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He Went from He to She and Back to He

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
October 26, 2020 4:30 pm

He Went from He to She and Back to He

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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October 26, 2020 4:30 pm

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He was a married man with he decided he had to be a woman.

16 surgery to his lasting regret. He tells a story today stalking for the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of the fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown friends last week when it after much much anticipation important movie in his image was made available to the public. You can watch it at in his you can watch it for free.

Someone tweeted me back the other day after watching said, I believe it's the most important film out today tells the true story about what it means to be created in the image of God, male and female he created us that it deals with compassion, with questions about sexual orientation and gender confusion and one of the testimonies featured prominently in this documentary is that of wall tire.

He was 42 years old. He was married father corporate executive decided he could not take the conflict he was living with anymore had what is called gender reassignment surgery with this woman for eight years and then realize that the deepest issues in his life is not had not been dealt with yet a life-changing encounter with the Lord in his recovery. His male identity for the last 30 years and been married for 20+ years and just yesterday turned 80 years old and yet is active is is rather than slowing down is giving himself to help those with gender confusion will type out some of his books and resources so jointly today on the line of fire wall tire wall.

Thanks so much for coming back on the air with us and thank you Dr. Brown. It's a pleasure to be on talk about this absolutely fantastic movie that everyone that listens to the show today needs to watch. Alright, so, so it won't your your 80 years old.

Robbie's just chatting with you much. You seem to be in vibrant health, full of energy, but wanted to slow down one at this, step away from the controversies and and you just can't have a nice retirement. Why are you still in the thick of the most controversial difficult, thankless subjects of of the day because it's the most controversial and thankless thing there is going on today and I want to be in the middle of it whom why what motivates well because I went through it and I see too much harm being done, you know, we have a website called sex change and I said is the moment I stop getting people asking for help because they were wrongly diagnosed or they made a mistake and went through the surgery.

The second those emails asking for help stop. Then I will stop. Got it all right so before we get into your own story and again is told powerfully folks on the video in his image before we do that just asked this question, how many people do you hear how how often are people reaching out you or through other means reaching out and saying I'm struggling or have a family member that struggling yeah it it happens every single day. It's either a family member or grandfather, a wife or anybody that's going through. This is contacting me at either. Most of them have gone through it between three weeks and 30 years later that I mean the duration of time that this covers is like 30 years through nursing going through this you same people that actually try to change gender saying I'm trapped in the wrong body and tried to change their body to adjust with what they were feeling up on the inside.

What what kind of stories to hear what what what are people thinking when they realize I said the young woman had a vasectomy and then comes a few years later, the wonder what in the world that I do what will come of stories to hear. This is one of the best questions that people need to hear the answer to, and we work with literally hundreds even thousands of people and the one major thread that runs through this is abuse of some kind, either emotional abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse or sexual abuse has occurred to these individuals. Sometime during their life either younger or middle-aged teens. Something happened to them that caused them to not like who they are and they don't want to be who they are and so by virtue of trying to identify as a transgender person take on a different idea identity in a way to not feel the pain of what happened to them. Arts also walk in your own life is you've told your story of the thousands of times by now and in numerous documentaries and again the brand-new one in his image. Go to in his friends a reminder for your pastor or leader would like to to host a viewing of this so you can bring people together in your community and then American family Association will send you lots of supplemental material good to use with it. All that info is on the website in his soul walking in your own life. What were the major things that you can point back to that produce this this gender identity confusion in your own life. Well the first thing that happened was Rachel's four years old. My grandmother when she was babysitting me, who is a seamstress made me a purple chiffon evening dress and put me in the stress and told me how cute I was, how wonderful I looked and a course at four years old. You have no idea what the consequences are going to be, or that you're going to be on the Michael Brown show 76 years later saying you know, this caused me a lifetime of confusion and stress because when you take a young boy at the age of four. Putting an address and affirm him as a little girl what you're really saying this is key which are really saying to that boy, is that there's something wrong with you as a boy and you'd better off as a girl. So all of a sudden your ear. Shaming him about who is in town you need to be somebody else. I to me and looking back at this that's child abuse and it really needs to stop wouldn't be so wonderful if grandma would've said how cute I was as a boy, how wonderful I was a boy and and built that image up, but she didn't. She began to destroy it and tear down and and she was just being a grandmother and for whatever reason.

