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Vaccine Mandate - Texas Abortion Law - Revisiting The Past

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer
The Truth Network Radio
September 17, 2021 12:00 pm

Vaccine Mandate - Texas Abortion Law - Revisiting The Past

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer

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September 17, 2021 12:00 pm

Attorneys Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer talk about the COVID-19 Vaccine mandate and whether or not it's legal.  They also discuss the Texas abortion law banning abortions at six weeks and Josh and Joe will revisit some past issues discussed on the show including a case involving a deadly dog mauling.  

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The Outlaw law. Your we talk about the COBIT vaccine mandate talk about the new controversial abortion law in Texas and we will discuss things that we talked about in past the court has said on this and this is what you think about him and you will and now Outlaw will Josh Whitaker we are on the air. The Outlaw law. You, Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Haber law firm 46 combined years experience between these two.

They have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina yeah there to lawyers they have five offices have to divided up that the cut themselves up into several big not getting an end. Anyway, I'm working better consumer advocate and we talk legalese every single week here on the outliers guys welcome in a lot of things that we get into real estate closings, estate planning and administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law and we that this long enough that we are getting feedback will talk about that just a second, but I welcome you and hope you guys had a great couple weeks. We appreciate it more than we were back. We had our listeners may have noticed we had a replay last week because her friend Joe's took him a while to get over the COBIT. It's no joke.

Tobit is no joke in Morgan.

I think you're onto something with cutting ourselves into several pieces of cloning ourselves finding some way to multiply the two of us we got a lot going on but yeah that's right man. Unfortunately born here last week had had to take some additional time to recuperate and the COBIT is no joke.

I can confirm that the Tobit is no joke out Joe.

How did you talk to you second and answered my own question here but it really really drag you down. You weren't hospitals in a work in the hospital on a ventilator any of these horror stories that we hear about you are doing good. No, Josh.

I was not doing good how everyone can see me the picture of health, very, very fit muscles everywhere know I'm kidding, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not necessarily an obese individual.

I exercise fairly regularly. I eat decently.

I'm a 35-year-old gentleman, not necessarily the most high-risk person I don't have comorbidities. I don't have risk factors necessarily so. You know, did not have the easiest time with the COBIT and it's really a cautionary tale. The thing about it that that's so difficult and that's so worrisome is you know you can kind through conventional wisdom out the window. In some cases because you can't really predict how it's going will affect every individual person and it's kind of a roll the dice and I know this is a low likelihood that that someone that is healthy that's younger that doesn't have comorbidities, you know my not be the highest chance that they're going to have a real difficult time or have some kind of crazy complications, but can it can really happen. Anybody I think is is the lesson, and let me jump in as almost like a neutral party here, you guys did your first. I do know a handful of shows in studio so I'm very familiar with the physical presence of both Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer and they are in very good shape and Joe, you know you know you you had something dull your way in and not just you, your entire family. Yeah the whole family got it and you know my kids fared very well. The kids have actually had it twice now and did very well known they were sick, really.

Both times my wife did not have unit she deftly got sick, much less sick than I did on what you mean. We did that we did that episode of the show. I was probably I guess I was like three or four days in the COBIT at that point was actually feeling pretty good and was had thought I was kind of on the mend and was getting better hand, and I think at the same time I was out being realistic in my understanding of how COBIT works and you go through that acute viral phase virus takes over. You feel real crap you got the fever then it's really that a 7 to 10 window for you get into that inflammatory phase and that's when it can go into the lungs. You can have the issues and so you know I started feeling better. I got the antibody infusion really started feeling better, and it was like eight or nine days in a start coffin.

I get this nagging cough and coughing up blood and is very confusing to me because I'm feeling better in other ways, but I start coffin of this blood and so I go into the urgent care date kind of freak out a little bit worried about blood clots and that having to go to the ER when the Aiken states all of our listeners without any hesitation. It is one place you don't want to be right now, at any cost.

It's it's at an emergency room absolute madhouse and I think we we.

If you don't do it if you don't work in the healthcare industry. If you're not an emergency room. The people that are there, what they're dealing with every single day. They really need to be commended and supported because it's an absolute madhouse. There I think that's great public service announcement. We really don't understand what they go through on a daily basis. There have a tough time really all across the country with the front liners just given it up.

They can't be around it there burned out. So again you know you need to do what you need to do to be healthy, but I agree with you Joe. Stay away from the ER unless you absolutely have to go and you know there was a time early on in the pandemic where there was.

They went to great links to separate people who had come of it from people who didn't have covert they do all the screening has gone at least at the Arlington there was no discretion. There was no organ put people we suspect have covert over here everybody else to go over here.

There's one waiting room.

