Will America Divide Over Abortion?

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Will America divide over the subject of abortion? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Really, things have reached a boiling point in America. Really, the issue of abortion is so preeminent right now, so prevalent, so in front of our eyes in the culture, marches and protests and prayer meetings and things on both sides.

This could easily split our country in two. What are we going to do? What is God doing?

How do we respond? This is Michael Brown, your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. You have come to the right place today.

In fact, it's our line of fire guarantee. You tune into the broadcast. You'll get a healthy dose of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. We'll help clarify things for you. We'll help deepen your conviction so that you on the front lines can make a difference in your family, in the workplace, wherever you are, wherever God's put you. We want to equip you to stand tall and make a difference.

Welcome to the broadcast. Here's a number to call to weigh in. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Let me invite you to call if you hold to what would be called the pro-choice position. If you believe that abortion is a woman's right, if you believe that Roe v. Wade is a correct decision upheld by the the court with the Casey decision in 92, that women do have a constitutional right to abortion, by all means give us a call.

Or if you feel that this will not be decided politically, that this can only be decided spiritually or socially, love to hear from you. 866-34-TRUTH. Let me start here though and say this. I have learned a lot during this radio broadcast these many years. I've learned a lot from you, our listeners who have called in and shared your life stories and life experiences. And I knew from talking to women over the years that abortion remains something very sensitive in their own lives.

Let's say you had an abortion years ago before you knew the Lord. I realized that there were still scars that this could be a fresh issue if someone starts talking about it today. I didn't realize how deep it was.

I didn't realize how intense it was. I didn't understand that until you'd call in, different ones, especially women, but sometimes men as well, you call in and break down sobbing about an abortion from 30 years ago. That the moment we talked about it, wounds were opened up. In fact, a few days I said, hey call in if you have a story to tell.

You can do that today if you have your own story to tell and you want to share it with others. And it amazed me to see how all these decades later, I'm talking about from believers who knew they were forgiven, who knew that they were saved, who knew that the sin of abortion was forgiven in their lives like other sins. And yet the moment they would talk about it, it opened up a floodgate of pain and grief and regret, which underscores to me the violence against women in abortion, let alone against the babies. Some people don't like the term abortion violence, but there's never been an abortion performed that was not violent in some way against the baby in the womb.

Now, many hearts are changing. Many attitudes are changing, especially against late term abortion, because there is much more understanding of the baby's development and viability outside the womb. And the more we learn about the baby inside the womb, the harder it is to just say it's a clump of cells or it's a massive tissue.

Nonetheless, for many women, many women, it feels like a total assault, especially for men. Who gives you the right to tell me what happens with my body, my body, my choice? Of course, the answer would be, well, the baby's body is not your body. It's in your body, depending on your body, but it's not your body.

It's its own body. But many would say, you have no clue what's going on. You have no clue the trauma of having to carry this pregnancy through or someone that was raped in horrific circumstances. There are many, many painful, difficult cases. And women agonize and finally decide to have an abortion. And in their mind, it was the right thing to do.

I am not denying the fact that there are many women who feel it was compassionate thing to do. You have no idea the deformities this baby had. You have no idea the suffering this baby had and would live at most six months and be hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills and drain on the medical system. And the baby would be in pain the whole time and then die for what purpose? It's merciful to terminate the pregnancy early. I understand that many have agonized and come to these conclusions. Nonetheless, once you agree it's a baby in the womb, the same way that you don't terminate that baby at a month, if you know it has months of suffering ahead, you don't terminate the baby in the womb. There is a culture of life and there is a culture of death.

The culture of death ties in with abortion. Again, I don't say that to condemn. I don't say that to open up an old wound. And if you know the Lord, be assured of his forgiveness.

If you don't know Jesus, he's everything you need, not just for forgiveness of sins, but in a host of other ways, he's everything you need. But I want to catch you up on some of what's happening in America today. It really came to a head this past Saturday. So I had my friend Reverend Patrick Mahoney on a couple times in the last few months, had him on last week to talk about this. But this past Saturday, so just two days ago in D.C., October 2nd, there was a prayer meeting for the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

Why this past Saturday? Well, because the Supreme Court goes back into session today. And one of the cases that they're well here, as opposed to the beginning of December, is the Dobbs case from Mississippi, which says you can't have an abortion after detecting heartbeats.