Her background seamstress.

She didn't have malicious intent right. She just didn't have understanding it right.

She had again consequences.

It's one of the big words that gets left out of this conversation is that she had no idea what the consequences. But I didn't know what the consequences would be, but they've lasted a lifetime art. So four years old.

Your grandmother puts into an address which is babysitting and complements how you look at obviously like being affirmed in so that that that gets in their but then there's something very traumatic that takes place after that. What what happens next.

Yeah well tooth. There are two events one my dad was just totally devastated when he found out his little boy was being dressed up by grandma because he didn't know for 2 1/2 years. This was going on, so he felt really betrayed and I could never go back to grandma's house without him being there, so he used a hardwood floor plank on me as a disciplinary tool, but I think it is mind what he was really trying to do was like a blacksmith pounding on hot iron. He was really trying to reshape me into a strong young man but what really was happening was it was even causing probably more devastation inside me being hit with that hardwood floor plank.

But here's the key. The key is that purple dress became kind of known within the family and my uncle Fred at the time was a teenager and because of that purple dress he felt when I by the time I'm eight or nine years old that I was fair game to be sexually molested and so he began this process. For a time of sexually molesting me know what what what ends up happening in your own life and then struggling with transgender identity issues is one thing, others respond to sexual abuse differently but can you just try to explain. For all of us who can't relate to being abuse.

Personally what what kind of trauma is that for a child in this in this case is homosexual abuse.

You are subject to two but what what kind of trauma. How does it mess up that child's equilibrium understanding of sexuality relating to others, and what's with the impact of yet the impact I think it is really crucial and and I hear this from people that I've worked with and what we tried to do in this is so important for us to grasp is that I wanted to rid myself of my genitalia not because I wanted to be a female.

So much as I did not want to be sexually molested again.

So if you can. If you can look at this from a standpoint of that idea of being taken off my genitalia was a way to protect myself from being sexually molested so I felt and many other people that I've worked with felt that was a defense mechanism against being sexually harmed. It would that be similar to say a girl who was molested by a heterosexual.

So she's molested abuse by a male and then as she gets out she grows up she is repulsed by the idea of sexual romantic relationships with a male and instead gravitates towards relations with a female could could that also be part of that self protection mechanism. It's absolutely connected to that, exactly. Yeah, right. So friends again in his is where you go to watch the movie. It's free to go to wall hires website, especially if you're struggling. If you have questions for yourself or family members sex change and those question posted about intersex people come to that in a moment, but Walt, let's fast-forward now you get married you start a family. Were you acting things out otherwise are struggling on the inside wall living as a married man and father yes sure that that that purple dress began to play out in my head every day I mean that that image that affirmation really messes with who you are and you begin to think there was something wrong with me. I think that's a critical point. There must've been something wrong with me as a boy, so he began to question everything you do and so it just continued throughout my going to high school, I mean I had girlfriends.

I dated girls. One of my first girlfriends Lola Joy Phipps. What a great name. I mean, that is.

I mean, I still remember that name today.

She was great, but I had. I told her about what I was struggling with, and it's the first person that I kinda shared it with and so she broke off the relationship.

So what I what I realized was that I had to keep this a secret. It wasn't something that you could talk about this was in the 1950s.

So, you realize that your cot between this purple dress and acting out a real life because something happened that caused you. This entire confusion about who you are and who you're going to be hard right so friends we come back we'll talk with wall higher about this is what happened is you yourself are struggling: 0.866348788 light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire by calling 8663 paradigm is Dr. Michael Brown.

I reaches certain standing in one of the most difficult areas to stand, ridiculed and mocked attack every angle and yet he knows the help is received in his life and wants to ensure that help with others and for years of appointed folks to his website to his book.

Some I'm holding my hands here a transgender's faith by wall tire will be putting some other of his books on the screen as he interacts with me, but I I get questions on a regular basis from folks who say what will I do the situations going on my household. A child is this year. This many years old and is convinced the transgender and there is a whole thing in their school pushing a certain direction.