Everybody's going in it. So if you have covert you're there with several people who do can.

It's not a good situation to be in, so if you can avoid that, avoid that. But yeah double the double lung pneumonia, which really freaked me out when I heard it because that's what you hear and then people die. That's what you hear but I was kinda stunned by that the doctors were concerned at all about it you there. They basically took the position of a this is what happens when you get when you get COBIT. This is what happens to a lot of people, people end up with this covert viral pneumonia. It's just a thing he's got a deal with it, so they weren't overly concerned my oxygen levels were good. I could breathe in a really had was very fortunate did not have as bad of a time is so so many other people have had out there, but yes it's taken a while man it's taken a while. I still don't feel normal. Still definitely have the brain fog the brain fog is one of those things that you can't really conceptualize until it happens to you and and it's the strangest things of the show is terrible. I'm hundred percent chalk it up to the brain fog, blaming it on the brain fog. Gotcha, ensure you have so much going on with Zach. I'm here. I can breathe. I have some of my faculties back every day's little bit better never lost my taste loss must Mills can start with lightly smell some things now so everyday's a little bit better me one thing I'll say to anybody that's out there you know we we thought we thought about the vaccines bring talk about the vaccine mandate today.

You know, take care of yourselves. You know, definitely take care of yourselves get vaccinated, especially if your high risk or have any kind of risk factors and one thing I will say is the monoclonal antibody treatment center there becoming more prevalent.

There was a lot of less talk about them early on but lately you seen an increase in the sinners that will give that treatment you you see more people finding out about them, and men that's really I know personally of several people who ended up going and who have gotten that treatment and who made note really gotten better.

Almost immediately after it. So it seems like there's really a low risk high reward factor with that treatment so you know don't sit around if you get sick, don't just sit around at home and and no coalescence. Wait wait to get better just take care yourself. Take your vitamins don't get the treatment if you can and and hopefully we will one day return return to that sense of normalcy that we have dreamed of on the show for so many weeks now with Joe while while that's an unfortunate story that does set up one of the things were to talk about today. The news I was kind to us this week and we've got a lot of legal items that we can pull from the news and and I'll remind everybody when when Joe and I sit here and and and talk about legal news were talking about it really just as attorneys who are interested in the legal process and and kind of figured out what's what's going on or not. Here to make you feel bad about an opinion you held we had someone calling this weekend. I think we have we may have offended them. Somehow they were they were not happy with something we had talked about last week, but on the replay but were not here to upset anybody. We're really just some these are high, highly charged things that were talking about were not here to say your opinion is wrong.

Say your opinions right we really just examining the legal statutes, cases, arguments that are going on behind-the-scenes and kind of looking at what has happened is a one of these renal get this week is our president.

Biden did come out with a pretty strong I'm called it. I guess most people calling it a COBIT mandate and sorting a look at what that is and they were not looking at is is right is wrong. Were looking at is this is legal you make a good point Josh week we talk a lot about the whole point of what were doing is we're not going to take a side were not taken opinion, we have lamented the fact that when you watch the news these days year you get such a slant you get such a political bias, be it a conservative bias a liberal bias. You don't really get just a straight factual approach and so that's really what were doing so, you know, if we present a topic if we discussed something unit working to do our very best to examine it from that neutral legal perspective to look at both sides of its subordinate unit try to present both sides of the argument and that doesn't necessarily mean we're advocating for either position were just trying to speak about it as fairly and neutrally as we can select you say we did have that the caller got seen a little bit upset with this and I'm not sure if that person is listening. They've they are weak. We wanted no want to keep listening. We do care about you and and we want to emphasize the fact that were not necessarily siding with anyone. When we discussed these things were just trying to present it from that neutral perspective and can talk about all sides of the argument, like an attorney would do and and think about our guys will go ahead and that set up our first break and just tell everybody out there, including the listener that called in and left the message for you that had the colorful language that it's okay to leave a question that we will answer it on a future show the number to call is 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186. You can also email your questions that you may have, to the guys, and these questions will be answered on an upcoming show the website you can go there and kick the tires. The alloy got a ton of stuff to talk about today will be back right after this coming up next. We continue our discussion of the vaccine mandate and whether it is legal or not and Fuquay Marina real estate closings, estate planning and administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law folks, if it's legal were talking about it on the outlaw lawyers. The number to call is 800-659-1186 if you got a legal question you want answered. 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the show will answer those questions in an upcoming shows were looking for that COBIT is all the rage guys take away Morgan wanted to spend some time big news. Pres. Biden kinda made is what were calling a COBIT mandate. So push to get folks vaccinated, vaccinated, and in use basically every tool that he thought.

