Welcome to Man Talk, a ministry sponsored by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where we're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and to point men to their God-assigned roles. Now here's your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. Well, welcome once again to Man Talk Radio.
I'm Will Hardy. And I'm Roy Jones Jr. And tonight we just like to talk to the radio audience out there, Roy, about the differences between disciple and a convert. And sometimes I think we get these two terms sort of mixed up and we think a lot of them run synonymously with respect to the definition. So what we want to do is just kind of walk through, you know, discipleship or a disciple, what is a disciple and identify with some type of terminology, what that disciple is and then leading into that convert or conversion faith.
No great introduction, Will. I think it's important for all of us as believers to understand the difference between the two. And especially as we're talking to men through our program and trying to get men moving forward for their families and for their communities and in the church, it's important to realize that you have a role as a disciple, if you choose to take that role. And that's what we were talking about earlier, but not everyone chooses that role.
And that's some of the things we'll clarify tonight, but being a disciple means investing in others and also giving of yourself to the utmost extent, which you'll clarify for sure in just a moment. So I did have to say a quick funny though, before we get started, you know, we oftentimes, for those of you don't know, I'm sure you realize this is not a live live show. We record it live. So if we make a mistake, it's live. Like when we started out, I did the check, check to make sure we were on because our mics weren't on right up to the last second.
But so you just definitely gave it away when you said, we'd like to talk to you tonight. And I think we did that the first couple of shows, but now we're doing it after, we're seasoned veterans now and we're still doing it. Exactly.
But you know, our bloopers happen with even the best of us. They do. That's right. That's why the rehearsed versions look so much cleaner on everything than the live.
But hey, we hope you men and ladies out there listening are enjoying the live version. So. Exactly. And, you know, so when we talk about disciple and Jesus, of course, said in Matthew 28, 19 and 20, for us to, he commissioned us to go, and he, he gave us authority. So he said, go out, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. So the authority that God has given us to disciple or be that follower of Jesus Christ takes us down that road to where you and I, we look at what Jesus did for us.
And we want to look at him as a role model. Exactly. But I think it's important to know that being a disciple is a choice.
Being a converted person, becoming a Christian does not make you the disciple. Right? That's right. You have to choose to die to self. You have to choose to, and scripture tells us to, you know, you have to be willing to hate your mother, father, brother, sister, pick, take up your cross and go. Correct?
Correct. So I think oftentimes there's so many things that we're trying to hang on to once we become followers of Christ, that we stay in that conversion phase as opposed to moving to discipleship phase. And the reason this is so important to me right now is we're going through a leadership meeting with several of our leaders from our talk, and we're doing the kingdom disciples from the Tony Evans teaches on.
And it's been really an awakening, an awakening series. And we're just in the third week of a study about this. And it's a, as long as I've been a Christian, I thought I understood it fully, but I'm getting an even clearer understanding of the role between the two.
You know, and that's, that's a dynamic series too, by the way, that, that you're undertaking. And, you know, we encourage all men, if you're in a small group to, to look at resources like this, that's available because, you know, it, those resources build character and it defines exactly who you need to be as a kingdom representatives, because everywhere we go, we should be representing Christ. Exactly. Because that may be the only Bible anybody ever sees. That may be the only church anybody sees, heard this shared the other day on the radio, or the only living Christ person that they see may be you. They may never step foot in church, may never open the Bible. And if your behavior or example is not what would be Christ-like, then you need to ask yourself, how can I improve my behavior, my integrity, all these things that people are looking to see, is it real or is it not real?
Exactly. And so when we talk about disciple, then we're talking about someone who is a follower, someone who learns from a teacher. So a disciple is one who is in the learning phase of their development before they go out and actually be that one who evangelizes the world. But what does a disciple of Christ, what should a person be looking for in Christ in order to be that ideal or model disciple?
Well, that's a great question, Will. I think God's going to deal with each of us individually about what needs to be straightened up within our lives as we're truly becoming disciples of Christ. But I think at the very least, if you were to put it into one sentence, you would say, I have died to self, which means no longer am I worried about my provisions, no longer am I worried about my self-satisfaction, no longer am I worried about the wants of the world or serving myself, I'm all about following God, Christ and serving others. And that may mean you separate yourself as it talks about in scripture from your family or your friends that you've been around for around for so long because you're choosing the lifestyle to be Christ-like and be the disciple of Christ, which means you're constantly learning, grasping more of his concepts of living out the disciples life. And one thing you mentioned earlier, as we get ready to go out and make disciples of the nation, I think when we get on that path from conversion to discipleship, I think Christ is equipping us for that journey.
