expect to spend eternity with my brother in the Lord. Amiel, please listen for that. Just go search thelineoffire.org and type in this pastor's name, and you'll see the interview that we had.

So I just want to point you in that direction. But you went to a couple of other critic websites. One had an article about me in November of last year, the Dr. Michael Brown checklist of manipulation.

So here's the issue. Whoever this individual is that wrote this, I don't know that they ever contacted me to interact. That's number one.

Okay, number one. Number number Who? are they when they post falsehoods Why should I waste precious radio time? refuting complete falsehoods.

Okay. If someone writes a whole article about me, that I'm no longer doing ministry and instead I I am selling uh baseballs to minor league teams and the baseballs are faulty and they do a f whole report and all of it's bogus. Why would I get on the air and refute it? It's silly.

So when someone says, I become a very convincing apologist, and quote, front man, for obvious false teachers like Bill Johnson, Heidi Baker, Rick Joyner, Lance Walnow, and even Benny Henn.

So I When I see that, so I was on Benny Hinn's show, and I said immediately, okay, it could have been a mistake to do it. I was trying to reach his audience and wanted to establish a relationship with him privately, and if I could be a blessing, or if I saw error, I wanted to address it. But that's as far as it went. And I since wrote to him, challenging him on fundraising and other issues and things.

So I'm a front man for Benny Han. I had Lance Walnell on my show. Yeah, Lance is a friend, okay? I had Lance Walnell on my radio show. One time.

All right.

And we discussed his views of President Trump. and why he believed that God was raising up Donald Trump to be our 45th president. And I had differed with Lance on this before. And I told folks, hey, I differ. Here's what Lance says.

Here's what I say.

So let's have Lance on.

So now I'm Lance's front man. Rick Joyner is a friend. I've never had Rick on the air with me.

Okay, so I'm a front man for Rick Joyner. I had Bill Johnson on the air with me on the condition that he would take calls from critics and those who differed. And but they didn't call. I put the word out. I I did three whole shows.

either with Bill Johnson or then about Bill Johnson, a new apostolic reformation teachers, and I said, the third time around somebody finally called in who was a critic.

So I give airtime to critics, and then they don't call in, and then they blame me for saying, hey, guys, where are you? Don't don't don't post articles that are bogus and misleading in content. I won't dignify them by refuting all the errors that are in them, okay? Hmm. But Don't post these ridiculous articles.

and then not even take my invitation to come on the air and justify your position. Listen. Most folks do not offer free airtime. to their critics who attack them, malign them, and misrepresent them.

Okay? Most don't do that, and if they do it, The whole purpose is to set them up, to destroy them. And folks that have called in that have been critics, the rare ones that have. For the most part. We've had civil interaction in the midst of our differences.

And then sometimes they'll post something even more ridiculous afterwards. Hey, fine, that's between them and God. And I don't see these. I don't go to the websites. When they do whole broadcasts about me and put up whole YouTube videos about me, I don't watch them.

I don't listen to them. I pray for the folks and I smile because it's further encouragement that I'm doing the right thing.

So here's the best thing to do. All right? I have written almost 30 books now. written almost 30 books. I have thousands of hours of radio shows.

900 videos on YouTube. God knows how many preached messages out there circulating. differ with the content of what I preach and teach. All right? I have friends on the air that are cessationists, that don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit.

I quoted Pastor John MacArthur approvingly the other day with appreciation. although we strongly differ on the gifts of the Spirit for it to day. I've had other guests on that definitely differ with me in other areas, but I appreciate their work in some areas. and I'm glad to give them a platform if I recognize them as brothers or sister. In point of fact, more than any of you are aware.

I am actively addressing abuses within the charismatic movement. as I hope those on the cessationist side are addressing abuses on their end. I am actively addressing abuses in ways that, well, give it a little time, you'll be somewhat shocked to find out. But Friends, if you can't, pick up the phone and call. or write a letter to our website, say, hey, can we talk privately to discuss these things?