Basically, it's putting it past the Texas heartbeat bill, but after 15 weeks, et cetera, no abortions. That's been struck down by other courts. Well, the Supreme Court agreed to hear it after going nowhere for about a year. Supreme Court suddenly said they're going to hear it. And the question is, well, why would they hear it? If they just want to let it stand, then they don't hear it.

And it's shot down. And their heartbeat bills have been passed all around America, but they've been shot down by federal courts or other courts that had jurisdiction. So the question is, why would the Supreme Court hear it? Does that mean that they're going to reexamine Roe v. Wade? Well, the Mississippi Attorney General said, let's call for that.

I want that to be done. And made an eloquent argument as to how Roe v. Wade is bad law and never, never, never should have been the law of the land through the courts in 73. And abortion activists, abortion rights activists have been saying, yeah, you're going to try to overturn Roe v. Wade. So this is hailed as the case they could overturn Roe v. Wade. And even if all they do is decide to let it stand, the justices decide to let it stand, that would go a long way in chipping away once again at Roe v. Wade. And of course, Roe v. Wade overturned, things go back to the states. And then individual states make individual decisions.

And that's how we can ultimately split over abortion or have abortion free states and abortion states. What would that mean for the larger culture? What would God do in the midst of it?

What message would he send to America through that? And we're in this critical hour. So Pat had called for this prayer meeting thinking they'd get maybe a few hundred to a few thousand max praying in front of the Supreme Court, not a political prayer meeting, not a Republican-Democrat partisan prayer meeting, not a Trump-Biden prayer meeting, a Jesus-centered prayer meeting for life.

That's what was called for. Well, when the court allowed the Texas heartbeat bill to stand by a vote of five to four with all of the justices that Trump appointed joining with Thomas and Alito to say the heartbeat bill could stand, there are protests all over America. And right now, it's just about impossible to get an abortion in Texas. By the time a woman realizes she's pregnant, at that point, basically, it's too late to have the abortion under the law. So it's only in fairly rare circumstances that the woman can have an abortion.

Or of course, if there was a threat to her physical well-being because of the pregnancy, she could have it at any time. In any case, women around the country said we're going to march and protest in cities all over America. We're going to march on what day? October 2nd.

What do you know? And they're going to march in D.C. and where are they going to end their rally? Right at the steps of the Supreme Court where Pat Mahoney and the women and men from the purple sash revolution, going back to women's rights in the 1800s and the purple sash that they would wear, that's exactly where they're going to be praying. Right there in front of the Supreme Court steps, praying and worshiping. Hang on.

Hang on. When are the women going to be arriving there? The very moment that the prayer meeting officially starts, which means that March presumably being a little late, they'll be worshiping and praying there on the steps of the court when the women arrive. Pat posted this on Twitter.

He posted this very vivid picture. He said, how powerful is prayer and worship? Our prayer rally kept 10,000 pro-abortion marchers from coming onto the public sidewalk in front of the Supreme Court.

That's pretty powerful. And he's got pictures of the women marching and then of the prayer group as they're praying and worshiping. And the police were protecting the prayer group. They had the previous permit to be there, so they were fully in their legal rights to be there. There was no violence that took place. Pat said there are some amazing things that happened.

I haven't been able to get hold of him to find out what yet. But it's a picture. To me, it's a picture. It's an illustration of what prayer can do. But friends, because the nation is so deeply divided right now, if we just rely on the law alone and don't continue in fervent prayer for the court to do the right thing, remember, these are just human beings, people like you and me who can be influenced by a host of other factors, and we know what happens. We know hearts are changed, attitudes are changed, minds are changed, decisions are changed based on factors aside from just a strict reading of the law. So we need to be praying for the justices to do the right thing, but we need to be praying for the heart of the nation.

And we need to do our best to continue to reach out to those on the other side of the divide and to make the case for life. Now, check this out. I've never seen this.