And it's a work in progress till the day we leave, till the day we go home. Yeah, that's so true because true worshipers and Jesus talked about this when he said, talking to the woman, he said, the true worshipers shall worship the father in spirit and in truth. So a disciple has to be a worshiper of the teacher who they are following. Now we're not saying worshiping man, but what we're saying in the concept of what we're talking about is that Jesus is the center of our admiration and he's the center of our worship. So worshiping him leads us to down that narrow path, as Jesus talked about, you know, we got the broad path and narrow path. So the broad path leads to destruction and narrow path leads to life eternal.
Right. So in Matthew it says, seek ye what? First the kingdom of God.
Okay. So I think that's the defining moment between being a convert and becoming a disciple when you can totally embrace that. And it truly is part of your every action and every step that you're looking to God first. I think you're understanding what it means and looking to Jesus first, you are understanding what it means to be a disciple because did Jesus ever do anything without going to the father first?
No, he said everything I do. I say of the father and the father and the father has basically given me to say it. So the father was first, then Jesus, and we have to do the same, right? So Jesus through the father has to be our very first step. Exactly.
So seek ye first. So then I think even in my own life, so what's great about our conversation is that I can speak to this from experience. And we've often talked about a man with an opinion has no argument with a man with experience. And in this case, I'm one of those guys that was standing on the sidelines and God woke my heart up and said, look, you know, what have you done for the kingdom? So in that moment you start to embrace, wait a minute, there's, I've just been a convert all these years.
There was nothing measurable for that I could put in front of that had done for the kingdom. You know, and how we look at Christ, I think also plays a part in our understanding of what it means to be a disciple. So if we worship Jesus Christ as our savior and Lord, and we follow the teachings that he laid out for us to do with the aid of the Holy Spirit. Now a disciple also means one who is a servant. So you talked about that a little bit saying how you was one on the sidelines and not getting in there serving. Right. So the importance of servitude when it comes to being a disciple would be.
Yeah, it would be extremely important in that role, right? Because, you know, Christ served everybody that he was around, right? He fed us spiritually with nourishment, but he also was, he was always taking care of other people and either in the teachings or the healing or the loving on or the counsel to the disciples.
He was always taking care of other people. So when you think about a person who always takes care of other people, they have a servant's heart. That's the way you would typically describe them as a servant's heart, right? And the person who's standing on the sidelines, like I was, was what I call not really taking, but it was sitting there waiting to be served in terms of the spiritual nourishment in the church, show up on Sunday, waiting to be fed by the pastor, have a Sunday school class, maybe be a part of those types of things.
So that's the difference. You transition from being served to serving in that whole transition of where you're seeking God first. And see that Jesus was an example behind that because in John 13 five, he talked about and did servanthood things in washing the feet of the disciples. And so, so he said, I'm, I'm serving you. And in this capacity, even though he was Lord of Lord and creator of all things, he humbled himself enough to say, as I do, so should you.
Yes. And if the, if the Lord almighty can do it and humble himself to do that for his disciples, then who are we not to get engaged and start serving our Lord? That's right.
The Lord, he is the only one who is in a position to say, you know, number one, he was sinless, but number two, he is the only one who has the right way, because he said, I am the way, the truth and the light. And so being a servant demonstrates love. Would you agree with that?
Absolutely. So what greater way to show love than to serve someone else? And Jesus said, greater love have no man than this, then he should lay down his life for friends.
That's right. So, uh, when we come back after the break, we're going to continue to go back after the break, we're going to continue the conversation, uh, with a disciple versus convert. Talking and walking Christian men's ministry would like to invite you to our monthly men's breakfast held every first, third and fifth Friday of each month. You enjoy fun fellowship in the word of God. As we break bread together, the meetings are held at first Christian church, one one three zero North main street, Kernsville, North Carolina.
We start promptly at six 30 AM and have a hard stop at eight o'clock AM. Come join your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. Welcome back to Man Talk Radio. And so Roy, when we were talking on the break and we were given some things about how a disciple should be a, uh, a worshiper, a disciple should be a servant. And, you know, in that process of learning, uh, after a while, they're going to have to go out and now take what they've learned and witness. So I think that would be sort of like the third element of this disciple, uh, understanding disciple and what a disciple should be doing, going out and witnessing to others.