What do how do I respond so Walt is been one of the key resources and a man whose live this out, because of which she produced website sex change and said our first segment that he'll stop when the need stops so Walt you are married with children executive in a company you realize that if you go ahead and get sex change surgery.

Things can change dramatically. Did you know how much you would lose before you started before you went through that.

Did you fully recognize how much you lose in the process.

Now I had no idea what was going to take place and you know I've been struggling with that purple dress Dr. for from such a young age, and yet you kinda want to get it resolved by the time I finally went to a gender therapist, Dr. Paul Walker in San Francisco.

He was the leading expert in the United States on diagnosing gendered is for your gender identity disorder and I was affluent enough, or I could go see him at his office on Union St. in San Francisco and I knew you know because he was the expert, he was going to give me the straight scoop night I went in there and met with them at 38 years old. 39 years old right in there and he said well year and I gave you my life story about being sexually abused being cross-dressed all those things happen and certainly I was engaged in cross-dressing from the time that that purple dress was on me until I went to see him so I was still engaging in these transvestite or transgender behaviors, and so he diagnosed me right away with gender dysphoria and he said the solution for you is hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery, but you need to wait two years go through the hormone therapy and and so that's exactly what I did I was. I was amazed at how quickly he came to the conclusion that I needed hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery, and today this is a common occurrence.

Yeah, I'm just looking at the bio of this Dr. Paul Walker.

When Walt says that he was the leading expert here just on Wikipedia is an American social psychologist and founding president of the HBI GDA the Harry Benjamin International gender dysphoria Association, now known as W path the world professional Association for transgender health in 1979 served as director of the Janus information facility and so on them both with all of his this background here so he he was a man who you couldn't pick someone better. He was my therapist right and so he been around enough that your case is presented itself is no-brainer. This is your gender dysphoria. This is the solution.

Yeah exactly and and again II think it's critical that I told him about end of the early childhood. The other issues being sexual, none of those things seem to impact them. He just said what you need hormones and gender reassignment surgery.

So I went through the hormone therapy and and and I in 1983 early 1983 after divorcing my wife in November 1982 I underwent gender reassignment surgery. I was an executive with a large automotive company and I notified them of what I done and they put all my things in a box marched me out to the gate and terminated me on my birthday and and so I was gone out, I was done within a very short period of time. I had been trying II was an executive I had a great job.

I tried jobs at BMW and many other corporations, they would not touch me because I gone through this procedure. I ended up homeless and broke living in a park in Long Beach, California, laying in a pile of vomit and so that is the consequences are so certainly there'd be many transgender activists analysis a. That's the whole problem that society rejected you. And if your family had affirmed you, or at least you can be discriminated against on the job or this was not a mark against you for other employment. Then you never would've been homeless in an find yourself in a pile of vomit. So that's the whole issue societal acceptance mode you said. I'm so glad you brought this because the truth is the real problem was Dr. Paul Walker, Dr. Paul Walker not identifying sexual abuse as a crime and is a reason to not give someone hormone therapy or put them through gender reassignment surgery. Sexual abuse causes people a great deal of difficulty of being cross-dressed by a grandmother being affirmed all those things are reasons to not give somebody hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery of not society. The real problem was Dr. Paul Walker. The real problem was this idea that you can actually change someone's gender which we know today is totally false.

No one is in the history of the world has ever changed a man into a woman or woman into a man. All you do is feminize a man or masking lies a woman they don't change genders.

So what were talking about actual identity, not of not perception I might perceive myself to be really fast and I can jump well and sing well and all that may be false.

It's just my own perception, what's one proceeds were timeout reality so biological sex. You're saying that that is not mutable or changeable, so we recognize that this phenomenon called intersex. We should be well under 1% of the population with is a biological or chromosomal abnormality was where someone may be appears to be male it and then begins to develop his female or has ambiguous ritual tools in a tell you. So that's that's an actual biological or chromosomal abnormality, and we recognize it as an abnormality just like God made the ice were seen, but some people are blind years for hearing but some people are deaf, so it it's a disability and we work with folks to help them in the midst of that but in terms of's changing from male to female. What kind of genetic markers. Do we have in our body know it's it's it's not. It goes beyond the physical organs there's much more that marks us as male and female, isn't there whether sick thing called inter-morphology.

