Transgenderism 101 w/Preston Sprinkle

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network mobile show where Christianity meets the everyday issues of life, your home, at work, and even in politics.

Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and truth. No sacred cow call Steve now 86 34 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online, Steve Noble Joe.com now here's your house Noble Lord help me question. He thought friends. Gender is him everything that goes along with that. This is a great quote from a great book. Humans differ in how they are male and female, but this doesn't mean sex categories exist in addition to male and female, and you say things like that out the culture and Juergen adeptly get a response. The name of the book is embodied transgender identities the church and what the Bible has to say. I like this short synopsis and accessible guide for Christians who want help navigating the transgender conversation and I think most of us need help with this. We tend to come at this issue as we done with homosexuality, gay marriage, what have you over the years up for me is a 55-year-old Hoover conservative person typically from a culture war kind of perspective you think of transgender is him he might be thinking of the equality act, which is a big deal we can have our buddy Caleb called to back back on the show here pretty soon. Could you just wrote an enormous piece tenant pulling that apart the equality act or bathroom situations. Bathroom bills women sports and men who are transitioning consider themselves and then they go compete against women. Obviously issues there. And this is showing up in more more places so we need help.

And so my son Hayden, who moved out to San Francisco last fall and is attending a great church out there. Reality San Francisco Dave Gomez pastored a moment's attorney on the book embodied and then I got a copy of voraciously. Read through it and it's it's really I'm much more well-rounded today than I was 10 years ago in terms of dealing with some of these hot button issues as such an incredible book written by Dr. Preston. Sprinkle is the president of the Center for faith, sexuality and gender. Prof. Speicher, New York Times best-selling author writes a lot speaks a lot and teaches a lot on this issue and oppressed and great to have you on the show today man, how are you I'm doing well thank you you're very welcome and let me know if you ever actually take over Adam Clayton's job and you too. That's the bass player for those of you today provide no disrespect meant to you, but that might be a sad day for us YouTube fans of all of a sudden Preston sprinkle salt. I won't appreciate that. Anyway, it's great to have you on and I was mentioning my son his goes to Dave Lum's church on San Francisco turned me on to the book embodied and it was a real blessing and very helpful to read and so I just really appreciate you taking the time to do this and and just generally could could you you write a lot about on these issues obviously are running the center for faith, sexuality and gender. Why is this kind of a big part of your ministry. Preston and everything that you're doing dealing with gender and sexuality from a biblical perspective.

Great question. You hear that your great shirt your great work loves you like I fell into it. I like to write on topic.

Christians actually think about you not like vital topic. No people were wrestling with Dr. Billy 50 don't write about, you know current cultural or you know if you do intersect bacon culture and I love bringing to the best of my ability from biblical clarity. You do this, you naturally that let wrestling with questions about the quality of gender and that it's been a roller coaster ride. But if you that the academic side of me. You know, get excited, lots of really cheap difficult questions Russell with but I'm also a pastor heart you know I love walking with people you know people with bad experiences in the church of their about to leave the faith and want nothing to do with Christianity. Actually like that kind of person. It just so happens, though a lot of LGBT people are in that category, but a really great great adventure really in the conversation, I wanted to ask you about this book specifically writing the book and body were talking to Preston sprinkle the author because it was one of the things that I really appreciated about it and I've had some longform interactions with people in the transgender world that it came to interview me.

Actually, in some things I did that were on TV and things like that, as well as a friend of mine Walt higher who D transitioned many years ago but for you. The one thing I kept noticing in the book Preston was always personal interactions and friends that you have and people that you walk with.

But what kinda got you to the point where you're like okay I need to do the research. I need to write this book well. It was shortly after I published my book on quality back about 2015 all the people to be loved. While the crowd is not issued in a look at what the Bible says about while even conversation with lots of people once they finish that book in 2015, I realized that man is a big difference between the LGB and the key factors no overlap with me in my book on homosexuality my book on transgender identity because they LGB raises a certain set of questions about sexual ethic, the conversation around. He raises lots of questions about what it means to be human. What male and female of the body and the brain and on on Agosto. I really felt the need to write a whole book just on the trans-conversation, I thought I'd finished it in your years well with all kinds of different you know really in-depth academic disciplines.

