Birth of a Faith-based Mutual Fund

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Not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Utah. Most Christians will tell you they don't want to invest in companies that profit from things like tobacco, alcohol, and abortion. And many people take great pains to avoid them. But is that all there is to faith-based investing?

Avoiding sin stocks is an honorable way to align our investments with God's will, but it's only part of the equation. So today, Rob West speaks with Jason Meyer of Eventide to get the rest of the story. Then we take some calls from all across the country. However, today's edition of the program is not live.

We are prerecorded. I'm Steve Moore, the birth of a faith-based mutual fund. That's next right here on MoneyWise Live. Well, Rob, Jason Meyer is co-founder and managing partner of Eventide and underwriter of MoneyWise. And today he has a truly inspiring story for us.

Well, he sure does. We're going to look at this birth of a mutual fund through his story, a really unlikely set of experiences that result in, yes, a faith-based mutual fund. Jason, so delighted to have you back with us on MoneyWise. Yeah. Hey, Rob and Steve. It's great to be here.

Thanks. You know, Jason, in recent programs, we've talked about one approach to faith-based investing. That is those with a conviction to really confront companies involved in disreputable activities through ownership and even through shareholder meetings and shareholder engagement.

And clearly there's a place for that if that's your conviction. But today we want to talk about another approach to faith-based investing and do it through a special way through your story at Eventide. You had this incredible experience that I'd love for you to share with our listeners, and I think it will be a great way for us to learn about this growing area of investing called faith-based investing as we look at it through your story. So tell us how you first came to investing.

Sure. So I came to investing while still in college. I was a graduate student at Harvard University when I ended up meeting this group of people that went on to start Eventide. And I ended up quitting school and streamlining a bit of my personal history here, got involved with them starting this mutual fund company. The joke around the Eventide office is that every good startup needs a Harvard dropout.

And so that's why they let me join. I love it. Steve, you started a business or two with a group you met at Harvard, right? Right. I started a worm farm in the seventh grade. I love it.

Every worm farm needs a Harvard dropout. All right. Tell us about this, though. So how did you end up connecting with this group, Jason? Through church, actually. Shortly after moving in on campus, I learned that my dormitory resident advisor was a Christian. And after the kind of mutual shock of finding one another on campus, he invited me to his church. But he warned me that this wasn't your kind of typical church. This was a small house church gathering in someone's apartment just off campus.

Yeah. So what was that like? Well, I learned it was a unique church. There were a few other students in the mix, but the church was remarkably diverse. So it was multiethnic. There was white, Nigerian, Latino, Asian, Indian, African-American, et cetera.

It's multigenerational, young and old. It was rich and poor. We had local missionaries that were being supported by the local church. In terms of the gathering itself, we would have these marathon church services that would begin late morning, go until evening. It began with the Lord's Supper, but not just the bread and the wine. It was the real deal, full meal experience that culminated in communion.

And we would sing songs together. There was a time for each person to share what God had laid on their hearts. There was a particular verse that meant a lot to us in Corinthians where it says, when you come together, each one has a psalm, a hymn, a word of encouragement, a revelation, and so on. We tried to practice that where there was that kind of broad participation.

Then someone would preach a message from Scripture and then time for prayer and really raw accountability. And afterward, a lingering time of fellowship. It was unlike anything I've ever experienced before. Wow, that's incredible. All right, Jason, so let's take this story toward investing. How in the world was a mutual fund company born out of this house church?

It's crazy, right? So after joining this house church and gathering with them for a while, I learned that a couple of the members were beginning to prayerfully consider starting a business together. And I joined in on those discussions. The goal was really to aim big and to invent a business that would solve some big problem for the church at large.

And many different ideas were kind of thrown around, some more ministry oriented, some more entrepreneurial and practical. But eventually the idea that rose to the top was this mutual fund company. We're talking with Jason Meyer today of Eventide Asset Management.

We'll come back to hear more of this story right after this. It's MoneyWise Live. Good to have you with us today on MoneyWise Live. Your host is Rob West. I'm Steve Moore, also joining us, our special guest, Jason Meyer. And we're finding out a little bit more about Jason than we've heard in the past and finding out the history and the background and how Eventide got its start.