I can't remember anything like this. But last week, Wednesday and Thursday, two sitting justices, First Justice Sonia Sotomayor, and then Justice Samuel Alito, spoke out about these very real live cases here. This is what Justice Sotomayor said. Oh, let me grab the quote here.

This is this past Wednesday. She said to an audience of law students, quote, you know, I can't change Texas's law, but you can. And everyone else who may or may not like it can go out there and be lobbying forces in changing laws that you don't like. So there's a sitting justice saying this. Then Justice Alito, the next day, speaking at University of Notre Dame, he said the catchy and sinister term shadow docket has been used to portray the court as having been captured by a dangerous cabal that resorts to sneaky and improper methods to get its ways. This portrayal feels feeds unprecedented efforts to intimidate the court or damage it as an independent institution. He said journalists may think we can dash off an opinion the way they dash off articles. So you have two justices speaking out and both with reference to the Texas heartbeat bill.

I don't remember this ever happening. And a recent poll indicates that a substantial amount of Americans want separation, want secession. We'll talk about that. Take your calls, too. And then a special guest with a special petition will join me at the bottom of the hour. Be right back.

Welcome, friends, to The Line of Fire. Michael Brown, 866-34-TRUTH. I've got some more news items to talk to you about that directly tie in with the subject of abortion. I want to take your calls in a moment. But before we do, Newsweek reported something very interesting. I want to put this up for you. Newsweek reported that the majority of Trump voters want to split the nation into red and blue halves.

All right. Now, when you dig down into the article, it tells us a little over 50% of Trump voters want to divide the nation into red states, blue states, or red halves and blue halves. What's interesting is that Biden voters, a little over 40% of them want to divide the nation. In other words, the ideological rift is getting that deep.

It's getting that intense. And then there are others who say a literal civil war is coming. I have known of Rick Joyner's teaching for decades about a coming civil war. I always understood it in terms of a spiritual and ideological divide, that it would get that deep in America that it would be as if it was a civil war. But spiritually and ideologically, I never took it in terms of a physical battle.

I never took it in terms of a physical battle. Remember, the Civil War cost us about 500,000 men. Think of that number of casualties. What was the population of America then compared to today? I mean, far and away, our costliest war.

Devastating. And of course, it began over cessation of southern states over the subject of slavery. And the horrors of slavery brought the horrors of war on us. And Abraham Lincoln said that every drop of blood, it was as if we were paying for every slave that had been beaten and the blood of theirs that was shed. It's an absolutely dreadful, dividing time in our nation. So, I never heard talk of civil war in my head.

That's at least the way I processed it in terms of anyone talking about physically taking up arms or that we would have to to protect ourselves. But in recent months, going back last year, this year, Rick Jordan has actually said that very thing. So, listen to this quote.

He's on Jim Baker's show. Check this out. We're in a time for war. We need to recognize that. We need to mobilize. We need to get ready.

I'm talking to law enforcement, talking to people. One of the things I saw in a dream I had related to our civil war was that militias would pop up like mushrooms. And it was God. These were good militias. What I also saw in my dream was the Lord had seeded our country with veterans from the Iraq war, Afghanistan, all these wars we've been in recently. Many who know how to fight in urban warfare are going to be a part of the leadership of these militias and help us in what's about to unfold in our own country. And these are going to be patriots. These are going to be those who are going to, they know what the tyranny of Marxism is and they've seen its evidence and the cruelty of some other ideologies and all that is out there. But they are going to be able to help give leadership to these militias that are popping up.

And this was a God thing. He prepared us for this. With all respect to what Rick is saying in terms of the attack on our nation will be that intense. I am absolutely not thinking about militias. I'm absolutely not thinking about taking up arms. I'm absolutely not thinking about how to defend ourselves against the coming physical civil war. I'm not expecting that.

I'm not seeing that. Now, we did have a civil war. We did have that in the 1800s.

We did have that, what, 160 something years ago. It did happen. People would say it could happen again. Rick is much more connected than I am to military people and to others in intelligence.

I mean, 100 times more connected than I am in that regard. I simply don't see that coming. And I simply don't speak about that coming. And my whole emphasis is the spiritual weapons that we have and the moral stands that we can take. Others would say, don't you see it, man? They're coming for our guns. Can't you see it?