While trying to keep a conversation, listening to trans-people and learning from people just as much of the money for books so to do that one book is Alex thing that I really and I read it cover to cover. That's one thing that I really appreciated about. It's it's it's relational because you have a lot of people in your life that you're talking to and relating to important people in different kind of schools of thought, there's the science there. There is the theology and there and then there's what's going on with the culture you there's really not anything that you didn't touch on as I work my way through the book so as we come up in a breaker pretty good at what you just for the sake of our conversation help us understand okay the definition of transgender non-binary and then gender dysphoria because he show up a lot… It quickly every transgender who identify or write the date with a biological fact that different on their own general non-binary very turned on binary protests against the fact that there are only two util auction Baylor transgender firm that there is a binary ability know you come across one to the other is non-binary options on waste and gender dysphoria specifies lots of people who experience some level between their internal they are talking to Dr. Preston. Sprinkle best-selling author in this case were talking about embodied transgender identities to church and what the Bible has to say will be right back.com where you one of those shows that were having a conversation I will share that about you can share it via Facebook. Why should it be a YouTube live on both our channels. There or you can get the podcast later. Our aviator podcast. You can find Steve Noble show their in and just get it and share it because this is another situation just like homosexuality, where the churches really struggled to come to grasp the concepts grasp the basics outside of just the highly charged culture war, political pull into which most of us dive quite rapidly and I think unfortunately we had our heads on the bottom because were not paying attention theologically or from a gospel perspective and there's a whole lot to it this thing that you see there's the X factor there's things you know there's the transgender story time in the library and stuff like that in this thing that gets you upset and you do see a movement in the culture outside of the church that you that the ramifications are really dark and difficult. These are real situations with real ramifications affecting real people, but often times and I struggle with this myself. I tend to think politically and culturally. Before I think personally and biblically and not theologically, but just been cleaned terms of compassion and outreach, and that's why reading this book embodied transgender identities and the church and what the Bible has to say has been a great blessing by Dr. Preston sprinkle again.

Preston thanks for being with us today. It's been such so important to be able to talk about this. I really appreciate you taking the time. Okay so let's let's dive into a couple of big things here and this is fairly early on in the book, but another 101 tenant thing is is sex versus gender because we have the Bible's perspective and then we have a culture's perspective. So speak to that real quick sex versus gender, and then we'll talk about being made male and female in the image of God and our broader culture. The current gender will more or less ride whether somebody is biologically male and female felt that you could drive what had happened. I'm not good or bad, how the culture of God. People begin to think that contenders back your biological fact and gender being your you know people describe it as your psychological or social aspects of being male or female.

So underneath that current gender there is gender identity which refers to your internal you are or your gender role and how far you can expect that females or we can shorthanded with masculinity or femininity.

Now I know a lot of people's daily wrong you know he can be confusing. I think when these terms are used that way but we can all agree that the and not every biological male matches up to that role kind of dander. The Bible doesn't morally mandate to be utilized.

I have to eat little red bead in place for emotional not think God blesses the diversity of how how males are also you will get anywhere and let you understand these two terms are often used differently fill our draft audience how many genders are there.

Most people driving a car you going to do? Actually, the question what you mean but gender by being an internal sense of self, then I'm probably 7 billion diverse land with rightful individual cells right totally terrible way you simply how I think and that's the title of the book embodied, which is not a word that is common to any of us. I don't think, but this was on the summary page in the book I'm reading from embodied the book by Dr. Preston sprinkle are talking today we are made in God's image is persons who are not completely defined by their sex, but who cannot be defined. Apart from their embodied sex and the reality is you do have a God ordained sex, male or female, but then we get into gender identity and and I know that that rubs a lot of people wrong but this is happening. People are struggling with this. If you look at Facebook. I think they're up to like 70 now different options for gender identity, which means we live in a world of confusion and and I do not expect Preston anybody that's really outside of it of a strong biblical worldview to hold a biblical worldview.