Well, it's an incredible story, Jason. You're a graduate student at Harvard. You start attending this house church with some believers that you meet at Harvard, and you all come up with this idea of really making an impact in the world through investing. In fact, the idea that rises to the surface among these entrepreneurial believers is starting a faith-based mutual fund. Incredible.

Tell us more about what you all had planned. Yeah. So the reason the faith-based mutual fund came up is this. One of the guys had been struggling to find a mutual fund investment for himself that really reflected his Christian values and beliefs. He looked around at typical mutual funds and couldn't bring himself to invest because he knew he'd end up owning tobacco companies or casinos, have pornography revenues or be entangled in abortion, things like that. So he just couldn't bring himself to invest.

And this was a person of just really strong integrity. He searched and found nothing that met his values criteria. So unbelievably, he had actually started this do-it-yourself approach to investing rather than invest in a typical mutual fund that compromises values. So he really was picking stocks for himself.

It's not that the good companies aren't out there. It's that he hadn't found a mutual fund investment vehicle that was really looking with a faith compass. So he basically said to us, do you think there are other people out there in the world who feel similarly convicted about the importance of having their money aligned with their values? Do you think that we could turn this into an investment product that others would want to participate in? And so Eventide was born.

Incredible. I love that it was born out of a strong sense of conviction and conscience. And really, you've mentioned that there were certain kinds of businesses that you sought to avoid because of faith reasons. But talk to us about the companies you were looking to actively invest in to make an impact in the world.

At first, the approach wasn't much more sophisticated than avoiding a list of these problem areas and then doing our best to pick profitable companies from what was left. But soon, God sent someone along to expand our vision of what truly biblical investing should look like. So one Sunday, a visitor comes to the house church. We had already started making plans for Eventide at this point, and he overheard our conversations. He was struck by a particular phrase we used, a quote, Christian mutual fund.

And so he interjected. He said, hang on, I know what the word Christian means. I know what mutual fund means. I don't have any idea what they mean when you put those words together. So we explained that our vision was for a mutual fund that invested according to biblical values.

We understood that that would involve really two steps. Step one, eliminate companies that were involved in various sin categories. Kinds of things that I mentioned.

Then apply conventional financial tools to determine the most attractive investments among the remaining companies. His response? Well, that's a start, but it falls well short of what it would really mean to invest according to biblical values. Ah, what?

Why? We were so shocked. So he says, well, if you want to invest in alignment with God's vision, you really need a more complete theology of business. You need to know what God intends business to do in the world. Really how business participates in God's original plan. And that idea that business practiced well could actually be in alignment with God's heart and vision and really even help restore the world was this kind of revelation for us.

And from that point forward, that idea becomes the bedrock of our investing philosophy. I love it. An incredible story. And in God's providence, Jason, this person just happened to visit the church one day. Is that right? Yeah.

Get this. So this person had never been to a house church before in his life. He just decided to Google house church in Boston, find this on the internet, shows up.

It's crazy. So, you know, he, he, he gets there. He's this experienced business person. The story gets even better who has felt a call on his life from God to instruct the church about God's purposes for business.

There couldn't have been a more perfect person to come our way. And so he begins to teach us about God's great intentions for business. Hmm. Now I'd love for you to unpack this a bit more because this is such a big idea for us as believers to think about how God created us and how we're supposed to be used by him to impact the world. This is obviously the approach you took that shaped everything you did moving forward. So expound on that a little bit for us.

Yeah. Oh man, there's so much I could say to this question, but suffice it to say that we had our eyes open now to the power of business to create value and really even blessing for the world. Before we only had part of the picture, we had this negative side, avoiding companies we felt dishonored God, but then we began to develop the other part of the picture, the positive side, seeking out and embracing companies we felt were genuinely well aligned with God's heart and his design for business. You know, I like this verse in Romans chapter 12 that says, let love be without hypocrisy, abhor what is evil, cling to what is good. What does it mean for our love to be without hypocrisy or stated positively to have integrity?

Two things are required. Abhor what is evil, cling to what is good. We only had half of it, abhorring what is evil. What we learned is the other half of integrity, seeking out, embracing, seeking out, embracing, really clinging to what is good in the world. And so we began to devote really as much time to seeking out and embracing companies that we felt were creating this blessing as we did to avoid in the companies that we had deep reservations about. So this really radically altered our perspective. When we first got started, our tagline was it was invest without compromise.