With COVID shutdown, don't you see where this is going? We'll let others talk about that. That's not my heart. That's not my emphasis. And obviously, when I've been on Jim Baker's show, it's to talk about the subject of the latest book, next one being revival or we die. In fact, in fact, let me take a moment and ask, have you pre-ordered your special hardcover edition of revival or we die? I have literally not written a book like this in decades. It's written in a style how God moved on me in the late 80s and into the early 90s with a certain fire for revival. And I write with different grace and at different times. So this had a particular spark to it. And I felt moved to write in this way again, revival or we die, a great awakening is our only hope.

That's where my whole emphasis is being put right now. And you can pre-order the book. It comes out paperback or ebooks. You can get that Amazon Christian book wherever you order your books. But we're printing a special hardcover edition. We're numbering, signing the first few hundred copies. That's it. And then we've recorded a video resource as well.

You can download the video resource. When you order the book, we'll be getting these out as soon as we can. The official release date is October 19th. We hope to have the books in and then sent out to you before then. But go to the website, askdrbrown.org.

Pre-order as many copies as you want at this special price for the hardcover edition. I believe it will spark something in your heart. And that's where my whole emphasis is. Now, of course, others, Rick Jordan and others would agree on the importance of revival.

They would just say, there's going to be a military conflict that comes to America and we're going to be ready for it. I'm not seeing that and I'm not expecting that and I'm not preparing for that, just to be candid with you. All right. But I am doing everything in my power by God's grace to point us to God for revival and for awakening and believing with that for the changing of hearts and minds and for a pro-life movement to be raised up so powerfully that we touch many on the other side and that many of those who are pro-abortion radicals would be so mightily touched by God that they would become pro-life advocates that they, like the Bernard Nathansons and others, that they would have an encounter with God and an ideological shift that would be so dramatic that they would help shake the nation. Let's pray for that.

Let's believe for that. 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Deborah in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Deborah, you're on the line of fire.

Hi, thanks so much, Dr. Brown. Yes, I got to see the entire thing on Saturday, and that was so powerful, where they were standing between the huge group that was protesting and the power of Jesus' name in the midst of it, but also this morning, the gathering that was there this morning with Justice Foundation and moral outcry. That was incredible, and the powerful moment I wanted to refer to. I tried to send you a clip, but it looked like Facebook is blocking it. Yeah, all these clips we were trying to get were on Facebook, and Facebook's been shut down. By the way, Alan Johnson from the Justice Foundation is going to join me momentarily to talk about what happened earlier today, but go ahead, you can steal some of the thunder.

Tell us. Yeah, this very poignant moment was when this woman, I don't know her name, but she was up at the podium, and she said, I just have to release this cry, and she rushed over and knelt right before the petition, right before the Supreme Court, and just released a cry. It was so Holy Spirit cry, and I'm sure it was a cry of many things. I mean, it was the Lord's own cry, but also the cry for all of the people like myself who have had abortions. Like you were talking about earlier, that pain never leaves. That cry is in there, and as soon as she started crying, that wail, that cry came out of me too. But I'm right there with you, praying for everyone who's just been blinded, like all of us who had abortions, we were blinded.

All the people protesting against life, they're just blinded, and we've got to have the love of the cross to come and break all the deception, break all the hate, and that love is much stronger. So I look forward to hearing from Alan later. Thanks. Yeah, Deborah, thank you.

And yes, love has to overcome hate and anger. How many years ago did you have that abortion? 40 years, down in Dallas. So when the ruling came down with the Texas heartbeat bill, it was extremely deeply gut-wrenching for me. And my comment about that is, when people talk about women's rights, my baby daughter was robbed of her right to do what she wanted to do with her own body, because she was murdered in my womb.

So my baby daughter was robbed of her right. And Deborah, so that's 40 years ago, you said the pain never goes away, even though you know God's forgiven you. I've only got a minute, but in your view, the women that are shouting their abortion, celebrating their abortion, talking about the importance of women's rights, the ones that were marching, that have had abortions, do you think that many of them have pain that they cover up, or do you think that they're disheartened to it and think, hey, it was a good thing, I'm glad I did it? No, I think they're absolutely in pain. I think the pain is definitely being masked by the anger.