Personally, so it's like getting mad at the sun for coming up in the East every morning or yelling at a lemon tree after dropping limits and I used to do that all the time. Now I realize you know people are broken and they're trying to figure out some sense when they're not many of them not operating with the biblical worldview and so you know that you're going to struggle with that because that to your point gender stereotypes how to that factor into this conversation because I think in the church we done a really bad job about this.

I was talking about my son on the brink on Facebook live whose very talented, very smart, very male, but is an artist, never like sports is very gentle it's very compassionate he's not.

He's much more like his mom that he is his dad in that way in but but I think our gender stereotypes have been really harmful in this regard.

My my on track.

There know you're out going on track of what's interesting is there arts are traditionally being very urban, very old-school, very patriarchal, you know you love the bacon curtain working draft of the lake home and if you're not, you know you emotional kind of you know, walk around little independent person ever in you don't know, but leave it to beaver didn't really help with pain is so-called progressive wing of this conversation is actually resurrecting Eagle because it's very common in the medical community is accounting practices. You know you have a parent that the child who will, but he wants to alert her long and you doesn't like to play sports and you know he run," a quote like a girl in being encouraged shortly given the option. What will write you can't tell me because the boy is not therefore you might stop the boy like you were resurrecting the sure that your again directory depending on them for your very ideology but yet the court the church does thing coming men's and women's retreat can be a hot bath that will be offering the first most biological male will probably actually shot okay you and I will likely fit that stereotype. I but we also need a lot of away not saying people who don't back up. The cards are simply not orally mandated. You brought up an incredible point you references in the book and I've use this statistic on the air.

Many many times. I think I learned from my front wall tire. Who do you transition is that the vast majority of young people that struggle with their gender identity come out of it, coming north of 80% come out of that as they exit puberty and when you're 86 or eight or 10 and in your not fitting that stereotype. We have a whole culture now in parents. In a medical community in a movement that's that saying hey I know what your deal is your probably transgender and then unfortunately many go so far as setting aside politics, but Pres. Biden did say before the election that he thought a young boy or girl it's 8 to 10 could make up their own minds about their gender and it's very dangerous and has very real effects and some of that you mention in your book I which were to get you were talking to Preston sprinkle embodied name of the book transgender identities the church and what the Bible has to say press, put you on hold one more time. This is a great conversation. It's an important conversation.

You need to understand it. The conversation is getting bigger and has deeper implications for the wider impact you need to understand that not just from an electoral site for my gospel site will be right back today about that conversation coming for you. You can run but you can't hide an issue. Transgender is him whether talking about the equality act which is Artie came out of the House of Representatives are talking about the Senate they may dump the filibuster. They do the equality asked to become law and the issue of transgender is him that very definition of sex being expanded underneath constitutional control, like the Supreme Court. It's the same price the same power that we should have in this country. If you say hey I'm not can give this person job because they're black well now you extend that you redefine sex can't discriminate based on sex right can hire you because your male Canary is a female, then it expands it so these. These are very real issues that are going on all around us there. Moving rapidly skews me and so you can run but scan high so you can engage politically. You can engage culturally. Very rarely do I think we engaged theologically and even rarer still. Do we engage from a gospel perspective that actually care about people, regardless of how they choose to live their lives, that doesn't mean it's always a two-way conversation but your heart has to be right. That's why reading this book embodied has been such a blessing to me. I've dealt with this and struggled with this for years as a kind of a recovering culture where Dr. Preston sprinkle I near says best-selling author, helping us understand this. It's an excellent book Preston again, thanks for taking all this time to be with us today correctly really pretty rare at the counter. I got over that a few years ago. The last time I did. I had author Anna didn't read their book, I felt like I had to take a shower and I'm much more effective when when I do this. My son sends me the book just because Hayden sent me the book Preston doesn't mean I'm in it, read it and have Preston on the show so I did read it like I become a town crier when I read something that I want my audience to taste because all I can give them. Today is an appetizer.