You hear that negative side. Today, it's investing that makes the world rejoice. So the same careful avoidance is still there, but our larger vision is to press on and find companies that are creating significant blessings for the world. And now I think the result is much closer to our original vision, something truly worthy for the Church, for the sons and daughters of God.

Well, Jason, it's an incredible story. I'd love as we begin to wrap up today for you to take just a moment and explain practically what this looks like, investing to make the world rejoice. Give us some broad examples of what that might include.

Sure. It really begins with the positives, trying to identify these big picture investment themes that you really feel are kind of supporting culture and civilization that bring glory and honor to God. And there are some that are very high impact kinds of things, things like biotechnology, for example, with hopefully the eradication of disease, down to things that we may not typically think of as high impact, but are nevertheless value creating. So things like shipping logistics or the evolution that companies are involved in as they transition from on-premise technology to cloud-based computing, the next stage of transportation, so vehicle electrification, advanced driver assistance systems, things like this.

There's a whole host of themes that we categorize under kind of three big headings, develop, sustain, and restore. We're looking for businesses that are developing the world, sustaining the world, and even restoring the world. Well, thank you for sharing your story today. It's an exciting picture of where this space is headed that we call faith-based investing. And you can learn more about investing that restores and brings blessings to the world at investeventide.com, investeventide.com.

More MoneyWise Live after this. Hey, a real pleasure to have you with us today. This is MoneyWise Live. I'm Steve Moore, that other guy over there, the guy with the answers. He's Rob West, and we're happy to have you with us on the program today.

However, we are prerecorded. We won't be taking your calls, but we've lined up some calls in advance that I think you'll find will help you and bless you and make you a wise steward of what God's given you. Should we jump right in, Rob? I think we should, Steve.

Absolutely. All right, let's go north a bit. Pikeville, Kentucky. Hello, Gary.

How can we help? Hello. I'm doing okay. You doing okay this evening? Yes, sir.

Thank you. Let me, yeah, I want to explain to you, you know, what I want to talk to you about. When we worked, we went to a CPA. This started in 2008, and he advised us to go to a financial advisor, and anyway, we bought REITs. It's called an unlisted REITs and BDCs. Anyway, the bottom has dropped out of it, and here lately, well, a couple years ago, we tried to get out of it, and you have to fill a form out, and they'll give you like 5% of it, and, you know, it's dropping by you, and the other one was, it's called a North Star Health Care Income. It's a REIT also, and anyway, we weren't fully aware of this. You know, we were told it would, you know, it would turn over someone and buy it back, you know, and, you know, it'd make a profit. Well, it didn't, and anyway, on this one, unless you are totally disability or you die is the only way you can get your money back, but my question is, there's this attorney, you know, that he would, you know, would have a lawsuit with this financial advisor, and I didn't know how to feel about that, whether I wanted to do that or not, but anyway, it's tied up. I can't get it.

I can't get it out. I'm sorry, yeah, go ahead with your question. We'll be about the financial advisor. Should I do that or just let it go? Yeah, yeah. Well, Gary, first of all, I'm sorry to hear about the situation you're in.

I know this is never something any of us want to go through. These can be tough lessons to learn, and, you know, whether or not something was done inappropriately or fraudulently obviously is in the details of how this was described to you and whether the law was followed with regard to how you took this out. I will say that unlisted REIT, so this is REIT, which stands for Real Estate Investment Trust. It's an opportunity to invest in real estate to earn both appreciation and income over time and some favorable tax treatment, come in a couple of different forms. One is called what's called a listed REIT, which is listed on one of the major indexes and trades like a stock, very liquid and accessible. And then there are unlisted or what are called non-traded REITs. These are not listed on the public exchanges and provide you access to, again, real estate investments with tax benefits, but relatively inaccessible. And because of the nature of them being unlisted and very illiquid, they are certainly considered a higher risk investment, not suitable for all investors. And that's why they're in most cases limited to what's called an accredited investor, meaning you have to demonstrate some sort of sophistication in your investing, most often determined by your net worth and your experience in investing.