Anger is always a common covering for pain. So no, and I just feel for them, I understand where they're at, and then we respond to their hate with hate, and it just incentivizes those chains. So that's why that power of love has to come and just break it all, yep. Well thank you, thank you Deborah, and may it be so. May the power of love turn hearts dramatically. And friends, it's not that we only pray and don't do other things. We pray and we act. We pray and we get involved in pro-life work. We pray and we vote. We pray and we reach out. But by all means, we pray first and we pray last, and we pray in the middle.

That's the key thing, crying out to God as we join our faith with action, with words. Alright, we will be right back. Don't go anywhere. 866-34-TRUTH is the number to call. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks friends for joining us right here on The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown. So today, earlier today, Alan Johnson of the Justice Foundation, Attorney Alan Johnson, unrolled a petition with hundreds of thousands of signatures in front of the Supreme Court calling for the overturning of Roe v. Wade. It is the moral outcry petition.

It tries to come at things from a different angle that has not been approached thus far. We're trying to get Alan on the phone. Hopefully he'll be with us shortly. We set this up specifically to have him on to talk about this, but this took place earlier today in DC, and it could be just with everything going on that he has been swamped and unable to pull away. Hopefully we will connect momentarily.

We'll see. But all that to say that this is all unprecedented activity, that the things taking place right now have not taken place before since Roe v. Wade in 1973. 866-34-TRUTH, do you have your own abortion story? Do you have a story that ties in with abortion in your own life and how that affected you subsequently?

I just spoke with Deborah from Minnesota. She said that the pain of her abortion 40 years ago never goes away, that she knows she's forgiven, but the baby daughter she would have had has lost her rights to life, and that she believes that every woman that has an abortion still feels it. They may mask it with anger or other things, but they still feel it.

Now maybe you're a believer, and you know so deeply that you've been forgiven that God's taken the pain away, that you wrestled with it, that you agonized over it, but that he's given you assurance that you'll see your child again in the world to come, and that you've turned the pain into prayer or outreach, pro-life outreach, etc. But maybe you say to me, you have no idea what you're talking about, man. You're some 66-year-old male. What do you know about being pregnant? Nothing. Nothing. Physically.

Spiritually. Talking about that, carrying something spiritually, but physically physically being pregnant, I know zero, obviously, because I'm a male. What do you know about having an abortion yourself?

Zero. Obviously, if I can't have a baby, I can't abort a baby, and was never part of a decision to have an abortion, never involved with that in any way. So obviously, nothing I can say to that. Maybe you want to challenge me.

Maybe you want to say you had an abortion and you're glad you did, and it was the right decision. You've never experienced any pain, any regret over it. Then go ahead. Tell me. I will welcome you. I won't ridicule you. I won't mock you. I won't call you cold-hearted. I won't call you a murderer. No, honestly, if you differ with me, I want to hear from you. If you have your own story and your own story confirms what Deborah just said and what other callers have told me over the years, often breaking down on the phone as they share their stories, then we're here for you as well.

866-348-7884. But I want to stress something. It is critically important, and I say this to you as wanting to serve as a voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity in your life. It is so critically important that we keep the emphasis on spiritual first, legal second. Spiritual first, courts, politics second.

What do I mean? I mean that if Roe v. Wade is overturned and if there is a shift in law, things go back to the states. The divisions between the states will only deepen.

The political divide will only deepen. And yes, it would be better that that happens than that Roe v. Wade is somehow the law of the land because that is utterly perverse that it is. It is bad law. It should have been overturned in 92. And listen, if you haven't heard this, we've been talking about it in recent weeks, but the Supreme Court does a preliminary vote.

They hear a case and then between themselves, they do a preliminary vote to see what they're thinking. When there was the opportunity to overturn Roe v. Wade in the Casey case in 1992, Justice Kennedy said he was going to vote to overturn it and that would have made it 5-4. He was lobbied intensely, especially by Harry Blackmun because Blackmun's Roe v. Wade, this is his legacy. I think of having that as a legacy. God have mercy.