It's really what comprises every part of your body and you can't alter that no matter what you do cosmetically to make up and look like a woman. Your morphology is still the same. In fact, I challenged Dr. Paul Walker and Dr. Biber who did the surgery to prove in the California Superior Court that they actually changed me into a female and they wrote a document which I was published in the daily signal and they had to admit that hormones and surgery do not change anything on you to female calls. It does is give you a mixed they use the word mixed where it stays male or your morphology is the same. So I looked at this when I saw this documented that they put in Superior Court. I realized you know I hate to use the word but it's a fraud. I mean they they prove really did surgical fraud right so we went when we think through the implications of this but we want to take some call so strong on hold. We want to get to some calls and and talk together as a family here with with Walters live this out and spent years researching, studying, interacting with people firsthand so we won't be as practical as as we possibly can. But Walt, the anti-is up now when you have say a bore that six years old and he sure that he's a girl and let's say no and Capote. No one could figure out what the trouble was, was an abused wasn't put in the address, whatever. Okay 96 years old is convinced he is a girl, you go see the local psychologist psychologists is okay he is gender dysphoria. So you need to start dressing as a girl referring to him as a girl giving you pronounced Nate new name send them to school. As a girl there when he gets maybe around what 910 years old. We need to give them hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty and then get him ready for sex change surgery is as soon as he's old enough that in your mind is nothing less than child abuse, correct absolutely child abuse and secure a young boy you know I think all young kids are curious about their gender may never looking at girls and boys in their wondering and in maybe they are with. They have a sister that's getting more attention than they are. If they're a boy so they think well if I'm a girl I'll get as much attention as my sister.

Many of these things play out in the household so but the fact of the matter is, no young person again knows the consequences of them talking about. I feel like a girl or I want to be a girl. I want to dress like a girl. A lot of this now is happening because of TV shows because of things the kids are saying and so I I actually feel like this is much more a social contagion than anything else is just sort of that whole thing where people of develop this idea where parents are proving them for this kind of procedures and they don't know what's gonna happen to them. Down the road and we won't know for 15 or 20 years yet. So even even hormone blockers. The potential of sterilizing kids for life. So maybe make a decision okay and I can go have assistance or to the Mr. laws themselves ready other procedures. They certainly will.

And no matter what they do, they will they will not actually become what they will become so we want to address that the issue of comorbidity of of other issues that can be at work in someone's life and if you say hey transgender surgery gender confirmation search is the best thing ever happened to me in my life is fulfilled and happy those arguing with your individual store this between you and God. Let's just say for sure.

We know that God has a Better Way, #1 set out to kill a lot of hurting so many stories to light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice aboard cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown joining us today on one. You have a question to find out more about what story and for help with those struggling with transgender related issues. Sex to find out about this wonderful new documentary that I had the honor of hosting the wall plays a major role with his testimony good in his you can watch for free.

There when I checked a few days ago was over 200,000 views ready in the first five days so check it out for yourself and his pastors, leaders host a screening at your church. You get a lot of free resources will this well, we won't get this out as far mortise we can absolutely free of let's go to the phones with Doddy in Las Vegas. Welcome to the line of fire.

Thank you Dr. Brown real pleasure to speak with you. I enjoy everything you're doing. And while thank you so much for your testimony, Mr. QII don't have a question for you Walt but I do think you and I just wanted to validate to the parents out there of children younger children, even adult children who are struggling with their sexual identity issue specially transgender them that abuse really does play a big a big role or can anyhow I my husband and I are parents of transgender adult daughter who we discovered when she was 22, three social media when she came out and she would call it on my iconic college billing and collecting more hiding than it is actually coming out. She came out of transgender came out and a prostitute working legally in another county nearby and also involved in the pornography industry and that was a dark day I will tell you June 8, 1920 17 22 years old. 25 now for three years. The better part of three years. We took a stand to stand with her for her in an frightening way because the tendency is to succumb to shame and guilt of being a Christian family, daughter and son were raised in the faith, and baptized in all that a lot of a lot of fear of what are people going to say what is that due to my ministry at the Christian Coalition like counselor at my church wanted to do for me.