I'm assuming that he thought was legally in his in his arsenal. I judge you see is speech.

I did see a speech Josh as a coven victim.

I pace especially close attention to the COBIT news can yeah I saw this I think everyone saw the speech and and you know, if you keep up with the news and current events. It is been as we would say on the show a very hot hot button type of issue and I think were CL a lot of development there. You see a lot of of you know, leaders in various areas of the government.

Various states basically coming out saying that there and fight this tooth and nail very interesting rhetoric going around on both sides. But, but, yes, long, long answer short, I did see that Josh, I have it is very rare that we see something that divides the country so soon so so it just 50-50. Almost them and people you know we talked a lot of people who were it's bad about time he did this he should've done this a long time ago.

Everybody's in vaccinated like all the prongs think this is a six prong plan defy if I remember correctly, and then you have a lot of people that cannot got rubbed the wrong way kindly was dividing the country. Us against them running out of patience.

Yet a lot of language that that certainly is going about a topic people, dug in home on whatever side you're on. Unless something's happened to change her opinion personally or in your personal circle. It seems like everybody's dug in the where they're going to be.

I'm personally one of those folks you nonvaccinated.

I know problem with the vaccination with the rhetoric and and become the way you put this across, which is not legal is just feelings, but I thought it was kind of odd for a sitting president to talk to two halves of the country like this. Yeah it it it's definitely odd it said it did different type of approach because you would assume you would assume that you never really want to alienate any portion of your constituency and that way and in the counter that argument again given both as the argument is you know there's a lot of folks who are just frustrated with anyone who is hesitant to to get that vaccine and you know there's a lot of people who look at the unvaccinated as being a big driving force in the pandemic and neither of us are scientists. Neither of us are trained medically to really dive into the scientific aspects of the discussion, but you know in there there's arguments to be made both ways as to you know how how much the the unvaccinated are attributing to the spread are causing further issues but that's really the argument there and then you got the folks who are very anti-vaccine, and their argument is you know essentially that this is something that hasn't been around very long. They may be a little hesitant because they've heard of it are either anecdotal or even verify reports of people having some adverse reactions and and they may believe in their own community. There's there's again when you got to sides of an argument where people feel so strongly about their position. You get this strong strong conflict and yet it taking the legal aspect, but it was a little bit surprising to see the tone and the rhetoric from the president as far as really going hard on that one portion of the population and and and coming down like that, but again people are very frustrated. Kind of a sidebar Joe but I don't of ever told you this, but I was kind of on the fence there for a while of what it vaccinated are and are not yet aware we meet with a lot of people, law firms were essential businesses and and we never stop meeting.

We did as much as we could be a zoom in and virtual.

There's a lot of stuff in our day-to-day practice were you just have to sit down so wheat we set down a lot of people in and cited exciting get the vaccine that ever tell you I decided to do it with tip me over. You never tell me that Josh says what's in the newest Chris rock special at the time and Chris rock was was talking about the vaccine. Now he was hesitant and and then he said he said something that really resonated with me said I don't know it's a Tylenol. I just know when I have a headache and I take Tylenol. I feel better and that's what did it was no doctors, no science involved. Chris rock. I was like that's a good point and then I think that the vaccine next week. See if you are if you are a presidential advisor or you could just told Joe Biden he could just get brought out a TV like they used to do when you're in grade school in the ACC tournament would come on just rollout that the TV and just put Chris rock on and play that clip for the people when they go boom 100% vaccination rate I like to think I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I've been to school little bit in my garage as electrician and I've got some good thing. I got some good StreetSmarts.

I got some book smarts, but that's what put me over the edge. Chris rock and I think you know I'll never talk to Chris rock. Maybe one day years is absurd. He knows he made a difference. Somehow, you know, I think Chris rock him he might be a listener. He could've been that the person that called in with the colorful language to let us know that his opinion about about what we talked about the other day but yeah but it's a good point man you don't wheat we are scientists were not doctors. We don't know a lot about a lot of things that we put into our bodies. But like you said, they just work at the same time I'm out think it's unfair for anybody to to be slightly hesitant because it was a different process.