Don't expect me to take your criticisms all that seriously. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

We have opened our phone lines today exclusively to those who differ with me. We've had some important interviews, by the way, and I've been responding to some folks who post it online. But if you have a genuine difference with me, theologically, morally, culturally, politically, spiritually, personally. And you want to raise that, you want to discuss that with me. It's a genuine concern you have, please, by all means.

Give me a call. Three, four, eight, seven, eight. Eight, eight, four. And by the way, I'm a nice guy. Yeah, I'm a nice guy, really.

I won't be mean to you. I won't try to embarrass you. If you say something that I find to be preposterous, I'll... Do my best to expose the error of it, but that's not meant to hurt you, that's meant to help you. 866-348-7884.

So yesterday, The trailer to my new book, Saving a Sick America, went live. It is a real Eye-opener, only three minutes long to watch. And if you go to my YouTube channel, well, you know what? Tell you what, go here, go here. SavingasickAmerica.com.

And then I'll tell you how you can get a signed pre-ordered copy of the book a little bit later in the show. Jot this down, savingasickamerica.com. All right, go there as soon as you have an opportunity. Not only can you watch the trailer there. for the wet for the book, which is three minutes compelling I Opening.

All right.

It'll show you just in a glimpse how far America's falling. Like I posted earlier, the difference between America when I was growing up as a kid and America today is the difference between Leave It to Beaver and Game of Thrones. But when you're there, you can download the introduction and first chapter absolutely free.

Now, the book comes out in September. but you can download the introduction and first chapter free right there.

Okay. So somebody Post it. In response to the video, the trailer, which is getting lots of excellent. Responses, which we really appreciate.

Someone posted this. Uh Yeah, the good old days when gays just stayed in the closet.

So in other words, taking issue. with whether these were the good old days in America. And then someone else posted this. Wow. old people problems where they remember a fictional Leave It to Beaver Life.

Can I ask you an honest question? If you grew up watching Leave It to Beaver, so you're my age, or a little older, a little younger. If you grew up Watching Leave It to Beaver. Did you watch it and say pfft? This is just fiction?

This is just nonsense. This is no family in America is like this. as this critic is saying, a fictional America? Or did you watch it? It seemed like a normal show to you.

Yeah, I understand plenty of American families were not like that, but what percentage? of American households were divorced then. What percentage of kids were not raised by both mother and father? What percentage of kids were fatherless? How how many How many Kids had a problem with pornography.

At that time. Huh. I think those are some fair questions to ask about the state of the nation.

So when we come back, I want to dig into this a little bit. Yes. When I was growing up, segregation was still rampant in different parts of America when I was a boy. Yeah.

There's still much more inequality, say, in terms of women and their abilities in society. But you better believe it was a far more innocent society. a far more family-friendly society. And as I say, the difference between America then and now is the difference between Leave It to Beaver and Game of Thrones. We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire today. 866-34-TRUTH is the number two call. Again, this is not Q ⁇ A. You've got questions, we've got answers, just inviting calls from those who might differ with me. And uh let's start in Let's start in Dallas, Texas.

George, welcome to the line of fire. Aye. Hey, how you doing? Yeah, actually. had a question, but since you opened up your show with uh uh taking calls from people that differ with you.

Okay. Let me go ahead and uh telling you on something. Please. Hello? Yes, go ahead.

Oh, okay. Yeah, um yeah, I've actually talked to you before about the Genesis six and uh You said that you believe that uh these angels became men. that they took on flesh, they became human. Go. Um how does How how do How do they become flesh without being conceived and born of a woman.

Yeah, that's a totally fair question, George.

So we're talking about Genesis 6. where it talks about the sons of God and the daughters of men. And that the sons of God took the daughters of men, meaning took them for wives, and then their offspring. apparently referred to as the Niphilim, which would seem to be a race of giants so uh The question would be Or were they fallen angels which somehow took on human form and were able to procreate, right? because they were actually in a body that was now a functioning male body.

Or does the sons of God just refer to godly men? who interacted with, who intermarried the daughters of men, and they were ungodly women.

So there was a mixture, and that's one of the reasons that the flood came.