So according to all published reports and the behind the scenes information, getting out, all saying the exact same thing, all saying the exact same thing, namely that Justice Kennedy was persuaded to vote the other way and ended up voting to keep Roe v. Wade where it was. So tragically, that's where we are today, but we must fight this spiritually first and then with every other means that we have. I said Alan Johnson, actually Alan Parker, we have been able to connect. So Alan, glad you could make it. I'm sure it's been a whirlwind day.

Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. It's been a whirlwind day here on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court, so thank you for having us on. All right, please just take the floor and tell us about this petition, what's unique about it, why it's so important, what happened today.

Well, thank you very much. We were in front of the Supreme Court and we laid out two scrolls, each with about a quarter million names of people who have signed the moral outcry petition at the moral outcry petition dot com. They've signed their names asking the Supreme Court to reverse Roe v. Wade. And so those names, the ones we've already collected, the total of 539,108, we actually filed those names in a brief at the U.S. Supreme Court in the Dobbs case that asked the court to reverse it. But at the same time, we wanted to lay those scrolls out before America, before the media. And we had a prayer session, actually, to be honest, also, because it is a spiritual and a legal battle. And each one of the petitions, the name gets recorded in heaven and earth. And it's actually a prayer. You know, there's often a legal prayer and a prayer and a legal document. And ours is a prayer that says to the United States Supreme Court, we give five logical reasons under the law of judicial precedent, the whereas causes. But then we do pray to the Supreme Court and the Lord Jesus Christ to reverse Roe v. Wade, Roe v. Bolton, and Planned Parenthood v. Casey. And that's what we were doing here today in front of the U.S. Supreme Court, while the brief sits there being read by the judges.

Right. So there was the the purple sash revolution prayer meeting Saturday, the physical bodies of those praying and worshiping, stopping the pro-abortion marchers from coming into the Supreme Court steps. That, to me, is highly symbolic and points to the power of prayer. Then today, something unprecedented, roughly a half million plus signatures. That's a lot of signatures unfolded in petitions in front of the court. I mean, that sends an incredible message. So two things.

I want to understand the reasoning, the points that you lay out, the whereases. And then also, aside from making a petition to heaven, does this really influence the court? Does the court actually look at these things?

Yes, it does. We got involved in this back in the year 2000, actually, through a series of prayer. The Lord told us to collect the testimonies of women hurt by abortion and go back to the court. And in addition to the 5,339 signatures of those signers, we had 2,249 women hurt by abortion as amicus parties on our brief. And in Gonzalez v. Carhart, which was a 2007 decision, which upheld the ban, the federal ban on partial birth abortion after the Supreme Court had struck down 38 state laws in 2000. Well, in 2007, they upheld the federal ban, and they cited the women's testimonies in their brief. We know what touched just the majority's heart because they wrote it in the brief.

And here's what they said. For the first time since Roe v. Wade, they said, some women come to regret aborting the infant life they once created and sustained. The brief of Kano et al., severe depression and loss of esteem can follow.

Now, Kano was Mary Doe of Dolby Bolton et al. as 180 women hurt by abortion that we represented in that case. And it was the women's testimony, because the court also said, see brief page 22 to 24. And on the pages of those briefs were the testimonies, line after line after line, about two pages of testimonies to the court of what abortion actually does to women in practice, not the beautiful theory of Roe v. Wade, but the reality. And in the moral outcry petition, the third reason for reversing Roe v. Wade is because abortion hurts women.

You're not helping, you're hurting instead. So the court is looking at legal precedent, the court is looking at constitutional reasoning, but the court is also looking at firsthand testimony, anecdotal evidence, and even public opinion, correct? That is correct. In an amazing thing, in the year 2016, a book came out called The Law of Judicial Precedence. That means, when do you follow a Supreme Court decision, or when do you reverse it? And Supreme Court decisions have been reversed over 200 times in American history, so they're not infallible, we know that. Now, in this book, the amazing thing, it was co-authored by Justice Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, and eight other judges, while they were on the Court of Appeals. Now they're on the Supreme Court. And Section 47d of that book says, one of the reasons for reversing a Supreme Court decision is if it has been met with general dissatisfaction, protest, or severe criticism.