I mean how does this really shine, Jesus, to our unsafe family members. It was terrifying. I am not a lion. My husband took it a different direction. It took him up a few minutes few months I should say to really come to the point that he could get past his pain and his shock and his grief but he did and so we were both able to stand with her in her in a loving way. I believe Christlike way where we could love her as she is where she is struggling just like Christ did for us and does for us, and yet still stand against the belief that she is a man and and so we stood in our faith and we stood fearlessly and yet terrified if that makes any kind of total sense. Okay a lot of travail on this end and private and I came across actually a lot of information to do with you all and also an excerpt from something Laura Perry had written in her book, transgender to transformed and things were resonating and I'm like wow I'm not the only person were not the only people going through this and I have Laura's book I went well and I marked it up like a textbook and have connected with her sentence, and so to see in his image out there.

I am thrilled. I'm utterly thrilled and I can't hardly wait to see it totally in its fullness and also to encourage my church to do a screening Doddy when when you watch the thing that will stir you the most in Laura's testimony.

So here was the young woman felt the only way to find wholeness and peace was as a man had a full vasectomy had a hysterectomy 10 years of living as a man found helpless in the Lord and now is regained.

Her identity is as Laura and her smile was this very beauty and genuineness very very moving story watch, but the role that her mom who was a legalistic Christian did not start where you are starting with that kind of attitude got how to transform her first and then she and the prayer group. These older women they'd afraid Laura into wholeness and the king and when she was at sea could see them all in the movie, you know it's it's quite dramatic, but when Laura hit her lowest is is one.

She found all these cards from this woman who'd been praying for for period of years, and it was her lifeline so Doddy we we want to call on on on our viewers and listeners to be part of your prayer team to pray for your daughters complete wholeness. Where is she out right now. Well like it better part of three years. We were in relationship we were doing things together. We were Marco Poling at the video chat app that we were doing when she was at the brothel, we would Marco Polo to each other and her 25th birthday this last February, she decided to estrange yourself from I believe that's because the testosterone that she is been injecting herself with sense I think November of last year was changing her voice and changing her her brain because the hormones really do have a huge effect and I think changing her personality. She could not. I think there's something in her that could not endure being around while she was doing that and I think that there was something about the way that we were shy signing such a strong light of love of Christ for her that she could not do it and continue to do it. In that light, I think really shown that systemic substance since Walt won't like to say to Dottie, well I think you know you talked. Originally when you started talking Doddy about dissections of abuse and what's interesting.

I think when you watch in his image. You will notice the four people in the movie were all sexually abused Laura and myself and and so these. This is such a great issue and people don't realize that when somebody sexually abused at some things happen to them and that's going to cause them to go through some kind of trial in an you're experiencing that with your daughter and we will certainly be praying for her to be redeemed and restored because it's certainly possible, and that is where my hope lies in outdoing your testimony even after all the gear and Laura's testimony even after all those years and all physical ways that you try to get that that whole still to get that wound covered to get tied it just it is though such a spring of hope for us through Christ we know God is not done yet yes yes and and Doddy as God called me someone with with no background in this never struggling with sexual issues instructed in terms of of homosexuality. In terms of gender questions but called in to help and to support and to be a voice so in the process of. I've got to meet and hear from many who transform and and I distinctly remember some calls where that that the lifeline was the prayers of the mother coming of homosexuality or something else in and they would call in so far the we we together is your family stand with Doddy and her husband on behalf of their daughter, their girl.

The little girl is up 25 and struggling Lord pour so much light and love upon her that she will come running to you for help or grace save her, set her free transformer may we hear the testimony in the days to come. Jesus name amen Doddy thank you for calling and friends join with Doddy and husband prayer you got you got an army. This computer) Walt, there are some of the calls I want to get to. But first, your own story. You divorced your wife. You're obviously alienated from your children lost her job. You've lost everything, hit rock bottom you live as woman for eight years. But aside from the outward things. The loss of everything you haven't found inward wholeness. Wow, how do you come to find wholeness and go back to being Walt what happened. What that that's a real journey and and that that wholeness. You know it's it's so funny about you if you watch each of us in the movie and his image will see that it was kind of a subtle encountered things took place over a period of time, but the turning point was kind of settled it in on my situation. It was just prayer and in in Stephen's story he was sitting on a couch next to somebody and Laura was looking at cards. I mean, you know we we think of these things. How does someone come to this point.