You know it's it was a quick process and I think it's really a testament to hear the scientific advancements and everybody, coming together. There's a lot of things that she could look at is positive from it, but it's not a stretch to see how some people might have some hesitancy to that but at at the same time at at some point you you you do trust the science to an extent because like you said you if you can take Tylenol good to Proven how much research are you really and I do on that but regardless you know diving in more to the substance of what the president announced so that what we really get a jump into is the fact that to sum this up as simply as we can the president basically said that any business with 100 employees or more is gonna be mandated that all their employees must be vaccinated, and I think they laid out their coming going on what OSHA has a establishes a couple of shows ago we talked about you know we talked about your employer can probably make you get one now is an at will state that that's part of the employment and you don't meet when these exceed a religious exception. Medical exception didn't, you're probably going to have to get one anyway. If your employer so chose. I know a lot of employers small medium large Fortune 500 were on the fence about requiring it because of the of the brush back and so I think a lot of lot of those employers are probably pretty excited about Biden's announcement is now it's off their shoulders to governments requiring it. Nothing we could do about it. Dear liability goes away. Perceived personal and civil liability goes away and just come up by just made it a lot easier to I saw somewhere were a lot of unions.Coca-Cola Johnson & Johnson's big companies all since some follow-up questions because his mandate was announced, I didn't see an effective date. Maybe you did it look deep enough I guess. But no one still really knows how this is good.

No working with exact penalties will be deadlines and if someone does exempt out. How often are you a test on who pays for those test so there's still there still a lot out there that's not even been maybe they talked about it that exceeded yeah I'm not.

I haven't been checking every second for updates, but my understanding is that the actual the actual black letter law portion of the mandated self how it is going to play out. In fact, I don't know that that's been released were you can really dig into the substance of it.

I think it's just been talked about in broad strokes, like we talk about now that penalty wise.

I know know what I've heard is been. I believe it was gonna be up to 14,000 per violations which would be again. That's a maximum penalty. That's talking about, know that it's good to be 14,000 pop but you you were Hayes outside of the legal issue which again will get into the legal aspect of it and what the authority is for this and whether it's permitted outside of that, you got a lot of practical considerations that you mention it, Josh, how do you how do you enforce it.

How do you who's going to police it.

A lot of the things we've Artie mentioned. We discussed proof of vaccination. There's a lot of issues that it raises and this encompasses several several several several businesses and it's going to be a widescale operation, and there just a whole lot of practical aspects of this that are going to have to be flushed out as well. So this covers almost everybody ramming your federal employee got a get it you know if your hospital or someone is getting federal money yet to get it if you work for company has 100 employees. You gotta get it. You know, it really when they say this is a final push to get the unvaccinated vaccinated. This covers almost anybody definitely anybody was out there working. This is probably going to get pretty close to the cover and you yeah think that not everyone, but it but a substantial portion of the population is gonna be impacted by this so again, it'll be very interesting to see how how it plays out. I think without question. I think the safest bet that we could ever make right now is your Tennessee substantial legal challenges to the mean people of Artie come out and promise that that was gonna be the case so you're going to see a ton of pushback you're going to see a ton of attempts to strike this down and I guess the question is gonna be as hot. What does it accomplish before you know these legal challenges really put the hall to it.

How I it is interesting to stick to to think about. From a strategic perspective, just as far as what what they were really trying to accomplish because I'm sure they understood and knew that these challenges were going to be forthcoming, ready to take a short break down while long as Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm will talk more legalese coming back. Here's a number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 if you got any questions for the show. Maybe something happened in this discussion that has caused ago I got a question well you call the number, leave a message and they will get in touch with the 800-659-1186 or you can email a question to the program and will answer on the future show that his were back right after this can Pres. Biden make you get a vaccine. Maybe we'll talk about get Josh and Joe J&J 46 combined years experience offices in Raleigh, Gardner Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Marina again real estate closings, estate planning, administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law. If you got any questions about your current situation. If you got a legal question number to call is 806 five 911 $0.86 800-659-1186 or you can email a question to the show will use it in the future program is questions at the outlaw law. is well were really into covert guys.

So continue that discussion. Josh, I thought you did a great job that tease and and asking the question can Pres. Biden make you get a vaccine in it.

For some reason it gave me the mental image of literally Joe Biden coming to your door is busting through the wall like the, the Kool-Aid man hand holding you down and injecting you with the vaccine on the water popped in my head as one through my covert brain can I just say that sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit right there and does patient money a lot is the best thing that had on and a long time. So being that and must watch TV is a good segue to completely get off topic before we get back on topic, you mentioned Saturday Night Live and I think I think it's important to mention the very very tragic terrible news. I know it hurts your your heart just like hurt my Josh about the passing of Norm McDonald terrible you know it did norm, so you have to know little bit about my backs or someone how much older than Joseph, I'm an older man. At this point in my life just to tell you one of my old man stories. We, my family did not have cable. We got cable was available to us in when it came out to where we lived in when I was in the six grade sets and I got MTV at the comedy Channel and and things change.