You guys have to go get the book for yourselves, which you can do an Amazon and I put a link up on the Facebook live feed like people need to hear this information I need to share and I'm I'm responsible for the knowledge that I have with knowledge comes responsibility and so that then I can I'm on your side were put in our shoulders to the same plow and to can have a better return for their work than one so anyway that that's why do it that way and I appreciate you being there. Let me ask you about science on page 107. Here, every scientist worth her salt knows that science can give us the is, but it can't tell us the ought, that is, science can help us make observations about life, but it can't tell us how to live quote scientific statements of facts and relations as Albert Einstein cannot produce ethical directives sound words from a sound mind, obviously. And so what is science tell us about this because nice Christian sometimes Preston you know that sometimes we write that off when the science doesn't agree with us but in this case I think it's very helpful for us to understand what science has to say only one place where the Bible went by our friend not know the Bible is a long battle argument and all the but when it comes to biological fact is really clear that Fabian PCs are actually dimorphic the third male third email and for a very small percentage of people. They might have a biological condition called intersect where they might have atypical anatomical features and develop human milk you will fight the categories of the Bible affirms that the firm and unfortunately there is not all. Not everything will transfer with what I just said but you can't expect you to rule out that you question that the letter stated the spectra and many different biological factors like flattery feel that's just to borrow a phrase from the left when it comes to climate change and global warming. That's just been a science denier. That's all it is called the red dot and if you read the back of the equality is the most like century old law or I have ever unfriended biblical live in Babylon. I will expect I want to put on scientific theory comically and find so I'm glad you feel if you got super important in I'm not can it be I'm actually expecting. Now in the Senate that they're going to dump the filibuster. That's a political conversation for another dammit talk about it tomorrow, but I think the equality asked probably coming soon to a theater near you. You mentioned intersex. This is something that comes up a lot of transgender people. Some of them. What will mentioned intersex is kind of a unapologetic for transgender is and help us understand that it really, really good thing then brought it intersected the term number of medical condition anywhere from 16 to 20 or 25 different medical conditions whereby born with atypical feature in their biological and I know the term disability or whatever you know you frowned upon. But the Bible medical condition like we can go in and why have a difficult future of the biological fact. The important thing to note though is that in almost every intersect. About 99% of people there still clearly male or female in the biologic effect.

The atypical features people found out like last year that they have not me neither male nor female, is not from third medical condition income. Her friends who have been where they are male and female anatomy and we know how that happened in the you know in the Plato in the womb. What happened in the world that we you know, a combination of both male and female sex categories male sex is still binary, but all of that has to do with medical condition with biological for almost everything was stranded in the third person now are dealing with a more psychological condition of the mind are biological fact that again.

But overwhelming majority is not ambiguous right and again this is this is information that you need to have a hold so that you can have these conversations more intelligently. That's where talking to Dr. Preston. Sprinkle New York Times best selling author embodied is the name of the book transgender identities the church and what the Bible has to say you can. It's available on Amazon. You can get it. Also go to get a couple of websites center for faith.com faith sexuality and gender. A lot of great resources there as well as Preston's own website Preston sprinkle SPR and Kaylee.com I wanted to jump on this one because this is that this is something that's very concerning to me you you. This is in chapter 10 rapid onset gender dysphoria where I use the phrase a lot. Preston's like a social contagion. We see this with we see it with anxiety and depression. We see it was suicide in our seeing it would gender dysphoria. You tell the story of his Helen are Helena was 14 when she realized she was attracted both boys and girls began to explore what this meant for thought through online communities on timber Associates degree can cross hormone therapy. You go on a couple pages later say she was miserable mostly physically, mentally, at some point she remembers I just had to say this is not working is a direct quote. I lost five years of my life to gender ideology five years of believing a lie of centering all of my identity, friendships, actions and thoughts on a lot a falsehood five years of repressing my trauma and sexuality in favor of a lie.

This is one of my biggest concern right now is rapid onset gender dysphoria help everybody understand what that is and let's unpack that rapid technical psychological to Scripture giving you people who are teenagers who really out of nowhere a couple school mom dad on transfers. My new pronoun and pick it would gender clinic and I'm suffering from gender disorder. Even though I have had no prior fine for you growing up very well because the parents are so terrible that they did what hell the parents of the roof and with the square with the psychological criteria for gender just for you is going to destroy the child. It is publicly all you kids were hiding it raised the question I did out there have to increase among teenagers emailed identifying in the United Kingdom a little over 5000% increase teenagers going to gender clinic.