It takes a long time for me. I was actually deep in prayer and I had been struggling for many years. With this, but in that prayer and you can read about it in a transgender's faith where the Lord actually appeared to me during the prayer and he was there reaching out to me to redeem and restore my my life and and that's when my life changed so you know it's it's not as dramatic as you think, but it does take a long time to get there so I I had a lot of people. I mean, I went to church in Southern California and that was an interesting letter as a woman is a woman and signed into the book and all the ladies are gathered around me and I'm like this is great in the pastor's wife sit next to me and and the he got up and gave the sermon and that this is great and I believe in is Lori and my red high-heeled pumps thinking I'm get slick and cool and I get out there and have my coffee and donut at the table and going okay I'm in. This is good so that afternoon I looked out my front window of my little condo in here comes the pastor walking down the walkway and I'm thinking this guy Skinner welcome is going to hug me said how great it is to have me in the church. He knocked on the door and opened the door up. He stepped in and said we don't want your kind in our church and I laugh. I literally laughed and I looked at him and I said oh okay what kind do you want I Walt does have some count life-changing hear about it and get your calls to. It's the light a fire with your host activist, author, international and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the light of ironbound by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown going of someone identity with its called with homosexuality. There many cases. Most cases largely on related but to find out more about those who struggle. Maybe you yourself are contemplating fixturing surgery or hormones are apparent wondering what did you go to sex change six change and everyone watch the movie in his in his it's free. You want to watch it and share it with as many as you can.

So Walt, how do you finally get to the place of wholeness of the Lord and recover your identity is Walt not Laura yeah what you know this was through a different church I went to church.

I sat down with the pastor before I ever went to church on Sunday again because I didn't want that same thing to happen.and so I sat across from Pastor Jeff and I looked at him and said pastor Jeff, are you going to try to change me back to Walt when I come to your church and he he's a big guy and he rolled back in his chair and he says now he says I'm not going to try to change and that's God's job is as I know my job that's to love you so you know, so that process began.

I think right there with those kind words and I realize that I was in an encounter, not with Jeff or the church or anything else but the Lord Jesus Christ and II knew that I was going to focus on him.

I didn't know how long it was going to take but I was willing to commit my life to them and then spend time with him and that's when my life was transformed during that prayer. But most interesting is that what I have found is like in my life I was not homosexual I didn't have same-sex attraction. What I found is in working with the hundreds even thousands of people, mostly men that have been married adult men there suffering from things like words they've never people have never heard of like out again affiliate transvestite fetish disorders and and these are disorders that are such that you're not engaging in sexual relations with another person. Your self gratifying gratified by auto going to feel your transvestite fetish so you know, these are these are ideas where people think people used to send me books all the time how to get over homosexuality and I'm not homosexual. I I have had so few homosexual men contact me and asked for help there, all heterosexual men that had something happened and neither had body dysmorphia or they had dissociative disorders or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. They had some psychological, emotional or sexual disorder that was never properly addressed before they diagnosed him with gender dysphoria.

So these are the term used earlier comorbidities. We need to begin to address these comorbidities we could actually cease doing surgery and hormone therapy on many of these people and deal with their comorbidities instead of trying to change their genders which they will soon regret and that's why the suicide rates are so high because they're misdiagnosing these individuals right in and even after surgery even in environments that are transforming the suicide rates are dozens of times higher than the normal rate speak because the problems still remain in Walt I guess you had maybe a short period of time like this. Is it I'm home I found my way with that one way ha yeah I did. You know, especially right after I had the surgery.

I'm still in the hospital you feel like okay I finally made it. I got rid of the all of the things were happening that that voice in my head that was telling me that I was born wrong and now I'm I'm fixed right so you and I went through this and I got a good job working for the FDIC working for the federal government at work to the post I had good jobs but what happened was that I realized that you cannot change me into a woman and that began this process where I challenge the doctors and in the surgeon and in really, can you do this, and since then the people who write me and about having regretted doing this. One of the words that they use all the time as I realize that they did not change me.