Well, that's a good point, Will. One of the things I think sometimes we confuse is you always got to be talking about the, um, the love of our Lord and the love we have for him. When oftentimes people are already watching, they see your behavior. And I've shared this before a friend of mine used to say, who passed us recently, like your actions are speaking so loud.
I can't hear a word you're saying. So I believe if we truly are in that servant's heart and that mindset that we will show and demonstrate what the love of Christ is all about. And then, yeah, it's great to be able to share your testimony and be able to share your faith and the plan of salvation to folks. And, but I think the lead into that is going to be by them seeing your actions.
They're going to see your countenance is set, your, your heart set, you're serving others. And one thing you mentioned as well about the discipleship piece too, Will, that we need to be very cognizant of is that, um, you're a student and in order to be a student, you've got to do what? You got to study and you have to read and you have to pray. And I think that's one of the most functional and key elements of this whole journey is that when going back to seek ye first the kingdom of God, well, you've got to go into the kingdom and before the father be a prayer to start that, right.
To start the day. And you need to be in the word every day. And I would say every, at least every man that you talk to maybe 99 out of a hundred, uh, uh, I'm going to say they don't read enough and they probably don't pray enough.
Um, if we were to go out and survey the middle street and they were totally honest with us, because, you know, we, we even see the numbers across the church, how many people are reading their Bible daily versus weekly versus monthly. And, you know, I think they're depending on to be fed on Sunday. Exactly. And, and just being fed on one day without reinforcing one spiritual heart and life during the week, you know, it's just like, uh, uh, eating food on Monday and then fasting for six days. Exactly. And nobody listening would, would choose to do that unless they were going through a time of fasting to, to seek God at a deeper level and for more clarity. But nobody's going to say, well, I'm not going to eat. I'm not going to skip food for six days, just out of, just for the sake of skipping it with no biblical purpose behind.
So to roll that around, why would you skip missing time with your father for six days in a row? Exactly. And a person who confesses, uh, the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and wants to be that, uh, disciple of Jesus and want to be able to witness you won't or can't have a witness to anyone if your life has no direct meaning to you, because we're not walking in the way in which the Lord Jesus Christ called us to walk. Right. So qualify what you mean, no direct meaning to you, to yourself.
How would you describe that person that has no meaning to their life? Well, what that means is a person who simply, uh, gets fed on one day a week and simply, uh, comes and says, uh, well, you know, that one day on Sunday, that's enough to get me through the week until I get my motor recharge either during a weekday Bible study or, you know, during Sunday morning again. But between that time, there's a lot that the enemy is throwing at you. Oh, without question, when we talked about distractions earlier, while we're having dinner, right. About distractions.
And I think people fail to realize, um, because things are so smooth in their normal day to day life for most people, all this, we've got hurdles that we're dealing with or some sort of challenges at some point in time that we're having to fight through. But I think if we were in some of the third world countries where they didn't have all the distractions and all the things that we have, there would be no question where most of their time is spent. And we've heard that from many, many, many people overseas, the missionaries, pastors that come back, you know, those folks are worshiping during their praise time and during the Bible study time for hours on end. Exactly.
And then through the week, they're, they're into it for hours on end. And I think that's where we miss it. We don't get the full blessing if we're not really chasing after God, he's already pursuing us and think about if we start chasing him at that level, think of the amazing journey that's going to provide for us as followers of Christ.
That's right. If Jesus said, if you seek me, you'll find me, you know, but you gotta be seeking. You gotta be one who seeks. Now in, uh, Matthew chapter 18 and verse number three, Jesus said, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. So to me, uh, conversion is a necessity in order for you to begin any type of journey in Christ.
Agree totally. Like we were chatting earlier, that's the first step. And I think a lot of people stop at the, at the step, at that first step. And again, back to speaking with experience, you know, that's the journey that I got hung up on early in life was, and I think part of it was that no one had, had helped me along in that journey to understand discipleship and growing in the kingdom. So I was stuck in that baby step, if you will, for many, many, many years. And I think some people know that they need to go beyond that, but they choose to stay there.