So normally, we don't want the court paying attention to public opinion. But under the law of precedent, if a court is wrong, and we call abortion a crime against humanity, that is severe criticism. That was 539,000 people today saying, what you have done is not just wrong, it's egregiously wrong. It's severely wrong. It's a crime against humanity. And under the law of precedent, when people criticize the court decisions that wrong, that's one of the factors they consider in reversing it. And we compare it to two other crimes against humanity committed by the Supreme Court. The Dred Scott decision, saying slavery will be forever and African Americans are so inferior, they're not even entitled to any rights as people.

That's one of the crimes. And the second was... Stay right here. We'll just have you on one minute on the other side of the break to finish this out. Friends, major things are happening in America right now. There's a shift taking place. Let's pray it through. Let's stand together to see change come. We'll be right back.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you, 866-348-7884. If you have your own abortion story to share, I'd love to hear from you. Joined by Alan Parker from the Justice Foundation. So, Alan, you were mentioning two terribly wrongly decided cases in the past in the Supreme Court, one of which would have enshrined slavery forever in America, and looked at African Americans as less than full human beings.

What was the other case? The other was Plessy versus Ferguson in 1896, after we fought a civil war to give African Americans equal rights, and we adopted the 14th Amendment that said you get equal rights. The Supreme Court still said, well, we're just going to give you separate but equal rights.

We're not going to follow the Constitution. We're going to create a subclass of human beings, again, African Americans. And it wasn't until 1954, in Brown v. Board of Education, 58 years after the original decision, it had been the law for 58 years. In 1954, the Supreme Court did the right thing. They did create new rights for African Americans. They reversed their own 58-year-old precedent, Plessy versus Ferguson. They reversed that and followed the Constitution and gave equal rights to African Americans that said we were wrong, separate but equal is no good. So we want them to do the same thing in Roe v. Wade and say we were wrong because we gave to the infant life, which they admitted in Gonzalez is there at the moment of abortion, we gave that infant life less than full protection.

Now, they thought they were helping women. And so the next argument is abortion hurts women. When you open the door for millions of people, and you mentioned that you may be wanting to talk to those women, we now have 4,728 legally admissible written testimonies from women who hurt by abortion. That's what the court quoted in the Gonzalez case in 2007.

And in this Dobbs case, we put 4,728 written testimonies into the brief of our case in the drop box. And so we are proving that abortion hurts women. Now, the third major argument is today, under the law precedent, when circumstances change, the law changes. A major change in circumstances can justify reversal. And what it is today, if Roe v. Wade were reversed, if a state passed abortion today and it was a ban to all abortions, no woman in any state in the country would have to parent a child that she's not ready to parent or doesn't want to.

She either can't or doesn't want to. Every state has what's known as a safe haven law. It's a government safety net as a matter of law saying, within a certain time after birth, you can take your child to a certain place designated by the state.

We will receive it, and you can be free of 18 years of parental obligation. You can have the freedom of Roe v. Wade without killing the child, which we now know is infant life, as the court has admitted, without killing the child and hurting yourself. The court itself has said, first of all, in Casey in 1992, it said abortion can have devastating psychological consequences.

And I quoted from Gonzales where in 2007 they said, severe depression. So if there's a member of your audience who's had it, they can go to our website at the Justice Foundation and fill out a testimony form. And we have resources available for healing. Many women tell us they feel like they're murderers. Many women tell us everything I know about abortion, I know from women who had abortions. They said, they told me I never have to think about it, but it's been decades of suicidal thoughts, inability to bond with my children, substance abuse, suicidal attempts, many, many other things. But there is healing and forgiveness in Jesus Christ, and we have some resources for them to get free Bible-based healing.

Yeah, let me just jump in, Alan. As I said earlier in the broadcast before you came in, that's been educational for me over the years, to hear from so many women who've called in, a caller earlier today had an abortion 40 years ago, knows the Lord, knows she's forgiven, but says the pain never leaves. And she watched, she watched the unfolding of the petitions this morning, and she heard the cry that went up and joined in with it.