You in this case used an investment professional, and I assume that you met the definition of an accredited investor and you were presented with the proper documentation to describe both what the investment was, the fees associated with it, which tend to be a little bit more hefty on the front end can go up to as much as 15% or more. And then the redemption options in terms of your ability to get the money out. Now, often when we go into something like this, we go into it with the best of expectations. And so perhaps you were not looking as closely at the opportunity to get out thinking, well, I probably won't need that. And you could just leave the money there and let it do what it was intended to do. Unfortunately, when things don't perform as expected, which can happen with any investment, and then we begin to ask some questions around, okay, how do I get my money back? It's only then that we become very understanding of the limitations around that, which perhaps were disclosed on the front end, but it was with a lot of other information that maybe you weren't paying close attention to. So I would just simply say, Gary, definitely a difficult situation.

I understand your frustration. If, though, everything was done properly, everything was disclosed, you got the proper prospectus and documentation, you were an accredited investor, everything was handled properly for this, what's called a private placement, which is a private investment, then I would say, you know, the risk is something you assumed when you went into this investment, despite the fact that it didn't turn out as you expected. If, though, something was not done properly, either there wasn't proper disclosures, or you should have never been in this investment in the first place, by the SEC's definition, well, then that's a completely different story. So, you know, at the end of the day, in most cases, I would say this is just a lesson we need to learn and we need to learn and we need to say, you know what, I'll probably not do something like this again without understanding fully the risks associated with it. And you move on to the next investment. And I think in, in most cases, that's where you come down because most of these investment professionals are trying to do the very best thing for you. And let's certainly hope that was the case here. And this is just a situation where the investment didn't perform as expected.

But tell me, though, any questions or thoughts you have based on what I just shared? Well, you know, I just wasn't really aware of it. You know, you know, the financial advisor said, then he had these and then, you know, just somebody buy it out and it'll turn over, you know, make money on it. But, you know, after retirement, when they say that you cannot get it out unless you die, it's just like a life insurance policy. I mean, they and they weren't aware of that, that they could do that.

But, you know, I guess they made the rules up as they go. Yeah, well, all of that should have been disclosed if this was a private placement in something called a PPM, a private placement memorandum, which gives all the specifics. And often what you're looking for with these is not necessarily a return of your initial investment, but the dividends or the distributions that are taken along the way, which have to be paid out over, you know, at various intervals.

So I'd go back and look at the information that was originally provided to you and have a conversation with the investment professional. And out of that, then decide what your next step should be. At the end of the day, I realize it's a tough lesson to learn. And hopefully there are other assets here that you can rely on moving forward. And we appreciate your call.

Yeah. Gary, sorry about this situation. We wish you the best with that.

Thanks. More MoneyWise Live right after this. Romans 11, 34 and 35 reminds us for who has known the mind of the Lord or become his counselor or who has first given to him that it might be paid back to him again. This is MoneyWise Live, where we come to you each weekday, trying to help you find God's plan for your life and your finances. And we were just chatting with a caller, Rob, who had concerns about, well, the person who invested the money for him, his money for him. And what do you do if you have complaints against someone who's investing your money, a financial planner, someone like that? Yeah, I think the first thing is just to recognize anytime we have a loss of principle, our normal reaction is to say, wait a minute, somebody must have done something wrong. And I think the first thing we need to do is check our motivations and realize that when we're investing, we should have had a good plan and for the proper time horizon.

And we understand with investing comes risk, the market goes up and down. So I think oftentimes we need to start by taking a deep breath and saying, was there actually something done improperly or fraudulently here? But if obviously you have a situation where you felt like you were misled, somebody has done something that is not appropriate, well, the government is very interested in helping you with a situation like that. FINRA is the financial regulatory authority in the United States, along with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and they both provide ways for you to file a complaint. And so if you have something legitimate that you feel like you would like to engage further about, you can go to the Investor Complaint Center for FINRA, F-I-N-R-A, and it's very easy to get more information.

But again, I would just say don't be quick to do that unless there was really something done incorrectly. All right, great information. Thanks, Rob. Elizabeth calling us from New Hampshire with some issues she's dealing with. Very good, Elizabeth. Thank you for your call today. You're on MoneyWise Live. Hi, thank you for talking with me.

Yes, ma'am. So I'm calling because January 13th, I was sick. I had multiple bouts of strep throat. And as I was laying there sick, I thought, I don't understand bonds at all. I don't understand the way they fluctuate. And I don't understand all this investing I've been doing over the past 20 years. And I pulled every dime I had out of the stock market and bonds and put everything in money market with the idea that I would try to understand it better. And I sort of reached the conclusion that maybe what I want to do is stocks and money markets and not do bonds at all. And I just so I do want to reenter the market. But I and I use dollar cost averaging to get into the market with my paycheck over the past couple of decades.