Back to our earlier, uh, dialogue was related to, don't want to get out of my comfort zone. Don't want to give up this particular part of my life. You know, my salvation is assured, but I still want to try to control these pieces.
I'm not ready to go all in to where it might mean losing friendships, might mean losing family because I took a stand on, on biblical standards versus following the world. And see when you, when you let the world dictate your life and the pattern of your life, then I think again, you know, we're heading down a steep cliff of disaster because we have to understand not only that God has given us what we need to be equipped to handle the enemy on a daily basis, but without us doing, like we said earlier, getting into the word and, and these type things, we are not putting on the whole armor of God. So when we talk about the conversion, it's, it's an absolute necessity. Number one, but conversion also has to do with you turning away. It's a, it's a spiritual turning away.
So you're turning away mentally, mentally, you're turning away, uh, your lifestyle, your old lifestyle, you're turning away all of your own self desires. And now you're turning toward, uh, God in a true, and let me say that one more time, true Godly repentance, because I think we have repentance messed up too. We think, okay, uh, I did something wrong.
I came in late for the church service, uh, 15 minutes late and everybody's looking at me. Oh Lord, I need to repent of that. So, so I think we have this, this misconstrued ideal on the true meaning of Godly repentance. See, Godly repentance, if you truly don't want to, uh, let go of something, then you're going to hold on to it and that's going to interfere with your growth. But if you truly want to let go and let God bless you in the way in which he has designed and laid out in sacred scripture, then the road would be a lot easier for you to travel.
No doubt it would be much easier, but most people don't choose the, the narrow path for that very reason. They like too many things are sitting in the wide path. I think they get to that salvation assurance with a, with a changed heart.
But then because of the distractions and the noise and the system, as we always talk about, they just stay kind of in that idle territory. And we know that God does not like lukewarmness. He speaks to it in the scripture. And I think that's, um, that's something we should all heed out of the love of God.
We should fear those types of things that if he doesn't like lukewarmness, then you need to choose a path and go be pretty clear and know that he's going to take care of it. I was listening to one of the pastors this morning on the way into work. And one of the things he was talking about, you know, we're always, we always pray for things we need and always things we, we should have and have to have. And, and he made one of the statements was, and forgive me, I don't have the scripture in front of me, but was that if truly we're seeking God first to begin with, and he knows our hearts and our heart's desire. And if we're honoring him, his comment was pastor's comment was he already knows what you would love to have, but he thinks it's going to be even greater because he knows more about what you need. And if you're honoring him, you're not worried about those wants. So he's going to come along and do things in your life that you never imagined. Wow. It was pretty amazing.
It was, so it made total sense when he said it, but we usually get that reversed. We do. We try to handle everything and then go to God. You heard me say crisis control. I mean, we're bad about crisis control.
If you listen to this thing, if you say we're not, we, we are, you know, we are, we're bad about crisis control. We go to God when we need help from the crisis. See, and radically, true godly repentance will radically alter one spiritual direction in life. So we're talking about a change in mind, a change of how you view not only yourself, but how you view others in relation to God, a change in your affections, a change in your feelings, a change in your will, and a change in your volition.
So it's a complete change. It's not just saying that I'm going to repent of this or repent of that. So I think when we, when we understand true godly repentance, man, when you truly understand that you cannot just say casually, I repent, you got to with your whole heart, get down on your knees, get out on your face if necessary, and, and, and, and let God deliver you from whatever it is that's keeping you bound. God wants you free today, doesn't he, Roy? Oh yes.
Without question. I mean, that's the whole reason he sent Jesus to die for us was so that we'd have his full blessing and freedom. And you know, in this, in this short time that we have, we just can't give these two topics enough justice, but we, we thank God for you listening, man. Again, T-A-W-C-M-M, go to the website, join us for, for breakfast. There's all kinds of events that will be coming up and we love you. And we're just two brothers from different mothers reaching out to you. Yes, indeed. And remember, man, all you've got to do is call on his name and believe he died for you. That'll assure your salvation.
Absolutely. Thank you for listening and God bless you. Have a great week, everybody. As we conclude today's show, T-A-W-C-M-M, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, are building a community of men to be servant leaders in their home, communities, churches, and work environment. Check us out at our website for upcoming events and regular scheduled meetings. Don't forget to send us an email for topics that you would like us to visit in the future. Thank you for joining us today on Man Talk. Visit us at tawcmm.com.
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