All I did was watch the comedy Channel every minute that I was home and kids in the hall old SNL whatever they played adding a scene every kids in the whole episode 25 times but one of my favorites of all time was norm McDonald I just loved to hear me E root jokes. So if you watch a lot of standup comedians a lot of her situation old some of her political and they all have their own styles but norm wrote jokes and he also didn't care if he thought they were funny so if you question of norm McDonald if he told a joke in the audience laughed.

That was okay, but if he told a joke in the audience didn't laugh. He is like a dog in his late double down on it and just went harder. So if you ever seen them on a roast or something on that with the folks are laughing really really digs and I was always funny to me.

Many was fantastic, and it's terrible. You said it one of the most refreshing things about them is, he wasn't really worried. Like a lot of folks are they. It was funny it was funny and he didn't pander to anybody. He didn't pull any punches and just really unfortunate man tell you what I do know that it completely unrelated to the topic were talking about farming, but it it it is current day and 61 he battled cancer for 10 years and he performed right up until the end. And if you see if you if you go on social media. You see all the tributes from fellow comedians and that in itself and and actors in and people in the business in just every day people and how they responded to his passing shows you what kind of impact at it. He was the favorite comedian of a lot of comedians and that that really tells you something.

So anyways, back, back to confirm that depressing news back to the more exciting and lively topic of the covert mandate so jumping back into it, you know, we talked that we talk a lot about some of the issues and we haven't really talked much any and all of this is I guess to appoint this speculation because we haven't we haven't seen the actual executive order which is how this is going to be passed down. There's going to be an executive order. We haven't seen the language of it so some of this is speculation but but I think it's it's safe to speculate that the mechanism of action. The way that this is gonna have to be enforced, which we have kind of talked about. We don't know exactly how they can enforce it. But the way there and you get about this is through OSHA basically so you know OSHA been around for a while. It's the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and kind of had some issues with recently. As far as their bid there being some allegations that it's understaffed.

It's underfunded. It's really ill-equipped to do what it's already doing and so there's there's gotta be system concerns. Assuming that this does pass the legal challenges that are to come at it, whether oceans can even be equipped to enforce it to the degree that it's it's gonna need to be enforced because I think I read somewhere that it's some 80 million people are going to be affected by this is no is no way you know that what we talked about it with like you said when when you have is when a part of this six prong effort is requiring basically conserves football games going and requiring for every thing the prevaccination and/or test, but the enforcement is when people think it means almost a scare tactic know and and maybe that's what's needed. I'm not here to argue it's in is right or wrong, but when you think about practically especially as an attorney, like wow you can enforce this. Certainly there's penalties but it just seems nearly impossible. I did it. You have to be almost like a military state to enforce this to the degree to make it effective. It would seem to me anyway yeah and so here this is that I'm reading right now the OSHA at the end of the trumpet ministration had 862 federal inspectors, which is is less than 100 less than at the end of the previous two administration so you're talking about but listless add that 100 back you're talking about a 6000 inspectors that are to be tasked with enforcing this potentially minute. Seems like there's.

There would have to be a massive upscaling but but but that's the speculated mechanism of action so you know we talking about whether or not this can even be done. You know of a vaccine mandate in and of itself does not necessarily unconstitutional you seen no children required. If going to public school.

They know requiring vaccines for that suit and of itself, a vaccine mandate isn't something that's unconstitutional. I guess the question is whether the president has the power to enact the mandate in this manner without no action from Congress, basically it will be interesting. The legal challenges that were in a C like that's a geeks me out as an attorney is I want to see these complaints. I want to see these briefs. I want to I want to see how this gets attacked not because I necessarily against it, but because this is is with the legal system is built for you know if you think the presidents overreaching than the court systems really are only avenue to it to attack that yeah you know this can have to be enacted through the Department of Labor and the I guess the argument is unit from people who who would contest this is that the Labor Department can really only act pursuant to an act of Congress and their argument would be that unit without some legislation passed by Congress. This isn't something that can just be done just from the executive branch and I think the counter that argument is going to be anyone who says that basically would buy by establishment establishing OSHA Congress is granted the president's authority and he is well in his rights to do it. I've seen both sides that argument advanced wild speculation, like you said, I don't think it speculation to say that there's gonna be a ton of challenges to this but it'll be very interesting to see what route this takes and how deep this goes. And I would think there's a high likelihood that were to see this question before the Supreme Court and hand. However, they rule on it could really have some wide reaching ramifications on you know the president trying to do something like this in regards to anything in the future. There's definitely some challenges that get consolidated. There's going up there's going to be something in every you know in every court across the country. Nothing Supreme Court will eventually have to hear some sort of emergency you know that we don't have to weigh in and once they do, you know, I thought we talked about a case where the University of Indiana. Indiana was requiring students to be vaccinated by Challenges in the Supreme Court just chose not to act here and I was surprised by that.