And so I just was curious, what's the best way to reenter when you've done a massive exit like that? Yeah. Well, Elizabeth, a couple of thoughts. Number one is I certainly understand that the stock and bond market can be somewhat confusing, especially if this has not been your area of expertise. You've been focused on other things, your work and whatever else the Lord has had for you, and perhaps not really engaging in understanding the financial markets.

And that's nothing to be ashamed of. But certainly as a steward of God's money, we want to be well informed. I think that's why we see so much in God's word about seeking wise counsel and just the benefit and importance of having godly professionals in this case that are walking alongside you to help you manage God's money. And that would certainly include investing. And I think based on what I'm hearing from you today, given the uncertainty you had, perhaps some of the confusion you've had, and even some of the moves you made, it's never a good idea to kind of wholly cash out of the market, we need a long term, well disciplined strategy, we can create not only all kinds of tax implications by just selling out of the market on a given day, but, you know, oftentimes, when we're trying to get out or get into the market, you know, by timing the market that just, in about every case doesn't work well, you know, we can really hurt ourselves in the long run. And that's why what you have been doing, which you just mentioned for the last couple of decades is really the right approach. And it's a disciplined, systematic approach to investing. Now, the good news is, as you move back into the market in more of a systematic fashion, and that's the way I would do it. Now, who knows what could happen tomorrow, the market could be up 1000 points or more, could be down as well, we don't know.

And that's why we want to move in in a systematic fashion. But I would, though, recommend Elizabeth that you seek some wise counsel here, somebody who can really perhaps come alongside you explain how the investment markets work, begin to understand you and your story, what are your goals and objectives? Is this money that you need income from now?

And if not, when? How does this play into your overall plans in terms of your financial finish line? What is your goal for your savings? What giving do you want to do now?

What about the tax implications? These are the things that an investment professional, especially one who shares your values could help you explore. So let me direct you to our website, MoneyWiseLive.org. Click on Find a CKA, and that stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor there in New Hampshire, and I'd interview three and find the one that's the best fit for you and then work alongside that person to move back into the market, but with a strategy that you understand and that makes sense for your goals and objectives. Elizabeth, thank you very much for your phone call today. We wish you the best in that regard. Hollywood, Florida, Shante.

What's on your mind? I was calling because I'm trying to find out, with purchasing a home right now, there's a five percent closing cost that they didn't agree on in the beginning, but the seller is stating that they're not putting anything towards the closing cost. So my concern is, will it be worth me putting the down payment plus doing the full closing cost versus me possibly looking for other options in another property, which roughly the total will be about $32,000. Is there another way where I could possibly get assistance with help with paying the closing cost or something that I can do to work with the seller to have them assist in paying that?

Yeah, that's a great question, Shante. I realize there in South Florida, the real estate market is very high, and so in a seller's market, which we have been in and really I would say we still are in, a seller has little incentive to help the buyer with the closing cost. When the situation is reversed, the buyer has more leverage to negotiate with the seller to pick up some of those closing costs, which can run from two to five percent.

Now what you're talking about really is on the upper end, so I would take a hard look at those and just make sure everything is in order and there's not an inordinate amount, for instance, in the mortgage closing that you're paying points or things like that that could be perhaps eliminated if you were to shop around. The best way to negotiate for the seller to pick up some of those costs is really to look for comparable sales in the area where sellers have paid the closing fees. If you can show that that's been done in your area, it could make a difference. In some cases, people will agree to a higher selling price that includes the closing cost, so in effect what you would be doing there, Shante, is just financing the closing costs, but I really don't like that approach. I'd try to avoid that. I think I'd go back first and just make sure you have the right down payment.

Do you have that 20 percent? We're going to recommend that for everyone, and then make sure you're not paying too high a closing cost. Take a hard look at those expenses, and then finally work with the seller.

Hopefully there's some incentive there and see if they can help you with part of it, and then I'd proceed at that point. Thanks very much for your call. Hey, you're listening to MoneyWise Live with Rob West. Today's broadcast is pre-recorded, so we won't be taking any calls, but we have some calls lined up and some great information coming your way that I think you'll find usable at the very, very least.