So to everyone listening that's been scarred by abortion, go to thejusticefoundation.org, share your story there, and then if you need help in healing, there are resources for you. Alan, the Attorney General in the Dobbs case in Mississippi, has actually said, now we want the court to overturn Roe v. Wade, it's bad law, here's why. What do you think of the arguments that were raised by the Attorney General? I can really say this in all amnesty, and I couldn't always say that about Attorney General's briefs. It was a magnificent brief.

It was a bold brief. It was far-reaching, compassionate, has a woman Attorney General, she knows the pain that women have, even just in this decision. And, you know, we need to move forward to a more just and humane society, but where women can have maintained the freedom if they don't want to take care of that child. Now, the best alternative is to keep the child, and there are thousands of pregnancy centers that will help them, but if they can't or don't want to, legally, there are no unwanted children anymore in America, and Mississippi has a safe haven law, and they put that in their brief. So we're not just saying, oh, you have to have, you can't have an abortion, and you have to raise that child. If you cannot or don't want to parent the child, we will take it from you. And the last argument in the moral outcry petition is, well, the fourth one actually in their spy, but the next one is, what will happen to those children? Will they be in foster care?

No. There are literally one to two million families in America every year waiting to adopt newborn children. They believe that they can take care of a little newborn. They can provide a good home, and after careful bedding, if a baby was dropped off at safe haven, they'd call the next family on the list and say, are you still wanting to adopt a baby?

We have one today. And they could go down and pick up their baby. So it's the love, love, love solution.

Love the baby, love the mother, love the families that are waiting to love children. And this is a totally new change, major change in factual circumstances. The safe haven laws didn't start till 1999.

Seven years after Casey. The court has never considered these things. It's not because new judges got on the court, but these six judges at least have an open mind. And judges should have an open mind. They should be willing to consider changes in the law and do the best with the evidence presented before them.

So I'm very helpful. I'll just say the last thing. The other evidence is new evidence shows life begins at conception. In 73, the court said, at this state, in the development of man's knowledge, we cannot speculate as to when life begins. Well, rather than speculate or find the answer, they allowed the child to be killed. But now they've admitted it's an infant life. And DNA testing, sonograms, genetic testing, and in vitro fertilization. One of our clients is named Hannah S. And she is the first formerly frozen human embryo to file a brief at the Supreme Court. We were all former embryos, but she was frozen for two years. She was conceived in a Petri dish. We have a picture of her in the brief at about three days. She's maybe five or six cells. That's her first baby picture. And then we have a picture of her graduating from college.

She's 22 years old now. So she's able to speak for herself and speak on behalf of all the children. And one of the issues in this case is, when is a child viable outside the womb, albeit with artificial aid? Because the court even in Rose said, once it's viable, we can protect that human life.

Well, she proved you're viable. You can be frozen. You're totally outside your mother's womb. You have artificial aid to stay alive. But then she was placed into her adopted mom's womb.

But she can stand before the court and before America and say, no matter how small I was, I was alive and I was human. And I'm here today. And that's what I was at the embryo stage. Amazing. Well, Alan, I know you've been at this for decades. Your good friend Pat Mahoney out with me a few days ago on the front lines of the pro-life movement for 44 years. And there's tremendous encouragement and hope that this could be the breakthrough we're waiting for.

But it can't just be legal, as we're saying. It's got to be also love-based reaching out to those around us. Alan, keep up the great work. May every one of those names that was enrolled before the Supreme Court today, may every one of those names bring a message to heaven and bring a message to the courts. God bless you. Thank you so much. God bless you. And thank you. Everyone can still sign it.

Our goal is a million by the time we finish. All right. So go to thejusticefoundation.org. Thejusticefoundation.org.

Alan, thank you once again. Whole lot happening, friends. Read my article on the stream, stream.org, about the ideological war over abortion and what we must do to bring about positive change, the actions joined with what these lawyers and organizations are doing and what's coming before the Supreme Court. Let us keep praying. Let us keep walking in love.

Let us lead people to Jesus. Go to stream.org. Check out my latest article there. You'll find it relevant. If you don't get my emails, boy, you don't want to miss them, especially at a time like this. Go to askdrbrown.org. A-S-K-D-R brown.org. Sign up for the email today. You will get a flood of blessing in return. Trust me on that.