So my problem with the second view is that there is a contrast between the sons of God and the daughters of men. Daughters of men is nothing evil about that. It's not saying that the godly ones intermarried with the ungodly ones and that was part of what brought destruction.

So the language doesn't support it there. And then there are many ancient Jewish traditions. that support the idea that these were fallen angels. And it seems to be spoken of in in Jude where it it Uh implied as as well that this is what happened. But how it happened, I have no idea.

I can't explain that. I don't know how they could take on legitimate human form. And be able to procreate with women. I can't explain how it happened. It just seems to be.

the most natural reading of the text and one that's supported by ancient viewpoints.

So how do you come up with a different view?

So I have no answer. Except for it seems to have happened, and therefore they had the ability to do it. But how they did it? I can't say. I don't know.

The text doesn't tell me, so that's a fair objection. Uh what what is your view of the passage? Yeah, that's why that's why I would argue that they can't. in order to be in order to incarnate In order to become flesh, They would have to be conceived and born of a woman. That's what constitutes a human being.

Being So let me just add.

Alright, so let me ask this, okay?

So obviously, that's how the Son of God came into the world, born of a woman, right? Virgin-born, so we didn't share our sinful nature. Take the Lord appearing with two angels. in Genesis 18. They're there in physical bodies.

He washes their feet. and they eat and drink with him.

Now, wouldn't you think that in order to have a physical body where you can eat and drink with someone? that you have to be born of a human being. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because obviously it is. as you and I believe the Lord Jesus who appears with two angels. And as you say, They uh Eight.

whatever Abraham offered them But the Bible makes it clear that That was not an incarnation. Because the word didn't become flesh. Until he was conceived and born of a woman. Mm-hmm. So obviously he can appear Just I believe he appeared uh also you know, with uh wrestling with Jacob and also uh appeared with uh i in in the in the fiery furnace.

Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, those are Christophanes. and you have angelophanies that can take on the appearance of human beings, absolutely. But that's not the same as an incarnation. That's not the same as becoming a human being.

All right, so what if they appeared? As they took on human flesh for a period of time, just like the angels with the Lord in Genesis 18. They took on human flesh. And They were somehow able to procreate in human flesh just like they can eat and drink in human flesh. That's what I disagree, though.

They did not take on flesh, they appeared.

So you're saying it wasn't It wasn't an actual. Just explain in your view how that worked then. Were they actually physical? In other words, If I touch them, do they have physical substance, like Jacob wrestling with the angel?

Well Do you believe Jacob wrestled with The Lord Jesus. You believe that? Yeah, I believe when it says that the angel, it was really the Son of God. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah, absolutely. Same thing. But he didn't become a human being until He was conceived and born of a woman. All right, I agree with you.

The incarnation doesn't take place, but he did appear in a human body at that time. Absolutely. Right, right. But I'm saying when he wrestled with the. The Holy Spirit takes on the appearance of a dove.

But the Holy Spirit did not actually become a dove. Right, right. But in terms of Genesis 32. Jacob really wrestled with someone physically, correct? Absolutely.

They ask they're just like when they ate with Abraham.

Okay. So why couldn't someone physically procreate? If they could wrestle, if they could eat and drink, why couldn't they procreate? Do you think Jesus could procreate when he appeared before Abraham. I I think it's a moot question actually.

But I'm just asking theologically. By the way, this is a totally fair discussion, George. And I'm not trying to prove it. Yeah.

Okay, good. Because I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm trying to probe.

So. As far as Uh physically wrestling. I'm just saying theoretically from your viewpoint. An angel could you could wash that angel's feet. You could physically wrestle with the Son of God in a human body, They could eat and drink.

The Son of God and angels could eat and drink and actually take stuff in, chew on, etc. But they couldn't procreate. Where do you draw that line? Yeah, it's um Eating and drinking is quite different from procreation. Very much different.

All right, so that's your viewpoint.

So just real quick then, how do you understand Genesis 6?

Well, uh I do believe that uh sons of gofers to uh the godly line of seth I don't believe there was uh angels that incarnated, that became human beings. Got it. So why does that mean that angels can appear today? The Bible makes it clear that even angels can appear to us today as man. Yes, so what?