And you can find lots more great information about these topics when you visit our website, moneywiselive.org. Right now, we're going to break for just a moment. Don't go anywhere. Stick around. This is MoneyWise Live. You're listening to MoneyWise Live, and this program is produced by MoneyWise Media, a 501c3 ministry in partnership with Moody Radio. And if you'd like to help us stay on the air, we certainly would appreciate that. Your gifts are more than welcome at any level, $20, $200, whatever God is compelling your heart to do.

And you can do that easily, quickly, and safely when you visit our website, which is moneywiselive.org. Rosemount, Minnesota. Hello, Brenda. Thanks for holding. Hello.

Nice to talk to you. Thank you. Recently retired my husband and I, and we would love to now travel and possibly become part-time snowbirds. We paid off farm mortgage. We do have one outstanding loan for $20,000. So we want to purchase a travel trailer and a truck.

And my husband was in favor of doing the reverse mortgage process. And I'd just like to know what your opinions are on that as being a viable option. Yeah. Is it a viable option?

Yes. Is it my first choice? No, Brenda, it wouldn't be. You know, I'd love the fact that you're out of debt, you're completely debt-free, which gives you ultimate flexibility. Now, I realize that if money is tight and you're trying to fund your lifestyle, despite the fact that you've gotten your income or your expenses to the lowest level possible, that the idea of beginning to tap into that equity that's in the home can be attractive. And that's really why a reverse mortgage was created. For a homeowner who's 62 or older, and you have that considerable equity, you essentially borrow against the value of your home and either receive that as a lump sum or a fixed monthly payment or line of credit. And as you begin to tap into that, you don't have to, of course, make any loan payments.

The entire balance would be due when you die or move away permanently or sell the home. It's highly regulated, although there are a good many scams associated with them, so you need to be really careful and understand what they are and work with a reputable lender. One of the reasons I don't like them, other than we're financing our lifestyle with debt, Brenda, is that the fees tend to be high, so the imputed interest rate in them is high, even though you essentially don't see it until you ultimately have to pay it or your heirs do. And there's a number of fees embedded in there as well.

And so it's just a very costly way to access your funds. So what else could you do? Well, you could sell a property and downsize and perhaps, you know, take some of that principal, put it to work for you, live off of it. If you ultimately have heirs that want to occupy or own this property, perhaps they could come in and buy it from you. And then you could, in a sense, you know, rent it back, something like that.

You know, there's a number of options there. But I think at the end of the day, if this really is the only way and you feel like you are going to stay in this property, you have a high degree of confidence that you can cover the taxes, the property taxes and insurance, which is the primary way that these reverse mortgage products are foreclosed on or properties are foreclosed on as the borrower's inability to pay those property taxes and insurance. But assuming you can do that, have a high degree of confidence and there's no other way and you really want to stay in this property, then this certainly is a viable way to begin to tap into that equity to fund lifestyle. Just recognize the implications and really do your homework and make sure you're working with a reputable lender just because of some of the challenges inherent in some of the bad actors in this space. Does that make sense though to you?

It does. And it really causes me to pause and say, I think, perhaps just getting a loan makes more sense. How do you feel about that if we just go ahead and borrow the and borrow the money to be able to do this and we would be able to pay it back because our previous mortgage money is freed up? Sure.

Let's talk about that. What would you be borrowing for? To buy something or to fund your lifestyle? Yes. No, to buy.

We'd like to buy a truck and the travel trailer to go across country. Yeah. Great. And do you know what you would need to spend for those two, roughly?

Yeah, probably about $80,000. Okay. All right. And what is the value of your home?

About $320 market value. Okay. Great.

All right. Yeah. As long as you do the budget, Brenda, and you feel like you've got the ability to fund that, do you have some assets there in the background? You know, retirement assets, things like that? Or is it really, you know, just the fixed income that you have that you are counting on moving forward? Just our fixed income.

Okay. Yeah. My husband does work part-time, four hours a day. That's a bit of extra income, you know, but no, it's basically just our income from social security and pension plans. Yes. And you do have now that the mortgage is paid off, what would you say your surplus is on a monthly basis?