I thought that would be a good first impression on him on how the court was going to rule things like this. Assuming I think at the time we kind of predicted there's more. This coming down the line and it would've been unit in a perfect world spring court when I heard that. Now to given you some indication on what they thought that so far nothing is really gotten to them. That's required them to cannot weigh in on this topic just yet, but it's come yet it it's common and you know just talk a little bit more about them. The meat of of what were looking at. You know she's going to be the method by which this is rolled out and and it looks like it you can use what's called the emergency temporary standard which basically determines that if a worker is in grave danger expose the great danger and a measure is necessary to prevent imminent harm, then OSHA does have the ability to rollout something like this. So it's really good hinge on that question of whether this would constitute exposure to great danger being around unvaccinated individuals at that. Sounds to me like that's can be cannot be the vehicle by which this is going to be advanced and then ultimately challenged as well. There's a lot out there there's a lot of this that that we can't wear out, as always.

Me and Joe were just speculating where that is legal geeks as is the word, but this is what we we thrive on this is what we like to dig into and I tell you what Joe, this is really again dividing the country right half. It seems like and just people are all over the spectrum on on what they believe, but doesn't come down to nine justices at some point I mean is very Fairpoint and another bowl prediction. We will we will talk about this again if you dictate I am almost certain absolutely guides the goal of the shows to help inform, to educate and if you got any questions about what we've been talking about today at any point during the show, you can always give us a call 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your information, there leave your question there. We will use it in upcoming program or if you have a legal question regarding yourself and your situation.

I was the one of the attorneys at Josh Whitaker and Johanna Whitaker and Hamer law firm will be in touch with you and again offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough Fuquay Marina there there for use of folks. Just remember, we need to take a short break ring to continue the legal conversation with Josh and Joe in just a few minutes so don't go anywhere because there's more outlier on the way coming up next. We will talk about the controversial new abortion statute out of the state of Texas. That's where the offices are located real estate closings, estate planning and a ministration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law there covering it. Folks in those offices, and got any questions legally.

Here's the number to call 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186.

You can also send questions of the program will use in an upcoming episode The website the kick the tires there. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate and we are getting into more legal discussion.

Now guys will Joe Cove. It's not going to happen in the nation over the past week and 1/2. There was a big, big news coming out of Texas Texas, took a stick up, weird turn on on abortion and so you know I think we all know Roe V Wade is landmark decision of the Supreme Court. It protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose to have an abortion without excessive government restriction.

That is what we called settled law and again I think this is a good time.

This is abortion is about the hottest topic as you can talk about is as much as coding vaccination is dividing the country. Certainly, the past however many 5060 however many years people are either against abortion or therefore abortion Drive ashes before.

How is your seasons one through 14.

Simpson's knowledge that stronger or weak man ambience with you and I can tell by the way, he asked that question that is very important to you and I know my answer is going to disappoint you, but if we put it on a scale of 1 to 10. I'm gonna it's like that. It's like a 1 to 1.7 so we somewhere in there that is so it is that's that's why Shirley never it never really couldn't tell you why, man. It's not that I disliked, it is just never really hit his heart. Maybe one day one day I'll discover it and it's amazing we can talk about resilience. To be honest the semi six-year-old watches all the Halloween for better or worse, my wife would prefer that he didn't watch it but he really likes the treehouse a horror episode which Joan for you is this is the Halloween episode and I know that those are the ones I would actually watch you know that was generally speaking I see more of those episodes that I have of any other type of episode so you seen the one with the with Coto and King. When the aliens come down and they run 116 over Clinton's body is a climax. Actually that's I'm actually familiar with that and said the Bob Dole one is given a speech is coming. The topic is abortion.

And so he says you know abortions for all and it's booed and then he said okay abortions for no one, and he gets booed as an income CV uses alien logic and he says abortions for some tiny American flags for others nearby cheers. But with that being said, there's not a there's a more decisive issue that abortion is order here to change anybody's mind but this Texas law was big news got coverage everywhere and it it's an interesting statute and just unless you had a chance to read it so I have not dug deep into the actual you know actual substance of the statute itself.

I've seen the summaries I got a general understanding of what the statute says and essentially it it says that any pregnancy in which there's a heartbeat that can be detected cannot be aborted so effectively. What that means is if you're six weeks pregnant. You can have an abortion in the state of Texas because that's that's around when most of that fetal cardiac activity can be detected and and they don't punish the individuals of this good this is what makes this law weird because obviously as a state legislature. You cannot outlaw abortion to be in direct contradiction to Roe V Wade, and as soon as the Supreme Court got involved need be toasted.