Why, in your view, sir, does it refer to the daughters of men? Because there's nothing ungodly about being called daughters of men. In other words, it's the sons of God. It's not the sons of God intermarrying with the daughters of Satan. Right?

Uh not the daughters of Satan, but the ungodly line of Cain. Right, right, but it says daughters of men. Why doesn't it say something that would make it clear that they were sinful?

Well, I mean, the whole race was sinful at that point, and especially the line of Cain. Got it. I mean, you you just see from from your viewpoint, though, it has some weaknesses. Because sons of God So that's obviously speaking of something positive. I'm saying sons of God in the sense of angels.

You're saying sons of God in the sense of godly ones. But you're saying the whole human race was sinful.

So who are all these godly ones?

Well, I mean, obviously the whole race was simple at the time, but you still have the. the differentiation between the wicked and the righteous.

So I'm talking the line of Seth were the righteous, whereas the line of Cain was the wicked. But why does it call them the daughters of men? Why doesn't it call them wicked? 'Cause daughters of men is generic. There's nothing good or bad about that.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, so it breaks, it's a problem. The passage. presents Problems for everyone. But hey, George, this is a totally fair discussion.

And I'm being as honest as I can in saying that, yeah, it is a theological conundrum. One way or another. But thank you for raising objection to it. That's obviously not a hill that I die on. Can I ask one more question?

Please, go ahead. Yeah.

I think this is very important because Uh There's a whole lot of talk about UFOs. In fact, there's a I think they're going to re-release. Uh the um Close encounters of the third kind. And uh you know, I happen to believe that these UFOs, these things that appear Are not Aliens from other planets. I happen to believe they're demonic spirits that are here to deceive.

And so they can take on whatever form just as they can do. you know, present itself as an angel of light. Right, so the whole idea of UFOs being demonic apparitions, there's some strong evidence for that as well.

So, yeah, where does this lead in terms of are people going to confuse this with Genesis 6 stuff? Interesting discussion. Thanks, sir. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for being with us today on the line of fire. 866-34 Truth is the number two call. Just want to take a moment to get into this. The first chapter in my new book, Saving a Sick America, you can download it for free. Free is an FREE, along with the introduction, which is a real eye-opener, at SavingasickAmerica.com.

Saving a Sick America. Go there to download the first chapter. and the introduction absolutely free. The intro is an eye-opener. about the state of America.

As I become a family man in the early 60s, falling asleep with my family while watching Leaver to Beaver, and I wake up. Today. Yeah, it's quite a shocker. I really felt God's grace in writing that to convey a powerful vision. And we've got a short video trailer that conveys some of that as well.

All that's saving a sickamerica.com. And if you would like to order a signed and numbered collector's edition of the book when it comes out, due out in September, you can get an advanced copy signed and numbered by going to my website, askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. But chapter one of the book. Ask the question, how good were the good old days. And And I point out that, you know, when I grew up as a boy and watched Leave it to Beaver with my family, we didn't say to ourselves, how corny.

It's not a family in a nation like the Cleavers. Instead, it was as normal to us as it was entertaining.

So in other words We grew up with shows like Father Knows Best and Andy Griffith Show. Today it's keeping up with the Kardashians and Secret Diary of a of a call girl. In the late 50s, early 60s, Annette Funicello was a popular young female star singing songs like Pineapple Princes. Today it's Miley Cyrus singing songs like Wrecking Ball. in the nude writing a wreck-e-ball on a music video.

You take an old show like Dennis the Menace. aired from 1959 to to nineteen sixty three. Uh today We'd be following Dennis's journey on reality T V waiting for him to get out of the juvenile detention center after robbing an elderly man in broad daylight. Will Dennis ever change, or will he end up dead before his 18th birthday? Rather than Dennis having that old scruffy hairdo with that shock of blonde locks always out of place, he'd be sporting a purple mohawk, wearing earrings, an eyebrow ring, a lip ring, and adorned with tattoos galore.