You know you are wrestling with her. Their identity in terms of her gender but thinking and across every Western across most Western wealthy mostly white countries.

The thing another question like this is this is not technically possible gender dysphoria is actually a pretty rare condition because it was awful 5000% increase among among all Western countries does raise the question.

Use the phrase social is there something in the teenagers social environment which includes both their new environment friend group and our online community that is playing some influential role in nudging or encouraging a trans identities and list all the science studies by chance once I've done there is certainly evidence that there are things going on yeah yeah very very troubling for interested we got the last thing is I really present your patients talking to Dr. Preston sprinkle today about transgender is and will be right back in the noble show very very topic today.

Excellent book that you need to get in severalty and some of you even on Facebook. Why right now about affecting your family, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, parents of the name of the book is embodied transgender identities the church and what the Bible has to say. Which, by Dr. Preston sprinkle his Americans, best-selling author and really comes at it from intellectual perspective, scientific perspective, theological perspective, a cultural perspective and a relational perspective which we tend to leave that out. We can bargain in and yell about things. I listen to a sermon multiple times now by Tim Keller several years ago where it's a great reminder. It was very convicting for me and really helped me in my walk is somebody that spends five days a week doing this is been very active in an activist in that world, the culture war politics since 2004 Tim Keller said if you're all truth and no grace or just a bully.

I thought I was at the T-shirt. But if you're all grace and no truth. You're a coward you just capitulate your afraid to stand on what the Bible makes clear, but John chapter 1 verse 14. Jesus was full of both grace and truth.

That's not easy for us and that basically impossible short of the power the Holy Spirit, but yet that's the bar and that's why reading the book embodied will be very helpful to you as you navigate this personally within your family, friends, but in the greater culture by Preston sprinkle such a great blessing to read the book and to have a Preston on today and again.

Preston thanks for all this time and for sitting through commercial breaks right so you know a lot of people you you have relationships with a lot of people that are down this road, up Havens sent me some questions earlier and I thought this one was really important for us to hear. This is from your conversations and interaction like what's it like for these folks to be transgendered. What how does it feel what are the experiences you really learn a lot about this in the book, but I really wanted you to speak to that. Yeah that is a wide range of diverse experience is within the broader Tran umbrella, but the colleges may marker out what they met one transfers one transfers. There simply is no one type that's all you got a friend who pulled out believer in Jesus came to Christ years ago radical conversion preach the gospel more that you find our life worship. The and he believes is a biological female you like long for your she still recollect it identifies of the biological fact but you shall describe yourself as a synonym for the fact that he experiences the day-to-day you know condition friend lived biologically male and when he said he Tran mean that he thinks he is a woman not want to be a woman… A minute but is a woman very very different uses of the term Tran under the whole range of no different kind of you. When you need to conduct a trans or non-binary number one thing good listener and a good question. After what you mean by that, I would love to understand what that curve don't you know what that one transfers only on yeah because I think that one of the dangerous assumptions we can make and I would make this assumption before until I actually spent hours and hours with some of these folks was that there all the hate, this is it, man. I'm totally sold out on my minute. This is why am I love it is exactly the direction I want to going, but there's a lot of trans people that are struggling every day like brutal struggling and I never really gave any thought of that. Yet gender or a remix earlier psychological scripture given to people who have stress over whatever going on between the body of the brain and protect it goes away you mix and you know you wanted 80% of children who would go to after I left for other people come to the way the company does or certain social environment.

The Florida friend there that have wrestled with me in excruciating pain in gender dysphoria can hardly to go outside without having literally like panic attacks is called ocular health like woke up and blew out one now. Maybe that might manifest itself in unhealthy way. The back Thursday or maybe Armando don't do something to alleviate Christians, we need to understand fundamentally. A lot of people are suffering from something that we have the little one like right, we just we just assume they're all in, and their finer happy within them and that's what I want to hire my friend recently turned 80. Preston home while his grandmother started dressing him up in a purple dress. When he was four and so any and he said it when he came out here did an event for us. He said whatever you waters going to grow and so she wanted that and in he didn't get attention home the only place that he really felt love and accepted and adored was only went to grandma's house where she put them in a purple dress and that begins long process. Cross-dressing eventually cost him his career. His family his marriage transitioned and then got saved a radical conversion and then D transition as much as he could because he got to the other side of the rainbow and there was no pot of gold. It did not solve his problem and is just a heartbreaking story but one that really soften my heart to the issue and one that we all need to consider that not every transgender person out there is trying to radically reshape culture. Many of them are really really struggling.