We would just look foolish free for even trying and wasting the time so that I think the folks down and and in Texas at least in the legislature seem to be in there and gather there not for abortion they would they would allow them are pro-life and so they came up with statute really don't punish the young woman for the woman who may be getting an abortion, but they decided that there to give standing and a cause of action to anyone around that young woman who may have enabled her to have this procedure which from a legal perspective is is crazy I can think of anything else to compare it to, but they were there allowing people anybody me Joseph Morgan. You know, we could we could. We if we had a young lady that we knew he was was having abortion. We could in theory sue the person who took her to the clinic through the doctor who performed it, you can sue even that you have not been personally harmed.

That's usually a big tenet of of law. You can't recover damages unless you can show some actual harm and just given standing to anybody off the street and enacting civil penalties when I read the statute. I was so shocked I didn't really when it first came on the news adding a chance to really look at it and so since then. This is nuts. It is nuts and you said it best.

It's a truly truly novel approach.

If nothing else, you know, without getting into the ethics of it I or siding. Either way, with the pro-life or pro-choice aspect of the argument.

It is a truly novel approach to legislation and and like you said it's unique.

It's something that you don't generally see an end. Like you said, you know, there is a constitutional right there for the ability for a female to get an abortion and so what Texas does.

They take out that state act requirement, so they're not restricting it but they do kind of empower the average citizen and it is very very unique. The way that this is done very interesting and it's can be very interesting to see how this plays out because your effectively deputizing citizens and and it will, it could potentially lead to some some very interesting scenarios plan out as soon as this gets it in. There was an emergency petition to get for the spring coroners 54 Supreme Court was going to hear that the quickly says it wasn't right. No one had been harmed just yet but as soon as semi tries to act under this under the Department of Justice's, stepdad, my opinion is again whether you support Roe V Wade or not. It is the law and estate legislature can't, I would think can't circumvent it. And in this manner, and as soon as this has a right to challenge. I can imagine is goes much further. But it's the approach is the interesting part for attorneys again really believe it or not believe in abortion if you're for or against it.

This approach of taking the state out of it. Trying to make the citizens do the do the dirty work. I can imagine it flies yeah and in it is like you said it's a slippery slope. We say that a lot, but how many other things. How many other constitutional rights. Could you potentially circumvent if you just create an enforcement mechanism by which ordinary citizens can kind of police and do this and it it can be very it for some reason I just popped in my head like the worst reality show ever like dog the bounty Hunter, but some idiot hexes that just chasing people getting abortions all around the wheat we come we talk about how things get reported and and we talk about new stories get picked up and so this when when the Supreme Court identify for the vote to not touch it yet. You know it was a it was almost report like Ruby waves over this this rates God and you Supreme Court can overturn settled law, and none of that was true right.

I mean, the Supreme Court just didn't think this was right yet this record it, rubberstamp it and say Yep, Texas figured it out. They got their way around it.

None of that's happened Texas is advanced. This kind of kooky way of trying to get to where they wanted to get, but trust me, just like Biden's mandate will be challenge. This will be challenge them a million ways to Sunday and I think if we were to make one of her famous.

The outlier predictions.

This is going to be gone Sam down at practically semi-played out for me and practice like who's who's suing it.

In these cases generally you're talking about fairly early pregnancy and a lot of these cases. I'm just interested in no event in and up from a practical perspective, who is going to be filing these lawsuits and sue and I'm assuming it's gonna be a family member of the person and you got to assume a lot of times this is going to be a you have some situations you could have a scenario where you got a younger kid who has this happened to them.

They decided do it. I guess we get sued by their own parent and then there out 10,000 like I don't understand how it plays out in practice.

When I when I first heard the law the way I would way I thought about it a decadent anything about it that way betting that's I thought about Activision or someone just sitting outside to sit outside and yet they sit outside of the clinic that seems like a doesn't seem like that would cause any conflict or have the potential to incite violence whatsoever yet and I think this was meant to attack the people who are performing them and in others only so many of those people at any given geographic area and I that's kinda what I had in my mind when they that's what I think that's with every thing but yet the family disagrees or knows about it or is it mere you are, or mortgage. It seems like there's no anybody has standing is just here because I am with you on your on your like plan your again, practically speaking.