If you've never seen clips from Beyond Scared Straight, check it out. Come on, I love Lucy. The codes of the day that Lucy and Ricardo slept in separate beds. Today, you'd have, you know, got to have some partial nudity, not total, because family show, right? Mild profanity, constant sexual innuendos.

kids who don't show the slightest respect to their parents. Or compare Andy Griffith. to Stalker or Hannibal. Or compare Lawrence Welk. You say, who's Lawrence Welk?

Young people. Go online. And just go to YouTube and look for Lawrence Walk videos. Yeah.

This was a popular music show when I was growing up. Go to Lawrence Welk, watch that, and contrast that with the annual MTV music. Awards. Or watch an old Elvis movie. Where he shakes his hips.

That was controversial enough. Compare that to the latest, I don't even want to describe it. God in my book, but I'm not even going to describe it now just because kids could be listening. Latest Music video, rap music video. This stuff's been around for years and years and years, or watch an episode from Lassie.

and compare it to uh American Horror Story. Or compare Westside's story to natural born killers. or the old Flintstones cartoon show to South Park where adults swim. Yeah, yeah. It was a different world.

It was a different. World. Yeah, we had problems, but it was a far more innocent and family-friendly world. world. And when you go back to the founding of our nation and contrast it to where we've come today, oh.

My All right, let's grab one more call. Travis and High Point, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Michael, uh, your last caller, you might have had something before that while I was on the phone with the call guy, that you were talking about, uh and he was on the right track with the with the sons of God. Not being the fallen angel. And uh You know you were asking what was different about 'em?

And in Genesis four, twenty-six, Then began man to call upon the name of the Lord. That's what was different. And all men with evil besides the ones that were calling upon the name of the Lord. And in Genesis 5, in Genesis 6 is is where they say the sons of God were. the fallen angels.

But in Genesis five it's got the genealogy. And I'd like you to go to Luke 3, please. Luke three is the exact same genealogy. And the last verse of that genealogy It it specifically says Luke 338 Yeah. Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth.

Yeah.

So, why does Luke think that the sons of God were these same people that we think they were? But for some reason, uh Well, it just says that Adam no other verses in the Bible to back it up. They're supposed to be the fallen angels or the sons of God.

Well, first thing is the term sons of God is used for the angels, say, in the book of Job, for example.

So we have that evidence, sons of God, plural. That's one thing. I disagree. And then Jude and 2 Peter tell us about the angels that fell.

So, who were those angels that fell? It does. I agree that the angels fell, but in Hebrews, I think chapter 1 or 2. He says that he never called the angels Done. He says, and you know this, and this changes.

This is all from. No, but here's what you're missing, sir. To just try to educate you on this. The king in Israel was called God's son. That's one thing.

The children of Israel were called God's Son.

So the sun could be used. Right, and sons, plural, B'nei Elohim, means people of that class, of the Elohim class, hence angels. Elohim itself. This this is Michael Eisner. Not the Bible.

This is Michael Brown telling you what the Hebrew says. Can you read Hebrew?

Well, I can read the Bible. Can you read Hebrew?

God gave the Old Testament in Hebrew. Parable. Can you read the Hebrew language? God has preserved his word and gave it to him. Travis, can you read the Hebrew language?

I it's been translated. We're not cat Travis. Travis. Travis Can you answer a question? I just told you what the Hebrew meant.

I have a PhD in Semitic languages. I told you what the Hebrew meant. I knew that decades before I ever heard the name Michael Heiser. He knew that decades before he ever heard the name Michael Brown. All we're telling you is what the Hebrew says.

Why do you tell me that I'm wrong when you can't even read Hebrew? I don't live in High Point. If I'm telling you the traffic light you're sitting at is in Minnesota, But I'm not there to tell you that's wrong.

Now, we can differ, Travis, on the Bible. That's fine. We can We can differ in interpretation. That's great. But please don't make a mockery when I tell you what the Hebrew says.

All right.

Out of time. I'm so sorry. We'll continue this another day. Friends, go to askdrbrown.org right now and order your signed copy of Saving a Sick America. Uh