Help us to understand Preston how do we engage this week we got arguments about pronouns and names and by the way, let me just see was sitting on the pronoun thing when I'm talking to you having a one-on-one conversation with you. Not one time in my using your pronoun call you Preston or dude or whatever, but I'm not getting you pronouns when I'm actually in a face-to-face conversation now in the name and you talk about this in the book I made the choice when I had interactions with transgendered people. I went ahead and use their name because I knew I was the only believer in the conversation.

I'm not going to burn the bridge of the gospel over over what summit he wants me to call you really tricky but a lot of thinking through this, whatever it is you're right on the one you need to worry about it. I don't some people are still uncomfortable using the transfer pronoun to Vegas.

You will avoid like social environment.

Yes, I spent 10 pages, roughly with that debate, but you know you you mentioned will hire you the front of the Republic with each transition. There is a whole slew of people coming out now and be transition, you reduce your special care. A lot of outspoken voice record coming out like a horse. Don't liberal was no pot of gold from people you know and we got a replica for a lot of people it just doesn't work.

If I can talk about cultural issues and personal issues. There is a lot there's a lot going on culture today that can and should you know your concerns among Christians that I look like you got anyway. There's a lot to be outraged over but it's not the outrage that leads to repentance. Paul says the road to port the kindness of God.

We have to be stronger Christian worldview be created what we believe that we have to embody the action and loving Jesus.

We were entering a conversation.

I think that effective way for us to get into the lives of people. That's our ultimate goal was that this is deftly question from a narrow this is goes to Dave Loomis's church out in sentences. Going said, how do we hold our convictions about sex and gender while loving and caring for this community that that's exactly. That's it. That's him in a nutshell, he's intellectually rigorous. He's theologically sound, but he has a huge heart not a lot of compassion for people and that's tricky because we tend to lead with truth.

We can lead Grace out of the picture, but I think that's really the challenge I that was obviously the challenge that you been through, but the book really is helpful as you read embodied. It really is helpful that you really can walk and chew gum at the same time, you can hold your convictions but you gotta be careful how you present yourself.

How do you communicate and like you said earlier present. Do you even listen the more powerful thing about that every day you know it could be quite a lot, but my nutshell listener listening to the video doesn't mean you agree with them. Psychologist listen, but being a good genuine listener. Looking at somebody in the face in their eyes that audit really wanted to get to know them sacrifice your conviction could be that in fact he might benefit start there and then through the Lord and then went to some people on Facebook liven sure I'll get emails and messages later people that that this is in their home. It's the son of their daughter. It's a friend, a coworker and neighbor. Whatever the case may be, help us understand like a path forward in terms of resources and getting help.

Yeah, I went with my book on my website.com Bible providing resources, and the LGBT conversation with the Christian we do.

We are coming out with more more resources helping parents with LGBT future recorder your course for current. I would go there around five helpful and then I would also recommend book by Mark your house was a Christian psychologist who deals in this area is a great book called understanding gender for you.

Great overview in terms of the psychological point of view would be great prepared yell. I just link to all of that on the Facebook live feed today so make sure you guys get a copy of embodied transgender identities the church and what the Bible has Preston available on Amazon links up. Also on the Center for faith, sexuality and gender. That's just center for faith.com and then I've got the links up from Preston's website and I'll grab the other one. Understanding gender story that up as well Preston I hope we can do this again. It's been a great blessing.

I really appreciate your time I will do it. Thanks man. Take care yourself super important. We can get outraged right we get educated we take care of our heads as well as taking care of our heart.

This is the mill on the seasonal shelf, God willing.

I talked again real soon and like my dad always ever for another program powered by the Truth Network