Plan out your hypothetical, yet someone sitting outside a clinic wait for someone to come to get any information on this person to file a lawsuit against them like you know what I mean like there's just there so many questions that I have about an hour would almost be interested to see. I agree with you it gets shut down pretty quickly. But assuming that it wasn't the pallet practically actually plays out in and who who uses this and and how much this is actually resorted to God be very interested to see that. But I don't think I will come to make a bold print. Another bold prediction that this this wraps up before we can even talk about it again, like I think something good happen is going at this name and to be all that's minimal tax. I will talk about it again will we will talk were very weak we we love to revisit these topics and give these update is one of our favorite favorite things to do to come back in rehash something that we've dived into what gentlemen lets was put a bow on this segment will come back will wrap up the program in the following separate your listing to the outlier's Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber. You can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm with offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Marina real estate closings, estate planning and administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law if it's a legal question they can answer it for you. 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the show will use them in an upcoming episode and check them out on the web, the go take a short break will come back will wrap it up right after this Joe and I revisit some old back on the outlier's Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber your hose. You can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm offices in Raleigh garnered Wellsboro and Fuquay Marina 46 combined years experience in folks we talk legal each and every week you're on the LLI or real estate closings, estate planning and administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law we get into the topics of the day if you got questions on the legal side for yourself.

You can get answers, here's the number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 if you want your question read on the air in an upcoming episode you go this and the website D outlaw Jonah and wrap it up Morgan. There's a few things I want to revisit things that we talked about in the past.

I know I saw a couple things pop up in the news and the big one. We talked about the dangerous dog statute North Carolina. We had a couple of incidents, a few months back. One of the incidents was a young lady young girl and her mom were killed in a very unfortunate situation.

Neighbors I don't know but I think it was a pitbull. But I will say next November exactly what type of dog. It was, but were attacked and in the loss of the lost their lives.

He will serve their little girl and it's been going on because the people that own the dogs. The course dogs were taken, they been held by the town to garner since then and responsive relocated a couple times hired an attorney made a filing were trying to get the dogs back and sets a story that local media has been following and in this past week.

The dogs owners, made their last plea for the first time we saw a lot from them by Joe Ettinger's a YouTube video.

They put out seem like they were trying to kinda blame the deceased little girl and and and her mom, which was which is, while the judge wasn't having any of that. Very good judgment presided over that matter and wasn't having yeah that's the very definition of a bold strategy to make a YouTube video in any manner disparaging child that lost their life to the hit to the to your dog. I can't.

It's hard to even comment on it. Man, it defies it defies logic in my brain.

I did not see the video I did hear about you told me about it, but men in the dogs back. We got we got a guy live down to since I live down south Rogers. Of the 603 way between Garner and Fuquay's balance between her Raleigh Garner decoy offices and and down here in garment really get police teasers is retiring but he's been up critical part of the story and I didn't double check the last I heard once the judge ruled against the dog owners. Those dollars are going to be euthanized on Monday, which is nothing to joke about her or make light about either, but kinda seems like you know. Finally, there's the other some justice not matter yeah and and like you said were not when I can experience that did the dogs are dogs. It's there, it's hard to to be angry with the dog for for its nature, you know, but at the same time. If the animals a danger to the general public. You know, this is it something that you gotta take care than it gives some finality and like you said, a sense of justice to to the family so I'm sure that's gonna be a comfort to them and then maybe I can we can put this one to bed. I still think will see the legislature that that one of the things the dog owners pointed out is that statute and I think we point out the same thing. It's got unclear you know what, what, happens, left up to Townsend that that statute probably needs to be ironed out so it's it's kind of a kind of open and shut. You don't have this this problem, but we also saw we talked.

We spent a good part of the Napster talking about the Leandra case, the case where the twenty-year case at times by education and funding that every kid is a constitutional right to a public education in we talk about some of the counties and will have as much population will have as much tax money and poor schools in you in Leandra.

The judge is trying to even us all out. The legislators don't necessarily agree we'll have time to dive into that one of them was back in the news again and I'm telling you, I think, until the day I leave this earth will be will be talking about Leander. I would be really honest with the Josh I was looking you prepare these these great notes for a show today. I was looking at those. I thought that said Leonardo we were to talk about the ninja turtles.

Disappointed right now to define how that ouster unless the S again the covert brain coming back in the play, blame it on the covert brain Josh and Joe gotta tell your man time has flown by the outlaw your about to go into the garage for the week but a lot of interesting topics. Maybe some closing thoughts as we head on out there is a good week. Again, what interesting topics this week in the new cycle hopefully will see will see something else come up that'll be good feed for our next episode, the outlaw liar episode is in the books Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer your house. You can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience again offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough and Fuquay Marina and if you got questions about real estate closings, estate planning and administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law they can answer it for you the number to call is 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the show will use him in upcoming episode that's you can go online and look at the website and I have some fun there.

The outlaw law in I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate will have more outlier is attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina.

Some of the guests appearing on the show maybe licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show was meant to be general in nature and in the wish of discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like to be rendered. Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live at the opportunity to discuss the fact of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect average Carolinian.

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