I would say about 1200 a month. Okay. All right. So obviously an $80,000 mortgage to be able to purchase these, you know, wouldn't be anywhere close to that. And what are your ages, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm 66 and my husband is 70. Okay. All right.

Yeah. You know, I would probably like to see you go that direction before the reverse mortgage, especially because these would be assets that you could really focus on paying off as quickly as possible. You know, I don't love the fact that you don't have an emergency fund to fall back on, so I might delay this a bit just to try to take that 1200 a month and build up a bit of cash reserve. But beyond that, I would prefer you to go that approach and then ultimately pay this off and be debt-free again, as opposed to the reverse mortgage.

Do your homework, think it through and probably seek some wise counsel there in your area there and in your state because, you know, I don't obviously have all of the details of your financial situation, so I think it would be well worth you to spend a couple of hours with a certified kingdom advisor, just to make sure you've looked at all sides of this. But I think just based on the limited information I have, that'd be the direction I'd head. And Rob, I'm pretty sure we have a certified kingdom advisors in the Rosemount area, which I think is just outside of Minneapolis and that in that region of the country. Correct. That's exactly right.

A good many of them. And you can click on find a CKA when you go to MoneyWiseLive.org. And Brenda, if you guys are ever sailing through Georgia as you travel around the country in the winter months, you let us know. You can probably park that trailer in Rob's front yard, but we'll take care of that when the time arises. God bless you. All right, well, let's go back to our phones.

Indianapolis, Indiana, obviously. Mary, thank you so much for holding today. What's your question for Rob?

Oh yeah. Thanks for checking my call. I was calling because my parents are in their eighties and they have been watching everything that's been happening with the stimulus checks and history. And they have been putting a lot of pressure on my husband and I to, um, to have physical silver and gold. They think that the dollar's going to collapse. They're convinced of that and just wondered what your thoughts are on having gold and silver, like physically.

Yeah. You know, Mary, I'm not a big fan of that approach. I mean, obviously, you can play out any number of scenarios, you know, where the dollar if it collapsed, kind of taking their situation here and playing it out. That, you know, it'd be very difficult to, even if you had gold and silver to operate, because it's very difficult to convert it to a means by which a means of exchange.

If you have the physical gold, then obviously, you know, how do you parse that up? And at that point, you know, what does that look like on a day to day basis? You know, I think in terms of the bigger picture, you know, even though yes, we're taking on massive amounts of debt as a nation, and you know, we need to deal with that at some point, we're not at that point, we can still handle the debt that we have. Interest rates are very low. We still have one of the largest economies in the world. And you know, the dollar for all intents and purposes is very strong, and I don't see it losing its reserve status anytime soon. I'm also confident to marry that, if we were to get into a situation where the debt became burdensome, that the policymakers with their backs against the wall would make the hard choices to do what they needed to do to right the ship, if you will.

And so I think just going back to biblical principles, managing what passes through your hands, according to God's wisdom from the Bible is just about the best thing we can do, because the rest of it's out of our control anyway. So living within your means, having reserves, being properly diversified. And if you want to take a position in the precious metals, I think, you know, just maintaining a typical 5% allocation as a hedge against inflation or a declining dollar is a good thing.

But getting overweighted in gold, because of the volatility, you know, not to mention the illiquidity and some of the premiums as you're buying and selling through dealers, and the physical storage and the safety of all of that. I just don't think that's, you know, wise based on everything I know today. And so I would respectfully kind of push back on that and say, I hear what you're saying, I understand the concerns, but I don't feel like that's the best, most prudent thing for us to do at this point with God's money that we've been tasked with. And then, you know, I would just continue heeding biblical principles as you manage what you have moving forward.

But obviously, Rob, with elderly parents, those of us who have been in that situation, sometimes it can be tough getting your parents to listen to you, their children, even though you mean well. So in a situation like this, if they're just bound and determined to get some physical gold, where would you suggest they they put it? I mean, $1,000 worth or maybe more under the bed in a hole in the backyard? How do you deal with that? Yeah, I mean, if you are taking obviously possession of precious metals, gold, silver, whatever it might be, you need to have a safe and you need to be thinking about securing it in a way that is responsible. So I think that would be your next step.

But, you know, that's not the way to go, I don't think for most people. MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. Thanks so much for listening and for joining us today. Tell a friend about the program. We'd appreciate that. And visit us online at moneywiselive.org. Thanks for listening.