God got it all right. Let's up. Let's go. The phones in Charlotte North Carolina. Stacy, thanks for calling the line of fire. Hi, I'm really thankful that you are addressing this topic, something that the church body need don't know how to address and Christian. We don't only operate in love because you don't understand what everyone is feeling and what their walking through the roof because it always usually every cause I find the commissioner something had happened. Usually promote client why there having some form of eating and I don't know how to address the net commission.

We are trained to help people. However, they identify the firm them. You always affirm, but there's not a lot of emphasis on addressing the root cause of why why the feeling that talking about or why it is identifying that way and a lot of picnic shelters, trauma, and you usually affiliated with that but we don't address that. Though I just think that it really great for people who want to know that there is hope in their greed eventually.

Usually, a company that an identity in hand. But we are not trained or taught to bring that therapy Stacy. This pressure against you bring it transgender. I just effectively.the DSM-V changed so the diagnostic and statistical manual so that you change definition similar gender identity disorder because it's not a disorder, and then you had transit activists pushed Kenneth Zucker out of a job. He was probably the foremost gender specialist and in Canada and and he often said the other success results in this was from a fundamentalist Christian viewpoint. He was just treating people where they were so there there is pressure. Think of this pressure on you is a trained clinician not to do what is best for your clients into a a a a political or cultural stance that is so unfair is so terribly unfair to you and to those that come to so God bless you with the Lord use you in Walt overview yeah you know this is my favorite subject because when I have someone to contact me. The very first thing I began to do is try to find out what happened that caused them to begin to behave this way and what I find is they just had something where there is, as I said before, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, something happened. As the clinician said something happened that caused them to engage in this behavior, and once I can help them identify what that was in 100% of the time and the people I work with. They can tell me what happened to them and when they find that out. They began to reflect on cheese. I never needed to do the surgery. This was a mistake and so that's a key element and we need to be focusing on the comorbidities and what happened that caused them to not want to be who they are. You and Stacy when you're able watch in his image. Again, it's in his ensure us and let us know what you think of it, or should a note over to the wall to his website's exchange in his love to hear your thoughts on Stacy and may God bless you what, I'm just looking it up post that was put up on Facebook. We have a daughter who recently went her way to remove her precious breasts. My wife is devastated background, her biological dad was a drug addict. It goes on. It just painful painful stories know exactly, you may say I'm trans that's not my story well. It is the story of plenty others. It is a story plenty others and are you saying we should help them.

We can speak to them and is anyone arguing that it's better to put a child through hormone blockers, then sex change surgery that hormones for the rest of life that's better than trying to help them from the inside out without body mutilation hormones for life. All there's a call from Seattle Siobhan, I apologize for not being able bring on the your time is short. But what about the pronoun question Walt do do we comply if if I know someone 20 years and now John says he's Jane. So I call him Jane Joy call him. She what's the best with your browser yeah everybody's going to deal with this when in their own way. I had a friend Bill who I worked with for over 30 years.

Bill was my closest friend I changed to Laura and I went to Bill and I said hey Bill, you gotta start calling me by my female pronouns. You gotta call me Laura and you know this is way it's gotta be and Bill looked at many says okay he says I got it. I'm just going to call you wacko and so what was really kind of funny to me because I laughed at it and to this day, even after ID transition. Bill calls me wacko so I think we get way caught up in these pronouns and they they become much too big of an issue and III have found that you can actually talk to somebody for a long period of time like I have with you. You don't have to use pronouns. You know the only time user pronoun is when the person is in in front you're talking about. I talked to her the other day, something like that when you're facing somebody you don't really use pronouns right and again Siobhan.

Everyone can work this out differently. The key thing is to merge love and truth together. If you can merge love and truth together, you'll help everyone that you're dealing with again friends go to sex change especially for struggling support the work that wall tire is doing.

Check out some of his books and holding front of you. Transgender's faith and then watch in his and share it with everyone you can.

Walt, you got a great legacy waiting for you just turned 80 years old. I believe you see a lot of encouraging news in the years you have ahead of you, and then forever these people. Thank you.I appreciate you not

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